Carla Hayden

0:00Introducing the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio now with AI powered PDF spaces. Do more with PDFs than you ever thought possible. Need AI to turn 100 pages of market research into five insights with a click? Do that with Acrobat. Need templates for a sales proposal that'll close that deal? Do that with Acrobat. Need an AI specialist to tailor the tone of your market report to sound real smart in real time? Do that with the all-new Adobe Acrobat Studio. Learn more at adobe.com slash do that with Acrobat.

0:34The Library of Congress is the largest library in the world. It's led by Carla Hayden, the Librarian of Congress. She's unique because she's the first woman to be a librarian in Congress, the first African-American to be a librarian in Congress, and also one of the first librarians to be a librarian in Congress. I had a chance to sit down with her recently to hear her story and how she's trying to open up the Library of Congress to all Americans. So why does Congress need a library? Can't they just use the regular library other people have? Why do they need their own library? Well, Congress, and think about this, in 1800, a new nation, a new legislative body, there was the thought that they needed some reference books.

1:16And they were mainly law books, the first books that were purchased, about 600 books. And that's how the Library of Congress really started. Think of the name, the Library of Congress. So it is a reference and research tool for Congress. And they knew that because they have parliamentary libraries and they knew about those types of things. So they knew that as legislators, they might have to refer. Now, in 2024, the Library of Congress is much bigger than it was when it first started in 1800. But is it really properly named the Library of Congress now? Because it isn't more than just a library for congressmen and women.

1:57Well, it's evolved. And over time, it evolved into not only the reference tool for Congress, and there's still about 500 experts in just about every field that are dedicated to being the researchers and nonpartisan experts for Congress. And that's still there. But the library has expanded to serve the people that Congress serves. So now it is the largest library in the world with 178 million items and it serves everyone. Now the only people who can actually check out materials in the traditional sense are members of Congress and their staff members. But members of the public, the general public, can come into the Library of Congress's facilities and use materials on site.

2:53Let's suppose I am a person who wants to use the Library of Congress for research, and I need some books I want to take home to read them at home. I cannot do that if I'm a regular person. You could not do that. What you could do, and what many libraries, public libraries and university and college libraries throughout the United States and even in some international facilities. The Library of Congress will loan materials to another library, and a patron could look at the materials right there. But they couldn't take them home, but they could look at them in their own library. Okay, so what does the Librarian of Congress actually do?

3:32Ah, now the Library of Congress is basically the CEO of the entire enterprise, and that includes the U.S. Copyright Office. The Library of Congress in 1870 became the administrative operation and really the main manager of the U.S. copyright system. That's also how the library collection grew, because when you register for copyright, whatever it is, you are required to deposit two copies of whatever it is. Now, that could be wallpaper, video games, but books. And when the Library of Congress became the administrator of the copyright system, they were able to then select from deposits, and the collection really grew.

4:25So we've had the Library of Congress, we started in 1800. How many women have been Librarians of Congress before you? I'm the first female Librarian of Congress since 1802. So the library itself was established, the law books in 1800, and then in 1802 there was a thought, well we need somebody to manage this. And that's when the first Librarian of Congress was appointed. How many African Americans have been Librarian of Congress before you? That's also me. And so I'm a twofer in terms of that. So there haven't been any people of color or females. And it's interesting, the most, one of the most unusual parts of me being in the position is the fact that I'm a female, because librarianship is one of what they call the four feminized professions where 85 to 90 percent of the people who work in the institution are female, but the top management doesn't reflect that.

5:32So is there a library that's bigger than the Library of Congress anywhere in the world? Does any country have a bigger collection of books than the Library of Congress? We've just been designated in the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest library in the world and our closest competitor, and it's really not a competition, is the British Library. That's the National Library of Great Britain. And we have a friendly kind of rivalry, but in terms of number of items, and we definitely are the largest. So you have more than books. You have regular books, you have comic books, you have maps, you have manuscripts.

6:10Photographs, film, all types, any format. Let me ask you, today almost everything is digitized, it seems. So why do we really need libraries since you can just go on a computer and get everything? Do you really need to keep all these books? Why not just digitize them and then say thank you? There are so many items that have not been digitized and might not ever be digitized. When you think about the diaries of Theodore Roosevelt, The Library of Congress has the papers of 23 presidents from George Washington to Coolidge. There are still be analog materials that could be digitized but will be in analog form.

6:53And books, even though you can get things in digital form, there are still people and there still will be an appetite for a physical item. But the future is definitely digital. And so libraries like the Library of Congress, British Library, all libraries are making sure that they have the infrastructure to be able to get materials that are born digital. And so we have quite a bit of materials that are coming in. They never are in analog form. They're coming straight in digital form and we're able to circulate them. As we talk now, what do you think you have done in your period of time, eight years or so, to open up the library to the average citizen more than was done before?

7:43Specifically with respected children, what have you done? Well, we've started to be a card member, to use the 18 reading rooms at the Library of Congress. Why do you need a card? It's a card. It's a reader's card to give you access to the materials to say that you're responsible. Even though you can't check them out, it's to have a record of who's coming in and to do that. What we've done, though, is to expand the offerings that we have for young people. We have a Young People's Ambassador for Literature. We have literacy programs. And you've been involved in giving actual awards to literacy groups that help young people learn how to read.

8:27And so the offerings that we have for young people have expanded greatly. Literacy is a big problem in the United States. I think 14 % of adults are functioning illiterate, which means they can't read past the fourth grade level. That's a large percentage of the population. Nothing the Library of Congress can do can completely solve that problem. But are you surprised at how many people still cannot read in this country? And how many people have another problem called illiteracy, which means they can read, but they don't choose to read? They don't. And is that a growing problem? And it's a challenge with the digital age because people are, they're reading on tablets.

9:07So we do count that as reading. If you have an e-book, you're reading the book. And I've been often asked, if I'm listening to a book, are you reading? Does that count? But there is a concern that the amount of reading, actual text that people are doing, is diminishing. And so how do you work with other organizations? So the Library of Congress connects to public libraries, school libraries, and we do joint programming with them because there is an opportunity for us to let people know and to make reading more interesting. So literacy is a challenge for sure, but in the libraries around the country, are libraries being used more and more because people can't afford to buy books?

9:57Or are they being used because it's a good place to gather where it's quiet? Why do we actually have all these thousands of libraries anymore when people are often doing things digitally and they don't need to go to a physical place to get a book? People are using public libraries, as someone has said, as opportunity centers. They use the high-speed computers to fill out job applications, to interact with government, the whole e-government aspect. They are using libraries as places to register to vote, to vote, and all types of things. And libraries are offering collections that are beyond books.

10:36So libraries are circulating and responding to communities in so many ways. From providing extra support during busy seasons to replacing vacant roles, you need Express Employment Professionals on your team. Express can handle everything from contract placements to finding the right full-time team member. Solve your workforce challenges when you let Express deal with the workers' compensation, payroll, benefits, and more, so you can concentrate on what really matters, growing your business. Go to ExpressPros.com. If you've never used a staffing company, here's how Express has helped businesses like yours to balance their workforce to meet production demands, reduce stress and burnout, which reduces turnover.

11:22Access a local talent pool ready to work. For all types of jobs and a variety of reasons, choosing Express Employment Professionals is the move to make this year. With more than 870 locations, find the one near you at ExpressPros.com. That's ExpressPros.com. So let's talk a bit about your background, how you became a librarian. So where were you born? I was born on the campus of Florida A &M University, a historically black college in Tallahassee, Florida. And were your parents teachers there? Yes. My father had been recruited to start the string department at that school. He was a classically trained violinist and string instruments, and so he was there.

12:14And then my mom was a pianist. She was his accompanist many times. And so they went down there. They'd never been to Florida. They had never been to a historically bad college. And they were from Springfield, Illinois, my dad, and Champaign, Illinois, my mom. So it was just a totally different experience for them. So let me ask you how you got out of Florida because you were born there, you were raised there. But then where did you go to college? Well, there was a little byway there. My dad got bitten by the jazz bug, and we moved to New York City so we could pursue that. Parents got divorced because my mom did not get bitten by that bug.

12:59So then we returned to their home states of Illinois. So I ended up going to high school and then college in Chicago. And you went to college ultimately where? Roosevelt University and University of Chicago. All right. So you got a Ph.D. in library sciences at the University of Chicago. Yes. So are there many library schools anymore? Because I thought some of them, the one at the University of Chicago no longer exists. But are there still a lot of library schools around the United States? There are about 56 library schools, but now they're mainly called information science schools, schools of information science or information management.

13:40the University of Chicago School closed and the Columbia University closed because their programs were deemed a little too academic. So after you got your Ph.D. from the University of Chicago in library sciences, what did you do? Well, I went off to teach at the library school in University of Pittsburgh. And that school was really before its time. The dean there was Tony Carble. really wanted to make sure that there was a merger with information science, computer science. She brought in technology companies, and it was really an innovative library school. And then did you go back to Chicago from there?

14:25I went back, and I went back because one of my students that I had sent off with all this knowledge is power and go and work in these libraries and help people and everything. He came back and said, I'm going to get a PhD and I want to teach. And I said, but you were doing so well, I thought, at this big urban library. And he said, well, you told me to bring my ideas up. And I saw the director of the library and I went up to him and he, I was trying to tell him some of the things that I was interested in, and he blew me off. And I thought, oh, okay, this isn't that. And so I'm coming back to academe.

15:11So what did you do? You joined the Chicago Public Library. And you rose up to be the? Chief Librarian. I went back to Chicago. I also did a stint at the Museum of Science and Industry. And that was really helpful because I worked more with the curators, but also opening up a public library in a museum. So when you're in Chicago, you met two people. Did they borrow a lot of books, Barack and Michelle Obama? Did they ever have overdue fines or anything? Well, we could never tell if they did. But what happened was, when I went back, the person that was the administrator for the city of Chicago that had in her portfolio the public library was Michelle Robinson.

16:02And I got to know her because she was responsible as a deputy mayor type of position. And then she got engaged to this gentleman who had an interesting name. And I was recruited to head up the Baltimore Library. And so in that July, I missed the wedding. Wow. Whatever happened to him? He did well. It was so interesting, too, that years later, I would be sitting almost like this in the Oval Office being interviewed by the President of the United States because that's the person who nominates the Library to Congress, and it's that gentleman. So you already knew him, but let's talk about Baltimore.

16:47You went to my hometown of Baltimore, where the library system is called the Enoch Pratt Free Library System. And you became the head librarian there for 22 years? 22 years. Okay. So you're the head librarian for 22 years in Baltimore. And then the president of the United States has the responsibility to nominate for Senate confirmation the Librarian of Congress. Why don't members of Congress nominate the Librarian of Congress since it's a Congress thing? I believe that started with Lincoln. and that it would be a position that the president would nominate similar to a Supreme Court justice and that it was that type of position.

17:28And so you still have to be confirmed by the Senate. And I went through that process. So you interviewed with President Obama and he said, do you want to be a librarian in Congress? And I guess you said you were interested. I was concerned about what I could bring to the position because I had been so involved with public libraries, public access, all of that career. But I never thought of actually being part of the Library of Congress because of what the perception was, that it was mainly for scholars, it was that. And so what President Obama asked me was, he started it out with telling me that he had seen the contents of Abraham Lincoln's pockets the night he was assassinated.

18:17He had seen the first draft, reading copy of the Gettysburg Address that Lincoln took. But he said, at the Library of Congress. But he said, I think that's because of my position. And he said, what could you do with your background to open up the Library of Congress to everyone? And that's when I thought and said to him, I think I could do that. So the government of the United States pays for the Library of Congress, but do you take donations or you're not interested in donations? Well, we have wonderful philanthropic support. The James Madison Council, you've definitely been the leader of that.

18:56And that's the philanthropic arm of the library. And so there are actual donations of cash or that, but also grants. The Mellon Foundation gave the library one of its largest grants ever to work with communities about their histories. And also, we just started a friends group. The Library of Congress had never had a friends group. And so at a certain level, you can be a friend of the Library of Congress. And then people give actual collections and collection items. And that's truly wonderful because we wouldn't be able to purchase some of the things that people have given us. So let me ask you about the library itself today.

19:47How many employees do you have? Roughly 3 ,500. They're not all librarians. Those are the people that you have, copyright lawyers, all types of people that work at the Library of Congress. Now, very often when I've seen Library of Congress employees, I ask them how long they've been here, and they simply say, oh, 35 years. I say, that's a long time. They say, no, somebody here is 40 years. Somebody here is 45 years. Why do people stay so long at the Library of Congress? They love it. One of the joys, it's like being in a university. faculty, they're like faculty members, and they are subject experts in whatever subject you have.

20:26The Library of Congress there collects in 470 languages. Half of the collection is in languages other than English. And so the Middle Eastern division, you're going to have experts from the region who are from the region and speak. So today you've got 3 ,500 employees. Where do you get your money from? Library fines, I assume, are not that big a part of your business. And this is where the accessibility for everyone comes into play, because 85 to 90 percent of the library's operating budget is from an appropriation from Congress. And that's taxpayer money. And so that's another reason why we're really just devoted to making sure people know that this is their library, too.

21:17So is it a joint committee on the library for Congress? The library budget goes through the appropriations committees on both sides, Senate and House. And then there are policy committees that help with the direction of the library itself. though budgeting gives you direction as well. What do you do when you're not being a librarian at Congress? I always love to read. And so when I get some spare time, I can look at old New Yorkers and, you know, how they pile up. I could read a mystery. I love mysteries and biographies. But you don't go to any bookstores because you don't need to buy books. I do.

21:59You go to a bookstore? I go to the Ivy Bookstore in Baltimore. And it's funny because now people are watching what I'm buying. So you have to be careful. So as we talk, this weekend is the National Book Festival weekend. This has been going on for about 20-plus years or so. What actually happens at the National Book Festival? Oh, and it is a festival. It's a one-day event with over 90 authors now. And it was started by First Lady Laura Bush when my predecessor, when she came to Washington, she had started the Texas Book Festival. That's still one of the largest book festivals in the country. And they started it about 24 years ago.

22:46And when you think about what we have for young people and what we do for young people, There's an entire section that is going to feature interactive activities and authors for young people, famous authors that we all know, Doris Curran's Goodwin, James McBride, James Patterson will be there, you'll be there. And it's just heartening when you, we just talked about illiteracy, and when you see all of these book lovers that are gathered, thousands and thousands of people. Do presidents of the United States ever come up and borrow a book, or they're too busy to do that? They don't call you and say, do you have this book or something like that?

23:27Well, we have had some good relations with the White House in terms of putting books on display for certain things. And we've been doing more of that recently. So what kind of books do you like to read? Are you nonfiction, fiction? I mentioned mysteries. I'm a big mystery fan because you feel some sense of satisfaction with it. Someone usually gets killed. Nobody cares, but and then it's solved. So that's very reassuring. So let's talk about the Library of Congress in the future. Let's say 10, 20, 30 years from now, do you expect libraries like the Library of Congress to be more relevant, less relevant, more technologically savvy or about the same as now?

24:13They're going to be more technologically savvy, but they're also going to be, and we're seeing it now, even though there are some challenges in terms of what public libraries and school libraries offer, they're going to be even more relevant because they're still trusted sources of information. And in the world of misinformation, who can you trust? What are those trusted sources? libraries are still going to be places that people look to. Thanks for listening. To hear more of my interviews, you can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.