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23:55And probably the partner with the lowest comfort will generally win out. I talked to this woman, Stephanie Coons, who's like the biggest expert on marriage. She wrote a book on it. And she said the history of marriage was originally it was, you know, for property rights and inheritance. Kids were just extra workers. And then it was marriage for love. It was this radical idea. And she says now we're in this thing where it's just, you know, tick a box. Like I was at dinner the other day. And a bunch of people were there talking about their relationships and so on. And I'm going to have a kid. I'm freezing my eggs.

24:25I want to have a kid later. And I'm going to do this. And someone else is like, I'm never. I'm going to get married and fall in love and have kids. And it's like a tick a box thing. Do you want one partner or many? You know, do you want it? A lot of people are into ethical mononogamy now. Do you want kids? Do you not want kids? You can just check a box and decide. And we're in this way where we have so much choice. Ethical non monogamy. Yeah. I don't know that was a thing. Yes. Yes. Some people call it consensual non monogamy or ethical non monogamy. But that's basically your, your, uh, not monogamous with your relationship partner, but your ethical meeting.

25:01You're both honest about it. All right. Okay. Yeah. As you said earlier, you went on a journey to figure out whether that stuff could work for you, like, polyamorous relationships, swinging, all of those kinds of things. And you concluded that it just, it couldn't work for you. I think you remember, remember you saying that you kind of wanted like a half open relationship at the time. I think most people probably do. I think that's probably coming out of like a, there was me coming out of a wounded place saying that by half open to me, like, I get to do what I wanted. They don't do something. I think that usually we ever says that.

25:32And I, including myself at the time, is probably like a wounded person, like, in terms of like, I just want to do what I want, but I want to deal with uncomfortable, and I knew deal with those uncomfortable emotions, but, but, but you can't do what you want because I can't deal with uncomfortable emotions. So, so I think that the answer is. I think there's like three entities. There's you. There's your partner. There's a relationship. I think the right answer is something makes all three better. So, for example, when I was in those scenes, there were a lot of couples, and it wasn't sometimes as the woman leading the charge, sometimes as the, the guy leading the charge, where one partner was letting the other partner be more open, so they didn't lose them.

26:09They were just silently suffering. That's not good for the person or the, or the relationship. But I think if you can find a way where like, for example, one person I met, he like, he thinks his partner's fabulous, and other men getting to, he shouldn't just get to hog on that fabulousness to himself. Like he wants to share that, other people can get to experience that. And so that's a right for him and right for her and right for their relationship. And you've met people that are in that sort of polyamorous situation that are like really, really, really happy. Yeah, and here's what's interesting.

26:47Just as many people cheated in polyamorous relationships, is metogamous relationships. But I'll give you an example. Like one of the first people I met, like maybe they have a boundary like, oh, you're not allowed to do this specific sexual thing with other people, you're not allowed to do this, like they would still break. They can literally do like 95 % of what they want, and 5 % is restricted, and they'll cross that boundary. I found just as much cheating in that is metogamous, and the idea being that the idea really being, if you're healthy, whatever relationship you choose will be healthy.

27:17If you're unhealthy, whatever relationship style you choose will be unhealthy. Maybe there was something in just breaking the boundary that people find somewhat appealing. So it doesn't really matter what the boundary is, but they're being one. You're going back to that avoidant nature of trying to stop yourself from being a bird trapped in a cage and breaking a boundary as part of the thrill. Yeah, there's someone who met, part of the wisest person, a metaphor he had his full name, his name was Pepper, and he had two big thoughts, and one was that intentions are better than rules. And then his second thought was, your partner has to have an abundance of you before they can sort of be with other people.

27:55Explain both of those then. Sure. Sure, the intention is like, well, what are our intentions to honor each other, to be honest, to respect, and to have sort of intentions, which are discussion points versus, well, you can do that, but you can't do this. And behind it, those rules isn't intention. For example, what's behind the discomfort of someone sleeping with someone else is the intention to safety. I feel unsafe if you're off with someone else because I could lose you. And so the intention maybe might be safety, and maybe there are other ways to get that need met. You know, as a short guy who's like literally like five, six, and you know, and people are always looking for someone who's like six feet or over a guy, you're like, oh man, I'm like six inches below the mark.

28:39I realized, oh no, what they want is like safety there, or security being with someone who feels bigger, or stronger helps them feel safe. And I'm like, okay, I can do safe. I can't do tall, but I can do safe. Interesting. So that's the idea of intentions. And the idea of a partner has abundance of you means a lot of people are like, this relationship isn't working, we're fighting a lot. Like, maybe we should split up, maybe let's try polyamory. That's not going to work versus, or it's just, if your partner has enough sex, has enough love, has enough connection, and then you're with someone else, there's less of that fear because their full, your partner should be full first.

29:19Third thing for people are considering doing this in case they're, I'm sure some people are like, thinking maybe this will work for me. And it's, I think it's called the burning period, which is that if you do open up a monogamous, open up a relationship, there's probably there's a period of six months or whatever that you, there's a lot of discomfort and awkwardness, and it requires a lot of communication to work through it. A lot of insecurity I imagine. Yeah, our biggest fear is a child is abandonment because what happens if a parent said there, we don't get milk or water or food and we die, we can't take care of ourselves.

29:56And so we're fear of abandonment. A great, a great line from the truth is what was my, I think about this all the time when people are scared in a relationship about being abandoned, this therapist named the rain said, unless you're a child or a dependent elder, no one can abandon you except yourself. And you're like, you're not going to die of the person you love leaves you, it's just going to hurt and suck. That feels right on a psychological level, it feels like we are being, because that, that emotional reaction stems, I guess, right back to like, I don't know, being thrown off the island by our tribe or something.

30:29And when we think about the physiological consequences of loneliness as well, like the body completely changes, we go into self -preservation, we don't sleep as well, just when we're, and that's just when we're lonely. Yeah, no, you nailed it. I think there's two sizes, they abandon, like if a child's abandoned, maybe that child doesn't survive. And that's obviously happened to us children historically. And then the other side, like you said, if you're kicked out of the tribe, and this is why people are so fearful on social meeting, all these things, you're kicked out of the tribe, well, you can't survive on your own, out of the wild.

31:00So we are afraid of abandonment and social rejection. There's abandonment and social rejection and loneliness. You're, you're first but the game, I think, I think it's spoke to some men who feel that way. Like because I think those men, I think I was probably, maybe I was one of them where I was a young man who wanted to figure out how to be loved. And the game appeared to give me a code to that. In a world where figuring out how to be loved and finding someone to love me, it was kind of this like complicated thing that didn't make sense. And I reflect on, I don't know how many years we were on from the game now, maybe 10 years or something.

31:47But in terms of men feeling like they understand what masculinity is, and loneliness, and the statistics around the amount of men that are sexless, we've gone in a worse direction. Like there are more men now that feel isolated, lonely, that are struggling to find love and a partner. We've had dating apps emerge, I think, since the game, pretty much through the game. Which is confused the whole dynamic of how do I find someone that loves me? Where do I find them? It's roughly about 50 % of people now meet online. So there's this new generation of men and women that are struggling now to find that love.

32:36It's interesting, like he raised this question, why is it more connected than ever that we feel more disconnected? I think that maybe one of the issues, I think it's really tough to all be connected because we thought that technology would, we'd this idea of the global village, Marshall McLean, and stuff like that, technology's going to just create a global village. Which it did, but we forgot that the village, it sucked to live in the village. Because in the village, everybody's gossiping. You know, if you step out of line, you're, at least we were saying earlier, you're kicked out of the village.

33:08Everyone tries to keep everyone down because it's petty and it's jealous. And if you're different or express yourself in some other way, you're like an outcast. It used to be that, you know, if you left high school into college or move somewhere else, you get to just create a homely life. And now we're all in this fishbowl staring at each other. And it's uncomfortable and maybe feels less safe. On top of that, I think there's some statistic a few years ago that 25 % of marriages start in the workplace. And now you can't really date in the workplace anymore, so that's kind of on the table now. Yeah.

33:39And then I think the other thing is, people, I noticed that on the apps, people sort of have this fantasy about what they want. And then they might be with someone and start dating a few times and say, oh, you know, that one thing's just not quite right in what I want. And there's so much abundance that they can just go back to the dating pool instead of working, working it through or, or, or writing it out. In other words, before you bet someone out, you exchange phone numbers. That was like exciting thing. You got the phone number and cash, or a mention I call, I guess I'll wait two days to call and then you call and, oh, my God, I'm a seaman four days.

34:14And, you know, and there's so much excitement around that. And now you literally just, you, like, you go back on one of these apps and within like 24 hours, you have so many options. In your, in the last two decades, you've met so many people that are like struggling in relationships and love. And I guess my question is like, what advice do you give to them? The people that really, really are struggling. And it's different issues for men and women because there's, there's different dating dynamics in play there. So for, for those, let's start with men. For those young men, and I've had many guests in the podcast talk to those, speak of the statistics around young men, and also around the suicidality of those young men and, I mean, some of the really crazy stats are around suicide.

35:00I think I've shared a few times before that. In the UK alone, someone dies by suicide every 90 minutes and 76 % of them are male. Look at some of the other stats. The number of unmarried men in the United States has increased by 50 % since 1970. The number of men who are reporting that they are lonely has increased by 50 % since 1980. The number of men who have had sex by the age of 20 has decreased by 20 % since 1990. The age men have their first kiss is now getting later and later. The number of men who are reporting that they have been victims of sexual assault by another man has increased by 20%.

35:39So the stats tell a pretty horrific story. And then the same, the same here for women. In 1970, only 13 % of women over 30 were unmarried. Today, that number is nearly 50%. The divorce rate for women over 30 has doubled in the past 50 years. And I can go on and on and on.

36:01I can go on and on and on. I can go on and on and on. I can go on and on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I can go on and on. I am bothered that men are facile to finde their conscience. They have to function so they're securing the vacancy. They have to manage the Она Keep 두 dad's escape. They have to manage theộc to get her out on delays pitch.

36:54And then the a peaceful Rolling Stone on Aniland Musk and some of the thing happened where I told him the statistic and he's like, I'd have to see how they did that study before I could even comment on it. That said, I think we're in a crisis. I think what we're speaking of is like we were really like there's a real mental health crisis. And if you think about when you're a kid, like often you do have doctor's appointments. Gosh, not often, but maybe maybe twice a year. Twenty other twice a year and have dentist appointments. The same I think twice a year. And often you do have like therapist or psychologist appointments.

37:31Exactly, right? And that's our culture. Our culture is your teeth better look great. Gotta make sure everything physically is fine. But no concern for mental health, no teaching of mental health, no, so we have no foundation to build on. And then we get to our age where all those wiring and all those patterns are set and either, and then if we want to heal, we better have a lot of money because it's a rich person's game to heal because insurance and nothing covers it. So like we really want to work on this. And again, like if I could be sort of a crusader, maybe I should be, I don't maybe I need to be, is it would be for taking like mental health as seriously as we take physical health?

38:13Because guess what? Obviously stress leads to all kinds of diseases. And also so many, so much self harm and other harm are related to obviously mental health issues. And then we have this idea, we all have some sort of mental health issue, you know, like everyone does. And if you don't think you have a mental health issue, there's something going on, you know, looking the mirror, we're still, we're all wounded from the way we were raised. So, so we really need to get the culture and the system to take mental health the seriously they take all the rest of education. But we clearly find just finding it hard to just to meet each other as well.

38:49Yeah, there's a great, there's a Japanese writer and cobo Abe, and he wrote this woman in the dunes, which is a great book and movie. He has this great line. He says like he was we're wired for this tribal existence. And the city is the first place where we had a meat stranger that's not an enemy. And we're still not used to that. Strangers are scary. I think most people are scary. I mean, even now back in the dating thing, I'm just like I'm meeting someone on an app. And I don't know who they are. Like before, if I met someone that were kind of in my scene or in my pure group or somehow we share these interests, but there's just a random person on an app that literally like, maybe they're a scammer, right?

39:30Are you in that phase now where you're dating again? Yeah. How's it going? And what's what's what's new in terms of like since last time you were in the in a dating phase of your life? Let's see. I just ended like a like a short but serious relationship. It was interesting. And I wait. Yeah, I guess what's new is just the things we talked about. I think I'm with my son like Fridays to Mondays. So so it's hard. I think it's hard for someone who's not a single parent or doesn't have a child sort of understand that may have been less available. You can wreck one of two ways when you're organized.

40:08You're getting older, right? You can go. Buy a flashy car and start dating like, you know, people who feed or ego. And you can just feed or ego till you're dead. And that seems like a horrible way to go. I remember my first time in LA like when I moved to LA. I was in this like nightclub. And there was this guy in a wheelchair with a older with a mass debris. He was like very old like 70 or 80. I don't know. He was he was at Deaths door and he was around at least like two like, you know, very plet young plastic surgery. If we have had a round of them and I'm like, oh man, like, you know, I don't know whether to feel sorry for him or what?

40:43But I was like, oh, that's, that's like, that's I guess that's his life choice and good for him, you know? Some say you can kind of chase that validation. He liked dating multiple women because he liked women competing over him. That felt good when there was drama like it made him feel wanted. So you can live out basically you're living out of your unhealed wounds, right? You can either live out of your unhealed wounds or you can sort of heal your wound and see what else am I here to heal or what else am I here to do? What's going to what are the few things that make me happy and the few things I can contribute?

41:18I've got close friends of mine that feel somewhat similar from conversations we've had with them where they're in a relationship with someone. And it's almost like they're torn into two pieces. It kind of takes me back to that. Maybe the start of your journey into the truth, which is they love this person. But at the same time, they just can't stop the urge to be with, to either cheat or think about other people or to text other people, etc. And they're almost tormented by it. Yeah. And some people that are like really tormented by that. Yeah. Then you have to look at yourself. And I just all the time is what parts coming out of a wound and what parts like authentic, right?

42:02So there's one part where yeah, other people are attractive. Like if you're in a relationship and you find other people attractive or hot or like might even think someone's a better match for you. Like that's healthy. You still have eyes. You still have a comparing mind a little bit. And that's okay. It takes the right person. What's that? Does it take the right person in your view to make you commit? It takes you being the right person. Okay. It takes you 100 % takes you being the right person. And even to the degree that you're going to attract people, you're going to track someone who's at your level of growth and self -esteem.

42:36So like literally everyone who has that list of this is what I'm looking for. Like make that list for yourself and become that person. And then you'll meet that person. Like it's like just 100 % true. And but then the other side, like you said, then there's a part where it's agonizing where it's like, oh God, I mean, I can speak from experience that once I did all that work we talked about in the truth, I was like really happily monogamous with anger. Like I didn't look at other people and chase that other stuff. Like everything was clean. What changed? What changed was I wasn't afraid of going deeper into intimacy anymore.

43:11Meaning that, that like, like I would just look at her and I wasn't, I just had a wall's up. They kept me from getting closer. That I've really loving her and really accepting her. So you can either do the work with another person or do the work against that person. And against that person is acting out and fantasizing in your head and resenting. Or the other thing is you can work on yourself and work on how can I get deeper with them and how can I learn to accept them and how can I realize the issues I have with them have nothing to do with them. There's a saying, I'm pretty sure it's a saying, but that all relationship issues are historical.

43:54I think it's not about them, it's about something that happened with mom or dad. And the things you're trying to change and fix were things that you needed from your parents. How important do you think it is to be completely honest in a relationship? IE, your partner should have the pin for your mobile phone or there should be no pin on your mobile phone. That complete honesty where they are able to see and know everything. Yeah, good, great, great question. I think the ultimate balance is they have the pin for your mobile phone but they never use it. Checking your partner's mobile phone behind their back is a form of cheating.

44:33And I think a relationship needs both honesty and trust to work. Honestly, it means the one partner is being honest. But if the other partner just trusts, it's going to go just as badly. Do you think that if you cheat on someone and they never find out, do you think what is the harm to you? So if you cheat on someone, the harm to you is all of a sudden you've taken a relationship and you just like drove a cleaver through it and now you're living in a separate world than they are. You can't get back to the same intimacy that you had before because intimacy is showing who you are and your vulnerability is someone else that may accept it.

45:14Right then you're lying in bed, you're thinking about that other person, you're worried about them texting, you start being a bit different, a little differently around your partner. They sense that and they feel like something's wrong, maybe it's wrong with them and they behave different. And it sets off a whole, you know, invisible chain into motion. And you can have a little authentically connect whilst you're cheating on someone, if you're cheating on them. You can never really, it's not a real connection, is it? Because you're hiding, you're hiding compartmentalizing something. Some people are so good they hide it from themselves.

45:45You know, there's a great line, it's also from Rick Rubin, he said it's in the book. So he said, I don't trade long -term happiness for short -term pleasure. I don't trade long -term happiness for short -term pleasure. Interesting. Right, it's really good. And I hear it, so I became with the mind of this, which is in terms of guys like you and I and other women too who feel trapped by the relationship and their relationship is, I recognize that they're not keeping me from sleeping with anyone else. I can actually go ahead and sleep with whoever I want. I really can't, I can sleep with everyone, but I have to be honest and accept the consequences.

46:21So if sleeping with that person is more important than my relationship, I'm free to sleep with them. It's actually my choice. So no one's being, you're not being made to do or forced to do anything. It's all your choice. You just have to accept the consequences that, well, that sex with that person better be more important than your relationship. And so you can still, no one's keeping you from doing anything. You made an agreement. If you don't like that agreement, then make a different agreement for your relation. Q1 is often when businesses start implementing new systems and processes in hopes of creating efficiencies for the year ahead.

46:53And over the course of my career, I've learnt just how crucial having the right systems in places, one which has helped me across many of my investments is NetSuite. They're also a sponsor of this podcast. NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system through their streamlined platform. You'll find all of your accounting financial management inventory and HR in one place. Their technology has been a real game changer, especially for my team at Flight Studio. As over the last year, we've moved out of startup mode and into scale at mode. We no longer have to juggle multiple systems and having everything together has reduced the number of manual tasks and errors.

47:28Over 41 ,000 businesses have chosen to future -proof their business with NetSuite. So if you'd like to learn how it can help your business, head to NetSuite .com slash Bartlett and free download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning. That's NetSuite .com slash Bartlett. You wrote Rick Rubens book, but you also you wrote Kevin Hart's book. Yeah. What did you learn about Kevin Hart? Oh man, I love like, and he's he's one like I learned a lot from him. He's really one of my like favorite people. Like what you see, he sees what you get, he is who he is. But I learned this. And this is like more of a business thing, but he has no resistance.

48:08He does have resistance to everything. Meaning that we have a plan. We want things to work out and there's an obstacle you had Ryan Holiday and the obstacle is the way there's an obstacle or someone's just being difficult to work with or whatever it is. He just takes the call, he deals with it, hangs up and he doesn't get into a story about it. And so I don't know if it makes sense because I haven't seen this like written anywhere as a principle. But when things go wrong or there's something he has to do that doesn't, doesn't want to do, he doesn't have resistance to anything. He just does it, rolls through it and moves on.

48:42And he doesn't think I'm like one of the biggest actors and comedies in Hollywood. Why don't we have to deal with this? He just deals with it. Doesn't procrastinate. He doesn't procrastinate. He gets it done. He does stuff himself. He doesn't play mothers for bothering him. He really is like, and he's he has a strength of positivity. He's even if he's, I've seen it like quote unquote, yell at his kids, but he's so positive in accepting. Interesting. When something happens, we get right into a victim place right away. Right away, we think, why me or God, why do I have to deal with this? This is supposed to be like this.

49:16And he doesn't have that story. And he just does it. And going back to how we're raised, he was raised with a very strict mom. And like, you know, and he applies that strictness into his life as a discipline. And it works. What about Rick? Rick Rubin? What about learned, man, I mean, that book, the creative act. I originally didn't plan to write it. I just said, I'll do all the interviews for the book. And you can find a writer because I don't want to, you know, we're friends and it's okay. Like you need to find the right person for your book. But I just want to do all the interviews because I wanted to learn from him because he's produced, but everyone, Kanye, Jay -Z, like Beastie Boy is one DMC, like Johnny Cash.

49:58And he's so wise. And so I just wanted to learn from him. And this is what I think the main thing I learned in it's in the book. I'm not trying to make a book be something. I'm almost listening to the work and trying to hear what it wants to be. So I really learned to take the ego out of the creative process and surrender to the moment and understand there's something being called into existence that's not about me. And I'm just trying to guide it there and not get in the way. And it was a whole new way of thinking it wasn't an art -of -centered form of creation. It was an art -centered form of creation.

50:35Interesting. Yeah. If you're making a book or a podcast or whatever else, it's kind of get you out of the picture to allow the thing to become what it wants to become. Yeah. As an example, the truth was going to be like against monogamy and trying to maybe create a new form of relational and marriage that works better because as you were saying earlier, it's all broken. But instead of you came up with a book about a human my own trauma. And I sort of listened to that. And that's why maybe the book's impactful. Well, it goes back to what we were saying earlier. You said the first point of what they were calling a sex addiction was humility.

51:12Yeah. Or anything. And that's it. And it's really having humility in the face of the universe. There's so many other great points in that book. One of his great lines in there is about, and this is great truth, it's true of bands, his business relationships. People get in conflicts. Do you have a business partner? Do you kind of get all yourself? Oh, I used to have a business partner. And my previous business. Yeah. And he said, if you're disagreeing on things and not saying things the same way, that's great. Because if you both think alike in a partnership and want the same things and want to do things the same, then one of you is unnecessary.

51:47So true. Yeah. So true. We were successful in our business relationship because we were so fundamentally different. So there was never a cross over. Yeah. And we knew each other's responsibilities were a piece of work could come in. And we wouldn't have to speak. We knew who's job that would be. Yeah. Based on skillset. Yeah. It's great. And you're able to do that when you and not everyone can do that. You know, they're like, it's a hard thing for them. What's your mission now in life? Like you're you've done so much. You've, you know, you've been successful in so many areas of your life. What are you aiming at now?

52:21Yeah. It's interesting. And it's funny, man. When I was like a kid, when I was in college, my whole goal, there was a newspaper called The Village Voice, which was like the coolest newspaper in New York, I just wanted to write for The Village Voice. It was like, you know, the center of the arts scene and the culture. And I started writing for them when I was like in my early 20s. And then everything that was really my life goal and then everything's been a bonus. And I really think in terms of projects, like I was thinking before your show, I was looking at your podcast thing. It was like the relationship expert, the sex expert, the sex expert, the number one this.

52:51And I was thinking, what do I do or what am I? And I believe I have the saying like that don't brand yourself. Like let the world try to brand you while you keep moving forward. And I really just think in terms of projects. So I have no goal other than I want the next project I'm working on. I just want to do really great at it and share it. And then move on to the next project that I'm really excited about. The difficulty with labels is we pick them up when we ask successful at something. Yeah. And then we get stuck. Yeah. I mean, how many people do we know that it's like say the health industry where someone's like they stake their health reputation on some, something that's really true in the moment.

53:32And now maybe the research has changed. And then they're still they don't want to lose their audience though. They're saying something that maybe they don't even believe anymore because we grow when we evolve. And if you label yourself as something, well, man, it's hard to move on. And so we have to be really careful. I think we have to be really careful of that. Some people, by the way, there are certain people, they have just one mission. And that's their mission. And they and that's great for them. And they're people like you and I who are very growth oriented who keep changing. Like you had one identity before this podcast.

54:00You have a completely new one. And I know doubt that I'm like five, seven years. Maybe that was had saying seven years on all our sales recycle work completely new. They're going to be doing something equally amazing and unexpected and cool. What's that been? What was that like for you? Because your book was so successful. The game. It was so successful. So you become the game guy. Yeah. Yeah. And my my thought was if I thought was, okay, I have to do something else that's strikes people so powerfully become the whatever guy. Yeah. It was still like, okay, what can I do? Logically, that's what I would think.

54:32I think I just have to do something bigger and they'll make me for that. And then there are other people who are still doing that, who are literally the people in that book, the game who are out there still doing the same thing. And with the book, it's not like a social media post where it just kind of falls off the timeline. Yeah. It's selling every day. Yeah. And you're really fortunate to be thought of as by other people as the whatever guy on every even and anything. Yeah. So it's like, I'm really grateful for it.

54:59I'm thinking as soon as you finish a work and you hear it for the first time once you share it, you just move on to whatever is next. Why was it so resonant that book the game in your view? I don't know. It's a weird thing. It was really out of my control. And it's funny because I really feel the books. I feel like you get the book. Like to be I was really writing about mail -in security. Like it isn't a book about like, like you were saying you were lonely, you felt disconnected, you didn't know how to connect. That's what you said, right? Yeah. It was like getting, I mean, it was the girls at school.

55:30I like, I didn't know why that dude over there was really successful with them. And I was less successful than that guy over there. And I didn't realize that there was this whole kind of psychology about my like posture and how I could present myself. And honestly, one of the big things that I came to learn, I don't think I've ever said this before was at 18 years old, I was very unsuccessful with the women that I wanted. So whenever I wanted someone, I couldn't get them. Right? It didn't mean I couldn't get, you know, girl friends, whatever. But whenever I wanted them, I couldn't get them. Right.

56:07Which is obviously quite annoying. So there's like five people, it girl friends in a row that I wanted. And I couldn't get any of them. I could get other people. I was doing fine. I don't want to make it seem like I wasn't doing fine. I was doing fine. And I always wondered why that was. And then reading about the psychology of the game and understanding that there's this sort of social proofing thing and that I portray my values to people in everything that I do, how I speak, how I hold myself, how desperate I am, whether I lean in in conversations and peck them. And how to just be a little bit more composed.

56:39Right. Which you do very well by the way. Now I do. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe lots of much then. And then I saw this really interesting thing, which was by 25 years old when I was actually secure in myself, my mannerisms all changed naturally. And I fell more in line to what in the game you referred to as a natural. Yeah. As in like, I did the high value things naturally. And then I was successful. Yeah. Cause I think it was like a real shallow path to like self -improvement or self -esteem. Yeah. And it is nothing. And I think it's interesting. I felt like the, I think it did well. Because I think of the culture things as like the douchebags Bible or something like that.

57:17And for me, it was really like about mail and security and that feeling less than and then sort of finding this very shallow path. And also like, it's a path and go in the wrong direction. If you keep like you did, you, you, the goal is to become a natural mechal of all those things almost like when we're, someone's going to play to paint or play tennis or whatever it is, they're following the form and then let go and step into who they are. Yeah. And then I lost in that. But I didn't need any funnily enough. I didn't need any tips or tricks or strategies or little games, whatever. When I was securing myself.

57:56Yes. What's the book you'd write then instead? If like, if the goal is to get to a place where you're securing yourself, what is the, who, what kind of book would that be? Yeah. I mean, I think there couldn't be any other book because that was the, a, that was the path I took and be like, somehow I thought female validation would get me there when it really needed to be my own validation. Yeah. Like, how do we get, that's what I'm saying. Like, how do we get, what's the book on our own validation? Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it's, there's a couple great books on that. But I also think there's no shortcuts to this stuff.

58:28Like again, blessings to everyone who does plant medicine and I'm not against that medicine anyway. But I think like, like, you can't just, I don't think. And again, there are plenty of exceptions to everything I'm saying. But I think like, two and one, Ayahuasca, like, Journey, he is not going to, you know, are doing one of the workshops that I do in the Hoffman process or doing anything. We all wear this culture where we want these short cuts. But like, it's always that long cut. It was like the many year journey, per, the many year journey we went on to, to figure this stuff out is where we got there.

59:03So I think maybe there's no other path other than one we took. And if there's shorter path, we want to go out there. That's exactly what I think I, I wish. I think men, specifically, like young dissolution single men that are like looking for love and not having much success need now is, is a book about the long cut. Yeah. The long route. There's the long cut to get. I mean, that's your next book, the long cut. I'm not an expert on the subject matter enough to write about it. But like, what does the long cut look like? Because the long cut to self -esteem is like going to the gym, working on yourself, working on your mental health, being of service, yeah, to society, friendships, emotional expression, those kinds of things.

59:54You just did the table of contents here, book. We're getting there. That's really great. And it's funny with my son who's in the end of the room, we have Sunday service days, and we do something of service. Because I think that's like that. I love that you mentioned that. Like we try to do something. So I think those, I think I think it's true that it's really combination of stuff. And some people just look at one path, but it is a little bit of all those different components of working on your psychological health, feeling like, why do I feel less than? What was the thing? What's great, what's great about like the stuff in your past, looking at your childhood is you see that it's not you.

1:00:31I always thought it was just me, like somehow I'm not enough. And then I realized, oh no, I feel like not enough because my mom calling me all these different names, I internalized that and thought that's who I was. And I can say, oh that's not who I am and now I get to change. So it's nice to look back and see how these seas were planted. So we can say, oh that's not me. That was just some programming. And then I can run a virus scan on myself, right? And and quarantine the virus. So I think like the long cut to self esteem is figuring out why, what those reasons are. And then working on them and then all those different components you said of, I think the easiest step is being other oriented instead of self oriented.

1:01:14Being of service instead of saying, I expect everyone to make me feel good. How can I make others feel good? And how can I make my my job is to feel good about myself. There's a great line. I mentioned P .M .L .ity earlier, who's a this amazing therapist and author. She says like self esteem should come from the inside out, not seeking it from the outside in. And so like you said, you can go into gym. I think doing something physical, you know, like doing something meaningful, having friendship, social relationship connection, all those things, having looking at those different areas of your life and keeping them full.

1:01:51And then looking for things that are destructive in your life. How often are you doomed scrolling, you know, how often are you comparing yourself to others? How often are you chasing things you don't really want? I feel like you should want. And all those other things. Your son comes to you at 21 years old and says, Dad, I'm struggling. I I'm single. I'm lonely. Nobody's interested in me. Women aren't interested in me. Which book do you pass him, the Game of the Truth?

1:02:23Yeah, good, good question.

1:02:27Yeah, I don't know. I mean, first of all, he probably would never, I feel like, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like the game, maybe I give him neither. I don't know. Maybe I sort of just talk to him and listen.

1:02:46Yeah, I feel like he almost have to read both to like get it because the game can be seductive in itself. But also the game doesn't necessarily end well, even within the game for the pickup artists. Yeah, so I don't know which I give him. Maybe I talk to him. Those characters from the Game Q know where they are in their lives. Yeah, you do. Yeah, yeah, I like I, I, I, I suffer from history, who's out there doing his thing, doing workshops and Europe right now, I think. Yeah, it's funny. Like a lot of people still do it or going through just still be a man, doing them right, going in and out of the way.

1:03:21I think it's hard how we stop doing ourselves, if ourself isn't serving us. So you will be writing a third book in this series. I know you've written many, many, many books, but a third installment of Neil's kind of journey in love. Yeah, or, or, or maybe not back to the idea like it feels natural going to do the next installment, because that's what I do. But how often we trap what we've done before. Like lately, I've been doing these podcasts. True crime. These true crime podcasts that I'm, I feel like I'm hopefully helping people and making a difference and storytelling in another way and trying to like help people locally.

1:04:03So, so maybe I don't do that, but I don't know. We talked about labeling. Yeah, and that's kind of linked in with identity. What do you, what do you want to be known for? And I think this is an interesting question, because I think if someone asked me that, it's like a bullshit answer. Right. And then there's probably like the truth. Like if I could choose what people knew me for, I would be known for the businesses that I've built. Yeah. I guess the podcast as well, but for me, like I'm, I have a preference towards that part of my identity for some reason. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. I mean, I really like, I always, I always want the books to be known more than me.

1:04:43Like I like, you'll notice in the books, my picture is not on them or anything like that. I don't like, I really want the books to be known. So, just, I guess I would like it like, oh, that's a new Neil Strauss thing. I can't wait to read it or listen to it or watch it. I just, I just want to be known as like, oh, he does something that's worth noticing or reading or paying attention to. So, but that says a writer or storyteller or something, but, but really like, I'd rather the projects be known like the new podcast series I'm doing, which is different than the rest. Like, my head, I'm just thinking I just want it to be awesome and people to be like really excited by it.

1:05:18Like, and I think I'm just always thinking about the next project and I can't wait for it to come out and like, have an impact and when's it coming out? I think January. I'll say about it offline. It's crazy. Really? Yeah, it's crazy. Because when I saw you were doing a true -crime podcast, I thought, does that mean you're like reading out stories from cases that were, you know, a couple of years ago or something? Yeah. Okay. I'm a big true -crime fan. So, I don't listen to any other genre. I don't even listen to this podcast. Right. We have a close -in tradition on this podcast where the Laskas leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for.

1:05:57The question left for you is, describe a moment in your life when uncertainty was dominant. How did you navigate this uncertainty? And how did it change you?

1:06:10After 9 -11, and then after Hurricane Katrina, I think we had a certain thing in Americans that we felt were just Americans not touchable or something like that. Nothing bad happened. And then when 9 -11 happened and we responded in the way we did as a country and felt like the whole world hated American terrorists and you know the yellow red, all these alert levels. And when Hurricane Katrina happened and so bodies flowing down the street in American city and here was a disaster, the government knew it was coming and there was nothing we could do about it. I think I felt this existential uncertainty, which is like, which everybody feels now, by the way.

1:06:51The whole world feels it now because no one trusted the system, no one trusted the government, but this is like, it felt new then. It's crazy how now everybody feels this way. And certainly I felt was like, fuck, you can't rely on the system to protect you. You're on your own. Is that why you wrote the book about prepping? Prepping. Yeah, that's how I wrote the book about prepping. And then what I did was... Prepping is basically preparing for the worst possible day. So like, Doomsday or I don't know, like a world or a nuclear bomb. So you start, start piling in your house. Stuff that will mean that you can survive on your own.

1:07:21Yeah, learning kind of survival skills. So I guess the way I felt that, I felt that existential uncertainty and way I did that was two of the things that would allow me to feel safe and give me like peace of mind. So the idea is when I feel the uncertainty, I try to take the steps that give me peace of mind and are constructive and not de -structive. Sometimes it feels like we're in such an uncertain time. Then people do things that are giving them peace of mind that are destructed to themselves or others. Like all a lot of hatred and division and things like that. But recognizing, I think that that uncertainty may be comes from within.

1:07:57So what I did, I guess, I guess I guess like the answer is when I feel the uncertainty, I go on a journey that becomes a book whether that was the game that's certainty about dating relationship to the truth or uncertainty about the world of this emergency. And are you still a prepper? I'm prepped. But at the same time, I also recognize there's only so much you can prep for. You know what I mean? We don't know when these disasters are coming and we don't know how it's going to come or what it's going to look like. We had a pandemic, so we think we're perfectly an exponent pandemic. But the next thing that's going to happen is nothing we're ready here.

1:08:29We're concerned for. So I think the best thing you can do is be like mentally prepared for the unknown and crisis situations. But I did get like a second passport and all those things in case I need to get my family to safety. So second passport maybe the answer. Neil, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for writing the truth because this book has certainly helped me to, I said to you before we start recording, there was a part of this book where you describe a bird in a cage and that's exactly how I felt. And then you go on to reframe that notion to make me understand that I'm not trapped in a cage and that I am consciously making a choice to be in the relationship that I'm in.

1:09:09And at any point if I wanted to leave, I can. And for me that I do in this book is part of the reason that I've been in a wonderful successful relationship for the last four years that is enriched my life. So thank you so much for that. Your writing style has always been something I've admired so much. And even when I became an author, I remember that being friends of mine that you were able to take me on these incredible journeys. And in through a spied to write, we can do a whole other podcast another time about your writing ability because that is profound and evidenced by the fact you've written Rick Rubens book, which is behind me in Kevin Hart's book and many others that people don't know about.

1:09:43So thank you for the inspiration. It means a lot to me and thank you for your generosity. Thank you. I'm excited for where your journey takes you and at the next conversation on Parenting. I look forward to it. Thank you. Do you need a podcast to listen to next? We've discovered that people who liked this episode also tend absolutely love another recent episode we've done. So I've linked that episode in the description below. I know you'll enjoy it.

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