How I Manipulated The World's Richest Men: “They Lost $100 Million In One Night!” - Molly Bloom (Molly's Game)

27:31I was on the hook of someone didn't pay. I had a full business. I was paying my taxes. You know, there was so much work and sweat equity. And I branded the game in this incredible way. And I, you know, I took notes every single game. Here are the areas that it works. Here doesn't. Let me do some deeper research. And, you know, just really think turning down cash and cars and free rolls from the pros. To get a seat. To protect the integrity of the game. And, you know, like, taking, you know, paying the debts from my own bank account so that make sure people got paid faster. I mean, there was, it wasn't, I wasn't serving drinks anymore.

28:14And so when he said to me, you're making too much money. You have the option of making less. And I'll let you keep the game. Look, by this time I had become a strategic thinker. I had really been able to get out of emotional decision making. But I do believe that there's a time and a place for emotional decision making. And so I knew that turning down that offer, there was a large, the odds where I was going to lose the game. But I knew that accepting that offer meant no autonomy for me, no freedom and no dignity. What was the offer, sorry? I had to would have to cap my salary and make it and have him approve how much I'm making.

29:01Why, what was he bringing to the table where you can just kick him out? Was he bringing a lot of celebrity power? And celebrity power. Yeah, this in this town. So he was, he basically said to you, listen, you're making a lot of money. I'm, I'm bringing a lot to the table because I'm bringing celebrities and contacts and legitimacy to this. So I'll put a cap on your earnings and I get the rest of what you're making. But I'll continue to do my part. Yes. So he kind of wanted to make you his employee. Right. How do you feel about that? I never want to be anyone's employee ever again. But how do you feel about him?

29:32When you said it, you looked a bit pissed off. To be honest. Oh, did I? A little bit. You looked a bit like there was still a little bit of maybe resentment to that moment. And you know, I think that there's just conviction to that moment. Right. Because I think we live in a day and age where a lot of people try to, not in a day and age, it's reality that a lot of people try to misuse power. And I think it's really important to talk about, you know, sort of dignity in the face of that and, and turning the offers down. So you said, no, what happens then? Call me about a week later and with this almost dubious laugh and tone was like, don't you're done?

30:23How could he ensure that you were done? He had colluded with the biggest whale in the game, a whale in a gambling context, some with a lot of money. He's not very good. He's willing to lose a lot of money. And this person had endless funds and he had colluded with him to have the game at his house. And that was where the money was for everyone. And you asked me a question, how do I feel about this person? Here's my answer. This was a really long time ago.

31:00And I've totally forgiven him. So you lose the game. I lose the game. I was devastated. What's going through your mind at that moment? I'm done. I'm never going to be able to make this much money again. I'm never going to be, I'm going to have to go join some, you know, I'm going to have to go work for someone else. I'm not going to be able to be my own boss. I'm not going to live in this fascinating, adventurous, underworld where I get to, you know, pull the strings and move the chess pieces and, and I have to go join the real world where I'm not extraordinary. You know, I'm just telling what's going through my mind.

31:45Now when I say these things, it's like, it is what it is. So you eventually move to New York? Yes. 30 years old at this point? I'm 31 at that point. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I, my parents said, this is a great time for you to go back to school. You've saved all this money. You've learned all this, you know, you've gained all this information. You have this incredible network. And I said to them, you're absolutely right. But I have something that I need to prove to myself, at least, because the plan was never to run poker rooms for the rest of my life. I don't think that's something that's sustainable.

32:23The lifestyle was not conducive for raising a family. Late nights, you know, crazy adrenaline. It was not something that I could imagine myself doing for the rest of my life. I knew I needed to walk away at some point. I knew I needed to parlay it into something that was less underground, less gray. But, you know, I have to tell you, there was something very thrilling about it. But then I got angry. And I had something to prove. And there was just nothing that was going to stop me. What made you angry? Feeling like I had been disposed of so effortlessly. Something that I, you know, something stolen from me that I had curated and built.

33:11And, you know, is it karma before? And there is some truth to that. But I did everything justly. You know, I left money on my own money on the table to curate this incredible experience. I ran the games with ultimate integrity. You know, I wasn't unkind to anybody. I just felt it was really unfair. And so, also, I was embarrassed. You know? So, I decided I was going to build the biggest poker game in the world. Like, five times, ten times bigger than the game in LA. And then I would go away. I decided after doing some research that I would do it in New York City, because it seemed like there are a lot of gamblers on Wall Street.

34:11There were many problems with my plan. First of all, I didn't really know anyone in New York City. It's that sort of like billionaire Wall Street world is not so easy to penetrate. Secondly, it was 2008. So, the economy in Wall Street had just been brought to its knees. In the most profound way, since probably the Depression. And thirdly, there were some pretty scary characters running games in New York who'd been doing it for 20 years. But, you know, it's testament to when you're obsessed with something. When the end, like, you'll do anything unfettered and passionate. And you'll do anything to get there.

35:05Things are possible for better or worse. So, you know, I made moves. I did research, and I interviewed poker players. And I found out who the right people were to talk to. And I found out what was wrong with the current system. What was wrong with the current games and where I could improve on that. I already knew I could bring the branding and the experience, which was meaningful. It truly was meaningful. But what I found is in these big games, in these New York games, a lot of the game runners were kind of running a Ponzi scheme. If they didn't get paid, they wouldn't pay out. They're playing in their own games.

35:44Whether they were winning or losing, would dictate the rake of that night. And the rake is the illegal tax that most of the game runners were taking. And so, it was a matter of treating people fairly. It was a matter of being trustworthy and consistent. And having integrity. And then I, you know, the biggest thing I could do, to instill that trust and to have integrity and to eradicate the fear, was to become the bank. I would now, M .D .B. Inc., would now become the bank. Guarantee the games. Pay if there is, if somebody stiffed, I would pay. What does it stiff me? Meaning they lost money in the game and then didn't pay the debt.

36:29Okay. I don't understand that. Surely to get the chips, they have to pay them up front. No. When you run a weekly game, ultimately you establish a credit relationship with someone. Okay, right. Because otherwise, like these people would have to bring $5 million in cash every week. It's just not reasonable. It's not feasible. So tell me about the peak of your New York games then. Yeah. So when you're at the peak, what does that look like? So I started this big game. It was a... They're all just called Molly's game. Okay. Yeah. So it was a $250 ,000 buy. And then this was the game that someone would ultimately end up losing $100 million in one night.

37:09Say that again. Explain all this to me like I'm a chimpanzee from that documentary you're talking about before you start recording. So when you sit down to play at a poker game, there are a couple numbers that matter. What's the buy -in? My LA game, the buy -in to sit down and get chips and get a chair was $50 ,000. It started out as $10 ,000. It raised it to $50. The New York game was $250 ,000. So I couldn't sit down unless I brought $250 ,000 to lose. That's right. That's right. Then the other relevant numbers are what are the blinds? Meaning what do you have to bet each round to play the game?

37:57To start at the round. Yeah. And there's a small blind and a big blind and it just goes around the table. And so these games played so big. There was so much action the blinds were so high that that initial buy -in would be gone with some people in the first 20 minutes. So then they'd have to come to me and say I need another $250. And I would have to decide in that moment, can they pay this? Are they good for the money? And so I would have to start to establish this relationship, this financial relationship with people based on trust a lot of times. But there are a couple things that kept me safe.

38:32Number one, to stiff this game was social, reputational suicide. People would start to say, oh, they don't have money anymore. Number two, there wasn't a game like it where you could play with some of your biggest heroes. I mean, there are so much business that got on at these games. The things that I saw created, you know, it was mind -blowing. But also... And you can just go to the police if they stiff you, right? No, there's no recourse unless you're willing to go to muscle. Mafia. Yeah. Organized crime. Why can't you go to the police? Because it's not illegal to stiff me or a game. It's illegal to stiff.

39:19You need a gambling license in order to have those types of privileges. So you can go to jail in Vegas for stiffing your gambling debt. But you can't go to jail for stiffing me. Okay. I gave you the money. It's alone. So you saw someone lose $100 million in a night? Yes. How did that happen?

39:46The game was playing huge. They were also playing backgammon. They were also betting sports. Obviously, I can't guarantee $100 million. So I'm out after a certain point. But, and that was shortly before I got in trouble. But that game that I established, the combination, the big game in LA and the big game in New York, sort of joined together and became a billionaire's game. And people over a year's time would lose a billion dollars. People were, I mean, there's rumors that a couple billionaires went broke playing in that game. Fully broke. And this, here comes to a part of this story that is, I think, really important.

40:35I started to see something I could not unsee anymore, which was in the beginning, I just believed rich people could never lose their money, knew what they were doing, and that this was just their form of entertainment. And what I started to see is that a vast majority of the players in these games, particularly the big games, were gambling addicts, totally owned by the addiction of gambling. And I, at some point, had to decide whether I was okay with playing my part in that.

41:17And my answer by my actions was clearly yes, but I paid a huge price for it inside. And I, that sort of started to enable me to make other decisions that were not in line with my integrity. And that had a directly inverse proportional effect on how much I liked myself, how much I, myself esteemed, how much I believed in myself, the kind of person I started to be.

41:50And what had been up into this point about trying to be an entrepreneur and be gutsy and make money and, you know, sort of like source power, but do it in a way where I'm retaining who I am, and integrity started to be exclusively about the money and the power and the status. And I started other games in the city, and I didn't care if somebody could afford it or not. And I was drinking a lot, and I was taking a lot of pharmaceutical pills like Adderall to stay up and Xanax to come down and, you know, just started to live this life of very little self analysis. You compromised your integrity. I did.

42:45Big time.

42:49I'm not, I don't have judgments. Whether or not, like, you know, the sports betting just became legal. Sports betting, so many people in my indictment got indicted for sports betting. Now it's legal. Now if you live in New York, New Jersey, you can download an app connected to your bank account, watch a tennis game. Pretty much everything that happens in that game is a better moment. You can also do that with a Charles Schwab account. I harbor no judgment for draft, whatever the companies are, the CEOs are. It matters who you are, right? For me, once I realized that what I was doing was using all my resources, all my skills, all my intelligence to do, to push an activity that was ruining a lot of people's lives, that was an insult to my integrity.

43:53That was getting out of alignment with who I am and what I care about in the world. What were you good at? So at that peak moment, when you do a skills order of why you were successful, what appears on that skills order? Very good strategy. Seeing a problem coming up with a solution, setting a goal that has, you know, most of the time, pretty slight odds figuring out how to get there. So I'd become very good at strategy. I'd become really good with people. I became so good at it that I became manipulative. And I was using those skills to manipulate people for my personal gain period, not a win -win.

44:43And all of these things, the lifestyle that you're chosen to live in, the way you're chosen to live it, you speak of the internal conflict this creates. Yeah. Were you depressed at that point in your life? If I was a flower on the wall when you were going home, what would I have seen? If I was a flower on the wall, that could feel what you're feeling. What would I have felt? And what would I have seen? I was very depressed, very disappointed with myself, and completely powerless over these forces.

45:23Money, by this point, drugs. And when I said drugs, I didn't like the inconsistency and unreliability of street drugs. I liked the consistency and formulation of pharmaceuticals. They allowed me to be productive and not feel myself, not feel the world. I was drinking a lot. Why didn't you want to feel the world? What were you escaping from? Myself, what I was doing, the way that I was living. What was it you were so ashamed of about the way that you were living outside of the games? I had stopped really communicating, showing up for my family. At times, didn't treat people that worked for me as well as I'd like to.

46:12I started to have, you know, New York was a trip. I had all these beautiful, interesting, compelling women that worked for me. And although I always wanted them, I always wanted to mentor them and provide them with opportunity. The truth is that I made sure they made enough money so they stayed in that darkness with me. And I didn't hold myself to the same accountability that I would hold myself now to in a friendship. I pay them so much money, I don't have to show up for their birthday. It was a, I had, even if I didn't act like it, in my mind, there was a hierarchy. So I had no authentic relationships or very few.

47:01Those were the reasons. Were you in a relationship at this point? So I was in a relationship for most of the LA game and that ended right around the same time that my game ended. And then I went to New York and had sort of a secret relationship. One of the big players, little brother, who kind of did my role in the beginning of handing out chips and everything. I found to be this deeply fascinating, brilliant, heart -centered person. So we were in the secret relationship but I didn't want anyone to know because he didn't measure up to the persona that I was trying to sell, which was very hurtful to him.

47:51How did he know? I told him we can't tell anyone. Did you tell him why you can't tell anybody? Said it's bad for business. Is that what I heard him? You're just saying it was bad for business? If you said that to me and we're in a relationship, I think you don't want to complicate the dynamics. You don't want some people to know that someone you're involved with romantically is also attached to the game. I think it made sense. But down the road I think it became very clear. And we had conversations about it. At some point the mafia show up. So here's the kind of levels and stages of the train wreck.

48:36So the first thing that happened was I had just recruited these guys. They were Russian American businessmen. They had the air of being Ivy League. It seemed so legitimate. I had people vetted within an inch of their life. I used to hire the same people to vet politicians, for instance. To vet people, I had bank employees on my payroll to find out people's liquidity. I mean, it was a whole process. You know, it's a lot of money. And big risk to bring some stranger into a room with important people. And their stories checked out, but there was something in my gut that told me it was off. And it turns out that they were running the biggest insurance fraud scheme in New York City history.

49:16And they had alleged ties to the Russian mob. So then the feds start to pay attention to this $100 million poker game, where people can shop with millions of dollars in cash and get a check. Pretty right for a corruption. And interesting for them. The next thing that happened was I had a run -in with Italian organized crime. And I guess naively I thought that I knew that gambling was always one of the ways that organized crime earns. But, you know, I was having the games at the Plaza Hotel with billionaires and players for the New York Yankees. And I just believed that there was enough separation.

50:04But by this time I had become the biggest game runner in New York City. And they didn't care. They didn't care who my clients were. And they really clear with me, you know, if you want to continue to run these games, you're going to have to give us a piece. And we all know they'll see in that movie, right? And I tried to politely decline their offer and tried to explain to them in business terms why that wouldn't work for me. And I just went on my merry way and started to avoid their calls. And they didn't just go away. And they sent this terrifying guy to my apartment. And he put a gun in my mouth, which is something that you just never forget.

50:52And he beat the hell out of me. And took everything that was in my safe, including photographs, the, you know, couple of things I had from my grandmother. And, you know, he said, I think your answer will be different next time. And if you tell anyone about this, I know where your family lives in Colorado. And so, a couple of things here. First of all, if somebody comes into your apartment in the, you know, in the real world, in real life, it puts a gun in your mouth and steals things from you and beats you up, cracks your ribs. You have somewhere to go. You call the police, you call your family, call your friends.

51:41It was undeniable now that what I was doing was so deeply dangerous and underground. And I was completely alone in it. I was too afraid to tell anyone. And so I'm trying to like, and also, now I'm not just putting my own life in danger. Right? Like I'm in way over my head. And my family's in danger now. And I'm just, I mean, it is so heavy. And so much. And for the first time in my life, I don't have any strategy. I don't, I have no idea what I'm going to do. And then I got so lucky. You know, my only contact with the outside world was food delivery. And then, and the New York Times. And a couple of days later, I got the New York Times and it said 125 arrested and the biggest mob related takedown in New York City history.

52:42And I never heard from them again. But, you know, disaster is a comment. It's just, and the last thing that happened before the whole thing blows up was, you know, for most of my poker running career, I was running these games legally, according to this playbook that had been written for me by, by my attorneys. And one of the biggest ones that differentiated me from a lot of the games in the city and LA was that I didn't take a break. I didn't take a percentage of each pot at the end of the game. You, Winners tip. You know, I'm extending people millions of dollars. I'm in charge of the nine seats that people are, a lot of them are pathologically addicted to.

53:32At the end of the night, I got paid a lot of money. I was making four to six million dollars a year. And, just from tips. Yeah. So, where did that, 46 million dollars a year come from? The winners. So, the winners would play in the game. And if they won, you know, they would tip a percentage, one to five percent of their wins. Games were huge. And I was running multiple games around the city. Paying my taxes, I have an event planning company. But, you know, I was a mess. And I started to get reckless about who I was letting in the games and who I was letting play. And my debt sheet started to get bigger and I started to take a break.

54:24I started to partner with some people that, you know, were not necessarily the right people to partner with. And the feds had thrown a confidential informant in the games by that point. And he tracked that. And so, around the end of that year, I got a text message from one of my employees. I wanted my games and they said, the FBI is here looking for you. Don't come here. And so, you know, I knew finally it was game over. It was game over. And you realized that when you got that call saying the FBI, here looking for you. How do you feel at that moment when you hear someone calls me and says the FBI looking for me?

55:13Terrified. I want my mom and I want my dad. And I want to go back in time. I want to do any of this. Don't even know how to process this. And then, a couple hours later, it got even worse. I got, you know, I went back to my apartment in the whole time. It's like you're in a movie. Looking around every corner, are they going to be there to apprehend me? And I packed a bag and grabbed my dog and tried to book a plane ticket to Denver from JFK. And my credit card got declined, which was strange. And then my debit card got declined, which was really strange. And I logged into my accounts and the account balance read negative $9999 ,99 in all of my accounts.

56:08Why? Because the feds had seized every single penny. And then some.

56:20So what happens then? Did you manage to get out of New York? I did. I managed to get out of New York. I got home to Colorado. I met my mom's house. My attorneys are talking to the feds and they said, basically in this country, you as a person have the presumption of innocence, but your property does not. So someone can't just come get you unless it was under some of those like after 9 -11 or whatever. But, you know, let's just keep it simple. So someone can't just get you through a UNJail, say that you're guilty. You have the right to a trial. With your money, with your property, it's different.

57:02There's a division of the government called asset forventure that can just take it. And then you have to go into legal proceedings to try to get it back. And so basically what that would involve is me going on record, talking about this game, and telling how I made this money, which for the most part I'd made it legally. But, you know, the past several months I hadn't, and it would be an admission on record of a crime. So I couldn't. I couldn't do that. And at this point, they said, we're not interested in her as, you know, we're not pursuing anything criminally against her, and if we are, we'll let her know.

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58:16As over the last year, we've moved out of startup mode and into scale at mode. We no longer have to juggle multiple systems and having everything together has reduced the number of manual tasks and errors. Over 41 ,000 businesses have chosen to future proof their business with NetSuite. So if you'd like to learn how it can help your business, head to netsuite .com slash Bartlett. And free download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning. That's netsuite .com slash Bartlett. What do your parents think of you when you come home at this point? I don't even know what they think of me. I think they're extremely worried.

58:49I think that my dad had been writing me handwritten letters every year, telling me that what I was doing was going to end badly, pleading with me to do something different. So I think my dad was angry.

59:07My mom's just scared. And I think they're also relieved. Like they were, you know, they knew that what I was doing was dangerous. They knew it was, I was up late at night running around with large sums of cash. I mean, they had many sleepless nights. At some point, the FBI gives you an ultimatum regarding becoming a snitch. Oh, okay. So it took two years. For those two years, I moved in with my mom. I got sober. I... At 35 years old. No, I'm not 35 yet. I'm 33. Got sober. Track to Machu Picchu. Did some salt, deep soul searching. Finally got a job. I moved back to Los Angeles. Seven days later.

1:00:03This is two years later, okay? I don't think anything's coming. I have rehabilitated myself, you know, and I've been living with my mom and my grandma in the mountains of Colorado. So I moved back to LA seven days later. And then middle of the night, I get arrested by 17 FBI agents, machine guns, high beam flashlights. They put me a handcuffs and they put this piece of paper in front of me that says the United States of America versus Molly Bloom. I'm thrown into this wild indictment. I'm looking at real time in prison. How much? The press really said 90 years. I think realistically it was more like 10.

1:00:42But, um, you know, I have a day and a half to get to New York City to find an attorney. That's going to represent me in the fight of my life and I don't have a dollar. My dad and I aren't speaking. Why? Because he got mad at me and I got mad at him. Because the age old, unexplored resentments and rife, you know, came to a head.

1:01:17This is my biggest fear, right? Failing the spectacularly in front of the world, the tabloids are covering it. So I had a day and a half to get to New York City to find an attorney. And, you know, I don't have a dollar. My mom just put her house up. It's bail me out of jail. My dad's and I aren't speaking. So, my best friend, you know, loaned me a little money, but I'm sitting down with people who are quoting three to six million dollars. And 250 to even look at it. And so I have like eight meetings that day before the indictment or before the arrangement. And seven out of the eight also, you know, Maya, I really wish you the best, but without a retainer, I can't represent you.

1:02:06And then I met Jim Walden, who was at a very prestigious law firm and kind of like listen to my story, looked at my mom and said, I'm going to help you.

1:02:23And Jim and I started working together. And I'll never forget something he said to me. Now, I went in and I said, look, I don't have the money to fight this. But I can't do 10 years. You know, and I have to have a life after this. So, what is our strategy and what is our angle? And he said, you know what? Integrity is going to be our strategy and our angle. I'm just sitting across from Jim Walden, who is nothing but integrity. Who is a satirny who has spent his life fighting the good fight. Who continues to fight the good fight. Who spent the first part of his career in the Eastern District of New York fearlessly going up to the five crime families.

1:03:01Who's looking at my indictment and saying, this is bullshit. Right? And taking on this case and fighting for me because no one else would. And he's talking about integrity. And I just had this moment of like, it all hit me, you know, who I wanted to be. How far I'd come from that and for what? And I made a decision in that room that day that I could never, ever abandon myself again in that way. I could never abandon the things that I knew to be true to my, to who I am. And one of those is integrity. And doing what I believe to be the right thing. And, you know, a couple weeks later, the prosecutors wanted a meeting and they really wanted me to be a confidential informant.

1:03:57Snitched. Yeah. And, you know, Jim believes this is the whole reason that they brought the indictment. So that you would snitch on the plays and the game and. Yeah. And they didn't care about the mobsters or the people running the insurance fraud scheme. I think they already had what they needed on those. They cared about inside information that I could potentially provide them with on the billionaires, the bankers, the celebrities, the politicians. And I, you know, you spend enough time with people, you do get that inside information. Now, I want to be really clear about something. If there was someone in my game that was doing really bad, like, it's Epstein was in my game.

1:04:36And I knew that he was trafficking children or whatever. Like I would have given that information freely and before this. But what I knew. Was Epstein in your games? No. I thought you was. No, no, no, no. I'm saying if there was a character like him, right, I would have never protected someone like him. But the things that they were interested in, to me, who's booking sports, it's about to become legal in two years in New York and New Jersey. You're going to drag somebody's family through the mud. And I'm going to be, you know, you're, you're, you're accomplished with that. Did they offer to restore your bank accounts if you...

1:05:17Yeah, offered to give me all my money back. Which was how much money? Millions. So they were going to give you millions if you snitched. Yeah. And also, they were going to give me a deferred prosecution, which would have kept, you know, sort of giving me a guarantee that I would stay out of jail. And I went home and I, you know, I had a very short amount of time to make this choice, something like 48 hours. And here's where I got to with it. This place that I was in was 100 % my fault. I did all of this. I had near perfect information about the law. I had great parents. I had college education almost completed.

1:05:56I had all the opportunities in the world. And I had chosen this and I had chosen this path. And I had to own that, you know, and turning around and ruining the lives of people who had played in my game, who'd made me very wealthy. Many of them I saw their kids grow up to get out of the trouble of my own choices, did not feel in alignment with my true self. So you ultimately get sentenced? I get sentenced. I get a judge that's very disappointed with me. And, but ultimately a pretty reasonable guy who said, listen, you're running poker games and it seems like you've done a lot to change your life.

1:06:43I'm not, I'm not going to sentence you to prison. Which it's hard to adequately express to you how big that moment is. Because you can do all, you know, I used to say to Jim all the time, whatever, I'll go to federal prison, I'll learn a new language, I'll mentor some women. And he's like, that's not what it's like in the prison system. You know, people are dangerous and a lot of the guards are dangerous and women get raped. It's not, it's not a country club. And in my mind, I was just like, I can handle, I can handle it, but in that moment when you get sentenced to not go to prison and you're not going to lose your freedom, you don't realize how big it is until that happens.

1:07:30You know, and probably would have been even bigger from it the other way, but I mean, I felt like, I'm going to, I lost my feet, you know.

1:07:42And, oh man, you know, here, here we are going to dinner after the sentencing and there's my best friend, Ali, who stuck with me through everything and my family and even my old boss came. And I'm looking around the table and everyone's living their lives. Having kids, my brother's a heart cert, he's in residency. He just graduated Harvard. My other brother just got inducted into the Colorado Sports Hall of Fame. And I'm just sitting there and I'm like, here I am, the family fell in, you know, I'm 30 now, I'm 35 years old. Millions of dollars in debt, a convicted felon, a social pariah to some degree.

1:08:25Like, I'm all in for a comeback, but how does that even happen? Where do you go from here? So I remember going back and walking the mountains, you know, going back, moving in with my mom, walking the mountains, walking, meditating, trying to figure out what is the way out here. You know, one of the things I always talk to my friends about is as you become more and more successful, you get to see behind other curtains. I call it, you know, it's like a door like, yeah, like you, it's a car you didn't even know was there. And you meet this other group of people and you find out that they're making money in this other set of ways.

1:09:02And you go, what the fuck? You guys have been back here doing this stuff all the time. So I can so that's so resonates. Kind of all these money games, you know, existed. Like, you do this and you trade this and you do this and you flip this. And you go, what the fuck? I was like, I was earning like minimum wage in here. Yeah, right. And you billionaires around here just like doing billion dollar things with these little games that I didn't know existed. And that's what I've come to learn in my life is like, I got to see behind a lot of curtains and I say, oh, fuck, I can do, I can earn this much money without doing any work or you can do it like this.

1:09:32And one of those things that you came to learn about when you got to see behind the curtain. Couple things. First of all, I thought behind that curtain, I was going to find the most contented, generous, non -peddy, like extraordinary people. And that's not what I saw for the most part. They're exceptions.

1:09:57I just saw people who were kind of like unwilling to fail. Because I don't know because they're obsessed with money. I mean, you know, it was just drive a lot of times. Or being dragged or being dragged. Right. Was it more being dragged than drive or was it more drive than dragged? I could they could they stop if they wanted, you know, could they were they in control of their obsessions? Dragged. In that in those settings. That's what I've tend to tend to find. Yeah. I met a lot of billionaires and I with the odd exception, I'm like, damn, unhappy. Yeah. Can't stop. Yeah. Have you ever read that book, The Psychology of Money?

1:10:42Yeah. Yeah. Don't you love that story in there? I love it. I don't know what's the same particular talking about. Remember when Joseph Heller is at the house of the of the billionaire and someone walks up and says, Heller, like this guy just made in one day what your gross sales were for catch 22 or whatever. And Heller just goes, yeah, but I have something he'll never have. He goes, why could that possibly be enough? Boom. That's peace. Most of these people that I knew do not have peace and peace should not be underrated. Peace, contentment, the ability to find joy in small moments. And then have the big moments.

1:11:27I am all for Adrenaline. I still chase it. I have to chase it less, not that I'm a mom. But I chase it in healthier ways, you know, hellyskying, whatever it is, climbing mountains. But to sit, lay your head down at the end of the day and be able to say, I know who I am.

1:11:53And there may be times where I lose sight of that, but I have a process for that. And, you know, I've made these living amends to these people I love so much. What else did you see behind that curtain? So you saw a lot of dissatisfaction with life. Yeah. I saw a much bigger world than I knew existed and a much more malleable world. That's super key. That's not that point. Yeah, I thought like the walls were a lot more solid. In life, generally. Yeah. But you realize success is something that we can all bend, control, manipulate. I think all is a pretty powerful word. I think if we are willing to do the work that it entails on ourselves, yes, I think success, money, abundance is much more available than the rest of the world.

1:12:56And then I originally thought. It's not because you see very ordinary people achieving very extraordinary results. And then once you see how they're doing it, you go, ah, okay. Yes, precisely. That's also what I feel. Yeah. That's cool. I haven't thought about that. And that's really cool. I like that. And this next, the way that my story ends really kind of speaks to that. Or not ends, but you know, begins again. So I'm walking around the mountains, I'm thinking to myself, like, what's the way out? And I just realized there's a unique story here. We've seen this version of a story, it just usually has a male star.

1:13:48Right? The wolf of Wall Street, right? Right, right, right. And so I'm like, I'll write this book. And it'll sell so well and my life will change, you know. And I went to New York publishing and there was a lot of publishers that wanted to give me a lot of money for a celebrity take -down book. And I wasn't willing to do that. So I get rejected a lot. But I just kept, you know, it's just persistent and I got this book deal. I got my own press and everything and I waited to, for this, you know, I released the book and I waited for my life to change. And I think like a hundred people read the book or something.

1:14:23Really? Maybe a little more than a hundred, but not enough to even earn back my advance, which wasn't that big. And then I said to myself, I still believe in this story. I still believe that the story is the way out. I just believe it. I could see it. I'm going to have to bring in the big guns. And I said to myself, I need to get, I need to go speak to one of the most powerful filmmakers in Hollywood. I had a bunch of meetings and I was like, it can't be something small. It has to be something big. And so I made this short list of people who really come, who really are successful, who are the eight list here.

1:15:04And it was like Sean Deryme, Steven Spielberg, Aaron Sorkin. And there was another component that this person had to have, another feature to their personality. They had to be fearless because there were so many people, as you can imagine, in the political world, in Hollywood, in the billionaires making calls saying, don't make this Molly Bloom movie because they don't want to take the risk at all. Even though I went to bat for them, they don't want to take the risk at all that they could be portrayed in this movie. Anyway, so I loved the West Wing and I loved social network and I love the characters that, and the sort of message and humanity that comes out from his writing.

1:15:51So I was like, I need a meeting with him. Aaron Sorkin. And he happens to also be the highest pay screenwriter in Hollywood. So he's a good bet, right? That number doesn't come from fit than air. So most people laughed me out of their office. They're like your book sold ten copies. You know, like this, it was in the press a couple years ago. Aaron Sorkin's never going to look at this. And I just kept with it. I was just persistent because I had seen, you know, I've seen how people get successful, which was persistence. Of course, you have to have a good product. Of course, you have to have a good story.

1:16:37I believed in the story, but I got rejected so many times. So finally, I get this meeting with Aaron. And I remember trying to mentally prepare for it. Living with my mom, you know, I'm by all societal measures, the classic loser. I'm like, living in my mom's basement. I have no money. I don't have all any of the trappings of the world and the success world, you know. But I said to myself, you walk in there with humility of lessons learned, but you walk in there like you are worth your worthwhile. Isn't there some famous quote that he said about how you were the most confident, down and out person he never knew?

1:17:26Oh, yeah. So when I was like, when I was done telling him my story, he said, well, it's all you one thing I've never met someone so down on their luck and so full of themselves. So down on their luck and so full of themselves. I certainly was not full of myself, but that's what you were giving. And yeah, I mean the tailed AR of that is he takes it on. He drops what he's doing. He takes it on. He decides to make it his directorial debut as well as writing it. The movie comes out. It's nominated for every award. BAFTA's Oscars, Column Globes. Also, I had done a lot of really good negotiating on my part, on the money part.

1:18:13They wanted to give me nothing upfront and promise me back end and I had done enough research to know that that wasn't ever going to happen in the back end and Hollywood is notoriously. Can you say you did well, what you mean? Give me something. So how can I gauge that? So I can just tell you that I got 15 times what someone normally would have gotten in my position. And your position was a book that didn't really sell you the owner of the IP I guess. Yeah, life rights, life rights deal. Like if that book had become a best seller and it already had a built -in audience and I had a million followers on Instagram and there was this compelling package.

1:18:58So how well did that movie do? It did extremely well. I mean 50 million people saw it. Do you have an idea of numbers of value? Do they give you a value? Because I know they sell opening box office with X. Like lifetime value? Yeah. They don't because you have a back end. They give you a sort of convoluted back end number. But everyone made money on the movie. And it got nominated for awards. And you know, I'll never forget getting the bank wire again. And it takes a really long time. You know, you don't just get paid upfront. You get like 50 grand. And then you get the rest of it three years later, four years later, whenever the movie gets made.

1:19:41And it was a rocket road to make the movie because it was all set up at Sony. Everything was going smoothly. It had this big budget, like big movie studio budget. And then Kim Jong -un got pissed about the interview. Remember the Seth Rogen movie? Oh, yeah. Any hacked Sony studios and the chairwoman was Amy Pascal. And she was the one that really believed in the movie. And she had to step down and then the new chair person wasn't that passionate. And so then we had to set it up kind of like at festivals. So, you know, nothing's ever as smooth ride. So you get a big check from this movie? I do.

1:20:22But I'm still, I still owe millions, not today sitting here, but at that point. So I had to figure out like, what is, what's the next move? And I remember the first time, I didn't even think about speaking, you know, like a speaking career or anything. I just remember the first time I got hired to speak, it was in front of thousands of people for Google. And I had never spoken publicly. And I think I just got on that stage and just blacked out. It was so awful and I was so bad at it. But the money was compelling. The adventure was compelling. And so, you know, it allows me now to make a really great income and then also work on the other things I'm working on, which is a podcast in the community called The Smart Girls Guide to Everything.

1:21:20It's basically using the strategy, the access, the network, the resources that I've been able to accumulate in my life and applying it to real life. And then I'm writing a book on effective presence. And I have a one and a half year old at home. Which wasn't a straight ride, right? No. I read that you had IVF nine times. Nine times. People don't understand the pain of having IVF even once and then it not going to plan. Yeah. To have it nine times. Yeah. It's the mental anguish. You know, it was interesting for me because, and I think this is important to talk about, and I'm glad you brought this up.

1:21:58So I froze my eggs at 36. And I was told, you're going to be good. You have a lot of eggs, you're young, you know, whatever. And my point is here is I think it's a big money making industry and I think they oversell the technology. And it's not to say don't do it, but to do your own research. In my case, what I realized is doing three rounds of an egg freezing procedure would have probably given me a much better. The technology is getting better, but eggs are 80 % water. So freezing and thawing is kind of tricky. Anyway, so I thought I had purchased this insurance policy on my fertility. And then when I met Fiona's dad, I was 41 and I said, okay, great.

1:22:46Let's thought these magical eggs and none of them worked. And I was 41 and my fertility metrics. Basically, the doctor said, I'll give you a 4 % chance of being this happen. And nine rounds later, it worked. And I'm so happy I didn't miss it. That was a special moment. Oh, also terrifying, terrifying moment. The most vulnerable you'll ever be in your entire life. Up until the point that Fiona was born, I thought to myself, I believed I went through life believing, particularly after everything that I had just been through. There's nothing I can't handle. And then you have a baby and you realize losing this little life is something that I don't think I can handle.

1:23:41And of course, there are people that do and they do it with grace, but you just know in that moment that there is something that is changed in you that will never be the same. Terrifying. Fiona comes to you when she's 18 years old. She says, Mom, I would like to be a success. What advice have you got for me, Mom? What do you say to Fiona? Well, we're going to be having this conversation well before she's 18.

1:24:14I want to help her cultivate her passions, her talents. I want to teach her about her mind and the ways that I have had to learn, how to manage that mind, how to manage fear, how to manage the internal critic. I want to teach her to sit with hard emotions, not to run from them, to figure out what they can teach us. I want to teach her to go into the shadows, the parts of ourselves that we don't want to look at and look at it. Don't wait until you get beat up by the mob, federally indicted, you know, like addicted to drugs and now call to finally go into those shadows to look at the demons that you have been dealt with.

1:25:04All these things that I learned through the trials and tribulations of my life, I want to teach her at a young age. I want to teach her that her worth is not dictated by the things that she produced, but she is inherently worthy at the same time. It is she will not be happy unless she has purpose in life. I believe that to be true. I don't know who said it, but it was very succinctly said to love and to work. I believe that people need a reason to get up in the morning to go into the world and feel purpose. I don't care if that purpose is stay at home mom or president of the United States. Will you teach anything that you learn specifically from being in those rooms with the billionaire's athletes, politicians?

1:25:53Absolutely. I'll teach her about risk. What will you teach her about risk? You know, I've seen thousands of hands are winning and losing poker and I've kept spreadsheets, Excel spreadsheets on people for years. And I've then watched the choices they make and how they get to the numbers that I look at the end of the year. Is it in their business choices or? The choices they're making in the game and then in their greater life. A lot of times when people lose, they become unwilling to take another big risk. And if you aren't willing to take risks in life over time, you will lose the game. The people that took calculated risks over time, one, people that took impulsive risks didn't.

1:26:50But people that took calculated risks over time and didn't let a past failure or an external condition stand in that way, won the game. I think a healthy relationship with risk is super important. I think being able to stay composed when there's chaos inside, chaos outside is incredibly important in those rooms. I think being able to know when to use your emotional mind to make choices and no one to use your rational mind and being able to toggle between the two in an intentional and unfulfilled. And smart way is super important. And I think ego -ingred is the reason that I've seen so many lives come undone, including my own.

1:27:46The person that sits before me today, you know, been on a journey to say the least, lived many, many lives in many different chapters. What are you most proud of about yourself now? When you reflect on the person you are versus the person you were, what are some of the things you're most proud of about yourself? I'm proud that when I stay self -aware, and when I believe that I'm wrong or believe that I'm behaving in a way that is not aligned with who and what I'm trying to do. I want to be in the world that I'm willing to either say sorry or do that work really deeply, relentlessly do that work to change.

1:28:34I'm willing that I'm proud that I just continue to, I'm proud that I stayed open. Is there anything you're not proud of? From my past or in the present? In the present. Yeah, I mean there are little things that I'm working on, but I wouldn't say that I'm not proud of them. Because I think having grace for yourself and learning how to forgive yourself and treat yourself with compassion is something that I had to learn as a survival skill back in those dark days. But something that I continue to practice. The only times that I'm not proud of myself are if I'm staring straight into something that I know that I'm totally ignoring that's causing harm in the world to myself to other people.

1:29:29Well, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to leave the question for. And the question left for you is what is the message you needed to hear when you were younger that you didn't hear? And who was the best person to say it? That didn't say it.

1:29:58Okay, that's a great question and a hard question. And I think the answer is stop searching for the evidence that you were worthwhile, that you're good enough and just start to believe it. And I think the person to say it to me is me. I think I was my own worst critic. You know, we all have certain challenges in our life, but I think at some point taking responsibility for your own shit is the most important thing a human being can do.

1:30:37Are you there now? Like are you at the point now where you know your self worth isn't going to come from glory? Not 100 % but I'm like 90. Do you think we ever overcome these desires to see these things? Because they feel to be so hard -wired and as a specific they come at a formative age from people that are important to us like our parents or the context we raised in. It's almost like an oven. It's like you think about anything that you bake. You can't unbake the thing. You can't unbake a cake. There's lots of things you can like separate using various local processes. Yeah. I think maybe if you're willing to go live a monastic life and just meditate all day and not live in the world even then.

1:31:26I know that for me, anytime I think I have something completely figured out, something fixed, something else will happen in life and it will crop up. So that's why I think it's so important to have a process for how you deal with these things. And I think anybody that says, I did this work on myself and now I'm fine isn't being fully truthful. I agree. I completely agree. And I think that's the most honest answer to give. And I also think it's the true answer. It's the answer that all the psychologists and psychologists and psychiatrists that I sit here with tell me as well. It's the answer I've seen in my life that it's more about management than it is about taking our traumas or our hardwiring to zero, which...

1:32:03And I think that's important to say because people that are struggling with the same recurring patterns in their life hear that and go, Oh, thank God it's not just me. Yeah. You know, because they'll beat themselves up when the therapy doesn't work or the podcast they listen to just change them. Right. We're like staring at the sun and sitting in an ice cube bath doesn't fix their... They're still toxic after the respawn. They want to refund. Molly, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for your wisdom, your honesty. You don't have to be so honest. And in particular, the amount of life lessons you've been able to draw from this experience I think is of tremendous value.

1:32:36So it's no surprise you're a speaker. I bet extensively on your podcast being a huge success as well. And I'm really excited about this book because I really do think that effective presence is clearly one of your absolute, you know, dominant skills. Just from meeting you today as well, when the minute you said that, explain it to me. I was like, I got it. And that's an unbelievably powerful skill because all we face in this world is other people. Yeah. And so knowing how to get the best from those people and whatever context that might be is ultimately the superpower that anyone could possess.

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