The Traitors-style coup to bring down Keir Starmer

0:02The Telegraph

0:10Is West Streeting really a faithful or is he a traitor plotting to murder the Prime Minister? We take you inside the conspiracy to unseat Sir Keir Starmer with our political editor, Ben Riley-Smith. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Tim Stanley. And me, Camilla Tominy.

0:35It's one of those moments, Tim, where we had to immediately invite Ben Riley-Smith, political editor, into the Daily Tee studio, because there's been one coup this week, you and I and Ben, and the rest of the Telegraph staff here have tried to overthrow the BBC. And Donald Trump. And Donald Trump, of course. Yeah, he joined it. We're in cahoots, and Robbie Gibb. So there's that going on. And then, lo and behold, Ben, just as we were just about to put down our notebooks and pens last night, another coup. This time, a coup to replace Keir Starmer. What's going on in Westminster, Riley Smith? Well, it's exhausting.

1:10Probably need a big breath and I'll try and explain what we think is happening because we put in a lot of calls last night and again this morning. I think let's start with the context. Obviously, Labour is very unpopular right now, the government. Only about 18 % of people are saying they're going to vote for them. We know they've got a very tricky budget. Looks like they're going to break the manifesto. That's a really difficult political moment for them. And so, yes, Labour MPs privately often like talking about Keir Starmer, is he going to lash, is he the right man to go forward? But none of that was really bubbling up in the media earlier this week.

1:40And then you had this trio of media reports on Tuesday evening. The Guardian, The Times and Chris Mason, the BBC's political editor, all citing down the street sources saying essentially the same thing, which is if somebody comes for Keir with a leadership challenge, we are going to fight it, he is going to stand. and also it would be politically and economically mad to try and get rid of the Prime Minister. Now, when you suddenly see one story that has similar comments from a number of people, it starts your kind of spidey senses tingling. So we jumped on the phones, called as many people as we could.

2:13Clearly Downing Street wanted that position out there, that they would fight any challenge. The fascinating bit, and some of the sources in some of those stories, not all of them cited to Downing Street, but allies of Starmer, began pointing the finger at particular Cabinet ministers. Where Streeting, the health secretary, got a lot of heat. The Guardian story said they were concerned he was getting 50 front benches ready to jump and resign after the budget. Other cabinet ministers like Shabana Mahmood and Ed Miliband and former cabinet minister Angela Rayner were kind of fingered. But the timing was fascinating because Downing Street knew this morning where Streeting was doing a media round.

2:49Yes. So was it an attempt, question mark, wasn't an attempt to flush out streeting on manoeuvres, get it public and say, look, I'm supportive of Keir, it's all nonsense. I personally think, as my pet theory is, it was an attempt to replay what happened at Labour conference, which was Andy Burnham, of his own volition, went public with his leadership ambitions. he got absolutely slapped down by every Labour MP and Cabinet minister publicly and in a funny way Keir Starmer actually ended that emboldened because people said it would be mad to try and replace him now. So I think somebody in Downing Street thought, well look there's this muttering, so why don't we lean in and try and do the same to Wes?

3:29But has it backfired? It's backfired. But this is different to Andy Burnham, isn't it? Because first of all Wes is a sitting MP which was always the problem that Andy Burnham didn't seem to grasp. Which means he can run as leader if you're an MP the next time. Thank you, yes. And secondly, he's not open about wanting to do it. Andy Burnham would tell anyone who asked, like the postman, yeah, I'm interested in being prime minister in the most modest and self-effacing way. West Streeting isn't open about wanting to be prime minister, although we know he does, but he's not already running a campaign.

4:00So you're flushing out a man who isn't yet ready to be flushed. So to do that, the day before, the night before, he's going to go on a media round. OK, maybe you're giving him an opportunity to deny the rumours and stand behind the PM, or you're giving him an opportunity to talk about being Wes Streeting for 24 hours, how he's a great health secretary, etc, etc. The naivety of thinking that a media performer like Wes Streeting isn't going to take this as an opportunity to remind the country how much more capable he is at this stuff than the Prime Minister. I mean, let's listen to how he handled the questioning this morning.

4:42We're streeting, are you a faithful or are you a traitor? Yeah, someone's definitely been watching too much Celebrity Traitors in Downing Street. I think they should swap it for Countryfile in future and calm down a bit. I'm a faithful. In fact, what you've seen from a silly number 10 source overnight is probably the worst attack on a faithful since Joe Marler was banished in the Traitors final. So I'm treating it with the same level of seriousness that you are this morning. I mean, it's ticking so many boxes. It's showing him to be self-effacing and not taking himself too seriously. It's conveying the message that he has to convey that he is indeed loyal to the Prime Minister.

5:23It's making a cultural reference that then makes him relatable. Oh, he's watched Traitors and he understands England's Middle England. What a spectacular own goal for whoever it was who thought it was a wise idea to try and string him out live on air. I mean, was that Morgan McSweeney? Who orchestrated the initial, you know, the Prime Minister will stand up and fight efforts? Who's behind all that, Ben? Well, to jump on your first bit first, if I can, to read out a text from a government minister saying exactly what you said just then, Wes is now more popular because he is so self-assured. He took my breath away in answering every question directly and with humour.

6:02This is someone who is on the front bench, Keir Starmer appointed in a government department. So they're saying exactly what you're saying, which is they were trying to take the wind out of Wes's sails. Well, they've just shown exactly the appeal of him as a politician, which is he's a brilliant communicator. In terms of who's orchestrating it, I think that is a big question. It's clear on the Keir will stand and fight if he's challenged. That was Downing Street figures from the centre arguing that. on the Wes is on manoeuvres and he's plotting. That is less clear. And this afternoon over lunch, you've seen Keir Starmer come out and said, nobody on my team briefed against cabinet ministers.

6:36That's a terrible thing to do. You've seen number 10 in the official Hubble answering questions from the press afterwards saying, we didn't authorise any briefings against cabinet ministers. So quite who was pointing the finger at Wes is a bit of a kind of question mark. And it was interesting. Kemi Badenoch deliberately raised the idea that Morgan McSweeney, the influential chief of staff who helped win them the election, had been involved in some of these briefings. And Keir Starmer was asked if he had confidence in him. He said, Morgan and my team are doing a great job. He didn't say explicitly, yes, of course I've got confidence in him, which is often what the Prime Minister says when asked.

7:09So that's a wrinkle. Let's have a listen to the leader of the opposition, Kemi Bainlock, who for once really seemed to be enjoying PMQs today. Mr Speaker, what we heard the Health Secretary say this morning was that he wanted to cut waiting lists. but we all know that there's only one waiting list that he really wants to have. But the Prime Minister is not going to do anything about the toxic culture. This is his responsibility. Just last night, his allies accused not just the Health Secretary, but the Home Secretary and even the Energy Secretary of launching leadership bids. These attacks came from Number 10.

7:43Nowhere else, his toxic Number 10. The person responsible for the culture in Number 10 is his Chief of Staff, Morgan McSweeney. Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in him? To come back to this point about Isworth Streeting ready to be Prime Minister, it's mad of Number 10 or whoever it was to go through a list of people who might oppose the Prime Minister. That signals to the country that the Cabinet is not, as he claimed at PMQs, united, right? Huge laugh when he said that from Tory benches. It was genuine, instinctive laugh. It was preposterous. And also, if you're listing the people who'd like to get rid of him, you could extend it to 70 million names.

8:17We'd be here for a very long time. This question of is West Streeting prime minister in waiting, I don't buy it. Right-wing people think West Streeting is great because they think he's right-wing. Well, first of all, I'm not sure that's entirely true. Guido Fawkes has compiled some of his policy proposals from something he put out in 2020, which include tax capital gains on the same basis as income, increased corporation tax, supports a graduate tax and abolishing tuition fees. And I'd add to that that I believe he also said that he wants to promote gender equality within workplaces. So more diversity type rubbish, right?

8:54But isn't he just doing that because he is a good politician? He's an opportunist. He will say anything at any time in order to garner support. That's why he came out last week and said Mamdani in New York was the great thing. But that doesn't make me warm to him. So right wingers think he's great because they are under the impression he's right wing. I think he is in Labour terms. He is a Blairite, basically. He's a old progress kind of graduate. Then there's the view that, oh, he's a brilliant politician because he's good at changing his mind and being chameleon-like. Well, I don't find that a very attractive quality in someone.

9:25And I think one reason why he seems very good is because our bar on politicians being effective communicators is so low. Yes. That when he comes out and says, well, it reminds me of this thing that my researchers watched and told me all you people at home watched. So I'm going to mention it too and sound normal. I didn't say it like that, though. No, he did. No, he did. OK, OK. West Streeting. That's how Keir Starmer would have said it. No, I'm going to work on a West Streeting impersonation. I've known him for 20 years. I was at university with him, right? He is a classic example of a generation of politicians who are dead behind the eyes.

9:58They just have this stare. He just does this stare. And he'll just say something in this monotone like that. And actually, Tim Stanley, I think you'll find you wrong, because I watched that programme and I did enjoy it. And all the commentators are so used to the low, low standard politics. They go, that's amazing. Because in the course of that sentence, he didn't, I don't know, come out as a communist or shoot someone in the audience. He doesn't really. The point is, the bar has been set that low by the actual prime minister, who you're kind of doing an impression. He couldn't have got away with the traitor's joke.

10:33He wouldn't have been able to deliver it. I mean, there's a moment in PMQs today where somebody stands up and invites him to Rill, the seaside town in Wales. Yes, to enjoy long golden sands and a bucket full of memories. Let's just listen to his response, because it was a rare moment of humour from the Prime Minister. Thank you, Mr Speaker. With miles of golden sand and a bucket full of memories, Rill has been attracting visitors for generations. After millions of pounds of Welsh Government investment and a£20 million UK Government neighbourhood fund, Rill is on the up. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that only with two Labour governments working together can we restore pride in our Welsh seaside towns?

11:19Join me for a stroll on our new promenade to see just what Rill has to offer. Well, that's a very appealing invitation just at the moment. Mr Spichter. However, the point here is, Ben, is that all West Streeting needs to do is convince Labour Party MPs to prefer him as a prospect to fight the next election to Starmer. And, yes, OK, the timing of this is all curious. I would question the wisdom of going now. We haven't had the budget yet. The next budget on November the 26th could prove to be a near extinction level event for Labour, not least if it runs a coach and horses through the manifesto pledge on tax.

12:03Let's be honest, the only person rivaling the prime minister right now in the unpopularity stakes is the chancellor, who is equally robotic and difficult to relate to. So isn't streeting just placing a marker that most right and left-minded people look upon the pair and say, well, of course, streeting would be a better hope for securing a second Labour term than this guy who, let's be honest, is on the ropes. He's on the ropes, the prime minister. He's looking really vulnerable. He's actually looking faintly ridiculous. Ben? I think most Labour MPs and people who've been by Keir's side fighting the election would accept that West Streeting is a better communicator than Keir Starmer, even if the bar is exceptionally low as Tim says.

12:46I'll just make two points that kind of check the idea that he's suddenly about to Watson to Downing Street. One is you said, yes, you do need to convince Labour MPs that you're the right person. But it's really hard with the Labour Party to force out a prime minister. No sitting Labour prime minister has been forced out in a formal mechanism, obviously Brown, Elbow, Blair, to one side eventually. The reason is the mechanisms. You need 20 % of Labour MPs to publicly put their name to another leadership rival. So that means 81 Labour MPs right now will come out publicly and say, I think Keir Stom is the wrong man, Wes is the right man.

13:18That's really hard. Remember, in all those Tory years, it just need one in seven, one in eight Tory MPs to anonymously write a letter to trigger a vote. So that's very hard. And then the second challenge, which is a Wes challenge. if the leadership process runs as it normally does, MPs whittle down the candidates and then Labour members pick the winner. And in every survey we have of Labour members, West Streeting is near the bottom, presumably. Because for the reason I raised that we think and have bigged him up as right wing, that means Labour members hate him. Yes. I spoke to a Corbynite just before PMQs.

13:53I said, you must be enjoying this. And he said, I'm on cloud nine, enjoying watching the Blairites do to each other what they did to us a few years ago. Memories are long of that. Wes Streeting is perceived as a right-wing candidate. I don't think Labour members would go for him for that reason. And if you think about Labour's problems, we tend to see things with a prism of reform. Labour's got a problem with the Green Party right now. Does Wes Streeting appeal to young radical voters? I don't think so. I'm sorry, it sounds like I've got a personal beef against the guy, but I really do believe he is a hangover of an outdated form of politics.

14:33And he seems good because we're nostalgic for that time, because Blair was better than everyone else. But actually that style is very out of touch, and those political, whatever his political priorities are, I'm not quite sure what they are, but if he has a political personality, I'm not sure it taps into the zeitgeist of the Greens and the York Party. I know, but then you're trying to compete with unicorns. You know, the Greens are now lined with Ed Davey talking complete and utter nonsense about Robbie Gibb and the BBC thing, lacking any credibility at all. Our BBC. Our BBC. Our BBC. Labour has attached our to everything.

15:09Our kettle chips. It's just ridiculous. Our meningitis. I know. Then we had the ridiculous spectacle of Davey's deputy, Daisy Cooper, today saying that he was the only prospect to be prime minister. We should have a debate in another podcast about how Ed Davey is going to be winning a hell of a lot of votes by stealth and that we should never overlook the subtle influence of the Lib Dems in any next election, be it the locals or national. How about this, though? If streeting is put before the membership alongside the Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmoud, then he doesn't look right wing, does he? I just want to say on that point, just to come back, just to reinforce the point about what does the membership want?

15:52Look at the... We know because they just had a race for deputy leader. And who won? The person who wasn't Kit. The person who wasn't Lucy Powell because she was perceived as the left-wing candidate. So that's the real choice. But answer me that question. If it's Streeting versus Mahmoud, and let's be honest, you know, Morris Glassman and others on the right of the Labour Party are celebrating the elevation of the Home Secretary, who isn't being backwards in coming forwards, Ben. I mean, she's exploring a Danish-style immigration crackdown. She's going to make West Streeting look like Zahra Sultana.

16:30I think they're both on the right, and if it played out between those two, that would be a tussle of two figures on the right. I think in reality it would be very unlikely if they went to the members that you'd have two figures on the right because there are enough Labour MPs on the left to get a left-wing candidate.

16:55Can we just discuss for a moment the fact that Ed Miliband's name is in the hat? Now, it was mentioned, but then the reports I've seen have very quickly withdrawn that name because people have remembered who Ed Miliband is. Yes. How could they have forgotten, to be fair? I saw one report that said he'd been on a charm offensive in the Commons canteen, but the people he'd been trying to charm were underwhelmed. Well, people find him and his policies deeply offensive at not charming Miliband as PM. Could we contemplate that glorious future? I very rarely hear his name mentioned when you talk about possible leadership, Candace.

17:28You know, I covered 2015, as you guys did, and when you talk to figures around Miliband's team now, you always get the sense that he was kind of badly burnt by that defeat and quite a gruelling personal campaign as all the stuff about his dad brought into it. and I've never got the sense that he is hankering to get to number 10 again. Maybe that's me being naive and all politicians have that at the back of their heads. People might argue, oh, well, Miliband, we need him to take on the Greens. But the Green vote isn't about oil and gas licences in the North Sea, electric cars. No, it's about Israel and the mansion tax.

18:02It's moved on to socialism. It's no longer about that. I think my big takeaway from the whole thing, we can look in the rooms and try and work out what's happening. It seems undeniably clear to me that Downing Street wanted the message out there that Keir's going to fight a leadership challenge. And that, to me, makes me realise they genuinely are concerned that at some point, whether it's after the budget, whether it's after May, whether it's in the year, that his premiership is seriously under threat from Labour MPs. That is my single top level takeaway. But Ben, I wouldn't have assumed it was until he said it.

18:32Yes. There was a story about a week ago saying that if the budget goes very badly, some MPs are saying Starmer and Reeves would have to go. but I just dismiss that. It actually came up on Question Time. I was doing BBC Question Time and a member of the audience asked about it and I said that's pure fantasy. But now I'm thinking it might be true because number 10, in order to try to get ahead of it, have actually brought it to people's attention. We must just consider how much fun PMQs had with the prospect of the PM being in trouble, including a question by the Tory MP Lincoln Jopp, who was picking up on the Prime Minister's warm words about the importance of remembrance.

19:06Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I I associate myself with the Prime Minister's remarks about remembrance. I particularly remember in 1997 in West Africa, where I somehow managed to survive a bloody and violent attempted coup. So if the Prime Minister wants any ideas about how to do that, he only has to ask. And then later on, there was an accidental commentary upon a possible race by the Labour MP Fleur Anderson, who has been campaigning to get rid of plastic wet wipes, who gave the following advice, we must remember to bin our wet wipes and not flush them, and added, if you forget, we could end up with a fatberg.

19:50Which I think is a very cruel way to describe the Prime Minister. Indeed so, not least because he does appear to have lost a little bit of weight lately. A little. Overall, though, I mean, this is reminding me of the last days of any of the last premierships, which are all in recent memory, because there have been so many of them, Ben. And the overall picture, we've got Barry Gardner, the Labour MP, speaking on GB News last night, sort of saying this is just completely unacceptable and speaks to a degree of disorganisation and chaos. I mean, it's especially worrying for the Prime Minister because we're not even two years in.

20:22What are the WhatsApp groups saying? What are Labour MPs saying? Soft, middle, right, left, whatever. because I'm getting the general impression of a degree of mutiny being planned at the end of the day. I mean, that's how it seems. Also, as Tim has pointed out, once this has been made public, that you're having Downing Street shoring up a prime minister, I mean, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence among the electorate, does it? No, I mean, it's jaw-dropping how much has changed politically in 16 months. You cast your mind back to July 2024. Huge majority on the steps of Downing Street. Keir Starmer is telling us politics will tread much more lightly on your lives from now on.

21:03It feels like we're back in the psychodrama moments of late Liz Truss or mid-late Boris Johnson when there was a feeling on their backbenches at a certain moment that this just isn't working. We're going to have to try and work out a solution. It feels like a bit of that conversation is what's happening now with Labour. It plummeted dramatically in opinion polls, in Keir Starmer's personal poll rating. And people are beginning to talk about what happens if this doesn't turn. When do you act? How do you act? And who do you act for? And those conversations are going on privately across Westminster.

21:35And importantly, they are doing something that governments usually do late in their life, which is to internalize the discourse. It's about them. So watching Kemi Badenok trot out the complaints against Keir Starmer, there's a toxic culture in number 10, that there's sexism and all this sort of stuff. Looking at the faces of the MPs, they weren't going, oh, no, how ridiculous. They were sitting there and not quite nodding, but Diane Abbott was, shall we say, smirking. So this is a complaint they have. It's not just for them about policy. They also think that Number 10 is run by a bunch of brash boys who push them around.

22:10And it might be just worth picking up that point. It's just how to work out how bizarre situation it was this morning. You had the health secretary still in the cabinet saying, A, there is a toxic culture in Number 10, Keir Starmer's Number 10. B, there have been sexist briefings that have come out of number 10. He said, oh, it's normally female cabinet ministers, now it's me. And three, told Keir Starmer, sack whoever's been doing these briefings. I mean, that's the active in post health secretary. He told the prime minister to sack his own staff. Which is almost as bad as telling the prime minister he had to go.

22:39You've got to sack everyone around you. I mean, that's going to completely undercut his authority, isn't it? But as I say, they're internalising this to the extent that now policy, one suspects, is being decided in order to discourage mutiny. Just stop this. Hence, child benefit cap. Yes, exactly. Why are they doing the child benefit cap? Are they really doing it because they have to and the public's crying out for it? Or are they doing it because they've got an ugly budget coming up and need to set it to Labour backbenchers by throwing them a welfare increase? Absolutely. They just want to stave off a rebellion when there's a mounting rebellion over his leadership, let alone his policies.

23:13Just on the sexist briefings, women in Westminster talk, chaps. And even though I'm on the right... Too much, in my opinion. You should be back at home, in kitchen and bathroom, bedroom. No, I at conference did have a number of different people suggesting that they had been briefed against by number 10. And I'm talking about really senior Labour figures. And frankly, it's been on the record. Reports of people who have been briefed against include the following. The Chancellor, the Education Secretary Bridget Philipson, the Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy, the former Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, the former Transport Secretary Louise Haig.

23:55I mean, the list goes on and on. Lucy Powell. Lucy Powell. But is this because Labour appoints so many female ministers? Well, I think it's as Rosie Duffield did point out some months ago, that there has always been a woman problem at the heart of the Labour Parliamentary Party. And I'm sorry, that has been borne out by the fact that they have never managed to elect a female leader. Also, I think it's easier, as you say, for the lads in Number 10 to brief against the women. And I think that is very problematic. What a week it's been for sort of the expose of the hypocrisy at the heart of the BBC.

24:32And now it seems an expose of the double standards at the heart of this apparently very adult and grown-up administration. Don't worry after the chaos and confusion of the Tories. we're here, we're about to set it straight. And actually, under this Labour government, the country continues to hurtle towards some sort of disaster. Yeah. There was a moment, which is one of those points of clarity that reminds you of why you're not left-wing, which is when Rupert Lowe spoke. Oh, bless him. Well, wait. He talked about people being murdered by foreigners. And he said, in the worst cases, I don't know if he meant this specifically for foreigners, But in the worst cases, people might like to have the death penalty as an option.

25:17Therefore, isn't it time for a referendum on the death penalty? Now, I'm not in favor of bringing back the death penalty. But whenever people discuss it, I know where they're coming from. Because some crimes are so vile and disgusting, you just think someone should die for that. They should pay an eye for an eye. So I just spotted several Labour MPs shaking their heads with utter disgust. And the look on their face, you just know that what upsets them more than the thought of innocent people being terrorised is the state killing someone. Because there was none of the shaking their head when he described people being murdered.

25:50I'm not saying they don't care about people being murdered. I mean, what is your priority? What is your kind of moral trigger? What triggers them is the thought of bringing back the death penalty or a referendum on it. But what also triggers them is the fact that somebody like Rupert Lowe is sitting in Parliament alongside them. Is in Parliament. and they would like to pass a law that makes it impossible for that to happen. I can guarantee it. But do you know what? With the polls looking like they are, they better get used to standing alongside right-wing MPs, be they reform, be they people who have fallen out with Nigel Farage.

26:21Because there's going to be plenty more of them, Ben. Yeah, well, if the polls are to be believed, yeah, election tomorrow, Nigel Farage would be Prime Minister. Nigel Farage would prefer to go up against Keir Starmer 100 % than West Streeting or indeed Shibana Mahmood. Yeah, no, I'm sure that's absolutely right. Yeah. But we've been talking about bias in the BBC as not something which is consciously pursued, but just something that reflects groupthink. Well, the House's reaction to the mention of the possibility of the death penalty is to me an example of that groupthink. And it does not reflect the views of the public.

26:54two coups in a week who would have thunk it ben riley smith thank you very much indeed for hot footing it here presumably you're now going to be scribing away we shall look out for your copy on the latest stage of this saga tonight on the telegraph website thank you thank you very much we'll be back tomorrow at 5 p.m

27:24Thank you.