' This is a war for the survival of Jews' – Chief Rabbi stranded in Israel

0:02The Telegraph.

0:30Camilla: Visit telegraph.co.uk slash newsletters today.

0:40Camilla: Iran and Israel are at war with missiles landing on both sides of the border and the death toll rising. With Israel's airspace closed, around 40 ,000 visitors are trapped in the country, including thousands of Brits. One of them is the Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mervis, who had planned to travel from Israel to deliver a keynote address at the Conference of European Rabbis in Munich, but has been stranded in Herzlaya with his extended family. A visit originally planned to mark two simshas, or celebrations, is now marked by air raid sirens and nights in underground bunkers. Meanwhile, the conflict in the Middle East continues to have a significant impact on the lives of British Jews.

1:24Camilla: Their spiritual leader, the Chief Rabbi, joins me for this special episode. Welcome to The Daily Tea with me, Camilla Tominy.

1:43Camilla: Chief Rabbi, thank you so much for joining me. I fear we have something in common because even though I'm a Gentile and indeed a raised Catholic, My stepmother, sadly recently deceased, was from South Africa, a South African Jew like you. She was brought up in Boxburg in Johannesburg, the daughter of a German-born Auschwitz survivor. So when I was looking back at your history, I thought there was a little bit of kinship there. Let me just add one thing. The neighbouring town to Boxburg is Bernoni, and that's where I grew up. Well, there you are. She used to run a pharmacy in Bedford View, and that's how she met my dad, who is a doctor, Catholic.

2:19Camilla: Catholics and Jews, you see, we've long had an affinity. Now tell me, like thousands of others, you are now stranded in Israel. How has it been? I know you've spoken to some Jewish newspapers in the UK and said that you've lost count of how many times you've had to take shelter. Yeah, that is correct. So I'm sorry that I'm disappointing a whole lot of people through not being present in the UK at this time. My wife and I have been here for some wonderful family celebrations, expecting to return back to the UK on Sunday, but that has not been possible for obvious reasons. Our experience here is nothing compared to the hardship that many others are going through.

3:06And in fact, my primary thought every time that we go into the shelter is about 53 hostages who are still being kept in Gaza. It's now 622 days. They're being kept in the most horrific of conditions. And because now we're concentrating on Israel and Iran, we shouldn't for one moment forget their plight. And that's been foremost in my mind. And the inconvenience that we're facing is minimal compared to the suffering of many other people.

3:45Camilla: Can you tell me about when you first found out that Iranian airstrikes were taking place? Because it was Friday night. I'd assume that you were in the Shabbat then. You probably didn't have access to any technology. Did you know what was going on at that point? Yes, we did. You're right about the Shabbat regulations, but there is a radio station in Israel which respects the Shabbat laws and it goes silent for the whole of the Jewish Sabbath. However, every time there was a need for people to know something because it's a case of the saving of life they would broadcast and therefore we would be able to hear however we heard no reports as to the consequences of the attacks it was actually a very difficult day to endure we needed to wait until 8 32 p.m that time was edged into our minds because that would be the time when we'd be able to hear what had transpired over the previous 25 hours.

4:53Camilla: And what were your feelings at the time when you found out what was happening? Because we know that Israel is well protected by the Iron Dome, but as you say, you're there with your wife Valerie, must have been pretty frightening. Well, you see, this is not the first time that Israelis have been in such a situation. It's been going on for years and years, continuously prior to 7th October, even more so since the 7th of October, 2023. There have been two occasions in April and in October of 2024 when Iran directly attacked Israel. And therefore, especially after Thursday night, it was absolutely clear that this would be an Iranian response.

5:41So therefore, there was hardly any element of surprise, only the question of what will be the extent of damage to human life and to infrastructure. And this has been obviously a very concerning time.

5:58Camilla: And when you say you've had to take cover, just talk us through, because a lot of people reading the interview, listening to this, watching this, they won't understand what the situation has been like in Israel for such a long time for the people who are living there. So what actually happens? Does a siren go off? Where do you go? How do you take cover? How long do you have to do it for? How has it played out, Chief Rabbi? So taking cover in a shelter is a regular feature of life in Israel. And for me personally, I've needed to do this on quite a number of occasions when I've been a tourist in Israel over the years.

6:37First of all, there is a new situation which hadn't existed prior to current times. Previously, you would hear a siren. Now, you have a warning. Missiles have been launched, and there's X number of minutes until they will be reaching your area. So therefore, one has a period of warning. Where we're up to right now is that Iran is purposefully using missiles which take 12 minutes. And therefore, there isn't a lot of time to scramble to be in an area. And at the current time, the message usually is you have four minutes. So therefore, position yourself close to a safe room, a place of shelter. So there's a scramble.

7:30There have been many injuries in Israel as a result of the scramble of people rushing downstairs in a desperate effort to get to shelter. All modern houses are fitted with a safe room to protect the members of the household. There are, however, many people living in older houses who don't have such a room in their home, and therefore they need to go to a public shelter nearby. And that has been exceptionally challenging. for them. And very often, they don't reach that public shelter in time. And that has resulted in some of the casualties in Israel over recent days. And then so you come into the safe room, you close the door, and then you wait for a message to say, all clear.

8:21And that can take anything from 20 minutes to an hour. So you would have your safe room prepared with items to eat, to read, etc. Some safe rooms don't have internet access, such as the one that we're in, which makes it exceptionally challenging. But our phones are programmed to enable one to hear, you know, when you need to be in and when you can go out. And that's basically the rhythm of life. And it can happen at any time of the day, 24-7, and it has been happening at all kinds of times. And it is highly disruptive. And for people of all ages, particularly children, who don't really know what's going on, this is a time of deep anxiety.

9:12Camilla: the timing of you being there i know you're on your way to a conference in munich and then of course the airwaves were closed and you had to remain where you are to have a sort of front row seat as iran plays out the threat that is made against israel both directly and through its proxies hamas hezbollah the houthis for so many years which has been a threat to wipe out israel and all of the Israelis and Jews in it, to actually see that playing out as you're there, Chief Rabbi, what impact has that had on you? So we aren't now in the front row. We don't have a front row seat. We're on the stage.

9:51Camilla: Yes. Basically, every single person in Israel right now, and that includes Palestinians, Arabs, people of all nationalities and religions, every person in Israel right now is a target. and why am I being targeted? What is my sin? For what am I guilty? You know, together with 9 million other people in Israel right now, we are experiencing and we know it. It's very clear. It's a direct attempt to wipe out the Jewish state. And so many of us here in Israel are making a direct contrast to Israel's actions in Iran right now, where Israel's targets are military or people responsible for their nuclear program and who would have taken an active role in the potential destruction of Israel.

10:45And we are saddened by the loss of innocent civilian life in Iran right now, in the same way as we have been saddened about the loss of innocent civilian life in Gaza, because that has not been Israel's target. And in fact, right now with regard to Iranian people, my heart goes out to them because they've been suffering for decades under the regime that rules them, and they deserve a better life. And I really hope that one of the consequences of the current very trying time will be a decidedly better life for Iranians. So what's going on through our minds is an awareness, and it's an awful awareness, that at this very moment, one is a target to be wiped out, together with this entire state.

11:37And it's plain, it's straightforward. And I'm mystified as to why so many other people out there aren't really getting the reality of what is transpiring now, and why it is necessary for Israel to do what she's doing. This is not a war of choice that Israel is engaged in. It's a war of necessity.

11:59Camilla: There's been so much bloodshed since October the 7th. As a spiritual leader and a man of enormous faith, has it been hard to reconcile the statements you've just made there about Israel's right to exist and to defend itself with some of the reports we've been hearing? Yes, if there are attacks on nuclear sites, it will result in the deaths perhaps of military chiefs, of indeed nuclear scientists. Equally in Gaza, we've had some extremely troubling reports. Most recently, the one that stuck out to me as a mum was the doctor who lost nine of her ten children. It must be quite hard for you to process what has been going on.

12:43To process what is going on, I'm not having a problem with because the narrative is clear in terms of Hamas's efforts, what they've been planning for for the past 16 to 18 years, how it is all playing out, what is transpiring in Tehran. However, the reality of innocent human suffering is something which I'm finding very difficult because any person who has a heart within themselves must reach out with a lot of pain in our hearts to the suffering of innocent people at this time. And that is why we in our Jewish community in the UK have mentioned the plight of innocent Palestinians continuously.

13:32We have prayed for them. And it is tragic when any single innocent life is taken, together with the pain of the victims who have had injuries and emotional turmoil. So yes, this is an exceptionally difficult time. And for me at this very moment, seeing what's happening around me is, of course, difficult as well.

13:58Camilla: What's your reaction when people use the terms genocide and indeed apartheid, not least with your South African heritage in mind, to describe what Israel has been doing in the Middle East? Well, it is absolutely ridiculous. and so wrong. If genocide is going to be used within the current context, it's what Iran is planning. It's what Hamas started to do on the 7th of October, 2023. That is genuine genocide. As far as Israel is concerned, it is absolutely ridiculous to seriously assert that Israel is guilty of that. And it amounts to a blood libel against the Jewish state. With regard to apartheid, having grown up in South Africa within the time of the apartheid regime, I know what apartheid was about.

14:55And I know that in Israel, there is absolutely no apartheid. And I've had so many personal experiences which bear that out. If I could give you just one, I recall growing up in South Africa, how there were ambulances for white people and ambulances for people of colour, and one ambulance wasn't allowed to pick up somebody else of a different colour, just really cruel. There was a time when our late daughter became ill here in Israel, in Jerusalem, and we wanted to meet the head of the department in Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem, probably the top hospital in the country. And we were told his name was Professor Eid, an Arab man running the hospital in Jerusalem, who was a wonderful person in respect of what he was doing.

15:47And so much integration of Arabs within Israeli life is a reality on a day-to-day basis, to the extent that it was an Arab judge who jailed a former president. No, actually, he was president of Israel at the time, President Katsip. So there is absolutely no apartheid here whatsoever. Israel has its challenges, but it is absolutely wrong to assert that it's apartheid.

16:16Camilla: And on the issue of proportionality of Israel's response, Chief Rabbi? So I think that one needs to consider the context within which Israel is waging its war. Proportionality is an important consideration. And interestingly, during the period of time I was expecting to be here, not the extension which we're currently going through, I interviewed for some podcasts that I'm intending to produce a number of key personnel in Israel in order to hear from them the reality of the truth of what is transpiring. And I interviewed a person who until only a few months ago was part of a unit within Israel's army, which is hardly known around the world.

17:10And that is a unit which needs to assess every single action of the IDF, the morality of it, the potential casualties, what the target is, the chances of this being achievable. and the go-ahead for the IDF to undertake its actions will only happen once the heads of this unit convey the message, we have assessed this according to international law, according to international humanitarian law. That's the principles upon which, these are the principles upon which the IDF acts. And I was deeply impressed to hear from somebody from the inside. you know you're speaking to me now asking for me stories from the inside of what's happening so I heard what is happening in the IDF and that is the reality of what is being carried out and as opposed to the impression that is often given about Israel being in breach of the international law international humanitarian law God forbid going for innocence not considering proportionality in an appropriate and responsible way.

18:23I actually believe from what I've heard, and I've heard so much from so many people who are active, who have been in Gaza, who are active now in Iran, that in fact the reality of what's happening is that Israel is fighting a war in a most ethical manner.

18:45Camilla: Why do you think it is that Israel appears to have been losing the propaganda war, particularly when it comes to social media. Back in the UK, we've seen a degree of what I would describe as indoctrination inside higher education, inside some institutions. We've seen pro-Palestinian marches through the streets of London, which has sometimes seen the flying of Hamas or Hezbollah flags. Most recently, we saw Iranian flags march through the capital in solidarity with a regime which I think at first glance many people in this country would say is completely opposed to British values. How's that happened Chief Rabbi?

19:32So first of all with regard to opposition to British values, thank you for mentioning that, I'll get to answer your question fully, but that actually is a central element of what is transpiring right now because the war between Israel and Iran is a war of values and Israel is on the front line of our entire western civilization because Iran is the head of a monstrous being the tentacles of which are Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis and Boko Haram and IS and others and Israel right now is the one which is being attacked. However, stage two very clearly, according to the stated intentions of Iran, is Europe, Western civilization and there is so much that Israel is doing which is not being fully appreciated but one day will be fully appreciated.

20:32I mean, if I give you an example, in 1981, Israel attacked the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq. The Prime Minister at the time, Enachen Beggin, got a dressing down from President Ronald Reagan at the time. There was a chilling of relations between Israel and America. But a number of years later, the world realized how right Israel was. And similarly, in 2007, with the Jirazun nuclear reactor in Syria, Israel destroyed it, much to the denigration of people around the world and countries. And now we appreciate how important it was that President Assad should not have a nuclear arsenal that he could use.

21:17And I believe similarly what Israel is doing now will be hugely appreciated because what Israel is doing is not just for Israel's sake, it's for all of our Western civilization. With regard to the battle on social media, I think there are three clear contributing factors to the extent that Israel is losing the battle of the media. First of all, Israel's enemies have been investing in their social media capacity over many years, recognizing how important it is. And in fact, one of the hostages whom I interviewed, who was kept in Gaza for 50 days, her name is Shoshan Haran. She, together with her daughter and her grandchildren, little grandchildren, they were held captive in a home in Gaza.

22:14And she was speaking to some of the heads of Hamas because they were kept close to them as human shields. And she described to me how the heads of Hamas were telling her that they had broadcast to the world on the 7th of October 2023 that Israel was guilty of genocide before there was even any reaction. They had it all set up, the allegation, the accusation of genocide. It was a masterful act that they achieved to spread this message, and it worked well. So that's the first contributing factor. The second is Israel has never been good at what Israelis call Hasbara, which is explaining herself.

23:10And I think that many in Israel acknowledge that this has developed into a weakness and more should have been invested in this, because it's not only important to do what you believe is right, but perception is also important. And what I'm pleased to see is that now there are efforts on Israel's side to improve the manner in which it presents its case, but there is still a lot more to be done there. And the third contributing factor, sadly, is plain and outright anti-Semitism. Social media provides a platform for anti-Semites to say what they would and for people to read it. And people are far more ready to express their negativity on social media than they are their positivity.

23:57And therefore, the most horrific statements are being issued, outlandish and totally false. And nobody is there to check up on it or to correct it. And AI is contributing to that right now.

24:27Camilla: Generate ideas in seconds, import your brand, and create full campaigns with simple prompts. Get started for free at ActiveCampaign.com. I'm Vinicius Rainey. And I'm Roland Olyphant. As hosts of The Telegraph's podcast Iran The Latest, it's our job to keep you up to speed on what's going on in the Middle East. Join us every day as we ask, can the US put an end to Iran's nuclear ambitions once and for all? Who will come out on top in the peace talks? Has this war damaged America's ability to take on China? And what are the long-term implications for the wider world? Search Iran The Latest and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

25:03Camilla: We're also now on video. Watch us on YouTube and on The Telegraph's website.

25:17Camilla: It also perhaps hasn't helped, Chief Rabbi, that we've had a number of high-profile figures taken in by some of the propaganda. I'm thinking about Gary Lineker, who had to apologise for retweeting a post which contained a reference to a rat in terms of the Jewish population. And indeed, Dawn French, who had to apologise and take down a video that appeared to mock the victims of October the 7th. Are these people useful idiots? I think that it is hugely important for people to appreciate the impact of social media. In our Jewish tradition, we tell a story of a man who came to a rabbi and he said, I feel so bad I've been guilty of libel, I've been spreading falsehoods about people.

26:05Please can you advise me, how can I repent? and the rabbi said okay there is only one way for you to repent and that is go and take a box put hundreds of feathers in it stand on the top of a hill on a windy day and allow all the feathers to leave the box after one hour go and collect all the feathers put them back into the box and the man said but that's impossible and the rabbi said that's my answer to you and before the advent of social media, the impact that one's word had were relatively limited. But today, in a split second, people living on the other side of the world receive our messages.

26:49And even when there is a correction or an apology, it hardly goes any way towards removing that initial impression from people's minds. Therefore, it is so important. And this doesn't just relate to Israel's current conflict, but to all of our engagement on social media. Responsibility is called for people. Think before you press the click button, because once out, you can't put it back in.

27:16Camilla: I'd like to ask you about the safety and indeed the feelings of British Jews in just a moment. But how are the Israeli people at the moment? And how fearful are you for family living out there? So I'm finding my stay here right now at this very time inspirational because this is not a new phenomenon for Israelis. They've experienced facing the threat of annihilation over many decades and they are resilient. They're filled with fortitude and they are strong and exceptionally positive and also united. And I find this fascinating and very important. Israeli society is well known for being divided.

28:05And Israel is a vibrant democracy. And you see it played out in a very demonstrative way. But with regard to this current conflict with Iran, everybody is united in their view. Even the official opposition led by Yair Lapid, who has been so critical of Israel's government. He has publicly announced his full support for Israel's government at this time. And that is because every Israeli knows the reality. This is a war for survival. And to visit a country and to feel that sense of sisterhood and brotherhood and unity is something very important. And we're experiencing quite an extraordinary phenomenon.

28:53I don't think there's ever been a previous occasion on which rescue flights for tens of thousands of people are being arranged to bring civilians directly into a combat zone.

29:09Camilla: Yes. And this is what's happening right now, because it is estimated that there are 100 ,000 to 200 ,000 Israelis currently abroad, and they are desperate to get back home. And these are called rescue missions. Maybe emergency missions might be better, but rescue missions to bring people who want to be on the front line. Because Israel is the place where they feel they belong. They want to give encouragement and support to family, to friends and to the whole nation. And I'm finding that absolutely remarkable right now. If your family members or friends want to sign up to the IDF, what do you say to them, Chief Rabbi?

29:49Well, I'm proud of the fact that I have members of family and many friends who are in the Israeli army and they are doing what is responsible as a citizen of Israel at a time when the state, its very existence is being threatened. They are doing what responsible citizens do.

30:14Camilla: What's also interesting, aside from the so-called rescue flights into Tel Aviv and other Israeli areas, there has also been a recent phenomenon of a lot of British Jews, despite the conflict in Israel, wanting to move from the UK to Israel. Now, the worrying side of that is it suggests that British Jews do not feel safe in the UK. So I think the best way for me to describe this is we're part of a global what we call Mishpacha family. And wherever Jewish people are, we feel at one with each other wherever we might be. and it runs very deep, but all the more so when it comes to Israel, because we need to recognize that Israel is not just a geopolitical reality for Jewish people.

31:11It is the heart of Jewish faith, of Jewish religion, and it's a home away from home or even just home, wherever we might be. So, for example, in Britain, we are exceptionally proud to be citizens of our great British nation, And at the same time, Israel is part of home for us and it's part of family. British Jews have found life since the 7th of October exceptionally difficult and sometimes even traumatic because of close family members and friends. And even if not so, just the fact that the Jewish state is enduring what it is enduring, ongoing concern. But fascinatingly enough, this has also been felt in Israel for diaspora juries.

31:56I'll give you an example. In January 2024, I was in Davos where I gave an address to the World Economic Forum. and President Herzog of Israel was attending with four remarkable ladies who had been held hostage in Gaza and they were coming to Davos to speak to world leaders for the sake of the remaining hostages. And I was privileged to have a meeting which was arranged for me to meet with these four survivors of the tunnels in Gaza and their families. And as soon as I came into the room, one of the ladies rushed to me and she said, Chief Rabbi, are you OK? Is your family all right? How are people in London?

32:39I said, well, why are you asking? She said, well, every Saturday we see these scenes on television about the demonstrations through the heart of London. Are you all all right? And I said to this lady, Almighty God, you've been to hell and back. You've been a hostage in Gaza. And you're concerned about us in London. And she said yes. And that's the way that the Jewish world works. And that describes why everybody's concerned about everybody else. And most definitely within our UK Jewish community at this time, there is deep concern for Israel because it comes right at the heart of our very Jewish life and of our Jewish faith.

33:21Camilla: And also the war between Israel and Iran has heightened fears of the safety of British Jews. We know that the CST, the Community Security Trust, has stepped up security outside synagogues. So is there more of a threat now to Jews in the UK than there was in the immediate aftermath of October the 7th, do you think, Chief Rabbi? My one-word answer is sadly yes. But I think we need to discuss to understand this at two levels. First of all, the reality right now, and it has been since the 7th of October, is if one issues a statement which is anti-Zionist, it's an attack on Jewish people and to Judaism.

34:05It amounts to anti-Semitism. And when there is an unjustified attack, verbal attack or whatever it is on Israel at this time, then it very quickly can become effectively an attack on Jews. And Israel's vulnerability is the vulnerability of Jews globally. And when governments adopt policies which are unjustifiably anti-Israel, then that contributes to a tone within our societies which strengthens the hands of anti-Semites and does not play out to the benefit of the Jewish communities in those countries. The second consideration right now is the fact that we know there are Iranian agents in the UK right now.

35:02We know that an attack on a Jewish community in the north of England, thank God, was foiled last year. We know that there was a planned attack on the Israeli embassy in London just a month ago. and I would like to pay tribute to the help that our UK government is giving to our Jewish community and to our protection and to the police authorities for the protection that they are giving us. But the threat is real and as we mentioned earlier, the threat is not just to Jews, it's to our entire society.

35:42Camilla: When you look at the growing incidents of anti-Semitism that have been recorded since October the 7th. And we talked a little earlier about indoctrination of young people in schools and universities. Do you worry? I mean, the sort of slogan of the Holocaust was never again, never again should Jews face this sort of persecution. And yet this may have, is radicalised too strong a term, possibly, but may have turned a generation against the Jews. despite all of the work that has been done on the awareness of what happened during the Second World War, Chief Rabbi. Do you fear for the Gen Zs and the Gen Alphas?

36:29We are concerned about the future for our children and our grandchildren around the world. This is a global phenomenon. the fact that we're seeing an intensification of Jew hatred, and everything must be done to ensure that we increase the level of understanding, of tolerance, of love of others, and to engage not just in protection, but also in prevention. This is why I am a very enthusiastic supporter of the United Kingdom Holocaust Memorial Foundation initiative to establish a memorial and a learning center in close proximity to our Houses of Parliament, to act as a citadel of inspiration to our society so that people should never forget what happened in the Holocaust.

37:26and in order that this will serve as a lesson for our entire society during challenging times.

37:34Camilla: I want to end on a hopeful note. I'll come on to that in a minute, but the practicalities of you being Chief Rabbi out there right now, I mean, because I would assume that had you attended this conference, you'd then be back in the UK. I know you travel the length and breadth of the country meeting people. It must be quite restrictive. It feels like it might be like COVID all over again. What are you having to do, Chief Rabbi, have meetings on Zooms and things like this? It's actually interesting. The comparison to Covid is quite a strong one because there are certain times of day here in Israel that I, you know, streets are empty, restaurants are closed actually all the time now.

38:12I see my grandchildren having classes on Zoom because schools are closed. It's very upsetting because this is the end of the school year right now in Israel. They're not having the end of year parties, celebrations, prize givings, graduations. And yet people are exceptionally positive and resilient. And as for me, you know, being here right now, that's the way it is. I'm just sorry that I'm disappointing people who would have expected me to participate in person at certain events in the UK. Looking forward to coming back. But also, I'm personally inspired through what I am experiencing here. And if you're going to be prevented from travelling back home on your intended date and you're stuck somewhere, for me, there's no better place in the world than Israel.

39:07Have you been given?

39:10Camilla: any indication at all of when you might be able to return to the UK? No, there is no clarity. And I think it's very straightforward. As soon as the skies are clear and there is no threat of missile attack, that's when Ben Gurion Airport will open for the public. But until then, there are all kinds of desperate measures. One can atop through travelling to Amman or Shahrim or Shekha, travelling by ship, etc. But it's dangerous to be out there. You know, one needs to be in close proximity to a shelter 24-7. And that's why we are waiting for regular flights to resume. and our prayers right now are for the state of Israel, for the Jewish people.

39:56We're concerned for the people of Iran and their future. We are concerned for all the people of this region and the future of the region. And may God bless us all that further to these very significant days of biblical proportions may we achieve and enjoy the peace that we pray for and long for all the time.

40:23Camilla: That final positive note, I was wondering, despite everything that we've said about anti-Semitism in Britain and the challenges particularly that the Jewish community has faced, has there been any light out of the shade? Have there been moments of comfort where the Jewish community has felt supported by their fellow Brits? I think that there are two levels of realistic positivity. First of all, and thank you for asking me about this, we are blessed to have wonderful friends. And I have been so encouraged by so many letters and emails and communications and calls from people who describe very emotionally how close they feel to Jews, to Judaism, to Israel.

41:12their prayers for us and I had a marvelous experience I was in Edinburgh on the 8th of October last year to meet with the community and the date is significant because on the main table where they sat me and the community was facing me there were two wonderful bouquets of flowers and I kind of naively thought to myself gosh this is really nice the chief rabbis come and they've got these lovely flowers but then the president of the community explained to everybody that the flowers had been left at the door of the synagogue the day before by well wishes people living in the area were the most beautiful notes of solidarity and prayers for the Jewish community at that time it was the first anniversary of the 7th of October and there are so many other expressions of love for Jews and solidarity with us.

42:10And I have no doubt whatsoever that the vast majority of the British people feel very close to Jews and Judaism and wish us well. And there is another area for hope. It's not going to happen today or tomorrow, but I genuinely believe that a consequence of the current conflict will be a better world. That is what Israel is trying to achieve every moment right now, through sadly having to be on the offensive to attack Iran, and the way in which we see what has happened in Syria, in Lebanon, what has happened in Gaza, the development of the Abraham Accords, a wonderful initiative, which I personally have invested a lot of effort into, and the potential for a strengthening of ties with Israel.

43:09Saudi Arabia will be central to this. And I hope and pray that the Saudis will join the Abraham Accords in the not-too-distant future. And there is enormous potential for a far happier and peaceful and tranquil Middle East. It will take some time, but I genuinely believe that that is what will be achieved. We, the Jewish people, place peace at the center of our lives. The word Shalom, peace, is the most important word in all of our prayers, in all of our ceremonies. It's what we pray for, what we yearn for, what we work towards. And may God bless us all. for everybody in the world to be blessed with peace.

43:54Camilla: Chief Rabbi, thank you very much indeed for joining me today and stay safe. Thank you.

44:21Thank you.