Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

9 May 2025 · 26 min

Ask about this episode

Ask anything about it. ChatGPT or Claude reads this page and answers with the times it was said.

Connect VO and ask about every podcast you hear, including the moments you saved. Add to ChatGPT · Add to Claude

In short

Podcast Summary: The Diary Of A CEO - Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!

Episode Overview In this episode, Steven Bartlett interviews Dr. Robert Lustig, who reveals the misleading nature of "sugar-free" and "zero sugar" labels in the food industry. Dr. Lustig discusses the impacts of sugar and artificial sweeteners on health, emphasizing that "zero sugar" does not equate to "no damage" and exposes how the food industry contributes to the obesity crisis and chronic diseases.

Key Concepts and Discussions

The Nature of Sugar

  • Definition: Dietary sugar (sucrose) consists of glucose and fructose.
  • Metabolism:
  • Glucose: Essential for energy; every cell utilizes it.
  • Fructose: Not essential; excessive intake can be toxic.
  • Daily Limits:
  • Recommended maximum intake of fructose is around 12 grams (approximately 6 teaspoons) for adults and 4-6 grams for children.
  • Average consumption significantly exceeds recommended limits, leading to health issues.

Misleading Food Industry Claims

  • Hidden Sugars: Many processed foods contain added sugars, often unrecognized by consumers.
  • Labeling Issues:
  • Terms like "no added sugar" can be misleading, as items may still contain sugars in other forms (e.g., fruit purees).
  • Common Mislabeling: 70% of items in grocery stores are misbranded or misleading.

Health Consequences of Sugar and Sweeteners

  • Obesity and Diabetes:
  • Higher sugar intake correlates with increased rates of diabetes.
  • Diet sodas, often perceived as healthier, can still trigger insulin responses, contributing to health risks.
  • Systematic Health Impacts:
  • Increased sugar consumption linked to chronic diseases, including diabetes, heart disease, and certain cancers.

Corporate Influence on Health Research

  • Historical Manipulation: The sugar industry has a history of influencing research to downplay the risks associated with sugar consumption.
  • Corporate Interference: Documents reveal attempts to redirect funding away from nutritional research toward less impactful studies.

Recommendations for Consumers

  • Eat Real Food: Prioritize whole foods over processed alternatives.
  • Avoid Added Sugars: Be cautious of hidden sugars in seemingly healthy options.
  • Awareness: Understand that food industry marketing often emphasizes health claims that may not reflect true nutritional value.

Key Takeaways

  • Fructose vs. Glucose: Not all sugars are equal; understanding the differences is crucial for making informed dietary choices.
  • Health Impact: Excessive sugar consumption has serious implications for public health, particularly in vulnerable populations such as children.
  • Industry Accountability: The food industry must be held accountable for misleading health claims and the resultant public health crises.
  • Personal Responsibility: Individuals should educate themselves about the food they consume and advocate for healthier choices.

Conclusion This episode sheds light on the deceptive practices within the food industry regarding sugar and its substitutes. Dr. Lustig's insights encourage listeners to be more discerning about their food choices and raise awareness about the health implications of sugar consumption. The discussion serves as a rallying call for public health advocacy and personal responsibility in dietary decisions.

[Listen to the full episode here](https://g2ul0.app.link/KhJ5MG5BcTb) on Spotify or [Apple](https://g2ul0.app.link/Drk2qW9BcTb).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.
Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:01The Direvcio's brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive .com after this episode to see if you could save. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary, not available in all states. Is sugar poison? Sugar is like alcohol. So is alcohol poison?

0:38Depends on the dose. Right? The dose determines the poison. Paracelsus 1537. We have an innate capacity to metabolize alcohol. And if we stay below that, it doesn't do too much damage. If we go above it, different story. Same thing with sugar. Same thing with this molecule, the sweet molecule, fructose. And the reason is because fructose and alcohol are metabolized virtually identically. What's the difference between sugar and fructose? So sugar, dietary sugar, the sweet stuff, the crystals, the stuff you put in your coffee. The stuff I've got over here. Yeah, like that stuff. Yeah, that stuff.

1:22The five pound bag right there. That's called sucrose. Okay, this is sucrose. This is sucrose. Now sucrose is two molecules bound together. One molecule called glucose. One molecule called fructose. They are not the same. Now the food insurance, you will tell you they are the same. They are not the same. The reason they tell you they are the same is because that's the way they swage their own culpability for what they've done to the food. But they are not the same. They will say, sugar is a sugar, a calories, a calorie. A glucose and fructose both have four calories per gram. Why should you care?

2:02Oh, you care a lot. You care a whole lot. Now glucose is the energy life. Every cell on the planet burns glucose for energy. Glucose is so important that if you don't consume it, your body makes it. Okay. The Inuit had no carbohydrate. They had ice. They had whale blubber. They still have a serum glucose level. Inuit so the people that live in the North Pole since that's right. Yeah, they've formerly known as Eskimos. But they didn't have any carbohydrate. They ran off fat. But they still had a serum glucose level because your brain runs on glucose. They can also run on ketones too. But your brain runs on glucose.

2:45My brain runs on glucose. And you need glucose because certain hormones and certain proteins in the body require glycosylation in order to be effective. An example, LHNFSH, when you don't have glycosylation of LHNFSH, the hormones that tell your testicle and your overeatowork, you are infertile. It's that simple. So survival of the species says, you need some glucose. But if you're not consuming it, you'll still get it because your body will make it. You will make it out of amino acids. It will make it out of fat. Gluconia genesis is called. So glucose is essential. It's just not essential to eat.

3:32Fructose, on the other hand, the sweet molecule in that bag, which is sort of one of the two parts of the grain of sugar that I see. That's right. That's one part of it is fructose. That's right. It's the other half. Right. It's the evil twin, if you will. What are the two halves again? Glucose? Yeah. Fructose. Down together. I need glucose to live. My body will figure that out. Fructose. Do I need this? You not only do not need it, but in high dose, it's toxic. Now, your liver has the innate ability to metabolize a small amount. On the order of about six to nine teaspoons per day of dietary sugar, so half of that being fructose.

4:16So about 12 grams. Your liver can manage about 12 grams of fructose a day. In the same way, it can manage about 12 grams of alcohol per day without showing any signs of any metabolic derangement. But if you go above that, now you get problems. Are we above that? Oh, we are so above that. We are at 50 grams of fructose per day, 100 grams of sugar per day. We're supposed to be at 25. We are at 100. We are quadruple our limit. And also, just because grams are quite hard to wrap the head around, right? OK. So if I was to get a tablespoon, what do teaspoons? A teaspoon. How many teaspoons of sugar would I have to consume to get to that level of fructose?

5:05Because I say this in part because most of us don't realize that we're consuming sugar. That's right. Because it's hidden in all of the food. That's exactly right. We don't even know. We say, oh, I never even add sugar to my coffee. Therefore, my sugar consumption is zero. Wrong. Ah. That is not true. OK. Because it is hidden in plain sight. In virtually every process food in the entire grocery store. For 70, 3 % of all of the items in the American grocery store and in the British grocery store are spiked with added sugar by the food industry for its purposes, not for yours. Because they know when they added you by more.

5:47And how much does that look like in teaspoons, then? The upper limit is about six teaspoons of added sugar per day. It's the allowance. The allowance. The record, the upper limit. OK. The recommended allowance is lower than that. Yeah. OK. But the upper limit is about 16 spoons of added sugar per day. So we have an innate capacity to metabolize about 12 grams of fructose per day. By the way, that's for adults. For children, it's one third of that. Four grams of fructose per day. OK. Four to six. So we're talking very little. Ton very little. But when you think about, for instance, kid in America, 29 % of kids in America consume the National School Breakfast Program breakfast in school.

6:41OK. 29%. So what is the National School Breakfast Program breakfast? It's a bowl of fruit loops and a glass of orange juice. That is 41 grams of sugar. The upper limit for children in terms of their metabolism is 12 grams per day. They got 41 grams and it's just breakfast. What do you think that's going to do? Now if a calorie were a calorie and if glucose and fructose were the same, then you say, well, you've got to get your calorie somewhere. But because fructose is not glucose, because fructose is more like alcohol, because fructose's toxicity has nothing to do with its calories. That is a huge overdose and it has metabolic complications, systemic health complications.

7:38It has a mental health complications. Sounds like a bit of a scandal. When I hear that these kids, almost 30 % of kids are getting, you know, almost, you know, through three to four times, they're recommended daily allowance of sugar from school and that it's having these sort of really adverse consequences on us. And the studies are there to prove that the consequences are very real. It sounds like a scandal in the sense that nobody's doing something about it. Oh, well, yes. That way it is. The point is that the food industry is very powerful and they have, you know, swept virtually every aspect of this under the rug for 40 to 50 years.

8:23They knew back in the 1960s that sugar was a problem, but they paid off scientists to say it wasn't. And we actually have the documents from the food industry. They live at the UCSF Food Industry documents library and we are doing research on corporate interference in health. What did these documents show? They show that in 1965, the sugar industry came to two Harvard School of Public Health scientists, the head of the Department of Nutrition, Fred Stair, and his associate Mark Higgs, who became the head of the USDA five years later and paid them $50 ,000 in today's money to produce two articles for the New England Journal saying saturated fat was the bad guy and that sugar was exonerated.

9:22And they did it. And they did it. That's just one thing they did. They also infiltrated the National Institute of Dental Research and IDR, their study sections and their executive committee to take money away from nutrition research for dental health and put it toward a caries vaccine. A dental caries cavities vaccine. Okay. How's that cavities vaccine working for you? We have all of the data in their own words to demonstrate that they knew exactly what they were doing. This is not hallucination. This is hardcore fact and we've published this and we now have a center at UCSF devoted to understanding the corporate determinants of health.

10:26And when we look across society at the consequences of this sort of corporate interference, some of the crazy stats in your book Fat Chance that I really sort of highlighted where that by 2050 obesity will become the norm, not the exception. Correct. What the World Health Organization said that the percentage of obese people globally has doubled in the last 28 years. And in the UK, 28 % of adults are obese and 36 % of them are overweight. That's not from your book, but that's from some research we did on the UK numbers as well. Well, you know, the UK is the fat man of Europe. Yes, that's true.

10:59Having metabolic syndrome is equal to losing 15 to 20 years of life that was in your book. That's correct. Which is startling. And worldwide sugar consumption has tripled in just the last 50 years. Correct. Walter. Now you could say that's correlation, not causation, but we actually have the causation. We have the data. We have it in mechanistic terms. We have it in clinical interventional efforts. We have it in societal efforts. There is a method for determining proof that doesn't need randomized control trials. It's called econometric analysis. This is what we have for instance, climate change.

11:42There's no control group for climate change, but we still know it's true. This is what we have for tobacco and lung cancer. You don't have naive people start smoking. That would be illegal immoral, get you thrown in jail. But we still know that tobacco causes lung cancer. We know that Fippel Trauma causes chronic traumatic encephalopathy. None of these have control groups, but we know it's true through econometric analysis. This is a method of using natural history data over time to be able to determine proximate cause. And we have that for sugar and diabetes, and we have it for sugar and heart disease, and we have it for sugar and fatty liver disease, and of course we have it for sugar and tooth decay.

12:28We're working on sugar and cancer and sugar and dementia. We're not there yet. In your book Fact Chance, on page 120, there was something particularly curious, because I think this is a... Yeah, here we go. It says, the bottom line is, sugar consumption is a problem. 33 % of sugar consumption comes from beverages. Yes. And the biggest abuses are the poor and underserved. Indeed. So let's talk about beverages to start with then. Diet beverages. Are they fine? And how bad are the sort of fizzy pot beverages that most of us consume every day? So let's do the sugar soft drinks first. Okay. Okay. They are really bad.

13:19If you consume one sugar beverage per day, yours for diabetes goes up by 29%.

13:29Wow. Okay. That's... And diabetes. And that's if you have one. If you have two, 58%. And diabetes is now the main cause of death and 40 % of death certificates. Exactly right. So this is a big problem. So that's demonstrating its toxicity at... Shall we say medium dose? At low dose, you can handle it. But as soon as you go above that dose, it's a problem. And we have the data for it. And all of these are factored in. These are all econometric analyses. We've shown that sugar is a proximate cause of diabetes. Whenever sugar availability changes in any country, diabetes prevalence changes three years later.

14:12And we've also done what's known as advanced Markov modeling where we go into the future and show that when sugar consumption goes down in any country, diabetes levels change and reduce three years later. So it's a three year window between the change in the diet and the change in the metabolic health consequences. We have those data. And the fact that they work both on the way up and on the way down is like, you know, take it to the bank. Now, that's for the sugar beverages. You asked me about diet beverages. I've got one here. Let's look at it. All right. I've covered up the ledges because I've never seen this before.

14:57I wonder what that is.

15:01The data now show, I mean, it took a while for these data to come in. But the data now show that the toxicity of one sugared soda equals the toxicity of two diet sodas. Half is bad. Half is bad does not mean good. Half is bad means half is bad. Well, it says zero sugar here. So how can it be? Well, so because it's bad for a different reason. So the, yes, zero fructose, zero calories. I agree. But that doesn't make it good. Makes it better than the sugared alternative, but it doesn't make it good. Why? Number one, you put something sweet on the tongue. Message goes tongue to brain. Sugar's coming.

15:49Message goes brain to pancreas. Sugar's coming. Release the insulin. So I still get an insulin release. You still get an insulin response. And the more other Fuji ate, the bigger the insulin response. Okay. So you will have an accentuated insulin response because you were exposed to the diet sweetener. This has worked from Yannina Papino 2013 at Wash U. St. Louis. And it's been corroborated multiple times since. And why does that harm me? Having an insulin response? Because insulin is a bad guy. So we always talk about glucose being a bad guy in terms of diabetes. And it is, of course. But insulin is a bad guy too.

16:29Glucose causes small vessels to be dysfunctional. Causes endothelial cell dysfunction. It causes high blood pressure because it causes those small vessels to constrict. It interferes with nitric oxide, which is one of the things that relaxes the blood vessel. And it will, you know, basically reduce blood flow to specific organs. So high glucose is not good for you. And it's bad for small vessel disease. And that's why diabetics get retinopathy, nephropathy, neuropathy, kidney disease, nerve, nerve, nerve damage, and eye disease. But insulin is also a problem. Because what insulin does is it causes cell growth.

17:16Insulin is a growth factor. And it causes vascular smooth muscle growth like in your coronary arteries. And it causes glandular growth. So it is one of the primary drivers of heart disease and cancer. So you can be a diabetic, a type 2 diabetic, and have your hemoglobin A1C measure of your glucose control down near normal, near normal range. Because you're on insulin or oral hypoglycemics or even GLP1 analogs for that matter. And you will die just the same. Because you will die of a heart attack or of a cancer. Because diabetics have a much higher incidence of cancer. They also have a higher incidence of dementia as well.

18:08And the reason is because of insulin. Because insulin is a bad guy in this story. Glucose causes microvascular disease. The insulin causes macrovascular disease. They're both bad. You need to control both of them. And this controls the glucose. It doesn't control the insulin. Do you drink that stuff? Of course not. Just checking. Is there any other physiological consequences to diodesoders outside of the insulin response? No, no. The other thing that we've learned about non -nutriutive sweeteners across the board is that they alter the microbiome. Now, the microbiome is the bacteria that live in your gut.

18:53Now, you have to feed your microbiome. You have to feed your bacteria. Because if you don't feed your bacteria, your bacteria will feed on you. It will strip the mucin layer, a protective physical barrier, right off the surface of your intestinal epithelial cells. And when it does that, it denudes them and allows for other bacteria, the toxic bacteria, to take up residents and cause irritable bowel syndrome, inflammatory bowel disease. And the junctions between the cells become dysfunctional as well. And so, the cells become permeable. And so, stuff in your intestine, the junk in your intestine, the SH, you know what?

19:34Can actually make it through into the bloodstream. You can measure the endotoxins and the whole bacteria, the lipopolysaccharides, in the bloodstream, when the intestine is damaged, even from diet soda. And what that does is that ultimately leads to systemic inflammation. And that systemic inflammation also leads to metabolic disease, mental health problems, cognitive decline, early death. So, what advice do we give? Is simple and actionable for Jennifer, or Judith, or Dave, who's listening to this now, they are, you know, 40 years old, potentially they have a 9 to 5 job, they're very busy, maybe they have some kids defeated at the same time.

20:18They don't have time to be like, you know, looking at doing a fine sort of tooth comb over every single thing that they're putting into their body. They're not a scientist. Agreed. It's a problem because the food industry has made the grocery store a minefield. And it's really easy to set off an explosion. If you walk in, you've basically lost. That's how bad it is. Understood. So, the simple rule is eat real food. So, what's real food? Well, food that came out of the ground, or animals that ate food that came out of the ground. The problem is we all eat busy lives and we're looking for labor -saving devices because people don't even have time to cook.

21:05Most people at 33 % of Americans don't even know how to cook anymore. So, like, what are they going to do? So, we understand this. I mean, it's a problem. Agreed. We need food that is metabolically healthy for us, not metabolically detrimental. And the problem is that as soon as you put added sugar in the food, you have made it metabolically detrimental. Now, the food industry will say, well, there are all these other good things in there, like vitamins and minerals. We fortify it, et cetera. So, I'm here to tell you, toxin A plus antidote B still equals death. Okay? Just because they put some vitamins in there, or you take a dietary supplement.

21:49If it's not solving your mitochondrial dysfunction, what's the point? So, you can't believe what the food industry is telling you. Okay? If they say something is healthy, it's usually the opposite. Whatever it says on the package, believe the opposite. Because they have an incentive to put wrong stuff on the package. And I'll be honest with you, I'm part of numerous lawsuits suing the food industry for deceptive advertising, misbranding, mislabeling, 70 % of all of the items in the American grocery store are misbranded or mislabelled. In what way? They say things that are not true. Give me some examples.

22:34Well, first of all, any to think time they use the word healthy. Okay? They say no added sugar. Okay? But in fact, they put in apple puree or raspberry puree or evaporated cane juice. You know, they are 262 names for sugar. And the food industry uses all of them. And so, they will say that something's no added sugar, but that in fact is actually not the case. There's a whole host of this. Kellogg's has been sued for raisin brand. Okay? Everyone thinks raisin brand. Well, it's just raisins and brand. What color are the raisins in raisin brand? I've never seen it. Well, I mean, raisins are purple.

23:23Yeah. Purple brown. Yeah. Yeah. Numely. Well, the raisins in raisin brand are white. Why?

23:36If you take the raisins and raisin brand, that's supposed to be 11 grams of sugar, but on the side of the package, it says that once serving as 18 grams of sugar, where the other seven come from. It's the white. Because they've all been dipped in a sugar solution to make them sweeter. As an example. Okay? So, post -dispensed general mills, there's, there's, was dismissed. Mondelese, a whole host of companies are actually under the gun now to change their practices. Why do you cast their march? I am a pediatrician. My job is to take care of children. Children are vulnerable. In the same way, minorities are vulnerable, in the same way, prisoners are vulnerable.

24:32Okay? They need a voice. My job is to give every kid a shot. Well, we now have neonatal obesity. We have babies being born. Israel, South Africa, Russia, United States, four separate studies showing that over the past 25 years, birth weight has gone up 200 grams, half a pound, in all four countries. And when you do dexascaning to look at body composition on those newborns, those 200 grams are all fat. We have neonatal obesity. These kids did not get obese by dieting and exercising, by gluttony and sloth. They came out of the womb, behind the eight ball. It's my job as a pediatrician to fix the problem.

25:27That's what I care.

25:33If you're someone running a business today, that means you're probably operating in a world that doesn't sit still. Tariffs and trade policies are dynamic. Customer expectations shift constantly, and the pace of innovation is relentless. So your margin of error is becoming increasingly smaller. Making decisions without full visibility across your business is not only risky, but it inevitably slows down everything. And I see it all the time, businesses with the right ideas, but they're stuck because they're spread across five systems that don't talk to each other. Many of my companies now use our sponsor NetSuite by Oracle, which has an AI -powered business management suite that allows you to see your business more clearly.

26:10Everything from financials to HR to operations lives in one place, so instead of chasing information, you've got it all in front of you. It operates in real time so you can forecast with assurance, spot problems before they even become problems, and generally move faster without blind spots. If your business is generating seven figures or more, there's a free ebook that's worth your time reading. It's called Navigating Global Trade, three insights for leaders. And you can download it now from NetSuite .com slash Bartlett. That's NetSuite .com slash Bartlett. I'll link it below.

From the publisher

“Zero sugar” doesn’t mean zero damage. Dr. Robert Lustig exposes how the food industry misleads you with health claims while quietly fuelling obesity and chronic disease. From insulin-spiking sweeteners to mislabeled packaging, this moment unpacks the deception behind so-called healthy foods - and what you should actually be eating instead.

Listen to the full episode here -

Spotify - https://g2ul0.app.link/KhJ5MG5BcTb

Apple - https://g2ul0.app.link/Drk2qW9BcTb

Watch the Episodes On YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/%20TheDiaryOfACEO/videos

Dr Robert Lustig - https://robertlustig.com/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

More from The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett

All 629 episodes
Moment 212: The Dangerous Truth Behind “Sugar Free”!The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett · 26 min
Listen in VO