Francis Ngannou Breaks Down Sharing Heartbreaking Story: "I Don't Know The Purpose Of Fighting Anymore", "I Feel Powerless", "I Don't Know How To Deal With This!"

32:36That was the toughest part. I spent almost one year in Morocco. Trying to get to Spain? Yeah, trying to get to Spain. I did a lot of attempt in the water and also in the, in the fences. When you were living in Morocco, where were you staying? Wherever you find in the desert, in the forest. It depends on what you're looking for. For example, if you want to go to the fence, trying to fence to escalate the fence, which is in Malia for the most part, then you have to stay in the forest of Morocco. It's like living in the forest between trees. And then you heard what you're eating. What you're eating, everything that you find.

33:28Sometimes there are people that can make traps and get some animals. But for the most part, we will wait night time to go to the market. Because the police are always around, you know, on the cover police. We will wait for the night, for night time, go to the market, go to the market trash, and then find like a rotten, rotten stuff like that. They throw away where there is tomato, paredals, chicken legs, because they didn't eat chicken legs. Who was the best thing for us. So we will find stuff like that in the trash and go back in the forest and try to make a meal. How were you to have money? Were you trying to figure out how to get to Europe?

34:14Were you trying to learn the best way? Because I can't imagine, or did someone tell you how to get to Europe? There is a lot of people there that are trying to do the same thing. It's not just you. You left your house by yourself. But by the time you get to some point, you start to meet people that are in the same journey. By the time you get in Morocco, there is a lot of hundreds of people. Are you training at the time? Are you trying to stay fit? Yeah, sometime in the forest. I mean, you have nothing to do. You would do push -ups, you would do some apps, but otherwise, what would you do? And you were still dreaming of being a boxer, even though you were a boxer.

34:58Oh, yes, that was the thing. I mean, that was my motivation. I think if he wasn't about that, I wouldn't have left my country. He was just about that. I never thought about anything else. So that was the reason why I left. How did you know you'd be good at it? I didn't know. But he was about to find out. I didn't know at all. I had no idea. I could have been very bad. I could have been good. So he was just about to give it a try. And if he doesn't walk then, at least I try. I think it's the most important thing. It's to try and give it all. And if he doesn't walk then. Well, we reset. There's two ways to get to Spain.

35:51You can go over the wall or you can go across the water through the sea. Yeah. Across the water it could be very dangerous. Dangerous and difficult sometimes. I try a couple of times. Did you try the wall? The Bob Do I? Yeah, I tried the Bob. I have a lot of scars on me. A lot of Bob wires scars on me. Really? Those are Bob wires. Those you see my fingers?

36:27I have a lot of that. I try and I attempt in the ocean like six. I felt six times. What happens when you try and go over the Bob wire fence? Did they catch you? Where the spot that we picked, because it's about like 12 or 14 miles of fence with Bob wire. So we will have like an outlook guide that will go walk around all those. And then trying to identify a spot that there is not too much Bob wire or that the Bob wire has fell. And when there is not a lot of cut because there is a cut on the Moroccan side and there is a cut on the spain side. And some way there is like three fences and then Bob wires on like maybe the first one or the two.

37:24There is not a chance that unless you can fly you cannot go there. And it's like seven meter high. Seven meters high. So it is not possible with Bob wires. Without Bob wires, yeah, that's good. But and then they clean the surrounded of the fences. So the guy has to stay like far from the distance to trying to identify if there is a failure of Bob wire somewhere. You know, so it's very difficult. And on days a police a Moroccan on the Moroccan side, there is like a boxes of a guard in like an interval, I don't know, maybe 20 meter. Every 20 minutes as a guy. Yeah, 30 meter. There's a boxes of guard.

38:19Sometimes some boxes can be empty. But from where we are, you don't see. Need somebody to go there like a week every time, read everything, monitor the information, you know, like the post, the guard, how they been. The schedule. Yeah, how they being changed because it's permanent. But one person does a state at 24 hours, I think it's like eight hours. So you have when he spotted a spot that there's not too much power, then you'll be like, okay, there is a outlook very far there is a outlook from the space I very far and then this boxes is there God inside. You might take him days to just find if find out if those boxes have God.

39:12Someday is going to go by and then like wait, they can stay in the same spot for like two days just to wait. And then when the truck comes to change ship for the guards to change ship. Yeah, for the guard to change shift and then you will see who's box has the God and who's box does a half. And then what time they come and these what time they go, if they pray, what time they go to pray. And he need all those information before prepare a attack and eventually you prepared an attack for the fence. Yeah, and sometimes you prepare the attack. You see all those you collect all those information, then as you are getting closer to the fence, you realize that there was a bar wire.

40:09You couldn't just see from where you were at. You know, or that maybe they someone that is in the floor, they dig like five meter long like this wide and then the true bar wires all the way. Then you ran, you ran by maybe 30 meter or 100 meter. They can see you coming, they know that you are coming. Now you are taking advantage on like because you are in a group of people and then you get closer and then you find like five meter bar wire. You can jump five meter is not possible. So what did you run back? What you run back or some by the time you run back is if it's a group of you. Some people who fall in the bar wire because they didn't see or maybe you are in the front line, you see.

41:02But you can go back because there are people, it must be you coming, the bar just push and then you fall inside the bar wire. Did you ever try and climb the fence? And did you get caught? Yeah, I tried to climb the fence. I get out of those bar wires on the floor once. That was the time that I fell in the bar wire. I tried to climb the fence but the bar wire on the fence was painful. Big. I was trying to hold it and he was just catching my face. I'm like, okay, I see.

41:42I get to the point that I'm like, you know, I'd rather be alive without being a Europe instead of being dead in Europe. Wait, it's going to be another time. It's not possible. So you eventually decide that you want to go via the sea in a boat. You're going to try and take a small little thing. Yeah, that was, that was, I mean, even before I tried the bar wire, the first thing that I tried, it was a boat. And why did that happen? I mean, it's not like the boat is a small inflatable boat that you can use in your swimming pool, stuff that they use in the swimming pool. We call it dinghy. You can put it in the swimming pool.

42:22You get it in Walmart. In Walmart. Yeah, exactly. So that's a, you tried to cross from Morocco to Spain in one of these small inflatable boats. You couldn't swim. No, I don't know how to swim. But guess what? I ended up being a captain. A captain of the world? Of the boat. Because it's certainly a captain. It's certainly somebody to organize. Somebody that knows how to paddle. Somebody know where we are going. Somebody know how to organize like for 10 people to get in the same boat from going from the ground to the ocean. And then like how to they get all those organizations. And then I practiced, I did it so many times that I become an expert.

43:09So you trusted or know how to swim? We tried six times to get across. What happened in those six times? Sometimes we get caught. The majority of time we get caught. And what happens if you get caught? They send you back to the desert. Yeah, to the desert. Not to Morocco. No. You are in Morocco. You get caught by the Morocco Guard. Yeah, but then they just bring you back to the city or something. No. Because there have been finance to protect people from the area of the boat. There have been finance by European Union or something like that. From holding you guys down there. So every time that the catch somebody, they make a report of that person.

43:58That okay, we catch somebody and then we send them back out of Morocco. They'll just bring you to the to Algeria border in the desert and through you guys. And you will figure out your way. So they throw you back in the desert without food every time you got caught? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty, pretty horrible. Where is life and even today there's people out there doing the same thing. And even though he's getting harder and harder, I don't know how they do. But I don't want to find out. It's horrible. So you would, but then you went back again and tried again for a seventh time. Why didn't you give up?

44:40You've tried defense. The fence doesn't work. You've tried crossing six times in a small inflatable boat. That doesn't work. Why didn't you give up? What for? Give up, go back to Cameroon, maybe live in Morocco. Go back to what? Don't I get a job in Cameroon in Morocco?

45:03Why couldn't I? Why shouldn't I try again? It was all about trying. And I think like when your dream is so big, when you have something, it's hard to give up. You get to the point that you are capable of risking more for just a dream, which is something that a normal person will not understand. I just asked myself now why didn't I give up at that time? Why did I keep doing this? Why did I take those risks? Because there was a moment that even now I think about it, I'm like that was stupid. It was like a dead sentence. You just get lucky from coming out there alive. But I took those decisions. Your dream was so big that he blinds you.

46:00You couldn't see anything else except what you have. Not what is in front. You couldn't see anything in front of you except what you have in your mind. You could only see what is in your mind and regardless what is in front of you, what the obstacle is in front of you, you can only see what in your mind and it couldn't nothing could stop you. And what was that in your mind that was pulling you? Dream. Dream to make it to go. Have that box in. That box in career. That set up stability for me and my family and my potential kids so they don't have to go to what I've been through.

46:51I knew that if I gave up, I wouldn't be able to look in myself in the mirror like this. He would be ashamed of to live with myself. I couldn't live with myself. He was hot. He thought about it. He thought about like, oh, maybe, maybe there's not a way, what for? Like going back and then maybe some not really have something to do and someday you see your child gets sick and you feel powerless just as your parent went to you and like, no, that's not happening. And then the seventh attempt was successful. Take me to that seventh attempt of getting across the sea to get to Europe. You get in the boat, there's you in a couple of other men.

47:42You start paddling. The sixth attempt was close to the winter. Okay, we get caught. And I was just close. We were already on the other side. We get caught by an army. It wasn't even like the coast guard. It wasn't even the coast guard. It was the army with a big ship and they were passing by going somewhere. After three hours inside the ocean, we were paddling. We knew that we were getting there. And then we get caught.

48:24Back in Morocco, they knew that we were gone. We made it. And then at that time, he was like close to winter. The winter was coming. The water wasn't stable anymore. We couldn't attempt anymore. And for me, he was that I tell myself that they did that. And I'm touching the ocean again. I'm not coming back ever. I don't know exactly what I was willing to do, but I'm like, it's not happening. This is it. You know, my frustration was top to the level. So, we recruit back in the forest, trying to try fences or just stay there during the winter. Because the water, I mean, yes, you can't try some crazy stuff.

49:29But only when you see that there is an ounce of a chance. But when you look at the oceans, the big monster rising up with those waves, you know that you cannot go through. There's no way. No, you can't do that. It's not a small inflatable zone. And then his coal is freezing. So I think what was even scary the most was the coal. You would just get frozen out there, you know. So I stayed in the forest for like months, months. And once when the winter was by the ocean, the end, I had a friend that people, he was in Tangshui. And then he reached out to me. He said, I have a ship. Let's go. I couldn't leave Tangshui.

50:25I did everything. I get to the bus station. And there was so much police and this. I didn't want to end up in the desert in Ushdah. I'm like, okay, just. And then the next day, the next day, we are running from the police from 4 a .m. to maybe 4 p .m. We came back to our spot. I opened my phone. I saw like 12 missed call. I checked and then he was like, it donated. It was the guy that was calling me. I'm like, damn, I could have been making it too with them. Did they go to Europe? Yeah, they go to Europe. Like, for all come on. I couldn't sleep there anymore. And I have a lot of call. And people was like, yes, we want you to be our captain.

51:20You wait. This, that, that, that, I'm like, I'm going. And I didn't want any promises. Like, oh, we're going to do this by a boat in one week. No, I have a guy that we've been talking for a long time. He said, I have a boat already. I'm like, let's go. So you get on a boat, an inflatable boat. I heard that you wrapped yourself in silver foil. No, no, I didn't. But I was planning. We put a life jacket, though. We had the one thing that we are very strict about is a life jacket. Yeah. I didn't. But because over time, you learn a lot of stuff. And you know that those silver foil would deviate radiation from like, you know, they have the red radar.

52:11Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you wear this over, then the radar can't find you. Yeah, the radar can find you. You can see you. Because when the radar is going like this, and then you see like, I think it's infrared or something. And then he's seeing movement. You're like, d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d. But when you have that silver foil, they can see you. So that time, tell me about this successful journey. You get in the boat. Not even a few other men. No, we didn't get in the boat. I went to Rabah, which they were. What's Rabah? A city. Okay. I went from Nador to Rabah to meet them. like, okay, when are we going to Tanghue?

52:51Because I've been living in Tanghue for so long until winter that I went back to Nado. So they are living in a rabbi, which is kind of like a city and they have those little jobs of construction. I'm like, when are we going? I made them there and like, okay, let's go down. I'm like, oh, we are still walking. We are going to get paid on Saturday. And this is what went. Like, I think this was like, Tuesday. I'm like, bro, I'm not staying here on Saturday. Bro, my blood was boiling. Like, I'm like, man, I missed this. I could have been making it with the other guy that called me. So we, they are leader, they had guy of the group.

53:44He said, okay, then I will go with you. Because I was a captain, I need to go and check the place and everything. They'll go with you. The rest of people they can wait until we give everything is good. We give them signs so they can come. We move. By the time we touch ground, we are stepping down of the bus. In Tanghue, I got sick. I got a fear. And we are going to this house inside mud. We have to take our shoes off, walk inside mud to get into this house to sleep, something like that. And I was sick, bro. But I can tell anybody that I'm sick. I'm the captain. And people saw me in Tanghue, they're like, wow, this guy is here, he's going to make it.

54:37He's not coming back. So they are trying to bribe the guy that I was to get them in the group. And you're like, no, we collect the money together to buy the boat. So I can take anybody out of it. And I'm like, if because they call me Vandam. They say, if Vandam is the captain, you guys are not coming back. You're going to make it. And I was sick. Nobody knows. So long story short, we've been there for like a couple of days. And I didn't even have any money to eat. And then I checked and tenet every day to check the way there. To see how the ocean is. And he wasn't so stable. And I found one day I think was Tuesday.

55:33And he was a second, April 2, 2013. And I say, this day is good because this is the speed of the wind. This is the direction of the wind. This, this, I know that thing. I don't know how I know it. But by the time I know it properly, I was a captain. So I say, tell your guy to come this day because we are living. By the time they come with the boat, we are not sleeping here with the boat. But we have to just be going with the boat because it's a very, even the police, when they're like, boss into houses, they will search for that. And they came. We get to the, to the, to where we were going, next to where we were going.

56:19But the police car was up there. So we couldn't have fled here and then put the rifle inside the ocean without them seeing us. Now we have to make it the two or night long. We make it the two to go somewhere in the front. And even though I was sick, usually captain, you don't carry stuff because they protect you for the big action, for the main action, which is inside the ocean. And then while we are making these the tools, some people are being left behind and this, I'm like, the probably the, where is the boat, where is the rifle? They say, oh, it's here, it's to this ground, like bring that rifle.

57:01If you stay back, stay alone. Don't stay, don't stay back with the rifle. I take that thing. I like, if somebody want to go, he has to catch up with me. I just lead the way and keep going. And all night we go up and then finally go down to the step and find the place. And he was all rocks. And I'm there, you know, we used to go to where to the beach so they sent. It's easier because like when you walk to the sand like this, to go inside water and every first step get you deeper and deeper. Now you are in the mirror of rocks. And then the ocean is there. You don't know how deep is the ocean there and how you're going to get in that ocean.

57:47You want just, you can just jump like this to get in the ocean. And then the way for so strong, you will feel like, I'm like, damn, was it night time? Yeah, early in the morning. Okay. Because we are waiting, we are aiming to do this when the call for 5 a .m. prayer. Okay. Yeah, but we get little late because of those two. But I'm the captain. I'm the one that everybody is expecting on me. And we were, it was nine of us. So as I tell them, okay, with me here, let me find a place. You know, when something is yours, it's yours. I walked around and I get somewhere in the mirror of rocks. I found it spot just bigger, as big as this table, enough to inflate the boat, just enough, no more than that.

58:54And it was like this. Clean, I touched it. There wasn't anything sharp on it, just like that, enough. I went back and called out the guys, like, let's go. They came, like, okay, let's inflate the boat. Eventually, the boat gets in the water, you go. Yeah. And the boat is rescued by the American Red Cross. By the Red Cross. I don't know if it was, we know there was a Red Cross base in Spain, in time. Did you get to Spain? We didn't get there, but we know that there is a Red Cross inside the ocean. In fact, in fact, we have their numbers. So you knew there was a Red Cross there. Yeah. So you got close to Spain.

59:36And then the Red Cross came and got you. We get far from the Moroccan coast. But we don't know where is the limit. But we just get far from this coast and then trying to get as far as possible inside the ocean and call. But the problem is that you're in the middle of the ocean and even though it's where lands the closest distance of the two continents, from this side, you can see the other side. But in the middle of the ocean, when they say, where are you? What are you seeing? You can really give them a direction. So sometimes because their goal is just to rescue you, their goal is not to bring you to Spain.

1:00:18And if they cannot find you, they will even call a Moroccan coast guard for help. And if you know you're lucky today, you get fined by Moroccan coast guard. You know where you're going. You're going back to work. So we parallel like for one, I think it was like I want half almost two hours. And then there was a helicopter in front of us. And it was like standing there, like it was looking about something. And I tell the guy that, okay, this is not a good sign. Where did this helicopter can play against us or it can play for us? What we do, call, we call now. Because when they ask, if they ask what I would use seen, we will see the helicopter is right above us.

1:01:09And then we call. So you called the Red Cross. We call the Red Cross. You called the Red Cross. Yes. And what did you say for the rescue? Oh, we are in the inside ocean. We need help. And then I don't know what pick up the phone and say the actual, if we have, yes, how many people do you have ladies in the boat and this? I'm like, what the hell is this problem? We are human beings. And I'm like, yes, we have ladies, even kids. We didn't have kids, we have ladies. I'm like, what's that? What's different that makes? Like you will just let off us here because, like, yes, even kids. I say, okay, what are you seeing?

1:01:51You see, we say the helicopter right above. I say, okay, we're coming. Did they found you? Yeah. And then right after that, he started rain. And the water really get bad. He was moving. Now we are in the mirror of the ocean in this little boat just as like this table and he's like going all... We tied, get tied in the mirror. We were, it was nine of us. How long did it take for the Red Cross to find you? Like 10 to 15 minutes? It's quick. Yeah. And they take you... Yeah, I think a little more, maybe like 20 minutes. And they take you to Spain. And then when the, when the finals, because now you was little harder to find us, because he was raining and the ocean was unstable, you know, when the ocean is stable, you can see something from fire away.

1:02:50Now, this is there is something crazy that happened inside the ocean. Like from the coast, the ocean is flat. When you get inside at some point, bro, ocean has mountain. Like there is a way that you are climbing. And then until you get to the peak, and then there is a way that you're going down inside the ocean. I don't know how it works, but it's exactly like that. And you can see like he's here, mountain inside the ocean. And they took you to Spain. They found us. And then took us in their boat. They have a real boat, you know, like solid big boat. They took us inside and then brought us to their headquarters, which is in Spain.

1:03:43And you stayed in Spain in a detention center in a cell with 10 or 20 other men for two months? Yes, it was like, I think, 53 days. How were you treated?

1:03:59Treated? We were eating. But it was a prison though. It was quite a prison. I think you get to the point that you're like, maybe they should just let us inside the ocean. Or maybe we were better in Morocco, because you are locked. You can do anything. You realize that you had freedom, even though your life wasn't the best. That's when, I mean, you are here. You are getting fed every day. But they tell you where, when to eat, when to shower, when to go sleep, when to go out, and everything. And after like a couple of weeks, it started to become hot. Because at first you were excited. I'm like, oh, I made it.

1:04:50You're excited. I'm in Spain. I'm in Europe. But after a couple weeks, I'm like, come on, man. Like, I need my sentence now. Because if you had a fake idea at one point, and if you... Oh, no. When you get caught, you make sure that you don't even have a receipt or whatever on you. So you threw it in the water? Oh, yeah. When did you throw it in the water when you saw the red cross? I know. When you're sure that the red cross will get you. Because otherwise, that would be your way out in Morocco. Sometimes he can prevent you or not to be thrown in the desert. When did they... They released you from the detention center in Spain?

1:05:31Yes. Eventually, after almost two months, and they gave you 50 euros. No, not from the detention center. There is a association that comes, charity for refugees, some organization that are out there. So they will come, take you, and then bring you to their place. And where did you... Where did you want to go? What was the plan? So you're now in Spain, you're free. You've got 50 euros. So my plan, first of all, was to go to... First, I wanted to go to the UK. But I knew that, even though I'm in Europe, the free circulation in Europe will not allow me to get in the UK because they are not in that zone, in the Schengen zone.

1:06:15So I think I started for Germany because I wanted the place that boxing was big. But for somehow, I was in a group of people that most of them, they were like, oh, we are going to France. Oh, Shanzeleazy, oh, this, all that. And in the 9th of June 2013, 26 years old now, you arrive in Paris. And I read that on your first day in Paris, you figured out how to eat, where to sleep, and you found a boxing gym. Where did you sleep when you arrived in Paris? In the back of the lock. You slept in a parking lot. How long did you sleep in the parking lot for two months? For two months, you slept in a parking lot.

1:06:53How did you, so you arrive in Paris, you're sleeping in a car park. How do you find a gym, pay for a gym? Oh, next day. I was after it, so I finally get where I could start that dream that I've been having for a decade. What do you do? Did you just walk up to the boxing gym and say, hey, can I come here for free? Yeah, basically what I walked in the front desk and they gave me this form. And then I saw the prize and everything, and I couldn't afford it. And I'm like, can I talk to a coach? To the boxing coach. And the lady said, the boxing coach is not there today, but he has his substitute is there.

1:07:36You can talk to him. I know we are just explained. Straight forward like, okay, I arrive in Paris yesterday. I don't have where to sleep. But what I want, I want a place to train. So that's why I wanted to see a boxing coach. If he can let me train here because I have no money. I have nowhere to sleep. I have nothing, but the only thing that I'm asking for is a place to train because I want to become a world champion. Straight forward, that was it. And he said, if you have a phone number, give me your phone number. I'll speak to a boxing coach. He'll be here on Wednesday. And I'll give you a call back.

1:08:17That's how I gave him my phone number, had a phone. And then on Thursday morning, he called me and he said, here's I spoke to the coach and he agreed that you can come and train. And the next training is Saturday. And that's how he started. Did he come on? Yeah, he did come on. Did he come on? Was that man that you met that day in the boxing gym that gave you a chance? Yeah. And he let you train for free. How he speak on my behalf to the coach who let me train. Let you train. Yeah. And he gave you new pair of shoes. I read that he gave you keys to an apartment to sleep in as well. Yes, after like two months, he gave me, he gave me a key.

1:08:59He has like one apartment that he was, I think was Airbnb already out and then he get free for a cup of tea. And at time, I think he knows me a little bit more and he gave me that apartment for almost two months. He changed your life, didn't he? Because if he hadn't have said yes, if he hadn't have introduced you to the person, if he hadn't helped you. He helped me a lot. He helped me a lot. Change my life, I think is too much say. But he helped me a lot. But I mean, we were at the gym and then he knows exactly my situation because I was clear to him, telling him everything. But other people at the gym didn't know.

1:09:41And in fact, he at some point even told me that you don't have to tell your story to everybody. They don't need to know your situation, you know, like. Why did he help you? Why did he help you? Because it was kind. He just liked me and liked to help me. And he helped me a lot. It's because he didn't have a reason. No, he didn't. A lot of people who have expectation that maybe at time you would not know but let her on you will find out. But he was just genuine. He never have like expectation. You know, in fact, sometimes he's a guy that sometimes you will even call. You will not be around, shut down his phone and everything.

1:10:26He's always been like that. Because it was quite difficult to become a boxer in France without having all the correct identity papers. He eventually suggests that you take up mixed martial arts as a way to make some quick money. And in 2013, 26 years old, you went to the MMA factory in France and introduced your coach to yourself to a coach called Fernand Lopez. And within four months, I mean, he saw something special in you in terms of MMA. And within four months of that, you had your first MMA fight. Yeah. What did you think when you first saw the sport of MMA? Did you ever heard of MMA before?

1:11:03No. So did you, was the first one to talk to me about MMA? And I'm like, oh, yes, you have a good tracking. If you do MMA, I'm like, what's the MMA? It's martial art. Okay, good. Then what's that? Was mixed martial art. So yes, it's like boxing, it's wrestling with this. I'm like, I think I have seen that once on the TV, I was working TV, I see something like that. Like, yes, if you have, if you learn some good wrestling, some down defense, little bit of a grappling and this, I'm like, what's grappling? So I explained the whole thing to me. And this is back in 2013, June 2013. And I'm like, bro, nah, that's not what I want.

1:11:50I want, you know, the my Tyson boxing, right? See, yes, I'm like, that's what I want. You fought five times in Europe before you assigned for the UFC, which is quite remarkable because a lot of people spend many, many, many, many years trying to get into the UFC. You fought just five times in Europe before you offered a chance to fight in the UFC. I didn't even, I wasn't even planning to go to the UFC. And, but as soon as I started to fight in France, then he became, he became very hard for me to have a fight in France. People didn't want to find me, find me. Why? Or they say, I'm brutal. And I'm like, it's a fighting game.

1:12:36I mean, the, the goal is to be brutal. And then I'm not having fight because I'm brutal. Like, I heard your coach, he actually posted on Facebook saying, I'm asking if anyone in Europe wanted to fight you. The person will anybody in Europe fight for France's? Yes. Nobody wanted to fight you. I mean, no, anybody at that level, because even though a lot of people didn't want to find me, I was still on experience. So he's not like, they will give, just give me to anybody. But nobody either like, want to take a risk. There is not again for a elite fighter to fight me. He's risking of losing everything.

1:13:20But not the more, not quite a lot to gain. Were you aiming to be in the UFC? Because you now you knew what MMA was. But when you started becoming an MMA fighter, were you trying to get into the UFC? No. How did that happen? I was just like, you know, training, because I had time, I was jobless. So I have all my time and I like to train. And I found MMA, I found MMA very exciting. I like all those stuff. So I was training boxing MMA. And then I started fighting MMA. And sometime maybe I would have like a couple hundred year old fighting MMA. Those were very welcome at the time. So I'm like, let's do this.

1:14:04But that was it. And people keep saying, oh, if you improve your jujitsu, if you do this, you're going to become a UFC champion. Like, then what? I really like, I was so focused on boxing. And then, but I think like MMA came to me and gave me that opportunity. And then all of the sudden, I'm sure I have the UFC contract. How did that happen? How did that happen? Did they call you or your agent or your manager? So I think a friend, I don't know a guy that was in manager at time, he, Thiago, like a Thiago, Okamura. Yeah. And then he was the guy that was pitching me to the UFC. Okay. So you will manage your coach knew someone, he was pitching you to the UFC.

1:14:56Yeah. In manager. Okay. And then that's how I get, that's how I get the UFC contract. Where was your first fight in the UFC? Orlando. Orlando. Was that your first time in America? Yeah. It was the first time. And I remember like, I get there. And I'm like, okay, and there was somebody at the airport with the tablet with my name on it. And then pick me up with the card like, brought me to the hotel. They hired residency to check me in, brought me to my room. How did it feel? Then I call home, I call my mom like, I don't know what it is, but I think your son have made it. Finally get to that, like, I mean, like I get to America, basically.

1:15:51So that's what, because for so many years, America was the dream to get in America. And I get in America and in a big way, not the way that I get in Europe, because I get in Europe in the service door. I get in America, basically on the red carpet. That was it. That was 2015. 2015. How much that first fight, does that make that first fight make you rich? No. You didn't pay much for the first year of C -File. Yeah, he was $10 ,000. That's $10 ,000, win bonus. And then with all the commissions, you got out with almost just half. But he wasn't, he wasn't about the fight. He was more about like, I think me coming to America and all the stuff, he was more than what I was making in the fight.

1:16:47That's nine years after you left Cameroon, you fought for the UFC Heavyweight Championship belt. And eventually you won that belt and you held that UFC Heavyweight title. Yeah, but I lost, I fought before. Yeah, you fought a lot. Yes, I fought in 2018. Yeah. But eventually you won. You won this same guy. Yeah, I lost. I've watched your career, so I've watched the journey and it felt like for the first start of your career. I don't know, it felt like maybe you weren't as focused, but then it felt like this other half of your UFC career, something had changed. I was focused, it's just that I didn't, I never, I never done sport before.

1:17:28I didn't grow up at the Adlet. So I didn't know how they do. I didn't know how to train. I didn't know how to prepare for his championship. I didn't know anything. So I was just out there trying and then in that fight, I did a lot of mistakes and I learned from it and I'm like, okay, the good thing, I might have lost this fight, but this fight would be the biggest fight in my career because everything that is coming after this fight, everything that I learned in this fight, I will implement that in my game, in my career, from now on and you'll be quite helpful. You have the hardest punch ever recorded by the UFC, the equivalent of 93 horsepower, a smock car by comparison, Max is out at 80 horsepower and they called you the Predator.

1:18:23You did eventually win the UFC heavyweight title and you held it between 2021 and 2021 and 2023 and eventually you left the UFC in January 2023 because of basically a disagreement with the UFC with Dana White about, I guess, freedom and money. Yes, freedom and treatment the way that I was being treated, I didn't like it. Was there ever a moment where you, realized that you'd really made it? You're a young man that come from Cameroon, walked your way out of the, through Africa and then you got on a boat and went to Spain and then from Spain to Paris, then from Paris to America and then you reach the highest mountain which is you win the UFC heavyweight title which is like the peak of fighting.

1:19:20Was there a moment where you thought I've made it? It's not like you reached the high mountain, you know, whatever mountain you are on top, there's always, then when you get in the peak of the mountain you realize there's another mountain that's higher. You know, and you realize that what motivates you, what keep you going, wasn't the peak of the mountain but he was the peak of all mountain. So then you keep, is never a satisfaction, satisfaction. Even though you take a moment, I'm like, oh, finally make it to the top, you know, you take a breath but you know that you keep going. It's, I think it's a mindset that you have and basically will not stop.

1:20:10Like you don't have a limit, you don't have a place that you say, okay, if I get here, then I'm done. There's always something around, there's always something which is set as a higher mountain, you know, so, but I think what I do is to take time, you know, I like to go home a lot and I like to go back on my path and every step, every time I will be there, I'm like thinking of the moment that I was there like maybe 15 years ago and you feel like it was just yesterday and I will try to see like where I am today, you know, see the difference. That's exactly when I realize because when I'm here, I'm just living like it's normal like it's everybody, like he was just like this all the time.

1:21:01But when I get back, I connect with the path and then I realize how far the road has been. And you've, you've really gone, I mean, it's been an incredible journey. Has your mother ever seen you fight in the UFC? Has she ever been there? No, I try, I try to get her to my fight back in 2019. She couldn't get it if she's a she get her denied twice. And I'm like, okay, this is so stressful. I'm not doing it again. It was also embarrassing, stressful one. And even for her, he was very tough. And I'm like, okay, I'm not putting hard to this again. There will be a moment, I think if I set up, if I send settings up pretty good, there will be a moment that things will be easier for her.

1:21:52So see me fight. Why are you fighting? Why are you fighting now? I mean, you made, I mean, the reason you left the UFC was because of freedom issues and you didn't like the treatment. You wanted to be free. The argument you had with Dana, you know, you say that essentially you weren't willing to comply with the system of the UFC where you don't really have the option to go in box and do other things. Dana White said that you're in a place where you wanted to take less risks and you wanted to fight lesser opponents for more money. So we're going to let him do that. Is that true? Do you agree with what he said?

1:22:31He said you wanted to take less risks and fight other opponents, lesser opponents to make more money. I think if we have to spend time to talk about like what Dana White say if it's true or not, we're going to spend a whole night here and then don't be okay with a lot of things. I think the situation was a little bit embarrassing for him and then he was going to make a statement and find his way out. Less of an opinion. Like living my comfortable career in MMA that I'm quite comfortable into, to step into boxing to take the best of for my first boxing match which I never really do a professional boxing match.

1:23:19Does that sound like an easy fight? I mean, I think he has to say something and those who know that he has just has to say something to get out of that situation. What's the truth? Easy. He didn't want to compromise, he didn't want to change and I felt like that situation wasn't good for me and I turned myself if that's the end, then let it be. I mean, in fact, I had no guarantee that the boxing that I've been dreaming of doing I will have to do it, he will happen at the time but I didn't just want to comply and do things that I'm not okay with just because they let me with that one option to say yes with things that I don't like.

1:24:14That was the thing. I was very aware that that could be it but he has to be on my term and even though he means like going back to Africa, I don't know, farm. I love farming, I always love farm and if that meant I had to go back and farm, I was okay with it. So I made my peace with myself at time and that's why I stood with my decision. I turned down a lot of money that I didn't have at time. I was for the most part, I was broke, I was living out of loan. So yes. You're the heavyweight champion of the world in UFC. Your broke. I mean, not that broke when I say I was broke. I mean, for a heavyweight champion, I wasn't comfortable.

1:25:12Not at all. Yeah, I wasn't comfortable. Were you a millionaire? Maybe but never made a million if I'd but the... The machine made was 500 ,000 pounds. Except if I have accept to sign a new contract, I would have been having a lot of money. But that contract was coming with a lot of things that I was fighting against and that's why I didn't sign. So I'm like, okay, whatever this deal is, whatever this contract is, I'm fighting this contract of instead of renewing the contract for and have more money and really have nothing changed. That means I'm setting myself up for another year in the same situation that I'm giving away all the power in a contract that is not giving me any power.

1:26:09The power you wanted was freedom. Yeah, was freedom was a possibly to say, okay, this is not right. You can do this. You know, all you have to do is you have... I mean, I need the obligation. I don't want a one -side contract. I don't want to contract that, okay, there's I have no right. But in the other hand, the other side of the table will have no obligation. So in fact, I mean, I'm giving everything for nothing. Just for money. I want some of that leverage. So you wanted to be able to decide and you wanted to decide? But I want at least some responsibility on the other side showing towards me.

1:27:01You know, I want some responsibility. For example, when I come to like say healthcare, for that level, for the money that I could have been making, for the money that I would have been making, if I had signed that contract, I could have had any kind of healthcare that I want. But at the same time, I also want the guy on the other side of the table to take some responsibility. I'm like, okay, I'm giving you a healthcare, for example. So you wanted something like healthcare included? Yeah, I want stuff like that. I want something like a guarantee. Since I'm making this of a living and I'm exclusive to you, you guarantee me that whenever I could fight, you find something for me.

1:27:49You are obligated to give me a fight. Know that because if I don't sign a contract and you want me to sign and you want me to run out of money and crawl back to you because I need those money, then you staff me and not give me a fight. Okay, so you know that you know that I might need to, just because you know that I might need to or to fight, to make a living, to keep up my lifestyle. Then you're strengthening back down to one fight, so I will be needing money and then will be forced to take a contract I don't want just because I need money. So I want to make sure I'm super clear on this. You essentially wanted a guarantee of fights within the contract so that you can do a deal of engagement.

1:28:35I'm giving everything. I'm giving up all my rights. Exclusivity. Exclusivity. You can't do anything else. But I really, yes, but you are not committed to anything. So, okay, so I'm the UFC, I'm not committed to anything, but you have to give up your exclusivity. And I'm not even guaranteeing that I'm going to give you. And then some exclusivity in that contract said in perpetuity. Forever. So exclusive forever in certain situations. At the same time, you really have no obligation. But I have no responsibility obligation to give you anything. So it's really one sided. Yeah, I get. So if you decide not to give me a fight for two years, I can say anything.

1:29:17And you starve. But if you call me and say, oh, you have a fight in, okay, I have a fight. I want you to fight in one month and I'm say, oh, I'm hurt, then you have your right to say, okay, I'll extend your contract for six months. Oh, okay. So if you turn down a fight, then they can extend the contract for six months. And that doesn't matter to the reason. For any reason. So you could be saying, and there's nobody will be consoled for that if that's fair or not, they make the decision. So you, so I could know that you are sick and I could offer you a fight knowing that you couldn't take it. And that would extend the contract six months.

1:29:51So you decided to quit and you knew that when you quit, you could lose everything. There was no guarantee that you could go. There's not a bigger fighting. I decided to leave, not to quit. Okay, you decided to leave. And when you left, did you have a plan? No, really? How do you feel about the UFC now? I don't know. I think they do business. How is good for them? They do a good business for themselves. I just wanted to do what's good for me too. And you went on to do the impossible once again in your life because many people thought that maybe you were gone now. You were gone from fighting. But then after that, it was announced that you'd be fighting Tyson Fury in a boxing match who is the World Heavyweight Champion of boxing.

1:30:43And by many people's account, you know, I watched the fight as well. I stayed up in the UK and watched it. You beat him. You didn't beat him on the scorecard. But I think in every sense of the word, you beat him. And for that fight, you got paid, I read, many times more for that one fight than you got paid in your entire UFC career. Yes. From one fight with Tyson Fury? Yeah. And even in my view, you would have been a Tyson -suri fight or you would be a PFF fight. I knew that from that moment, every fight that I would make would I would be paid more than what I've been making my entire career. Why?

1:31:32Because my last years, years in the UFC, I could have been making more if I have accepted the contract. So I basically left a lot of money on the table in order to get my freedom, about my freedom, basically. You know, the they say that they say freedom is not given. It's not given. Freedom is not free. You have to give something in order to get that. So that's why at that point, I made some less of a money because I refused. I turned down a lot of money. But it worked out. It worked in the end because you got paid more in that Fury fight than you ever got. Lucky eye. Yeah. And then I read that for the fight with Anthony Joshua, you earned about 15 million pounds, which is almost 20 million dollars.

1:32:28True. I don't know. I haven't counted.

1:32:34So I can see if it's true. This is, I mean, it's not true. It's not true. Yeah. But you earned a lot of money, right? Yeah. Life changing amounts of money. What's life changing you? I don't know. I'm enough money to change. I don't change life, depending on where we are standing from. You're speaking from my side or from your side or from your side. You give 10 million to somebody. He's just another 10 million and he won't change anything in his life. And you give 1000 to somebody. He changed his life. He saved his life. He would take that 1000 maybe send his kid at school or maybe buy them some medicine, save them from illness or something.

1:33:21So life changing money is not a amount. Why are you still fighting then? Because you don't need to. Why I start fighting? You have to find in order to know why I'm still fighting. You have to know why I start fighting. Why why is that? I love fighting. You're not doing it for the money? No. When I started fighting, there was no money. I fought a lot of fights for free. That I had no other pennies. And what is your goal now with fighting? You've done it. I mean, you've done it. You did the UFC, you've done boxing. As I said, there's always a challenge. There's always like, could this be possible?

1:34:07Can I don't this? You know, like, what's my limit? How far can I go? I think, I think whatever we do in life is a shame. If we end up not really find our full potential or not giving it all. You know, I think I can give everything that I have. Then I go home. But as long as I still feel like I have something for fighting, I have something to give to the fighting community. I go to the gym, I get excited, I wake up, I think of training and I get excited like, oh, this is it. I still have that motivation, that fire in me. I think I keep doing it. You know, I go to the gym, I train, I think like, oh, I learned something, I have some improvement.

1:35:01You know, or there's something that I really want to understand. How it works or how it wants to master. Yes, I think it works like that. You have to remember that it's not just fighting. It's a martial art. Fighting is a martial art. And martial art never ends. Before MMA came around, you will see people character, kung fu, taekwondo, they were doing it for like six onto their 60, 70, 80. They are still doing it because it's a passion. If you're someone running a business today, that means you're probably operating in a world that doesn't sit still. Tariffs and trade policies are dynamic. Customer expectations shift constantly and the pace of innovation is relentless.

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1:36:52But there's a biggest mountain. As I said, there's always a biggest mountain. There's always a mountain ahead that is bigger. What is the big mountain in front of you now? What's coming? What is that? Another fight. Do you want to become the heavyweight champion of the world in boxing as well? It never be my goal. My goal was really, because I was a world of the situation. My first fight in boxing was less than a year ago, October 23. And I was what? Already 37? It's not a moment in your life that you're expecting to have a career into a combat sport like boxing. He was just like, okay, what can I do?

1:37:41And I think that question is so standard. And even for MMA, I think there's a lot of things for me. I've been doing even MMA for just like 11 years. And I think I have a lot of things to learn, to experiment, to show in the fight. I think I have a lot. And I still have that passion. I'm not very young, but I still have a couple of years in front of me to be doing it. Because after this, you have to remember that after this, maybe by the time I'm 40, 42, then I'm retired. What a early retirement. We only have that short window of a time. Then I'm 42. Like, is it time that most people a career just pick up, but we are forced to retire by that time?

1:38:35So why would I just like do what I can do until then and see how far I can go? You fought Tyson. Many people think he won the fight. Incredible fight. You fought anti -Joshua. You lost that fight. And I think at the end of that fight, Anthony actually says, he says you need to carry on boxing. You need to carry on going. And I think that's the sentiment that everyone has. I'm carrying on. I don't really take that fight as a note. Because not to say, I mean, you will be a fool if you are going to fight basically in boxing. Somebody like Anthony Joshua and don't think that you can lose. Right? Or trying to make a excuse of losing.

1:39:22If there is somebody that you can lose against in the combat sport, then he's somebody like Anthony Joshua. But honestly, on that fight, there was a lot of unfairness. And then, wish, may have been for something or not. But there was a lot of unfairness. Unlike the Tyson fight that everything was straight. And I think nobody was giving me a chance. And then everything was fair. No sneaky stuff. But the second one, he was so messy. What do you mean? A lot of tricks. Like, they will get you everywhere that I was going in that week. I have to wait at least one hour, one hour and half before the beginning.

1:40:18Or before Anthony Joshua arrived. But they always send a car to pick me up. Like that amount of time. Even the five day. The five day I stay in the locker room for four hours and a half. The send a car to pick me up. Pick up time. 10 .30. Because you're supposed to fight. They tell me upfront. I'm supposed to fight around. Me night and one PM. So pick up time. One a .m. Yes, and one a .m. Sorry. Pick up time. 10 .30. It's like, okay, good. It's how it works. Is that amount of time? Then you get in the arena. They're like, oh, yeah, there's a producer. Like, oh, we are running behind clock on the broadcasting.

1:41:12So we might be fighting at 145. Okay, it's not that bad. I've been training to fight in that time frame in around one PM. One a .m. Bro, we are sitting there and then watching Antonio Joshua arrive in the arena at 130. Like, how come you tell me that with you the guys tell me that I'm going to fight around me night and one o 'clock? Or that is delayed. I'm going to fight at 145. And then he's now just arrived. When he arrived, we know that it's about two hours before the fight. You don't get in the arena one hour before the fight. No, it's two hours. And stuff like that, they did a lot. Again, not to say I couldn't lose the fight.

1:42:08But do you think they were doing that intentionally? Yeah. You think that? Yeah. I said the whole week he was like that. They were wasting your time. I mean, I think he's a trick. I didn't know before. But I think he said he's a trick that they have in boxing. They have a lot of tricks. And in fact, like in the week during the week, my coach doing it because he's a very very compassionate. And he was like, at the get to the point that he was really mad and was yelling about it. Like, no, this is how you get to get to get to get fighters. And I'm like, no, it's okay. I didn't know how deep was the problem.

1:42:48You know, on Sir, I get in the final set then I'm like, okay, this is serious. But he was too late. Were you tired? But it's very tired. But the time was slipping. You were sleeping before? Yeah. I don't know why. I don't know if he was just a fatigue or whatever. I was in the locker room getting warm up and fell asleep and feeling asleep. So that's why I like, personally, yeah, I take that loss, but I don't put it in the context. You know, I think it could have been different. Do you think you could have been to him? I still think I could have been him. I could have lost too. But no, that easy.

1:43:33Yeah, I think it was so easy. I'm like, I wasn't, I don't know. Yeah. Did you feel like yourself? No. No, no. No, no.

1:43:51But I think it was my mistake. I shouldn't have done good in the furifight. I think that was what was expecting in the furifight for me to lose maybe in that fashion. You have, you come out of the fight with Anthony Joshua and you go back to making plans for the future and then life shows how cruel and unfair it's capable of being when you're 15 month old baby boy, Keri passes away just a few months ago. I'm really sorry. Thank you. And it is the most unimaginable thing. Yeah. I know. Not something that I never, I never imagined and all of the sudden nothing really matters. All of the sudden you realize that you were complaining about a lot instead of being feeling blessed, being grateful, you were complaining about things that didn't work.

1:44:59But in fact everything was working well. How are you? How are my? Yeah. A life, I mean surviving. But not the same. I don't think you will ever be the same. And I can explain how in just 15 months, I mean I saw as myself how in just 15 months, a kid or a person can take this much space and basically became you to the point that when he's gone, you, you feel like you're missing too. Just 15 months. I mean two years ago he wasn't there and I was living good. He came and he left. And I felt like, I don't know, is a weird type of thing. Basically like after what I was saying earlier, like my whole life was about to do, to fight in order for my family not to go through those situations, not to feel powerless or useless in the situation and for the very only person that I should fight for, I couldn't, I didn't even have a chance.

1:46:32So sometimes only that idea is painful. You didn't have a chance? Yeah, he wasn't sick, we didn't have to take him to the hospital, didn't have anything like that. I wish I could have taken him to the hospital, find for a good doctor, like make calls and do stuff, you know, feel like I'm useful. I'm playing, I'm useful, just as I always want to be.

1:47:08So that was it.

1:47:14Is it possible to, is it possible to have you been able to grieve and process it? How do they grieve? How do they process it? I never learned, I never know how it works, you just feel it. Someday you do with it, someday you do without it. How, how do they deal with that kind of situation? There's not a, how they say, there's not a process that is set up to to learn how to go through. People would do it in different ways.

1:48:09And how long it takes to grieve, when did it stop, whenever?

1:48:20You know, one of the big conversations in, I think that's become quite popular is the idea of mental health and protecting our mental health and being aware of our mental health. When something like that happens to you, it's the most, I mean, I've never, I don't have a children yet, so I don't, I've been through something like that, but I can just imagine, the way that I try and imagine it is I have these wonderful nieces and nephews in my life. My brother is a year older than me, has three children, and they're like my children in a way, and just the thought of something happening to them is the most, it's the most unimaginable crushing feeling to me.

1:48:57And men in particular aren't very good at dealing with things, compared to my partner, for example, she's very expressive, very emotional, you can express us how she feels. What do you like at expressing how you feel? You don't learn how to express, I think I found myself very emotional at some point, more than what I thought. You don't, it's not something that you command it, you don't control, just happen, and then you discover yourself. And you still did not process? Yeah, you discover your own self, you think you've been through a lot, you think you're strong, you thought you were strong, you realised you were a palo.

1:49:46How was your family, your mother, everybody else? Surprisingly, I think a lot of people are doing pretty good, better, which is for me a surprise, I always walk around like the toughest guy, until now. Until now, yeah. And I get to, you know, just being tired, just getting tired, being tough, I think it's exhausting. Being tough means you have to be true over and over to a lot of shit, which just, not easy to deal with. Because people see you as a, you know, they see you as a tough guy, that's your, they call you the predator, you know. I don't know. I've been questioning myself about that lately.

1:51:00Yeah. That's why I like, you see people trying to know somebody, pretend to know somebody. Meanwhile, they don't even know themselves. Like you can know somebody who does even know his own self, you don't know who you are, you don't know what you can do, what can affect you, how you can deal with things that never happen to you. So you can't expect to know that about somebody. What have you been questioning in yourself?

1:51:47If I can deal with stuff, if I can't handle stuff, I've been doubting about my capability of stuff sometimes. What are you talking about? In terms of dealing with stuff, handling stuff, emotional things? Yeah. Yeah.

1:52:18Yeah, even emotionally, you know, there's a lot of, there's some days that you wake up and you don't, you think about everything, about stuff, about everything. And it's really like what's the purpose, what's the goal, if it's going to end up like this, was the purpose of finding if our end up not being able to fight for the only person that I've been fighting for.

1:52:54Let's talk about something else. Yeah, I'm sorry.

1:53:13What else you get, move on to something.

1:53:24I am, you're in Vegas at the moment. Yes, but I'm going home, so going back to Cameroon. Next week. Next week. What's the plan? I'm going to be there for a couple weeks. I'm training now. I want to really make a purpose, make a, have a purpose, you know, make a sense of all of this. And I think I'm going back to fight. So I've been training a little bit because like, I get to the point that I feel like I really need to push myself to get out there, start to think about something, fine purpose. And that's what I'm doing. Now I'm training. And I think I should fight. I need to fight. So my fight before the end of the year, you know, I think some MMA fight will be good to get back in the loop a little bit.

1:54:27Before going back to boxing again. You're fighting in a new league under a new promotion. Yeah, which is very exciting. I saw the announcement. Yeah, I'm supposed to be fighting. No, I'm not fighting in the U .P .F .L. Africa. I'm fighting in P .F .L. Global. But yes, we, we, we allow, we launch the P .F .L. Africa and they announce it the other day in Nigeria, in Lagos, Nigeria, without one of our new partners, Ilius. So it's been good. And you're, it's about purpose now. It's about finding new purpose, you said. Yeah. Fighting a reason, fighting for a reason. You know, something to fight for.

1:55:16I think it's what you, you make it a purpose to keep going or a reason to keep going or a reason to stop. But otherwise, either way, it can serve as a, as a reason. And your reason, your purpose, you're going to get out there and find them. Yeah, I think my son was full of life. I think if there's one thing that he wasn't, he wasn't inactive. He was very active. He was very curious about staff. He was, and I think, the best way to honor him would definitely not be to quit or to live thing like that because of him. I think if his day is a way that he would like to things to be done, was to serve as a motivation, to be a reason for things to happen.

1:56:21That's what you've always been, Francis. So you've always been, you've always been an inspiration. He's now an inspiration, I think. He's now your inspiration. Yeah. I had so much in this kid, like he was just 15 years, 15 months old. But you know, I have so many plants, was doing this, was preparing that, was having the bird building, the basketball court, was getting ready for his, like looking for a soccer cleat of his size. So we can go play soccer when he started, because he just started to work. When he saw it, we could play everything. He became, he became a, a goal. He wasn't like just a kid.

1:57:11He was a goal. Like, was exciting, waiting, you know, his day and his time. But yeah.

1:57:30So, Friday nights, the goal is to fight before the end of the year. So I'm training, I'm keeping the shape, but I have to go back in Africa a little bit. Is it easy to train at the moment? Is it day by day? It's day by day, I think. As I said, like day, someday, like, I don't just really want to do anything. I don't really care. And those are the day that you, I mean, that's how, that's what your, your heart tells you, like, your heart don't really care about anything. Then your brain will tell you, be reasonable and tell you that to go. That's when you really have to at that moment, that you feel like you don't want to do anything.

1:58:19It's exactly the moment that you have to do something to get off of the, because like, those emotions, they have pretty good assuring things around you. Sometimes you get in the, just get, I don't know, in the bath. And then just get stuck in there and then memories and stuff. Just get your stuck in there and you're, it's so sad inside that you don't even know that you can push the door and get out. So you have to do something, you have to keep. And then when you push the door, get out, maybe work in the room or something, then you change your mind and you're like, oh, this picks something down.

1:59:03And then you have changed your mind. But if you stay in that bathroom, those same memories will run over and over and over. Have you spoken to a therapist? Hello? Or anyone that can help? Do they help what, do what, take a pain away? Or bring him back? I think it's a process that you have to go through. Is it pain that you just have to learn with, it's like having a handicap. You just have to learn to deal with. There are people today that live pretty good without hand or food, a food, wish at first or they get empudated and they have to rehab to deal with. You've been in inspiration your whole life, your whole life to so many people.

1:59:59You now say that Kobe is your inspiration and he's the reason. And your motivation. And he's the reason why you are striving. He's the mountain, he's pushing you up a new mountain in your career and this chapter of your career. And I'm really, really looking forward to seeing this season of your career play out. I hope I'll be able to do it. I just have to get out there and find out. Francis, we have a closing traditional Miss podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest. So the last guest has left a question for you and they don't know who they're leaving the question for.

2:00:41Okay. And the question is here, when did you last realize that you had it all wrong? When my boy passed away, there was a moment that I realized that everything, I mean everything that's been my reason for fighting for the part that was the moment.

2:01:17I really felt like I felt like I fell. You felt like a failure? Yeah. I felt how I just felt like I could have done something.

2:01:36Just like.

2:01:47Francis, I have to say a huge thank you. I have to say a big thank you. I'm not just saying thank you from me. But ever since I heard your story that that time in Paris when we're in that hotel, you put my life in perspective. You gave me gratitude that I probably didn't have to the same extent before because you've been through an incredible journey and throughout that whole journey. You've got this perspective for life where you understand more than I ever did what's important. Things like family, things like principles, you've understood that more than I did. And you also, having gone through that entire journey, I didn't hear you feeling pity for complaining about the struggles you'd been through.

2:02:38And I reflect on the life that I've lived and the things that I'd dwelled on. And I thought, oh my god, this guy has walked out of a really, really dire situation in but this the most incredible life he's climbed to the top of the mountain. And it's funny because when you climb to the top of those mountains, you get there alone. What you don't ever get to see is that you've actually brought millions of people there too because you've inspired them. And you've shown them proven that they have no reason why they can't do. If Francis could, if Francis could go from Cameroon on that journey through the Sahara desert, he tried to climb the fence, couldn't get over the fence, then went through the sea on the boat from Spain to Paris, from Paris to the USA to the top of the mountain to beating Tyson Fury.

2:03:22There is absolutely nothing that I can't do.

2:03:30I think so. I think there is a lot. We set our set for, we set a lot of limit of our set by just like, oh, it's not possible. Which again, we don't know what's possible or not. But stay in there thinking of what's possible or not does the have actions. And sometimes you try you fail. It's okay. You stand back up, pick your shade, reset, start again, and then answer, you make it. And then once you really make it. And I'm like, oh, it's good, it's ingenious. Like, how did you know that this would work? It didn't know anything. Just keep trying, just refuse to give up. It's just like that. And it's something that, you know, because at some point, like I feel like I need to succeed in order to prove everybody with that was daring at me, to prove them wrong.

2:04:32Because even like coming from where I came from, having the idea of boxing, bro, he was the worst thing that it was dream that you could have had. Like, everybody, nobody believed in it, in the dream, not in me, but just in the dream. Like, it's not possible. We can't come from where we are to get there. It's not possible. It's not mean for us. Find something that is around us and get settled, you know, like they really thought I was losing it. Basically, like when I let my workshop in the village, like, say, go to the city, I was 22 years old, and I saw my motorcycle, like, okay, go to the store and buy clothes and stuff that I'm doing boxing down, like, okay, this guy has killed to the top level of craziness, what the hell is this, you know, and everybody, touted.

2:05:33I mean, even my mom said, like, you're my son, I always stand by your side even when you're losing it, like, now, like, okay, at least I know that, you know, but I don't want day, he happened, I made it, and I'm like, wow, he's a genius. How do you know that? It's going to work. I didn't know. Just keep doing it, you know. So whatever you have, you can keep trying. In my work, my knot, but at least you will be in peace with yourself knowing that you have given it all. I think it's the most important. People I saw if they were to fail, that they don't even try, and I think that's really, that's the value from not taking action.

2:06:22The failure is not actually the fact that you're not succeed, you don't succeed in whatever you do. The failure is not taking action. It's not even trying. That's why you really fail.

2:06:39Francis, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I want to say it's the most amazing honor, and you're such an incredible person on an, on and off camera. You're such a wonderful human being, but you're just the most tremendous inspiration. I've interviewed three, four hundred people, but I've never, ever encountered a story. You do that a lot. Yeah. As heroic as yours. I write if I don't interview people. Thank you. Yeah.