Casey Neistat (The Untold Story): "I was a homeless dad at 15 & had $200k debt!"...The Crazy Story Of How I Became The World's No.1 Video Creator!

27:06And for those people those that do have this aspiration to start that business or I don't know become a ballet dancer in Europe or whatever that are held back by potentially some form of fear. You know is there is there anything that one can offer them to get them just to take that that first initial step which seems to be the hardest like getting off the couch or getting out of quitting the job. You you might offer to your children if they came to you yeah I just think that failure is I think failure is like greatest gift I think failure is like it hurts so bad but failure is like is a part of life and if you're not willing to accept that I feel you're part of it you've got to keep failing.

27:51Andville the story of anville you know this I made a whole video about this time of YouTube video about this and then the leads the there's a movie called anvil I think it's called the story of anvill or something like that. Anvil was this like big hair rock band in the eighties and they opened for like death leopard 50 ,000 people kind of thing but they never had lined they never broke through. They were the always the opening act they were always like the brides made never the bride. And the movie opens showing these huge concerts in the eighties and anvil just rocking out and then it cuts and it shows the lead singer.

28:27And he lives in Canada and he drives a little van he delivers food to old people making minimum wage like barely able to keep his head above water. And he performs still in his leather outfits is like this middle age 50 year old guy to like six people and they'll be just drinking beer and he's there giving it is all. And the movie is about how relentless this guy like he's just not well he borrow money from his sister to record an album nobody buys it can't pay her back she said kids and shit like it is the most devastating story you've ever seen. Because he's unwilling to give up that dream like he just wouldn't let it go this is whole life.

29:03And this documentary comes out it's fucking fantastic and because of the documentary and will blows up and all of a sudden he is that superstar like on tour selling out arenas in Japan and shit like he did it. Had he given up at any point in time. The documentary wouldn't have an interest in which is another person to throw in the towel but they made this like a filmmaker saw this story is like that's crazy I need to tell that story and it yielded that sex. Had he not been willing to take on 40 years of failure 30 years of failure. He would have never found success. And I think that's the most extreme version of that reason why I was interrupting myself is because I made that YouTube video about that's basically the story I just told you and like the director reached out and was like whatever the guy's name the lead singer Vanville he's like dude he loved your YouTube video.

29:55I was like yeah I'm a starstraight. But I think failure is overrate I think failure people are so scared of failure and I think the fear of failure is that it's the fear of what other people are going to think about you. Persistence that's what I heard through that story as well just this almost objectively delusional persistence towards a goal and I don't know if those words are correct because in that situation I. I question whether andville success was ever really making it or the journey itself was the success but in your story I see the same level of like persistence that a bystander would go that guy's crazy because those various stats I saw about how long it took you to get to various success milestones even when you started daily looking I think it took you five years.

30:45So I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's the reason I think that's like persistence.

31:13You don't mean we'll never say patience patience is so unattractive. And when people say and like what's the one piece of advice you give to an aspiring creator or you know patience like patience above focal 사람이. Because like if you're not willing to give up. If you're not willing to stick with it. For you will find success, or you'll die trying which case fuck it like whatever you know you're not going to be that person in the palliative care says I wish I hadn't given up because you didn't give up You just kept going. You're going to be that person who's like, I've got one day left. I can still pull this shit off.

31:46But patience is a really unsexy way of saying it. I think you need to remove the sexiness. You need to remove the sensationalism that inspiration has been perverted with is this idea of like it's this romantic, beautiful thing. It's not. It's fucking awful. Like failing year in and year out and having everybody roll their eyes at you. And like, you know, whether you're a musician is performing at the mall and no one paying attention to you or you're that YouTuber uploads and you get zero views. Like it's fucking awful. It's embarrassing. You're a loser. Like you talked to Mr. Beast Jimmy and it's like his war stories from when he started YouTube and he was using his like mom's busted compact computer with a built -in webcam, making these videos that no one watched.

32:37They're all deleted, scrum from the internet now. They're terrible. And just like him going to school the next day and it's like two of his friends from school saw him and both acknowledge how terrible they were. That kind of like being told you're that's failure. Being told you suck over and over and over and over and over and then seeing how much you suck be quantified by a lack of views or no one showing up to your concert or no one laughing at your jokes because you're a stand -up comedian or no one showing up your restaurant because you're a chef. Like that sucks. Starting on a mind store no one buys your fucking t -shirts.

33:14That sucks. Failure sucks. So like combine that with patience. Like that suck are you willing to do that for 20 years? If you're not don't fucking bother man, don't bother. And that's why I like the the planeness of the word patience. Is because it that is what it is. There's nothing persistence. Persistence is like, ah, you're at mile 22. Persist man, you'll get across the finish line in four short miles. That's beautiful and fun and hardcore. That patience that you and Mr. Beast have both shown and many others. Where does it come from? Because objectively any sane person, if everyone's telling them they're a loser and they suck and their parents are saying you better go get a real job.

33:56Anyone who's acting in line with their parents, their apparent incentives in that moment would quit. I think very simply it comes for me. I think probably for Jimmy too, we've talked about it. He and I have talked about it. But there's no plan B. There's no other option. You know, like I had no backup plan. There was nothing else I could do. It wasn't like I had a college education and there was like a job in an ad agency waiting for me where I could just say, fuck it and you'll make 80K a year and get a nice apartment and relax and have a nice go of it. It was like if this doesn't work, I'm back in the kitchen making 725 in an hour, like you know, getting money from the state so I can pay for like groceries on a fucking wick as on WIC.

34:40Women, infants and children, it was a car, you'd swipe it and you would pay for your diapers and milk and that's it. If you tried to buy like an intendo with it, it wouldn't work. Like that, I remember that. That was the fallback. That was the alternative. Every single turn, that was the alternative. Like I moved to New York City and I was here for three months. I had a three month sublet that my brother's ex -girlfriend paid for. She was like, how long did the money? And I was like, cool. It was her parents credit card that paid for it. And it was like $1 ,800, $600 a month, $400 a month for three months.

35:13I shared it in any event. That lease was out. I had nowhere to live in New York and I was like, fuck what I do now and I moved in with some, this guy was like, hey man, I need extra money. If you want to sleep on my couch, my dad pays my rent so you could sleep on my couch and just give me like $300 a month. And that way the money goes to me and I was like, deal. And I slept on his couch for exactly 11 nights from September 1st to September 11th, 2001. And then the morning of September 11th, the entire apartment blew up with me in it and him in it. And I remember like later that day, like getting on the phone with my dad and like the towers are still on fire.

35:52And my dad being like, I think it's time for you to come home now, come back. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, what are you talking? What do you mean? Why would I come back? And he was like, terrorists blew up your apartment. You have no job. You have no prospects. You have no money. And now you have nowhere to sleep. I'm like, I'll figure that out. I'll be fine later dad. Like that's that, that's patients. That's delusional patients. But you asked why? Like what fuel is that patient? The plan B was literally moving back to South Eastern Connecticut and getting a job in a restaurant.

36:28I read a study once about this whole idea of plan A thinking and they take a group of people and they tell them to do a puzzle and it and in exchange for doing the puzzle, correctly, they'll get a snack. So they take two groups and they say, okay, do this puzzle. If you don't correctly, you'll get a snack. Then they take another group and they say, do the same puzzle. If you do it correctly, you'll get a snack. But then they say to the group, you can also get the same snack just down the hall in the vending machine. And in the second group where they're given a plan B to get the snack, motivation level, levels drop, they spend less time trying to do the puzzle and their performance towards doing the puzzle, plummet as well.

37:05Just by being aware that they can get the same reward down the hall, performance drops. And if there was ever a case for this psychology and they've done this multiple times in multiple studies, but it is pretty solid evidence that even the presence of a plan B can reduce motivation towards your plan A. Completely, completely. I mean, I wish I knew that study because it's such a beautiful, beautiful illustration of what it is and also what it means to have a knife at your back. They remember the thing I used to say back then when I first started to find success, and I would always be like, my life is like I'm running from a pack of starving rolls.

37:45If I slow down at all, I will be eaten alive. Like I have one choice and it's like keep going as fast as I can or I'll be torn to pieces. And that's what it felt like. And I love that. Like that sounds some like negative and dark, but like I love that. It was such like a motivation. And I pitted the friends. I remember I first moved to New York City in my first summer here. I don't know how, but I like fell in with this like click of because I felt the girls were pretty, but like these rich kids. And I'd go out with them. I just remember like the way they would pick up the tab. And they're my age from like 19, 20 years old and they're picking up like you know, hundreds of dollar bar tabs and like always had taxis like a taxi to me was like, you know, it's like a private jet.

38:28They're like they were like I had all this money and I would always kind of look at them with this kind of like jealousy and like it was less of a jealousy and more just fantasize like, imagine if I was the same age I'm now, but I had a credit card with unlimited amount of money. Like I went to her apartment. She was like the 26th floor. She has a two bedroom apartment and she lives alone. I'm sharing a 200 square foot studio with strangers. I met on Craigslist. We have to wait and line to use the bathroom in the morning. And I fantasize about what that would be like. And then seeing as they got older and as I got older, they're sort of the sort of wandering and not sure where they want to go in life.

39:08And all of that was for me. It was such a, you know, there was such a defined path. Because I didn't have any of those luxuries or any of those benefits that I now look at back at that as like being virtuous. So how do you do that for your kids? Well, that's the million dollar question. Because it's like I never want my kids to feel that that bullshit that I had to feel like the shame of like always hiding in the bathroom when the bill came. I would always do something. I wasn't just like a total take. But like I just, you know, like I always kind of felt like a scumbag. Because I was never able to contribute the way that other people were.

39:45And like that's a really shameful thing. Like I can remember so many times. When I was a young lady and she'd be like, I can be back to your place and the excuses that I would come up with. Because I lived in an SRO for a while. I lived in a halfway house that I bribed my way into. A halfway house for anyone that doesn't know in Europe is a... It's where you get out of jail and you're not allowed to live normally yet in the public. So they put you into a building where they can monitor you. How did you get in there? I bribed the guy at the door. There was like a guy behind glass with like a little slot.

40:22And you'd have to check in and check out. And I went there and I was like, hey, do you have any open rooms? And he was like, no, I'm going to get out of here. And I came back with a cart and a cigarette so the $100 bill in it. And I was like, I need a room. And he was like, all right, it's like 531 as yours, right? Your name there. It means like it's $450 a month cash or whatever it was. Interestingly, when you tell that story of being in a halfway house and having no money in all these things, objectively someone looks at that situation and goes, oh man, I feel so sorry for you. I was so psyched.

40:49But this speaks to how a mindset and a perspective can turn Helen to heaven or heaven into hell. Yeah, I mean, like I, the reason why I learned about that is it was my, I had a friend, her cousin lived there. And he was like, here's how I got it. I bribed the door guy. And he's like, it's cool. It's like don't talk to anybody in the building. And he's like, you know, some of the people in here are undocumented immigrants. And a lot of them are like, they just got out of jail. I was like, okay, that's cool. And he's like, some of them are homeless people that were given these rooms. I'm like, okay, I can handle all that.

41:23They like told me the whole thing of how to get in there. There's no bathroom and no kitchen. How did this change, Casey? I know the video had come into your life around. Video came in my life before I met you. Before I met you. That was the catalyst is my baby mama dumped me. I came into New York to hang around my brother, Vann, who I like worshiped. And he had just bought, he was in like, temp work. He lived in Brooklyn. He had bought the first I'm act like the one that was like, shaped like a big blue TV. And it came with like footage of like a dog in a plastic like kitty pool of pool for children to play and the dog was getting a bath.

42:05So you can play edit with the footage that came with it. And he and I would just kind of edit that footage over and over. So we got a camera. So I bought a camera and he had a computer. And I came in and we'd like film stuff and edit videos of it. And I was like, I can figure this out. And I like maxed out a credit card and started making terrible videos. And then I was like, that's it. I'll become a filmmaker. And then I moved to New York. Like it was one of the three things I brought to New York. And I moved here. It was this huge I'm act and like a backpack full of clothes. And then like my BMX bike, which was stolen the next day.

42:34And you're like 19. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was it? Do you ever think about the psychological reasons why you were so drawn to video and storytelling generally? I don't know. I have an answer to that. But I don't know if this is the why I was drawn to it or maybe I've just said this so many times it's become my default response. But I definitely felt like I never had a voice. You know, I think it's because I was like that third out of four kids. Or like I never did well in school. I was always in trouble. So teachers never listened to me. I was always in trouble in getting in fights and stuff. So my friends, parents never liked me.

43:10And I just felt like I was never heard. And then I started to make videos. I was able to kind of articulate my thoughts or an idea in the form of video. And people respond to that. So I think that was part of it. But I don't know. I think I also just liked it. Like there's something about it that felt so fun. And there was something in the end that you would have. That was like this finished done thing. Did you like movies? Yeah, but I was never like a cinephile as a kid. You know, I had my favorites. You know, like I love the movie big. And I do remember in seventh grade we got to do this program where you could like choose a profession.

43:48I think I could do that job. And like there's a Pfizer pharmaceutical. I had like its headquarters in nearby towns. Like a lot of the kids went there to be chemists or scientists. I think I've just been like two hours at Pfizer. There's a submarine military base. A lot of kids got to go on to the base and see what it's like to be in the Navy. And mine was I want to work at a video rental store. Because I want to get paid just sit and watch movies all day. And I like, all right, I guess we could work on that for you. And I remember going there and it was like this kid and he was like, yeah, I work the day shift.

44:22Nobody ever comes by and I was like, what are we doing? He's like, we have to put away those movies and it took like three minutes. And I was like, now what are we doing? He's like, just wait for customers. So we just sat there and watch TV for like eight hours. I was like, this is a job I could get into. But I don't think it was like the, you know, like the Quentin Tarantino where he worked in a video store and studied film. I never had that. Do you think that's part of the reason you were successful at it though? Because your style has always been so clearly original in so many ways. That's how it feels.

44:50It feels like you are in fact, when I didn't go to a movie school. And that's why people resonate with it. Yeah, I always say that like my filmmaking style is because I was never taught the right way to do it. So I was forced to find my own way to do it. And I think that kind of thinking is at the same time as sort of like consumer grade video creation became this ubiquitous thing with computers and editing software and cameras. For the first time ever in the history of humanity, you could like the early 2000s. You could buy like a DVD, digital video camera, you could buy a computer and plug it in, you could edit your own videos.

45:26So my aspiration to make videos and this machine that let you do it, those happened at the exact same time. And because of that is forced to create my own style. Like my hard drive was 10 gigabytes. I could edit like, it was like 12 or 16 minutes of video before the hard drive was full. So no, I made really short videos and that's why. It's like I didn't have a choice. I had to be a short video. But I do think yeah, like the lack of formal education and that capacity forced me to be a different kind of filmmaker. Third approach is definitely anyway. Do you look back? I'm so compelled by originality as like a subject and the power of originality.

46:07Because when you, when a couple of people in society or the world or business or creativity or movies take the risk of being original, the issue is they draw in a, and that originality is resonant. They draw in a big audience who then look up to them and almost confuse their admiration for that person with their aspirations for themselves and go, I will create like Casey. And that is the way to be successful. It's a very logical deduction, but it's clearly flawed because there can be no other case. It was tremendously flawed. It's what I fucking hate about YouTube. I call this like the Mr. Beastification of YouTube.

46:47And I have to be very careful here. Jimmy's a genius. What Mr. Beast has done on YouTube is brilliant and it's because of his brilliance. So this is not to take away from him at all. I think he is incredible what he's done. And he has no control over the fact that millions of people are trying to copy him. But the fact that millions of people are trying to emulate what he's doing, that is the Mr. Beastification of the platform that I hate. Because Jimmy's always been very honest. His goal has never been like, ask me my goal. And now in the most sort of intellectual of terms, I'll look back at it.

47:23And I'll be like, video for me has always been a way of a refined self -expression for me to take my thoughts and force them into this sort of articulate six, eight -minute, compartmentalize a little video and share it with the world. Like that's been my motivation. Jimmy's from day one has just been fine success. He was a kid who had no money, had no resource, he had no friends, he had nothing. And he's like, this is a tool I can use to take me to the highest planes of business and all of that. Jimmy is just as passionate about his chocolate company, feasible. As he is about his video creation company, Mr.

47:56Beast Enterprise. He's just as passionate about his philanthropy being successful and helping as many people as possible. As he is about making a video about what it means to live in a million -dollar house. Like his passion is about that winning. So for him, it's beautiful. But in the most reductive sense, when people look at that, they're like, hey, that's what it means to be a YouTuber. All that matters is views. And I put next to no value on that. No. Again, this isn't the takeaway from Jimmy because what he's done is incredible. But when people aspire just to get that view count up, to me, it's a race to the bottom.

48:30I fucking hate it. I hate it. And I do think it's because of people not knowing what to do. So they look to see, well, who's successful? That's how I'm successful. Let me be that. And it will never work. It will never work. It requires sort of an introspection of like, no, why do I want to do this? What is true to me? And then you go and do that. And maybe you'll find success and maybe you won't. But at least it'll be true. Why does truth end up mattering more in that case than views? So if there's one path here and I can get a million subscribers by just doing a Jimmy or Casey knockoff channel, or there's this other path which I go, oh, there's no blueprint here.

49:09And it's never been done before. And I don't think anyone's going to like this stuff. And it's probably not going to pay my bills. Why, what's the case for pursuing the latter, the true path? I think that truth lasts. Truth matters. Like there's a direct, there's no correlation rather between the movies that have won best picture. I mean, the Academy Award for Best Picture over the last 80 years. And the highest -grossing movies. Those two things have been the same like three times, four times. Like one of them I think was gone with the wind. Meaning that the movies that the world determines are the most quality, most important, greatest films, the greatest contribution to culture and humanity are almost never the same movies that make the most money.

49:56Transformers 9 was a really cool movie. I don't fucking remember what happened. And there's a dinosaur in it. But like, you see a movie that affects you. You see a movie that that matters to you. You see it. Little Deeter needs to fly. This documentary by Werner Herzog. You see the Anvil story. And you're thinking about it. I haven't seen that Anvil story in five years. I think about that movie every day. That lasts. So that matters. And me as a 40 -tier -old grown adult, like, I know in life, that's what matters. There's always going to be junk food. There'll always be an appetite for it. There'll always be an appetite for fucking reality TV and bullshit.

50:36And you know, like whatever pop stars are popular this week. And we'll disappear next week. But the musicians that like change you. The ones that write that song that like, makes you cry. Like, you'll never forget that. So for me, like, if you want to be an artist, or you say you want to be an artist, how could there be any other goal but that? And just to bring this full circle. I think the magic of Mr. B. is a Jimmy in particular. I don't think he's ever wanted to be an artist. And that honesty is why I have so much respect for him. He's an empire builder. And that's what he's wanted to do. And he's done that through video creation.

51:13But again, neither here nor there are not to digress. For me, it's like great work matters. And it does. It changes people. It changes me. Look at the work that like Spike Jones did. Not his Oscar award -winning movies. But like I look at his little weirdo music videos. And I used to watch when I was a kid. And I watched those music videos over and over. What's up, Fatlip? The music video that he made with Fatlip, who was like the kind of a popular hip -hop artist who didn't have any money. And he's like, I got this new song Spike, but I don't mean money to make the video. So they went out and they're like, put Fatlip in a clown costume.

51:48They filmed it on a VHS camera. It's like one of my favorite music videos ever. But I saw that and I was like, I can be a filmmaker. Now if you made a video just trying to get the most user whatever it was instead of just him and his friend Fatlip trying to make something great, it might not have done that for me. And that changed my world. So like, if you're going to share your fucking inspirational quotes on Instagram and step up, like make the thing that could change the world, make the thing that could affect someone. So just give me Mickey Mouse bullshit that's going to get views. I look at both you and Jimmy as pioneers, but for very different reasons.

52:25And seemingly with very different motivations. You strike me as someone that was really inspired by the art form and the storytelling side of like the creative production process. And Jimmy took this, seems like he took this other approach where it was much more about what the data was telling him to make. Yeah. Both of them created a originality though. Completely. You know? Completely. I think Jimmy is in the history of, I think Jimmy is the most important YouTuber in the history of YouTube. And I think that arguably I think he's one of the most important people in the history of entertainment.

53:01Full stop. I don't know that anyone has built an empire that reaches as many people as what he's doing. I think like there will be case studies taught about him at Harvard. I think what he is a true pioneer in every sense of the word. Do you care about the views? No, but that's easy to say. I'm like, you know, I don't worry about paying rent anymore. And I kind of usually don't check the prices at restaurants before I order dinner. So it's easy for me to say.

53:35Obviously, there was a time when that really mattered to me. It was super, super important to me. But I've grown up and I've, you know, a level of financial security, which is super real. So it's less about that and more about doing good work. If one of your kids came to you and they said, Dad, I want to be a YouTuber. And what would be your response to just that first surface level question? I mean, it's happened. Little friend of mine is like, she's so good too. But Candace always gets not mad, but she's always like, take it easy, Casey, because I have a tendency to over intellectualize it. But I'm like, Fran, you can make whatever you want, but you're not allowed to share it.

54:15And she's like, why? I want to get subscribers and views. And I'm like, well, if you make it, like, I just want to make sure you're making it for you, because you want to make something, not because you're looking for that. I don't know words I use with her, but like that validation. I don't know if she would know that word, but and that's when Candace is like, take it easy, Casey. She's eight. And I'm like, okay, all right, just do your thing, kiddo. But, um, yeah, I think like the concern. What is the concern? Is why? Like if she wants to do it, because she wants to be an artist, fuck yes, I will drop everything to help you on this mission.

54:53If you want to do it, because you're a little girlfriend at school, did it and she got 35 likes and you want to get more likes than her, then like pump the brakes, kid. Like, that's, you know, like that's what if she says, I want to be bigger than Mr. Beast? The same thing. Then, you know, it's like, why? Like why? Why do you want to do that? You know, and also like, I have fame is a very weird, very strange thing. And I think that what the most strange thing about fame is, it's not what you think like, there are people who have achieved and felt some degree of fame and there are people who haven't.

55:33And if you're in the haven't camp, there's no way to understand the have camp. There's no way. There's no way. And, um, having been over here, you know, like to see someone aspire for that is like, you know, I like no way. What's the warning? The warning is just like if, if, if fame is a byproduct of what you're doing, then it is what it is. But if fame is the end game, then you're just like one of those fucking reality stars or the fucked up faces because you've had so much plastic surgery and like, what are you doing? What are you offering the world? Like why are you here? Like you're giving your, you're benefiting the world in no way whatsoever.

56:17You're elevating the world zero. This is pure like narcissism. This is just, just, just for some weird ego journey that you're on. Um, again, this is one of those moments of my wife, like, back off KC, she's eight that are finished her mac and cheese. I wouldn't say that the kid, but like, yeah, she says I want to be bigger than Mr. Bees. Like, then yeah, I get nervous. What does she say? She says, okay, I want to do, I want to make YouTube videos because I love creating videos, but I would like some advice that add on how to be a successful YouTuber. Yeah, you should see her. She has a whole channel that is stop frame animations of her stuffed animals.

56:54She's not allowed to have a voice in it or hands in it. You know, not allowed to identify this in our apartment, but she makes those and they're fucking great and they're funny and they're really good. So that like, yeah, we support, we support her so much. We buy the equipment, we help her make it. We're part of the audience. We have like a family, I message thread that we distribute the videos on. Um, she even has her own Instagram handle that has zero followers. Candace and I don't follow it. We pass the phone around to watch her Instagrams because we don't want her to even associate one like with why she's doing it.

57:29Even if that like is from us. My sister texted and was like, hey, you, you sent me a screen capture of Francine's TikTok or whatever. He sent me her account, really no. This is clearly coming from your experience. Yeah, for that time as long as you can man. Keep the kids so far away from that. Keep them far away from views and likes. Yeah, from seeking validation. Did you ever fall prey to that? Uh, I never fall prey to that. Yeah, but I'm different because I'm I was old. Like I was literally your age that you are right now sitting across from me before I had an Instagram account. Think about how much more you know than an eight year old.

58:15Like for an eight year old, that's the world that she's going to have. It's a really scary place. Like social media, we're seeing our ship fucks kids up. We're seeing the mental health crisis. We're seeing our manifest thing. We're seeing eating disorders because of Instagram. We're seeing like all these social issues because of social media. And I think wanting to protect your kids from that is sort of a universal thing. Not just someone who has lived in that space. You know, I think about I have had a unique experience with it because I was had achieved some level of success outside of social media in the world of regular old media.

58:51And then it was on social media that I found real success. But I was able to do that with that kind of hindsight and with that kind of clarity of being an adult, being pursuing this career for 15 years before. On social media, you found real success. Yeah. Was that due to your daily vlog predominantly? Is that the was that the real catalyst moment? Yeah. You know, 100%. You know, like I, I, Van and I, my brother, Van and I had a television show on HBO that we sold to HBO in 2008. And that television show was exactly my daily vlog. Full stop. Any episodes or something? Eight episodes. 22 minutes, 22 to 24 minute episodes.

59:29But if you watch that daily show, it looks like an early version of my vlog. It's identical. It's the same exact shit. But that was before YouTube was really a thing. YouTube was invented in 2006. And it was really just a place for watching like basketball highlight Reels and like, it's probably been my finger. So, you know, we put that show on HBO. Very highly reviewed, but nobody watched it. It was on it midnight on Friday nights. Like it wasn't a breakout success. And then Van moved to California. So it's kind of on my own. And I was like, I just want to do that. So I tried to sell it to MTV.

1:00:06And they didn't get it. They're like, we know this is great. Like I showed it to someone there and they brought me in and I met with the heads of MTV. Like met with some really powerful people. I mean, like this is the only thing we've ever seen. This is fantastic. But we're not sure this works on TV. I was like, it was really cool. And then, yeah, and then I put it on YouTube. And how did that go? Well, you know, you talked about the numbers before. Like so before my daily vlog, I was considered like a successful YouTuber. I got celebrated YouTuber. I think it was 280 ,000 subscribers. And it had taken me almost a decade to get there.

1:00:39I started my YouTube channel in 2007 maybe. And by 2014, 2015, I had 280 ,000 subscribers. And a couple of movies that went truly viral that had like five, 10 million views. All of my movies did more than like 50, 60 ,000 views, which is amazing. And people liked my videos. Like the New York Times on my YouTube videos and like make videos for us as we nat back then. So by all definition, very successful on YouTube. But then I started my daily vlog. And it took whatever that was, eight years ago from zero to a couple of hundred thousand subscribers. And my daily vlog went from a couple of hundred thousand subscribers to 10 million subscribers in like 18 months.

1:01:24It was a kind of like explosion that I had never felt in any other capacity in my career, my life. What's the lesson that you take away from that about consistency or compounding or, that's that thing, patience. I wasn't really doing anything different. I mean, certainly I was working much harder to create a video every day. It was hard work. But really it was just like, I had this square peg. And I tried to knock it through thousands of round holes for 15 years. And like sometimes I was able to jam it through and sometimes it would kind of fall through but I wasn't able to duplicate it. And then all of a sudden, like the moons align, like the fucking planets align, Pluto was lined up, the sun, the sun shined through, like right as the locks arc, the light came through, the city illuminated.

1:02:16And like 2015 YouTube was just becoming something more. So first generation that grew up on YouTube. Like it had been around for, you know, nine years and people had a relationship with this platform. And no one was doing anything of any significant production quality. And I had 15 years of experience in making short videos. And I brought all of that to YouTube. And then just the episodic aspect of it. So it was like, you know, make one video of me running around New York City, hanging around my wife having lunch, doing something else, and then the video's over. And it's like, oh, who's this funny looking guy in New York, whatever.

1:02:53Do that seven days in a row. And you're like, oh, this is kind of fun. I get to hang out with this guy. Do it 300 days in a row. And it's like, I become part of your life. And that's just snowballs. I get snowballs in every way. Snowballs algorithmically. And that's what those, that quantitative explosion was. It's snowballs financially, because you get paid whatever. Call it a 10th of a cent per view. And that doesn't mean much if you're getting 10 views. But if you're getting 100 million views, the money starts to become substantive. Brands, the kinds of companies you always want to work with.

1:03:26Maybe one out of every 100 creative directors at an agency has seen your videos. But I'll send you from getting 100 ,000 a month to 100 million a month. And now every creative director has seen your videos. They're like, we want to work with that guy. And it just, it just was, you know, just it happened so quick and was so explosive and so exciting and so fun. Sounds like that was your annual moment in some respects. Like, you'd put in 15 years of work. And then your craft and patience had met opportunity in a way. And people might look at this moment and go, oh, that was, you know, that's luck because, you know, you just, but what is the rebuttal to that?

1:04:03What's the like? They're right. It was luck. But like luck is, what is it? Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. I had just been preparing myself for that moment for 15 years, you know, and then the opportunity opened up and I was right there. And the truth is, like most of us, the opportunity just flies by us all day. Every day when I'm ready for it. I was seeking it for that long. And, you know, there's some other circumstances too. My friend Max, playing this out to me and he and I were having a meeting last week, which was like, when I launched that YouTube channel, the daily vlog, rather when I launched that in 2015, I had had a show in HBO that they bought for $2 million.

1:04:42I had had movies that I produced two of them in the Cannes Film Festival. I won the Casa Verde's Award at the Independent Spirit Awards, which was like the Academy Awards for indie films. Like, I had worked in New York Times. I made movies for Nike. I had worked for myself at that point in time for 12 years in my own studio. I had by every definition achieved success. But the exact time I launched that YouTube channel, I was $200 ,000 in debt. Meaning, I was more broke than when I was on welfare, getting checks for my kid, because I was so deep in debt, because, you know, the year preceding that, I was invited to MIT as a fellow.

1:05:30And as a high school dropout, it was like no greater honor than to get to go to one of the most prestigious academic institutions on the planet and be invited there. And I remember going there being like, whatever I do on the other side of this, it's gonna be different from what I'm doing now. And what I was doing there was making TV commercials and doing fun stuff like that, a good career. Around that time, you read this book. Yeah. What was so inspiring or perspective shifting about that book, hatching Twitter? It wasn't around that time. So I went to MIT as a fellow. I worked out of the MIT Media Lab.

1:06:07And my lab group was called the social computing group. And it was, you know, 8 or 10 technologists, one artist was a painter, and then me. And I never, I'm still this day, I don't know what I was doing there. I'm incredibly close to the professor. I talked to him all the time. He's since left there, and he is a mentor of mine, somebody to speak to regularly. I still don't know what I was doing there. So mostly I just observed. I was given no assignment. I just observed. And I did many friends. I was living in Boston. My pregnant wife is alone in New York City hating me because I abandoned her.

1:06:42And I read this book. And all I knew is that when I was there, I wanted to figure out what to do next. And the magic of hatching Twitter, by the way, Nick built in this since we come a good friend. But the magic of this amazing book is it reveals the madness that was a technology startup, like the chaos. Like, you know, these guys are all very smart. All the guys that started Twitter. But like, I don't think they're smarter than me. Like, I think that like, there's like, you have like regular people and like smart people. And then like, these geniuses that you just can't relate to. And I think that like, I live somewhere between like regular and close to smart, but not fully smart.

1:07:26And I think these guys were like, they're just smart, persistent people that wanted to do something. I was like, I can do what they did. I can do that. And when I left MIT, I was like, I'm going to start a technology company. And I didn't know what that meant, but it just sounded like a great idea. But the whole time I was at MIT, I wasn't making any money. So I was living off my credit cards and off my debt. My business had a revolving line of credit at Chase Bank that was maxed out. And then I started this company, which was basically just meeting with people, telling them I wanted to start a company.

1:07:59And yeah. And so six months later, I was $200 ,000 in debt. I couldn't afford my half of rent. But I owed to my wife who was pregnant. And that's when I started a daily vlog and started a technology company. And it made sense. But the reason I give that long preface is about like, I found all this success. It was like, I found all that success. I knew there was snack down the hall if I didn't want to do the puzzle. And I was like, fuck that. Let me burn it to the ground. Like, let me go $200 ,000 in debt and do something that I have no idea. I've never been in a line of code in my life. Let me start a technology company.

1:08:33Let me start a software development company. I still never had a line of code in my life. But let me do that. That's a good pursuit for me. And that's what I did. I don't know where I'm not sure what I was thinking. What were you thinking? I don't know. It felt like a great idea. It also like, how old are you at this point? You look 35, 35? Yeah. And I also like, those guys were such superstars. And you like Mark Zuckerberg, like that in the social network, the community, the social network, that scene that juxtaposes him, just sitting in his dorm room writing code with all the cool kids getting on that bus.

1:09:06You're on the party with all the hot girls. And he's just I was like, I want to be that guy. And also, like, I didn't think of anything more explosive. It was like, I was still, you know, I had financial success. But like, the two million bucks from the HBO thing didn't make me a millionaire. It's like, cut it in half from taxes. You're at a million payback or investor. You're 400 ,000 left over. There's two of us give half that to they and it's $200 ,000. And then three years goes by. And it's like, you're making like middle class income for three years. You know, we're not rich. And I was like, I want to be rich.

1:09:36Like, I want to be a billionaire. Let me start a tech company. That's how I get there. I'm qualified. I mean, when I look through your story, I see someone who was seemingly unqualified to pursue the things that he pursued over and over again. You weren't qualified to get into movies. There was no formal education by any objective standards. You weren't qualified to be starting a tech company. What is unqualified? And Mike, because I think most people would say, well, I'm not a tech entrepreneur. They would like self label and then disqualify themselves from doing that. And I think in most people's lives, they're actually spending more time disqualifying themselves, psychologically.

1:10:14But you seem to be taking the opposite approach, which is you seem to be qualifying yourself for things that you're objectively unqualified to be pursuing. I had this conversation with Candace, my wife last night, because it was like, what do we do with these little girls, our daughters, to show them they can do anything? And if they were boys, I knew what to do. If they're boys, force them to work with their hands. Like, it's one of my regrets in my son. My son is 25 now. He's a superstar. He's fantastic. But he loved academia and I indulged him in that. And I wish I had been more forceful and encouraging him to learn to work with his hands.

1:10:54Why? Because I think you learn something about life by learning how to build and do things. There's this great South Park special that's on TV right now. And like, the handyman who like fix your broken toilet, become the billionaires, and all the intellects are standing outside of Home Depot, like holding up signs that are like, I'm a biologist. Please hire me. Like, I will trade because it's like, and they're sitting around like, I wish I had just learned to work with my hands. Why didn't anybody tell me? And I think what they're saying with that are what I feel, what I was able to deduce from that.

1:11:29It's just like, there are universal aspects of life and humanity and the world that you learn from working with your hands. And like this rule of mine, which is that if you don't know what you want to do in life, do something you hate. And through that process, you'll figure out what it is that you love. Like, I learned that I wanted to be a filmmaker by scrubbing out chatter pots and that fucking seafood restaurant in Connecticut. 40, 50 years, we just hating it. 90 degrees back there in the summer. Stinks scrubbing that pot, hated it. It's a lot of time thinking about, what do I wish I was doing?

1:12:06So for like kids, it's like, yeah, no, no, you don't get to go to college. Instead, I'm sending you to this school where you're going to learn how to rebuild diesel engines. Enjoy it. I don't know that I can do that to my little blonde hair blue -eyed daughters. So you asked me about what it means to be unqualified. I don't know. But I think like, you know, when my bicycle was broken at home and I was a little kid, like, I didn't have the tool to fix it. I first had to build the tool. Like, I couldn't fix my bike with. Like, it wasn't qualified. I had to find that qualification. And everything that I did, it was the same kind of thing.

1:12:43So why wouldn't I think that I'm qualified to do anything? It's part of that. So here you say that and thinking about this idea of being stuff with your hands. It's part of that because like, what it teaches you, and I think about your bike example there, is that when something is broken, or when there is a challenge, you're learning, you learn at that very young age that Casey can solve that problem himself. And that lesson of, I can close the gap between what I want and where I am, is like an overarching superpower for the rest of your life where it's, you know, the gap, the gap between where you are and where you want to be.

1:13:16The gap between Casey being a guy that's, you know, making videos to the tech entrepreneur. You learn very early in your life that, Casey can close the gap. And a lot of people never learn that. They think, oh, I'm unqualified to close the gap, or I don't have the skills to close the gap or the money or I'm scrubbing pots in a back room. I can't close the gap. But that's evidence. And evidence comes from, you know, closing the gap a couple of times with a bike and I had a friend DM me this week. And it was something like, I don't know what it was, but it was this thing that was like, I had to figure out who high agency individuals are or something like that.

1:13:52Like, it was like five bullet points. And number five was like the goals and question. Who would you call from George Max, friend of mine, former. Is that what it was? It was like, who would you call if you're stuck in a tie prison to break you out? Yeah. So that's George Max, who's a former, employee of one of my former companies. He's a superstar. He's an incredible guy. He does tweet threads and he did one like last week, which is how does that. Is that what I was? High agency individuals. And I think about that a lot because someone very close to me couldn't, couldn't find his partner. He couldn't find his wife.

1:14:22And in a moment of panic, he thought she had been kidnapped. And he's thousands of miles away from me. And he didn't know what to do. And he called me in that moment. He was like, what do I do? And I was like, give me all of the information. And he gave me all the information. And he was like, I need more. I'm like, ask him all these questions. I'm writing it all down. And then I'm like, what are you doing right now? He's like, I'm going to go to the police station. I'll say, do not go to the police station. Here's what they're going to do. And I'll say, this is why you don't do that. Here are the things you can do to be effective.

1:14:54Call the call the bank, find out what our last transaction was. Figure out what our password is on our iCloud account. And like going through all these facts like, do all that and call me back. And then I hung up with him and I'm like, how do I solve this problem? And it wasn't. There was never a moment of, is there someone that can solve this problem that's not me? It was that thing that's like says to their Lockheed Martin or NASA or it says in like, 100 foot letters, it won't fail because of me. Like that's what that moment was. I was like, no, I'm the only person who can solve this right now.

1:15:28And I sure enough, the next phone call that I called him was very Jason's born. I called him like 11 minutes later. And I was like, she's at the tennis club. She's asleep on the couch. And like, it was much better than my younger brother, Dean, who is a, who is an actual like jet pilot in the Air Force for helping me figure that out. But like, it was interesting. Like, there was something about the fact that he called me. There's something about the fact that I could hear in his voice a total uncertainty. And his instinct was there has to be a higher authority that can solve this problem. And how antithetical that was to my own thinking, which is there's no higher authority.

1:16:07There's no one that can solve this better than I can solve this right now. And I think I applied that to most of what I've done throughout my whole life. I remember like it was really broke way back in the day. I had a 1986, I think Volvo 240. Whatever the one that had the dual -hologin headlight was great year. And somebody crashed into the front of the car. And the estimate to fix it was like $2 ,200. And the insurance only just gave me that money. And I was like, fuck this. I was like, I can fix this car myself. I remember like my baby mama being like, what do you know about fixing cars? I'm like, how hard could it possibly be?

1:16:49And like in that moment, I like took the whole front of the car apart. I did not do a good job. I did a good enough job. And I pocketed like all of it like $150 bucks to replace those halogen headlights, like screw it all back together. I mean, before we started this podcast, you're like, Casey, what are you doing? You're talking about, I'm like, just build it out my studio. I wanted to build my girls a tree for it in there. There was never of like, what carpentry do I hire to build a tree for it? I was like, no, no, I'm going to do this. How hard can it be? How hard can, yeah, how hard can any of it be?

1:17:17Like give me a big enough pile of balls of wood and enough time. I will build you a spaceship. As a mantra for life, how hard can it be? There's an air of naivety, which is - You once you realize how hard it tends to be, it's like, I will never do a software development company again. If I knew now, if I knew then what I know now about building a company, no fucking way, no chance, there's no chance. It's sold for what, $36 million, though, which is a success. It has a success. A million failures, though, for that one success. And the failures keep me up way more than the success puts me to sleep.

1:17:57What are those failures? Some of the really key failures were the naivety that an exit is the holy grail. For me, we were all out of money. My partner Matt and I cut our salaries for the last year. I think the last couple of paychecks I was paying out of my pocket. So when we sold the company and everybody got to have a job, everybody got paid out. One of the aspects of the sale was that every employee that had equity would get a full cash payout immediately upon the sale. I thought it would be psyched, but when he told everybody, they weren't because for them it was like, no, no, we signed up to build this company with you.

1:18:41This is fun. This is a startup. This is why we didn't take twice the salary from Facebook. We wanted to do something novel with you. And now we just get to work for a big company. In that moment of feeling like I was letting down all of these people that helped me get there. It was like, yeah, I got to get this fat check. I made me a millionaire. It was like, I got to be a millionaire, but I feel like I disappointed the people who got me there. Like the people who like held me up so I could reach the top. I let all of them down. And maybe that's unfair, but that's how it felt. That's how it still feels.

1:19:16It feels weird. I have zero employees right now. I don't have an assistant. Your producer had to call a friend of ours last night to be like, I haven't heard from Casey in three weeks. Is he going to show up tomorrow? Because I don't check my email. I don't have an assistant. I don't have a schedule. I have no one. I'm not my own floors. And I think a lot of that is like the post -traumatic stress of having 35 employees at my tech company and feeling like I let a lot of them down and never wanted to feel that way again. So I'm just like fucking, I'll just mop my own floors. But I might make, I might miss an appointment.

1:19:50But there's a million failures that fall underneath that umbrella of being a manager, being a terrible manager that I think about way more than the moments of the lation that were selling that company. What was that moment like? If I zoom in on your psychology throughout that period, you go on this incredible journey to build this business, twist turns, and I mean, that's the story of most tech startups, most of them fail, most of them run out of cash. And then you get this exit. Objectively, people look at that go, oh, congratulations, amazing. You smashed it, you're rich. You got money now. What's going on in your psychology?

1:20:27The day you get the call, you call your investors, one of your investors, I think it's good friend of mine, and an investor in one of my companies, Gary Vaynerchuk, and then it's done. How are you feeling? If I was a fly inside your head? I mean, good. It was like super thrilling to get across that finish line. A month after then. So a month after that, you know, like, if it gets specific, like the company, CNN, Turner bought our company and, you know, Matt, my business partner and I signed a three -year deal with them, to stand and work with them for three years. And just to tell the finish line, they fired us 11 months later.

1:21:05I live a month later. So for the month into that, it was about how do we build this business into a success underneath this bigger company? And it was exciting. But I also think there's a huge amount of naivety on my part about what the realities of that look like. The, what I interpret as ambiguity from CNN about what to do wasn't at all ambiguity. It was them looking to me to lead. And my lack of awareness of that is something I look back at now and just sort of shake my head. Like this is what I mean by like a thousand failures. Like I can tell you, and I don't think this is an unfair characterization that like I think they bought my company because they're like this kid is a star and we want to we want his reach alone is worth this amount of money.

1:21:54And as a bonus, we're getting all of this technical know -how and skill and we're getting the brilliance of his partner and like this is a great deal for us. But we want that influence and then he'll use all these brilliant people that he has around him to help promote that influence. Like that's what they wanted. I can say that. They also wanted to exploit my reach during stupid Mickey Mouse. Like they had some million dollar deal from you know like do commercials for a watch company. I was like, guys this isn't why I want to work with you. And I said no to that and there's a huge, I can point to all these things like them being a big corporation and us being a nimble startup and them wrecking that culture.

1:22:31But the reality is the reason why we didn't succeed under CNN is because of me and only because of me. It was my failure to recognize the opportunity and build within that. And I attribute that to ego. I attribute that to naivety. Someone like you doesn't belong at CNN. Sure easy to say now. But like fuck you man, I can build a spaceship. I can do whatever I want. Fix that Volvo and build a fucking company for CNN. You know, incentivized I was like if I built that company to be a success like the incentive that they gave me worth out of this world. The people I was working with at CNN were incredible.

1:23:08They're brilliant people that the only reason it didn't succeed was because of me. And I don't know you asked how I felt a month later. But I looked back and it's like a month later is when I was probably at like peak hubris. Like I know it all. Look what I did. I know everything. 11 months later. 11 months later was just exhaustion and wanted to get out. Just let me let me like when they said we're shutting on the company. I remember it was like super weird. Like I was in South Africa with my family. And they're like we're going to let you know for the end of the year and like December 31st I like call like kind of boss at CNN.

1:23:43I'm like what's going on with the company? Are you shutting us down? Are we going to keep going? They're like we're going to talk we can get back and we got back and we're like we're going to meet here. And I'm like why don't we just meet at our offices or your offices? They want to meet like a neutral location. And there's like a head of HR or something in the meeting. And they're like we want to let you both know we've decided to shut down the company and release you from your or whatever they said. And I was kind of like okay cool. Like it was not a big thing. It was kind of what I expected.

1:24:12But it was like a sigh of relief. We really. What does your plan become for your life? After that. Yeah. You know this guy that's checking off your bucket list. The bucket list you had as a child. You've sold the company, you've built the channels. You've you know you've made a huge name for yourself in movie making. At that point 11 months later after leaving the HR meeting with the neutral location. What is what's the future? That's when it got hard. Dark. That was like a moment of real darkness in my life because not because of those external factors but just internally like the fame then was something that I just did not understand.

1:24:53Like the only way to quantify it was I had done like three billion views in two years. Something like that. And the content was all me. It was the real version of me. I wasn't playing a character. I wasn't acting. I didn't have on a Superman costume. I wasn't like I always say like I love Tyler Durden Brad Pitt character in Fight Club. But if I met Brad Pitt, he's not that person. You meet me. I am the person you think you know. And the fame was fucking insane. We had to move into a higher security building in New York City. It got scary. That kind of fame. And when I was winning, like putting a video out every day and I had this company, I was close shit to talk about.

1:25:38It was like you know you're like a posting on that. But I felt like I wasn't winning. I didn't want to do my daily show anymore. I was exhausted from it. CNN had just kind of fired me. So I wasn't building anything with them. I wasn't sure what to do. But I still couldn't step outside of that like being like just in Bieber kind of swarmed. And I didn't know what to do. And I kind of like started the Southern company called 368 with my partner at the time Paul. That was a cool project. I started up a new daily show with my other friend Dan. That was kind of exciting. But basically it just felt like a bunch of sort of slow.

1:26:13Why'd you say doc? It's a very interesting way. Because it was the first time. It was that thing that I I referred to before, which is like you attribute happiness and fulfillment with winning. And I had won. This was the first time my life where I achieved like a level of financial security that if I played my hard rights could have meant financial security for the rest of my life. For guy who couldn't afford diapers, that's a fucking journey. That is a big box on the list to check off. You know like for guy who made a drive around in my car, giving people VHS copies of my videos. I had three billion views in two years.

1:26:54That's a big box to check off. I had done those things. And instead of feeling like I was like, I had done it. I had earned it. Instead of feeling like I was standing on top of the mountain, I just kind of was like, what what what what now? Like this isn't this isn't it. It wasn't like I wasn't running the marathon because I wanted to get across the finish line. I don't know where I've run 24 marathons. I don't know where any of my medals are. I was running it because I love the running. I had loved it. And it kind of felt like that was over. And I didn't know what to do. And it kind of yeah, I got weird.

1:27:27I got dark for a little bit. That's when we decided like leave New York and moved LA. If I was a fly on the wall then in that moment in your life where it's dark and weird, what do I see in the walls of your home? Well, first of all, the house was really nice because you know, it just bought my company. It was a really nice house. Kind of spot the fancy wallpaper. But no, it was mostly like I had a little baby at the time. And then like a three year old, just kind of at home, chilling, hiding. I didn't want to go to my studio. I should be too many people outside. And yeah, just unsure, uncertain.

1:28:07Like I think so much of our decision to move. We moved to LA for like three years. It was a disaster to move back to New York. But so much of my enthusiasm to leave New York was just like I need to get away from all of this. And I pictured like LA, like I was moving to the moon. Like nobody would know me there. And I could just go to the beach every day and chill out. Couldn't have been further from the truth. But that's so there was like we decided to move to LA and we didn't move for another seven months or whatever. And those seven months were just kind of me hiding and waiting. And Candace, you've kind of indirectly made her famous as well because of that hope, you know, everything that happened in that chapter of your life, which means that both of you can't just like leave live a normal life, can't just walk down the street together.

1:28:47How is she feeling in that moment? And does that add strain to the relationship? Yeah, I mean, it was always the whole that's a whole other podcast. But like, you know, my daily show was effectively, I was just pulling stories from my life. My own real life experiences. Let me figure out how to admit turn them into a narrative. I'm coming on your podcast and let me film my journey here and then talk about what this is about in my journey home and let me make that today's video. And so it's just this vacuum and whatever was closest would get sucked in. So she's my wife. She's my partner. My best friend.

1:29:23So she would get sucked into the content all the time. Mostly she's willing and supportive, but not all the time. But I still had to make my videos. So it had this, you know, this burden on her, this stress on her. Some of it was positive. You know, she's building her own company then and it brought enough exposure to her that people like, oh, I love what she's doing. And he yielded a kind of shine to light on her brilliance as a designer and a jewelry designer and that entrepreneur herself. And she embraced all that. But ultimately, yeah, it was a big stress on our relationship. If this next 10 years of your life is a movie, what is the narrative of this, this movie?

1:30:03You're seeing Kiona Scotty. No. It's a crazy movie. There's no story at all. It's just beautiful establishing shots of cities with weird music and nothing happens. That's what I feel like my life is right now. It's just like, it's so beautiful and wonderful. I'm doing fuck all right now. I'm doing nothing. And I feel guilty because I still like, I get paid jobs and I take those paid jobs. I do them as best I can. I think I do a good job with them. But I feel a little bit like a little bit like I'm selling out or something because I still need to make a living. I still can. But I'm mostly just riding the momentum that I created years ago.

1:30:46And then just like, I race home from work every day, like 4 .30 in the afternoon. So I can be home my kids get home. Like you can ask me out to dinner. You can invite me to go to the Met Gala. I'm like, I can't man. I just go home, play with my kids every day. It's my favorite thing. I like kids go to bed, 7 .38 whatever. Go to the gym, play an hour, come home. My father can't just for an hour. Watch TV, go to bed. Like that's my life. And it's fit. And then during the day, like, go hang out my studio. It's just this clubhouse, like fun shit in it, like build stuff, make things out of wood, go home, tell Kandace I worked a lot today, play with the kids.

1:31:26I just do that over and over and over. And then it's like Christmas and we go visit our family or it's like summertime when I go to the beach. I'm just coasting through life right now. It's fantastic. Is this a new Casey? Because the other Casey seemed really like as if they were striving towards some bucket list thing that they'd written when they were a kid. This Casey seems to be yeah, I mean, look at that piece right now, but this is not a sustainable. I'm at peace right now, but I'm a hyper cognizant that this is not sustainable. Why? I mean, it's always just broke. I'm like, three years, but moreover, like the only thing that brings me a sense of true, like fulfillment in what is a big part of my life is when I make something that I think is good.

1:32:15Creatively. So like, I think I'm a good dad. That's that part of my life. And I think I'm a good husband. That's that part of the life. And I'm super fitness focused. And I care a lot about my physical existence to part of my life. But then there's the majority of the pie chart is like my professional life. And if I'm not making something, even if I make something that's good, and I don't share it or post it, that checks that, that does that. I made something great. What did I do? It's like I made my mother -in -laws for 70th birthday. And she was like, well, you make me one of those slideshows.

1:32:51And I know she was picturing like, you know, you drop all the photos into like Windows slideshow maker and push a button. I made like this great video. We like played it at her 70th birthday, all of her old lady friends. Nobody saw that. Like that did it for me. And I don't feel like I'm like, caching that check right now. I don't feel like if I'm looking at that as like a staying healthy, it's like instead of going to the gym, I'm like eating junk food instead of going for a jog. I'm like sitting on the couch. Like when I get to the office instead of like putting my head down and just making something great, which I can do, I just kind of puts around and like reorganize my tools every day.

1:33:30Do you know what I said earlier before we start recording about this word boredom? I use the word boredom not because I'm playing that nothing is happening, but so many of the creatives I've spoken to tell me that you need to have chapters and seasons in your life of like basically where you're just chilling because those, they kind of cultivate an energy towards the new thing. Maybe it gives you enough time and space to stand back from the picture to see the whole painting or to get some inspiration from something you kids asked you one day or. Yes, look absolutely. There's a pendulum and my pendulum spoke so far when I'm making a video a day, 800 days in a row while running a company with 38 employees while having a wife and a brand new baby at home.

1:34:11I didn't sleep for three years. Like I was running at full speed and millions of people with their eyes on me every day. And like you could definitely justify as a pendulum sewing in the other direction now like I just need this time to decompress. But I don't accept that because to accept that is to sort of justify my current laziness in general sort of laziness on fair attitude towards life. Like I recognize how indulge in it is right now and I'm not doing this because I need it. I'm doing this because I can. If I was broken I'd be fucking busting my ass every day. If my kids were hungry right now I'd be busting my ass.

1:34:47I'm doing this because I can't. I'm not solving the puzzle because right down the hallway are all the snacks I could ever want and I'm very aware of that. So I hear you. I do not accept that justification. This is just pure indulgence. And that's all it is. It's great. Kiyoteur have some snacks and build a shelf this afternoon. It's very honest of you. I don't think anyone has ever said that to me because people do justify justify their indulgence. It's very interesting. What can we expect from you? It can we expect anything do you know the answer to that? Because so many people are like ultra fans of you.

1:35:28I think there's an anticipation of what's Casey. What's the next big thing Casey's going to do? You know I don't the short answer like what I've been saying this for a while and I haven't done it is like this version of my life right now that I do love and I really just I have always movies written when I say movies I mean YouTube videos written they're like really meaningful and awesome and some are deep and some are shallow and some are one day shoots and some are three weeks of of writing. I just want to make those. I just want to go to my office every day alone and make these videos and put them out on YouTube and like I deleted the YouTube studio app from my phone.

1:36:05I don't look at comments or views anymore. I don't check ads since I don't do that just click upload and then go back to work. That's what I want to do right now and when I'm beating myself up about my laziness it's because there's no there's nothing stopping me from doing that. I just I keep kicking the can but like that's what I want to do right now like that's it I just want to put my head down and make the things that I think are great. You're shit if anybody watches them. You talked about privilege earlier and acting on your privilege. Yeah that is the that to do that is the ultimate privilege like there's nothing more there there's nothing more that's like the most privileged existence.

1:36:46So aren't you acting on your privilege. We've got the lottery ticket. You know I think of like just a joke back and be as honest as I is because I don't I don't have to and I'm embarrassed to say that but that's the truth. Jack over there Jack Sylvester he's a producer's podcast and directed it with me since the very beginning and you're the reason why he got into video. He told me many years ago think he told me two years ago when we first started this he says he said Casey is his dream guest. Jack I'm glad I didn't cancel today. He thought about it. It's like you know instead of doing that podcast should be cool just to sit in my office and do nothing again.

1:37:26I'm glad I'm here. But my question really is about a 19 year old Casey when he first arrived into New York City. What is the advice that Casey needed to hear at that point that he just didn't go and I'm speaking to all the jacks out there that are 19. That's tough. A quick digression like hearing that and then knowing that I'm like my notes app I have 25 great movies that I wrote that I really care about. It makes me feel like Spike Jones has this great idea for a music video to make with that lip and if he just decided to go make shelves and have lunch and not make that video it might not have made me get off my like that's a fucking motivator like that makes me want to create stuff.

1:38:13But what's the one piece of advice? I think that like nobody cares about you. It's something that was never made clear to me and I mean that in the most positive optimistic inspiring motivating way. Like I think that especially if you see yourself as a creative or you want to exist on YouTube as a filmmaker or musician or as an artist or a painter or any of those things like you think that everybody's paying attention and because of that it kind of controls how you think and even when I was young and fearless and nothing to lose I was still so cognizant of like how are people going to react to this and what's the best way to do like I was so aware and the reality is nobody gives a shit everybody is so focused on themselves in this world nobody has time for you and the sooner you accept that as a creative person the sooner you're free like you're totally free I do exactly what feels right to you and if you can get yourself on that trajectory then it goes back to what we were talking about before about being novel about being an original about not being a photocopy of somebody who did something fear that photocopy you will never be the original but the moment you accept the fact that and nobody cares do your thing nobody cares and then you start to go down that path you will just get better and better and better then you sprinkle on that patience I was talking about you just keep going you keep going and eventually like that persistence will just smash into like opportunity was it preparation will smash into opportunity persistence will smash into opportunity and like your moment of explosion your detonation will happen as verbose but you ask a big question thank you so much Casey we have um we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for but I did have a question because you are I mean many people consider you to be the very king of vlogging and we've started a weekly vlog where which is going really well we've uploaded I don't know eight or so videos we've got engaged audience great I because you are the king of vlogging in my eyes I the question I want to ask you selfishly is what you make of that whole medium it's got it's been on a journey there was a lot of daily vloggers back in the day I used to watch the shaytards and I used to watch you and and then you know doing these daily vlogs and as you said I felt like I was your friend living your life with you the algorithms change things change it doesn't seem to be the case that there's daily vloggers anymore even like vlogging on the platform seems to kind of fallen down a little bit what do you think of I mean I at the time like when I was doing my daily vlog I really thought that it was like the ultimate like um maturation if that's a word like of reality television because you've got Kim Kardashian and you have her TV show and in between those two things are all these producers and directors and writers and all of this fabrication it's what I'm if you remove the middle part and it's just a sharing your world like that was the that was the most sort of optimistic whimsical trajectory that I saw the genre taking and I think it just never happened it never manifested that way instead it was a pursuit of sensationalism and views I think it was corrupted by the view count um I don't fault anyone I was susceptible to that too it was corrupted by the view count so what could have been something virtuous turned into something I think much less interesting and that crashed and burned and now in the ashes of that I think we're seeing really really interesting things I think we're seeing Mish succeed which is so fucking wonderful to see you had to be a YouTuber to succeed back in the day like one of those you have to fit in to you have to be one of the and now it's like we have these micro creators that are finding their audiences like friend of mine all he's into is like fish tanks it's all he does is fish tanks his channel's huge he's so good like these guys retro dodo their friends of mine like I was on they came to New York to film with me their whole channel is just retro video gaming devices there's wildly successful they release books and that is so amazing like you have eight episodes of your vlog out now I haven't seen any but like I'm sure they're much more about this than they are the intimacies of your life and how you got you know like you're able to lean into that niche so I think like this thing had all this potential and it crashed and burned and now out of those ashes we're seeing these sort of beautiful little things sprout up and I I hope that that's the trajectory of continuous and you're not tempted to vlog again on a daily basis if I could do it without having any notoriety or attention from it I would do it that's the only reason you don't do it it's a big part of the reason so interesting my like the thing that I've fantasized is about is like gritt and tern tino just disappears off the face of the earth for like six years and then it's like hey guys I had a new movie coming out in six months and he is the only thing anyone talks about is that movie I think goes and disappears crawls back into his cave and it's like that is the ultimate I don't fucking know anything about that guy see Mary and I don't know they have kids hmm like where does he live I don't know what is he doing right now I'm no idea kind of cars you drive don't know what is hobbies the no idea I know nothing about him but his work I know every word to every movie he has ever made I appreciate that man for one reason that is his artistic contribution to the world like that is the ultimate so for me it was like daily vlogging it's like I don't know how to separate the like selling of me and my personality with the art and that conflation starts to fuck with my head and then when people in the street come up to me and engage me yeah it's it's that turning into something in the real world that just freaks me out how long have we been talking we've done a while the question left here is what is one piece of feedback you want to give to me oh gosh shit what is one piece of feedback you want to give to me yes me Steven but might be nervous to tell me when you set up a studio in New York City don't do it 40 minutes out into fucking Brooklyn you figure out how to build this studio in downtown manhattan so all of your guests are five minutes away instead of 40 minutes away you were really busy today no no still watching TV nothing oh studio was in low low Manhattan until this was the first something that we've done it here but that is great did you get come here on your skateboard I thought about it but it doesn't have the range oh shit I appreciate that Casey thank you so much for the inspiration I've talked about you for many many years and it's really about the principles of towards life but also creation and the artistic side of your work that have inspired me so profoundly and even hearing the import you speak so clearly on the importance of truth and authenticity and in what you produce has has made me rethink a lot of things that I do and I think in a really important way and you're someone that is further further up the ladder that I think creators like myself are climbing so if you to shout down these messages mean that I don't have to go through the darkness or the confusion or all of those things that you've been through so I thank you for that and I'm very excited to see what you do because you're a pioneer and people that are creating for their own authentic reasons always make the most interesting shit and so that's going to be a source of inspiration for me if you do make those 25 videos in the notes you are found so please do I appreciate that I'm up there I do it for you thank you Casey thanks for having me do you need a podcast to listen to next we've discovered that people who liked this episode also tend to absolutely love another recent episode we've done so I've linked that episode in the description below I know you'll enjoy it you