Roger Goodell

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0:42I had a chance to talk with him about issues like international expansion, the popularity of the NFL, and in fact, the private equity firms are now being allowed to invest in the NFL. So today, the NFL is by far the most profitable and largest revenue sports franchise or league in the world. Revenue of about$20 billion or so last year. And every team seems to be profitable. The television ratings are very good. What do you think makes the NFL so popular? It always starts with the game, David. I think the game is one of the greatest games, if not the greatest game in the world. The competition is extraordinary.

1:20The players, the coaching. Our games have never been closer in history. And I think it brings people together. And it does well on media. I think the television experience is as great as anything in television. I think being in the stadium is better. But I think we're fortunate to have a great product. Second, I'd say the business model. I think we have a tremendous business model. I think when you look at the key aspects of revenue sharing and a salary cap that we've designed with our players, that we have something that I think makes every team competitive. And I think that's unusual. And they have the finances to be competitive.

2:07And I think that's an important element that people overlook. And I think it also is just a statement. You know better than I do. You're a great investor, and you know this business better than I do. I think it's a statement on the potential success for the Leeds League going forward, too. You've had a number of games overseas in recent years. And, in fact, you opened the season going to the opening game in Brazil. So do you expect to do more overseas games and is that a part of your strategy? It is. We had five last year. We expect to have eight this year, which will be the highest we've ever had.

2:42Our hope would be at some stage to get to 16 games in the next few years. We think we can do that. I think it's an indication of the popularity of our game. Every time we take our game to a new market, Brazil's a great example of it. the fans go crazy for it. They sold out the tickets in less than 90 minutes. People had a wonderful time. It was the talk of the town. And I think it will be the basis and the sort of the match that lights the excitement and the popularity of the game in that market, as well as what we're doing around the world. So we're very excited by it. It's just one element of that strategy.

3:20You need to have television. You need to have activity and participation in the sport. and flag football is a big part of that. So all of those factors, I think, are going to be what we think will be a very successful formula to be a global sport. Do you ever envision having a team that's based overseas, in Mexico City or in London? Listen, we've talked an awful lot about it, and I think there are markets that could, without question, support an NFL franchise. I think there's a lot of issues with expansion of our league that we have to debate on that one. additional teams. We have 32 now. We think that's a really good number for the NFL.

4:00But also, I think we would probably look at it potentially as building out by divisions as opposed to individual teams. You have a lot of issues with the team that's in, say, Europe, and having to travel over playing games and teams going back over to Europe to play. I think the competitive issues still need to be worked out. All the Super Bowls have been held in the United States. They've had more than 50 of them so far. Do you ever envision a time when a Super Bowl will be held in a city not in the United States? Well, we've always, I think, had a Super Bowl in a city that has a franchise. And I think that's sort of the core principle that we've had.

4:37I think if we have an international franchise, I definitely see that happening. I think as we become global, that'll be something that, as we have international franchises, that would be logical. So let's talk about the franchises. Recently, a team was sold for$6 billion, I'd say about a year ago or so, Washington Commanders, for a price that nobody had ever thought a sports franchise in the United States would reach,$6 billion. Were you surprised the price was that high? No. I think one, that's a franchise that growing up in Washington, I probably have deeper emotional feelings for it, but that's a franchise and a great market.

5:19And we believe that it's going to be a tremendous success there. And I think Josh Harris and his limited investors are going to do a great job. I'm not at all surprised that they got to that price. Recently, the NFL allowed private equity firms, including mine, to invest in NFL teams in minority stakes, I think up to 10%. Right. And a number of these have already been done. In fact, I think valuations are above the$6 billion level that the commanders received. I think some of the minority stake investments are at least$8 billion valuations. So why did you let the bad guys known as the private equity people into the tent?

5:58And why have you capped it at 10 %? One, letting the bad guys in, we really feel like there are things that you all can teach us a little bit about our business and maybe help us think about it a little differently. As you know, that 10 % position is a silent position. We believe very strongly in the fact that we like the principal owner approach that we've had for years and other sports have had successfully. So we want to make sure that the controlling owner is the one that makes the decisions on behalf of the club, both at the league level and at the club level. But do you ever envision a time that a sovereign wealth fund could invest directly in a minority stake in a team?

6:36I don't think we'll ever allow institutional in a controlling position, at least in the foreseeable future. Again, I think we feel very strongly about having a principal owner that is there operating the franchise, responsible for that both in the club level as well as the league level. On television is it the case that somebody that only subscribes the basic cable can still watch on any of his teams or her team's home games or what are the rules it's very complicated as to what is you have to pay for what you don't have to pay for today what is the basic rule that makes it possible for somebody to watch the NFL game for their home team?

7:13Well David I would say in the NFL it's about as simple as it gets. We are committed to free television for the home teams, the home markets. So not just the home team, the visiting team. They will get their game on free television, 100%. So in other words, everybody who wants to watch their home team can watch it on basic television for free. Correct. So now you have, though, other packages where people want to watch special games or games that are not their home team. They then sign up for a Netflix package or something else like that? We have a few games that are on pay service but we still close to 90 % of our games are on free television for everybody and I think that is something we're incredibly proud of and I think it's led to the popularity of our game because it's it people can access it and we we give them opportunities to see those games we have a limited number of packages whether it's ESPN or whether it's Netflix or Amazon or YouTube or ESPN plus or our own network where we have I think it's roughly 35 games that are available and those are pay services of some type and they're there they've been incredibly successful we just had a Christmas Day game with Netflix two games that averaged over 30 million people on a global basis and those audiences are younger we're seeing that on some of these new services and as you know the media business is changing and so it's our responsibility to make sure we we do what's right in the best interest of our game to partner where we can bring more fans into the game and so I think we have a nice balance but we're still very reliant on our original partners who are network partners.

8:57And what about the Taylor Swift effect? Some people say that Taylor Swift is bringing more fans in because they want to watch her watch games and other people say that she's getting as much attention as her, I guess, her boyfriend, who's a player for one of the teams, the Kansas City Chiefs. So has that any impact on the NFL or not really that much? No, I think it has had a positive impact. Listen, the most important thing is that two young people, Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift, seem to have a wonderful relationship. And they're both incredible people, which I've had the good fortune of getting to know.

9:32But we just wish them well. But as far as what it's done, I think it's brought more interest into our game. Taylor Swift is one of the greatest entertainers in the world today and I think has a tremendous following. And the fact that she likes football, I think, intrigues other people and causes them to be interested in the game. That's our good thing. Now, in the United States, the biggest sporting event every year is the Super Bowl. What is Super Bowl week like for you? You have to kind of go to the city. You have to deal with everybody. You have to be polite to everybody. You can't get upset with everything.

10:11But is it just a lot of tension that weekend? Do you make the decision on what city you're going to have the Super Bowl in and who the entertainment's going to be? Let's start with the selection of it because it usually happens five years out. It's actually a process we go through to select the Super Bowl city. the owners ultimately vote on that and select that city. And then our staff works with that city for roughly five years to get ready for the Super Bowl. Super Bowl week has gotten bigger. It starts earlier. It now starts on Monday night with a big media event. And it's an incredible event that we think is a celebration of football on a global basis.

10:55It's a hard week because you're pushed in a lot of different directions, but I couldn't be more honored or more privileged to do it, and it's excitement. When we have 200 million people watching the Super Bowl, which is what the number was, that's an extraordinary impact and an extraordinarily event that you have a lot of responsibilities to pull that off successfully. So you get people who say they knew you from high school calling up asking for Super Bowl tickets from time to time or you never get that. Yeah, I get that a few times, yes. This is what the market used to sound like. Pretty complex.

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12:10Have you ever thought in your wildest imaginations what would have happened had he not responded positively and where you might be today? Well, he was kind. I don't know about positive. they get a lot of letters and a lot of interest in becoming an intern. It pushed it off to his executive director. I think it was close to 53 letters later when I got the internship. I see. So it wasn't an immediate response and you've got a job. It took almost a year before that happened. But I have no idea what I'd be doing today if it wasn't being here at the NFL. So you didn't have any idea of doing something important like private equity if you hadn't gotten into the NFL?

12:52are too smart for me, David. No, I doubt that. So to people that are watching now and say, what did he put in his letter that was so persuasive to get an internship at the NFL? What did you say that future people that want to write letters to people like you should put in their letter? Well, I have a copy of it, actually, over there. But I would say it wasn't what was written in the letter. I think it was the fact that I wrote 53 times. at one point the executive director said if you're ever in New York come by and I said well I happen to be in New York he said well can you come by at eight o 'clock I said of course the problem I was in Pittsburgh so I drove all night to get there and I think you just have to take advantage of your opportunities and and distinguish yourself in some ways of what you deeply what you're deeply passionate about and what you think you can create value for someone.

13:53Let's talk about your own background for a moment. Where were you born? Jamestown, New York. I grew up in Washington, D.C., though. Jamestown, New York. And what did your parents do? My mother was a nurse. My father was a politician, a lawyer. He was a congressman who was appointed by Nelson Rockefeller at one point to succeed the assassinated Robert F. Kennedy, and he became a senator. Is that right? That's correct. 1968. And then your family moved to Washington then? or you were no we moved to washington at 59 when i was born actually um so he could serve in congress so people may not remember this but your father was very famous because he had been appointed as a moderate republican by nelson rockefeller also a republican and then he uh opposed the war in vietnam under richard nixon and then the johnson i guess as well and that became very difficult for him politically because many Republicans at that time wanted to support, let's say, Richard Nixon and didn't feel that a Republican opposing the Vietnam War was a good Republican, let's put it that way.

14:55So was that difficult for you or were you proud of what your father had done at the time because many people who were younger at the time were against the Vietnam War? Well, I couldn't be prouder of my father and the courage he took for him to do something that he knew was the right thing to do. It wasn't popular. And he knew at the time that he would likely lose his seat and lose the election, but he did it anyhow. And I think when we were young, he actually gathered us around. I'm one of five boys with my mother and father and said, I'm going to do this, but I will likely lose the election. But that was a lesson that stays with me to this day, that you have to do the right things regardless of the consequences.

15:38So let's go back to your growing up. You grew up in Washington, but then you moved back to New York? After he lost the election. And then you went back to where did you live afterwards? Bronxville, New York. Bronxville. And then you went to high school in Bronxville. Yes. And you were a three sports star as I understand it. You were in football, basketball, and baseball and the captain of all three of those teams in your high school. So you went to Washington Jefferson College in Pennsylvania? Yes. And when you graduated then you wrote your famous letter to the NFL, but what were you doing when you were waiting to hear back from the NFL?

16:14Were you doing, you know, working at a McDonald's or something like that? I wasn't. I took some time after the summer after I graduated, and I focused on what I wanted to do. I eventually, because I did not hear back from the NFL in a positive way until, I think, February of the year after I graduated, I worked in the steel industry briefly. I worked for Jones and Laughlin Steel, which was a good experience for me in a management training program. So eventually you get the job at the NFL. You worked for, then the commissioner was Pete Rozelle, who was the longest serving commissioner. You're the second longest serving, I guess.

16:55Is that right? I think that may be true. I hadn't thought about that. So Pete Rozelle, who was the person who helped orchestrate, he became commissioner, was only 33 years old. Right. And when the AFL and the NFL came together, so what were you actually doing in the early years? Well, I was an intern in the public relations department, so I did a little bit of everything. And I guess maybe my two big breaks were the Jets at one point needed, an intern late in the preseason, and they asked if I wanted to go over and do that. And so I had a chance to be with the Jets for one season, and it was a remarkable experience for me.

17:31To be on the club level and understand what they go through, you know it. It's different than what we do in the league level, and it was an incredibly valuable experience. But I went back. After the season, I was actually asked by one of the coaches, the defensive coordinator, Joe Gardy, to stay and be an assistant coach. And I decided I wanted to go back to the NFL, even though I didn't really have an opportunity there. I was still an intern for another year and a half. I thought it was the right thing and what I wanted to do. Pete Rozelle was a hero of mine, and I wanted to work for him, and I loved it.

18:04I thought the NFL played a really important role in society and had a great future. So you ever thought if you'd stayed with the Jets, you could one day have become a football coach at the NFL? I could have. I probably wouldn't be with the Jets anymore. As you know, their tenure doesn't last very long, so I think I made the right choice, David. So in 2006, you became the commissioner. Yes. And so now people are probably wondering, what does the commissioner actually do? It's a great title, the commissioner, but it's an awkward position in the sense that you're employed by the owners, but you have to sometimes penalize the employers.

18:40Otherwise, if they do something wrong, you have to fine them sometimes, and sometimes they're not happy with you. So how does that work where you have to please the people who are your employers, but also sometimes you have to fine them? Well, I always say just don't get 24 owners in one day pissed off at you. That's one thing. But I think the real issue here is, yes, you're hired by the owners, they select you. But I think the commissioner's ultimate role is to protect the integrity of the game and to grow the game. And that happens by balancing a lot of interest, including players and coaches and owners and partners and the general public and our fans.

19:28there, ultimately you work for all of them. And that's how I look at this job. I look at this job as I have a responsibility to each one of them to make sure that we secure this game for the future, that we put the best product on the field, and that our game continues to grow in a way that I think people are proud of. And so the thing I'm most proud of is not just the quality of the game, but the fact that the NFL has become the big tent that brings people together. And ultimately, I think it's one of the few things that does bring people together in today's society. So when you're a sports fan, one of the pleasures of being a sports fan is you get to root for your team.

20:10But you can't root for anybody, I assume, right? I always say, and this is true, I root for the team that's behind. Okay. And the officials. But when you're at a game, how many games do you typically go to at a year? Roughly 25 to 30. All right, so when you go to a game, everybody's watching you. You can't, when somebody does a great play, you can't jump up and say, great, because you're rooting for one team if you do that. So how do you sit there kind of passively watching a game? Well, I'm okay with rooting for a great play because that's what we love to see, right? That's one of the things people come for is the great play.

20:43I don't root for a specific team. And do you ever go in the locker rooms and talk to the players or see the players or you try to avoid that? No, I try to see them probably well before the game. When you're getting ready for a football game and you're in the locker room, the last person you want to see is a commissioner. So I choose carefully when I see them. But I spend a lot of time talking and communicating with players. I think it's important to understand their perspective. They're incredibly smart and passionate about the game and have a really important perspective that is important for us to hear.

21:19So on the commissioner, when you're dealing with players, you have to fine them sometimes too. Is that awkward to fine them? Sometimes you had a fine, I think, or not a fine, but you had to deal with Tom Brady and the famous deflate gate issue. The policies and the rules of the league are paramount. And so whether it's an owner, whether it's a club executive, whether it's a player, whether it's a coach, if there are violations, you deal with that with discipline, whether that's fines and or suspensions, ultimately. And it's important that you be thoughtful on that. It's not my favorite part of the job, and thankfully, it's a small part of my job.

21:57But when I first came into this position, it was clear that we needed to make some changes with respect to enforcement of our policies, particularly off the field, because they reflect on every single player or every single coach or every single club and our fans. And so we wanted to raise that bar and we wanted to make sure the great people who played this game, coached this game and are involved with this game were meeting the highest possible standards on and off the field. So would you recommend to people that they aspire to become commissioner because it's such a great job? Or you say not for another 10 years or so should somebody want to be commissioner?

22:36No, I encourage it. As a matter of fact, I've met some several people. But I think, listen, there's a there's a time frame on how long you do this job. And I think, you know, as you said, Pete Rossell did this 29 years. I'm 19 now. So there'll be a time when it's needed to be a change that's in the best interest of the NFL, and that's an important thing. When you're very young, you're too young to be president of the United States. Presidents are in their late 70s these days, and you're just 65, I guess. Yes. So you've got a ways to go. You've signed a new contract, I think, that extends your term through 2027.

23:14So have you thought about anything past there, or it's too early to say? No, I have a full day. that takes up a lot of my focus and thoughts. That's where I keep it. Thanks for listening. To hear more of my interviews, you can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen.