Governor Wes Moore

0:28Your next product launch is coming fast. I'm in the State House of Maryland where I just had a conversation with Wes Moore, the charismatic governor of Maryland. He said he was definitely going to run for re-election two years. He also said he hasn't decided whether he's going to run for president of the United States, but there are many people who think he'd be an excellent candidate in four years. My conversation with him was one of the most interesting ones I've had with any governor in recent years. You were asleep one night and somebody, I think, woke you up and said that the key bridge was collapsing.

1:01Who woke you up and what did you say? It was our fantastic chief of staff, Fagan Harris, at 2.02 in the morning. Called and he said, the key bridge is gone. And that key bridge is, you know, it's over two miles long. It is literally, it's in the skyline of every picture of Baltimore. And it's been there since I've been born. And when I said to him, I said, what do you mean gone? And he said it collapsed. And immediately we began mobilizing. We were on the phone with the FBI trying to figure out, was there terrorism involved? You know, what exactly happened? How many cars were on the bridge? How many people are unaccounted for?

1:43I'll never forget that morning, because immediately you just saw how we had to put the state on a state of emergency. We had to begin coordinating efforts. But I'll never forget that morning. So as it turned out, a number of people were working in the middle of the night on the bridge, and I guess most of them, if not all of them, lost their lives. And now the bridge is now going to be repaired. Somehow you managed to get the federal government to pay for all of it. Bipartisan support. So when will the bridge reopen? It will reopen in 2028. We will have that bridge done. And why is it important to Maryland and Baltimore to have the key bridge anyway?

2:21Well, you know, the Port of Baltimore, it really is America's gateway. It's one of the most important, not just maritime facilities, but just port entries that we have in the country. Two-thirds of the country get its goods from the Port of Baltimore as its main entry point. But there's only really three main arteries to the Port of Baltimore. You have the harbor tunnel, you have the Baltimore tunnel, and then you have the key bridge. The problem is that all hazmat materials, oil refineries, etc., they cannot take tunnels legally. They can only take the bridge. And so this is having a distinct impact, not just on transit and transportation, but it is having a distinct impact on goods and commerce being able to move.

3:12So right now, as we talk, there have been fires in California. Do you have any advice for your fellow Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom, about how to handle crises like these? Yeah, I mean, it's heartbreaking what's going on in Southern California. And I know, you know, I reached out to Gavin as soon as I heard about what happened and offered our support and offered our resources as well. Because I was really humbled how many governors reached out to me right after the Key Bridge and did the same. And so that bond does matter. I think when I think about the key bridge, the most important thing that we were able to do was have unified command, was be able to bring everybody on board that we were all singing from the same sheet of music, that we all had unified goals.

3:53What caused the ship to collapse or crash into the bridge? What was the cause? Well, they're still going through that now. In fact, there's litigation that our attorney general has filed. And so we're going through the process of identification. The thing that we know is that bridges don't just collapse. there's negligence that caused that bridge to collapse on March 26th. Now, Maryland has had a reputation in this metropolitan area of being a higher tax state than Virginia. Recently, you have announced a$3 billion budget gap that you're trying to deal with, and part of it is you're increasing taxes on wealthier people.

4:29Yeah. But what we're doing is this. No one agrees that the tax code makes sense in the state of Maryland. And so I said, we've got to be able to reform the tax code to make us more competitive and to make taxes simpler, fairer, and pro-growth. And so I just announced a budget plan. And it is counterintuitive, but I explain to people, to deal with the budget deficit, the structural deficit that we inherited, we're actually going to give two-thirds of Marylanders a tax cut. We're going to take 82 % of Marylanders and say, we're actually going to make sure that you pay either less in taxes or there's no change.

5:04we did not raise the sales tax, we did not raise the income tax, we've cut the corporate tax rate in the state of Maryland and we've eliminated the inheritance tax. And for a lot of people it did seem a little bit odd because they're like well why don't you just raise sales taxes or raise property taxes. And my answer is this, A, I would have found that to be just a lazy way of thinking because it's not reform. We've got to reform the tax code. And the second piece is it's not pro-growth. I actually want to attract businesses to come to the state of Maryland. And that's why in our budget, we have some historic adjustments to doing regulatory reform, permitting reform, procurement reform.

5:43Actually, we've announced an executive order focusing on government modernization, where it's all about getting rid of the government waste, getting rid of the unnecessary spending, doing consolidation, doing fleet consolidation, IT consolidation, focusing on real estate. I mean, all things that we can get our economy going. And so that has been the focus, is that we've got to get out of this crisis by focusing on growth. So as we talk, Donald Trump is about to be inaugurated again as President of the United States. So as a Democratic leader and a Democratic governor of Maryland, a very Democratic state, do you feel like you're a leader of the opposition, or do you feel like your job is to cooperate with him?

6:24Or how do you view Donald Trump as somebody you work with or oppose? Yeah, I mean, I'm not the leader of the resistance. I'm the governor of Maryland. I've got 6.5 million people who I answer to, and some of whom voted for Donald Trump, some of whom did not vote for Donald Trump. But the thing that I know is that the thing they all have in common is they're Marylanders. And so the way I'm going to approach this working with the new administration is the way that I would approach working with any administration, where I understand how tethered Maryland is to Washington and to the federal government.

6:57We have over 160 ,000 federal employees. We are the home of some of the largest federal installations in the country, here in the state of Maryland, that a lot of our infrastructure projects are being underwritten by the federal government to include the key bridge. So I understand how important that relationship is, And I am very clear that I will work with this administration and find ways of finding common sense solutions that are going to uplift Maryland, invest in Maryland, support Maryland. I'll push back on things that I think are either don't make sense or are unconstitutional or challenge our values.

7:34But I am approaching this truly with a sense of partnership. Why do you think Maryland has now become such a liberal state, such a democratic state? We tell people that we are. This is the northernmost southern state. I'm one of the only Democratic southern governors inside of the country that the bloodiest battles of the Civil War took place in the state of Maryland. I'm the first black governor in the history of the state of Maryland that literally down the street is the docks, the Annapolis docks, which was one of the country's first and largest slave ports. that the building we're in right now, the state capitol, was built by the hands of enslaved people.

8:13So the dichotomy and the complexity of this state is very real. But it's one of the things that I take a real sense of pride in. Now, you ran for governor initially in 2022 and were elected overwhelmingly. You're up for re-election in 2026. Yes. You haven't announced yet, I don't think, that you're running. I can announce now I'm running for re-election. Okay. So you're running for re-election as governor. I think you're likely to win based on everything I know about Maryland politics. But the question you'll be asked is, are you thinking of running as well for president of the United States? And the answer to that question is?

8:52No. I've got the best job around. And I love the momentum we're actually seeing in the state of Maryland. You know, I think about when I was first elected, Maryland was ranked 43rd in the country in unemployment. Now, Maryland's going on 15 straight months of amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. Now, when I was elected governor, Maryland was in the middle of a scourge of violent crime. Over an eight-year period, Maryland saw our homicide rate nearly doubled. Baltimore City had eight straight years of 300-plus homicides. Now, Maryland has amongst the most precipitous drops in violent crime of anywhere in the country right now.

9:29And so I love the momentum that we're seeing here, and I want this to be Maryland's decade, and I want to lead that charge. Suppose people come to you and say, you did a great job as Maryland governor, you just talked about some of the things you've done, you've been reelected overwhelmingly, the party really needs a charismatic figure to be the leader in the post-Donald Trump era. You would say... I would say people should pay attention to what we're doing here in Maryland. Okay. because I think the momentum we're seeing here in Maryland, and I know Marylanders seem very happy. Our numbers are very strong here, but people understand that the momentum we're having here is really big and important.

10:10So have you heard the story about the prescription plan with savings automatically built in? It's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to cmk.co slash stories to learn how CBS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's cmk.co slash s-t-o-r-i-e-s. The biggest city in the state is Baltimore. Why is Baltimore so important to you? It's our state's largest city. And if your state's largest city is not thriving, your state can't thrive. And that is just a mathematical equation because the only way this is going to be Maryland's decade is if it's Baltimore's time.

10:51And so that's why we did focus on things like being able to extend the Orioles lease and make sure the Orioles could be here for 30 years. It's the reason we focus on things like the Preakness and keeping the Preakness in Maryland for generations to come. While we've invested in the convention center, the reason we focused on housing and getting rid of the vacant housing, the reason we focused on violent crime. And now Baltimore is having the most precipitous drop of anywhere in the country when it comes to homicides and nonfatal shootings and carjackings and auto thefts. So if you can have Baltimore thriving, your state is going to thrive.

11:26Okay, let's talk about your background, which is quite unusual. Where were you born? I was born in Maryland, in Tacoma Park, Maryland. Okay, and your parents did what? My father was a radio journalist, and my mother actually was his assistant. So your father died when you were only three years old? He died from something called acute epiglottitis, which is basically, you know, the epiglottis that all of us have. It's a flap that sits over your windpipe and every time you breathe and talk. And his became so swollen that it just sat on top of his windpipe. So basically his body suffocated itself.

12:03And he actually died in front of me. Did you realize what was happening when it was going on? You're only three years old. I didn't. And in fact, my mother tells a story about how at his funeral, my uncle Vin took me up to go see his body for the final time in the casket. And I actually touched him and I asked him if he was going to come with us. So even at that time, I still had no idea what had fully happened. And it didn't really process until I got older. So you have siblings? I do. I have an older sister and a younger sister. My mother had a really tough time with the transition. And she didn't feel safe in the neighborhood.

12:38she didn't feel safe in the house and so she called up her parents uh my grandparents and then you grew up there and were you a great student were you a great athlete i was not a great student and but what was really interesting was that the work actually came easy to me uh the attention to detail and the the interest in doing it did not and so by the time i was 11 years old i had handcuffs on my wrists. By the time I was 13, I was kicked out of my school, and I was sent to a military school in Pennsylvania. So I had a really difficult time transitioning when I was younger. So you went to the military school, and it was sort of a college and a high school combined?

13:19Yeah, it was. It was a junior college, so it was a two-year college and also a middle school and a high school. That's the thing that changed everything for me at the military school, was they put me in charge of something. And I was actually accountable to other people for my actions. And that's why I just believe deeply in accountability because I think that's actually, it's one of the things that helped to save my life. So you went into the military, the Army, and you were there for a year or so before you went to Hopkins? So I went to, I was there for two, I was in two years. So I finished up, I got my associate's degree.

13:54So in fact, I'm one of the only governors in the country, actually with a two-year college degree. That's actually this ring right here. and then I transferred after finishing my associate's degree, and then I went to Johns Hopkins to finish my undergrad. So who told you you should apply for a Rhodes scholarship? It was actually a mutual friend of ours, Kurt Schmoke. I interned with Kurt Schmoke, who at that time was the mayor of Baltimore. And in fact, I have a picture in my office of him pointing to a picture in his office back when I was a young intern and I had hair, and he was a young mayor, and he had hair.

14:28and the picture he's pointing to is actually his Rhodes Scholarship class. And it was in that moment that he was telling me, I want you to apply for the Rhodes Scholarship. So you got a Rhodes Scholarship, which is only 32 Americans every year get them. You went to Oxford. When you got there, did you study anything? I actually studied. I got my M.L.I.T., or Master's in International Relations, and I actually started the D.Phil. So right now, I'm all but dissertation for my doctorate in International Relations. Okay, so usually when people finish their Rhodes Scholarships and they get degrees or they don't get degrees, they come back and they run for office, they go to a private equity firm, they go to an investment banking firm, they teach at some place.

15:09You did something different. What did you do after your Rhodes Scholarship? So what was interesting, initially I actually went into the world of finance, and I remember getting a phone call from a friend of mine who was at that time a major, and he called me, a major in the Army. He just finished at 20 Rock. He was getting ready to deploy to Afghanistan. And he called me and he said, when are you gonna get in the fight? And that was such an indicting question because he was right. That I had trained with all these people. I'd done my airborne training. I became a paratrooper. And and these many of these people were now on their second third deployments and I hadn't done a single one yet.

15:50And so I I made the decision and I left. I left banking and I linked up with the 82nd Airborne Division and we deployed to Afghanistan. How many years were you in Afghanistan? I was there for almost a full year. I was thankful for the people I was serving with. The 82nd are some of the best, some of the best and most hard charging soldiers that the Army has ever created. And there were really hard days. So you came back and then what did you do when you came back? I actually did a White House Fellowship. And part of it was my deputy brigade commander was also a former White House fellow. After you finished your White House Fellowship, then what did you do?

16:29I went to Citi. Citi Bank. At that point. Okay. And so then I spent about, I spent close to five years working for Citi, doing investment banking, doing M &A, and also doing technology. Okay. She did that for a number of years. And then an organization came along called Robin Hood. Yeah. and they said, we want you to head it up. What is Robinhood, and why did you take that job? It's one of the nation's largest poverty-fighting organizations. It started really over 30 years ago, and it started with an initial idea of saying, what if you could take analytics and data, the same way we take analytics and data when we're making trading decisions, when we're buying companies, and put that towards the poverty fight.

17:12So after four years at Robinhood, you decide to run for governor of Maryland, never having run for anything else before. Never. Did you think you had a chance? The data didn't seem to show I had a chance. I mean, I was polling at 1 % in our first poll. I mean, I say it's true. Literally, I'm Not Voting was polling higher than Westmore. And so the data showed I was running against statewide elected officials. I was running against the former head of the DNC. I was running against two cabinet secretaries. One of the people I was running against was actually on my board at Robin Hood, which made board meetings very awkward.

17:50So I'm like, I had people who were just like, who were seasoned at this. But I think the thing that actually really resonated with people is that I don't come from a political background. I don't come from a political family. I don't do the politician thing. I don't do the partisan thing. I just really focus on results and actually meeting people where they are. And I think that actually resonated with folks. So when you get elected governor, do you actually say, I'm really happy now I'm governor? When you took the job and the first day you're sworn in, did you realize that the responsibilities are much greater than you thought?

18:22Or you actually thought it wasn't that difficult a job? No. I mean, it's a hard job because also I think there were things that we inherited that we didn't anticipate. I remember coming in and being able to read reports that you realize after you came on board about the fiscal crisis that we were getting ready to inherit. that we're currently navigating the worst fiscal crisis that Maryland has seen in 20 years. And it's something that has been predicted since 2017. But the problem was it wasn't dealt with because there was COVID money. And COVID money kept on masking the obstacles and masking the fact that our business model in the state of Maryland was broken and that our economy wasn't moving.

19:03We were just so deeply underperforming when it came to growth, whether it be the way that Medicaid was being completely out of whack and had a billion-dollar expenditure that was not anticipated and we didn't see coming, there was a brokenness of state government that I don't think we fully understood. And so that's why our first priority had to be fix state government. So what is your typical day as a governor? You do some interviews, maybe an interview like this, but you are, let's say, at the beginning of every morning, as I understand it, you go over to the Naval Academy and you work out with the Navy midshipmen.

19:38That's right. And, I mean, you're a little bit older than them. Is that a little difficult to do? They wouldn't know it. I do, and honestly, I love the fact that the Naval Academy is down the street from here. And as an Army guy, I always say, I just need to figure out who to talk to. They have all that beat Army stuff all over the place. So you can keep up with them? Oh, yes. There is no way. As an Army guy, there's no way I'm letting the Navy smoke me. No way. So I'm not going to get you to say you're going to run for president. I know that. but you are going to play a role, I assume, in the Democratic Party over the next couple of years, beyond just Maryland, I assume, right?

20:10Absolutely. Absolutely. And do you think people who are governors are more qualified to be presidents than people who are senators? I think if people want to find inspiration, look at the states. Because we just get stuff done. You know, we don't play the partisan game. I think about, I've introduced 26 pieces of legislation since I've been the governor. Not only have we gone 26 for 26, we've gone 26 for 26 bipartisan with both Democrat and Republican support on every single bill that I have introduced. And so I would say if you really want to see what it means to focus on results, because that's what I focus on.

20:49I mean, I don't do the partisan party stuff. Results. Show me results. And I think if you look at what's happening in Maryland and if you look at what's happening in the States, I think you're going to start seeing what results look like. So if somebody's watching this and they're not from Maryland, but they want to know a little bit about Maryland, what would you encapsulate in a paragraph or two about what people should know about the state of Maryland? I would say Maryland really is American miniature. You tell me what you want to do. And no matter where you're standing in the state of Maryland, I can tell you where to have a world-class experience within two hours.

21:22If you want to go to the beaches, if you want to go skiing, if you want to visit farmland, if you want to go see our O's win. tell me what you want to do and I can tell you how to get there within two hours and and I think about you know we are we are we're the home of innovation we're the home of Johns Hopkins University the home of the NSA the home of of NIST the home of of the applied physics lab the home of Fort Meade and the Naval Academy the home of four historically black colleges and universities we have so much to offer in the state of Maryland and I think it's one of the reasons that people are so excited about the growth trajectory we're on.

22:00So final question, how can you bottle the happiness you have? How do you get to be so happy all the time and smiling all the time? Does anybody ever make you feel bad about something? You know, one of the things I lean on a lot is history. And even in really dark times or really challenging moments, I'm a history buff. And I think about having a chance to read about one of our most famous Marylanders, Harriet Tubman. And on my toughest days, I will go back to my office in my house and I'll read on Harriet Tubman. And then I think to myself, what am I complaining about? Like, no matter what kind of day I'm having, imagine having a theoretical conversation with Harriet Tubman, explaining to her how tough my day was when I know how tough all of her days were.

22:54And I think that it's important that we live life with a sense of context. That even when times are tough, and even when times are challenging, remember where we've come from. Remember what as a country we've seen. Remember as a state what we've endured. And we're still here. And that's, I think, what continues to give me a sense of hope and optimism, because I know that no matter what kind of days we are having, We are our ancestors' wildest dreams. And there's a sense of pride that I do have in that. Thanks for listening. To hear more of my interviews, you can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.