Ex-Pentagon Official: The U.S Isn't Telling The Truth! Top-Secret UFO Encounters Finally Uncovered! They're Trying To Silence Us!

24:52I mean, it's all sorts of things that can happen. And so people were being reinforced not to report this information, even civilian pilots today. If you talk to them, they'll tell you quietly, you know, we see things in the sky, but we're not going to report anything because I need a job. You know, what did you see? Oh my God, what day? I mean, I just videos, reports, photographs. I mean, we have, there's videos that are so compelling in high definition that there's no question what you're seeing. It's not our technology. It's not our technology and the capabilities are beyond anything we can do.

25:26I mean, I'm happy to explain some of those capabilities you like, but, but you know, when you, when you look at this from a rational perspective, you only come to one outcome. It's only one. It can be the other one is so remotely possible that the mental gymnastics to get to that and we can go into that a minute. It's, it's absurd. And so, let's go into a little bit of what makes these things unique, because planes fly and you appear in the air. So that doesn't make them unique and, you know, things go fast and whatnot. So you have to an intelligence. If you want to filter out data and, and, and only focus on certain data, you have to create parameters.

26:06So we realized early on in the government that these things had five parameters, five observables that made them stand out away from everything else. And so the first one was instantaneous acceleration. So what is acceleration? It is the change of velocity, right? It is the ability to change your velocity very quickly. And as a result, as a consequence, there are inertial forces that are experienced. So for us human beings, we express those inertial forces as G forces. So the force of gravity is pulling on us equally at 9 .8 meters per second per second. And that's, that's, that's experienced as 1G.

26:42A human being can withstand up to 9G's for a very short period of time before you start having medical consequences, right? You have things like blackouts and redouts and ultimately death. To compare that to, let's say, standard technology, one of our most highly maneuverable aircraft, manned maneuverable aircraft, let me emphasize manned is an older aircraft. It's called the general dynamics F16 built by general dynamics is the F16. And that at an unclassified level can pull about 17 G's before you start having structural failure, meaning wings snap off, right? The plane begins to disintegrate while you're flying it.

27:19Well, we are seeing our objects that are performing in excesses of 2000 and 3000 G forces. Well beyond the healthy limitations of anything biological to withstand and certainly from a material science perspective, more than more than we have, there's an advanced technology here. The second observable is hypersonic velocity. So what is hypersonic? Hypersonics are those speeds in excess of Mach 5 or above? What's a Mach? It's the speed of sound roughly 760 some miles an hour at sea level. So it's really fast. Now, do we have technology that can do hyperson? Sure we do. Absolutely. One of the best examples is a Lockheed YF12 A SR 71, otherwise known as a blackbird.

28:05It can get to about Mach 5, which is really fast. But at that speed, if the SR 71 wants to take a right hand turn, takes roughly half the state of Ohio to execute that maneuver. We are seeing things not doing Mach 5. We are seeing things doing an excess of 10 ,000, 13 ,000 miles an hour and executing immediate right hand turns and even 180s. So that is another observable that is significantly above and beyond anything we have. Another observable, it's a bit of an oxymoron, but it's called low observability, meaning you'll hear from the pilots, Lou, I was there, I saw but I can't describe it. We didn't have wings, didn't have rudder, a tail, anything, no rivets, nothing.

28:52And then also on the radar, you will get these nonsensical returns. These returns like there's some sort of active jamming or spoofing going on within the radar system. So low observability, now do we have low observable vehicles? Sure, for example, the B2 bomber and the Valkyrie, these are stealth vehicles. Well, this is a little more than that because it's actually also with the human eye very hard to discern. The fourth observable is something called trans medium or multi -multimedium travel. So that means the ability to operate in multiple domains or more specifically multiple environments.

29:31Now, once again, do we have multi -domain vehicles? Absolutely. A sea plane is a perfect example of a multi -medium vehicle. It can fly and it can float. But let's face it, a sea plane is neither a really good airplane or a good boat. And why? Because there are design compromises that have to be made in performance and design in order for it to operate in multiple domains. And that's true with just about every technology we have, the more domains we want something to operate in, the more sacrifices we have to make. That's why it looks like a submarine to this design to be underwater in a plane looks like a plane and a rocket looks like a rocket.

30:08These things can operate in multiple different domains. It can operate in air, underwater and possibly even space, but they don't have that performance and design sacrifice that we have to do with our technology. So is it like a when you get this job, do you get to see like a folder on a computer? I'm trying to understand what access you're given. I mean, you are seeing the investigations that were done previously by other members of UAP. You're seeing video, you're seeing photographs, you're seeing the historical reports and these classified. Oh, absolutely. Very. Okay, so the general public can't see these kinds of things.

30:50No, and they haven't been published. Correct. They have not been public, may publicly available. They are highly classified. Okay, so it's videos, it's photos, it's various accounts is correct. You know, a lot of people talk about area 51 when they talk about UFOs and such. I think one of the sort of rumors is that at area 51, they've found and retained UFO material, spacecraft, etc. That they've studied to understand the technology so that they can introduce it to the US military. Is there any truth in that? You know, the US government invests a lot of money in research. You have a lot of test facilities where we want to be able to test things outside the prying eyes of our enemies.

31:32And so we create these test ranges for that purpose. We do all sorts of things at those test ranges. You know, I cannot comment on what area 51 might or might not have. I would not be authorized to talk about that. All I can say is what is in the public domain, which people already know that is a sensitive test facility where we experiment with things. Because I was a gentleman, I think from that worked near area 51, that's talked a little bit about this publicly, Bob Lazar. I actually didn't know anything about Bob Lazar until about two hours ago. So what is exactly is that Bob Lazar is claiming?

32:13Well, to be fair, you'd probably have to ask Bob. I don't know Mr. Lazar. I've never met him. I've never spoken to him. His claims were that he worked at a particular facility and he had access to and privy to one of recovered vehicles, crash retrievals. That was allegedly performed by the United States and acquired him and brought there. That is what is in the public domain. I cannot and will not comment on Bob Lazar because I don't know him. So when you say you can't comment on something and as it relates to something that's classified, have you had to go through some process? There's a book in front of me called Imminent, which is the book you've written.

32:54It says inside the Pentagon's had a few FOs. What is the process when you're writing books like this to get information cleared so that you can share it? It's like birthing an elephant. I can't really imagine if I would have said, I wouldn't have had to give birth. Because they probably don't want you talking about these things. There are a lot of people that don't want us talking about this. But there's also a lot to do. So you go through a process. It's called Dopser. In the US government, we love our acronyms. It stands for Department of Defense Office of Pre -Publication and Security Review.

33:28As a former defense official, if I want to write anything, it has to go through a review process to make sure it's not classified and I can talk about it. That book went through an exhaustive almost one -year process through the government before they allowed me to publish it. And even then they redacted Portion Tut. If you look in there, you will see great out portions. Because I wanted Americans to see what some people don't need to see. And so those redactions are there by the government. And it is a very exhaustive process. But it's important because that's what keeps us legal. That's what keeps people like me not going to jail.

34:07Because I go through proper procedures. I'm not a leaker. I have never leaked classified information. I will never discuss classified information. An unauthorized disclosure is something that should be avoided at all times. I'm a patron. I'm loyal to my country. I'm not disloyal. So there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. So if you want to write a book and you want to talk about things you're not sure you can talk about, you go through this stops or process. And that's exactly what I did. And that's how that book was able to be published. Otherwise right now it would probably be in jail.

34:40Is there a single most compelling piece of evidence that you were witness to as it relates to your belief in UFOs and UAPs? They were all significant. There wasn't one that said, oh, that's it. Because they were all compelling in their own way, whether you can go back to the USS Nimitz incident in 2004 or the Roosevelt incidents in 2014 and 2015. There was so much data every time you think you had one that was great. That another would come and that was even better. So I mean, you've put one on the front cover of this book there, right? Yeah. What is this incident on the front cover of your book?

35:13That is known as the gimbal incident. That is a video that was taken by an F -18. And you can hear the exacerbation. If you listen to the actual video, you can hear the pilots trying to discuss what it is. And then you also hear on it the discussion of there's a whole fleet of them. Look at the ASA. And oh, by the way, it's going 120 knots against the wind at roughly 20 ,000 feet. So it's not a balloon. And you begin to see this vehicle orientated itself in a 90 degree angle. Now, if this was a plane, like here's your wings, if you go in a 90 degree angle, you lose altitude. Because that's how the principles of lift work.

35:52That's not the case there. I think this is the video.

36:18Yep.

36:23And that was shot by two U .S. sort of fighter pilots. And a lot more of those out there and a lot clearer too, but they're classified. So there's more videos like this that you've been exposed to. Oh, yeah. But they were released them. They will not release them. Why? Because of sources of methods. Because they remain classified because how they were taken, where they were taken under what circumstances, what technological capabilities were used to collect information. The U .S. government wants to keep out of its out of the hands of its adversaries. What are true capabilities are? So let's say you're flying a mission over a denied area and you don't want the enemy to know that you're over it.

37:02Right. The last thing you want to do is release a video where you can look and say, oh, we're in this location. And now the enemy knows or we have this capability or we can see this, this good. These are the technologies we have. These videos here, ironically, are probably some of the least compelling videos. Now people say, oh, these are incredible, but these are the ones that were on classified that could be released. The other ones, some of these are so clear. The problem is is how they were taken, the collection capabilities that were used to take them, where they were taken under what circumstances, the metadata in the video, all that is a consideration.

37:34Okay. And did the U .S. government in the Pentagon generally want people to believe that UFOs, exist or not? I think it's both. I think up until recently, nobody wanted to have this conversation. The problem is the government backed itself up after 70 years of denial into a corner and it has to figure a way out. There are some elements now that want the conversation to occur. And so that's why you see Congress getting engaged by the creation of arrow, but there are still elements unfortunately in the Pentagon that don't want this conversation to occur. And they will continue doing what they can to discredit individuals and launch this campaign against them.

38:16One of my colleagues, David Gruch, who was a decorated Air Force officer and a senior intelligence official. The moment he broke rank and went public about this topic within 24 hours, they released his medical records trying to discredit him and they did it illegally. So there are people there that definitely don't want this conversation to occur. Well, there's a lot of reasons why. You know, back historically, great question. Can I impact that a little bit? Do you mind there? Okay, so let's start really at the heels of World War II. You have these food fighters that are being observed by allied pilots, these luminous balls that would follow them into combat areas.

39:00And then after particularly as we started developing in the atomic weapons, we started releasing a lot of UFOs of our controlled military airspace and over our center of military installations, our research facilities. And so at the time you have this mindset, you have high to the Cold War, United States versus Soviet Union. And by the way, they had nukes instead of we, right? So you've got a real potential threat over there. And then you've got these other things over here. So as a general in the Pentagon, say, look, I know these things are real, but they're not showing any over hostilities. Meanwhile, we've got this real issue over here, this real threat called Soviet Union.

39:35Let's focus on this threat. And then we'll worry about this other stuff later. The other part of that is the mindset of look, it's really uncomfortable as a government to have a conversation with its people about a problem that there's no solution for. Right? We can see what they do, but there's not a damn thing we can do about it. We can't stop what they're doing. And so do you really want to have a conversation with American people and admit a problem for which we don't have a solution for that governments are solution focused. And that is not a great spot to be in, right? And it's by the way, not the first time this has happened.

40:13Let's look at the U2 for example, spy plane. When we first built that the CIA commissioned it through Lockheed Martin Skunkworks, and we were flying that vehicle in contravention to a standing treaty we had with Russia that we would not fly, we're command reconnaissance missions over Russia, mainland Russia, we work. But we built this plane to fly so fast and so high we thought they couldn't detect us, right? And for a while, we thought they couldn't because we went unchallenged until the Russians were able to develop the surface to air missile, SA2 missile. And successfully shoot one down. And then and only then did they admit to the world we've been tracking these things since day one.

40:52The reason why they didn't talk about it is because he didn't have a means to shoot it down. So why admit a problem for which there's no solution until you have a solution. So that's another mindset in a Pentagon. And then you had several studies done that were commissioned by the US government in the past that asked the question if we were to be honest and truthful about disclosure, about we're not alone in university things are real. So what would the consequences be? And these studies came back unanimously said you can't do it. The American people are not ready to have this conversation. It'll cause civil discord and it'll cause it'll upset the population and people will lose faith in their religions and economy may crash.

41:29You can't do it. And so the decision was made okay, we're not going to do it. In fact, we're going to actively suppress this information. We're going to stigmatize the heck out of it. So bad that known what everyone even mentioned the word UFO. And it was very successful that that campaign to stigmatize this topic was so successful. In fact, that even now it's hard to unwind the tape and have the conversation. And so therein lies part of the problem. Why doesn't the government parts the government want to have this conversation. Then you've got a legal issue, which is probably probably the biggest issue now.

42:03You have elements in the government that were making unilateral decisions not to inform Congress and not to inform the president of the United States. That's illegal. There are oversight committees that have a designated need to know on all intelligence matters, especially when it comes to funding. We're spending billions of dollars on these projects. You've got to inform Congress certain elements and certain oversight committees like the Senate's the Committee on Intelligence. They weren't being briefed to this. There's also this fear by some people on the inside the government that oh my gosh, I used to work on a secret UFO program.

42:38Am I going to be in trouble now because you know, we've been lying to Congress. And so it's a little more complicated than necessarily just saying, oh, well, we want the truth be honest. It's not that easy. To your knowledge, has there ever been recovered, um, UAP or UFO materials? What I can say what I've been allowed to say, which is yes, up until recently, I wasn't even allowed to say that. When did that change? When that book got reviewed up into that point, I had signed documentation from the government saying I will never discuss that ever. What happens if you did or jail. Oh, yeah, that's why that book.

43:12I had to go through the process because what I run that book, I am allowed to talk about. I can't go beyond that, but at least I can talk about that. And in the book, I talk about yes, that the government is in possession of material exotic material that doesn't look like it's made by us. Has there ever been anyone sent to jail because they've spoken about this subject matter worse. Worse. And that story has yet to be told. Yes, there are people who have had faced extreme disciplinary actions and potentially worse. The death penalty. I'm not going to elaborate right now because there's some things happening to try to, this is why Congress is working hard for whistleblower protections because we want people to feel safe to come out and have a conversation.

44:00And right now they don't feel overly safe. They've seen some of the tactics and techniques that were applied to try to keep people quiet in the past. Let me say this in general terms, people say, well, the government would never kill anybody to protect a secret. Try going to area 51 and look at the signs on that chain link fence where it says lethal force authorized. You cross that fence and they can kill you dead. Okay, so the government can under certain extreme cases, under certain extreme situations and conditions, they can do whatever they need to do to protect national security and they will.

44:38Which department is that? I cannot go into that conversation unfortunately because people think of it as maybe the CIA or something, but I can't elaborate unfortunately. You know, because I've never a little about American government or departments and such, but obviously most of the world knows about the like residential assassinations and things like that. So and I spoke into a few CIA agents and stuff like that on my podcast before, but I've never really understood frankly who would who would be making such an order and how those things don't leak. Well, you know, good question. Look, we've done it in the past, in other situation, some pretty recently.

45:23You know, let me give you a case in point and this is not, you know, attacking anybody. We have grown to use drones to lethally kill people, Americans and American citizens, specifically and and persons child without due process in the US. Not in the US. He was a US citizen. He was suspected of being a terrorist and there's some other things that are not going to go in there. But we as American citizens are as American citizens, we are afforded something called due process under the law of peace. And meaning you get your day in court no matter what. And there've been Americans where that hasn't been the case.

46:03They didn't get a day in court. Someone made the decision to liquidate them. You know, there are examples of that happening. You know, there's another one with with Rosenberg's. The those who were accused of selling the atomic secrets to the Russians, actually giving it to them. And if you know a little bit about what happened with his wife, turns out that she was innocent. What happened to his wife? They hung her. And him for for espionage. But because of the information that we had at the time, we was so sensitive, we'd have to reveal a capability. So unfortunately, it looks like maybe we may have done something that we shouldn't have done.

46:50I wasn't around for that. So I can't tell you definitively what happened. I can only tell you what what what my understanding of it is. I could absolutely be wrong. And I really hope I am. But it turns out that you know, there are extreme examples where we will take drastic measures to protect national security. So in writing this book and it's talking about the subjects, you understand that there's some people that don't want you talking about these subjects. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So and you also understand that punishment for talking about these subjects in range from jail or worse. Yep. So you not scared.

47:25I didn't say that. I didn't say I wasn't scared. I mean, I'm taking huge risks. I, but I've been, my life has been threatened many times. And it's very concerning for me. It's a reason why I live in Wyoming and I'm heavily armed and have now six German shepherds. Yeah, I'm very cautious and careful. But I'm also understanding. I also know the left and right limits of the law. And I'm not going to break the law under any circumstances. I didn't, this book is an elite. I'm authorized to talk about that book because I went through the proper processes of getting it reviewed whether they like it or not.

47:59But yes, I am absolutely worried. You know, this is why I'm very careful when I say things because I don't want to, I'll walk up to the line. I will not step over the line. I will not violate my security oath and compromise national security for disclosure. And I don't think I have to. I think the proof isn't to putting the fact that it's been seven years when we've come this far in the conversation. And I haven't gone to jail. And I'm still here to have a conversation. I think it's indicative of the fact that there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I understand people want disclosure and they want it now.

48:27But I've told people before there's a difference between doing things right and doing things right now. They're different. And we only get one chance to do this right. And so hopefully we can have this conversation, this collective conversation in a way where we don't have to be disruptive. No one has to be threatened. No one has to go to jail. No one has to lose her jobs or anything like that. You mentioned President Saariran. Do you, presidents of the United States know about UFOs? Some do, some do not. Unfortunately, there's a mindset by some people that think that politicians and presidents are temporary hires.

49:05They're here today, gone in four years. So why brief them up on something, especially if they have no military or intelligence background. It's a risk. So you know what? Don't brief them. Which presidents do you think were aware of UFOs and these kinds of programs? Sure. Well, we know for sure there were several. You know, for sure, for example, Carter was. But then how did you know? Clinton, well, because Carter was briefed. I know somebody who actually worked with Carter to get information on this topic. I will see the person's name. The person is still alive. So I don't have permission to talk about that.

49:37But we know that for a fact and there's records of it. But there's other presidents like Bill Clinton, who wasn't briefed but wanted to be briefed. Right. And so. And again, this is the crux of the problem. Who's making the decision on what president gets briefed and what doesn't? That's, that's nonsense. President George Bush senior was briefed when he was also the director of the CIA. So he was very well aware of this topic. But then there's other presidents that weren't. And so this is again, this is highlighting the very problem that I have. Who's making the decision to choose who gets briefed and who doesn't?

50:10What about Obama and Trump? I can't answer for them. Obama has recently stated for the record that these UAP are a national security issue, not a threat, but an issue that there's something there that these are real. Whatever they are, whatever it is. President Trump recently, former president Trump said, we can have a go for the record when asked that he would be willing to release the UFO files and that he wanted to do it in the past, but he faced fierce resistance. I think about that statement for a minute. Who the hell is giving him resistance to releasing UFO files when you're the president?

50:46Right. That is, that is a very significant statement. That is what needs to be fixed. If the president himself can't get or herself can't get a briefing, who in the hell has you authority to make that decision? Nobody. What is that face resistance that Trump's talking about? I don't know. You don't have to ask Trump. What do you think is? I think there is a huge amount of influence by the military industrial complex and they it is an enormous business. Always has been. It is, it's huge. It is probably the world's largest business globally. And why wouldn't the military industrial complex want those files to be released?

51:28Well, because then you have to admit that they part of the part of the programs. Some of these folks, you know, have had been a lot of their successes. It has been able to work super secret program for the US government. And maybe there's technology that they don't want released. Maybe there's capabilities that we had that we don't want to tell our adversaries. And there's a lot of reasons for it, which are understand. Some of them are actually legitimate. I can understand. I don't agree with, but I can understand. How much do you think the average person on the street knows about what goes on in the Pentagon and behind the scenes of the government?

51:59Rather, it's forget the government in Pentagon. How many parents they can tell you who's a quarterback of their favorite football team and they can tell you their stats. But how many parents know who their kids sits next to during lunch or in second period math class? It government is, I mean, that's basic facts, man. We as humans, most of us, we suck. We don't know anything. And we're so used to being force fed information by whatever outlet the genre we want to tune into, you know, if I'm a liberal, I'll watch this from a conservative watch that I'll go straight to my echo chamber. And, you know, just hear what I want to hear and have people tell me not only information that I that they think I need to know, but even my opinion of what what it should be about.

52:45This is a much, much bigger issue than just UFOs and UAP. We as as people have become extremely lazy. And we no longer are willing to ask the hard questions. We're not. You a part of one program, but you also referenced the second program called the legacy program. What is the legacy program? It is the traditional long held effort by the US government to study UAP. People think A -Tip was the only program and all SAP before that there was there was blue book and before that of other. So the legacy program is the collaborative effort of individuals over the course of several decades that I've been looking into this topic for the US government and by the US government.

53:33And okay, just doing similar things to what A -Tip did. Yes, and more robust and much more well funded. I wonder why they don't fund it as well these days. There's a reason for that too that I wouldn't need permission to talk about. There were some distractions in the early 2000s that lifted and shifted resources away from from efforts to something else. You know, you probably can figure out what this what that was, but there was an enormous resource drain and refocusing in the early 2000s to focus on something else. And so I heard you talk as well about this sort of different types of aliens, because when we think of aliens, we reflect on movies that we've seen.

54:24And they have like the big heads and things like that and maybe they're like like white, tall, skinny with like the big arms and the big legs and stuff like that. Is that what people in the Pentagon consider aliens to be? What we see in movies. I can't speak on behalf of other people. I can only speak on behalf of me. I've been very, very careful not to stereotype anybody or anything. I think it's important we have to keep an open mind because when you say the word aliens, you're automatically presuming that these things are from outer space. They might not be. There's lots of different options.

55:00It doesn't have to be from outer space. What do you believe? Do you believe they're amongst us? Well, let's let's. Can I can I explore this with you this question? Okay, so it's it's not a either or. So in the beginning of our conversation, I told you I went to the University of Miami and I studied microbiology immunology and study a parasite. Now, if you go to some anthropologists, they will suggest to you that modern human beings, homo sapiens sapiens has been around roughly between 100 to possibly 200 ,000 years. So on a 24 hour clock, right? It's only the last 2000 years. And it was the Greeks that proposed there were two fundamental life forms on this planet.

55:38And you were either a plant or you were an animal and human beings were an animal. And so the 24 hour clock, you're probably talking about me, I don't know, 10 minutes ago before midnight. Well, it was 300 years ago during the rental sauce or the days of enlightenment. That we discovered an entire new life form on this planet that's been here all along. And that was neither plant nor animal. It was the world of fungus. And we pat ourselves from the shoulders and say, hey, we found a new life form. In this 24 hour clock, it's been probably the last maybe 10 seconds, last 120 years only. That we discovered for the first time the true dominant alpha life form on this planet.

56:24And in fact, if you take all the biomass of every plant and all the biomass of every animal and all the biomass of every fungus and added it all up together, it still will not equal the biomass of this hidden yet dominant life form that's been on this planet all along. And it wasn't until we could have the technology to curve glass and look through a little tube and famously shout the words little beasties, little beasties. Did we discover the world of microorganisms? Okay, the true dominant life form on this planet that's been here all along. In fact, it's inside of us. It makes us up. It's pervasive everywhere.

57:02And we just discovered it. So when I say to people, you know, but people, you think from outer space, they can be from outer space, inner space, or frankly, the space in between these things can be just as natural to our environment as we are. Maybe we're at the point now where technologically we can start interacting. Maybe they're from under the ocean. Look, less than 10 % of the ocean floor has been mapped. We know more about the surface of the moon than we do of our own oceans. And so what is it possible to be able to do with the planet as we are? Possibly. Or is it possible these things are from somewhere else?

57:34Yes, that's possible too. So we have to keep all options on the table until they're no longer on the table. We live in an infinitely, infinitely complex universe.

57:48See if I can, and I've often used this before to try to help people wrap their heads around around this. We perceive life through five fundamental, five fundamental senses. And if we can't touch it, taste it here, it smell it, et cetera, we can't interact with it. We have no idea it's there. Where I live on Wyoming, we have these beautiful night skies, unaccluded night skies. And you can see all the heavens, beautiful Milky Way in front of you. If you were to look at that, that same night sky through a radio telescope, you would see something different. You would see nebula. You would see things that you can't normally perceive.

58:23And the ultraviolet and infrared spectrums and x -ray, right? It's there. You just can't perceive it. It's just like if you had cell phone vision, all of a sudden now you can see in Wi -Fi and 5G. You would see an entirely different reality around you. So we perceive light, we perceive life through a very narrow spectrum of visible light, the visible light spectrum. When reality is most everything else kind of lies beyond that. And then you have a scale issue, you have a scalability issue. What do I mean by scale? We are a human being. You and I are having a lovely conversation here somewhere in some place on this planet revolving around an obscure star and an obscure part of the Milky Way galaxy amongst a supercluster of other galaxies.

59:08The visible horizon from any direction we look at of light, the size of the universe has been estimated to be between 13 .6 to 13 .9 billion light years, be billion. What is a light year? A light year is the distance that a photon of light can travel in the course of a year. And how fast is that? Well, light travels at roughly 186 ,000 miles per second or seven and a half times around our planet in one second, right? Really fast. Imagine how far that goes in a year. And now imagine how far that goes 13 .9 billion years, right? So we're in the middle of the universe here, our universal horizon in any direction is 13 .9 billion light years.

59:49And in that direction, another 13 .9. So you're roughly 27 billion light years across and we're in the middle. Now scientists are estimating that's less than 10 % of the actual size of the universe. The universe is actually much, much bigger than that. This is just the universal horizon because expansion of the universe light this far will never reach earth. So now you're talking about a size 100 billion light years and as small as we are right in the middle, this infinitesimally small spec keep in mind in our visible universal, visible. There are more stars than there are grains of sand in all the beaches in all the world.

1:00:25Think about that incomprehensible number and as small as we are now human me with this take one atom, one hydrogen atom, Avogadro is number one times 10 to the negative 23. That's roughly the same order of magnitude as we are to the universe. So we have this entire huge universe outside and this entire little universe inside every single human being. And we as a human beings can only interact with one or two orders of magnitude up or down. Otherwise, the universe is simply too big or too small. We just will never be able to know. And that is reality. That's where most of everything lies. That's where most of reality is.

1:01:09See, they're there or inside or everything in between. So I guess my point is every time when people say, well, you know, aliens, what does that mean? What does that mean? Because most people say aliens and Hollywood and little eggheads running around. There's so much more to it. It doesn't this is this is us imposing a Hollywood idea of what an alien should look like. And by the way, let's not forget their anthropomorphic more for values, right? They look like us, arms like us and heads like us and eyes like us. Because we view everything through anthropomorphic eyes. It's the reason why we call our dogs human names and we treat them like humans.

1:01:50Because we treat everything as if they have human values, human motivation, human intent. When we may be dealing with something completely different, this could be like artificial intelligence. It's just binary input in input out. We don't know. And so these are some of the questions we have to really was moving down this pathway. This is why I always tell people, look, all options have to be on the table until they're no longer on the table. Could we simply don't know? We also don't know what their intentions are and why they might be here. That's right. Why they might be visiting here. That's right.

1:02:22Do you have any theories as to what their intentions might be? Rather than there's a whole range of theories. I mean, it could be simply as like when we're on the African Serengeti and we see the Wilder Beasts and we're in a helicopter and you know, not to make fun of it, but you sit there and say, oh, that one, we dart it. Boom, what do we do? We land the helicopter. We come out. We draw blood. We do tests. We want to see its diet and its migratory patterns, its health. And then what happens? So will the beast wakes up? Kind of groggy, disoriented, stumbles over to the watering, the whole thing is like, hey, Bill, you're not going to believe this man.

1:02:51This thing came out of the sky. Also weird stuff happened. I was being touched. I woke up and now my butt hurts. Right. It could be something as simple as that. Do you believe in those reports? Because people do say that they were abducted by aliens? Well, this is my point. Right. So that's that's one option. The other option could be simply to monitor us. It could be that we are getting very close to being able to replicate what they can do. And if that's a case, you know, maybe technologically we're only 100, 200 years behind. And if that's a case, now all of a sudden we're going to be new neighbors, right?

1:03:23And that could be problematic because our species is very violent. We do a lot of bad things to each other. Are we really ready to go out and meet our potential friends from out of town? No, I mean, we're pretty horrible to each other. So maybe not. Certainly if I was them and we were, I knew we were getting close. I would probably pretty interested in what we're doing too. As far as the abductions, you know, I don't know what to tell you because I've never been abducted. I've had some some people that swear by it. But you know, you can't have a conversation about abduction and then say, oh, they're here for peaceful reasons.

1:03:58Doesn't work that way. Do you believe them? The people that swear by it? I believe that I believe that they are being truthful that they that experience they feel is real. I don't think they're lying. But the question is, you know, it happens. It's the question. Yeah, and I can't say because I wasn't there. But I can tell you that we definitely have people that have had experiences where they are now on US government full medical disability in writing because I got too close to a UAP. Now was it deliberate that they got injured or was it just a byproduct of the technology? They got too close to it.

1:04:29What does that mean? They got too close to it. And you mentioned that there's some people that are on US disability allowance. So they're being paid by the US government. And writing because they had a UAP and they were they were involved in a UAP encounter. And what does that mean? UAP encounter not definition? Well, so let's look at it this way. Now, here's a better one. You go to the airport, right? And I'm going to hop on a 737 and go fly the Fort Lauderdale. There's no real threat there. I'm getting on a plane. It's safe. Some of the seat have a cocktail. You know, watch a movie read a magazine.

1:04:59Now, if I were to walk out onto the tarmac onto the runway, that same where that same airplane is. And that airplane decides to spool up its jet engine. Chance I'm going to be injured. I'm going to get burned. I'm going to lose my hearing and possibly a lot worse, right? There are individuals, US government servicemen and women. And there's also intelligence officials who have been injured by getting too close to a UAP. Whether incidentally or it was deliberate or not. The question is, was that injury sustained because it was deliberate or was that injury sustained because it was just a matter of being too close to the technology.

1:05:38For example, it's like putting your head near a microwave oven when it's on. It's probably not very good for you, right? And if those people spoke now? Absolutely. What's like a good example? There's an individual right now named John Burrows, who had his medical files classified in the US government, thankfully because of Senator late Senator John McCain from Arizona forced the Air Force to release his files. And as a result, he was able to get full medical disability because of an incident that involved him and another individual in the UK known as Randall Schum Forest Incident or Bent Waters Incident where there was a US joint US and UK base.

1:06:23And there was a UFO incident where this thing had landed in the forest. And they went out to go see this thing and they were injured. And they were in the military at the time? Yeah, Air Force Special Police are police officers. They were injured. They were injured. And that's not all. There's a lot of people that have been injured right now that are under medical care by government doctors. That is a fact.

1:06:51When they give their account of what happened, what do they say? It depends on you ask. I mean, there's some consistency without within some of the stories. And then there's some divergence. You know, it's like somebody who says they've been in a car accident, depending on what kind of car you're in and was it a multiple car pile up and where were you sitting in the car, you're going to have a slightly different experience. So it's not one shoe fits all. You talk about how they there's been a lot of UAP sightings at nuclear technology facilities. Yes. And that is why this is a national security issue because they seem to be able to disable our nuclear capabilities.

1:07:25Now people say, oh, well, that's like, you know, taking matches out of a kid's hands and it's, you know, well, maybe, but in Russia, there's information to suggest they actually turned them on. So, you know, we have to be really careful with that. There are nuclear triad capability is really the crown jewels of the US government. And so if a country or an adversary has the ability to interfere with a nuclear response, that's significant. Is evidence to suggest that they turn down the nuclear facilities in Russia? Yes. What is evidence? What was that? There's evidence that there's actually a KGB report that suggested that the one of their places has actually turned on.

1:08:03In fact, there's a lot of, let me be careful, I say here. So after the Berlin Wall fell, there was this brief honeymoon period between the Soviet Union and the US, where XKGB officers were sharing information with us and our government. I think that's about all I could probably say about that. But there was some very interesting information that we were able to see. I was really about this really interesting incident called the Chloris incident. Goladash, I'm Brazil. I can't pronounce that. So that's a good Goladash. Goladash. Which was in 1977 to 1978. And it sounded like a UAP incident that was witnessed by hundreds, thousands of people.

1:08:53It was investigated officially by the Brazilian military under the command and control of a four -star general named General Uchua. And he has explained before he passed away that even his own military personnel had been attacked. By. By UAP. And what did they see? What was the, what did they document? Oh my goodness. A whole litany of things. A lot of the locals, recall being terrified by these things being pursued by them, almost being like a laser blast, if you can imagine that, or directed energy type injury. Very provocative. Some of the military personnel were injured as well. A lot of medical doctors came in afterwards to look at the locals and the military personnel.

1:09:40Validating the presumption that there was some sort of directed energy type damage, tissue damage. To some of these people. And of course, then the fear kind of escalated into some of the other, you know, local law of some other things. But it was very well established by the Brazilian military who also witnessed these encounters. So it's not like just some people in a remote village. These were Brazilian military officers who also vouched for it. And I've spoken to dozens and dozens of military officers all throughout Latin America and Chile and Peru and Uruguay. And, you know, they all reporting in some cases some very, very similar encounters, not necessarily with coladas.

1:10:23But in and amongst themselves, people who don't even know each other separated by different countries are telling me they're same encounter. And the same morphology of craft and how they would in some cases even try to engage in a dog fight and use canister conventional guns to new avail, of course. And there's reports of that in Tehran incident, believes 1978, the Tehran incident with an F14 Tomcat, where the pilot. His aircraft was disabled every time we tried to engage a target. And then, you know, I superimpose that with here in Huntsville, Alabama, we had some helicopters that we were testing.

1:10:59And something like eight out of the eight test pilots, all reported UAP coming around their their helicopters while they were testing them. And one even reported that he believed his his helicopter was disabled. And he went into an emergency situation. I think it was an emergency auto rotation situation. And as soon as the UAP left, he was able to regain control of his helicopter. Should we be worried about this? No, I don't think word. I think we should be concerned because look from a from a governmental perspective, to determinists. And this is why I always say this is a national security issue, but not a national national security threat.

1:11:40And there's a reason why. So there's a very simple calculus to determine if something is a threat. It's capabilities versus intent. We've seen some of the capabilities. We have no idea the intent. No clue. So we don't know if it's if it's a threat. And let me give you a little analogy here that might help kind of put this. I use this analogy a lot to help illustrate what do I mean? I'm sure you're living a lovely home. Let me ask you the question. Do you lock your front door before you go to bed? Yes. Okay. And you know what I do too. And I think most people, we don't expect anything bad to happen, but just out of precaution, right?

1:12:17And some folks may go the extra mile and decide, you know, I'm going to just make sure the windows are locked once in a while. And you know what I might even turn the alarm on at night because I can't. Let's say you wake up one Sunday morning to have yourself a nice hot cup of tea or coffee. And you walk downstairs and all of a sudden as you come downstairs one bright morning, you notice size 12 muddy boot prints on your living room carpet that were not there the night before. Now no one's been hurt. Nothing's out of place. But despite you locking the front door and checking the windows and turning on the alarm, there are now boot prints in your living room floor that were not there the night before.

1:12:51My question to you is, is that a threat? My response is it could be if it wanted to be so we should probably figure out how it's getting into the house. This is kind of the same analogy of these things that can come in unimpeded unchallenged into controlled US airspace over sensitive military installations potentially interfere with our nuclear equities and capabilities. We should probably figure out what these things are. With everything that you know in mind and everything you've witnessed and seen. If you had to argue against yourself, if you had to argue the case against everything that you believe to make the case that you ap's don't exist, what exactly would you say?

1:13:28Well, you can't say they don't exist. We're ready. We're beyond it. They're real, whatever they are. But I could make the argument that is foreign adversarial technology. It's Russia. It's China. They have leapfrog just technologically and have been able to execute this this plan wonderfully. And then the other option is that it's all a grand hallucination. So let's go down each argument. Let's go down the fact that maybe this is Chinese technology, Russian technology. After all the Chinese did send balloons over our northern continental United States. Spible moons and you know, for who knows how long and we never did anything about it and tracked it.

1:14:02That means that for the last 70 years. Some country has been able to create a technology in secret that so far, advance of anything we have. And by the way, deploy it over the continental United States for 70 years completely not attributed. Now, where were we 70 years ago? Well, we're on the heels of war war two. We had just broken the sound barrier and we hadn't made it into space yet. Where was China in the middle of a famine? Where was Russia? No better than we were. So if this was Chinese technology or Russian technology back then, because we had the data to show goes all the way back. This would be the greatest intelligence failure this country has ever faced, eclipsing that at even 9 .11 because despite the billions of dollars and the 17 intelligence organizations.

1:14:55Over 70 years, there's not a trace that these countries were able to develop this and fly over our country and do what we're seeing. So that's option one. Also, temporally speaking, that type of technology didn't exist back in 1950, 1948. We not not by us anyway. So that would be like going into King Tut's tune for the very first time in the 1920s and looking in there and all of a sudden discovering a fully assembled and functioning 747 doesn't make sense. Egyptians didn't have the technology back then. So let's go to the other option. So that would be the huge biggest intelligence failure that this country's ever experienced and that's not a good option and very, very unlikely.

1:15:44So the other option is this is not a mass hallucination. Everybody's crazy. So let's go down that rabbit hole for a second. So some of the best and brightest in our intelligence community in our department of defense are top -gun trained pilots who are who are trusted to fly live munitions over cities populated cities fighting wind wars on our behalf. Men and women who have their finger literally on the nuclear button. They're all crazy. They're all absolutely certifiably insane. We've got a bigger problem on our hands in UAP. What percentage of them have made reports of UAP? You know, it's hard to say percentage because you don't know because the ones that don't report, there's no way to measure right.

1:16:30You only know the ones that do report. So there's no way now we can tell you that people more more reporting because they feel that it's safe that they can report. But we don't have any metric right now that tells us who's not reporting because they're not reporting. When we think about this hallucination rationale, I remember many years ago, you know, I think it was in relation to physical hallucinations. There are ghosts and things like that. Yeah, it was a relation to ghosts. Someone said to me they said, if really extremely improbable things never happened, then that would be a miracle. Because just like the nature of probability means that most sort of predictable things happen most of the time.

1:17:09And then as you get down probability, there's this one side of it, which is. Yeah, exactly. So like the bell ship, this side of it is extremely improbable things. You know, I also think extremely improbable example. We start talking about Andrew Huberman. And then my phone rings in us, Andrew Huberman. And we go, oh my god, what are the odds of that being Andrew Huberman? And we were just talking about him. And the issue there is we've spoken about many people and the phone never rang. But on the one time it does, we go, we connect the dots in hindsight. We go, that is a miracle. And we attribute meaning to that.

1:17:44Is it not possible that, you know, if there's thousands and thousands of these sightings, there's also billions of non sightings. So on that bell curve of probability, there's these are just the unexplainable highly improbable. Thousand incidents of, you know, maybe there was something on the camera, maybe there was some. All lightning, atmospheric anomaly, but the problem is you were going back to the. To the idea that there are multiple sensor systems collecting the same information at the same time under the same circumstances, right? This isn't just one person like your call. Oh my gosh, I blew the guy calls.

1:18:22You've got multiple platforms reporting the information at the same time simultaneously, right? So it's not just, oh, I saw an atmospheric aberration. The radar is picking it up. The gun camera is picking it up. The flares picking it up. And another radar systems picking up. And another radar. And by the way, other capabilities, which I can't discuss here, are also picking it up. So it's a real thing. Now could it be Russian rocket on reentry that happened to use up all its hydrazine and now the booster rock is burning up. Yeah, but then you don't have these 90 degree turns. You don't have 180 degree turns.

1:18:58You don't have something coming in sitting at 80 ,000 feet, then dropping it right above the surface of the water, hovering 50 feet, then popping right back up again, that you can measure quantifiable and qualifiable data. Is that you're referring to what they call the tick tack incident? Is that what that is as well? So the tick tack incident is that's not the video from the tick tack. But yeah, the tick tack incident are these objects that were detected at one point, one of the operatives, it was raining UFOs. So the spy when radar can can detect a baseball size object at 80 ,000 feet. Okay, very, very capable.

1:19:32You had E2 Hawkeye. What's that? It's an air platform. It's an aircraft. It's a flying radar system that we use to provide combat support air support and combat control or aircraft. So you have the ageist class destroyer. It's basically like a should take on a kind of road of good class, I think. You have the USS Princeton with a spy one radar, one of the world's most premier at the time, satellite radar systems on the planet. You have the E2 Hawkeye also picking it up on radar. Then you have the aircraft that could pick it up on radar. Then you have the eyewitnesses picking on radar. Then you have also the footage, a flare footage picking these things up as well, electrically.

1:20:14So you're talking about something that is at 80 ,000 feet, then within a blink of an eye has the ability to drop down to 50 feet and then go right back up again instantly. And it's all being verified by various different sensor systems. Now in this particular case, I'm convoluting a little bit because the pilots incident confirmed the tick tack, but they didn't see a dropping out of 80 ,000 feet. So I'm kind of putting it all together to make it a little easier for people to consume. But the the pick tack incident wasn't really an incident. It was incidents over over a project, protract the period of time in the early November timeframe.

1:20:50So it wasn't just one incident. There are multiple incidents, but it's referred to as the tick tack incident because the pilot actually reported seeing this white flying what's been described as a lasage, what's been described historically as a white flying but tank tank. In this particular case, it was described as a white flying tick tack like the breathment tick tack. And they saw they sort go up down on the radar systems like that. Oh, yeah, they said up down a radar systems and then the pilots actually saw the zip away and bang disappear over the horizon. Only later on within a few moments to be picked up on radar again 60 miles away at their cap point where there's a chance to run the view next.

1:21:30So you're talking incredible speeds, incredible accelerate, hypersonic velocity, instantaneous acceleration, lobster ability, all the anti gravity, all the observables. And that's just one that's just one that's publicly known. There's a lot more of these things that have been been happening. How long were you with this working on that project of the Pentagon, a tip eight years eight years. I'm an old guy. This is great. Let's talk about our sponsor we're quickly when I'm on the home stretch of so broctober and this is where I would normally share my key takeaways. And as I haven't been drinking for every year now, I thought you might prefer to hear from a listener who's given up alcohol for the first time through this week.

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1:23:27So if you'd like to learn how it can help your business head to net suite dot com slash Bartlett and free download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning that's net suite dot com slash Bartlett. What was like what's like a day in the life of someone working in a project that deals with UFOs at the Pentagon like you coming in the morning, you get your coffee. I had the two worst portfolios anybody could ever ask for at the Pentagon. I was I was I was like a pariah. I had the two most unpopular portfolios. I was on one hand. I was working the UAP issue UFO issue on the other hand, I was also working Guantanamo Bay issues.

1:24:11Very politically charged, very untenable situation, but that was my job. So I had both those portfolios. And so every day was, it was like writing a tiger to work. And every day that tiger just wanted to rip you off the page with the pieces that you just had a whole lot for dear life. Yeah, it was stressful. The 2014. I was informed that I was put on the ISIS, Hokkaida kill list for my work at involving Guantanamo Bay. And of course, we had the UAP issue. It was it was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable times. It was it was uncomfortable time for for me professionally. I wouldn't have wished it on anybody.

1:24:58Did you enjoy? I enjoyed the people. I enjoyed the mission and doing what I thought and what I think is right for our nation. I was a young man. But no, I mean, if there was an easier job, I could have had I probably would have done it. But most of my jobs, I tended to be hand picked to do the jobs I had done. I guess someone somewhere I thought I was doing a good job with other stuff and they kind of always bump into new stuff. How does your work with UFOs and your belief in these other I was going to say life forms, but just these other forms of I don't know. Activity that we can't explain because I hazard it on the word life forms because again, yeah, let me say it's not a belief in life.

1:25:43It's a belief in possibilities. I don't know. I can't tell you definitively that I believe in you know, life and then looks like this in other parts of the gallery. I don't know. I don't know that. I haven't been to space. I couldn't tell you. But we have to remain open to the possibilities and look at the data. A lot of the data speak for itself and then draw conclusions based upon the data. Did this understanding make your life more fulfilling or feel more insignificant? Because I sometimes think of when I spend time watching space movies and documentaries and I see them flying to Mars and then through these black holes and stuff, it reminds me how big and vast the universe really is.

1:26:22And all of that then makes me feel a few things. Two things in at the same time. One of them is like totally insignificant in the grand scheme of what's out there and the technologies you've described and the way you've described them. And part makes me feel quite insignificant because I'm like, I'm just this tiny little grain of sand in this never ending beach. And I really don't matter in the grand scheme of this. And then the second thing, which is a positive consequence of that feeling is it kind of alleviates your anxiety, I guess. Like nothing really matters. Nothing there's nothing to worry about.

1:26:55Because very insightful. Can I can I ask you a favor? So you have a live pattern front of you, type in the words pale blue dot under Google images. And I want you to tell me what you see.

1:27:09Okay, pale blue dots. Do you know what that is? Take a look at that. Blow it up. Zoom in. What do you see? It's a tiny little dot of light. Tiny little business massive. I mean, it looks like I'm like the nice guy almost. And there's this tiny little dot of light. You know what that is? What is that? That's the planet you live on. That's earth. That's earth. Okay. Every memory, every piece of history. I mean, it occurred on that tiny little insignificant ball, hurtling through the vastness of vacuum of space. And that ray of light is actually from the sun. And that was taken by one of our probes as it was heading out towards the solar system.

1:27:55And it was told the turn back and take a picture. That's our home. How does that picture make you feel? Totally insignificant. A relevant, like I just don't matter. But how about this? Yes, it will make you feel insignificant, but you know what else it can do? Make you realize just how special we really are. That little blue dot, the little engine that could, that's where we live. That's our home. And that is real. And that is special. So to answer your question, how does it make me feel? You can feel insignificant and still feel special at the same time. And that's why I wanted you to see that picture because you're illustrating for me exactly the question you're asking me.

1:28:45And so in order to rather than just give you an answer, I wanted you to experience my answer. And that is my answer. What do your kids think of what you do these days? I don't know what I do. My children are the greatest accomplishment of my life. There'll be nothing in my life that will ever come close to the achievement of being a father period full stop. So there's nothing I will ever do that will come close to that. So it doesn't really matter. What I do else in life, because that's the most important. Now what do they think about what I do? You probably have to ask them. Do they believe in you AP?

1:29:17It's not belief. They believe in data. I never told them believe in you AP. But do they believe that we are alone in the universe? Ah, that's a different question. Let's, well, you'd have to ask them for that. But let me let's break that down again because it's important. We'd love going into these binary things either or. Does life exist in the universe? Yes. This is living proof. This planet. In fact, life is abundant. Life is everywhere on this planet. Even the place where we think it never possibly exists. It is there and it thrives. My, my daughters are very open mind, but they're also independent thinkers.

1:29:55I taught them don't be like mom and dad. If you don't want to be like mom and dad, if we do something stupid, don't do it. Learn a lesson. So we've never prescribed our children what to think or what to believe ever. It's been up to them. They are incredibly intelligent. They both have very successful careers. And they think on their own. And what they think is sacred. And I don't ever want to interfere with that. I have always told them you don't not ask you to believe anything. Do you believe we're learning the universe? We are absolutely not alone in the universe.

1:30:30We just better hope the other life is kind, I guess. Oh, she, but there we go again. It's me too, but, but what is kind? Let's just hope they don't hurt us. Ah, that's different. Right. Let's hope they don't eradicate us. Right. Let's hope they're not malevolent. I would agree with that. Let's hope they're not here for their own interests and not ours. Why did you call the book imminent? Open the first page. There. When you get to the first written actual words, it's before the forward. It's what to say. So you may be wondering why I titled this book imminent. The way it's self sometimes is associated with another word threat.

1:31:12Although at first glance, it may appear that this book focuses on the potential threat of unidentified anomalous phenomena, UAP or UFOs in the vernacular. That is not my intent. According to some of the common definitions of the word imminent, it usually means something is about to happen or impending or inevitable. This is precisely why I chose that this title. The invasion is an imminent note. That's kind of what I'm trying to check. I know. I know, but that's not my intent. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for.

1:31:44And the question that's been left for you is what is something you will once deeply afraid of. That now you are no longer afraid of.

1:31:59Beer.

1:32:04Fear. I'm not afraid of it anymore. I used to be afraid of everything. Freedom of combat, afraid of death, right? More afraid of health care. She's afraid of other people. Not for me, but for other people. It's a little bit liberating to not be afraid. It's like the old saying the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. I mean, clearly, I'm still concerned. There's concern, but actual fear. And I'm over 50 years old, brother. There's nothing anybody can do to me that at this point, I've lived a full life. And I've had more than my fair share. Whatever it is. You know, if I spend the rest of my life.

1:32:48It doesn't matter because I've lived such an incredible life and I've, I've, have, have an incredible family. So doesn't really matter. Thank you. Thank you for your time and thank you for writing a book which gives us a very, very rare view into what happens inside the Pentagon as it relates to the subject of your ap slash UFOs. It's called Inside the Pentagon's Hunt View of Fos eminent. And I highly recommend anybody that's interested in me subjects to read this book. I'll link it in the description below because it's fascinating. You know, I, I'm certainly someone that please were not alone in the universe.

1:33:20I have no idea what that means or what that looks like. And I think to really have a strong view either way. To think that we're not alone or to think that you can perfectly articulate who is here with us is probably some form of naivety and ignorance. And probably, you know, they're one in the same right. The true believers and the true skeptics. They're just on opposite end as a spectrum because no matter what information you give them, they're never going to change their narrative. So I think you're right. And I think generally I think a better position to take on all these subjects is to remain open minded.

1:33:52And that's why I was keen to have this conversation because I'm just I like to remain open minded to information and there's so many times in history that we thought we had it figured out and we didn't. So to think we have it figured out now is is stupidity. Frankly, so exactly. Lou, thank you. My honor privilege. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:34:14Isn't this cool every single conversation I have here on the diarivaceeo at the very end of it you'll know I asked the guest to leave a question in the diarivaceeo. And what we've done is we've turned every single question written in the diarivaceeo into these conversation cards that you can play at home. So you've got every guest we've ever had their question and on the back of it, if you scan that QR code, you get to watch the person who answered that question. We're finally revealing all of the questions and the people that answered the question, the brand new version to updated conversation cards are out right now at the conversation cards dot com.

1:34:59They sold out twice instantaneously. So if you are interested in getting hold of some limited edition conversation cards, I really, really recommend acting quickly.

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