Why Queen Camilla is the key to reuniting William and Harry

0:02The Telegraph.

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0:51Welcome to The Royal Tea, a podcast serving up the very best royal insight with me, Camilla Tomini. And me, Hannah Finesse, the Telegraph's Royal Editor. So the King has finally seen his grandchildren Archie and Lilibet for the first time in four years. Yes, Meghan came to the UK after all and brought her children with her. The reunion happened behind closed doors at Highgrove and we've seen no photographic evidence yet. But it doesn't mean we won't. This is Harry and Meghan we're talking about after all.

1:30Today we're joined by Simon Veiger, Five News' chief royal correspondent who's been covering the royal family for the last 30 years. He says Meghan remains a divisive figure, but her influence could well define the future role of royals outside the direct line of succession. Welcome. Simon Veiger, my friend. This is a wonderful book, The Four Wives of Windsor, not least because look at this person you got to endorse it. Look who's on the front cover. What does she say? Truly original, dot, dot, dot, full of insight and intrigue. Camilla Tomini, The Daily Telegraph, which means that sales of this unfortunately will slump.

2:06People are like, what the hell does she know about anything? It's actually a very entertaining read, this Simon Deiger. Thank you very much. Drawing from a wealth of experience on the road, some of it with us too. Absolutely, and speaking to lots of people who've worked with the four women there, it's the first sort of comparative study of what they brought to the family, the good and the bad, and how they fared. it's very clever I like the concept because it's actually quite hard to be original with a royal book isn't it because people have done it all but this is nice this is the women of Windsor and we applaud it yeah I've always thought the outsider well I thought over the recent years it's the outsiders who come in whether it's Prince Philip or Queen Mum whatever Wallace Simpson it's the outsiders who come in who sort of change it either deliberately or not and these four women here have certainly changed it or are changing it All right.

2:56Well, there's one woman here who's changed it considerably. There she is. Yes. Our mutual friend, Meghan. Now, to be fair, when we last were together in this studio, we didn't think there was going to be any royal reconciliation or it all looked very acrimonious. Prince Harry was invited to stay at Buckingham Palace. Then he wasn't. He agreed. He disagreed. They can't come here because of the security. The accommodation was a problem. And then lo and behold, just when we were least expecting it, they all turn up at Highgrove. The king, and I think it should be noted, the queen, welcomed Harry, Meghan, Archie and Lilibet for a kind of behind the scenes.

3:35What do we think they had? A cup of tea? Sandwich? Some honey. Some honey, surely a jar sort. Yeah, sprinkled with flower petals, of course. Of course, yeah, dressed up, bottle of wine, served in a Japanese scarf. But the point is, is that they all got together. What are we to read into this, Simon Weigel? Well, it was a bit special, wasn't it? There's no, as you say, there's no photo at all. So four years ago at St Paul's Cathedral, of course, there were boos among the crowd there against the Duchess of Sussex. Nothing like that this time. They were sort of in and out. There was no public element to it at all.

4:09It seems to me, I mean, what a mess. Still, what an ongoing omni-shambles this is. two steps forward, one step back with the Buckingham Palace, staying at Buckingham Palace, can he, can't he, and all that sort of thing. But hopefully, I mean, clearly there is, you know, the rift is being healed there with the king and Camilla, but with William and Catherine nothing, and obviously that's never going to go back to the way it was. Well, they had a wonderful weekend at Wimbledon. Ignore them the whole fargo. Hannah, royal reconciliation, who'd have thunk it? Do you think that the king has done well out of this?

4:44How do you think the palace has handled this week? Because it felt to me like the king kind of salvaged the trip for Harry. Yeah, well, so the Buckingham Palace, staying at Buckingham Palace, that was a mess. But yeah, I mean, the meeting at the end of the week has been good. I think there's a lot of sympathy for the king, isn't there? And everything he's gone through over the last couple of years since becoming king health-wise. So the biggest sadness for me is that he doesn't know those grandchildren. and you know it's a family you know it's a they're royal but they're a family and that's really sad that those children don't know their grandfather so hopefully now there will be more trips and especially as we've seen the close bond between him and the wales children and like little louis bouncing on his knee during the platinum jubilee was that yeah that was the last time they were here right and we know as well as parents how quickly children can change so in that four years from seeing them in 2022 to now beyond all recognition I think it's good PR for them both isn't it I mean I wrote a column at the weekend which was perhaps less favorable towards them than other royal commentators merely making the point that all of that briefing about the palace I think I think there is an aspect to this where the Sussexes do tend to thrive on drama And I don't know whether that is just because they're quite dramatic people or whether it's because they are curating or cultivating another story to tell.

6:13And so I think it's all very convenient to be briefing the media about the ins and outs of their accommodation in London and what a nightmare it all is. In the midst of that, obviously, we get the judgment against Harry and the fellow six claimants and for the male newspaper group, which isn't great for him. He redeemed it largely. OK, the king helped. I think the whole Alison Hammond, my friend on This Morning, hosting that event with him in Birmingham, because it's obviously all about the Invictus Games, him featuring on This Morning and doing what he used to do really well, which is being himself, being a kind of fun prince, being great with people.

6:51He's brilliant with the people that he works with on the charities front. Do you think it still works now he's in his 40s? Oh, well, you tell us your theory on that, Hannah. Well, I don't know. I was watching from afar. I was watching the footage on ITV, like on This Morning, like everybody else. And I thought this could be exactly what he was doing before he left the royal family. He was bouncing around. He was taking part in the races. He was beating some competitors in wheelchairs in a race. Doing goat yoga. Goat yoga on Saturday. Who knew? Yeah. Obviously, he is brilliant with the kids, double pun intended.

7:25But it felt a bit frozen in time. And I don't know how we're obviously in the bubble. How do you think it comes across to people outside of the bubble? Is it same old lovable Harry or is it he's in his 40s now? William and the King have kind of moved on in their roles drastically. And where's it left Harry? Yeah, I think, well, to me, it's look what you're missing. And it is terribly sad that, you know, Harry and Meghan aren't part of the royal family and egos got in the way. And, you know, it should never have happened. It should have been prevented. But egos got in the way. But what you said there about is it is it sort of thing you should be doing as he becomes middle aged?

8:00That hits the nail on the head, really. Maybe he saw a way out in 2020. He thought they could have a hybrid role. Then they were told at the Sandringham Summit, you can't have a hybrid role. He saw a way out and he's gone for it. And maybe he felt exactly what you're saying there, that actually how long can I keep up the shtick anyway? I don't mind the larking about. I mean, I think that's just, that's where, that's the kind of person he is. I mean, there was this quote, wasn't there, by Mike Tindall commenting on when Harry used to be fun. I think that's his natural disposition. I think he is.

8:37It's weird, really, because since Megxit, he's appeared to take himself far too seriously when his entire appeal was that he didn't take himself that seriously at all. And maybe that whole thing was a mirage because actually most members of the royal family have been brought up to take themselves quite seriously. And that's their natural demeanor. I think that he can be quite playful and childlike because I think that's a part of his character. I've always said, and I would never take away from him how good he is with the general public and how good he is with people with profound disabilities, how good he is in committing himself fully to the causes he champions.

9:13I don't think anyone can ever take away how genuine that is. I think he's like his mother. I think he really wants to make a difference. And I think he understands his position of privilege to do that. I think he's just got lost in a sort of sea of a degree of woe is me-ism that's completely misplaced. Because at the end of the day, you're a multimillionaire living in Montecito. Stop bloody grumbling and just get on with life. Just on the kind of thriving on drama thing. So there's no imagery of this meeting. Again, I'm sounding so cynical, but because they've monetized all of these aspects of their lives.

9:50this is the irony about him losing the court case on invasion of privacy as paul dacre the head of associated newspapers said there isn't a laundry big enough in the cosmos to to sort of air the dirty linen that you have aired yourself to wash that dirty linen clean there is an aspect to all this where i look at it and think well will imagery emerge at some point of this meeting with the king it would be in their favor we now know that they were briefing all along it did come Now, Charlotte Griffiths, the editor at large of the Mail on Sunday, this is the paper, one of the papers he's suing, reveals that it was Team Sussex that briefed them about this meeting with the King's aide to work on a reconciliation.

10:31So they do use this stuff to try and improve their own reputation, Hannah, is all I'm saying. Do you think that Highgrove is going to play into this at all? So the meeting at Highgrove felt to me very different to a meeting at Buckingham Palace, and it's one where the King and Queen Camilla can have control over what's coming into their house if you think there's a suspicion which there has been correctly or not among some people on the royal side that perhaps some cameras might be brought along to a meeting like this if you're doing it in your favorite house with your gardens with the tree house that Harry and William used to play in when they were little does it give a little bit more control to the king and queen does it yeah is it a nicer So messaging, maybe?

11:13Trust is wafer thin, isn't it? And that's going to take a long time to get back. But yeah, that makes total sense. And it's William's property, lest we forget. It's the Dugy of Cornwall Land, Highgrove. So the king prays rent to William to be at Highgrove. One of those weird royal things. But then how on earth is William feeling about all this? He's just looking. Well, he's looking the other way, isn't he? Imperial ostrich strategy. He's looking towards centre court. Yeah. But I mean, I think this is tricky now because we know that the king and the prince of Wales aren't aligned on this. But we also understand that a father loves his son and that it's probably easier for a parent to forgive an errant child than it is a sibling who has been thrown under a bus by him, notwithstanding the stuff.

12:00I mean, this is what I'm amazed at, Camilla's presence there. Fair play to her. I mean, of everyone, he was most horrible about his stepmother. Yeah, absolutely. She left bodies in the street. She got in bed with the devil. Yeah. I mean, this is from a guy who, by the way, just to mention Griffiths again, exchanged flirtatious Facebook messages with her back in the late noughties. It's extraordinary. Scheming to get to the crown and adverse publicity against William and Harry. I'm going to bring it back to Diana because Diana would be devastated by what's happened to her sons and how they've fallen out.

12:39and nobody could have predicted how it would be so catastrophic. If she was alive today, this wouldn't have happened, would it? No. She would have knocked their heads together at the very beginning. They wouldn't dare. And how do you think the royal wives of Windsor have played into this week? So what has Meghan's influence been? What has Queen Camilla's influence been? What is the Princess of Wales doing behind the scenes? Can you give us any insight? Well, Meghan, some people paint her as Lady Macbeth, who's masterminded the whole thing. I've never bought into that. And certainly the people I've spoken to, you know, behind the scenes don't buy into that.

13:15I believe clearly she got fed up with royal life and felt that they weren't being listened to or treated well. But I think Harry's was the main motivation. He saw a way out. He felt cornered at that Sandringham summit where he thought they could have a hybrid role. Then that was taken away by Charles, the Queen and William. And so he's seen the way out and he's gone for it. By the way, he's seen what's happened to a young dashing prince, national hero, who becomes less and less relevant and more and more bitter. And I'm not comparing Harry and Andrew at all. But Harry's thought, you know, do I want to become less and less relevant?

13:55No. So he's gone for it. Catherine and Meghan are, I don't think they're forefront on this one. I think it's William and Charles who are driving it. But Camilla's presence at Tigrave is given, as you say, what Harry wrote about her in his own book is certainly significant. What did you find out about Kate stroke Catherine? Because we've discussed the princess on previous podcasts and just said how elusive she is and how perhaps misunderstood. I'm just thinking back to all of the early headlines about weighty Katie and she was depicted as a bit of a royal doormat and she's the plus one. and you paint a very different picture.

14:36Yeah. And by the way, you know, the idea that Meghan is the first person coming into the family who gets adverse publicity is total nonsense to be polite about it. I mean, they've all, they all had that. Well, look at Fergie. To a greater or lesser extent. I mean, goodness me, but yes. Catherine, I believe, is the smartest of all of them. Now, some may say that's not difficult. but I think she is she went into it eyes wide open they gave her they learned the lessons of Diana being rushed in they gave Catherine all the time in the world to decide whether she wanted to buy into this and once she decided she was absolutely going in eyes wide open very strategic what do you mean by that very strategic she there are people in the royal family who now understand that it is marketing, it is branding, that is important in the 21st century, but they didn't 20 years ago or 25 years ago.

15:33We're not a brand, was the sort of reaction. Catherine completely gets that they are a brand and they need, and so she's very strategic in what she does and how she does it. Very small number of patronages, for example, early years education being the big one. And that's what she's absolutely laser focused on. We believe, I believe that she was behind the recollections may vary. It's in Valentine Lowe's book, the recollections may vary line in the statement. Do you? Well, that's Val's little exclusive. All right. What further evidence of that did you find? Little exclusive. None apart from what I said.

16:17I trust Val completely. Do you think, Matt, that she came up with Recollections May Vary? It came from their household. I'm certain of that. Whether it was her personally, I can't speak to. They insisted on it being in the statement because they took a long time for that statement to come out. Yes. But again, I know exactly what you're saying because I always thought the depiction of her as some kind of wallflower who was just going to go along with her husband and whatever he said. And we know he's headstrong, William Wright, and he can dig his heels in. We all witness that when the topless photos emerge when we're in the middle of Borneo, up a bloody rainforest canopy at the time.

16:51Yes, of course. And she was the one who just kept everyone's heads very calm and said, excuse me, hang on a minute. If you don't mind, these are my breasts that all of these men are discussing. Can we just take a breath and calm down? She was amazing. She was so cool. We saw William fizzing with anger on that day. We literally witnessed it, didn't we? Yeah, yeah, he stormed past us. He was bouncing off, I was going to say, bouncing off the walls, bouncing off the trees. But I make that point about her. I never saw that. This is the daughter of Carol with an E and Michael, a couple that have socially mobilised themselves to the highest echelons of society.

17:27We know that Mrs Middleton isn't backward in coming forward, that she's very ambitious for her children, that they're all highly well educated. She's educated them actually beyond her own education. She's almost managed to elevate them beyond her own class, actually, because if you look at the family tree, it's Michael's side of the family that is quite well to do. and Carol's isn't and I don't say that to disparage her at all but you don't get a daughter being brought up by parents like that taking a back seat even though she's an introvert and pretty subtle in her approach she knows her own mind yeah she was amazing on that trip and we there was a media reception a few days after that we all thought was going to be cancelled because of the topless photos actually she turned up they both turned up he had calmed down um told us you know he absolutely did differentiate between the paparazzi and the accredited royal media she was amazing and um you know she's she's she's uh really grown into the role she you know she doesn't like public speaking but she's you know taken training there and um as far as william's anger with the topless photos is concerned i was told that you know that was existential for him because it happened in france of course only yeah we should just say this was when the couple were on holiday in the south of france are actually david linley's property so david linley is the how do we describe him with the king's cousin thank you so much hannah princess margaret's son and uh they were papped from a great great distance and uh the princess not only was topless but also i think smoking a couple of marble lights it's not against the law there's no shame in it and it was a grotesque invasion of privacy and although the british newspapers did not carry the images.

19:12They did appear in French media and then the couple sued, won damages, which I think they then gave to charity. But it was a big hullabaloo while you and I, Hannah, this was before your Royal Reporting time, I think, that we were going around trying to find orangutans and I don't know what else we were doing. I do remember that we all went into meltdown that day and we had to be quickly, we had no comms. We had to be transported from the rainforest to the nearest available hotel where we were literally like tapping on a keyboard like Kermit the Frog going complete steam coming out of our ears trying to file copy on William completely hitting the roof.

19:49The Queen knew that the Middletons were the backbone and were so important and I was told by one source, the late Queen, knew that the Middletons were the backbone and she rated Catherine from very, very early on. In fact, when William broke up with Catherine in 2007, Yes. Only for a couple of weeks. She, of course, hit the nightclubs in London with her friends and was in the papers. He was in the army camp in Dorset reading the papers or seeing the photos. Love it. He was the one who picked up the phone. Yes. She played the blinder. Yes, she did play the blinder.

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22:33it's a big contrast in your account of that tour then and the the australia tour that you opened the book with that you were also on harry and megan's tour and how that completely went in the opposite direction what have you sort of gathered about the influence that the wives have had on their husbands in their royal life you talk about camilla i think being bringing fun Yeah, laughter is really important, actually. I mean, all of them laugh except Charles and Diana didn't laugh that much, but they barely knew each other when they got married. That's a whole different story. Yeah, laughter with Camilla is, you know, there's the same sense of humor she has with Charles and you saw it with William and Catherine at the polo and various other events.

23:18The market in Fiji, which I, yeah, the book starts with that. That was so weird. It was such a weird engagement. Remind us of the tour. The year of the tour was? 2018. So they. 2018. So this is post-marriage. They get married in the May. They go away in the autumn. Yeah. It's all bells and whistles. And she's in a very early stages of pregnancy. They announced a pregnancy at the very beginning of the tour as well. At someone's wedding? She went to Eugenie's or Biff's. So the whole family at Eugenie's wedding. And then they announced it, if you remember, with that phone call. That's right, yeah.

23:51Phone on the table at the press briefing at the beginning of the tour. There was one day in the whole tour. So they're going Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga, a huge tour. They were absolutely brilliant. I think the tour actually went really well. The Australian leg was flawless, wasn't it, from memory? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the crowds were incredible. And then we got to Fiji. So there was one day in the whole tour schedule, which was Megan's Day. We were always told this is Megan's Day. So it's female empowerment, girls' education, women entrepreneurs, all the rest of it. I was covering the engagement at the market, which, yes, it was hot, but it wasn't chaotic.

24:27It was a very organised route, as you both know, for the Royal Tour. Were you standing behind a rope somewhere with a note? I was standing behind a rope. Simon, yes. Yes, I was. Everybody was standing behind a rope, weren't they? They'd cordoned off the walkways completely. Were you at that one? I wasn't at it because it was very close. I was on the tour, but I wasn't on the pool. so just to explain the pool is a little so the tour everyone goes on tour and then for each engagement because you can't have every journalist from every media outlet on engagements following royals around it's too crowded you basically have somebody from broadcast somebody from print a color photographer which is magazine a black and white photographer which is press and they do a little pool and then they share all the material with the rest of the pack just to so for the just Just to show how the sausage is made, Simon.

25:11Thank you. Carry on. Beautifully done. So Channel 5 was a TV pull for this one. And my cameraman, Rui, was, you know, they walked through the route. He's going to go to this stall, this stall, this stall, meet the ladies, the women entrepreneurs at the end. It was going to last about half an hour, 40 minutes. Megan arrives with a small entourage. They go in and within about five, six minutes, something happens. The mood changes. She's meeting people. It's all fine. Then we catch on camera. She says to one of her aides something, who has just this total look of shock and worry and despair. And then Meghan's rushed through the rest of the route.

25:50Rui, my cameraman, is now reversing at great speed. I'm hanging on to him, trying to so he doesn't get knocked over. Get back, get back. And rushing towards the cars. This poor lady who's been standing there for two hours with these fans, with Harry and Meghan on, you know her big moment to meet the duchess goes resumes right past her and into the cars and they're gone and there are royal there's one member of the staff who's in tears at the end of this because it's just gone disastrously wrong how a royal engagement is not meant to happen very rarely happens so all sorts of they're spinning about three different stories afterwards um kensington palace you know which didn't feel well it was a security issue blah blah blah but But there was also, and certainly the security issues is what Team Sussex have said and have always said, it was a security issue.

26:37My issue with that is if it was a security issue, she would never have arrived in the first place. You know, there's an advanced party there who would have, but it wasn't chaotic. It wasn't people crowding in. It wasn't like that. There was a United Nations charity there, UN Women. So that's one of the theories that, you know, she used to do work for UN Women. then she fell out with UN women and she didn't like the branding that was there. I'm sorry, I'm just laughing at the notion of her being there to champion women's empowerment. She leaves an engagement because she's had an argument with some of the birds involved.

27:10Yeah, she fell out with the United Nations. Allegedly, allegedly. But their line is that it was security and I'm not the wiser, but it was a really weird engagement. Did you get any inkling of what was uttered between Meghan and the aide? Oh, we're going. We're going. We're off. Yeah. And yeah, the camera wasn't close enough to pick that up, but you could see the look on her face. And it was, you know, it lasted about seven minutes. So a lot of people who had been waiting for ages to meet her didn't meet her. But it really changed the trip, didn't it? It really changed the feeling. And Harry's kind of, this idea that William was vibrating with anger on a previous tour, it was very similar for him, but we didn't quite manage to salvage it in the same way.

27:58No, no. I mean, we were out in a media pen, a fixed point in Fiji, in the baking heat, stuck there for two hours for this endless ceremony that was going on. He was sitting in the shade staring daggers at us, wasn't he? Oh, like it was all the media's hold. He was in the shade. Yeah. But we were melting. That's so difficult. Yeah. Can you please, because we're going to get onto this in a minute, We're going to discuss our rules of royal reporting. But I appreciate that people think that royal correspondents are just there with their notebooks, you know, being voyeurs and commenting on the shade of nude of the high heel being worn by the female royal in attendance.

28:37And to an extent it is that. It is a little bit more than that as well. and this idea that we're living this life of luxury. Some of the transport that we have to take and being locked down for hours in advance when they get chauffeur-driven to the engagement, not a hair out of place, and then whisked away in air conditioning and we're there like, is there a sandwich? No. Is there a toilet? No. How long are we going to be here? Oh, it could be any time at all. Oh, okay, great. We'll just hang out then if nobody minds. So to then have daggers. I mean, but he's so strange, Prince Harry. You could go on jobs with him and he would be all over you like a rash.

29:16When I broke the story of Harry and Meghan being together, 2016, I then had to go to the Caribbean with him and I thought, God almighty, I'm going to get so much flack here because he wouldn't have liked me invading his privacy on that story. Now, subsequently, it came out with a statement because people had behaved badly to Doria Raglan, who is her mother, Meghan's mother, and there were some unsavoury headlines and all the rest of it, you know, straight out of Compton and all that jazz. Yeah. And I thought, God, I'm probably going to be tarred with that brush. I don't know why. Do you remember that tour?

29:50You were with me. It was Barbados and things. He was all over me like a rash. Come and meet Rihanna. Come and have a look. Come and talk to me about the dangers of palm oil. I'm like, what? Okay, fine. I'm not, I haven't been put in the bad books. But then at other occasions, he'd storm down to the back of the plane and tell us we're all morons. I mean, it's weird, isn't it? What's your analysis of his relationship with journalists? They're fine if they give him positive publicity, but not if they give him negative. Well, he was obviously going office, and then he met Meghan, and it really, really went office.

30:25And family friends, Elton John, persuaded him to launch the legal action, which, of course, he was part of against the media many, many years later. Yeah, I mean, he was great. those early tours he was absolutely fantastic to to uh talk to i do remember one reception where i think you were in the little group where he told us that he read the below the line comments on the mail online online and we're all saying don't do that i mean that's a really bad idea i think um you know he talks about racism obviously you know they allege racism by the british media but I think he includes what's happening in online comments and social media as well.

31:05He sort of lumps it all together. I remember another one. Do you remember when we were at the one where he had got into trouble for going out to Spain and hunting wild bull? Yes. And he was standing and lecturing us about the difference between hunting and poaching. And I said in that circle, not sure about that, Your Royal Highness. I think you're on very, very shaky ground if you're going to start preaching to others about wildlife conservation. having blasted a load of animals off the Spanish skyline. And he was like, well, that's your view if you want to have it. I mean, we've been in many little horseshoes together, haven't we, Simon?

31:43We have. Where we've nodded and grinned and I've been largely told to F off. Hannah, shall we discuss our five rules of Royal Reporting? I'm going to start. OK, I know this looks self-indulgent, but it's a funny old world we occupy. I mean, we've been on like, do you remember that flight we took to Yellowknife? Oh. God, that was back in my drinking days. Do you remember how drunk I got in Yellowknife? I missed Yellowknife. I had to be rescued by Gordon Rayner down in the newsroom. I was in all sorts of trouble. Rescued from where? Some dive bar somewhere. And then I was trying to get in the back of someone's Jeep.

32:18And Gordon very sensibly was going, come on, I don't think this is a good idea. Can I just caveat by saying this was before children. This is when I was less responsible than I then went on to be, having been teetotal now for 15 years. But the first rule of Royal Reporting is, in my mind, and I want you to follow up with a good one, if you see a toilet, use the toilet. Yes, that's a good one. Because you could be behind a rope literally for days with no access to public facilities. So that's my first rule of Royal Reporting. Never miss the bus. Yes, that's a good one. I've seen it happen, especially in the modern world.

32:56People are doing videos. I've seen somebody doing a kind of selfie video as the bus. Yes. Driven straight up. That bus will not come back for you. No. Well, I know I've been left in a bus shelter in Auckland as it left editing my piece because the photographers, once the photographer has done their thing, they're all piling on the bus going, go, go, go. Yes, because they want to get to the next thing. We're trying to do interviews and pieces to camera and stuff or indeed edit our pieces. Or actually interview somebody. Or interview somebody. I've been, yeah. I mean, I've edited in gutters on the side of the road.

33:26In bus shelters and the bus goes off. But it's a very good rule that. Believe most of what you're being told by the official sources. But, yeah, you get the truth, but you don't get the whole truth sometimes. Yes, that's very true. You get a version of the truth. Oh, we've got another one coming. We've got three so far, Hannah. If you're asking a difficult question, always try and see them or hear them. don't do it in writing because you'll just get the spin but you'll be able to hear a tone yeah or you'll see a flicker on somebody's face that will tell you much more yeah about what's actually going on or it's the pause hi it's camilla from the telegraph i've got a story that we're running tomorrow saying x y and z yeah right can you envisage the headline on this piece i think it's going to say something like right and then there's can i just get back to you need to make a couple of calls and then you know you're onto something if it's this is absolutely ridiculous yeah very good simon you can think of another one i'm sure well you started all right i'm going to give you two more if you can eat eat yes how many times have we been locked remember the white house We were there literally, it seemed like three days before the Queen had even landed in the UK.

34:52Sniffer dogs in our handbags across all of our equipment, people talking into their cuffs. Sorry, somebody British, typically British, said, sorry, is everyone going to be serving any tea or sandwiches at any point? Probably Nick Whitchell or something. American glare. Absolutely not. So always eat when you can eat. Yeah. Come on, there's a basic one. Wear the right shoes. Comfortable black shoes. Two pairs of shoes if you're a woman. Comfortable shoes and smart shoes. Absolutely so. I'm going to stick up for the royals here. Having told your story about Harry glaring at us in the sun, not all royals are the same.

35:30So Camilla, who was then Duchess of Cornwall, I remember staring at us in the middle of a field in Nigeria in unbelievable heat, saw the pale vision in front of her looking like she was going to wilt and plucked us all to the shade and gave us some water. Really? Yes. Again, that's your ginger superpower, having a huge effect on this family where gingers are, let's be honest, overrepresented. I actually don't have it on me right now because I've broken my own rule, but gentlemen should always have a black tie. Ah, that's a very good point. Which is, sorry to bring the mood down. Yeah, thanks, Simon.

36:06We're having such good fun talking about the frippery of all year. And I don't think I'm going to need it for a few years. No, thank goodness. But I've certainly, you know, you never know where you're going to be when the announcement happens. And although for Her Late Majesty, I was in the studio then. But yes, always have a black tie because we know, you know, when the Queen Mother died and, you know, there were BBC newsreaders getting slated for... Being in navy blue or Jurgundy, yeah, exactly. Because it was some sort of Republican, you know, comment. Let's finish on a positive note. Simon Veigar share with us your funniest royal encounter or funniest thing that's ever happened to you on a job bar being abandoned in Auckland and I mean we were in Cuba together that was fun wasn't it?

36:52Oh yeah yeah that was that was a great great tour wasn't it? That was genuinely historic that one Yes it was It was it was very hard to speak to local people though and get you know We were getting quite a lot of propaganda weren't we? They couldn't speak freely. And in the crowds with us, there were plainclothes people keeping an eye on it all. Yeah, this was the king and queen in Cuba. That must have been the last royal tour I probably did before I entered the political fray. Yes. And you did that as a favour to me. Did I? Yes, it was one of your great moments of friendship. I'll go to Cuba for a few days.

37:29Call this work. Did I? Oh, good. You did, because it was the land of Zika. And I was pregnant, but I hadn't told anyone. that's right and i'd said i had i didn't even tell you and i said oh would you would you be free to do the cube trip and he just sort of went yeah not in a wink i long long time ago when i was uh so the funniest funniest story was the things you end up saying live on air when you haven't really prepared for or couldn't prepare for something so i was actually i wasn't a royal reporter i was at this point i was a sailing commentator down at cows week when prince philip used to compete there and in the years after he he would uh still come up to the royal squadron because it was his club and he would see what was going on.

38:10So I was commentating live on air, probably the Seaview Mermaids, a very great class, and somebody from the squadron just brings Prince Philip down to stand right next to me. They put the microphone in his hand and I'm sort of commentating on this very exciting yacht race, which he's also watching. And, you know, I'm now interviewing Prince Philip without any prior warning at all. Oh, my God. Because his friend from the squadron has just put a mic in his hand. And all I can think of saying is, well, you meet all sorts of people. You're joking. And he went, but actually the chat was really, really good.

38:48He was, it was just about sailing, you understand. He was very passionate about it. Extremely knowledgeable. And didn't he also subsequently continue going to Cow's Week? Because that was the week that Fergie used to visit the Queen at Balmoral. Right, probably, yeah. Remember somebody said that to me, he goes, if she's at Balmoral, well, he'll be on the Isle of Wight. And I thought... When he competed, they used to put the Royal Yacht Britannia right in front of cows in the Solent there. And one race, he did something wrong in the race. Somebody protested him in the race, but it was overturned.

39:18So he won the race or something. And our headline that day was Britannia waives the rules. Oh, hello. Hey, you lost on broadcasting. Do you want a job down here? We can ask one of the subs. We'll ask the chief sub if you can be a headline writer. Simon Bygar your book The Four Wives of Windsor I mean it's endorsed by somebody who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about but we shouldn't let that put people off it's out now and it's revelatory and we thank you very much for your expertise and wisdom and insights on the royalty today thank you thank you very much for having me

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