Leading Cancer Researcher: They’re Ignoring My Research, Cancer Patients Must Know This!

28:22How do you take a highly sophisticated piece of an organelle and making energy so incredibly efficient? And now we're using energy. So this organelle signals to the nucleus called mitochondrial stress response, retrograde signaling. The nucleus acts as a respondent to what this organelle wants. So the nucleus and oncogenes, which you've heard a lot about, they open the floodgates to bring in the glucose and glutamine that allow the cell to grow in a dysregulated way. So we've, as you said, they go back to these ancient fermentation pathways where there was no regulation because this organelle was not part of the problem.

29:02So what's part of the situation, the regulation? So is there, what are the lifestyle factors that are causing this to, drastically increasing the probability of this happening? It's not necessarily what the person did in all cases. It's what the person was exposed to that could have elicited this. That's the oncogenic paradox. So we have shown that inflammation produces these cytokines. When you have an inflammatory heat inflammation, they damage the ability of this organelle to make energy efficiently. Chronic inflammation is known to be a risk factor for cancer. Chronic inflammation. Intermittent hypoxia.

29:43Carcinogens. What's intermittent hypoxia? It's like sleep apnea, that kind of thing. Oh, okay. And Warburg had clearly shown that intermittent hypoxia on cells would damage the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation, leading to a compensatory fermentation. So you have to compensate. Because let me tell you, if you don't compensate, you're dead. I mean, the cell dies. When we look at the populations around the world that have the most prevalence of cancer, it doesn't appear to be some of the countries like Niger, Gambia, Nepal, consistently rank at the very bottom for cancer incidence. Conversely, high-income countries like Australia, New Zealand, and the United States have the highest rates of cancer.

30:28Why is that? It's because of our technology. We are still Paleolithic men. and our biology has allowed us to store energy efficiently because of times of famine. We are now in a new environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional stress. We have poor sleep habits. You pile all those together with the exposure to carcinogens and whatever, and you chronically damage this organelle. And in some organs, you can get breast cancer if it's a lung, if it's a—whatever it is, that organelle becomes chronically damaged in some populations of cells in a particular organ.

31:18And you can elicit dysregulated cell growth as the result of that. You know, what I find is in the paper that we have with the chart, if you can keep your mitochondria healthy, is don't forget Paleolithic man, our ancestors from 500 ,000 years ago, or modern men, like you said, in these countries, living according to traditional ways with minimal interference from modern diet and lifestyle issues, have lower amount of cancer in general. And this is what Albert Schweitzer found, the famous humanitarian physician. He was specifically looking for cancer in African tribes. And he said, remarkably, it's extremely low.

32:00What are these guys doing where Western society has a lot of cancer and these Africans have living according to the traditional ways? So they have a lot of exercise. They're eating all organic foods. They're not under the same kind of stress or exposure to chemicals that modern societies have. And you find out you have very low cancer. Like, for example, dogs are all evolved from the wolf. Wolves in the wild rarely have cancer. The domestic dog, cancer is the number one killer of the domestic dog. What is the dog doing at the wolf? The wolf is out running around eating natural foods. The dog is in an apartment somewhere, gets a dog walker once a day, right?

32:39And the next thing, the dog is obese and full of cancer. So it all comes down to what you do to maintain the health and vitality of the mitochondria that reduce the risk. And that's what this chart I'll show you has. would reduce the risk of damaging this chronically. Okay. So that can explain in large part why modern societies are struggling with chronic diseases. Not only cancer, we have type 2 diabetes, we have obesity, we have high blood pressure, we have a whole, even neuropsychiatric problems. If you can protect and keep this organelle healthy, you reduce risk. Now, people say, well, cancer has to be genetic because we have inherited genes that put us at higher risk, like the BRCA1 for breast cancer and the LeFram-N-E for a variety of other cancers.

33:28Our paper in this pile done by Bob Kaplan, he went through and looked at all the genetic risk. Which paper is it? It's one of the ones published in Oncology. But none of these mutations are 100 % penetrant, meaning that they're secondary risk factors. A primary risk factor would be every time that mutation is there, 100 % of the people, because I work in Tay-Sachs disease. I work in more in eras of metabolism. Those mutations are 100 % responsible for that condition. There's no gene mutation that's 100%. You have that gene, you're going 100 % get cancer. Most of them are what they call incompletely penetrant.

34:06So what does that tell us about the nature of... Well, and then we went back. What Bob did is he went back and he looked at what every one of those gene mutations in some way disturbs the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation in that organelle. In the mitochondria. In the mitochondria. We have all the evidence, all the risk factors, all the genetic... Just the front page there. I was going to show you the hard data, but you got... So anyway, all of them damage the efficiency of energy through this organelle. So that's like carcinogens. That's like viral infections. The viruses, like hepatoma and papilloma, Their products will go in here and damage it, or they will replicate inside this organelle, screwing up the efficiency, causing a compensatory fermentation, causing the dysregulated cell growth through abnormal calcium signaling, causing cells to no longer be responsive to their neighbors.

35:04Is that clear? If I can make you understand this, we can make everybody understand this. Yeah. So the reason I spend a lot of time asking why and asking for clarification is because when I do this show, I then go out into the real world and I meet the people that listen. Yeah. And one of the groups of people that listens are young offenders. And when I went and visited them, I pointed at the episodes that I thought would help them. Yeah. And one of the young offenders said to me, I can't listen to that episode because the words you used were too big. And I remember thinking to myself... Okay, I get that all the time, but guess what?

35:34Now we have AI. And you can take this statement and put it into AI, right on the... and it'll dumb it down for you. So that's a tool that we previously did not have. So I use that all the time. I said, when you hear me speak like this, don't think I'm Eric, don't think I'm just, these are the terms that we use when you're part of the academy. Yeah. Okay. But we can take those terms now and AI can do a wonderful job in synthesizing. Oh yeah, I know what he's talking about now. But without that tool, then it becomes like you said, well, I can't understand anything. Mm-hmm. I've got 60 seconds and I'm going to show you how much I can get done because of our sponsor called Whisper Flow.

36:17And for those of you that don't know what it is, it's a business I invested in that turns your speech into text in any app or device. I'm going to post into our Slack channel, which rewards whichever team member conducted the most experiments this week. Hi, everyone. Here is this week's Experimenter of the Week. Congratulations to the Diary of a CEO trailer team, which is Ant, Liv, Dom, and Cam. You guys have one. Okay, now I'm going to open Gmail. So here is one of our founders on an email chain that I want to connect my team with. All I have to say is add my team's emails and Whisper will do exactly that.

36:50Now a quick message to Juan, who does my schedule every single week. Hey Juan, can I record on Wednesday at 2 p? Actually, no, do you know what? Let's record at 3 p.m. on Wednesday. Whisperflow is four times faster than typing and it is incredibly easy to use. So if you want to give it a go, all you have to do is head to whisperflow.ai.stephen to download it today. If you know me, and if you've listened to this podcast before, you'll know how obsessed I am with sleep. I've been on a bit of a journey with sleep. I see it as the single most important thing that I have the privilege of having control over.

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38:02Big opportunity. I'm not kidding. Give it a try. I really want to just make sure I tick off the box of cause factors. So you mentioned stress. You mentioned sleep. I currently don't have cancer, as far as I'm aware, God forbid. But I want to do everything I can to prevent the probability. And from what I've understood, that means protecting my mitochondrial function by living a lifestyle where I'm not creating this sort of like crazy oxidative stress on the mitochondria. Right. So give me a prescription of how I should live my life to keep my mitochondria healthy. Well, that's why we developed the glucose ketone index calculator, the first biomarker tool that can allow people to know the level of health in their mitochondria.

38:46Because when you shift from carbohydrate fuel to lipid fuel. What's lipid fuel? Fat. So ketones. Ketones are a water-soluble breakdown product of fatty acids. Okay. So we store adipose tissue. We store fat. Which is the belly fat. All over. We have fat on the outside. Yeah. So on the outside. That was there because as a species, we had to survive in the most harsh environments. And food was not always there. So we had to survive all kinds of famine, all kinds of absence of food. Our bodies are so, it's a machine that was home over millions of years to be super efficient. So glucose is gold, sugar, okay?

39:36You either burn it or you can store it as fat, okay? That's the key. But when you have, you're not bringing in sugar, that stored fat now moves into the bloodstream, goes to the liver, and it's like taking a branch and putting it in a chopper, and you outcome these little soluble ketone bodies. They're breakdown products of long-chain fatty acids. They can replace sugar for the brain, for the muscles, for most other cells in the body, except erythrocytes. But they can replace the energy of glucose, okay? So, and that's how we evolved. But we're now in an environment where we have massive amounts of highly processed carbohydrates.

40:18And we don't want to pee them out unless you have diabetes or something. So we store them as fat. So we have an obesity epidemic as the result of our evolutionary ability to store energy, which kept us alive as a species. Because if we were unable to store the fat in 500 ,000, we would have all been extinct. You and I, this conversation would never exist. We would never have existed as a species, except for our ability to store energy. And we burn energy efficiently in these organelles. So this is all a very highly efficient machine. So when we lose that ability, when we have so much energy in the environment, stress, no exercise, all this, we store more and more fat.

40:58We produce an environment that's very damaging to this organelle. Say that again. So how does stress impact that? Stress elevates corticosteroids. When you're under stress, you get into a fight, into an argument, or you're stressed out by business deal gone bad, whatever. Whatever. Corticosteroids elevate blood sugar, contributing to systemic inflammation. It's okay for a short period of time to be pissed off at something, but it's the chronic stress. The chronic, like looking at the cell phone, doomscrolling, all this kind of crazy stuff, while eating a big Twinkie. Doomscrolling, eating Twinkies, not moving.

41:34All of this creates stress on this organelle in some population of cells. It makes it work harder. It's damaging because you produce reactive species that damage the efficiency of this organelle to produce energy effectively. And that either will kill the cell gradually if it can't use compensatory fermentation or predispose you to cancer. So either way, it's unhealthy. So we have chronic disease. Cancer is the number one big dog in the chronic disease world. I mean, it's the one that people fear the most. type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, you know, dementia. All of these are part of damage to this organelle in one way or another.

42:17And like I said, for Parkinson's disease, when that organelle gets damaged, the cells of the substantia nigra die. They are incapable of compensating with fermentation, so they up and die. Cancer is very rare in neurons of the brain. Neurons, the glial cells of the brain form these brain tumors mostly. But neurons can't compensate with fermentation, so they die. So you either get compensatory ancient fermentation leading to dysregulated cell growth, which we call cancer, or we get cell death leading to chronic diseases. What about sleep then? What's going on with sleep that's causing? Sleep is a way we can restore the energy efficiency of the mitochondria.

42:54If we're well slept. If we have good sleep, yeah. You know, everybody feels good when you have a good night's sleep. Your body feels rejuvenated because you're not stressing out. You're reducing the ability of this organelle to manage the metabolic environment. If you're up all night and you're like stressed out, you're never given this organelle in a particular cell, in a particular part of the body. You know, you get neuropsychiatric problems. You can get digestive problems. You can get cancer. You can get type 2 diabetes. You have a whole, and we put it in the paper. They're all the different stress, all the different things that can chronically or acutely damage oxidative phosphorylation.

43:35So sleep basically gives the mitochondria a little bit of a break. Yes. It gives your whole body a break, let's be honest. But you pile those things on together. Lack of exercise. Our ancestors, what do you think? Our ancestors, you know how hard it is to run down and kill a big buffalo or a woolly mammoth? I mean, you're exhausted after doing something. As a matter of fact, you chase these animals. You separate, and this is another thing that was really interesting, came out of Israel, I think it was last year. They looked at the cavemen, what they were eating. They were eating the strongest members of the herd, leading to the indirect extinction of these animals.

44:11They found out that if you can eat the strongest member of the herd, you'll get the vitality of that buffalo or elephant or whatever the hell they were eating, because they knew the marrow and the physiology of that organism at that point in its life could provide you with the strength that that had. Now, when you eat the strongest members of the herd because you want to be tough, you're putting the old and the young vulnerable to predators, leading to the extinction. And this is what a big paper came out of Israel. They looked at these cavemen, what they were eating like 500 ,000 years ago or whatever they were doing.

44:49So humans indirectly caused extinction of other species in part because they were eating the toughest guys in the herd. So because they felt that if I eat those guys, I'm going to be strong too. And in a way, they're right. But all of it has to do with the energy efficiency of your muscles, your brain, your ability to be resilient, endurance. I'm telling you, these guys were chiseled. They weren't dying from type 2 diabetes, cancer, right, dementia. They were dying from infections and injuries and child mortality. We're mostly killing our paleolithic ancestors. But when you bring your body back into a low glucose ketone, you're actually going back like you were.

45:31And this is why we developed the glucose ketone index. What is in that envelope in front of you? Well, this is a paper that's under embargo because they think it's going to be, the world thinks it's going to be very important. And it is. so and what it is this is a um a way to keep that organelle healthy so this is a way to manage uh um energy efficiency in the body and this hasn't been released yet it hasn't been released okay it's coming out it's a it's going to be a lead article in the frontiers in science and not only that we the paper the paper was written uh for the scientists and then the journal decided to make a second copy for, they call Young Minds.

46:18So letting kids that are like 8 to 12 or 14 years old synthesize it down. And one of my colleagues said, that's probably what most people will be reading because they don't want to know about the bioenergetics that actually goes on inside this organelle to explain why this chart means something. And you've been working on this for some time? Well, I built the GKI. So let me tell you the story. There was a woman, an American woman, a lawyer, Trudy DuPont, who developed a kind of a brainstem tumor. And after I wrote my book, that book there, that's my only book. Anyway, Trudy wanted to use this metabolic therapy.

46:57She stayed alive much longer, over 10 years with this. She eventually passed away, unfortunately. So I was measuring, because we knew that the tumor cells needed sugar to grow. Otto Warburg showed that, and many other people show that. And they can't burn ketones because you need a very efficient mitochondria to burn ketones for energy. Our normal cells can burn ketones for energy, and that gives us tremendous—we can actually breathe lower oxygen, more energy if you have efficient—if you can burn ketones efficiently in this organelle. But if the organelle is damaged, they can't use the ketones.

47:37They can't burn fatty acids or ketones, which stores lipid drops. It's one of these big papers here. Steven, you can't believe how people misinterpret information. They see droplets of fatty acids in the cytoplasm and say, you see, the cancer cell needs all that fatty acid. No, they can't. It's there to protect them. If they try to burn it, they blow this up and die. So there is a storage of fat. They can't burn fatty acids or ketone bodies. So I knew cancer needed glucose, and I knew cancer couldn't burn fatty acids or ketones because this organelle is broken. So I'm measuring glucose and ketones independently in Trudy.

48:13She's doing the finger prick thing, sending me the information back and saying, oh, here's my glucose, here's my ketones. Okay, so I have a ketone glucose reader in front of me. Right, right. If I put my blood on this strip, it tells me my glucose levels. If I put my blood on this strip, it tells me my ketone levels. Right, right. But if you look at them independently, glucose is very volatile, very variable. And this is why I developed the glucose ketone ratio, because Trudy had a parking spot that was for handicapped because she had a cane. Her brainstem glioma was preventing her from walking as effectively as normal.

48:52So somebody took her parking spot. She was bullshit. So she ran upstairs and took her blood sugar, and it was 186 milligram per deciliter. It was very, very high. So, and I know she was on a ketotic diet. And she emails me and says, I'm going to die. My cancer is going to grow fast. What's going on? She said, my blood sugar is like 186. And, you know, it's supposed to be, you told me it was supposed to be 60 or, you know, 50, 65 or in that zone. So I said, what's your ketone level? Oh, it's still, you know, like you just had 0.4 millimolar or I think it was 0.9 millimolar. I said, well, that didn't change, right?

49:29No, just the sugar changed. So I said to the students that were working with Josh Weidenbauer, I said, Josh, this trying to measure these two independently is a bullshit. This is hard to figure out. So what we decided to do in millimolar, because glucose comes out in milligram per deciliter, whereas ketones come out in millimolar. So we had to convert glucose to millimolar and divide it by the ketone in millimolar. And then you get a number that's not all over the world. It's very stable. So we were able to, because of Trudy, that one cancer patient, we developed the ratio of this. Then later on, we realized that this ratio is a statement of how healthy your mitochondria actually are.

50:12So when you have these low ratio, you're a paleolithic man. You're back in the zone where we didn't have chronic diseases because we didn't have damage to the organelle that would cause those diseases. So, Paleolithic man, think, where are they getting their pastries? Where are they getting their cakes and sweets and all this other kind? They didn't have it. They weren't there because of choice. They were there because of circumstance. So, and we learned Paleolithic man was always in some sort of a state of some ketosis because they wouldn't have food for periods. They were very active in their exercise.

50:46They didn't have chronic diseases, but they had other kinds of diseases. So then my student, Derek Lee, myself, and Christos Chernopoulos, we started to make a ratio chart. Now, these are the numbers that you get when you divide your sugar by your ketones. Okay, so my sugar by my ketones. So if I did my glucose measure now on this little relay here. Okay, let's see what your GKI is. Oh, you want me to do it? Okay. Okay, you had a glucose. You had a ketone with 0.4 millimolar. Yeah. Okay, what was your sugar? So we can divide. We can do the division right now and tell you what you have. You can get these little ketones.

51:23Oh, yeah. It's a keto mojo. And you can also get them now for, wow, these guys are skilled at doing this. I travel with one of these, believe it or not. Yeah. So I have one all the time. Wow. 90. 90. Okay. So you have to divide. You're not getting the, doesn't this give you the push button and give you the GKI right away? Because the new ones have it. So you have to divide 90 by 18, and you get a number. Five. Five. So divide five by 0.4. 12.5. Okay. So here you are. 12.5. You're down here in the prevention zone. Ah, nice. So this is where Paleolithic man mostly lived. Paleolithic man lived in the yellow-green zones because they didn't have access to all of the things that would drive up your blood sugar and keep your ketones.

52:17When your blood sugar goes through the roof, your ketones are really low because insulin is now driving it up. So that's good. 12, huh? So I did the carnivore diet for a week eating big ribeyes. You like ribeye steak? Yes, of course. Okay. Ribeyes, bacon and eggs, lamb. So I did it for a week. and I was able to get down to 10. Okay. And I could get lower, but I was loving the ribeyes so much, I ate too much of it, right? You have to have some level of discipline. Yeah. So, but people, this is what we call the zone of prevention. It's very hard to get cancer or chronic diseases when you're in these zones because you're keeping this organelle quite healthy.

53:03When you live in these zones consistently. You don't have to live consistently because humans, We evolved as a scavenger species. We would engorge ourselves because we knew it wasn't happening every day. Modern man is living in the feast every single day. And that's why we have all the chronic diseases. This is the red zone is the zone of risk for chronic diseases and cancer. And when you look at the obesity epidemic, you look at all these things, these guys are— And it's like we can visit the red zone. We don't want to live in the red zone. So if I was to visit the red zone, it would look like meeting high-carbohydrate diets, lots of sugar.

53:47Yeah. No exercise. No exercise. Yeah. And basically, modern man. And also eating five meals a day, like snacking all the time. Oh, then you'd be—you know, we have—there's document cases. We have them up to 500. You're joking. Oh, yeah. GKI is a 500. You have people with, you know, blood sugars about 400 or 500 milligram per deciliter. I mean, you could do zero ketones. I mean, you do the math. It's unbelievable. You're basically saying, I want to keep my blood glucose levels low. And you want to have some level of ketones. And my ketone levels somewhat as high as I can. Well, you don't want to go because people, then I hear the physicians listening and go, oh, he's going to go into ketoacidosis.

54:27People, give me a break. Like ketoacidosis is like when you have ketone levels of 15 to 20 millimolar. Are you kidding me? What is yours, 0.4? That's called nutritional ketosis. That's how we evolved. When you have type 1 diabetes, where you can't control sugar or insulin, you have no insulin in response, you're going to get high levels of sugar and ketones. This is a pathological condition. Most of type 2 diabetes, these are all pathologies based on damaging oxidative phosphorylation. So what this chart does is for the first time, and we put it together because we did all the – in the paper it discusses the bioenergetics.

55:06What we're finding in cancer is that if you can get into the green zones where your blood sugar is low and your ketones are elevated, you hammer the hell out of these tumor cells because you're taking away one of their two primary fuels driving dysregulated cell growth. And as the ketones go up, the rest of your cells in the body are getting super healthy. The tumor cells can't tap into the value of a ketone because the organelle needed in the tumor cell to do that is corrupted structurally and functionally. Am I clear about that? Yes. Okay, so ketones will make you healthy, the normal cells of your body, but cannot be used to help the cancer cell because you need a good structural functional organelle to burn them.

55:59So they become marginalized. And if the ketones go up, they're actually toxic to that cell to some extent. But they're still alive. The cancer cells are now incapacitated. We showed you get rid of the abnormal inflammation. You get rid of the angiogenesis, the abnormal blood vessels. You're taking an angry tumor and making it much less angry, much less inflamed, more indolent kind of a tumor. But it's still there. It's not because the other fuel that's keeping this cancer cell going is the glutamine. Okay? So now, when you have the patient in this green zone, this is for management now, Stephen.

56:43And this is prevention is is never having to deal with what I'm talking about. If you're living in the yellow zone, the probability of getting cancer or chronic diseases is already reduced. OK, but now you have some poor guy out there is living in the red zone his whole life. He wants to manage the cancer that he has. He has to get down in the green zone and try to stay there as long as he can. But the cancer will still grow because it has access to glutamine. OK, and glutamine is always here's the bloodstream. Look, you have this much blood. Cancer needs that, so you always have a surfeit of glutamine.

57:18So you have to come in now with drugs. And the drugs, like repurposed drugs, to target the glutaminolysis. With this one here, this BMC big paper here. Okay. This paper and the new one we have with the ketogenic for the childhood high-grade glioma for kids. So once you get down here, you come in with drugs that target glutamine. I've looked at one, and that's mbendazole. Okay. How did I come to that realization? People knew that mbendazole had some therapeutic benefit about cancer, but they don't believe until you show the mechanism. That paper shows the mechanism. It targets glucose and glutamine.

57:56This one targets glucose and glutamine, the two fuels driving the dysregulated growth of the tumor. Okay. So here's the mitochondria. So it's getting the glucose and the cytoplasm from the sugar and making, and it's fermenting that. And then also the amino acid glutamine comes in. You have to block the glycolysis and the glucose, these two pathways. You have to restrict availability of glucose and glutamine together at the same time. I speak only about things that I have tested in my lab and published papers on like this. So you have to realize the cancer field doesn't understand that the cancer can't grow without glucose and glutamine and can't switch to fatty acids or ketone bodies.

58:42That's still not going to kill the cancer, though, is it? It's just going to... Yeah, we don't ever use the term cure because some of these tumors... Now, let me tell you, people like Pablo Kelly from Devon, England, he had the glioblastoma. He didn't take any radiation or chemo. He just did metabolic therapy. He lived for 10 years. He was diagnosed with an inoperable glioblastoma. They wanted to irradiate and poison him with the drugs. He said no. He was one of these naturalistic kind of guys. And he lived for 10 years, and the tumor became operable. He had four debulking surgeries on an originally described inoperable cancer, cut out four times.

59:20Because once we put the metabolic therapy, the demarcation of the tumor, whoa, there are neurosurgences. I think I can get this out. But he never got rid of it. He lived with it for 10 years, had a couple of kids. He died from a cerebral hemorrhage on the last debulking surgery. He never died from the tumor. But you're saying that the two work together in tandem? Yes. You're saying that the chemotherapy works in... Now, that's another thing. So what we do, and this is very interesting. So if you put the patient in nutritional ketosis, the ketogenic state of nutritional ketosis facilitates the delivery of drugs to the tumor cell.

59:58It actually makes, you can use lower doses of drugs and you get bigger effect. The therapeutic benefit increases with lower dosing. So you want to be in ketosis when you do these chemotherapy, radiation therapies. Yes, and then you use much lower doses. This is what we're doing in Istanbul Clinic. We're taking pancreatic cancers. These guys live in four and five years. What are we doing in advanced breast cancer and all these terminal cancers? We put them into some level of ketosis, and then you come in with the standard drugs, cisplatin, carboplatin, whatever you want to do, but you cut the dosages down big time.

1:00:33And then they have tremendous—and you put the—this is what the title of the paper is, ketogenic diet as a metabolic vehicle for enhancing therapeutic efficacy. The current body of research suggests that being in a state of ketosis can act as a helper therapy, enhancing the cancer-killing effects of chemotherapy while simultaneously protecting healthy cells. Yeah, yeah, right, right. Progressive oncologists are currently using ketogenic diets alongside standard chemo to maximize its efficacy. That's right. That's what we're doing in Istanbul. And also in Greece, we're doing those same things. So you can use this.

1:01:16When you enter a fasted or ketogenic state, your healthy cells essentially go into bunker mode. They slow their division, conserve energy, and build up their defenses. Cancer cells, however, do not have this evolutionary off switch. They continue trying to rapidly divide. When the toxic chemotherapy hits, your shielded healthy cells survive it much better, while the exposed rapidly dividing cancer cells take the full hit. Yeah. Ah, okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. In other words, you make with the tools you have work better. The problem in the field of cancer today is they're not using the tools in the correct way.

1:01:50Now, let me give you another example. If you take immunotherapies, you hear about these things, chimeric acid and T receptor, PD-1, PD-L1 inhibitors. They're called precision medicines, right? So look, they're designed to attack a molecule on the surface or stop that cell from being resistant. If you were trying to attack, and what they do oftentimes, they come at, after you've failed chemo and radiation, they then come at you with an immunotherapy. The metabolic pressure shrinks down your tumor, makes it very indolent, non-aggressive, and the rest of your body is healthy. You're not going bald.

1:02:27You're not bleeding gums. Your microbiome isn't blown to hell. So, and then you can come in with low-dose chemo, immunotherapy, because whatever left in that remaining residual mass, they may all have something in common for having survived all this, right? So now you can come in with a precision medicine and possibly resolution. I thought this was fascinating. It says chemotherapy creates massive oxidative stress, i.e. damage, inside the tumor. To repair the damage and survive, the cancer cell requires massive amounts of glucose. So if the patient is in ketosis, the tumor's glucose supply is essentially cut off.

1:03:01The cancer cell can't repair the DNA damage caused by your chemo, leading to faster tumor death. Yeah, interesting. Well, don't forget also, listen to this. And there's another thing people go in. What protects the tumor cell from chemo and radiation is the waste products of fermentation. The lactic acid and the succinic acid that are dumped out of this raging beast prevent these other therapies from working. So if you want your therapy to work, you've got to target those two fuels together at the same time. And when you do that, now this cell, the shield is off. These things are super vulnerable to even low doses of chemo and radiation.

1:03:42And the immunotherapies, look, if you have an immunotherapy, you try to attack the beast when it's at its strongest, you're not going to win. And this is what happens. You get only partial response. In the field of cancer today, they think living an extra six months is a major breakthrough. We're talking about living an extra five and six years. This is what's really important. I was doing some research to figure out if oncologists, so cancer doctors, are currently recommending the ketogenic diet. And it says the vast majority of mainstream oncologists do not recommend the ketogenic diet to their newly diagnosed patients.

1:04:18In fact, if a patient brings it up, many doctors will actively advise against it. And the reasons for that, number one, is the fear of cachexia. Cachexia, yeah. Cachexia. Cancer cachexia is a severe wasting syndrome where patients rapidly lose muscle and fat. It is a massive problem and a leading cause of mortality in cancer patients because the ketogenic diet suppresses appetite and often leads to weight loss. Oncologists are terrified that a strict keto diet will accelerate cachexia and weaken the patient. Well, that's because they have not heard what I just said with respect to the biology and biochemistry.

1:04:52Okay. Cachexia, there's two ways you can lose in cancer patients. Cachexia is the ability of the tumor cell to mobilize energy out of the muscles. It's taking the glutamine out of your muscles and feeding. This is one of the two fuels that's driving the beast is glutamine. Where are they getting the glutamine from? They're getting the glutamine not only from the bloodstream, but they dissolve your muscles as part of that, part of that process. So when you put a patient in nutritional ketosis, the weight loss is therapeutic weight loss. Cachexia is pathological weight loss. Now, the other way you can lose weight is you take a high dose of chemotherapy.

1:05:31I travel all the time. I made a rule in my life that I'll only travel with a cabin bag. The problem with this is there's not much space. And here's the solution. It is called an Exeter 1 % travel pack. And I teamed up with Exeter to make this. Typically, I can only bring some of my black shirts. And it's a trade-off of which black shirt shall I bring? How many of these do think I can get in here? So let's try 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Let's try 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. Okay, so that's 24 black t-shirts. Here's where the magic comes in. Zip it up, make sure it's nice and sealed, and then use this little contraption.

1:06:16Stick it on there. I can now take more than 20 black shirts with me which will last me three weeks so if you travel frequently and you want to get one of these so you can save more space and be away for longer go to exter.com and use code doac for 10 off our collection and i think some of the background context here is that mainstream oncology operates on the um the sort of somatic mutation therapy which is the belief that cancer is fundamentally a genetic disease driven by dna mutations and And because their training focuses on genetics, their treatments are designed to target DNA and cell division by chemoradiation-targeted genetic therapies, rather than manipulating cellular metabolism.

1:06:55And lastly, as mentioned, I think we talked about this earlier, mainstream medicine requires massive, multi-centred, double-blind, phase three clinical trials before a protocol becomes the standard of care. So dietary interventions rarely get the level of funding. So oncologists lack the institutional green light to prescribe them to patients. and they tend to say to them, eat what you can. I don't blame them. They're good. Many of them are good people. The problem is the system doesn't train them to understand the biology and biochemistry of the disease they're treating. Some of them become very resistant to this.

1:07:26They say, get angry because why wasn't I told this? Well, first of all, they're not reading these papers. You asked them about it. I never read it. Well, how are you going to know anything if you don't read the literature? Listen to this. The National Cancer Institute, the NCI, on their website. On their website says cancer is a genetic disease caused by what you just said. Okay. Well, I said, why don't they put the articles in there showing all the tumors they can't find any mutations? The somatic mutation theory says that cancer is caused by random genetic mutations. So now new sequencing of normal people like you and me are finding mutations in all these driver genes and cells in our body that aren't in dysregulated cell growth.

1:08:08So we're calling them wild-type cancers. What do you mean a wild-type cancer? You lost me. Okay. The nucleus of a tumor cell, a raging tumor cell, what's causing him, that cell, to grow? Is it the mitochondria in the cytoplasm or is it the mutations in the nucleus? Okay. So according to the somatic mutation theory, it's the mutations in the nucleus that are causing the dysregulated cell growth. You take that nucleus and put it into an enucleated normal cell. Yeah, and there's no cancer. There's no dysregulation. There must be something else. Then you take the nucleus of the normal cell and put it into the cytoplasm of a tumor cell, and you get dysregulated cell growth.

1:08:48So it must be something other than the nucleus. Yes, the mitochondria. Interestingly, it says. So mitochondria are controlling our destiny. And the field of cancer has yet to understand it, accept it, and then say, well, we can't do any of this until we double line cross over. That's just, what do you mean? The science is telling us this. That's your way of protecting a broken system. Are you pissed off about this? Because you do seem pissed off about this. Well, who wouldn't be? Stephen, there's 1 ,700 people a day in this country dying from cancer. I don't know the English. Listen, that comes out to 70 an hour and it gets worse every single year.

1:09:28And the last time I was on the show, you guys used some old data. Look it up today. It's 2026. American Cancer Society says this year in 2026, we will have 626 ,000 souls leave the planet from cancer. Okay. This 2026. And every year it gets worse. So when you hear all the breakthroughs, we have television ads in Boston for the cancer say breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough. All these different, they come on. And all we do is get more dead cancer patients. Raise money for cancer. Where's the accountability for all the money you're raising? When is the people going to wake up? You don't make someone healthy by irradiating and poisoning them.

1:10:16You've got to understand the biology and the biochemistry of the disease. I have the concepts and the proofs, but the physician who works with the patient on a clinic basis. They're the ones that must apply this to the clinic. So there's two different things here. There's the hard science that's the bedrock for this. And then there's the clinical person who has the practice that practice does that. Together, you get great success or better. I say success better than anything that's out there today. The American Cancer Society recently released its latest projections for 25 and 26. And the data paints a fascinating dual-sided picture.

1:10:50More people are getting diagnosed with cancer. New cases. The ACS projects over 2.11 million new cancer diagnoses in 2026. This translates roughly to 5 ,800 new cases every single day. Approximately 626 ,000 Americans are expected to die from cancer in 2026. Right. About 1 ,700 deaths per day. Lung cancer remains the leading cause of cancer death projected to cause more fatalities than colorectal and pancreatic cancers combined. I also just wanted to pick a whole point we were talking about earlier, which is about the metabolic approach to cancers. It says here, and this is going to the point about people telling you to just eat whatever you want while you're managing cancer, because the primary goal of the hospital dietitian is to prevent weight loss during brutal chemotherapy regimes, patients are frequently told to eat whatever they can and eat whatever they can keep down.

1:11:45it is incredibly common for cancer patients to be handed meal replacement shakes, which are often packed with corn syrups and refined sugars, ice cream, and high-carbohydrate comfort foods, just to keep their calorific intake up. From a metabolic perspective, this is a tragedy. While it keeps weight on the patient, it simultaneously floods the bloodstream with glucose and insulin, directly feeding the tumour. And while keto is not the standard of care, the landscape is beginning to slowly shift. There is a growing minority of integrative oncologists and specialized metabolic clinicians worldwide that actively prescribe therapeutic ketosis alongside conventional treatments.

1:12:23Those doctors use the keto diet and fasting protocols to protect healthy cells and sanitize tumors before administering lower, more targeted doses of chemo. Yeah, that's what we developed. That's our plan. That's what we're doing. Okay. We do that because we understand the biology and biochemistry. And that's why we We're developing the new society called MORE, the MORE Alliance. Metabolic oncology research and education. This is bringing together what you just mentioned there in a logical approach to manage cancer. This is a logical approach based on the hard science of decades of research, initiated originally by Otto Warburg and then continued by our group at Boston College.

1:13:06The American Cancer Society says that breast cancer is increasing, prostate cancer is increasing, pancreatic cancer, melanoma, HPV-associated oral cancers are steadily increasing in the incidence of severe cancers. Yeah. There has been no major advance in managing glioblastoma in 100 years. What's glioblastoma? That's the deadly brain cancer, okay? That killed Teddy Kennedy from Massachusetts, Senator Kennedy, John McCain, President Biden's son, Beau Biden. It's killed a lot of various people, and it's considered a death sentence. No, no, no, no. We're keeping these guys alive. Okay, we're not saying we cure the cancer, but we can certainly keep them alive a lot longer.

1:13:47Pancreatic cancer, always considered so bad. We're getting very excellent results in managing pancreatic cancer using metabolic therapies. We know what to do, and we know how to do it. I have clinicians that work with me, dieticians that know how to manage cancer effectively. We can do it right now, today. If someone were to say, Seyfried, get your group together. Let me see what you can do. I will put up our metabolic therapy against any trial from any of these pharmaceutical companies. We can keep these people alive a hell of a lot longer to participate in our society. We're not doing that. If you were made president today, of the United States?

1:14:25Of the United States. Don't go there. I'm going to go there. Those guys are not, let's put it this way, they're not scientifically literate. I would have to be. Yeah, right. Professor Thomas Every, you're now president of the United States. And your primary objective is to bring down this 1 ,700 Americans that are going to get cancer a day. Is it get cancer or die from cancer? No, they die from cancer. Okay. 1 ,700 a day dying from cancer in the United States. 70 an hour. Think about it. You can put in place policies to stop this happening and to also help people manage it better. What is it you do?

1:15:05First of all, we wouldn't throw out everything. Just like I said, we have a strategy now to manage cancer effectively. Okay, so you also want to prevent it. We're not going to get rid of the drugs that are making billions and billions of dollars. We're just going to use them at lower doses, just in a different amount. But we also want to prevent it in the first place. Well, preventing it, that comes back to our chart. I'm going to write down the manifesto. So what do we do to prevent these 71 people an hour dying of cancer? Well, that has to come from government policies. Okay. You just got promotion.

1:15:33You're now the king of the United States. So you don't even need to ask anybody. What do you do to prevent the 71 people a day dying of cancer? It's going to be education. Education number one. Education number one. Okay. You have to let people know that those, and now let me tell you another thing that's really important. It should not be any government or government official telling anyone what they should or should not eat. Okay? The power of this chart is personal. You're emboldening the patient. They have to know. We're not going to tell somebody, oh, if you continue to eat bad food, you're going to have high risk.

1:16:14And that person, I don't care. I'll smoke cigarettes. Well, the government's not going to come into this guy's house and take away the bad food. No, no, no, no. That should never happen. Those foods are there because they give us pleasure. But they should be, the knowledgeable person would be to say, I like to have it every now and then, but I can't live in that environment. And the other thing we do terribly in this country, the poor people in these food deserts where you only get crap food, and there's a tragedy in itself. To go to Whole Foods where they have the expensive ribeyes and all this stuff, that's much more expensive.

1:16:51A lot of people can't afford the kinds of foods that will put them in these better healthy zones. So we're going to make healthy food more cost-effective, cheaper? Well, those are easy words to say, but in practicality, it's not. What kinds of foods should people be eating? Well, I think they should just try to avoid the highly processed carbs. Okay, listen to this. And exercise. There's a lot of things we can do that would mitigate the inflammatory conditions put on this chart. The goal here is we know what keeps us healthy. It's the efficiency of that organelle. We want to do everything possible to keep that organelle healthy.

1:17:32We will reduce dementia. We will reduce diabetes. We will reduce obesity. And they say, well, GLP, I don't want to do it. And human beings are the kind that I want a quick fix for everything, right? A Zempeg. How about some a Zempeg? Is this, what is this, GLP? Yeah, GLP-1. Okay. We don't, you know, first of all, we haven't done any research yet to know where a GLP would put you on the chart. We do know one thing, it lowers blood sugar. How high of a level would it bring to ketone? Because it's the ketones that keep the organelle healthy. So I'm lowering blood sugar, but am I raising the ketones that enhance the bioenergetic efficiency of the organelle?

1:18:11I don't know what number, and it hasn't been done yet. I haven't seen any papers coming out. Okay, so we'll keep the Zenpec off the table, but you're saying exercise number three. So I've got education, kill the food deserts so people can get healthy food. Yeah. Stay away from the ultra-processed stuff. Number three, exercise. We're going to give everybody free gym memberships and whatever else they need. Reduce stress, emotional stress. You've got to do that. There's a lot of ways, music therapy. There's a lot of different ways you can reduce stress. And friends, happiness, all of those reduce stress.

1:18:42So I had a guy from Korea. I think it was Japan or Korea. We did a big meeting one time. And he didn't tell me what to do. He says, you want to get cancer. If your job and if your goal in life is to get cancer, you got to eat crap food all the time. You have to have terrible sleep. Make sure you never unass the couch, sit in front of the TV all day, look at doom scrolling, do all that kind of stuff. Make sure you never exercise. and make sure you don't have any friends or be happy. You're on the fast track for not only cancer, but all these other chronic diseases. So that's what I just said. You need to not do that.

1:19:21You're doing a great job. There's not many people are going to be measuring their GKI every day, but there are people who love to measure that kind of stuff. Now, I'll tell you another thing. So they put these things on your arm, these continuous sugar monitors. They're making continuous glucose ketone monitors. So apps are coming out now, believe me. There's apps I have, Lucas Liu and some others are making these apps in my lab. And you can take your cell phone and photograph a particular food item. And the food item, immediately you put the food item on the chart so you'll know eating that will give you what zone you'll be in if you eat it.

1:20:02So it's really interesting. And these things are coming. We're using AI to, so, but it's purely patient empowerment. Okay. The patient themselves, the person themselves make the choices. No government president or king or whatever you want to say should ever tell people what and how they should eat. The patients should be familiar with this and have the knowledge to know I'm going to test what I think. So people say to me all the time, well, just tell us what you can eat. That's all they say to me. Okay, eat whatever you want. You figure out where on the chart you're going to be, and then you'll know.

1:20:39So people say, well, I can't eat a ketogenic diet. Well, our group in Greece, now you tell me, they got the brain cancer tremendous success in keeping brain glioblastoma guys alive. What was the diet? It was a calorie-restricted Mediterranean diet. Salmon, sardines, olive oil, avocado, and exercise. Is that like, oh, man, that's the worst diet. What about the carnivore diet? What about the ribeye with a little saucepanese on top of it? This keeps your blood sugar low and elevates your ketone. If you want to do it with plants, everything, you've got fish, plants, you've got vegans and all these kind of people.

1:21:19This is a bioenergetic roadmap to health. Let me just give some specifics. This is amazing. What about high fructose corn syrups and refinery? Man, that's the worst kind of crap. You don't take that. What about industrial seed oils? Well, you know, people talk about seed oils. Canola and soybean oils. Yeah, I don't know. And there's another thing too. You and I are different. We have an individual metabolism. Age, race, sex, religion, all kinds of stuff determine what and how you live. And I can't be sure what you eat, what I eat, or what you exercise, where it's going to put us on the chart. Synthetic pesticides.

1:21:59I was reading here that it increases the chance of lymphoma by staggering 41%. They all damage the oxidative phosphorylation, putting the cell at risk for compensatory fermentation, dysregulated cell growth. The problem, the field doesn't understand what I'm saying with respect to the origin of cancer, how it happens mechanistically, how this organelle controls the life of the cell. They don't know enough about the biology and biochemistry of the mitochondria. You want to get guys on here like Nick Lane from England. I mean, these guys like Doug Wallace and some of these guys, they're mitochondrial biologists.

1:22:37They understand this kind of stuff. I want to give people actionable things that they can think about. So that's why I was asking you this question about you becoming king. Fasting protocols. What do you think of intermittent fasting? Let me talk about that just briefly. Do you ever try it? Yeah. What do you think? You liked it? It depends how long you're talking about. Okay, let's go a week. No, I've not fasted for a week before. Okay. You know what is the call of the wall? This guy, he just sent me his book. It's coming out. Very nice guy. Varel Simak. He said, people share things with me. The wall is after about three days of not eating, just drinking water.

1:23:13You hit this wall and it's like, oh man, I'm just, I can't deal with it anymore. It's just a terrible feeling in my body. I can't sleep at night. I got the jimmy legs. I got all kinds of problems. Screw it. I'm not doing this. He found out if you sip just tiny amounts of a grape juice, you can get through the wall. What we do for the cancer patients in the way we design our clinical procedures, which my clinical friends, we do a zero carb diet for about a week while the body is readjusting, bringing them out of the red zone, getting into the yellow zone. You can't believe the power of glucose as an addictive drug on the brain.

1:23:47It's unbelievable. It's like cocaine. And you know that when you start shaking and you go. So, but if you don't eat carbs and just eat meat or whatever to keep you in a low GKI, then when you jump off to the water-only fasting, it's much less traumatic to the brain. You've gone through the wall of the gate, so to speak. So once you know how to get through the gate, you make this whole process a lot easier. And that helps people enormously, especially those people that want to get rid of their chronic disease, okay? Because, or some, you know, we have a lot of people out there that just like to do all this stuff.

1:24:21You know, you ever get these people that go overboard on everything. But, you know, right now we have an obesity, chronic disease, cancer epidemic. All of these epidemics are the result of an abuse of that organelle in one way or another. And we have a plan to mitigate that abuse. And at least people haven't, at least they're empowered to do it with the help of knowledgeable physicians. I want to just keep on this point of actionable feedback. So Dr. Walter Longos, his extensive research clinical trials prove that fasting-mimicking diets drastically lower IGF-1, which triggers cellular autophagy, and actually makes standard cancer therapies up to three times more effective by removing the metabolic shield of cancer cells.

1:25:03Yeah, which is the waste products of glucose, which is the lactic acid and the succinic acid. That all goes down. Would you recommend, again, if you're king, would you recommend that every— I would never recommend any. I have to just give them the knowledge. Then the person has to make the decision themselves. Do you think it could be beneficial? Of course. If you were king to have everybody wear a CGM, one of those continuous glucose monitors, at least once? No. Never? No. I think if you have cancer and you really want to stay in this green zone to know, right? Listen, I was down in Mexico not long ago.

1:25:37I was talking to one of the head physicians down there. He wore one of these things, right? He said, every time I wanted to go out and have a party, have a good time, this damn thing would be beeping. So what are you? Ripped it off and threw it in the trash. So you don't want somebody barking in your ear when you're having a good time. That's why what you're doing right now with this, you're choosing to prick your finger. You're the one making that decision. There's not something on your arm saying, Stephen, don't do that. Don't do that. But you know what? It was useful to wear it once or twice.

1:26:06because it even, I suddenly realized that things I put in my mouth had an impact on my blood sugar, on my blood, which was, and also I realized that it had an impact in 10 minutes. Yeah, oh, fast. And then also when my blood sugar came back down and crashed, I thought, oh gosh, I feel, I could suddenly pair my behavior to my feelings. Yes, well, that, now, I've seen that. And not only that, Andrew Scarborough from England, who's been doing this for either stage three big glioma. He's like 15 years out. He's done this so many times with the finger prick and all this. He knows that already when his body is in these zones from the feeling that you just described.

1:26:47But for the people at the beginning and who are given a terminal diagnosis, they want to get into these green zones and they want to use the things that are going to keep them alive on the planet for a longer period of time with a higher quality of life. That is important. That thing on your arm can help you stay in that zone until you have this thing managed, at which time you can choose when to do that. So there's flexibility in this whole process. It's not one, like for example, we have the standard of care, which is written in granite for crying out loud. They get all, if you do anything different from the standard of care, you could lose your license as a physician.

1:27:23Metabolic therapy is patient driven. It's driven on the patient. What about hyperbaric oxygen? There was a study in 2013 that demonstrated that while a ketogenic diet alone significantly slowed tumor growth in systemic metastatic cancer mouse models, combining the diet with hyperbaric oxygen therapy elicited a profound synergetic decrease in tumor growth and drastically increased survival times. Yeah, we published that paper with Dominic D 'Agostino. So, listen, hyperbaric oxygen will create oxidative stress in cells that do not have efficient oxidative phosphorylation. Ah, cancer cells. Cancer cells.

1:28:00So you can kill cancer cells by oxidative stress by irradiating or poisoning them, or you can put a patient in nutritional ketosis and then put them in hyperbaric oxygen, and the cancer cells are selectively killed. When you irradiate somebody, you're damaging the whole body with all kinds of stuff. And there's another thing. Stephen, you've got to listen to this, and you listen carefully. When you go to treat these standard of care, when you use standard of care, radiation, chemo, whatever they give you. immunotherapies or whatever. So the patient comes in and he says, I've been really working hard on this.

1:28:33The doctor says, oh, no, that doesn't work, right? Gives you some radiation or gives you, you're flying up into the red zone. The treatment itself puts so much stress on the body that the body itself starts going. You go into the red zone from the very treatments that you're giving to the patient, which is strengthening the tumor cells. You're not against chemotherapy, though, are you? No, I'm positive about it, But it has to be used in the right context. It has to be used when your body is in this state of nutrition. And you can use low doses so you don't force the tumor cell to become even more resistant to the treatment.

1:29:10The next thing, which is actionable, is what you talked about earlier, which is these microplastics and forever chemicals. In late 2023, the International Agency of Research on Cancer officially upgraded these forever chemicals, which are used in nonstick pans and food packaging, to a grade one carcinogen. in humans, cancer-causing in humans, based on strong mechanistic evidence that it induces epigenetic, which is gene alterations, and suppresses the immune system. So you'd ban the forever chemicals. Okay. This is a beautiful paper. I went back and I took what all of Otto Warburg meticulously went through all of his work, showed where he was absolutely correct and where he just didn't have the new information that would make him.

1:29:49I talked about the forever chemicals, microplastics. Guess what? They damage the organelle. They get into the air brake. They cause ROS and damage. It reduced the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation, causing a compensatory increase in the utilization of glucose and glutamine and dysregulated cell growth. Everything comes back to this organelle. All chronic diseases and cancer are the result of damage to this organelle. That's why having this little thing here is so important. It's a great prop. I ought to get one for my class. You can keep it. The next thing is purifying the water supply. Heavy metals are found in local water supplies to run off and ultimately are carcinogenic in some cases.

1:30:35The IARC classifies arsenic and carcadium as group on carcinogenics, and they're frequently found in unfiltered public water infrastructure. So you clean out the water supply as well. Yeah. You know, all this stuff is coming into our water supplies, people flushing down all these chemicals which then leach back into the water supply. And every one of the chemicals that we have looked at that has been linked to oncology or dysregulated cell growth all damage the oxidative phosphorylation chronically. So we're bringing the entire focus back to things. What can I do to keep this organelle healthy?

1:31:14even if I'm exposed to these chemicals, if I can get into these zones like you're trying to do. So even if you are exposed to these, this organelle has an incredible healing power in itself. What is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have talked about, Professor Thomas? Well, I mean, you've covered a lot. One of the things I want to talk about is metastasis. What's that? That's the spread of the tumor throughout the body. Okay. So if you were to have a cancer that's just localized in one spot. You know, the probability of developing a therapy that would be long-term is highly increased.

1:31:51The problem that kills people is the spread. So if the tumor is in the breast and it spreads to the liver and the lungs and the brain, you know, you've got a problem. Lung cancer spreads to the brain, the liver. Most of these cancers that spread to the brain or other organs become difficult, and that's why you use systemic chemotherapy. You're trying to stop. What we have found is that you have a stem cell. People love stem cells. If you ever hear the term stem cell tumor, wow, stem cell tumor. Stem cell tumors cannot metastasize. How do I know? Because I had stem cell tumors diagnosed as stem cell tumors with stem cell markers.

1:32:28I've grown them. They grow very angry. They get a lot of blood vessels, but they can't spread. Okay. How do you get spreading tumor cells in your body? The immune system comes in, recognizes that as an unhealed wound, and then fuses with the stem cells. And then you have these hybrid cells. They are programmed to move around your body. So they are a macrophage tumor cell hybrid. And they're very hard to kill. But we found they're remarkably sensitive. They're glutamine-driven. So we know they're glutamine-driven, and they need the glucose. And that's why metabolic therapy done the right way can nail those metastatic cancer cells, purging them.

1:33:12With a little bit of immunotherapy to go along with it, you might be able to get what we call resolution. Don't forget, my colleagues and I, Dom DiAgostino, Joe Maroon, we built the press pulse therapeutic strategy. I mentioned that on your previous show. That's the way you press down the glucose of the tumor and then you pulse to kill the glutamine, which will target the metastatic cancer cells, enhancing the health and vitality of the organs already infiltrated by the tumor. I looked on our previous conversation, Professor Thomas, and it's quite heartbreaking because the comments sections are all people that are either struggling themselves with cancer or a loved one of theirs.

1:33:52Their wife, their husband has just been diagnosed with cancer. Is there anything for those people that have clicked on this video? Because I imagine they are in the millions. Yeah, the millions. That you want them to hear. Well, the thing of it is, is why, well, this is a bigger issue. When you have the science and you have the strategy to manage cancer effectively with minimal toxicity, not to say we can cure, but to say we can manage it, why is it not being done? That's the question. But to them, to them who've tuned in. Okay. So these kinds of conversations that we have are allowing the populations to realize that their loved ones do not need to be sacrificed for the good of industries that are generally considered profitable.

1:34:43In other words, the profitability of the industries are based on your sickness. And a lot of those comments came, oh, you can't do anything. Yes, you can do something about it. When you're armed with the knowledge and people ignore the knowledge, then there's a problem. Do people need to sort of self-advocate to some degree? I think so. With care providers? Yeah, I think that's a very delicate question. Yeah. The oncologist never heard of this stuff. They have never read these papers. They were never trained in medical school to know the biology and biochemistry of cancer. It was told to be a genetic disease.

1:35:20Theories are so important in science. For 1 ,800 years, people thought the work of Aristotle, his comments, and the mathematics of Claudius Talami said that the Earth was the center of the solar system and all the planets and sun revolved around the Earth, the geocentric theory. Right? Copernicus struggled with the Ptolemy mathematics and realized that if he put the sun in the center of the solar system and made Earth just another planet, a lot of the mathematics made sense. Kepler comes in and says, these aren't circles, they're ellipticals. Galileo takes the telescope, sees the moons of Jupiter, and was able to look at and quantify where, predict where planets would be in a certain period of time.

1:36:05Then they took poor Giordano Bruno. You know about this guy, Bruno? Oh, Stephen, you've got to know Bruno. Your job is to know about the poor Bruno, who was burned alive by the Catholic Church for challenging the geocentric theory. And he became a martyr of science. So when you have established power structure, whether it's a religion or whether it's an industry or whatever, challenging that can be very, very hazardous. Has it been hazardous for you? Listen, no. I mean, I do what I do because I like. I just collect more and more data to support. Hazardous for me would be getting blindsided. Blindsided would be somebody coming at me with a piece of new data that I have never considered.

1:36:45I don't sleep. I think about this stuff all the time to avoid the blindside. My students are on the alert for any paper that comes out that says cancer. Oh, cancer cells can burn fatty acids in ketone bodies. Oh, really? Let's go back through and dissect out their control experiments. And you find that every case there was always some glucose and glutamine in the media making it look like the fatty acids. So that's what bothers me. What bothers me is getting hit with a piece of data that undermines what our knowledge base is. And so far, we haven't had that. Okay, we're standing on the shoulders of Otto Warburg, a giant in the field of biochemistry.

1:37:21He was thrown under the bus when everybody thought cancer was a genetic disease. This paper goes back and shows exactly where Warburg made his mistakes and where we have rectified some of that, bringing the whole field back on where it should be. It is a mitochondrial metabolic disorder, and we can account for all of the phenotypes and characteristics of that disease knowing that. Now, with that knowledge, logical people and people interested in helping others will take advantage of that. We're not throwing out all these toxic chemicals. We're learning how to use them in a different way, and that's where the success is going to come.

1:37:57So let's conclude with an actionable takeaway for people who are suffering themselves with cancers or have someone in their family right now that is suffering from cancers. What is the actionable takeaway? Well, I think the actionable takeaway, once this paper comes out, they can start taking action if they are motivated enough. They can read about this. They can read about it and then try, just like you're doing, no different, get into these zones and then work with their oncologists, knowledgeable people to treat them with standards of care as long as they can remain. And then we do non-invasive imaging, PET scans, MRIs.

1:38:36Okay, so specifically what you're saying is this paper, I will link it below in the comment section for anyone that wants to read it. This graph will be on the screen throughout this episode anyway, so people can screenshot it if they want to have a look. And the way that they test what their GKI index is, is they can buy one of these Keto Mojo things, which you can get on Amazon for$20,$30. You prick your finger. It gives you the glucose reading. You divide it by 18. No, no. The new machines have the button. So even the people only have to do that. Okay, fine. And as you can see on here, this is an interesting way to sort of increase your management, improve your management of some of these.

1:39:14Yeah. And then there's a challenge to get into those zones. You know, I'm not saying this is easy stuff. GLP-1 inhibitor, man, that's a hell of a lot easier than doing this. And I should probably say always consult with a medical professional. Yeah, I think because, you know, a lot of people, they have a lot of comorbidities. They have diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension, cancer. It's not a perfectly healthy person with cancer. So before you go in to challenge that, you need to have what you look like. you might have to be adjusted in some way. That's why the physicians that are working with this can do all that.

1:39:55I'm not in the clinical thing. And there are some people who respond poorly to the ketogenic diet as the high states of ketosis. Because I've received DMs before from a woman who said, my husband did ketosis and he collapsed unconscious. He took him to the hospital. He had some comorbidity. Yeah. The other thing too is you got to be, some people have carnitine deficiencies. Carnitines prevents fatty acids from being made into ketone bodies. So carnitine supplementation can help them. But you need a physician to know this. We have a closing tradition where the last guest leader question for the next.

1:40:27And the question left for you is on the subject of energy. What in your life has brought you the most energy? And what was the biggest energy drain you've ever experienced? This is bringing me the biggest energy. This. Well, not this, the whole concept. The idea that you have found Mother Nature has allowed you to look into the depths of what we consider the biology and biochemistry of how bodies work. And knowing how to take that and apply it to people that are suffering from all these different chronic diseases and giving them the opportunity to change that. Because before that, it was mysterious.

1:41:11Oh, I'm in keto. What's your GKI? I don't know. Well, now you have a quantitative opportunity. That gets us. So we have a lot of evidence. I think people should feel encouraged. I think we have given hope to the hopeless. And I think that's empowering. And the goal here is not to make a billion dollars. It's just to know that you've kept all these poor souls alive longer than they were projected to be. And I think there's power. And that keeps us going. because when we see more and more people coming to me, I get emails back from people three or four years ago. And I said, gee, I thought you were a goner.

1:41:46And he says, oh, I'm doing really well. Just came back from a vacation with my wife. Well, that's empowering. I said, well, that's good. And don't forget, Stephen, all of our research money comes from private foundations and philanthropy. So is that a way that people can help? Yeah. And where do they go to help? Oh, Travis Christopherson's foundation. So in my papers, we have the foundations that support our work. private foundations. And there are occasionally, yes, please link. There are occasionally people, I know, and when I give kits of information to people, I say, please consider making a donation only if it works for you.

1:42:23Don't charge them anything or ask them to pay something if it's not going to help them. If you were told to be dead in six months and six years later you're alive, maybe you throw us a few shekels into the foundation supporting our work. I'll link that foundation below in the comments section. Yeah, we have a couple on breast cancer, on general support on the metabolic approach that we have. So we have a lot going. We're very excited. You can see all the papers we've published. And it's not like some of these are in top journals. Some of them are in new journals. But the issue is we're publishing this.

1:43:00My thing is, you know, great, great, great respect for science and doctors in the medical profession. Go get your information. Speak to a medical provider. There's so many tools out there now. Go and check for yourself. Yeah, well, I think in the oncology field, that's where we have this vast wasteland of misinformation or misunderstanding. Let's put it that way. They don't understand these concepts where, you know, people who have done heart work and bone work and replacements, those people are at the state of the art with this kind of stuff. Well, the last conversation we had, it's reached about 15 million people.

1:43:27So on YouTube, it's got 10 million views. And then across audio platforms, it's got another five or so million views. And when I read through the comment sections, it's just so heartening. for two reasons. One is you're giving people tools and science that they can think about and research themselves and speak to their medical practitioner about. But also, it actually just creates a community of people in the comment section where, you know, this is a community of people that are searching for hope. And as some of them read through the comment sections, they actually commented saying it was so nice to speak to other people in the comment sections about what I'm going through and how it feels from an emotional level.

1:44:01So this is something I actually wanted to say in this episode was, if you're listening to this conversation now you've gotten to this point do you feel free to go into the comment section and just offer some support and some love to other people um who are struggling because you know it can be a very lonely experience the minute you find out you've got a diagnosis and off you go into the internet into podcasts into ai to try and figure out what you can do so yeah do share things that have helped you point at different resources that are rigorous and offer emotional support to those that are in the comment section that would be a wonderful thing thomas thank you so much for all that you do.

1:44:34You're an absolute worrier for pushing the science into the world and for fighting for these people that don't have the tools. And I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a comment section quite like it in terms of the gratitude that people have for the work that you're doing. It is remarkable work. Long may you continue to do it. Well, thank you very much. And you play a very important part on this because this information is not disseminated to the population. And it's the population of people that will eventually make the change. So they're going to want this, especially when we keep publishing more and more case reports of successful cases.

1:45:08And the system will change. And we just have to modify what we have to make it better. And I think that's what keeps us going. So I have no plans of stopping this anytime soon. My students are all excited about this. They're learning about it at Boston College. So this is a big emphasis that we have and we continue to do it. Again, scientific literacy is so important for how you navigate through life. And thank you very much for your show, and we'll keep pushing this as hard as we can. Thank you.

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