The late Queen’s mistake that William and Kate will not repeat

0:09Welcome to The Royal Tea, the podcast serving up the very best royal insight from The Telegraph with me, Camilla Tominey. Me, Victoria Ward, the Deputy Royal Editor of The Telegraph. And me, India McTaggart, The Telegraph's Royal Correspondent.

0:31The second in line to the throne becomes a teenager this week. Prince George is 13 years old and while many, myself included, can remember the announcement of his birth outside the Lindo Wing back in 2013, George is now stepping into his teenage years and preparing to go to Eton College in September. It's a big moment for Prince George turning 13. I can't believe it's been 13 years. 13 years since that mad circus at the Lindo Wing. I know and I was part of that circus as I was eight months pregnant in India. Can you even imagine me? I was enormous. And it was sweltering wasn't it? It was so hot.

1:08It was one of those, it was the weather conditions where any makeup that went on and let's be honest, you know like when you're just powder, I was doing TV and written press and I was putting powder on it, it was just melting off. I looked giant. There were some photographs of me of Robert, Robert Jobson. we look like you won't remember this you might be old enough in the russ abbott show bella emberg and others did that thing where they were like bouncy balls like i literally love jobs and is that what you're saying i think rob will admit that sometimes he has appeared festively plump including on this podcast and both of us we looked like we were like those cartoons at the seaside basically anyway so he was born on july the 22nd 2013 at 4 24 p.m in the lingo wing ofst mary's hospital which is where william and harry were born weighing eight pounds six ounces it was called the great kate weight yes don't we remember it we were getting down there well early do you remember we were trying to get down there two weeks before and it was like oh the thing was they never said when the due date was so they just said mid july that's so it caused this whole frenetic panic because it could have been two or three weeks early so that's why i think it ended up being kind of like a month long the international media camped outside because no one quite knew when he was coming so so yeah so it started at the beginning of july and trailed all the way through but it didn't we didn't need to get there too early because they did say oh she's gone into labor and we all went okay great we'll get down to the hospital then on the day he was born yeah yeah we were like all right fine and um i remember of course her being the picture of i mean just absolutely class as she emerged in that lovely cornflower blue dress with the spots on absolutely extraordinary just perfectly yeah she has been delivered of you've got the original announcement there Vic especially for this moment I looked it up so she went into the hospital at just before 6am around 6am right morning and then they announced at half past seven that she'd been admitted and she's in the early stages of labour and then we had to wait until 8 31 in the evening they sent this email the Duchess of Cambridge has been delivered of her son yes and that was the formal announcement so yeah at 4.24pm did she stay in a night and then come out I'm trying to remember yes she did and this says yes the Duke of Cambridge was present for the birth Her Royal Highness and her child are both doing well and will remain in hospital overnight so then it was the following day and I remember that Marcus Settel because I went on to interview him lovely man absolutely lovely man he delivered the baby along with somebody else yes and it says on these in these notes from Kensington Palace, Guy Thorpe Beeston, obstetrician.

3:42Wonderful. So there we go. So remember that. And now he's 13 and we saw him recently, didn't we? Because he was at Wimbledon towering over, well, nearly towering over his mother. And you were there. You were in centre court. Get paid to do these jobs, do you? I know. It's quite amazing. He basically went to the whole of Wimbledon just because a couple of royals arrived. The whole two weeks. Yeah. I was doing other stories as well. Of course you were. But we did have a lot of royal content over the two weeks. and that was a particularly exciting day obviously because she comes with the kids minus poor Louis who I do feel sorry for but he's not able to go.

4:12It's hard to contain something like Louis. It's a long mansion it's very hot and actually because it's in the evening that final one it's in the sun the royal box the whole time so it's pretty warm but he was towering over his mother almost and it's funny he does have quite a shy presence but then in Hannah's piece today apparently behind the scenes he's not a shy. Sure so Hannah Fernandes who is on holiday this week but she's written a big piece on George at 13 and makes the point that actually a bit like his parents, he seems publicly quite introverted because Princess Charlotte seems to be the boss.

4:43The boss. Yes. I mean, are we being unfair with that? She does seem to be in control of those brothers. She does keep them in check, doesn't she? Very much Princess Anne in the making, right? But behind the scenes, what do we know about this lad? Well, you know, it's quite interesting because actually we know very little about George, don't we? And they drip feed these little details. Like when he was a baby, he liked helicopters or you think he likes sports or whatnot. But I thought what was really interesting was last year, William was at a, they were both at a WI engagement in Sunningdale and one of the women said to William, what's Louis like?

5:14Is he really a handful? And William said, well, yes, he is a bit of a handful, but he's a good boy. But actually behind closed doors, it's a different story for George and that actually he was kind of suggesting that he might not be as perfectly well behaved at home as he is in public. And I think William actually said he just knows how to behave because he's older. Which is quite telling. I mean, amazing. Quite interesting. Therefore, got it all sorted. He's the sort of royal front. Yes, he knows. He does appear very sort of held together and regal, if a bit shy. And I think, obviously, the walkabouts he'll get more used to.

5:47And still very much like I think, you know, Catherine kind of controls who they, you know, introducing them and making sure that they're comfortable. And I even actually felt quite bad with, because obviously we're there filming for the Rota and you have your mobile phone out. And at one point I was really quite close to them when they were speaking to Arthur Ferry. And they're not really very comfortable with all that yet. You can see they're too young, which makes sense. Thinking about it, it's almost unique, isn't it, in that the children are by association famous because of the fame of their parents.

6:17Because when you look at celebrities, they make a choice. The Beckhams have made a choice, for instance, and that's come back to bite them in the case of the estrangement with Brooklyn, to put their children front and centre. And the children have now embraced that. But in any other walk of showbiz life, the children are completely off limits. So then you have to think, how does it feel for him? How does it feel for him, do we think? Being 13, knowing he's a future king, knowing that his parents are going to take the throne and have an ever increasing significance on the global stage. I mean, I think they've tried their best to keep him grounded in that regard.

6:54but it can't be easy, can it, to kind of manage the public and private lives of your children like that. I think that's why they've made it their life the last 13 years. They've made family life has been the priority, hasn't it? And I think they've known, I suppose they've always known that he's eventually going to go to boarding school at 13. So they've got this relatively small window to shape this man, the future man, shape who he's going to become, give him these. William often talks about his mental toolkit, doesn't he? he's always dipping into his mental toolkit and I feel like they've tried to they want to give George and the others these tools to be able to take on this life of duty when they're a bit older feel confident enough to make decisions and free in how they live their lives and how they choose to approach that role and that requires a really strong steady grounding in family life but there's more immediacy here because if you look at the reign of the queen obviously she becomes queen at a very young age.

7:55But because of that, there's a degree of longevity to her reign, which effectively means that as heir to the throne, Prince Charles can take a step back and know he ends up being the longest-serving heir apparent in history. He knows that there's a long time before he's king, and crucially, he knows it's a long time before his eldest son is king. This is slightly different for William now, because William knows that there is a much more immediate chance of him becoming king just because of his father's advanced years we then could see a scenario where prince george is propelled into the role of heir to the throne while he's a teenager in his 20s i sorry i mean don't no disrespect to the king but i'm just talking generationally this is different gravy now because the prospect of george having to take on more responsibility is much more immediate than it ever was for william and i think that's then significant how you prepare a boy basically for having to step up really as a young man.

8:55I think that means that the approach needs to be slightly different. And we're going to talk in a minute about how they're trying to avoid some of the mistakes that the late Queen made, probably because she's a woman of her generation. But just on that point of like the pressure on George. On that point, I do think that they've approached it really well by sort of drip feeding him into certain things like VE Day or like the Platinum Jubilee. They gave him the choice to take part as a page of honour in the King's coronation, the passage, the engagements he does at Wimbledon. It's a very, they're sort of nursing him through it in a way.

9:25And I think it's very hands-on and very intentional. That's what they always say. Kensington Palace always said they're very intentional about how they introduce their children to these roles and the world stage in effect. And I think that that will pay off in the long run because probably that sort of slow introduction to the global stage will benefit him a lot. But it's a more Middleton upbringing than a Windsor one. Oh, very much. Because what they've done, the parents have said, we're going to prioritise immediate family over family firm. And that wasn't, I mean, it's reminiscent of George VI and the Queen Mother bringing up the princesses before the abdication.

10:04Exactly, so they didn't know she was going to be queen for a large part of her childhood, did they? So then the abdication changes everything because then suddenly Princess Elizabeth becomes the future queen and even Swinson Churchill observes in her, you know, the makings of a future monarch. But that Middletonesque approach, so hands-on, being on the parental WhatsApp groups at school. Sports matches, yes. Taking school holidays off, which they do, they block out whole school holidays to make sure they're with their children. no living staff you know well what's the deal with the staff then they have the long-term nanny yes who lives maria she lives nearby but not with them got it and then they have i think a house keeper that they've had for years an italian in fact i broke that story who was writing some about her cooking steaming bowls of pasta whatever um but but wasn't the intention when they moved to windsor they initially went into adelaide cottage because they didn't want the staff specifically What, because they don't think that the children should grow up like they're in Downton Abbey?

11:04They just wanted to have a normal, yes, I think exactly. They wanted to have a more normal family life and be a family unit where they could be, the children could run around and be free and they could all be free in their house. And the parents were taken a more hands-on role. So the children help with the cooking and they can do crafting and they can do, I'm sure they help with some bits and pieces of... What, they're emptying the dishwasher? I doubt they're emptying the dishwasher. Well, hang on. Do royals empty their own dishwashers? Discuss. I don't even... They do. What do the royals mean by hands-on?

11:30By hands-on, I mean, you know, I'm taking the children to school. I'm doing a school run. I'm then rushing. Then someone's forgotten a kit bag. Then I'm phoning another mum who doesn't work to say, can you please get the kit bag to school? Oh, my God, somebody hasn't got a packed lunch and they've got a school trip today. My head's imploding. Then I'm in the Daily Tea studio. Then I'm rushing back. Then somebody needs to be taken to cricket. I'm running administration. Somebody on a WhatsApp group is saying, have you seen my daughter's jumper? Yes. No, I haven't. I'm a bit busy here. I'm quite busy.

12:00That is what I call working motherhood. I'm fully on board with that. Yeah, we all understand that. You're not there yet, but that's the life you're going to need. Enjoy that. I'm in awe of you guys dealing with it. When they say you can have it all, what they mean is you can do it all. Just going to prepare you for that. That's chaos. But anyway, is the Princess of Wales doing that? I think to an extent, I would say. I don't think she's having to worry about rushing off to the school because George has forgotten his water bottle because probably someone else could do it. Yes. But I do think there's levels, isn't it?

12:30I think there's a level that they're doing which goes well beyond what any other royal parents before them have done. Even Diana? She loved a sports day. The boys used to be dressed and ready to be met at the door, ready to take them out. God, I'd love that. So it's not quite... Just imagine just being presented with your... And also they do that thing in the morning where it's like you don't have to go through the... Where are your shoes? Where's your PE kit? Where's your water bottle? It's the same routine every morning, kids. It's funny how children can't understand the basics of going to school.

13:06This is not a motherhood podcast. Just bring it back to the world. Okay, so there are hands-on in comparison. I mean, let's be honest. When the Queen was the Queen, she was away on tours for six months a year. This whole idea that Prince Charles felt a little bit neglected up in Gordonstone. I mean, do we think that William has been mindful of that and thought we're not having this kind of children brought up on the nursery floor. Without a doubt, of course. I mean, they've said as much many times, haven't they? And even with the choice of Eton for George, they've made a point of going and looking at all these different schools and making a decision for him rather than for the firm, whereas for Charles going to Gordonstone, it was where Philip had gone and therefore he thought it was the right thing when actually it was clearly not the right environment for Charles and the type of boy that he was.

13:53so I think they've thought about it about George as an individual which is very different and I do think they give him a lot of autonomy in making these decisions because they viewed so many schools with him as well even some in central London you know, not all boarding so I think they really do give him that freedom to be his own person and there's no saying that George or Charlotte well, Charlotte can't but that Louis, sorry, will go to Louis will follow Suits and go to Eton they might just choose the schools in accordance with the children and that's okay

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15:28You don't mind me saying this, but compared to India, we're just common as muck. Oh, I know. Look, we just basically bought up a cardboard box for middle-aged mothers. In the middle of the street, whereas McTaggart over here is like practically landed gentry. So you've got... Well, come on, you are. But, you know, you're obviously very posh by comparison to us two. And you went to a posh boarding school. Did go to boarding school. What school did you go to? Benenden. Oh, hello. A little bit royal, isn't it? Princess Anne's old school. Princess Anne did go. She was very, very fond of her time there.

15:59It's a great sort of all-rounder school. It's like not particularly academic. It's not like Wickham Abbey. It's also very sporty. It's like it produces, I think, quite a well-rounded. But give us an insight. It's just day school. Well, to be fair, I did go to an independent school. Did you? Were you state educated? I was a grammar school. Girls' grammar school. Oh, hello. Listen, Lou. States. The only state-educated girl in the room here. Love that. Okay. We're all very down with the kids at the Telegraph. India, what's it like then, boarding school? You must have some experience with Old Etonians.

16:28I don't mean that to sound exactly as it is. It does sound exactly right. But anyway, Old Etonians, what are they like? Is George going to be all right with this lot? Yes, I think he will be. They are quite specific. I mean, it's a very, we know the school, you know, its reputation kind of precedes it. We used to have socials with Etonians. Did you now? Yes. And we all kind of like started dating them when we were, you know, 18, 17, whatever. Yes. So we were quite involved with them. But they were all good guys. And I think it's a very specific kind of camaraderie that they have. I always say boarding school is the most formative experience of your young years.

17:09You know, if you do go down that route and if you know that your child suits it, it instills this sense of independence in you, this sort of tolerance of living with other people that's quite extraordinary. I mean, George will be living in his own room in the first year, which is very rare. I lived with seven other girls in the dorm room. And how did you see your parents? We only went home every three weeks, so they were quite strict. I think most schools now have relaxed that rule, but at the time it was very traditional and we only could go home on X-E-Out weekends. Yeah. This is going to be difficult for Kate, you know, like she's going to get massive empty nests now.

17:41But she's next door. And I think that has made all the difference. But surely the school will say, listen, he's not coming back more often than he has to, because they need to breed some resilience in him, right? They won't want him to have special rules either, so he'll do what the others do, I'm sure, don't you think? They won't want him to stand out and be treated differently. No, they won't. And I don't think he will, in a way. I think Eton is one, it's a safe choice for them, because I don't think people, other schoolmates will make a big deal of his position. It just kind of doesn't strike me as that it will be really abnormal there.

18:13I spoke recently to a parent at the prep school and they were like, they just muck in. It's completely just involved. They don't, there's no special arrangements. Yes, you can tell their security, but it's very subtly in the background. But be it a school play or a parent's evening or a fixture. They're always there. They're just there like normal parents. And to the client with the other parents, nothing's ever leaked. They've been able to trust them. Yes. Nothing ever comes out about anything. But can other boys be trusted? So Eton has got a very interesting social media policy. They don't allow the boys to have phones there at all.

18:45But this is the other aspect that we need to discuss. Unlike William and Harry, these children are going to be growing up in a social media era where they won't be worrying about the press and the paparazzi as much as ordinary punters. You know, George is out when he comes of age or even before, because apparently sometimes teenagers do drink underage. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, India. I'm sure you didn't because you were brought up at Brennenden. You never did that. but people snatching images of George, Charlotte and Louis out on the razz as teenagers, that's going to be very problematic for them to manage, isn't it?

19:23Yeah, it's a wild west out there, isn't it? I mean, no one can control it. Everybody's got a phone. And Prince Harry's talked a lot recently with all his litigation about the problems he's had growing up when he thought people were selling stories about him or hacking his phones or whatever. This is times a thousand of that, isn't it? Yes. There's going to be no privacy. But how do you police that, I wonder? I mean, we're going to get bodyguards. It has happened in the past, by the way. Bodyguards have gone up to people who have just stuck phones in faces and said, no, can you erase that? They must have thought about it.

19:53I'm sure they've got some kind of loose plan. But they'll want to be on social media. We know what kids are like. So what, is George going to have his own Instagram? I don't know if they'd be allowed to do that. My only comparison is actually Jacob Rees-Mogg, friend of this podcast, co-presenter. Obviously, because of the surname, There is a degree of high profile to the children. Mary, his daughter, she wanted to be on all this stuff, so she's on all this stuff. With all the privacy settings? Well, I don't know how... Jacob's quite open about it and says they need to be children, they need to be teenagers, they need to make their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

20:28But with respect to him, I agree. I think that's a good attitude, but Prince George is a different thing. Absolutely. And I can't imagine they're going to let George be on Instagram and Twitter and whatnot. I mean, maybe they'll allow him to have a private one with a very protective bubble. Very carefully orchestrated and managed to make sure that it's tight. You mentioned Harry there. One of the conclusions drawn by that trial was that he was actually invading his own privacy on social media at the time where people could find them at different night spots. You know, people are going to the same places over and over again.

20:58Well, lo and behold, you're going to find cameramen outside. And second of all, they were giving away, them and their friends were giving away a lot of information. before we knew about kind of privacy and safeguards on social sites. And that was part of the problem. So, of course, they're going to want to avoid those pitfalls. But, I mean, who knows? And nobody knows how they're going to manage it, do they? Because we haven't had this before. This is a first. And George is going to be one of the first high-profile, second in line to the throne, going through late teenage years, university potentially or whatever it is, out there.

21:31And they want him to have his freedom. Don't they want him to have a normal teenage life as well? Well, yeah. If he doesn't have a normal life, that's going to make his life later in life difficult. One final thought, just because we were talking about Harry. Do you think it must be quite difficult for these children to be cognizant of the fact that their father isn't speaking to his brother? Right? They must be. Well, I don't know. How much are children kind of attuned to the feud in the family? Because they'll probably know, would they, that Harry and Meghan and the children have come over and seen Grandpa.

22:10They haven't seen their cousins. And they would have seen them in 2022, wouldn't they? So they were old enough. Certainly George would have been old enough then and Charlotte to remember that. Yeah. It's not like they're hidden away and they don't know who they are. I wonder how that's being managed behind the scenes. In what's being said and how it's explained. I don't know. It's a difficult one, isn't it? And as they grow older, these kids, both sets of kids, may well want to know more about their cousins and who they are and have some kind of relationship with them. We don't know because the feud is between the fathers, isn't it, and the parents.

22:43So you bring it down a notch, these next generation who haven't been involved in that. It depends what they've been told, doesn't it? It does. And whether their minds have been... But any family knows if you don't see a set of cousins, it's because something's gone down with the siblings. I mean, in a way, this entire thing makes them more relatable because everybody has got that. The family drama. Yeah. But I just think for the children, I think as they get older, they might start questioning it. It's all out there anyway. George has got access to the internet, hasn't he? I mean, they can't shield them.

23:13It's all out there. Harry's written a book about it. I mean. Yeah, Harry's written a book about it. Good point, Vic. At any point, George can download the audio book and listen to his uncle slagging off his dad. And he's in his own room at Eton. Maybe that's what he'll do. Out of sight. He'll be really spare. Yeah. I mean, they can't. Meanwhile, Princess Charlotte, when she's got a Netflix account, can watch the whole of The Crown. Then if she wants to, she can watch. She can watch Harry and Meghan. With love, Meghan. And she can watch, she can learn how to make men. Clara Sprinkles and all that.

23:44She can make jam. She can put a wine bottle in a Japanese scarf and give it to a friend. India, any thoughts on that before we conclude? I do think that on the previous point, they have sort of trailblazed this new upbringing for royal children. They are trying to completely reset how royal children are brought up and the sort of like security emotional net that they have, let's call it. And I think in many ways on this issue as well, they will be very protective, first of all. So I'm sure they are shielding them right now from a lot of the information. But as you say, once they come of age, there's no stopping them from being curious and trying to find out for themselves.

24:23Victoria, top-notch Royal Analysis. Thank you very much and see you again on the Royal Tea at some point. I hope so.