Gavin Newsom, The Next President Of The US? "America's At Breaking Point & Trump's Playing Dangerous Games!"

24:16To your point, I thought, this is it. This is my bliss. This is, I'm going to keep doing this forever. And then I got a damn call from the mayor of San Francisco. Can I just ask you on that question? When that guy came in with his fiance, why was it so meaningful to you? I can literally still see the emotion in your face some 20 years later. Because what I did had meaning and mattered. In a way, I never thought I thought it was a transaction. I thought it was buying something. I was selling something. Wasn't that, man? It was marking a really important moment in his life. Business changed after that.

24:49It wasn't business. It was just, it was a different proposition. Then you get a phone call. And I get a phone call and screwed everything up. Willie Brown says, you know, you just opened this store. And, you know, I've been reading. You were complaining, getting those permits. It was taken too long and he's Willie Brown. Willie Brown, the mayor of San Francisco, former speaker of the California Assembly, one of the most dynamic, one of the most extraordinary politicians. In California history, I would argue American history. And I don't say that lightly. Some of the world's great leaders will identify as Willie Brown as one of the most transformative political leaders.

25:26And so there's a couple articles in the paper about me bitching about permits and parking or something. And he calls me and goes, this is Willie Brown. I'm like, what was the mayor? He goes, hey, come on down. Next Wednesday, I'm going to put you on the film commission. I'm like, this is amazing. I'm over the other film commission. I'm 20 some years old. Got a wine store about to open a restaurant. I was working on and now he's put me in the film commission. I go down to City Hall. That next Wednesday, it's a group of 20 or 30 people. He's swearing a bunch of people into commissions. And he says, and Gavin Newsom, you know, opened a wine store down the block.

26:00Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob goes the new chair of the parking and traffic commission. I'm like, I thought I was going on a film commission. Literally didn't tell me or anyone. I didn't even know what chair meant. And all of a sudden, 26, seven years old, I'm now the president of San Francisco's parking and traffic commission. He just randomly put me in that position, inspiration, desperation. I know what the hell I was doing. And that was how my political career began. Literally that phone call, that appointment, not to film by parking and traffic. And that marked a pretty significant moment in hindsight in my life.

26:41And that was a pivotal moment in your trajectory, because you were on course to continue being an entrepreneur, probably for the rest of your life. Could have been somebody. So give me the whistle stop between that moment when he places you in this role to here. I know whistle stop is a tough word to use to describe that journey, but what is the whistle stop? Well, I just, I mean, I put my head down. I learned everything I could back to sort of the humility of not knowing we don't know and recognizing, you know, success leaves clues and you can learn from everybody. And I started listening, learning from people absorbing.

27:18And I applied myself as parking, traffic commissioner, so much so nine months later. There was a vacancy on our board of supervisors, our city council. And Willie Brown goes, you know what? You've been doing a pretty decent job here, man. I'm going to give you a shot. So I was a relatively young guy. Now is the entrepreneur business person on our city council slash board supervisors. And I just hit the ground running. I opened, I by that time, opened a few extra businesses. It was a part time job, but I started to apply myself a little bit more full time. I had to put together a management group to start managing the business and start applying myself more is a supervisor.

27:56I spent almost seven, eight years doing that. And as a relatively young guy, 33, 4 and Willie Brown was termed out as mayor. And there was an open, oh, the mayor's seat. And I think at 33 announced, why the hell not? You know, give it a shot. Miss 100 % shots, you know, take. And it was, I think pulling third or fourth and decided to go for it. And ran for mayor San Francisco. You became mayor of San Francisco. You had a big impact while you were mayor of San Francisco. One of the things people remember you a lot for is your attitude towards same sex couples and the defensive marriage act, where you took a quite controversial stance at the time by enabling, I believe it was same sex couples in the state to get their marriage licenses.

28:43Well, I was, yeah, it was 2004. And my party, the Democratic party, was not, people were not enthusiastic, weren't even promoting. In fact, they were almost universally opposed to same sex marriage. And I had an experience in Washington DC, Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, invited me as a new mayor to listen to George Bush give his final state of the union speech. And I was there with an extra ticket, her husband's ticket. And I was up there in the rafters listening to George Bush give his speech. And in the speech, she's talking about Iraq war, he's talking about a lot of interesting things.

29:18And he ends with it's time for a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage. Everyone starts applauding. And the people around me are applauding. I'm like, Jesus. I walk back out and you had to put your cell phones early cell phone days. And we're all in line waiting to get our cell phones back. And I remember the couple right next to me, as I'm waiting in line after the speech goes, that was a hell of a speech the president gave. I'm so sick and tired. I'll never forget these guys said. I'm so sick and tired of the homosexual agenda. And I'm like, and I literally turned homosexual. I'm just pejorative.

29:51And all I thought about is man, I want to introduce myself as mayor of San Francisco. I didn't say a word. I didn't even thought about marriage equality. When I ran for mayor, no one asked me about it. They were talking about domestic partnerships. It was literally that moment that I walked outside, used that cell phone, called my chief of staff, and said, we need to do something about it. He goes, well, what do you mean? And I said, well, I'm going to come back tomorrow, man. Let's do something. So I just got elected mayor and made the decision then. And it unfolded a few weeks later to start marrying same -sex couples.

30:25And we married Phyllis Lion and Del Martin. They'd been together in almost 50 years. You talk about faith, love, and devotion, constancy, what marriage should be about. They were denied the ability to marry for only one reason. They were same -sex couple. And we decided to test the law. And was told that people found out and they were not going to allow us to move forward with the first this marriage. We were going to do a simple ceremonial marriage and then file a lawsuit. Courts open at nine o 'clock. They were going to do a temporary restraining order. I realized I was mayor. I could open city hall earlier.

30:59So we opened city hall at eight. We married Phyllis and Lion, Phyllis and Lion and Del, rather. And at nine o 'clock, the court's opened and we waited for the decision. And the judge said there's no irreparable harm. There's no reason to have a temporary restraining which meant that we could keep marrying same -sex couples, which was not what we had imagined. Fast forward, what we call the winter of love in San Francisco. Not the summer of February, 2004, 4 ,036 couples from 46 states and eight countries came to San Francisco to live their lives out loud, to say I do in this magical experience that just shook me to the core and changed just my relationship to my party.

31:52They were pissed. They were furious. The Democratic Party. Yes. And I got an earfall from all of them. People I would adored, revered, the same people, the same people that said, all of them, I mean, this is the road advice that everyone gets. Whatever you do, just do the right thing. Do what you think is right. I remember that's what they, you know, hey, young man, congrats on being married. Just do what you think is right. You do what you think is right. How the hell, who the hell are you? I remember those, who the hell are you to do what you just did? And it sort of shook my confidence in this whole racket of politics.

32:28Like, what am I doing? What did I just do? But it was, it was a hell of a first impression as mayor to do that. And that sort of started my political life. When I overlapped the dates here, when your mayoral race in 2003, your mother was getting, was sick in the years in the lead up to that. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. So you're contending with the woman in your life who's clearly had the most impactful role on shaping who you are and being there for you when the odds were against you and when no one else was. In the lead up, and it's as your sort of political career starts to accelerate, she is suffering with breast cancer.

33:07Yep. And also suffering with her son being in politics. She did not want me to go in politics. In fact, the biggest regret she had is that I was walking down the path that my father was interested in that led to their divorce in the first place. He pursued politics and lost into elections for state senate and for county supervisor, ironically, the seat that I held, lost both races was in debt, was humiliated, defeated. Said he had a breakdown and left. That's when they got divorced. And she saw me walking down his path. And she loved seeing me in business. She ended up working for me as our bookkeeper.

33:49And she saw my passion in the business. She said, why the hell you getting politics? Don't do this to yourself. And she literally, near deathbed said, just please don't do this. Don't, don't keep doing this. She was really upset that I ran from there. Something I think about, you know, there are days where I like, I go, she told me so. You know, when you're sitting there facing a recall, I told you so. A recall for anyone that doesn't know is, you know, in the middle of, you know, you get a four -year term and two years later they say, you and they get a petition and try to get rid of you. And I faced that just second time in half century in California.

34:28I defeated it overwhelmingly. But that was a hell of a thing to experience and to see the nationalization of that recall. I mean, the entire Republican party came out to try to take me out politically. And you think about what your mom said. And you're like, she may have been right. When did you realize that your mother wasn't going to make it with her breast count? It was when she went through so often as a case. She fought back. It was in remission and then boom it hit again. And it metastasized and it was, and she did. It was, I'll tell you, this I will never, ever, ever, ever recommend for anyone.

35:03And this is just my own personal experience. She called me left of voice message. Imagine getting this voice message. I was very busy doing all this stuff. And obviously not attentive enough to her. And she was making the point. She goes, hi honey, cheer mother. And you know, you haven't seen me in a while. But next Thursday, I won't be around. So you may want to come next Wednesday because it will be my last day. Literally left a voice mail like that. I call my sister and I'm like, what the hell is this? She goes, she's crying. And she said she just told me she's going to do an assisted suicide because it's so bad.

35:39She left a voice mail. And so that next week, I was there. My sister and I were in her room. Dr. Comes in gives her some, what turned out to be oxocotin. I remember like early on like what are these pills? She had to take those an hour before he got there. She takes them. God is my what going through. I can photos like this man. It's all she wanted to see. All the old photos of us growing up. And we're sitting there on my sister on the left. I'm on the right. My mom there took these pills waiting for the doctor. And she's going through all these old photo albums of us growing up talking about these moments.

36:16Yeah. Come on man.

36:21So yeah. But wanted to be there for Dr. Comes in and ministers. And she starts gasping. My sister runs out. The doctor had already left. And I was like, she's gasping for air. And I'm just sitting there and holding her hand. And her last breath. And I just sat there. My sister had no one walked in. I felt like for a day. I felt like hours. But it was just probably 10 minutes for someone finally came in. Just sitting there with my mother passed away and not realizing that moment. What it represented. What it ultimately meant. I regret that was hard. I don't be there for assisted suicide. By the way, we changed the law in California.

37:12That was probably done illegally. I don't even want to know. And if you want to come after me, come after me. She needed to do it. She was in so much pain suffering. Now it's legal to do that. But it wasn't at the time. When she did it. So that was a moment. And that was, I just became mayor. It was back to just making stupid mistakes. Man, you're brand new mayor. You're overwhelmed. You're trying to figure yourself out. You lose your mom. No excuse. Was it a marriage that was going south? It was, you know, what did she say to you when she, I had no idea that you sat there. So as she was administered, the drugs that took her life.

37:56What were those conversations? What do you say to someone in such a situation where it's the last conversations you're having? It was, you know, you say the perfunctory things, you know, just not much. You meant to me. I much I love you. I've been thinking of it. And she, she, all she cared about is just don't forget me. She said that. That was the last word. She said, God is my witness. Don't forget me. And, uh, and one of the things I'm most proud of, my sister, we started through our plump jack. We started a foundation. Um, so every year we raised money to cancer research in my mom's name. And, uh, and we've never forgotten her.

38:39And, uh, but she was someone that could easily been forgotten. And, um, she's just, you know, sacrificed everything for two kids. She, you know, she loved us. Her character experience, no money, nothing. I mean, she was just, she struggled her own life and, uh, just gave it all to us. And, uh, so, you know, those are, and we all have people in our lives like that. What a gift. And, uh, you know, I was blessed. Whether or not you were, it's unsaid. Sometimes once people have moved on and you mature as an adult and a mind, you see things differently. I mentioned the earlier being perhaps way too Canada.

39:16I imagine after this is over, my folks, what the hell are you? Who cares? Life's too short. Um, but when I said, you know, when she talked about being average, I didn't confront her on that. That just, that was for me, perhaps more than her. It wasn't about me. This moment, it was about just, you know, it was so important for her to walk through all these memories. And, again, that's what it's about, man, memories. Moments. It's about nothing else. When you're later, you win the race to become governor of San Francisco. Do you think about, huh? Do you think, do you wish she could have seen? Yeah.

39:57I wish she could see my four kids. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. I got sworn in as governor of California. And my wife's there and we got at three year olds. What is pacifier? And he's got his blanket. And he in the middle of my speech. Runs up. I'm giving the speech stressed out. Again, I don't read speeches. It was so as a read. I had to read. So I'm like, I can't look because I'm going to lose my sight on the, on the teleprompter. And my son runs up. My wife was nervous to run up on stage because it was like, this is a big damn deal. And he comes right up, grabs me. And everyone kind of like is moving around the audience.

40:39I'm like, what do I do? And I like just instinctually lifted him. And he put his head right on the side. And start to fall asleep. And I read the speech with my son. No one remembers a damn word I said. I don't remember word. Everyone remembers what it felt like. And all I thought about that moment, if my mom was around to see that, it wasn't the governor. It was, it was the parent. And, uh, yeah, sorry, man, it's, uh, I'm becoming, give me, but that, that's, uh, I wish, I wish she was around for them. Boy, because it's, uh, well, I wish I could thank her for being an extraordinary parent. I never did.

41:25I told you I took her for granted. I never knew how hard it was until I'm on kids. I think she'd be so proud of, of, of, of our, you know, nine -year -old Dutch, 15 -year -old Montana. I think she'd be proud of me in that respect. I think she will maybe be happy. She wanted me to be a good husband. I got this incredible rock star wife, Jennifer. I got these four unbelievable kids, man. Just film a joy. I struggle to be a better parent, husband, politics, strut, you know, but that's all she wanted for me. When you're in the public eye, um, as I guess I kind of am now, because people watch me a lot.

42:07I'm not talking about that. It's, there's always this balance between what people see, which is a very two -dimensional thing, which is what people see of me. And then there's the, the, the imperfect messy home life, which I contend with every single day, like even on the way here this morning. I'm like, I'm going to be late for Gazon, the Gavin Newsom, because my girlfriend's having like period cramps. And I'm like, I don't want to leave my girlfriend, but I need to go. I'm going to be late and I'm like, trying to, you know, and then we have the alarms going off in the house. And then they're all the lights flicking because you just moved in, as you know.

42:36And then the, just craziness. And then you look at my phone and there's business problems. And then there's my family problems are going on. And then I come here. And I interview you. I'm sorry. I feel like I'm in your way. No, no, no, no, no. Obviously it's a great, it's not true, but it's not true, but it's not true, but it's, you know, but it's just, it's, I say that because there is a behind the scenes. And the behind the scenes is not as perfect as the exterior. No, no, no, no, no. You're alluding to the season of your life being filled with imperfection. Yeah. Tell me about the human imperfection that was, was taking place behind the scenes as you were excelling professionally.

43:10I think there was a magazine, the economist did a headline, said, young man in a hurry. He wants to be governor seriously. And it wasn't question mark. It was more, there we are. It was more like, like he's seriously actually thinks he could be governor. It was kind of a snarky headline in a piece. But the headline struck me, young man in a hurry. That's who I was. It was the entrepreneur. I'm sort of trying to, you know, just trying to make things happen, trying new things, seeing what works. Having a little bit more success than failure, you know, learning from mistakes, moving on, you know, move pretty quickly, relatively young age.

43:52I mean, I was, I think one of the youngest mayors in San Francisco history, you know, in my 30s. And, and, you know, I'm losing my mom and relationship. My, my first wife who was, it was ended extraordinarily well. She's, you know, I, nothing negative to say, except her, but it ended. That was embarrassing, you know, it's, you're in, it's in the public. Everything's in the public. I'm growing up in the public. I'm growing up with this just bright lights. How did you fuck up? Yeah, I just, I, I just, I got, I didn't, I wasn't situationally where I wasn't emotionally mature. In terms of, I remember a good friend of mine, me, Vsilver, who's just a rock star.

44:30Got my, just, just got my act. She, she is the one who got me to get my act together. She goes, I said, she goes, you're the mayor in San Francisco. I said, yeah, I know. She goes, we'll then start acting like it. I said, what are you talking about? I said, I said, when I go in the, I don't need to be in the front. She has, you need to be, though, I said, I don't need to, I don't like being in the front. I don't like, I don't need to be right. She says, no fucking mayor. And you'll be in the front row. And you'll have people watch you in the front row, because that's what they want from their mayor.

45:00And I'm like, I remember saying this. I'm like, what? I just say, he's like, no, I'm good. She says, it's not about you. I said, well, no, I don't need that. I don't need to, I like the job. I don't, that's, that's not far the dial. It's the pad that's like the press conference side. I'd like, I don't, and it was such a, she literally, it had such a, I remember that, I remember sitting there with dinner with her at Delancey Street when she said that to me. And it sort of hit me in the core. There was, there was a lack of maturity that I was just the entrepreneur that happened to be mayor. And I, this is ironic, based on our conversation, needed to play the role a little bit more than I was.

45:41And I needed to mature. And I needed to get my act together. And I, you know, and that, I went through a process. There was a couple of years there, a year where, you know, a lot of things happened all at once. And I was able to get through it, get reelected. What were those things that happened all at once? Well, I mean, divorce, you know, your mom, divorce dealing with a new job, dealing with high profile decisions that became very national. All of a sudden, I'm, you know, punching above my weight as a young elected official in ways that I, not many people didn't necessarily imagine, the marriage quality issues, being one of them, other things that I was involved in, to your point about drinking a little too much.

46:22And after the divorce, making some stupid mistakes that I owned up to and regret. And having to work through all that, I mean, they're, you know, it's around this time, you know. And, you know, what I could tell this kid, what would you tell him? Get your shit together. You referring to an extra marital affair, which you owned up to? Yeah, I wasn't married, but she was. And it's funny. I've got a little memoir that I'm putting out, ironically called Young Man and a Horry. That's your. I love the title. Relate as well. That I'm very, you know, I reflect on that and I've deeper and very soft critical way.

47:01And I hope very honest way. And I hope people can appreciate that. I think people will, because I think every normal human being understands that they too are imperfect. And especially when life takes hold, and you're growing and you're lining, we all make mistakes. I've made mistakes. I expect to make a lot more. Yeah. But I think it's in the admittance of those mistakes and acknowledging them. That that's where we, that's where we find out who we actually are. Yeah. You know, and humiliated, humiliated. I had no knowledge of any of this stuff. But so when you say humiliated, I just... I just humiliated my dad.

47:34He said something. I'll tell you, it carried forward with me. He told me at the time he was so disappointed in me. And he said, you go home with the one and brought you to the dance. Fuck. And that was the impact I had on one of my friends. That I, you know, because of that very... And I don't know. It's not a way. It's just like the shortest, it wasn't even a relationship. It was like just some stupid stuff. And I've just tried to, you know, and the fact that we're friends today is like really important. I mean, like one of the most important things, like to sort of reconcile. And that's been really profoundly important as part of the journey.

48:12But, you know, I let him down. I embarrassed my dad. I embarrassed myself. I wasn't myself. And, um, I had to get my shit together. And, um, and did. I just, a drop of the dime, I mean, back to just Mimi Silver, just a rock star. And she told me, you know, I remember, she said, you're coming over to see me tonight. And we're going to fix this. I've built companies from scratch and backed many more. And there's a blind spot that I keep seeing in early stage founders. They spend very little time thinking about HR. And it's not because they're reckless or they don't care. It's because they're obsessed with building their companies.

48:49And I can't fault them for that. At that stage, you're thinking about the product. How to attract new customers, how to grow your team, really how to survive. And HR slips down the list because it doesn't feel urgent. But sooner or later, it is. And when things get messy, tools like our sponsor today, just works, go from being a nice to have to being a necessity. Something goes sideways. And you find yourself having conversations you did not see coming. This is when you learn that HR really is the infrastructure of your company. And without it, things wobble. And just work stops you learning this the hard way.

49:18It takes care of the stuff that would otherwise drain your energy and your time, automating payroll, health insurance benefits. And it gives your team human support at any hour. It grows with your small business from start up through to growth. Even when you start hiring team members abroad. So if you want HR support, that's there through the exciting times. And the challenging times head to justworks .com now. That's justworks .com. At that stage, you were a very young man. I mean, you still look like a young man now. God bless you, brother. But a young man are in particular, have a particular set of struggles in the modern world.

49:53And you view certain words, that's what a parlay into that you've used the words purpose and meaning. And if we look at some of the stats around how young men are doing in the country, it's not great. And even young boys are doing terribly across the world for a variety of reasons. And when we think about the political climate and what's happened in this last election cycle and how young men are voting increasingly for a certain set of ideas, what do you think is going on with young men? And what is the solution or answer that will lead them to a better outcome? I'm really proud of my wife, who's been a real leader.

50:27She's done a, have doesn't documentary. She did one that was particularly, while received, called a misrepresentation about the miss and this information around women and girls. She followed up a two years later in 2015 with a documentary called The Mask You Live In, about masculinity. In 2015, she was highlighting all the things, the trend lines a decade ago that are headlines today as it relates to the crisis of boys and men. And she was noting the suicide rate. She was talking about, you know, deaths of despair. She was talking about educational attainment. She was talking about all these issues that were at next level crisis.

51:07And it was so ahead of her time in so many respects. And she's come back to me on that over and over again, particularly with our two boys and their maturation versus my two girls in the relationship we have to our deeper understanding of how men and girls and women and boys are different. And so this is code red in this country around the world increasingly. And if it was happening to any minority group, particularly in my party, the Democratic party, we'd be all over it. Instead, we've been timid about it because men have this sort of hierarchical benefits in society to go back hundreds and hundreds of years of men are really struggling really.

51:45You know, men still dominate in all these key positions of power and influence. But when you see all what's happening underneath, it is a crisis. And as a consequence, the Republican party, Donald Trump in particular and I think some respects what's happening in this sort of manosphere. And I don't mean that pejoratively, but you know, there's been not an exploitation. At least there's a recognition and a relationship to it that has attracted a lot of young men that are seeking meaning, purpose and mission. And as a consequence, it's also been weaponized, particularly by one party. In a way that I don't think is ultimately beneficial or positive, our party needs to own up to that and we need to address these realities.

52:27Richard Reeves is doing amazing work on it. Scott Gallo is doing amazing work on it. So many folks in this space, you know, cats have been doing a decade ago talking about it. But Democratic party, my party, needs to own up in the space. And just so, I'm not, you know, accused of preaching and not practicing. I've worked for the last six months on an executive order that we're about to release in this space that goes to issues around education. Can't be what you can't see in a lot of these kindergarten elementary teachers, most more women is so about recruiting more men to become teachers, focusing on caregiving, focusing more broadly on very intentional interventions to begin to address this crisis.

53:10The Democratic party, I think it's fair to say, most certainly played their hand wrong in this regard. And the word played, as obviously again, comes loaded. But very much, I think, I think, so some, I think people could fairly say to some degree, tan against or misunderstood men is probably a better way of saying it. Misunderstood the plight of men and boys. And the Republican party, I think, the message that they offered, although there's shades of, you know, behavior or narrative that is not productive, at least spoke directly to men. 100%. We didn't. What do you think the Democratic party got wrong as it relates to appealing to young men?

54:00What's the narrative that the Democratic party projected but shouldn't have? I think there was just a lack of empathy. Yeah. Care, any compassion to what was going on, this, this, in recognition, even deeper understanding. I think it's still something I still have conversations with folks. And people are very uncomfortable in my party talking about this, particularly members of my party in leadership positions, particularly women that just feel like, come on, we just went through me too. We're struggling with gender equality, inequality. We still don't have equal representations in all these CEO positions.

54:39And obviously we're struggling in legislatures. We continue to have this glass ceiling. We can't break and what more proof do you need than Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton? We don't even get paid for the same amount as men. And what the hell are you talking about the unique plight and challenges a man? And then you start saying, well, there's going to be two to one graduates coming from our UC system here in California in the next six years. They're like, that's not true. And then they see the deaths, women. And they go, oh, I didn't realize that. Or two to one women graduating. Yeah, I mean, we're on that track.

55:08I mean, we're moving down that path. You see the suicide rates are just off the chart. You see the deaths of despair, meaning overdoses, off the charts. And you see all of these indexes of unhappiness and loneliness and isolation. You see, I mean, Scott, it's been just the best. I mean, talking about what this means in terms of just the inability for boys to ever become men, to be caregivers, to be those warriors, to have, you know, to be those role models, to even have to have the masculine traits of just being able to be engaged in a real relationship as opposed to attached to some notion of relationship online porn or something.

55:46And so it's a comprehensive strategy that needs to be engaged. And for me, politically, it's, as I said, it's code red, not just the substance, the morality of it, but also the politics attached to it because the other party is weaponized in its multicultural, its multi -ethnic. It's not just, it's not just white male grievance that's been expressed in this space. If and when you become president in 2028 or another year, how is the attitude towards men going to shift? What are the practical ways that you get there towards, you know? Well, I don't think you wait for that moment. I think we have to shape that moment.

56:25I think we have to take responsibility. We have to take account. We have to have a sober, first of all, we have to have a deeper sober reflection of why the hell Democratic Party is at 27 % and polls just a few months ago. I mean, it's a toxic party in terms of its brand. Why? Exactly. We need to understand that. I can give you 25 theories. Can you give me a super, because I'm not a politician, so I don't understand a lot of political talk. But like that is staggering. Yes. And why did it happen? Yes. Thank you. No, that's the question. Why did that happen? It's one of the reasons I started my own podcast.

56:57It was part of that exploration. Again, back to humility and grace, towards all use over and over and over and over and over again, seek first to understand before you're understood. I listened to all the punitive treat hours after the election results. Yeah. And everyone was an expert. I'm like, that's amazing. You're an expert. It was Israel for sure. No, it was inflation for sure. No, it was interest rates for sure. No, it was in compensate for sure. No, it was it was woke for sure. It was no trans for sure. Everyone was for sure. They knew exactly what it was. I'm like, this is amazing. Everyone just knows what's going on.

57:30Meanwhile, I'm like 20 pages in, writing this down, say, oh, it's about loss. Oh, no, it's about the man. No, it's about pie. It was about Joe Rogan. We didn't go into, oh, for sure. I was about, she didn't, you know, she didn't say this or she was with a view for sure. She could have separated from Biden. No, it was a, it was a guy. And then I'm like, oh, wait a second. I need to really understand this more fully. Well, you know, and so that became my own journey back to the entrepreneur. They're trying to iterate and deciding to get some folks that I immediately disagree on with on a new podcast, Charlie Kirk.

58:04Because, you know, for sure, he was successful in convincing a lot of young men to turn out in record numbers for Trump. I wanted to learn about that back to notion of success leaves, clues. I want to pick his brain. What are you doing right, man? Show some humility and grace as it relates to not trying to be argumentative in the interview. Just, I'm trying to pick, I want to know why you're so successful. That offended a lot of people. I don't think so. Oh, he's got a plan. He's executing a plan. He's got a strategy. He's got a date that he's identified with a goal attached to it. He's got a dream with a deadline.

58:40He's there in places people don't expect him to be. He's meeting with folks without any filter. He's willing to confront people he disagrees with and agrees with. He's willing to be out there on the field. He's organized, a construct, and he's been very deliberative, a building in a sense of community. And this notion of community, we all want to be connected to something bigger than ourselves. It's all a big part of this as well, part of the MAGA movement. And particularly with people feeling disconnected, you're naturally going to want to find your way back to something bigger than themselves like through a more as you, because you're a sense of purpose in meaning as well.

59:16And when people are lost, they do go in search of someone who resonates with them and someone who speaks directly to their plight. And my observation, someone that's not an American, when I think about someone like Charlie Kirk versus Kamala Harris, it's the absolute opposite approach. Yeah. Kamala Harris, lots of people say she avoided going on Rogan. She wanted him to fly to. She wanted Rogan to fly to her. She was going to give him a tiny short time window. It was probably going to be a bit sanitized in all respects. Then Charlie Kirk sits on campuses across the US and has students come up and ask him any question.

59:49And his response is he shows you his response to his credit and he is doesn't care about sanitization or being politically correct. Correct. And he puts it on YouTube for hours and hours and hours and hours. And I think in a glass box world where we get to see inside now because of technology, the black box approach where your PR team paints, paints tries to paint an image on the outside is over. And we start in the selection cycle. And you're doing it, you're leading the, I have to give you credit, you are leading the charge there because I can't think of another key political figure globally who has started a podcast where you literally invite the other side on.

1:00:27So you're doing, I think you're playing the glass box approach. I love the way you describe that. And I, everything you said resonated with me. Had Steve Bannon on. Yeah. Which is just, you know, itself was interesting. Look, these folks exist in process and you can deny it. My party can deny it. It's own peril back to your point about what the hell's happened to my party. And so trying to understand that, trying to unpack that. But you know, it's interesting just, I think, you know, Kamala is an old friend of mine. I don't want to get into Kamala. And I say old friend and people roll their eyes and politics.

1:01:04People say, you know, old friend, that means they're at front of me. It's not, but we, we go back before we were both in politics. We both share that Willie Brown, the former mayor in common in terms of a relationship that we both had. And as a consequence of the relationship we had with him, we were able to get to know one another as sort of this cohort. And, and I, I think a lot about, you know, what we've just gone through, I wish I'd love to see Kamala. On your show. I'd love to see your. Yeah. Picture a mom and dad. And I know her as well are better than most. Yeah. But I would love to see that side of her.

1:01:38I would. So this notion of, what do you say, glass box? Glass box, box, box.

1:01:46Hey, I'm on here for a reason. Yeah. I just, you know, it's like I'm out of any excuse. Look, you are here. And let it, let it all out there. And I think people, I, I, I, I think we claim we, we're long for authenticity. I still mostly believe that. Sometimes I question that because people want you to be your authentic self, but they're like, well, don't swear as much or, be your authentic self. But don't be so emotional or be your authentic self. But there's a, but, but I think the end of the day, I think we're, we've crossed that. I think we're on the other side. People just want more of you.

1:02:20Whoever they'll, you will. Regardless of what it is. Because even the crazy thing I, I observe about Trump is even the empathic things he says that would once upon a time, have revolted some people and would have had adverse reactions. The fact that he's willing to say them creates the impression in my mind that I know who he is. Yeah. And you don't have to like someone. But if you trust that you know who they are, then you feel, I think safer in predicting what they'll do. Totally. Now, if I don't see Kamala sat on Joe Rogan or someone like this getting to know her unfiltered, you know, your team didn't tell me that your team didn't give me any parameters.

1:02:58They didn't say, you can't ask him about this. Don't talk about this. There was no parameters. At least people know you are. Yeah. And I think most people don't. They see me as sort of in a slick guy that you know, was like, they think I grew up with a trust fund. Everything was handed to them. People don't know my entrepreneurial background. I don't think they, they, they, they, believe what they, they may have seen on Fox News out here. Or so, you know, one American News and the weaponization of that. And so, you know, I just, it's critical. I think for our party generally, I think for both parties now, just, you've just got to get out of that bubble.

1:03:31I give Trump to your point credit, not respect in every way. You shape form, criticize for many things. You can't criticize them for accessibility for at least appearing to be authentic. In terms of his approach, his willingness to confront and engage. And I, I think that's very refreshing. Well, how do you think America is doing? I think we're struggling. Our identity. I think we're, you know, Trump has made it, made us feel free to shove again. And it's not our better selves. You know, the sort of John Meacham language, you know, the soul of America is, is, is, is struggling. And I really worry about our institutions.

1:04:07I worry about our democracy. I worry about neighbors turning on neighbors. People forgetting the universal truth that we all want to be loved. We all need to be loved. I talked about everybody needing to be connected. We also need to be respected. And I think people are talking down to each other, talking past each other. It's again, why I want platform people I disagree with. And new gingrich on former speaker, gingrich who led my recall effort against me. You know, I just, I'm trying to just find some balance in that respect. Because, you know, there are good people that have immediately disagree with us.

1:04:38I don't know that it benefits any of us to, to demean or belittle folks. That's my thing with Trump. He attacks vulnerable communities. My mom hurt what, her real, early indelible inspiration for me in terms of one of those two, three jobs she had. It wasn't just working as a waitress and doing the bookkeeping. But she worked for A to adoption of special kids with the default family that are kids with intellectual and physical disabilities. And I remember spending time with these kids. And I hate bullies. I mean, forgive the word hate. I know I just, I dislike I hate bullies. I don't like people demeaning other people.

1:05:16I don't like people scapegoating, scapegoating vulnerable communities. My why is standing up for ideals and striking out against injustice. It defines 9 out of 10 things for me. Personal, professional, standing up for ideal, striking out against injustice. And it's just to me, unjust to see people demeaned and belittled. And to use, to see vulnerable communities used as ponds, to talk about, you know, alligator, whatever, and Florida. Talk about immigrants and demeaning and ways. And they have to zig and zag if they want to avoid getting killed by an alligator or something or mocking people with disabilities.

1:05:55That's where I get, that's where I stand firm. And right now, my biggest fear when you asked about where country is, I feel like Trump has opened that over 10 window in a way that I very concerned about our ability to get back to find our better humanity. Who does Trump care about? himself, period full stop. It's not complicated. He doesn't, he doesn't care if he's the healer, the hero, as long as he's the star. It's, I mean, it's, and that's just anyone that's spent time with them. I spent time with as much or more than any Democrat, certainly any Democrat governor in the country, period full stop.

1:06:30And did it through COVID, my first term and certainly even in the second term. And what surprised you? Nothing. The surprise me now is that he's a very different guy than he was in the first term. He's, there's no limits now. It's, there's a megalomaniac there. Megalomaniac. He feels no limits now. And you feel that in every way. He can say and do whatever the hell he wants. And there's no oversight. There's no advice and consent. There's no co -equal branch of government. Speaker of our House of Representatives completely abdicated that. The question is, do the courts hold up? Or are we the people?

1:07:06And I'll tell you that we're celebrating our 250th anniversary of the founding fathers, the best of the Roman Republic, Greek democracy. And, you know, this notion of system of checks and balances, popular sovereignty. And I think it's on life support now. And I don't say that lightly. I say that very thoughtfully. And I say that as a guy that's watched the President of the United States, not send military in his first term. Or he is the first six months anywhere in the world except to an American city where his 5 ,000 military in the streets of Los Angeles are war within. So I say this very soberly and mindful of the moment we are in American history.

1:07:47Do you think he wants to see you fail? I think he wants to take me out and down at the same time. I think he enjoys the sparring with me. I think he, I think he thrives on it. I know he does. Because he calls you Gavin News Gun. Yes. But then meets with you privately. Yeah. And what are those meetings like? Unbelievably cordial. I'm believe it drives people crazy when I say this. But I'd be lying if I didn't say it. Every time I have a conversation, including the night before he quote unquote, federalize the National Guard. We don't unbelievably good conversation. And we were going back and forth.

1:08:19He said, use this cell phone. Keep calling me on this cell phone directly. You need anything. Call me. You need anything. Call me, which is an amazing final statement. As I hung up, only to read eight hours later, that at New Scum, I read him the riot act, which he never did completely made. 100 % made it up. And then federalizes the guard. It's a, it's a game to show. It's a dangerous game. And it's a very exhausting show. And it's becoming derivative. And more dangerous. Isn't this just how politics goes in America? Shouldn't know. It shouldn't. Like, I used to have my beef with George W. Bush, George H.

1:08:57W. Bush. We'd have our beef on the other side. Republicans certainly with Clinton or Obama or even Biden, long for those days. University, I go in the office of Ronald Reagan's old office, Governor Ronald Reagan. That's my old office. And as Governor of California, I mean, his last speech in the Oval Office, his last speech was about the life force of new Americans. Lady Liberty's torch are better angels. I mean, what happened to that Republican party? And this is different. This is darkness. Really? Darkness. Because I hear this every election cycle. No, this is this is we're only six months in.

1:09:36The vandalization that he's done to this democracy and institutions. I mean, eliminating oversight. I'm not just talking about a co -equal branch of government. What does that mean for the average person that doesn't know? It means there's no he's eliminated the inspector general's auditing capacity. He's going after political opponents, removing them from key positions of power and influence and putting in acolytes, putting out people that just do his bidding. He's pushing the boundaries on the rule of law. He's threatening to recall not just people he disagrees with. He wanted my arrest. Remember, the president of the United States said, Newsom should be arrested.

1:10:14They said, and what grounds? He got elected. Said he doesn't like the fact that his political economy got elected. It means he's not, he doesn't say that lightly. And you know, once a mind is stretched, it never goes back to its original form. So every time he does this, he's sort of testing these boundaries. And this is what makes me more concerned. I'll give you a proof point. God is my witness. We're sitting here. When we do this today on this podcast, we just, I just read this morning that Donald Trump was on the phone with the Texas legislature. And they're going through a redistricting thing to basically get five more seats for the midterms.

1:10:51Because they're likely to lose the midterms. And Trump is like lose power. Unless they can change the districts and rig the game. So he stays in power. Do you think he's going to try and stay in power? When beyond his town, close to Donald Trump, when people close to Donald Trump's and the governor of California, a hat that says Trump 2028, they're not being around. They sent you a hat saying Trump 2028. 2028. They're not screwing around. I sat in the Oval Office for 90 minutes with Donald Trump. First Democratic governor to do that. And he was looked, and he looked, I said, hey, he was behind you.

1:11:31I said, I looked around the pictures and like FDR. And I literally turn him like, oh, seriously, he goes, yeah. Because what do you think? Three terms, four terms. I said, oh, come on. And then he just, he starts laughing. Because he's lighting, he's having fun. But again, he's throwing things out. He's, yes, he's iterating. Do you think he would stay for a third, fourth year? I mean, he, I think still he's the guy that tried to wreck this country, tried to light our democracy on fire. He said it was, it was a day of love January 6 so much so that he, literally, as you know, partened everybody that participated in that melee.

1:12:06I mean, that happened. That is grounds in and of itself to question whether or not I'm overstating anything. That was first week in office. It's, I mean, this is shock and awe. We have people in masks going to car washes without identifying. And people are disappearing in the streets of America today. Thousands of people disappearing on the streets of America today, based on what you look like, your skin color, and the streets of America today that's happening that is not normal. And every day he's able to shape shift and distract us to move some place else. I've got a big announcement, huge announcement on Putin.

1:12:48I'll do major sanctions in 50 days, really. I mean, this ability to distract it's serious. What lies underneath is serious. And I don't think I'm exaggerating it. And I'm very, very cautious when it comes to this kind of language because you're right. When you tend to say, you know, you know, sort of, you know, crying wolf here. I don't think we're overstating the seriousness. That we have to push back the seriousness of purpose to which this moment needs to be met. That is really. This is not just another, you know, president comes in, they do a bunch of changes, a bunch of executive orders, and then they leave in three and a half years.

1:13:30Try to stay in the office. He called the elections chief and Georgia and asked, I just need a few thousand votes. He wasn't working around. He was not joking about that. He was dead serious about that. And had they found that he would have rigged his own election. You see what more evidence do you need? He's quite literally. They're so concerned about taking over the House. Now Democrats want to do it. They have to re rig the game. And you think if they don't take back the House of Representatives, they won't move from some form of voter suppression, the likes of which we've never seen in this country.

1:14:07Threats of martial law. What do you think this whole experiment with five thousand military? Weeks and weeks and weeks doing nothing, by the way. They're sitting in the armory. They're doing nothing. They're there for showbodies pushing the boundaries of what they're capable of doing, testing the courts and the Constitution. That's for a larger purpose. And I'm not trying to be, you know, I'm not trying to be, it may not be intentional purpose yet, but they'll place an opportunity to utilize the lessons learned here today to extend their reach and power tomorrow. And I very much, yes, I worry about our democracy in three and a half years.

1:14:49And I worry about that election if they maintain their power in the House of Representatives. I'm that deeply concerned, dead serious. On the balance of probability, do you think it's likely Trump will stay trying to stay in office in 2028? And the balance probability? No. No, okay. But I can see a scenario, but not on the balance probability. And that's on the basis of one thing, time of life. Okay. If he was 69, not 79. Look, he, this is the great grift. He did what he never did in the first term. He played in the margins. He was able to take advantage of his brand and his businesses and make a few bucks here and there, but not the money he's making now.

1:15:29I mean, the crypto, everything he's doing, I mean, I mean, the kids now selling cell phones, the whole thing, monetizing everything, coming out with new brands and new plan. I mean, he, he finally is doing what he didn't do the first term is now is, he's, President of the States, but now he's going to make a fortune. So when he's no longer president, he'll have a $400 million plan that has a billion dollars of upgrades on it. They'll be donated to the foundation that he can use for the rest of his life. Thank you to the Qataris. He will have billions and billions of dollars. So make the vast majority of his wealth in just a few years as President of the United States.

1:16:02He will set himself up in that respect. He'll have hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of excess campaign cash that you'll be able to use for whatever luxury lifestyle he ever needs. And I imagine that may satisfy him as long as he gets his person in to replace him so they can continue that grief going forward. The American people elected him. They said, that's our guy. That's why my party needs to own up to that. And this is existential. We need to do better and we need to. I'm, that's correct. Are you faithful, hopeful that the Democratic party are going to wake up in time to feel the serious campaign that can compete with that very sort of dominant prevailing narrative?

1:16:44I think it starts yesterday. It's not about the guy or guy on the white horse to come save the day. It's not about 2028. It's about the midterms, which we just talked about. It's also about what happens we now in the midterms. It's about the rule of law. It's about courts. It's about governors. It's about states. It's about mayors. It's about we the people, citizens. I mean, it looked, I was inspired in the no Kings Day. I mean, you guys know a little bit about Kings. I mean, the no Kings Day, five million people showed up on Trump's birthday. That gave me hope. Which was a sort of a protest against.

1:17:14Against. I guess. Yeah, against. Yeah, I was lucky. You know, it was just as brand I said in a democracy, the most important office is not office of president, governor mayor, office of citizen. You're an entrepreneur. How do you think your party have done with appealing to entrepreneurs? Probably. You presided San Francisco, which is globally, we think of as the center point of innovation and technology. Terrible. But I think the perception is that the Democratic party don't like entrepreneurs. And the Republicans, it's the home of entrepreneurs. In fact, all of my friends that are entrepreneurs, if they were being honest in private, they would say that they lean towards the Republican party as a relaxed entrepreneurship.

1:17:48It's amazing. Maybe you know what's interesting. Since 1989, the end of the Cold War. Yeah. In the United States of America, there's been 52 million jobs created. There have been three Republican administrations, three Democratic administrations. So it's fair to say how do we do Republican administrations, Democratic administrations? Since 1989, the Cold War, the end of last year, 52 million jobs. And you'd say, well, it's maybe 50, 50, maybe Republicans on the basis of your entrepreneur friends, Republicans probably did 60 % of those jobs were created. Well, 50 of the 52 million were created under Democratic administrations.

1:18:211 .9 million jobs created during Republican administrations. You look at the last three Republican presidents. They have one thing in common recessions. During the last administration under Joe Biden created 16 .6 million jobs. And I know a lot of those were COVID jobs, but he blew past that after 18 months. He created eight times more jobs in the last three Republican administrations combined. But this economy does better job creation. Thrives during Democratic administrations. But perception is exactly what you said. Yes. So you gave me the logic. I know. But the brain isn't orientated towards logic.

1:18:58We're the narrative. Where's the economy in this country? Why are we the fourth largest economy in the world? We have four of the top seven market cap companies in the world. Nvidia just came with $4 trillion market cap. We dominate 32 of the top 50 AI companies right here in California. We dominate in every key industry. We're the biggest manufacturing state. We dominate naming industry. California dominates. So why entrepreneur? So the state. Why entrepreneur is in your state is. 71 % of the GDP in this country are blue metro counties. Elon left you into Texas. He left in came right back. Where's Groc?

1:19:29Where's where's this R &D headquarters, World Headquarters? Where are the vast majority of his jobs or SpaceX? And Tessley did that because he wanted to make a buck. So he can avoid capital gains and avoid income tax as he caches out on 20 years of largeest by the taxpayers in California. They created a regulatory environment that created the industry because of our vehicle emissions standards and subsidized that industry with billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money to make Elon rich. And then he turned his back so he didn't have to pay capital gains. Do you know what I think? Hey, by the way, he's back.

1:20:04All is AI. Where's all is AI? It's in California. Where all of his research and development folks all in California. Everything you said might be true. And I don't know the details of it. So I can't comment on that. But again, perception. I know. Come back to perception. I agree. When I, in my, you know, over in the UK, when I watch the Democratic Party attacking these really successful individuals, and Biden attacking Elon Musk, look, look, I'm not going to go into the details of Elon Musk in his ineffections. You need that. You make it easy to attack both parties. But let's try and let's just try and hit this point, which is the Democratic Party tend to be the ones who are criticizing the world's most successful people.

1:20:44I agree. And saying that they're this and this. And never pausing to say, actually, they did something good as well. And it's the lack of nuance for me where I go. I can't, I can't trust that these people are just pure evil. I can't trust that they're just pure evil and only bad things, which is all I hear. But on the right side, you might hear the opposite. Where is the nuance here? Like, can you say something positive about Elon Musk? I've been, there's been no bigger champion of Elon Musk for 20 years than I have. I've been his biggest supporter. In fact, I have one of the first Tesla's right off the factory floor.

1:21:14I've been his biggest promoter and supporter for decades and decades. So I've said that over and over and over. It all tends to be negative about these, these entrepreneurs. You know, you can understand from like, left politics around the world does seem to have a certain disdain for successful entrepreneurs. So let's talk about that. It is the worst part of my party. I can't stand it. I do not begrudge other people's success. I'm inspired by it. I admired it. We opened this conversation up all these heroes of mine. Like Richard Branson, the hero of mine. I love his success. I love his audacity.

1:21:46I love his ability to compete. I love his ability to promote great jobs, opportunity, wealth. I think it is a big problem in the Democratic party. And we do not do enough to make this fundamental point. You know, that you cannot be pro job in anti -business period. And we need to say that. And we need to demonstrate that. Look, it drove me crazy. Half my friends were up there. Like maybe not even half, a lot more than half. We're up there with Donald Trump when he got sworn in. And the symbolism of that was he's got the back and they have his back of entrepreneurs and dream makers in this country.

1:22:23And I thought, Jesus, I mean, just that alone. Where the hell was my party? Why are we making a case for all entrepreneurs and business leaders? Do you respect Elon? I've long respect him, but he's changed in the last seven, eight years. He just has. And I say that with so many mutual friends, universally saying that. In fact, I was one of the last to come around. I'm like, no, he's all right. Even after he left, quote unquote, Tesla left, which they never did. They didn't change. They didn't move a job. They just changed the corporate headquarters. He came back a few months later. You can go online and you can see a press conference I had.

1:22:56When he moved his world, R &D headquarters back to California. And I praised Elon and that one that long ago. That was after quote unquote, he left the state of California. But he's different now. Something's changed. And now, of course, that's been exposed across the spectrum. It's not just from a prism of left and right. But I've long admired him. He created this entire market. And he's 100 % right about this big beautiful bill. And he's 100 % right that we're doubling down on stupid. And we're investing in the past as the rest of the world is leaping forward. China is going to clean our clock as it relates to electric vehicles.

1:23:30They're going to clean our clock in terms of the future and dominate it. Because of some of what Donald Trump has just done and rolling back progress that was made over the last decade or so. But particularly as it relates to what just occurred with the IRA and notably with the infrastructure bill that the President of the United States, previous president passed. So I agree with him on a lot of things. But some character issues that I question. I use his name, I guess, because he's now so influential in this country. But he's also like a figurehead of a certain, you know, of entrepreneurship and innovation.

1:23:59So he's, and now he owns X as well. So the platform's so big. And if you are ever to become president, how is your attitude going to be towards entrepreneurs like him? And how is that different to the democratic celebrate a revere their entrepreneurialism? We celebrate them. We celebrate their contributions. Again, we don't, we don't, I mean, I just the idea that our party is branded by begrudging other people's success. It's devastating to, I think, to the aspirations of what it means, so much of what means to be an American. California is the dream. It's attached to this social, social mobility that there's a limitlessness in terms of being and doing anything.

1:24:41And so my job as governor and my job in any position would be to create the conditions where people feel included, feel seen, where they can live their lives back. When I said earlier out loud and we create the conditions, where their success becomes inevitable or irresistible. And I think a lot of what leadership is is climate control, not in the sustainable sense. And it's no longer command and control. What I concern about now is the command and control of crony capitalism coming back into the United States of America because of Donald Trump. You got to kiss the ring. You don't kiss the ring.

1:25:14It's going to be punitive. You want an exemption on the tariffs, just make a call or rather better yet make a contribution. Maybe you make a contribution indirectly by buying some crypto. And that contribution then gets the benefit. Maybe you make a deal overseas on weapons and we'll take care of the golf course. Maybe we'll take care of the new two towers for the family. That's what's happened under Trump in just six months to agree never. It's unimaginable in the United States to see it at this scale in this level. And that's to me not free enterprise. I've just invested millions into this and become a co -owner of the company.

1:25:51It's a company called Keytone IQ. And the story is quite interesting. I started talking about ketosis on this podcast and the fact that I am very low carb, very, very low sugar. And my body produces ketones which have made me incredibly focused, have improved my endurance, have improved my mood, and have made me more capable at doing what I do here. And because I was talking about it on the podcast, a couple of weeks later, these showed up on my desk in my HQ in London, these little shots. And oh my god. The impact this had on my ability to articulate myself, on my focus, on my workouts, on my mood, on stopping me crashing throughout the day, was so profound that I reached out to the founders of the company.

1:26:30And now I'm a co -owner of this business. I highly, highly recommend you look into this. I highly recommend you look at the science behind the product. If you want to try it for yourself, visit ketone .com slash Stephen for 30 % off your subscription order. And you'll also get a free gift with your second shipment. That's ketone .com slash Stephen. And I'm so honored that once again, a company I own can sponsor my podcast. It's the world safer now under Trump than it was under Biden. There's new ones to that. I don't think it's a binary, but safe. I mean, I think in terms of war and the probability of a world war three, are we, I think it's more unpredictable than it's been.

1:27:12I worry about nuclear proliferation. I worry about AI. Biden wasn't doing so well. When I watched that debate and he was struggling over his words and couldn't, couldn't be coherent with sentences, I did. I was his chief surrogate that night. So chief surrogate. Yeah, I mean, I was there representing the campaign. Oh, so you were there for the other thing. I actually think I saw you afterwards doing interviews. I was doing my best to have and go home with a guy who brought you to the dance. And you know, I was proud to support him. But that was it. That was a, that was a difficult night. Did you realize in that, was at that the moment you realized that he wasn't.

1:27:52When he walked out on stage doing well. I was in the back. I'll never forget physically standing up as I was watching and going. And I turned on my staff as it suppens off right when he walked on stage. Felt it was only time I saw that was at a fundraiser here that he had after he had no sleep. And I just, we all just literally assumed it was just jet lag and he had flown back and forth and over a week, back and forth to Europe twice. And he had a late night. And I thought boy, he's just not on. Like, and that was in private, not just his public comments with President Obama that night. There was a lot of talk rhetoric that there was an internal desire to overthrow him around that time because you could see on TV, he was struggling in in the polls and Donald Trump was reveling in it.

1:28:37And then I heard this narrative coming up that, you know, Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic Party were having private conversations and telling him to step down and forcing him out. All cards on the table, 100 % truth. Is there any truth in that? Yeah. No, a lot of that was happening. I mean, a lot of people were, I mean, there was, there was a phone tree that lit up that night. There was a text tree, phone tree, email. Just blew up saying people are in panic, total full, fledged panic. And there was a need and desire to know that he was okay and that this was momentary or discovered there was something else, maybe had a cold, maybe there's some other issue.

1:29:17And it led to those kind of conversations that many have been made public, many private, led to meetings with Democratic governors in the White House with the president, around the table, including me, this president tell us, you know, what's your path? How are you feeling? Some honest, back and forth with a few governors that challenged them a little bit more, that one would have expected with sort of protocol within the party. And yeah, a real desire, obviously, to turn the page and ultimately that manifested with a decision he made and led to obviously our nominee, her, his vice president. He was effectively, effectively pushed out of the party by pressure.

1:30:00Yeah, I mean, because he wanted to continue that was clear. He said that. Yeah, he believed he was the only one that could be Donald Trump. Yeah, having beat him once, he was convinced he could do it again. He believed that his record of the lowest black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment, lowest unemployment for women, the best economy in 60 years as it relates to jobs and GDP growth, inflation that was calling from 9 .1 and was moving in the right direction with the Chipson Science Act, with the infrastructure bill, the IRA, 400 bipartisan bills. He felt lowest uninsured rates. They felt like things directionally were moving despite the inflation scars.

1:30:35And then he can make that case. He felt that he really did feel that way. A lot of the narrative was that you were going to step in potentially a last minute. And that I know in your head, you must have been mulling and thinking about going back and forward about different possibilities and outcomes. Things were moving so quickly and there was such a little time. I saw your name mentioned all the time associated with stepping into a place in. No, I was, but I was also the one that was out there still campaigning for him after everyone. It turns back. You must be in your head at night thinking, I wasn't then.

1:31:06Things could change. You talked about what shaped me, those moments. When I say no daylight, when I say, you know, I got to make up for this pointing this guy and myself, when I'm in, I'm in. And I'll say the coin in the realm in politics is loyalty. Period full stop. Willie Brown taught me that. And Joe Biden, I was going to have his back. So I literally, I'm telling you, look me in the eye. Yeah, because I know it's cynical. Did not think along those lines after he dropped out those minutes later and my cell phone blew up. I confess that there were a number of people that wondered. And I imagine you can, you know, there were there were plenty of people sort of circling go, well, maybe a man will be thinking I once he dropped down, I to be candidate.

1:31:59Yeah, I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this because I've said a public eyes a little angry, I didn't get heads up. You didn't get a heads up. I was giving you like a text two minutes because I was embarrassed. I was sitting with a group of people. I was and I was like, my phone rang. I was like, wow. So I was, I was my first reaction. Honestly, it was like, geez, I'm mad at all this stuff I did for this guy. And then I'm not even a heads up. And first miss call, true story. I didn't even know his unknown number. I didn't even look at it for about six hours. It was calm. She calm. She made the call to me.

1:32:30Saying what? Just a voicemail. Love to talk. So about what? Well, she was running. So it's, uh, you know, and a few hours later, I put out a press release supporting her candidacy. What should the Democratic Party have done with the wisdom of hindsight in that moment? Instead of just pretty Kamala straight in all geniuses and hindsight. I don't know what you could have possibly done with just such a short runway. You had the vice president, you know, in states, you had the apparatus it was built within the party. You had the legal ability for her because it was the Biden Harris campaign to transfer a lot of that.

1:33:02Yeah. You had little time. You would have opened up to a circular firing squad, but it didn't manage the party in hindsight. It didn't work. What could you have done with the benefit of hindsight that might have worked? Yeah, what it could have should have. I don't live in that. I think, but, but I live where we, where we were exploring a moment ago. And that is in reflection more broadly of where the party is, less the individuals. And I think that's our biggest mistake. We're so consumed by the individual. Identity politics. Yeah, but, well, issues related identity politics, probably, but it's not just the person.

1:33:37Oh, okay. It's who we represent. And there's a word we didn't use earlier, but you used it in relationship to Trump. Weakness versus strength. And I'll tell you to me at the core, the end of the day, to me, it's that distinction that perhaps says more things and more ways on more days about where our two parties are. Donald Trump exudes strangely. Strength. I think he's weakness, masquerading a strength. Our party appears weak for many, too many. And I remember Bill Clinton after shalacking. We got crushed in a midterm. And he said, given the choice, Bill Clinton said the American people always support strong and wrong versus weak and right.

1:34:20There's something about that. I think this notion of strength. I think it goes to young boys. I think it goes to Trump and Trumpism. What he sells, what he represents to people. I think in that distinction, maybe is a pathway for our party. And my last question before I get to the book, which is the question left by our last guest is, there's a high probability, which I'm aware of that I'm sat with the future president of the United States. There's a probability, even if it's a 1 % probability, it's an extraordinary opportunity to ask for one. Even if it's a 1 %, but I looked at the odds before I walked out, so I know it's higher.

1:34:58Under you, if I took that men in black little pen thing that erases memory, and I raise my memory of the Democratic Party, and I raise the memory of the Democratic Party for all of my audience watching, and you have a clean slate to redefine that party. And we don't remember or we don't reflect on the past. And that party is coming up in 2028 against the Republican mega -centric party, maybe led by JD Vance. What is that proposition? I'm a young man, but not just for young men, for everybody. What is the proposition you're putting forward? What does it sound like? And I don't want any of the political stuff going on.

1:35:35No, no, no, no. What does it sound like? And you can appreciate, I hope, that I don't have the kind of answer that's worthy of that question, because it's a spectacular question. And it's fundamentally the question that needs to be answered by whoever is running for President of the United States. And it needs to be done so congruently. It can't beat your point, bullshit. It can't be a pole -tested, focused group, a bunch of words and problems to feel it. In so many respects, what we just ended on, I think this notion of the dream, I think this notion of I think there's something about why we're together, that is sort of that the intersection of entrepreneurialism, aspiration, growth, opportunity, inclusion, that begins to answer and flesh out, create an answer that fleshes out.

1:36:32And it's in that space that I'm consumed. I'm consumed by contribution and service, this notion of service, communitarianism, this notion that we're all better off, we're all better off. I think public service should be a requirement, national service. But it's in that space that ultimately I think an answer will emerge. And there's lots of, it's funny because politics, what is more and more I've learned about it, is this battle between rationality and logic and then just emotion and perception I guess. Exactly. So you talked about some of the great things the democratic party have done, but it's crazy how the headlines will be dominated by some issue around quote -unquote woke ideology.

1:37:17100%. And it almost becomes the case that people care, they're more emotionally compelled by this idea that their kids in schools are being taught something that is corrupting their mind versus how the economy is doing or jobs. I know. And there was, it was, and I think we struggled to recognize that. How did you recognize that? They were shape shifting CRT ESG, D .A .I. and even with three letters. I mean, we were on our heels, we were on the receiving end of all us. We're constantly on the defense. We got, I love what President Obama just said. He said, we got to get more aggressive. Get on the offense.

1:37:46I've been saying this for years. What does that mean? Meaning we've got to shape the narrative. Illusion rules, facts don't matter. You've got these propaganda networks, weaponizing, grievance 24 -7. And we're constantly responding to these these these these cultural wars. And let me be specific on that. I think, you know, the governor of Utah said it best never has so much attention been focused on so few as it relates to the issue of trans athletes. He's 100 % right. But there's also trueism. And it's a part of, you know, part of being in business. You're nothing but a mirror of your consistent thoughts.

1:38:20Whatever you focus on, you're going to find more of. And so if 24 -7, that's all that's coming from you. California, this kind of like California crack up. Everyone's leaving the worst place to do everything. You start to believe it. You start to shape your conversation. And then you start finding proof points. So there's an incalmous encampment. Oh, I just read about this crime down at the Walmart. And it's just it's everyone's leaving because what because Elon left everyone. So I think narrative matters to your point. Trump understands that better than anybody. He repeats things over in the, you know, the vernacular of my buddy, Martian Lynch, over and over and over and over and over and over and over over over over again.

1:38:55So I think flooding the zone in that respect, you are a master at it. I mean dealing with Jesus. Seriously, I mean, of all people should hire you, my friend, that understand data and analytics, communication, how to target broader message values, brand strength. And how to sell. You got to sell it. You mean, we've said in there talking about the Chips and Science Act, no one knows what the hell you're even talking about. We didn't sell what we were delivering. I think we have an abundant. Yeah. And it's also look part of the answer to the question you asked earlier. It's also, and you know, as a client on their talk about, but abundance mindset, we've had the scarcity mindset, this sort of zero sum mindset.

1:39:34And as an entrepreneur, you don't have like scarcity mindset. And I think as part of the brand building of our party, it's not just in terms of housing and issues related to what Ezra speaks in terms of a abundance mindset, but it's that growth abundance mindset. And I think that's part of when I talk about the dream, I'm also saying this, by the way, from the prison, the know of the governor can like claim, the American dream and you have the California dream. There's no other state that's attached to a dream. And I think there's something a bucket of in that because that that inspires a journey that we can be on a journey that we can go on together.

1:40:09And so I'm captured by the vernacular of the 60s. And Bobby Kennedy was my political hero, Sars Shriver and Kennedy. Everything about that, solving for ignorance and poverty and disease and this notion of going on a journey together, that was what the moon was all about. And we can see ourselves on that journey. Right now, you know, is the blue versus the red team. This is a war that within in this country. And I think whoever runs the next four years or three years, it's about stitching this back together and going on a journey together. And because as I say all the time, divorce is not an option.

1:40:46There's just two other things that sprung to mind as you're talking is I've always wondered in California, specifically in LA, I told you I moved here, just moved into my place yesterday, in fact. I was in a CVS, I think it was. And I was trying to get some toothpaste. Horrible, right? Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I said to the team, this was like six months ago. I was like, I went to a CVF to get some toothpaste. And I've got to the toothpaste and it's in a cage. And I said to the lady there, I was like, why is the toothpaste in a cage? And she goes, look, and she points down the aisle. And there was a gentleman, a homeless gentleman who was stuffing things in his sock.

1:41:19And I thought, fuck it out. Like, if I look over there, there's these mansions in the hills. And if I'm in the CVS, the toothpaste in a cage because the homeless people are stuffing things into their socks, is that fixable? Yes. And what caused it? Well, now you're dealing with larger systemic issues that go back decades and decades and the has have knots. And that goes to drug addiction. Yeah, and the specific issues around homelessness and that gets to deep mental health behavioral health issues, affordability, housing crisis. But look, is it fixable? Yes, by definition. Why does no one fix it?

1:41:55It's being fixed. And progress is literally being made. We're seeing significant reductions back to back years and crime. We're seeing significant reductions in organized retail theft. We're seeing significant reductions, including just here in LA, they announced 17 and a half percent decline over two years. And the number of people out in the streets and sidewalks and unsheltered homeless that was literally announced yesterday by the mayor. So there is progress in all these cases. So absolutely. You're getting more radical on this point as well. Because I saw the announcement you made and I watched very closely a couple of years ago when you announced that you're going to have to get these incumbents off this stage.

1:42:27I'm done with it. It's exhausting. Clean them up. It's the job of a mayor. My job is mayor, former mayor of San Francisco. Do your job. Clean them up. Get people off the street. There's nothing there's stepping over people on the streets and sidewalks is not compassion. And so we have flooded their zones in terms of support and resources and hats about performance. And I have the great honor of working with Prince William in the UK on a home homelessness initiative. So I know the complexities of it. And some people think of it as just a housing issue. But having spent time with people at risk of homelessness, I know it's a confidence issue.

1:42:57It's a mental health issue. It's a job's issue. It's a pathways into employment issue. It's a very, very complicated issue. So that's actually blown my mind homewards have in terms of. I mean, I said all the time, shelter, self -sleep housing and supportive services, solve homelessness. You've got to deal with the underlying reasons people are out in the streets and sidewalks in the first place. And so it's about this comprehensive integration of care, whole person care as we describe it. We've just gone through the most significant mental reforms in US history. We have flooded the zone with more, more 26 ,000 new units of behavioral housing.

1:43:31We are producing and procuring in the state of California in real time with zoning reforms so we can cite them, workforce development reforms and we're reorganizing the integration around mental health and the silos and people are drug and alcohol addictions and the integration. And this is the source to me of so much of my real passion in terms of my day job and you're going to see real progress in the state. Well, I did do some research beforehand and I can see that there's some really significant actions taken and they are nuanced and complex in their solution. So that's very very encouraging.

1:44:02And it's encouraging to meet someone who understands the complexities of this problem because actually the narrative that will win out in an election cycle is going to be emotional. It's going to be simple. And so I think everybody should look out for emotional and simple answers and exclude them whenever you hear them. The last question before I ask you this one is all the headlines at the moment are about Jeffrey Epstein. And the way that that's been handled really is the thing that I find so fascinating because on the way into the presidential office and into those some those big roles, there were certain promises made about the Epstein files and it would be released.

1:44:35And if you vote for me, then I will release these files and now there's nothing to see. Yeah. What what happened there? Well, they lied to they lied to you then or they lied to you now period. Someone lied about this. They dangled this in order to get votes and they lied to people. They needs to be held to account and look, I you know, I could be cynical about it. I could be very political about it and say it's interesting when Elon, we brought up Elon when Elon must tweet something out saying Trump's on the list. And a few days later, there is no list. You can be cynical about that. It leads to some open, any questions.

1:45:15What would you have done if you were Trump in that situation? So say that you've been elected and the public demanding to see this list. What would you have done? One thing is obvious. I know Pam Bondy, well, the attorney general, we know each other over the years, she doesn't move without Trump. If she's fired, she's the fall person because there's no question she was directed by Trump to say what she said. She would not have period full stop done something independent of the president on the Epstein files. So Trump is the person that's so one has to acknowledge that. So then it begs additional questions.

1:45:54Why was she told not to release the files? Unless a there's no files and they made it up the entire damn time, just like they made up Obama's birth certificate, just like they make up most things most days. My humble business. I think that's very plausible. It could be very simple. It could be simple as that. They started the conspiracy and now they started their cover and they're asking, they're just like, shit, we got caught. We use this, we sort of squeeze this out. We got everything we needed. We're in power. Or it's more insidious than that. And look, there one thing is just not even, it's just simple truth.

1:46:33Epstein and Trump were close. They were, wasn't just a few photographs. They were close. That's a fact. Sorry, Donald. Just a fact. So look, I get why this outrage is folks. I think it's interesting. It's outraged some of the core base. I enjoy the hell out of it. I'm just, I spoke, that was my private voice out loud. As a Democrat. And yeah. And I hope our party ginsens up much more. If you get into office, people are going to say, release the list. I mean, if there's a, they all think it's going to be secret here or something. And I know that leads to speculation about Mason and other speculation.

1:47:17Am I, was he on the foreign intelligence list? And is there real implications to our national security? Why did he make all his money? I mean, I've got enough problems with homelessness and housing in California. We're about Jeffrey Epstein. But hey, they created this mess. Now they got to clean it up. Governor, we have a close on traditionalness podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is, what is it? Have you received a sign from beyond a sigh that's good in the spirit of Epstein and sort of conspiracies?

1:47:55I will. I don't know about that. But I, there's a spiritual aspect to me, meaning I, I'm a person of faith. I grew up in the church, went to Jesuit University, quote, the Bible often, many parts one body. So I feel that connection to something bigger than myself. If for no other reason, then I'm desperate for it. The person who wrote the question, I'll tell you, give you a little bit of a clue, they're referring to a late loved one that passed away. More specific. Yeah, fascinating. I've never, you feel, you feel people's presence when you hear a song, you feel people's presence when you, you know, during season of the year and, you know, I will say, all right, I will say you've got me.

1:48:50And this was uncanny. My father passed away in his house in San Francisco. I came after, in this case, there was no assisted suicide, but I came right after and visited him on right outside the window was a Paragraphocad. Can't make this up. My father was passionate about Paragraphocad. I've never seen a paragraph, I grew up in San Francisco in my life. It was a Paragraphocad right on the balcony, right after his death. My sister and I looked at each other so you can't think that was the side. True story. There's my answer. Thank you. Thank you so much. I am, I'm really encouraged by the example you're setting for so many reasons.

1:49:41And I, the reason, one of the biggest reasons that I'm super encouraged by the example you're setting is because you're doing what I've wished for so long, so many people in your position, your political position would do, which is to speak to the other side, but also to get out there and to have conversations like this in this new medium of podcasting that is unfiltered, unsensored and is long form. And I just, I always longed to see that from the Democratic Party, but they've hidden behind PR and sanitized messaging for so long and you're bucking the trend. I was so happy when you sat down with Charlie Kirk because those are the conversations I want to see.

1:50:17And actually, you being in the same room made me both realise that there's a lot you have in common and also allowed me to compare the fundamental differences in person. But also, it's so wonderful to get to know you as a man and where you come from. Yeah, I appreciate it. Because I, because now I now I understand, I understand your motivations, I understand the decisions that I think you'd make, you know, going forward as president, and it feels like a great honor for you to have given me this time. But also, as I said, if your team not to tell me you can't talk about this, you can't talk about that, and just to let me talk about whatever I want to talk about.

1:50:51So thank you so much. And thank you for having me in your home state now of California. I guess I'm kind of a half semi -resident or something. And yeah, I'm going to be watching with with much curiosity to see how it plays out and you present a new vision for America. I highly recommend everybody goes and checks out your podcast as well. I'm going to link it on the screen down below. This is Gavin Newsom where you do exactly that. You sit with people and have these conversations that are so, unfortunately, rare with people you often disagree with. It's a fantastic show and it was has me absolutely hooked.

1:51:23And your book here as well, I'm going to recommend because it really shaped how I think about your philosophy. It's called Citizenville. How to take the town square digital and reinvent government, which talks about social media in the role it plays. Thank you so much, Gavin. It's been a long time. My honor. Thank you so much. Really grateful. Thank you so much for the time. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place.

1:51:59But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24 % of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you.

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