Trump Throws Down At The U.N. (Ep. 2601)

28:41The United States and borders, okay? We are not meant to integrate 20 million new people into a society overnight like Joe Biden wanted. It's not happening, okay? It's not happening. This problem is happening all over the world. And it has global politics in disarray. Everywhere from Germany to Italy to France, all over the world. Here's Donald Trump at the UN, torching the UN, telling them, Hey, fellas, ladies, you better get your crap together here because you're contributing to the problem yourselves. Check this out. It's deeply ironic that the United Nations has an entire institution, the UNESCO group of people and countries devoted to protecting cultural heritage.

29:24Yet with their ceaseless promotion of mass migration, these globalists are actively destroying the greatest cultures and most extraordinary heritage in all of history. They talk, it's so true. UNESCO in the UN talks about, you know, culture and cultural appropriation like this DEI of cultures are all valuable. No, no. Ladies and gentlemen, listen, can we just scrap that, throw that in the garbage right now? There are some cultural practices that are not valuable at all. And you should say that. Notice I didn't say you should be able to say that. That's built in. You should say that. Cultural practices like Child labor Cultural practices like Subjugating women Cultural practices like Chewing on cot products Drug products all day and being high 90 % of the time Is not a valuable productive behavior Just say it We do not want Mass migration From places where these cultural habits, practices, whatever the hell you want to call them, come here.

30:38We don't want them. You can say that. You are a productive citizen of whatever. France, Ghana, I don't care. You want to come here? There's an immigration process. Go through it. If we think you can contribute, we'll give you a look-see. It's like draft picks. We want a better football team, correct? You want someone in your locker room that always talks about losing, who brings drugs into the locker room or crime? You don't. Why would you want it in your country? Why is any of this even remotely controversial on the left? The answer is it's not. The answer is it's not. They're nihilist by nature.

31:20And one of the quickest ways to destroy the fabric of a country is, in fact, mass migration. and thankfully Donald Trump who's not afraid of stupid media labels you're a xenophobia he's like we've heard it all before bro package it up and shove it he doesn't care he went to the UN and right to their face told them you keep talking about culture you're the ones destroying it through mass migration thank you have a nice day one more clip from yesterday it's a quick one I'm just going to throw this out there too to the current leadership of Cuba. You've been in our backyard for a long time causing a lot of problems.

32:02I am a resident of Florida. I have been for over a decade now. You go down to South Florida, ladies and gentlemen, there are a lot of one issue voters down there, Venezuelans and Cubans, and this is it. They care about everything else, but they vote on this Cuba issue. This is a real problem. Donald Trump has repeatedly warned the Cuban leadership, I'm not leaving this problem for the next president you don't have to like it you may say oh we're just going to leave that's okay I'm just telling you you're betting against this guy if you're in the Cuban leadership you're making a big mistake he's not kicking the can down the road whatever dopey cliche is out there here he is again warning the Cuban leadership not in our backyard not on my watch check this out administration is also seeking a fundamental change and the situation in Cuba where the communist regime is under great pressure, the biggest pressure they've ever been under.

32:58It's an absolutely failed state. It's failing like never before, and it will fall. Marco Rubio is handling a negotiation. He's deep into negotiations with Cuba. Let's see what happens. We'll not allow a haven for foreign adversaries to threaten America on our own doorstep. It's right at our doorstep. The Cuban regime has also spent decades coordinating with the left-wing radicals and communist networks here in the United States. I love this in the chat. Sorry, I told you I have a little ADHD. I love when people in the chat, in the live chat, you ever see this, Justin? Tell us how they don't watch the show anymore.

33:41You're in the live chat. The doomers? I don't listen to the show. You're in the life. You're in the chat. We get this all the time. Remember, we'll get them next month. And the show's like, what will we, number four in Triton in the country podcast? We'll definitely get them next month.

34:02I'm never watching again. You said that yesterday. Aren't you the same guy who emailed us yesterday? Motley's laughing at that guy. Motley's in the chat. I'm not watching this dumb show. You're in the chat room. bro listen seriously back to the topic Cuba I'm going to move on quick I'm just telling you don't toy with this guy he is not we'll say fooling around there's another F word I'd like to he's not I'm not telling you you have to agree with it you may be an isolationist or I don't even mean that in a negative way you may say I don't want anything to do with Cuba fair enough I allowed your opinion you are a citizen of a free republic I'm telling you, this guy is going to fix generational problems in the Middle East and in our backyard.

34:51And he ain't leaving office without fixing it. On the do not toy with us narrative timeline here, I saw this tweet up from Melissa Chen yesterday. And it reminded me that you should be very cautious around the world with this America's heyday is over. China's now going to be a hegemonic power going forward. America's finished. Folks, we've been told this for 250 years of freedom. You see the shirt I'm wearing today, 1776. We've been told this over and over again. Weapons shortages. We're all in trouble. We're all going to die, Reverend Cain style. Really? Read this tweet. Melissa Chen, pretty cool that General Motors was able to retool a car factory to make the outer shells of the Patriot missiles.

35:43They managed to make the delivery to Lockheed just 22 days after signing the contract. 22 days, exclamation points. Lockheed says this works normally, this usually takes months or years for the previous supplier to fulfill. There's a strain of neoliberal thinking that says if domestic car makers can't compete, they should just be allowed to fail. No bailouts, just let Japan or China make cars because of comparative advantage or whatever. Imagine if we believed that automobile manufacturing with something to offshore. It's now clear that the argument for preserving the industrial base is not simply nostalgia for a previous bygone era.

36:18It simply is the case that you can't improvise precision manufacturing overnight once it's disappeared. Folks, I'm going to throw myself under the bus here because unlike some other shows who always tell you they're always right, I am not right about everything all the time. I have no special superpowers. I was one of these guys who was kind of an absolute free trader. That if someone else can make something overseas cheaper, that we should almost always, outside of national defense, take that option. I'm not telling you that's not a good guiding principle now. It is. We don't want to be making rubber dog toys here.

37:03If we can get them cheaper from China, why would we make them more expensive here? People can do it. We're Americans. We can build other stuff. but I am going to tell you I definitely took that a little too far. An industrial base that can create high-tech manufacturing, precision manufacturing, like Melissa Chen just said, antibiotics and valuable medications. Folks, I don't care if China can produce it cheaper. I've completely changed my view. It's not new. I mean, my view changed probably six, seven years ago, and I've said that on the show. We have got to build stuff here because precision manufacturing is an existential crisis in the event of some world war scenario or massive cyber attack where we need to rebuild transformers and things like that quickly.

37:51Do not toy with us. When the United States needs to build something, Patriot missiles or others, they will find a way to do it and quick because we're not dying first, you're going to die first. and i'm just not going back folks i'm not going back to the uh to the days of democrat leadership in the biden obama era with sub three percent gdp growth open borders defund the police police you know build large mansions also known as black lives matter we're not protesting the street do you remember those days again some of that happened to try to overthrow the trump administration but Do you remember that in these chaotic blue cities, the chop zone?

38:33We're just going to basically let it burn. No, we're not going back to that. We are not going back to that. We're not going back to open borders, 9 % inflation, military castration. We're not doing it. We have a choice coming up, and you have to paint the contrast to your friends that may be on the fence. Again, don't get mad at them. I'm not saying you're doing this. Don't lecture them. Some Republican politicos, a few, not many, but they're, you know, you guys don't know. That's a terrible approach. Listen to them, hear them out, but say to them, I understand. I understand Republicans may not solve all your problems, but the cause of your problems are unquestionably Democrats.

39:16Over 80 % of the inflation you see cooked into your household budget right now was caused by Joe Biden and his economic policies of spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, and just disregard any consequences. That's just a fact. Folks, you have a choice coming up. And I wanted to get to this yesterday, but one of the most powerful things I can tell you is for all the problems the Republican Party has, and we do, we have problems like anyone else, at least the Republicans run on an agenda they're willing to back up and they're not generally going to lie to you. I say that because there's a couple chuckleheads out there who will lie to you all the time who claim our Republican banner.

39:59But in general, what the MAGA movement said it was going to do, receipts and coming, right? What the MAGA movement said it was going to do for you, it did. It did. They were going to make your streets safer. They were going to shut the border. And they were going to bring manufacturing, just like that Melissa Chen tweet, back to the United States. You may not agree with the tariff policy. I don't agree with all of it. However, one of the consequences of that was a reshoring of manufacturing capabilities. The numbers are right there. You can look them up yourself. We put them on the show a thousand times.

40:33The problem with the other side is they lie to you about everything. They tell you they hate school choice, that they just want kids in crappy public schools, but they don't send their own kids there. They tell you how much of the Affordable Care Act is affordable while simultaneously shutting down the government because the Affordable Care Act, it turns out, is not affordable and the Democrats need basically trillions more dollars over decades to support what was supposed to be the affordable care act. They freaking lie to you all the time. We're only going to tax the millionaires and billionaires.

41:10Do you see that story in the Wall Street Journal the other day? They had a millionaire's tax on new housing construction. All the liberals in Los Angeles were like, get them, get those, hang them in effigy, those rich bastards. Get them. And what happened? well, some of these multi-million dollar millionaire homes were really apartment buildings built for middle class families. That never got built. So rents went up. And who got screwed? The middle class. They lie to you all the time. At least Trump tells you straight, hey, if I have to bomb Iran before the midterms, it's not politically great for me.

41:51I understand that. I'm not letting him get us first. Then we're not getting dead first. At least he's honest.

41:59This was put up the Wall Street Journal thing. This is Nicole Hannah-Jones. If you haven't seen this story, it's been covered a lot. But I want to cover it from this angle here. Nicole Hannah-Jones is a far left radical. She wrote the 1619 Project, a largely debunked and discredited history of the United States, stating like the United States is slavery is the only thing that really matters. Folks, slavery was a stain on our history. It is not the only thing that matters when you're gauging the history of the United States. OK, the project, the 1619 Project was a clown show. Nicole Hannah Jones, who is one of these far left liberals, sent her kid to a crappy public school because she was like, wow, you know, I got to practice what I preach here.

42:42Well, what happened? Finally, you get a liberal who does what she said she's going to do. Her child apparently grew agitated. and it's covered by James Freeman in the Wall Street Journal, and said to her mom, you know what I'm talking about when she asked her mom, hey mom, did you knowingly send me to a bad school? The child says, we looked up our school. We saw the test scores. We saw the ratings. The child ticked off the school's below state average reading and math scores and ranked poorly on a popular school rating website. I said I was aware of her school's academic rankings, Nicole Hannah-Jones, right?

43:17But that the test scores alone do not define a school. Ladies and gentlemen, we're getting back to this crap again, where you see these people lying to you all the time. They lie to you and they even lie to themselves and their own kids sometimes when they practice this pernicious ideology. The most powerful line in Nicole Hannah-Jones' piece is the child saying, Mom, did you know you sent me to a bad school? And the answer is yes. And they want to send your kid to a bad school too. That's how crazy this contrast is in this upcoming election. Do you want these people in charge? Do you want these people in charge?

43:59You know, Sonny Hostin from The View. I used to know Sonny. She had, she was somewhat reasonable back. She's now gone completely crazy on The View. Here she is. Apparently, I don't know. She's never been to high school where there are mean girls. She sends her kid to this, you know, white, her characterization of it, you know, wealthy school because again at least like all nicole hannah jones like to follow through and screwed over her own family too hey she believes in it so much she's willing to sabotage her own kids livelihood sonny's not sonny's a big believer in the public school system except her kid goes to a largely white school listen to her characterization big racist place they called her butter face butter face this is her line not mine have you ever been to high school she's claiming oh it's racist and all this but then she says the kid did very well have you filed incident report, Sonny?

44:47Have you called the police about these civil rights violations? You cannot have these people in charge, folks. And then she says that there's a big funding difference between largely black schools and largely white schools. Really? Well, we looked that up. That's not true either. They always lie to you. Check this out. I sent my children to private schools, a predominantly white private school. And so while they didn't suffer academically, They excelled. It was a well-funded school, a private school, well-resourced school. They suffered a different type of pain. There was psychological trauma.

45:24There was racism that they experienced. They were bullied. There was trauma around their identity. My daughter wears a big Afro. Kids were trying to stick pencils in her hair. Boys were calling her butter face, meaning she looked good but her face. And she's a beautiful girl. So so she struggled. My kids struggled in a predominantly white environment, but they did not struggle academically. So I think the real question here is nationally, schools and predominantly non-white districts receive twenty three billion dollars less in annual funding than their white counterparts. Underfunded schools versus well-funded schools.

46:06Folks, do you want these lunatics in charge? Sonny, if you're claiming there was some big racist incident, go file some police report or whatever. Because I guarantee you what they investigated, they're going to find out that that stuff happens in high school.

46:26Butterfield, have you never heard that expression before? Everything's great, Butterfield. You've never heard that before? Did you have to have that explained to you the first time you heard it? folks she throws out a big assertion there she says oh my kid excelled in this largely white school yeah racist everybody right how'd she excel and then she says you know there's this discrimination going on money really folks i just put it in chat gpt you can look it up yourself is there a national funding difference from primarily minority public schools versus largely white public schools an urban institute analysis found that most states black students attended schools with higher, higher, higher average school level expenditures than white students within the large districts it studied.

47:13Only seven states showed higher average school spending for white students and black students. There it is, right there. You can see it yourself. They just make this stuff up. They lie to you all the time. New York City spends about$40 ,000 per student. Now, where would she get that from? Because this is what they do. They take a nugget of information and then they lie to you. So, ChatGPT notes a more accurate summary is predominantly minority districts receive less state and local funding nationally on average. But it's not true that every predominantly minority individual school receives less money than a predominantly white school because you're factoring out other funding factors.

47:57That's what they do. They lie to you all the time. Folks, you have a choice coming up. President Trump, who throws down at the UN, tells you politically unpopular things, but at least he tells the truth so you know what you're voting for or the liberal media and the liberal progressive commie class that lies to you about everything. Remember when we heard about the Affordable Care Act, otherwise known as Obamacare, how it was going to be more affordable, no one's plan was going to be canceled, and none of that turned out to be true? It's turned out to be the explosion. I can't, you know, I never mock or downplay the concerns of our voters.

48:35But mocking liberals is easy. Liberals complaining about health care. This is my number one issue. You know, I'm Johnny Greenhair going into the election. Health care is my number one issue, the cost of health care. You understand Obamacare is the law, right? It was actually called the Affordable Care Act. Do you think it's not called the TCA, the Trump Care Act, or the McCain Care Act, or the Romney Care Act. It's the Affordable Care Act named Obamacare. Your bill sucks. And now we find out yesterday, thanks to the government, the Trump government's work on fraud, that there's something like 750 ,000, 760 ,000, I'm sorry, 760 ,000 people fraudulently enrolled in Obamacare costing us billions of dollars a year.

49:24I thought this was painted as something, you know, this was the Mount Olympus of healthcare legislative proposals. The affordable care is going to be cheaper. Nobody's plan is going to be canceled. Everybody's going to get high quality healthcare. None of that, none of that's happening. They lie to you all the time. some of the people on Obamacare fraudulently didn't even know they were on Obamacare.

49:48Folks, this republic, this beautiful republic we have is based on mutual trust. And I don't mean like that in a trust me bro way. I mean it chronologically over time. If trust in institutions completely collapses, even when the good guys are in charge folks you don't have a republic i think that's pretty self-evident you cannot have a republic based on basically a piece of paper parchment the constitution if nobody believes in it you can't have a treehouse with treehouse rules with your friends if nobody pays attention to the rules you don't have a club then you have a suggestion and the constitution was never meant to be a suggestion I say that because we're in a really dangerous place and this is where I see the most damage being done by the black pill doomer crowd liberal media commie symbiosis they're all in the same tent the nihilistic tent where they want to destroy this whole thing it reminds me of that tool song one great big festering neon distraction I have a suggestion to keep you all occupied like learn to swim you know They want to just destroy the whole thing I am not a nihilist folks I want to conserve the good parts of the republic And throw away the bad ones And one of the best components of our legal system Which is flawed But the least flawed of systems around the world Is trial by jury Folks This Lindsay Clancy Post mistrial debacle Is going to absolutely decimate The Americans faith in the American's faith in the legal system if this continues.

51:34What happened? Jonathan Turley, who's a very good legal analyst on Fox, have you seen what this poor guy, he is the one lone, he's male and black, which surprised liberals, and he was the one holdout who wanted to get a guilty verdict for Lindsay Clancy. For those of you who missed the trial, it was a subject in the news, killed her three children. This guy said, I'm looking for basically a guilty verdict or some kind of verdict that implies guilt. 11 others wanted to let her off by a reason of insanity or others. He's on a jury. It is a public service. Now it turns out that, here's Jonathan Turley's blog, quote, defense attorney Kevin Reddington, Kevin Reddington, this is Clancy's attorney, appears to be moving from zealous advocacy to virtual stalking in the Lindsay Clancy case.

52:24Reddington is seeking phone records, surveillance and criminal records of, I don't know how to mention his name, but the now unidentified juror, now identified juror who held out in the 11 to one hung jury decision. We're now doxing these guys? Folks, this is a bigger issue than a Lindsey Clancy case. This is about the future of the Republic. Who the hell is going to serve on a jury right now? This is why I posted this on X the other day. Gosh, please, man, read what I posted the other day. We have got to stop this mob mentality where people don't get due process. Good guys or bad guys, it doesn't matter.

53:12Where people don't get due process and people try. I'm not telling you not to have an opinion. Okay, stop right there. On Twitter about any case. But intimidating people, doxing people, doxing innocent people, falsely defaming people on X, creating like a public safety crisis. no one's going to want to serve on a jury anymore. How are you going to have a republic where the average guy who would give an unbiased opinion is like, I don't want anything to do with this because if I don't agree with the liberal Karens on this jury, I'm going to get doxxed too. Fired from my job, crazy showing up at my house.

53:48Folks, this Clancy thing is insane.

53:54It's not just that. When I talk about a republic being built on mutual trust, there has to be an element of trust, folks. The Constitution does not have tentacles to go out and grab you if you violate it. If we don't believe in the document, the whole thing falls apart and you have anarchy. We have due process provisions in the Constitution written in there, in our Bill of Rights. part of due process is not having a jury full of liberal karens they're doing this on purpose because they want mob rule on x and twitter and tiktok that's what they want this is not an accident you know also i was a big proponent of the save act so were many of you it's the one yes i agree with you failure we couldn't get through i wish they would have would have changed the whole electoral dynamic.

54:50I'm not telling you to vote Democrat because of it. I'm just telling you it would have changed the entire electoral dynamic in the midterms. They didn't get it done. The republic, if we don't have a jury system, will collapse. The republic, if we don't believe the outcome of elections, will collapse too. And I want to show something to you. I don't typically make, you know this, if you've been here a while, you know it. But if you're new to the show, I don't like making the show about me. But I think in some cases, it's important to prove bona fides because I got a lot of people out there who just are just generally envious of this show and they hate this show that they don't understand like I've been through these fights like I've done what you only talk about when Twitter was banning people I was the first pool of people that were blacklisted look it up when YouTube and Google ads were banning people I was banned when it came to running for office and standing up for stuff in a blue state.

55:44I did it. So when it comes to election security and integrity, I don't know if many of you know this. There were some of those issues in my election. I want to show you why I'm bringing this up first. A really shocking new report, not shocking to you, but shocking that the left-wing media is actually covering this by Reuters came out yesterday. It's this. This is just stunning. 30 ,000 mistakes how red and blue states added non-citizens to the voter rolls September 23rd 2026, Reuters a lot of you in the chat, right are saying, hello Captain Obvious we've been warning about this for years I know to liberals out there whether it's the SAVE Act or some other iteration that's going forward I'm telling you right now, you're not going to have a republic either if people entirely lose faith in elections.

56:39Well, Dan, what have you done? Okay, I'll show you. A lot of you don't know this. I ran for Congress in Maryland District 6. Finished closer than anyone's ever finished in that district. I lost that race by only 2 ,000 votes, one percentage point. And on election day, we actually won the voter count on election day. Here's the old CBS News from 2014. Rep Delaney beats Bongino in Maryland's 6th congressional district Well I was informed by someone That although we lost by about 2 ,000 votes That there were about 10 ,000 to 15 ,000 people Who were registered to vote on the voter rolls at the time Who shouldn't have been there Who claimed they were non-citizens when summoned for jury duty CBS notes Bongino raised the possibility That it was a civil lawsuit We didn't file it, someone else did Bongino raised the possibility a pending civil lawsuit alleging voter fraud could affect the outcome of the race.

57:32The lawsuit filed by activists in Baltimore contends they found evidence of non-U.S. citizens registered to vote in Frederick County and asserts the same situation exists statewide. Now do you know why I'm so passionate about this? Here was from the Maryland Daily Record. The State Board of Elections even, this is, I'm sorry, CBS. The State Board of Elections even acknowledged the possibility that some non-citizens have voted since state and local election boards have no system for verifying the citizenship of voter registration applicants. Why have I been fighting for this forever? Because this is freaking 2014 over 10 years ago when it affected me.

58:07I'm the Bongino in the CBS News headline.

58:14This is a snippet from the Daily Record taken from AI, another piece out there. They filed a federal lawsuit shortly before the election. They cross-referenced jury records, people who had said under penalty of perjury they were not US citizens, with voter registration records. The suit alleged some of those individuals remain registered and had voted in prior elections. It affected me. Now do you see why I openly mock the doomers and pillars green with envy over the show? What have you done? The answer is what have you done? This affected me. If we would have had more money and more volunteers, we didn't have a lot of money back then.

58:50We would have been able to take it further and we just didn't have the resources to do it. and the National Republican Party had bailed on the race. I was surprised we got that close. We had almost no help. The only one who helped us was Mike Lee and Rand Paul at the time. That was it. So please, spare me the lectures about, the reason I fight for this stuff is because I was involved too. There's no more skin in the game than your own personal race where this happens. All right, I got a great interview for you coming up. I really hope you stay tuned for this. Alex Epstein, he's a really great guy.

59:24author of a book, Fossil Futures. He is one of the best commentators about AI. And I know you're going to like this interview because we hit all, all of the top line points. Is the doom scenario going to happen? The gloom scenario? Is the utopia scenario going to happen? What about a universal basic income? Stay tuned for that. First, we always pick a comment of the day. How do you win the comment of the day? The comment of the day, once a week in the 1776 Club, we pick a winner out of our pool of five comments of the day from each weekday. You get$1 ,776. Why? Because we like to give away money.

59:59See official rules at Bongino.com slash 1776. Today's comment of the day is, you beat me to the punch there. Sandra Holman, one, two, three. Do you have a fresco on your shelf? I drank that as a teen 60 years ago. Do they still make that? Hold on. Stay tuned. Yes. Oh, I don't even need to leave. Okay. we plug back in yes uh sandra holman one two three for those of you who know the fresca joke that thing was sitting in the fridge was that andy one i don't even know it was there but yes and now it's on the shelf if you were there that day the fresca has not gone away and by the way the comment that we didn't couldn't stage that because we don't know the comment of the day until the end of the show so thank you sandra holman congrats on that we'll see where it works for the end of the week where we pick a winner all right i'm going to get to alex epstein in a minute quick break first.

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1:02:10welcoming to the show alex epstein he's the author of fossil future you should pick it up uh he's discussed a lot of topics i've seen him on x i think we've spoken before i always appreciate your commentary we have and and i i saw you on x on a video clip you know Everything's video clips these days. And I was like, wow, a guy who's using reason to digest the whole current debate about AI, who's not a doomer, but who's not into all the utopian fairy tales either. So I thought a fair way to address this is, let's get the bad news out of the way first, the doomer scenario. And some of this stuff may be valid warnings, and I don't disregard that.

1:02:47I'm just not a doom and gloom guy. But we've been told about artificial intelligence, Alex, that the bot swarms are gonna be out of control. control there's going to be massive attacks on everything from nuclear plants to industrial control systems to water supplies we're not going to be able to stop any of it uh china's going to beat us task management's going to be out of control they're not going to be able to stop doing a task because they have no morals even if they do things immorally uh i don't buy the doomer scenario i i appreciate the warnings however um what's your take on that what's a more realistic approach to this?

1:03:25So I think the first thing is we need to separate out different kinds of threats. One of the issues with the whole Doomer thing is they just try to get you scared about everything and they blend all sorts of different issues together. And when that happens, people feel very helpless, right? They feel fear, they feel helplessness, and then they feel submission, which I think is part of the goal of the Doomer scenarios is for people to say, hey, you're scared. You don't know what any of this stuff means. You don't know what recursive self-improvement means like you can't follow this. But we know.

1:03:56And even if there's a 10 % chance of everyone dying, like that's obviously way too much. So just put us in charge. So one thing to just capture about this Doomer scenario is they're not clearly laying out, okay, there's these three threats and here's how this one could work. And here's how this one could work. And here's how this one could work. They're just sort of blending it all together. So let's talk about the two basic threats. The two basic threats are deliberate harm using AI and then accidental harm using AI. So deliberate harm, which is a bad actor abusing a new technology that gives a new level of capability to harm us.

1:04:29This could be just China attacking us militarily using AI. That's a pretty straightforward thing. And so if you're talking about a bot swarm, it could be somebody trying to create a bot swarm deliberately. The other thing is accidental harm. So accidental harm is somebody's using AI to pursue maybe a good goal, but the AI inadvertently from the person's perspective does something bad. So for example, like there was a guy running an agent to get him into a gym and he said, hey, can you get me into this class? And then the agent, even though he didn't want to do this, got somebody else off the waiting list to put him near the top of the waiting list.

1:05:03He's like, well, I didn't want that, right? That was inadvertent. And so if you think in terms of deliberate harms and accidental harms, two things become clear. One is you can't solve this by reducing your capability because bad actors will get more capability, right? So the only way to deal with bad actors having this, cyber attackers, terrorists, et cetera, is the good people need to lead. So there's no such thing as, hey, we're going to regulate the hell out of this to be safe. Because you can't be safe because a loss of capability empowers the bad actors and endangers you. By the way, also with the accidents, deliberate attacks also lead to accidents.

1:05:41Like there's no reason somebody could be trying to hack into the gym, but then the agent could commit identity theft. Like even if they wanted to hack into the gym, you can have accidents on top of deliberate harm. So the question is, what do you do about this? But you obviously can't lose your capability, right? So what we really need to do is have the basic principle of liability, which is, hey, if you create something that does harm, then you are liable for this. And this is actually what a lot of the AI CEOs are afraid of. They don't want liability. They don't want a rights-based system where if you violate someone's rights or threaten them, you get punished.

1:06:14They want a permissions-based system where you do exactly what the government says to allegedly be safe, and then you're exempt from liability. So, yeah, we need to have the most capability to deal with the deliberate attacks, and we need liability to caution against accidental attacks. And then I would just finally add, the more capable we are with AI, the more we can control it. We can get into more depth into that. But there's a lot of ways to control these accidental attacks because AI is not this demon or God that has any interest or is trying to kill us. It's just a powerful tool that we need to control properly.

1:06:48That's a really great way to sum it up. I think I'll use that going forward. I'll footnote it to you. But the deliberate versus accidental and the product liability model we've had in the United States, you know, a lot of people would argue maybe it's gone too far. People can sue for anything. But there's no doubt. We need to do certain. Yeah, for sure. You're right. Like and I'm putting out a piece on this very soon on this issue. Yeah, we need to reform liability in multiple ways. It needs to expand in certain ways to accommodate. But also we need to stop its abuse by, you know, out of control lawyers for sure.

1:07:18Right. Right. But there's no there's simply no doubt. And again, that's a whole week. Me and you could do an entire show on liability laws and tort system, you know, arbitration versus, you know, the civil tort system. However, there's really no doubt it does have companies kind of hyper responsive to consumer needs and faults in their price. No doubt about no one wants to lose their company. You just don't. If you do, you're a darn fool. The CEO is going to get fired. Company is going to be out of business. The stock's going to get crushed. So we discussed kind of some of the contours of the doom and gloom scenario.

1:07:50And again, I don't in any way mean to downplay the very real risks of this product. It's no different than nuclear energy or electricity flight when it started. I get that. But on the other side, I tend to think positively about this technology. Human beings have always figured it out in the end. But the utopian scenario is very rosy. Not all of this stuff is going to happen right away. But even if we see a fraction of it, it could be a really incredible new world. Some of the stuff that may be very quickly in our pipeline. Cures for diseases that have just been intractable. Things like cancer, hepatitis, new medical technology, a couple other things.

1:08:30Agents just freeing up people's time. I'll put up a tweet on the screen now from a Peter Diamantes about how a couple hours a day freed up because agents are doing tasks you would have done. Those two hours, Alex, people could start a business. They could go see a kid's volleyball game. Some people are going to sit on the couch and do nothing. But even if 10 % of people get two hours a day back, that's 730 hours a year. Just a couple more quick ones. Advances in material sciences, superconductors for electricity, saving electricity costs, farming technology, water usage. I mean, even the liberal greenies who tell you the world's going to end.

1:09:06I know it's a topic you and I focused on in the past. Why would you not be interested in new energy technologies that will supposedly solve this problem? So there's an element of that. Even if 10 percent of that was to happen, it could be an incredible new world. Yes. So again, I think there's some clarity we can add here in terms of let's think about what does AI do. And this helps us think about both potential benefits and potential negatives. So really what AI is doing is it's like a mental work assistant. So it assists us with mental work and it does three basic types of assistance. One is it can teach us.

1:09:39So we can see if you use ChatGPT or Claude, it's very good at giving you a custom lesson on any topic that exists. As long as there's something it's not quite as good at, but in general, teaching knowledge and increasingly teaching skills, which is very important for the job issue, it's incredibly good at. It is also very, very good at advising people. So you have a specific situation that requires expert advice. It's very good at synthesizing a lot of expert advice and helping you with the situation. It could be a medical situation, it could be a legal situation, et cetera. And then the third thing, which is where a lot of the task stuff comes in, which it's not as good at yet, is doing.

1:10:15So actually performing certain things like write this essay for me. But if you just take the teaching and advising, one perspective is this is what rich people pay a ton of money for, right? They have custom teachers and custom advisors. You look at some of the leading medical clinics in the world. I know of one that charges 200 ,000, I'm not a client, by the way, I can't afford it, but $200 ,000 a patient, and they don't even see the people in person. So it's pure advice. So teaching and advice in particular are just unbelievably, unbelievably valuable. And we should be taking full advantage of that.

1:10:48And that can lead to lots and lots of amplification of our abilities. AI is amplified intelligence, not artificial intelligence. It depends on us for various reasons. It's not a replacement for us. And with the doing, I hope we get that faster than it's actually happening. I mean, I use a lot of AI. I have my own custom AI. I use this all the time. And AI is very good for what I do, which is mostly textual. Like the thing with AI, it's just like an employee. It's only worth the management cost if it can do the task at a level that meets or exceeds your expectations and you can handle the error profile.

1:11:21So if the errors are reversible, if you can recognize them and they're at a low enough rate, then yeah, AI can be pretty good at tasks. But what people are finding is you need to be really careful about that. Because if you just try to throw problems at AI, just like an incompetent employee, you just incur these huge management costs as well as paying for the thing in the form of tokens. And it's a disaster. So I'm optimistic very fundamentally about the teaching and advising. And I think it's getting better and better at doing. And for me, it can't come soon enough because most people are incredibly poor in terms of their access to mental work.

1:11:52Like if you know enough rich people, a lot of what they pay for is mental work. A lot of what they have at their disposal is mental work. And so for you to have a very capable mental assistant or mental assistance is going to make your life way better in ways that are hard for most people to imagine. That's really such a great point. We're talking to Alex Epstein, author of Fossil Future. Check it out. He discusses energy topics lately, AI. Alex, you mentioned reversibility. I think that's critical. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal last week about that, how it's probably not a good idea to give, say, AI full control of airplanes with no human pilots.

1:12:28One, people are just not going to be comfortable with that. They may be someday, but they're not right now. And the hard reality is without a human override and a human intermediary in the system, if the AI were to somehow make a faulty decision and you have a black swan event, there's no coming back from it. It's not reversible because you're dead and people don't want to be dead. So the reversibility component is key. But the productivity enhancements, even at a basic level from even first gen AI, and we're way beyond that now, are incredible. I'll give you a quick example from my show. Productivity, or the ability to obviously create stuff for the audience, products, GDP, what we call gross domestic product as a collective measure, is the ability to use either the same amount of inputs to produce more output, or to produce the same output with cheaper and less inputs.

1:13:15During our show, sometimes it'll take me seriously up to a half an hour or more to find an old article. I did it in today's show. I was looking for an article about my congressional election. It would have taken me an hour to find that. You would have had to scroll through 30 pages of Google to get to it. I just asked AI the question in, I don't know, a second or two. Everything came out right there, screenshot right on the screen. My producers use an AI agent to check over the ads, make sure the websites work, make sure the text is right and the spots. If it saves a half an hour to an hour a day, the cumulative effect over time allows you to produce the same or more output with far fewer inputs.

1:13:53And it doesn't cost me human jobs either, because I still need the guys in the end to kind of double check the work. Yeah, I think these are great examples. I mean, let me entertain for a second the utopian scenario in a certain sense. And you can think of this as AI assistants become omni-competent, as in they can do any kind of task that we do really, really well. Because people are afraid of that. I think that's nowhere near possible. I wish we got a lot closer to that than we will in the near future. But if AI is omnicompetent, basically what that means is everybody has the level of mental assistance at their disposal that Elon Musk does now, right?

1:14:28And so what happens when you have an enormous amount of mental assistance to the point that you're just unbelievably productive? What happens is you get to choose exactly what kind of work you want to do and how much. Elon says, I'm a volunteer. And that's very true. He doesn't not need to work to survive, but he can choose the work that he wants to do. And if we have omnicompetent AI, that means everyone can just choose how they want to work. They won't be bound by the need to provide for their survival. So if you want to become a self-sustaining farmer, AI is going to make that a lot easier.

1:14:57If you want to work five hours a week, if you want to work 50 hours a week, you can do whatever you want. People have a really fulfilling life doing voluntary work that's still creating value, even if they're not competing on the market. So this idea that we should be afraid of AI becoming omnicompetent, in a world, by the way, where people are incredibly poor. Like most people who make a million dollars a year don't think they make nearly enough money and they have way more uses for it. But that's 50 times the purchasing power of the average person around the world. AI has barely made a dent in GDP.

1:15:28Like what are we talking about that we're afraid that it's gonna make us too productive? People have no idea that if it makes us all productive, then we have so much choice over our life, including choice over the most meaningful work and how much time we wanna spend on that versus other things. I'm talking to Alex Epstein, author of the book Fossil Future. Alex, I know you're a big advocate for political freedom and liberty, obviously. But I think one of the effects of AI that's not discussed enough, and we're going to discuss it right now, is the potential effect it has on totalitarianism around the world.

1:16:02If functioning AI tells the truth, which is the only way for an AI, you give it bad input, you're going to get crap output and the AI is going to be useless. I know you see where I'm going with this with China. China has a real problem on its hands. I think the China argument has been framed completely incorrectly by people. Oh, China is just going to go for broke. No, they're not. I promise you. China did not go for broke with the internet. They had the Great Wall firewall to prevent people from seeking the truth. China has a bigger problem than the United States. which is if artificial intelligence starts answering questions to the average Chinese citizen about Tiananmen Square and the hundreds of millions of dead in the Holodomor and other effects of socialism, China's got a real problem.

1:16:45AI could do real significant damage to propaganda-based totalitarianism around the world if it's allowed to flourish correctly. I think it's a great argument. I hadn't thought about that much, but that's a really great argument. I mean, in general, you just need to think about, so yeah, AI functions much, much better when it's programmed well. And if you compare like AI's objectivity, so to speak, with the mainstream media or the right-wing media or the left-wing media, it's miles ahead of all those other things. I mean, it's so much better. If you ask ChatGPT about the news versus you look at Fox or CNN or something, it's way better than everything at this point already, even with whatever biases it has in there.

1:17:27And in part, because to function really well, it has to, in certain ways, adhere to reality. And so by default, I think it's going to make us a lot smarter. Another thing, by the way, people are afraid AI is going to make you dumb, but AI is an assistant. The people who have the most sophisticated assistants need to learn the most because you need to know how to direct the assistants and how to evaluate their output. So again, Elon Musk, not that I'm the biggest fan. He lies a lot about energy, but he's great in a lot of ways. Like, does he know a lot or a little? Because he has all these assistants.

1:17:55Does Mark Zuckerberg know a lot or a little? You know, the best entrepreneurs, Peter Thiel says, are polymaths. Like, they know about everything. And with AI, a lot of us are going to become a lot more polymaths because we can learn a lot more quickly. And to make use of the assistants, we need to have a much broader range of knowledge to actually decide what to do and whether we're happy with what it did. We're talking to Alex Epstein, author of Fossil Future. Alex, when you're selling a new product or a service in a free market economy, anywhere. Marketing is obviously a huge component. You have entire departments of big companies, hundreds, thousands of people.

1:18:31How do we sell the product? How do we message it? How do you make a pet rock attractive? How do you differentiate our gasoline from other gasolines? These are real questions. I mean, billions of dollars are spent on this. I can make a strong case to you. One of the reasons I'm not mad at all at the doom and gloom crowd, I'm not mad at all, is because some of the AI titans did this to themselves. I mean, really going out at college graduations and commencement ceremonies and telling kids out there, get on the train, man, or we're running you down and you're all going to lose your job. One, it's not based in the jobs data at all.

1:19:04I play, I showed a Wall Street Journal article citing jobs data. That's not shown in the jobs data at all. There are not mass layoffs from AI, quite the contrary. I mean, it has to be one of the dumbest marketing pitches I've ever heard. I think it was just chest puffing, bravado, look how powerful we are. But it had a real effect. And I think that's why you're getting a lot of this black cloud stuff. Yeah, it's really interesting what motivates it, because you said it's hard to imagine a worse marketing strategy. I mean, I, you know, I come a lot from studying fossil fuels and that industry was terrible.

1:19:36But nothing compared to the AI leaders in terms of saying, hey, we've got a product. It's going to take away your livelihood and it might end up going rogue and decide to kill you. And I do think part of the issue is, philosophically, some of these people have what you could call AI animism, which is they really believe that AI is somehow a separate conscious being, that if it becomes, quote, intelligent enough, it's going to develop, its interest will contradict ours and it'll harm us. And so let's just be really clear. AI is computers connected to human systems, to each other and to human systems.

1:20:11Like it's computers running software. Now, it's unbelievable computers running software and the LLM software is an unbelievable breakthrough. What it basically does is it allows computers to take open-ended instructions, which was never really possible before. Like before you just had to have something that was pre-specified by a programmer and the computer could do that. Now you can have something that no programmer ever specified, But because of the magic of token guessing, the LLM can figure out something, again, that nobody pre-programmed. Like, that's amazing. And there are certain ways we need to control it that we didn't need to control previous computers.

1:20:44But it's still just computers connected to other computers connected to human systems. And so we need to responsibly configure those computers and we need to responsibly connect those computers. But stop acting like it's a being that has any interest or any consciousness. That's totally screwing up everybody's thinking. including the leaders of AI. Like they talk about model welfare, like the welfare, like the model has feelings and Anthropoc is talking about the model's feelings. Like this is so detrimental to their own thinking. And I think thus their thing. And then they don't know anything about economics.

1:21:17And so everyone who doesn't know about economics just always assumes that when they have a powerful technology, nobody's going to have a job, even though again, the world is incredibly poor and it's incredibly hard to make a dent in productivity. So we should hope for like a two axing of productivity in the near future. And then we still have infinite needs and wants. That's such a brilliant point about how we tend to humanize these things. It's inevitable. It's hard, even I do it sometimes. We talk about it in terms of motivation and this was evil and it hacked and it didn't. No, it's completing a task designed by humans where they just didn't have the guardrails right.

1:21:50It's really that simple. It didn't do anything. It's just following basic instructions. It's not a human being. In closing, I wanted to ask about this and I don't know your opinion on this at all. When we asked you to come on, I told you we would discuss it. But universal basic income. There is a theory out there that we are going to enter an era of untold prosperity. And gosh, I hope that's true. And we've been told, though, throughout human history with every new revolution, the industrial revolution, you know, the sabotage with the shoe machines. People aren't going to be able to do it. They're going to be bored.

1:22:25All of these new technologies, people are just going to sit around. Human beings have always found things to do because we're human beings. We need meaning in our lives, okay? Yeah, there are some people who are just going to be lazy, but that's a very small portion of the population. I think a universal basic income is a horrendous idea, not on the economics of it. And we may be so wealthy that we could afford that. That's not the point. The point is I think it steals from people, and I use that word deliberately. It steals from people the motivation to want to do what human beings do, which is to go into the world and make the world a better place with your valuable skill set.

1:23:01I don't mean that as some dumb cliche. Everybody has that capability. I think the UBI, universal basic income, paying people for basically nothing is a really awful idea. Yeah. Under any imaginable scenario, any plausible scenario, I completely agree. I mean, you have to think of AI as a, it's the most general purpose empowerment tool of any technology, basically. I mean, it's, again, its immediate effects are like teaching poor people how to program in the poorest parts of the world. It's the ultimate empowerment thing. And once we get robots involved, it'll make you, everyone, a lot more powerful individually, which means a lot more productive, which means you're going to be able to do more valuable stuff on the market.

1:23:40So what we need to be focused on is an AI ethic of entrepreneurialism. And here, I'll say something controversial. I think with the whole global competition thing, America took a very much a victim attitude. And it's like, hey, all these poor people around the world who want to make a better life and compete with us, screw them. I want to do the exact same thing, the exact same way. And oh, by the way, pass totally irrational environmental controls that make it impossible to do anything industrial here. But we should just be free from all foreign competition or something like this. Like that doesn't help people to be victims.

1:24:10Like it doesn't help black individuals when there's black victimhood. It doesn't help people in industrial areas when there's rural victimhood. And we do not want AI victimhood. You need an AI ethic where you say, hey, there's an enormous opportunity. I've got the greatest teaching and training tool ever created. I'm going to use it myself. I'm going to have my family use it. I'm going to be on top of it. And I'm going to be a valuable participant in a world with a lot more mental assistance. And hopefully we can get two or three times more productive. And I'm happy to be a part of that. I think that's what we really need mentality-wise for people.

1:24:42And definitely not we're entitled to just steal some of the people's money who are productive while we just sit on a log. Alex Epstein, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Those are really fantastic insights. You're welcome back anytime. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Dan. You got it. Folks, that was really, I think, productive. Yeah, you see what I did there? Productive conversation about artificial intelligence. I told you there's going to be a middle ground. There's going to be a central tendency, mean, median, and mode on income, benefits, productivity, and everything. The doomers are probably wrong.

1:25:17The utopian fallacy people, it's called the utopian fallacy for a reason, are probably wrong. But it's going to take sound minds to get there. Eliminate the fringe components on each end and come down to a common ground in the middle because it is a vital technology. And it isn't going away. And we can't just give up because no one else is going to give up. And if we lose this fight, it is existential. And you know I don't use that word often. Thanks again for tuning in today. Be sure to check out Sean Farish's show at 1 p.m. Eastern Rumble.com slash Sean. Haley at noon at Rumble.com slash Haley and Vince, the king of morning podcasting.

1:25:52Rumble.com slash Vince. 8 a.m. live stream. You can watch all of those shows on demand anytime. How do you do it? Just download the Rumble app. It is free. Doesn't cost you anything. Download it on your smartphone, your TV, on your iPad, on your computer, or you can just watch on the web, rumble.com slash Bongino. Click that follow button while you're there. We really appreciate it, folks. Thanks so much for tuning in. I will see you back here tomorrow. Hey there, I'm Vince. I'm Haley Karania. I'm Sean Farish. Host of Vince. Host of Scrolling with Haley. Host of Sean Farish Live. You can always catch my show right here.

1:26:24Right here. Right here on the Bongino Report channel. Live, 8 a.m. Eastern weekday mornings. Noon weekdays. 1 p.m. Eastern time. And if you miss it, no worries. The show will always be right here and anywhere you find a podcast. Thanks for watching. And thank you for your attention to this matter.