Running scared: Starmer ‘cancels’ PMQs to avoid Mandelson scrutiny

0:02The Telegraph.

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1:07Has Keir Starmer cancelled next week's Prime Minister's Questions in a bid to avoid scrutiny for his appointment of the notorious Peter Mandelson?

1:17Camilla: We unpacked today's exchange between the PM and Kemi Badenow, which saw Starmer admit he'd lobbied for a plum job for his disgraced former comms chief, Matthew Doyle. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Tim Stanley. And me, Camilla Tominy.

1:41Camilla: Tim Stanley, we're getting on to PMQs in just a minute. You've just hot-footed it back from Parliament. But what a week to be going on the road next week. We are on the road, starting on Monday in London, where we are going to have a special sort of question time non-trademark special. Yes. Where we are going to be joined by Zia Yusuf of Reform. Yes. James Cleverley of the Tories. And Rachel Reeves' right-hand man from Labour, James Murray. Exciting. Should be a good ding-dong. Are you going to be Fiona Bruce? And I'm going to be David Dimbleby. Why have you swapped the genders? Just because it's funny.

2:20For the hell of it.

2:21Camilla: Just because it's funny. Just imagine their faces if we did that and didn't explain it. What, you dressed up? I'm just in a dress. We can do that. You can self-identify as Fiona Bruce if you want, and I will be here to support it because you are my close colleague and friend. On the Tuesday, we're going to be in Cardiff, and that day is going to be exciting because that's when Morgan McSweeney is appearing before the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. So it'll be Emily Thornberry Part 2. And then on the next day, the Wednesday, we're going to be in Warwick with Jacob Rees-Mogg. And then on Thursday, we're going to be in the seaside town of Worthing, where we're going to be doing a royal special.

3:00Camilla: Yes, we're wearing crowns with Lady Colin Campbell and Phil Dampier, both purveyors of royal gossip. So that's that. Let's get on to affairs of state and PMQs. Now, this might be the last PMQs we discuss for a while, Tim, because controversially, what's going on in the background here? What's happening? It is widely believed that the Prime Minister is going to prorogue, that is, suspend Parliament next Tuesday. Don't worry, he's not panicked and called it a military coup. No. This is perfectly normal. We have local elections coming up. Parliament's going to go on break. It will return like James Bond.

3:40It'll be back in Octopussy. Don't worry.

3:42Camilla: Or like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yep. Very good. The issue is the date on which it happens. Now, if Parliament rises on Tuesday next week, which is what it is widely believed they're going to do, then that means there'll be no Prime Minister's questions on the Wednesday. Why would the government want that? Because it doesn't want people heading into the break and going off campaigning in local elections. with the last PMQs being all about Peter Mandelson again. This is a bit dodgy, isn't it? I mean, that's a long time to prorogue before the local elections, from the Tuesday to the Thursday the 7th.

4:23Camilla: And this was the party that, in opposition, and particularly Keir Starmer sort of led the charge against Boris Johnson for the prorogation to get the Brexit deal through. As you mentioned, more things will have come out about Mandelson by then, because Emily Thornberry at the Foreign Affairs Committee, it's turning into the Watergate hearings of our time. Yes. Right? She will be interrogating Kat Little tomorrow, who is the permanent secretary. So that's on Thursday. And then, as you said, Morgan McSweeney on the Tuesday. Yes, so there'll be no chance for Badenock to scrutinise... To pick up on whatever's come out of that.

5:00McSweeney's evidence. Right.

5:01Camilla: If Parliament is prorogued. We're going to get a decision on it tomorrow at Business Questions, but it looks likely that this may have been the final PMQs for some time. Yes. And who knows what we'll have, who knows who will be at the dispatch box for Labour by the time we get back after the elections. Indeed. Could this be Keir Starmer's last Prime Minister's questions ever? Would he be happy with it, Tim? I think he went out on a bit of a high. Did he? Yeah, because it was going to be a bloodbath, we thought. And actually, I felt he came out fighting today. What was his general mood and demeanour?

5:33Camilla: It was a bit muted when he came into the chamber, right? Well, he always comes in and has a laugh. Does he? Yeah. A fake kind of like... Well, you don't really see this because everyone tunes in at 12. He arrives a minute early. And of course, when he walks in, everyone goes... And he always finds this hilarious... Does he? He always has a good laugh, him and Rachel, about it. And then he puts on the deadly serious face. But he's a man who finds cracker jokes funny, isn't he? I don't know. It just sort of speaks to he finds Parliament itself absurd, I think. Right. I suspect. He's never been comfortable with his culture.

6:07Well, he's above it, isn't he? He's above Parliament, let's be honest. But Keir Starmer has figured out a line. And the line is, so when Kemi Beidnock said to him, was due process followed? He replied, if you had listened to Sir Ollie Robbins and his testimony, he said that process was followed. There was vetting of Peter Mandelson. The issue is that what was discovered was not passed on to the prime minister. Therefore, as far as the PM is concerned, he's in the clear. Process happened. The issue is I wasn't told what the result was. And the person who didn't tell me who bears responsibility for that is Ollie Robbins.

6:53And that's why he had to go.

6:55Camilla: Yeah, it's an interesting defence that. I mean, he had a few stumbles, but he seemed very confident in the idea that Ollie Robbins' evidence, rather than driving a coach and horses through his defence, had corroborated it. But we discussed this, didn't we, Tim? And Badenock is going with the line, regardless of what you interpret from Ollie Robbins' performance, how on earth can you insist due process was followed if, as is alleged, your former chief of staff said to the former head of the Foreign Office, just get it effing done when it came to Peter Mandelson's appointment. Yesterday, Sir Ollie Robbins said that the focus was on getting Mandelson out to Washington quickly.

7:39He said the prime minister's team showed a dismissive attitude to vetting. And they even argued Peter Mandelson didn't need any vetting at all. This clearly wasn't proper process. Why was due process not followed? Mr Speaker, let me deal with this directly, particularly this question of pressure in relation to the decision to appoint and to put into post Peter Mandelson. Sir Ollie Robbins could not have been clearer in his evidence yesterday. He said this, I didn't feel under pressure personally in terms of my judgment. His words. Mr Speaker, he went on to say, he went on to say, I have complete confidence that recommendations to me and the discussions we had and the decision we made were rigorously independent of any pressure.

8:34Mr Speaker, on top of that, he was asked if any conversations led him to believe that Mandelson needed to take up the role regardless of vetting outcome. He said, I can say with certainty it was never put to me in that way. No pressure existed whatsoever in relation to this case. What is unacceptable is that the recommendation of UKSV was not given to me before Mandelson took up his post. Now, some people came out of that and said, why did Kemi ask all six questions, essentially the same, about the process?

9:13Camilla: Yes. Why didn't she, say, have three questions about Mandelson and then three questions about the cost of living? Well, that's a tactical issue which the Conservative Party has to answer for. But for those who say her questions were very much in the weeds, that she's trying to catch him out on a technicality, rather than go for, you are a busted flush, you appointed a friend of a pedophile, why don't you just go, you have no judgment. I think the explanation for that is this. The Tories only have one way of getting rid of Keir Starmer. They're not going to get him out in a confidence vote. They're not going to do that because Labour MPs, they're not going to be like turkeys voting for Christmas, right?

9:54They're not going to do that. The only way they can get him out is to somehow persuade him that he needs to go. And the path they're taking is on this question of has he misled Parliament? They're trying to push and push and push him into a corner where eventually he can't deny that he has said something inaccurate. And then, by his own standards set out when he was leader of the opposition, he then has to go. And this is the first time that Kemi Baden-Ock from the dispatch box said, you need to resign. He knows he did not follow due process, yet he told the House he had. Mr Speaker, I cannot accuse the Prime Minister of deliberately misleading the House.

10:37But everyone can see what has happened here. This was not due process. Everyone knows the price of misleading the House. Will the Prime Minister finally take responsibility and go? Her comments were echoed as well by Ellie Chowns of the Green Party.

10:58Camilla: Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister appointed Mandelson in a desperate and doomed attempt to pander to Donald Trump, despite knowing about his friendship with the paedophile Epstein and his links to foreign states. The Prime Minister resisted and then took a dismissive and extraordinarily incurious attitude to vetting compromising national security. And now he's thrown a civil servant under the bus to save his own skin. All this from a Prime Minister who pledged to restore trust and integrity in government, but who's repeatedly betrayed the trust of voters and let the country down. Does the Prime Minister not recognise that the best thing he can do to restore trust and integrity is to take true responsibility and resign?

11:45Camilla: I thought the simple point Kemi Badenok made about the Prime Minister failing to follow the advice of the then-Permanent Secretary Simon Case back in November 2024 saying very clearly to the Prime Minister, do not appoint Peter Mandelson before you've done the vetting is the kind of information that can cut through to the public. I agree with you that members of the public outside of the Westminster bubble are not kind of pouring through the he said, she said, Prime Minister said this, Olly Robbins said that, minutiae, like we are, because we're nerds. OK, but that general thing, the question must surely always come back to the simple premise of why on earth did you appoint such a controversial figure whose associations were well known against the warning of the top civil servant of the era who said, absolutely, don't do it this way round?

12:41Camilla: In that case, she has got him on not following due process. She has, but I'm not sure many voters will follow her that far through this labyrinth to get there. It's too complicated. And I think there's an alternative path, which I would have taken if people had made me leader of the Tory party. Which is to say this is not about misleading Parliament so much as it's about misleading the Labour Party. Now, when we had Maurice Glassman on, for instance, there was a voice from the right of the party saying, never like Mandelson. And there have been dozens of people on the left of the party saying, never like Mandelson.

13:17I think what I would be doing is emphasizing that, to keep bringing it back to the question of New Labour, Peter Mandelson, and why you backbenchers are still lending your support to this man who fundamentally doesn't agree, share your philosophy.

13:34Camilla: Yes. Doesn't like the historical Labour Party. Yes. And has brought back all these people who you just hate. I think if I was thinking about in the future what's likely to lead to a leadership election within Labour, I'd be emphasising that. Now some have begun to press that nerve because Ben Abisjecti, a Tory MP, asked this question. We know that the Prime Minister has been playing fast and loose with the ministerial appointments in his chumocracy, so I want to ask him about the first one. Mr Speaker, they boos mean nothing to me, Mr Speaker. I've seen what makes them cheer. Yes. Jonathan Powell was appointed as the Prime Minister's Special Envoy to the British Indian Ocean Territories on the 6th of September.

14:17But throughout August, he held meetings with FCDO officials and was given access to classified information, including a meeting minute between the Prime Minister and the then Foreign Secretary sat next to him on the front bench today. So my question is very simple. When was Jonathan Powell appointed as the Prime Minister's Special Envoy to the British Indian Ocean Territory? And what security clearance did he have upon that appointment? Let me say that Jonathan Powell is doing an excellent job for this government. He is respected across the world and playing a significant part in dealing with the huge challenges that we face.

14:50He is on the mark there. People have pointed out, compare and contrast the handling of Peter Manelson with the handling of Louise Haig, former transport secretary.

15:02Camilla: Who had a problem with her phone. Who turned out some time ago had misreported the theft of a phone, yada, yada, yada, who cares? Strange that. There seems to be a theme there, but carry on. Right. But the point is, she was a soft left female minister who didn't click with the prime minister. And the prime minister, in a fit of moral perfection, said, you gotta go. Compare that to the many ways in which they bent over backwards to secure the appointment of Peter Mandelson, of whom we knew so much already, including, as Kami Beidnok pointed out, his links to businesses associated with the Kremlin.

15:42The due diligence document said Mandelson remained on the board of the Kremlin-linked defence company Systema long after Putin's first invasion of Ukraine in 2014. The Prime Minister told us on Monday that he'd read that due diligence report. Why did the Prime Minister want to make a man with links to the Kremlin our ambassador in Washington? And this brings us up to another spectre at the feast, which is Matthew Doyle.

16:15Camilla: Yes, Kemi Badenock did refer to this idea that Downing Street, and by implication the Prime Minister, agitated Ford Doyle, who is the former head of Downing Street Communications, to get some plum ambassadorial role. However, I actually think Ed Davey, when he followed up on the Doyle point, was more successful than Badenock because he also forced the Prime Minister to admit that that had been his personal preference, not just a number 10 thing. Mr Speaker, I'm sure many of us in this house were shocked by the new revelations from Ollie Robbins yesterday. He said number 10 told him to find a plum job for Matthew Doyle, another Labour crony friends with a convicted sex offender.

17:02Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister was asked on Monday whether Number 10 had proposed any political appointments other than Mandelson. Perhaps the last few hours have jogged his memory. Will he confirm today, did he know his office was lobbying for a diplomatic job for Matthew Doyle and were they doing it on his authority? Mr Speaker, as I said earlier, Matthew Doyle worked for many years in public service, for me as Prime Minister and other ministers. When people leave roles in any organisation, there are very often conversations about other roles they may want to apply for. In this case, nothing came of it.

17:47Mr Speaker, the House and the public watching will note the Prime Minister failed to answer my questions. The Labour line on this is, and I like it because it sounds like they're channeling their inner trade union representative, that whenever someone loses a job or moves on from a job, there is a conversation about where they might go next. So the PM is framing this as essentially, he asked, we said no, or it was vaguely discussed, it went nowhere. But that's perfectly normal.

18:22Camilla: Yes, and to be fair, that's a strange line to take when Doyle himself responded to Ollie Robinson's claims yesterday by saying he wasn't aware of any lobbying on his behalf. So that rather contradicts this idea that he was the one pushing for a plum drop. No, it seems as if the Prime Minister wanted a plum job for his own close mate. It's a non-denial denial, but either way, even if you want to be, and I think one should be charitable, both to Doyle and the government, He left his job, asked are there any others. The government said, well, think about it, but no. So you could say no story here, except that this is eerily similar to the Peter Mandelson story.

19:02Camilla: Yes. And also, I'm sorry... Another person who, at some point in his life, had an association with a paedophile. And to be fair, we must emphasise this, he was friends with this person while he was accused, but not after his conviction. I mean, you might want to argue, Tim, that to promote one close friend of a paedophile to an ambassadorial role is unfortunate. To try and promote two is downright careless. Yes. And indeed, possibly even a little incompetent. And of course, I just want to stress, it didn't actually happen. No, I know. But in the eyes of the public, it's about charmocracy. It's about this is an administration which claims it's egalitarian, which claims that it's just all about ordinary people.

19:44and it's trying to break down the old boys' network and 14 years, etc, etc.

19:48Camilla: Well, it's a government of service, Tim. It's a government of service. This is a government in the service of the people and absolutely not one in the service of the Prime Minister and his own people. Absolutely not. No, but when these stories add up, it looks like a government of friends. Yes. It looks like the sofa government of the Blair years, funny enough. But why is that? It's because Peter Mandelson is constantly choosing the chint. I think it's partly because of the absence of philosophy. Yes. This happened a little bit under Cameron too, who was notorious for promoting friends and especially people he'd been to school with.

20:27Yes. But I think you do that when everything is about personal connections because what you're not bound together by is a sense of mission or ideology. When a party is motivated by ideology, You can take people from anywhere to be in that party so long as they share that ideology. That's when you get genuine meritocracy within politics. I don't care where you've come from. You agree with me. We're on the same page. We're going to fight and make this happen. When you have no idea what you want to do in government, you've no sense of why you get up in the morning, how do you choose who to hire?

20:59Camilla: Yes. You choose friends of friends and people who you get on with personally. Well, also, people who might be complicit, despite their own reservations, You have to have some loyalty there because let's just move to your point about should Badenock have made this about the more macro issue of the prime minister just being woeful. And this is what we're going to move on in the next part of the podcast to talk about a kind of bubbling up of, I don't know, circumspection around the prime minister's choices and his future within the cabinet and on the back benches. But I think the central point here is that for not just weeks, but months now, pretty much everyone in Labour circles is having conversations around just how unfit Keir Starmer is proving to be Prime Minister.

21:48Camilla: It's the question of judgment. And my point is that for the left of the parliamentary Labour Party, the lack of a philosophy is an element of that. So the appointment of Mandelson, you could have gone with a career diplomat. There was a perfectly good one in place you could have stuck with. They chose to make a political appointment. But what were the politics of the person they chose? Someone on the right of the party, but who was also expressly picked in order to suck up to Donald Trump. Yes. That's the only reason people were actually saying he's really good at flattery. Yes. Well, to be fair, they were saying he was a negotiator and he was a player.

22:22Camilla: And therefore, if we did have to do trade negotiations with the threat of tariffs looming over the UK. I'm sorry, but for the few weeks he was in the job. I'm not justifying it, but that was the explanation. For the few weeks he was in the job, Peter Mandelson gave no impression that he was going toe-to-toe with Donald Trump and putting him in his place. He gave the impression that he was getting on with him by saying everything he wanted to hear, which is how Peter Mandelson has advanced throughout his life. Yes. And at the time, many media commentators were saying, what a clever thing to do.

22:49But it doesn't look so clever in retrospect after Greenland and Iran. No. Now you're starting to think, OK, if he was going to make a political appointment, perhaps you should have chosen someone. of some substance who might have said to Donald Trump, you're wrong about some things.

23:05Camilla: Well, ironically, we interviewed somebody last week, Hannah Furness and I, Robert Hardman, who's just written another book about the Queen, formerly of this parish. He seems to have been more instrumental in questioning Donald Trump when he had lunch with him for his book, in saying, is it really a good idea to invade Greenland? And by the way, that whole Canada 51st state plan, it might really annoy the king. And Trump turned around to him and said, oh, that's a very good point, Robert. But thank you for giving me that tip. You know, do we know if Mandelson had such conversations? Who knows? Yeah.

23:37Camilla: Shall we move on next to some quite good goss from our political editor, Tony Diver and others, about what the Cabinet is really thinking, along with Labour MPs?

24:17We'll see you next time. Sheet Insight. What a life. Do right by yourself and your business and search Xero for your free trial. Conditions apply. Fill her home with beauty this Mother's Day. Take 20 % off a Pura Smart Home Fragrance Diffuser for a limited time. The perfect gift for every kind of mom or mother figure. Shop now at Pura.com.

24:49Camilla: Tim, every cabinet has a safe pair of hands. And in Labour's case, that safe pair of hands is Pat McFadden. Now, Pat, who has been involved in Labour politics for so long... Centuries. Could be. Eons. And he looks like someone hired a cottage in the countryside, found an old, old book under the floorboards, read from it in Sumerian, and he arose from the grave to serve in the Labour cabinet. Alternatively, he could be running the post office in Balamore. But the point is this... Lovely man, by the way. Lovely man. Genuinely very nice. I like him. Softly spoken Scotsman. Always enjoy having him on the GB News show.

25:32Camilla: Said to me at Labour, like doing your show. It's good to have some bants. So we admire him from that. He likes to take on the fight. And that probably explains why he was chosen to go on the broadcast round this morning following Ollie Robbins' testimony. However, shall we just listen to him having a chat with Sophie Ridge on Sky News? Ollie Robbins claimed that Number 10 pushed for an ambassadorship for Matthew Doyle, former Director of Communications, now suspended Labour peer. Is that true? It's the first I'd heard of it yesterday. I don't know what conversations took place between Number 10 and the Foreign Office about that, But it didn't come to anything, and I don't think Matthew had the experience to become an ambassador.

26:19So I don't know what... You know, if he was about to leave number 10, what conversations were taking place? I mean, you know you're doing the interview today. You must have asked them. Did it happen? Well, I don't know. Because the implication is that it was Keir Starmer, right, that he asked, he was like, right, let's get this guy a nice poster. Look, it's not unusual if someone's leaving to say, what do you want to do next? quite what he was asked, what he wanted to do next. I don't know. I'm really sorry. Normally, I'm quite forgiving when people say, I don't know. In this situation, when it was this time, well, yesterday morning, you must have asked the question.

26:58Or if you didn't ask the question, it's because you wanted to come in here and say, I'm really sorry, I don't know. I don't accept that. I always try to prepare. So what did you do? Did you ask number 10 what happened? The important point for me is... No, sorry, this is an important point for me. Did you ask number 10 what happened?

27:13Camilla: So I'm told no appointment was made. That's the right decision. We know no appointment was made. Did you ask number 10 if it is true that Keir Starmer asked for an ambassadorship by Matthew Doyle? Did you ask the question? I don't think he would have been right for such a post. I think it's right that no appointment was made. I don't know what conversations were held with Matthew. Did you ask the question? What question? Did you ask number 10 if it's true Keir Starmer asked for an ambassadorship for Matthew Doyle? Did you ask that question? I don't think Keir Starmer would have asked for this.

27:47I don't know what conversation... Did you ask the question? It's a really simple... You know the answer to that question. Did you ask the question number 10? I have not asked if Keir Starmer asked this. OK. And why did you not ask that? Because you wanted to come on here and say you didn't know anything about it? No, because I don't think the Prime Minister would be in the position of picking up a phone on a personnel matter like that.

28:06Camilla: It's difficult for McFadden, isn't it? To be fair, he has links to Mandelson because he has links to Blair and Brown. But at the same time, to have him now be put in a very uncomfortable position because of the lack of judgment the Prime Minister has displayed. Well, and for it to start to give the impression that McFadden has no judgment. Exactly. Because what Sophie's suggesting there is you should have asked. Yeah, why didn't any of you ask? And so either he didn't ask and so he can't just straightforwardly say I didn't ask because he's embarrassed by it or he did ask and he got a non-answer or something.

28:41So therefore can't drop the government in it by saying what he was told.

28:45Camilla: Yes. Either way, it makes him look bad as well as the government. And let's also reflect on Ed Miliband. We discussed this briefly yesterday, but there's a moment when Ed Miliband is speaking to Good Morning Britain. I think it's Susanna Reid, where he is doing a quick calculation about whether he wants to expend whatever political capital he has left. Yeah, you can see the cogs turning. Defending the indefensible. And that's why he cannot bring himself to say that he supports all of the Prime Minister's decision-making on Mandelson. Well, you know, look, it was a very risky appointment and it turns out to have been extremely risky for all the reasons that we now know.

29:28Camilla: If I'm watching you, I'm not sure what else anyone needed to tell the person at the top of government about this individual that would have made it clear it wasn't just risky, it was wrong. What else did you need to know at that moment? Look, it's a fair point. I mean, look, it's a fair point and he shouldn't have been appointed. And, you know, that is right. By the way, the Telegraph is quoting somebody saying that Miliband is spineless for failing to support Starmer. Right. In that way, but fair enough. Yvette Cooper, now she had to cut short a foreign trip to get back to Parliament. She's not happy either.

30:14No, she's not. She told Parliament that she was concerned yesterday at the idea that they wanted Matthew Doyle to get an ambassadorship without telling the Foreign Secretary.

30:23Camilla: She means lammy, but I suppose it reflects equally badly in general on the idea that cabinet ministers can just be shut out of decision making, even when it involves appointments to their own department. Yeah, and of course it reflects poorly upon the diplomatic service as well, if they were even considering it, just dropping in a chum into that kind of job. The FT had a write-up yesterday suggesting that it was a case of people keeping their heads down at Cabinet. People were looking at the desk and the PM was met in virtual silence. Sounds like one of our editorial meetings as I storm about the place, giving orders.

31:00Camilla: Angela Rayner, what's she been up to, Tim? Your ginger favourite. Does she come above Emily Thornberry in the boy crushes on Labour MPs or slightly below? Can you confirm? Because I know you're fond of them both. Yes, but I think Raina's more likely to become Prime Minister someday, tragically. So you're induced by, you're encouraged. Obviously, you know. You're attracted by her power comparatively. Yeah, 90 % of the crush is about power, of course. Right, of course. She's told you so much about Tim Stanley, doesn't it? There you are. I just want her to be in charge of me. She spoke at something called the Good Growth Foundation.

31:34Interesting speech, good speech. She said there are more important questions out there other than Robbins, of course. but called on the government to go further to help people. Now, it's one of those speeches where she just repeated good stuff the government's doing. So technically, it was a pro-government speech. But there was such a lot in there about how people are struggling and have been let down. Nearly two years into the administration, shouldn't we be doing a Trump and saying it's all going amazingly well? So I think there was a subtle nod there to people listening to say, I know we're not moving fast enough and I know that people are angry with us.

32:13Camilla: Yes. I must say that an organisation in the UK called the Good Growth Foundation may be a breach of the trade description. There is an irony in all of this, as much as I do admire Angela Rayner and believe she is, if anything, overqualified to be prime minister of this country, that here she in the speech is calling for faster, bigger growth. but she is responsible for, for instance, the renters' rights legislation, which is about to come into effect. And the employment rights bill, which businesses say is stifling growth. Yes, and I'm sure we will discuss both at some point because we really must.

32:46Because while the Mandelson story is humiliating, embarrassing, and makes us question the Prime Minister's judgment, Labour is quietly getting on with revolutionising aspects of how this country's economy works.

32:58Camilla: Revolutionising or ruining? A moot point. Our political editor, Tony Diver, he's well-named, isn't he? Because he has been doing a deep dive. And he's found, he's got some great stuff in today's paper. Now, get this, I love this. I love this quote. An MP told Diver that Sakhir was now a, quote, dead man walking and could be challenged for the party leadership. Quotes, how long can this zombie administration continue, they said. It's over for him. He can't come back from this. Someone needs to put an arm around him and say, it's over. Some MPs have been speaking out publicly, including Imran Hussain, the Labour MP for Bradford East, who said that a culture created by Keir Starmer had divided his party.

33:45Now, Imran Hussain, an MP, I always enjoy his contributions. He shouts them as if he's unaware that there is a microphone available. And so it's at the heart of this is a toxic and dismissive culture. at number 10.

33:59Camilla: Ian Byrne, the Labour MP for Liverpool West Derby, said Mandelson's appointment, quotes, reflects a wider direction under the Prime Minister and said a toxic culture had been allowed to, quotes, take hold of number 10 and the governing of our country. And we've also heard in the last hour on GB News from a Labour MP called Jonathan Brash. Never heard of him. Is that a real name? Jonathan Brash? What did he say? Well, he said that the Prime Minister should resign. Yeah, I mean, I've got to be clear, I am completely fed up to the back teeth of this psychodrama in Westminster. The own goals that are coming from the heart of this government.

34:39Meanwhile, we've got fantastic Labour councillors, canvassers, activists up and down the country working hard and delivering for their constituencies like mine in Hartlepool, facing local elections in the shadow of this absolute mess. They just need to get a grip. I'm completely fed up about it. And I think it's got to the point now where I genuinely think that, you know, as far as the Prime Minister is concerned, it's not a case of if, it's when. And I just think we need to get a handle on this because people out there are worried about their cost of living. They're worried about their NHS. They're worried about crime on their streets.

35:16And we're completely consumed by this scandal. And it's completely unacceptable. And as I'm sure you can tell, I'm quite angry about it. You're saying it's if, not when the Prime Minister should resign? Yeah, I mean, ultimately, we're in a situation now where I don't think anyone reasonably expects the Prime Minister to lead the party into the next election. It's a very this intake of Labour name. They're often called things like Bob Chop and Susan Lauder. Are they made up? They are made up. And the thing is, you find, because this is not our first time at the rodeo, is that coups against the Prime Minister, disgraces, scandals and falls, are always a way of learning who your local MP is.

35:55Yes. Well, who knows?

35:57Camilla: If more MPs go over the top, it'll be, as Boris Johnson once described it, as the herd moves. As the herd moves. And by the way, in more bad news, inflation. Do you know what the percentage rise to March is? No. What is it? It's to 3.3%. So that whole hope of we're going to get inflation down to 2 % has gone awry because of the Iran war. So says Rachel Reeves. Global headwinds. Nothing to do with me, Gov, in an echo of the Prime Minister's. Nothing to seek here. What could they do about the Iran war? Nothing. They should have just deposed it like you did so vehemently. Wouldn't have made any difference to petrol prices or energy costs.

36:41Camilla: But hey, they could have taken a moral stab. They would have felt a bit happier about themselves. So much more to come on this story. We'll be back tomorrow, 5pm.

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