*NEW* Body Language Expert: When You Do This You Look like A Loser...(Sorry But You Do)! This Is The Real Reason You're Still Single!

21:48So I like that you're gathering away from me, that you're thinking of a question, the worst interviews I have or someone is just beating me with questions and not thinking about it. Okay, so gestures, eye contact, it's okay to make only 60 % eye contact, that's the triple threat. The thing in a first impression that I really like is breaking the script, right? I think in a first impression, it's okay to be like, hey, good morning, but when we do the how are you? Good, how are you? Good, how are you? Good, how are you? And you're getting like that horrible loop. I'm going to challenge everyone to try to break the script with how are you?

22:23So when someone asks, how are you? Don't say good, don't say busy, but good. Try to answer with like a little bit of humor. Okay. If you can. Now I'm not funny, so we should take this advice with a great of sols. You are funny. But I'm not that funny. But there's a couple things you can do. So one is you can answer with a number. So like, you laughed. I didn't even do it yet in your last. You laughed at that. Right? Seven. So most people say seven. I was going to say seven. Oh really? Right? So if you're like, someone's like, how are you? And you're like, seven on a 10 scale? Right? Like it just, it breaks the script a little bit.

22:55I also love when you say what you're wrestling with. So I might be like, just been fighting my inbox all day, but a good 10 out of 10. Like sometimes it's good to give like a little bit of context of like what you've been dealing with for the day or if you know that you look a mess, you can be like better on the inside than the outside. Better on the inside than the outside. Right. Like something that just gets people thinking a little bit, it kind of breaks the script and it makes for a very nice first impression. So first impressions, make sure the conversation doesn't hit a dead end essentially.

23:25And break the script. Yeah, break the script. Break the script. So like, I'd rather you take a little bit of a risk and have some conversational courage to not do the script. Right. Because then you're going to make a way better for a suppression. Yeah. And that also means not asking how are you, but instead being like, what's good? So like when I start a conversation, like anytime I try never to ask how are you, I try to say what's good. Anything good today? It's a very subtle, subtle change on that. And it makes people think for a second in a good way. Oh, yeah, what's good? And it totally changes the nature of the conversation.

24:00I do this here sometimes. So when it comes in, the question that I always ask pretty much everyone that sits down is like, what's front of mind for you at the moment? Is that a good one? I like that one a lot. I would prefer. So what do you've been looking forward to? Are you looking forward to anything in your life? Because it's positive. Yeah, it's juicing excitement. So like, I think our job, if you want to really be a master communicator, is you are gifting good chemicals. You know that phrase, like, leave people better than you found them? Yeah. I take that quite literally. I think master communicators are literally gifting beautiful chemicals to the person.

24:33They're making people feel super full of dopamine. Dopamine is like very simplified. Excitement, motivation, energy. They're gifting testosterone. You feel capable. You feel smart. Wow, you're good at what you do, right? And you leave feeling like, like, I'm so good. This is for men and women. You're gifting serotonin. Calm, belonging. You got this. You can be yourself with me. I give you permission to be yourself. I love you for who you are. I think one of the reasons why people often verbal vomit on me, like, they tell me everything about their lives. I think it's because I'm like trying to gifting serotonin.

25:06I want them to feel that they can be absolutely themselves and I accept them for exactly who they are. So serotonin, dopamine, and testosterone. If we can gif those out, I call it like the chemical cocktail. Like, that's the cocktail I want to gif to everyone in my conversation. And that's what master communicators are doing. And how would I give you all those things? Okay, so you break this script, but there's waking me up, right? Like, this is gonna be different. Then you ask, what are you looking forward to? Like, if you ask me what's been in front of mind, I'm gonna probably give you a negative answer.

25:32To be quite honest with you. Do you usually get negative answers to that question? Negative or neutral? Or it's typically something work related. So they'll say my book tour, I'm trying to get this published, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And your board, aren't you? It's somewhat interesting to me, because I write it down, and then I'll talk to them about it. But I mean, if it was a social conversation, it wouldn't be interesting. Yeah, and I would argue, like, you would be more engaged if you got an exciting answer, even in this setting. Yeah. So your board, their board. So one, if you're like looking forward to anything, got any fun plans coming up, those are all like gifting little bits of dopamine, then capitalizing on any moment that I call it a me -to moment, I have this series called Thread Theory.

26:15And it's this idea that in conversation, we are throwing threads at each other. So like, if we have a shared thing, I have thrown a thread, you get it, and you pull it. And it's like you're trying to get even more out of me. The more threads that there are between you and me, the more we like each other, and the closer we get. Me -to moments create serotonin. When I say I like X, and you're like, what? I like X -2. We're like, chemically. And that makes me feel serotonin, makes me feel calm, belonging. I can be myself. So any time in a conversation that someone says, anything that you agree with, or you feel like, I have that too, you want to capitalize and be like, Thread, me -to.

26:52How do you stop it feeling like you're making it about yourself, though? Because if you said to me, you've got a cyber truck outside. If you walked in and said, oh, I've got to just put a cyber truck, and I go, I've just put a cyber truck. Okay, so there's a big difference between how you said it and how I said it. Okay, so I say, I just got a cyber truck. Oh yeah, join the club. That's what you want me to say. Yeah. I wouldn't say like that though. There was a difference here, because I'm British. And British people are very like, we're very like, you know what I mean? You're so demure. Is that what it is?

27:21Which is very, oh yeah, join the club. Can you? I would have liked it. You wouldn't freak out. Now you're saying that. You're like it, because it's so weird. Not because I like weird people. Is there anything else in the first impressions bucket before we move on to second impressions? And what I mean by that is really like, how do I then cement and invest in that relationship so I can keep it? Okay, so if you've made a good first impression, you are set up for success. It's great. If you're making a second impression, because you weren't sure how the last one went, right? Or you want to kind of build on it further.

27:55Your best bet is to show them how much they were on your mind. Everyone's number one worry in this world is, did I leave an impression at my memorable? That's what we want to know. So the very first thing you want to assure them is, oh, I loved our last meeting. I've been looking so forward to this lunch. Right? So can you assure them that you're so happy to see them, talk to them, hear from them, sitting on the phone, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you called. Like that warmth of you were right to call. You were right to text. You were right to show up. Right? Like if someone texts me, of course, like, not if I'm texting them all day long, but if someone texts me and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you texted.

28:35I will literally say that. I was just thinking of you. Right? Like, oh, I'm so glad you reached out. I always love our conversations. Like that immediate, you're good here is serotonin. That's that belonging feeling of like, you're already safe. You're letting someone be themselves right off the bat. What about online first impressions? Is there anything that I need to think about if I'm on, because so much of our lives runs on Zoom or Google, hi -outs now. Yes. Okay. So first, can we talk about just, um, like, dating apps? Yes. Okay. So they've actually done research on this. You are better off opening with a unique word or phrase than just hi.

29:10Hello. How are you? So like, how do you, if you're in Texas, even if you're not in Texas, how do you, a low -ha? What's good? Anything that's not that high or hello is a little bit different. It's going to make you stand out. So if you can, Nope. You're defeating the spirit of the study here. Okay. So like, not a hey, not a high, not a what's up, not a how are you? Okay. But like, can you have like a, like a signature phrase or like, bingo? I would take it. You'd take it. Bingo. And then you're in box. They, they study this and they found that where there's so much noise, there's so much noise, that if you can be the red apple, so this is a story.

29:51When I was, I used to be a camp counselor when I was younger, that's how I made money. And I noticed this phenomenon during break, where I would bring always a basket of fruit for break. And usually it was all red apples or all green apples. And I noticed if I had a basket of green apples and one red apple, every single camper had to have that red apple. But I would ask them, do you like the red apples better? And they'd be like, no, I just want that one because it's the only one. And I've never forgotten that in that, I think that really special people, master communicators are the red apple.

30:25They're not oranges. They're still fitting it with everyone. But they're just like a little bit different. And that's, I think how it should be both in business and also in romance is, can you be a red apple? Where you're still the same, you're not like, wacko crazy, but you're like a little different, everyone else. So like a bingo or a howdy or an aloha or a shalom or whatever it is. I think that it makes you stand out just enough where you have that kind of peak effect. The peak effect is like you peak someone's curiosity a little bit. And that that really works. That's why marketing campaigns that are a little different, they always work better.

30:57And what about then on Zoom and other sort of business professional environments? Okay, so in Zoom and professional environments, please turn your camera on. Yeah. Please turn your camera on. This sounds obvious, but more and more people are turning their camera off, especially if you have back -to -back meetings. But if you can have your camera on just for the first few seconds, it is a game changer for people's perception of you. So one is make sure that you are not accidentally negative. Here's how this happens. Can you see me? Can you hear me? Oh, oh, hi. A lot of Zoom impressions happen where someone is caught off guard or they're in the middle of like, can you see me?

31:37Can you hear me? And they're fixing themselves and then they make a first impression. Know your first impression already happened. It happened the moment your camera turned on. Remember your first impression on video happens the moment someone first sees you, not when you start talking. So your first impression is usually, hey, warning. So you raised your hand now? I always give a wave or a high. I make sure my camera is at least three feet away from my nose. Like I literally have a measuring tape to make sure I'm not too close. I make sure that my body is angled towards the camera. And then usually I have a question ready and here's why.

32:07In person, it's so much easier to make conversations, especially around context or like, oh, you know, was it easy getting here? I loved your Cybertruck. Very hard on Zoom. And so what happens is you get on and you go, hi. Hi. Whether good where you are. It's like, it's so awkward. Be ready. Be ready within anecdote or a question. I like an anecdote. So if you've done anything good, interesting, seen anything good or interesting, I want you to be ready to share it. It sounds like this. Hey, morning. Oh my gosh. I just discovered the best breakfast taco in Austin. Best breakfast I'm going to ask him.

32:45Have you ever had a breakfast taco? Whatever. But like, I was ready to go with that anecdote. I think that that's how we should pre -start all of our video calls. It's like some small anecdote or story. And that also helps in conversation. Like, I believe everyone should have a story toolbox. So in conversation, there are certain topics that will always come up. Whether. Traffic. And where you're from. So here's my challenge. This is what master communicators do. Whenever those three topics come up, I want you to have one story about each of them. It could be a trivia. It could be a story. It could be a fact that you're ready to go to shift the conversation away from boring weather.

33:20To something really interesting. When someone asks, where are you from? You should say, oh, I'm from Los Angeles. Interesting fact. Interesting story. That little interesting story, like someone the other day said to me, oh, I'm from this place. Maybe Liverpool. Liverpool. And he said, oh, it's where Banksy's from. And I was like, oh, and we had a whole conversation about Banksy. And I was like, that was it. He said where he was from. But instead of being Liverpool, I'd be like, cool, never been there. He was like, Liverpool, it's supposedly where Banksy's from. I was like, really? But don't we do even know who Banksy is?

33:53And he's like, well, we don't know. But he could have been in my high school. We had a whole fun conversation about Banksy. And I asked him afterwards, I was like, do you always share that comment? He's like, yeah, because it creates the most interesting conversation. So when you say where you're from, have an interesting fact or interesting story, I read a book about traffic literally to have interesting stories about traffic. Like, for example, in Los Angeles, everyone says the 101, the 5, the 10. That's the only place in the world when we say that. So sometimes I'll even, like, someone will be like, oh, traffic.

34:22And I'll be like, oh, so are you a the person? Do you say the, and be getting a whole conversation about? So I have little things that create a little bit of juice. And I'm always rotating them out. So in your phone, create a note called Story Toolbox. And have the topics that typically come up in your conversation, start saving little stories for them. It is the same stuff. It's like 80%, 90 % of the time, it's the same stuff. It's the same questions how you, where you, how's the weather traffic? I'm constantly adding that story toolbox. And I'm rotating out my facts and trivia because I get bored.

34:53What if you like stumbled across the same person twice and you don't realize you've hit them with the same story? Because if you, if we do, I don't talk to the same people again. If we did a couple of Zoom calls and you kept coming on going, are you a that person? Or I'd go, wait a minute. Like, no, if we were doing a regular Zoom calls, you would know that I'm probably going to ask you what's good. And you'd probably be pre -thinking about what's good in your life. Like, I have a friend who always asks, what are you learning? And whenever I go, hang out with him, I make sure I'm learning something.

35:21Like, it actually preps me in a good way. So you would know me for certain questions. And that would, I think my, my experience is, when you're known for asking better questions, people actually come into the conversation more excited with better expectations to interact with you. So like, be known for it. Like, fine, be known for the traffic trivia. Or like, worse come source. Someone says, oh, yeah, the other thing we talked about that last time. And I'd be like, oh, my gosh, yes. And then I forgot you're from Ohio. Great. I remember you. How important is the background on your Zoom videos? Yeah.

35:51Pretty important. I also have a thing against, like, blurred out fake backgrounds. I don't like when people use a fake background. I think there was actually some Harvard business research on this, but it was during COVID, so it kind of changes, you know, the research. But as a human, we get very distracted by fake backgrounds. So please think twice about blurring out your background or putting a fake background around you. Like, you know, one of those backdrops. The eye, it's like a green screen. You know, when you see our greatest screen, your eye is like something is not right. If you will perceive you as more inauthentic, I would much rather do have conversation cues behind you.

36:26Like, you have the most wonderful bookshelf cues and captivate up there. Right? Like, my books, which I love. And you rotate those books out. So as I'm talking, if I wanted to make conversation with you, I could be like, oh, my gosh, yes. Peter, a Tias book outlive so good. Did you like it? What was your biggest takeaway from that? We're like, it gives me gifts of conversation. I also noticed like one time I was looking at Kevin Hart, he was on a Zoom call. And his background was all of his favorite comedians behind him. And it was like a great conversation starter. And he even had one of the comedians behind him was like holding up his hand like this, like literally in a permanent hello.

37:01And I was like, oh, my gosh, like Kevin Hart doesn't even realize he's doing the best numberable cue there is, which is palms. Like, we love a palm. And what about looking at the camera? Versus looking at the face of the person. So I try to make them as close as possible. Like just physically speaking, if you can try to make your camera and you're in the person as close as possible, it's going to help you be more authentic, right? So like my screen is not over here. I see some people will have the mistake of though, they're like, you know, they're off to the side and then like kind of looking over their shoulder at the camera.

37:31Whoo, please don't do that. So I have my even like propped up. So like your face would be very close to the top of the camera. If you can get 50 % eye contact with them and 50 % eye contact with the camera, I'd be very happy. Research does show that we can get oxytocin through a screen. Really? Yeah, yeah. Even though it's not real, our brain is still sort of, oh, yeah, they're looking at me. They're talking me. They're not hiding anything. So 50, 50 if you could do it. Now, we were talking a second ago about first impressions, then second impressions, but also dating profile photos yesterday or the day before.

38:03My team here took you to a buy in Austin, Texas. And you met two different couples that were going on a first date. And your job was to coach them both. So they had success on that date. And on that first date, one member of the couple had an earpiece in. So you could speak to them directly and give them advice on what they should do. We're going to play some videos for anyone that's able to watch. But you give me the context and what happened and what you observed. I was shocked by these dates. I was shocked because every single person except one hid their true feelings. And that did not serve them.

38:37So we had the very first date. And they were very well matched, by the way. Like I liked both of them. What was shocking about this date though is the female Ashley. I could not tell if she liked him. I literally had no idea. And I was in her ear. So I was whispering in her ear. Things to say and to ask. I was giving her all the warmth because she looked very cold. You would never have known she was in a sky. You would know that she said, oh yeah, I'm really physically attracted to him. So what? You did not get attracted at all. And her questions were all very fact -based. What I wanted her to do is bring in more warmth.

39:14So we can watch it if you want. That's what she'll see. Are you ready to meet your lady? Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. So what is going to be your opening line? We had to prepare a comment on her starters because we can't do up. Really? How are you? How are you? We can't do that. What if I started with a who are you? Okay, that breaks the scripts. I like it. That? I mean, yeah, that's like what? I'm going to give you another one though. Can you consider what's been good? Remember, that's good. Also, the same tip if you're in a grocery store, someone in the park. Like what's the opener when you it's cold?

39:44Right? I don't like a how -or -ya. I don't like a whatseptok. Yeah, weather's great, right? No, no, no. I know. So like what's been good or what feels good to you? If you see something you like about her, feel free to authentically compliment. If, right? Yeah. If you're like, oh my gosh, you look beautiful. You know, like that's a good one. So I think you can ask like, what's the goal you're working on? Like cash, still a little bit good. Because then they'll say, I mean, what do you think you're going to mean, Austin forever? That's a very casual way of being like, what's your five -year plan?

40:12My goal is a little bit of death. I know you can make friends with anyone, but I want you to see if there's like an actual connection there. Okay. Okay. And then to see if it's, if you want to connect with her, I want you to ask her out at the end of the day. Yeah? So what's the observed there when you watch it back? Okay, so do you see he got nervous? Yeah, his body like he was. Because I knew it's easy for him to make friends with anyone. And a very likable man sometimes have a, have really a hard time getting serious relationships because they're so likable they can make friends, everyone, they get confused about where the where the depth is.

40:41Is that a bit of a defense mechanism as well? It's a defense mechanism and it's also what he's good at. We want to do what we're good at, which is, you know, making a chit chat. And a lot of people do the sundaes. They'll be like, where are you from in Austin? No, that's the wrong question. What you ask is, what are your favorite secret spots in Austin? What do you love about Austin? What are the most underrated restaurants in Austin? That is breaking the script and that happened to them on the state. There was a good five or 10 minutes of boring fluff because they were on that. And I was like, get to the deeper questions.

41:11So when you're asking these questions to prepare ahead of time, what's the most underrated thing? What's your favorite thing that would have been better? But he got very nervous when I started it by challenge month death. So the next video is the meeting. Feel free to pause it if there's anything pertinent or anything interesting. You want to show me? What's your favorite spot to go to around here, though? To be honest, I don't go out very much. Okay, nice. What do you do? I... Okay. She... If someone said that to me, I'd assume they weren't interested in me. Exactly right. Okay, so this is called Dream Killing in Conversation.

41:46When someone asks you a question and you shut it down by saying, I don't do that, I don't like that, I don't want that with nothing else left. Like she just stopped, I don't... To be honest, I don't really go out that much. And he said to me afterwards, that's the thing I'm most nervous about, is that she sort of shut that down. So when you don't like something, don't dream kill the conversation. A better way to answer that would be, you know what? I do love to be in my jam jams at home on the couch watching Netflix. But for the right occasion, I can get out and party sometimes. That would have been a better way to answer that question, because it's a little bit playful and it's not totally dream killing his charisma.

42:22And watch this, she's gonna act like she's not interested at all. But she's actually very attracted to him. She said that to me. Work? A lot. Okay. Tell them something you love. Tell them something you love. What do I love? What do I love? What do I love? What I love to do? Work out, be outside, be active. Yeah, these are waters. Oh, okay. Yeah, I was like, I don't know what to say. Yeah, you're the like one. Always, always do a cheers. Cheers, Steven. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. What does that do? Okay, cheers. Mm -hmm. It immediately warmed her up. She was very, very stiff in this. And I was like, I said to her in her ear, by the way, he did not know, Kendrick, poor Kendrick, he still doesn't know that I was, we never told him.

43:06I never told him. Okay. Surprise. He didn't know that I was in her ear whispering. She was so stiff, I said, tell them what you love, because I was trying to get her to show any kind of warmth or excitement at all, because she was so stiff. And then she's still, she was like, what do I love? I work out. I just can't believe that she actually liked him. Yes. Because everything about her is giving, I can't wait to leave. This is why we're having a baby crisis. It's because we were afraid to show that we like someone. She was physically attracted to him and into him. You would never know it. I was the one saying, cheers him.

43:41Say what you love, ask him about his family. And so I think that this is a crisis because we think we're being obvious. We are not being obvious. Yeah. I don't know. I know I was just sitting here like, this is the Tuesday, which is crazy. How long have you been in Austin? Two years. Okay. No, that's great. Right? That's why that didn't work. You just heard it. That's why I don't need to do on a date. It's a conversational at that end. No numbers, questions, unless you are absolutely desperate for conversation you're willing to ask a follow -up. But it was like, how about you? Horrible. How long you've been in Austin for years?

44:18And then there was a gap. She had no intent at all of asking a follow -up question. Right. No intent at all. I'll ask a follow -up question. And he didn't know what to do with it. It's funny because when I watch this, I think he really likes her because he's leading the conversation. And she's just hitting the ball back. That's right. But actually she was very into it. She just didn't know how to hit the ball back. Right? So if you're going to be in conversation, you want to be a master communicator. By the way, there are drivers and passengers in conversation. This is what I'm researching right now.

44:43You actually don't want all drivers. You don't want two people asking all the questions. But you have to be a good passenger. By she should have said two years, but actually, I feel like Austin has changed so much in the last two years. Have you noticed that? Have you been here for a long time? Like she should have added one more thing to not dream kill. Like three years? Okay. Yeah. I'm from Ohio. Okay. Like the acronym. Okay. So asking, what do you love about Ohio? Do you love Dima's Ohio? No. No. Not really. I mean, I'll go back my whole family's there, right? Can I ask how old you are? Oh, guess.

45:16Oh, okay. Guess 30. 30? Yeah. Why did you say guess 30? Okay. So I was giving her a micro -win. So she, remember, we're trying to gift dopamine, serotonin testosterone, very simplified. It was not going great. Right, I was watching and this is like, oh my god, we're talking about acronym. Ohio. We're in trouble now. Right? So he tried with her. So I knew if she guessed right, it would like make her feel good. And I needed her to feel good so she would start driving. So she was sort of driving the conversation. So that's why I made, I told, I knew his age. I'll be 31 in like a week. Okay. I know you're not supposed to, oh wait, you're birthed so you're an Aries.

45:52Yeah. I'm an Aries too. A Me Too moment. They set this up on purpose. They literally did. Yeah. Wait, so what day is your birthday? April 1st. Okay. Oh, I'm March 29th. What do you do? Are you serious? Yeah. I think that's my mother's birthday. What's her body language giving here? Very closed. Yeah. And in, I never done this before, I wanted to say to her, open up, laugh more, touch your lips, touch your hair. There are a lot of things that women can do to show I am feeling physically attracted to you. But I was like, oh, like I wasn't sure she was physically attracted. So here I am thinking, is she physically attracted?

46:28If she wanted to show him I'm into you, she could have touched her hair, she could have touched her lips, she could have touched the side of her face. All of those are gestures of like self -touch that show interest. But she didn't show any of that. She also was, I see how tight, see how little space she's taking up, defeated body language, let's say. So very, very closed off. We are going to be in trouble if we can't show that we like someone. I also want you to notice, as soon as they had the Mee Toe moment, the thread theory, they both warmed up. Yeah, they did, yeah. Like once we get a Mee Toe moment, it's like so much faster to laugh.

47:01Or she actually like literally physically relaxed. Because we, I love dancing. And they like always have a DJ. It's more like clubby music here. I love dancing. I love dancing. I love dancing. Yeah, I love throwing ass. That's what I'm like. She was going to let that go. But I was trying to give her a thread. I love dancing. And also I'm trying to get her to say love. So a lot of the questions I were like, what do you love about Ohio? Do you love dancing? Like when you use more words like that, you're actually queuing for that. I think we talked about last time that when you use, like when they had people split up into Wall Street and community, people who were told they were playing the community game actually acted in a more communal way.

47:36When you use words like love and excitement and good and looking forward, you actually create those feelings. So on a date, you want to be using the words that you're trying to create. Especially because she actually felt something she liked him a lot. But even beyond the date, right? In a professional context. Yes, so that then it would be like, let's have some wins. Like what's good? Right? You're trying to have efficiency and productivity and trust and collaboration. If you want to have a collaborative meeting, literally in your calendar, call it collaboration meeting. If you want to say, high team, every time you say team, you're priming for team.

48:09Right? So those words really matter. I'm kind of like a really bad kind of person. Yeah, no, I love that. I'm not. I like every night or just like weekend. I'm extremely extroversed. Okay. Absolutely. Let's go. And then it's like, I'm so tired. Yeah. I'm extroverted and introverted. Like once I'm out, like I'm probably not going home. Yeah. But then it's like, I also love my like, oh, I'm tired. I'm learning. Okay, so do you hear she's using vocal fry? When you use closed body language, it affects your voice. So I vocal fry is when you're like, I love going out and I kind of love, right? So she started to go into a little bit of vocal fry here, which is not attractive.

48:53We do not like vocal fry. Why is she doing that? I think she's doing it because she's so close. It's very hard to get good vocal power when you're that closed. Right? So you can hear it here. Yeah. We'll go up and it's next week. Yeah. Well, yes. Who did that? But then it's like, I also love my like, oh, I'm tired. I'm learning to love it more. Yeah. We can still go get a drink if you want it. If you're not busy or go another day after your birthday. Okay. If you're interested. We can do that after my birthday. Yeah. Can I ask you a question on that? Yeah. He seemed to bottle it. Yeah. He said we can go get a drink if you want to.

49:28If you're interested. Or we can go. But I, it's because she didn't immediately be like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I got a little angry after this day. Tell me love. He loves to go out. Yeah. Just like. No. I would love to go out when I get back. Yeah. Yeah. Let's make it happen. It's that's in about 45 days. Because you're falling to Europe. Yeah. For 30 days maybe something sooner. Are you keeping like right on your birthday? No, I'm leaving on the 21st. But that's in 10 days. And I haven't finished booking the whole entire trip. Yeah. And I want to run those numbers. Yeah. She rejected him. I was real mad after the state.

50:11Because I asked her, are you attracted to him? Yes. Did you like him? Yes. Do you have fun? Yes. Would you like to go out with him again? I'm real busy. I was like, girl, we handed this guy to you on a silver platter. He's fun. You're attracted to him. And you're too busy. Busyness is not a mark of success. Busyness is going to prevent you from finding your person. And this is a problem we have. We're so busy with our self -care rituals and our workouts and our work that we are missing opportunities for connection. And connection is the thing that's going to make us healthy, happy, and live a long time.

50:47We have to stop saying we're too busy to connect with good people. Was she actually too busy? Like, are she scared or something? Because I just don't understand that. I literally think she thought she was too busy. And I was like, get your priorities straight. And so this is not even if you're looking for your person. I also see this with friendships. Friends where we put our friendships last. But actually, if we were having a hard moment or a health crisis, who do you want your support to send to your friends? We have to start prioritizing the connections in our life, especially with good people.

51:17And so it made me angry because I thought this could be a great person for you. Genosefully wild is how they met in a village 100 years ago. They'd be married. Married. Babies. But I guarantee if you hadn't intervened in this situation, and this wasn't, if you weren't sort of coercing them to like, to hang around with each other, they'd never see each other again. Yeah, and I said after, after Mike's were off, I was like, go get him. Girl, go get him. And they did, and they sat in the bar, and they chatted for the entire hour, and they walked out together. Yeah, they left together around. By the way, let's get some D -A -O -C babies.

51:52I know. I'll be an efficient at the wedding. We can do it together. I imagine. Imagine if they... But it's so... I've been thinking about this a lot lately. We were talking about it as a team. I was saying, one of the issues I think people have these days is we just have too many options. Too many choices. Yeah, so jam -sitting. Do you know the jam -sitting? Yeah, yeah. You have 20 jams on a table. People will pick none, because there's just too many, when there's only three, people buy more. Yeah. Very simple. And this is going on in dating at the moment. Do you know what it was? A friend of mine.

52:21We were having a debate actually in the room over there a couple of days ago. And they were saying to me, I just need to meet more guys. And I'm starting to think, your actual job is networking. Like, you get paid to meet people. You know, more people than anyone I know. Yeah. I could say, right now, I could say to this person, I need a chiropractor in Las Vegas, and this person should go, I know the guy. Oh, wow. So I was saying, like, the issue might be that, you know, you have too many of them. Too much jam. Too much jam. Okay, so too many choices is one. But I also think like, we are so accidentally, we become so obsessed with our morning routine, our evening routine, our rituals, our self -care.

53:02Self -care wasn't even a thing that we talked about when I was on social media 10 years ago. So what happens is I see a rigidity. There's a new rigidity happening for both men and women, but a lot of women too, where, oh, I can't go on that date because I have to do my morning routine. I can't do that thing because I have to get my workout in. And I think that we are putting our connections in the last place. When actually, if we want to know what's really good for our health and our longevity, it's our relationships. We get the most of the good chemicals of the good happy laughs and the endorphins with other people, and we keep putting it last.

53:37You must meet people, though, that they've been on like a hundred dates, and they tell you that they just can't find the person. And you go a hundred dates, like a hundred years ago, you wouldn't even know a hundred people. Yeah. I need to be happily married. Yes. Yes, I also think our checklists are getting in the way. Checklists. So many single people, I know they'll tell me they have a list. They have a list of things that they really want. When I met my husband, I did not have a list, but there was just a connection there. And even though we're very different on paper, it just worked. And so I think that when people have a checklist, it actually blinds them to seeing a connection right in front of their face.

54:15Yeah. And she said to me, I don't know if this is on camera or not, so hopefully it's okay if I share it, but she's like, you know, I just, I don't know if he's as career oriented as I was like. That's really important to me. And I knew that was on her list. On her list, on her internal list, career is right up top. Now they didn't even talk about career. So I said, well, did you even know what he does? Well, no. So she was judging him based on his personality. That's it. And it didn't check the list. And so what could happen on these dates is they become very conversationaly transactional. What do you do?

54:45Check. Where are you from? Don't know. Check. So you're trying to get the list. You want kids to. So these checklists, I think, are creating a lot of rigidity. And then you add in the busyness, the busyness trap, which is, I'm so successful. I'm so busy. Busy is not a mark of success. Do you think there's also an element that we've got more and more ambivalent with, if we, the more and more we date, the more it becomes transactional, the more we show up without passionate interest or curiosity? I don't know if that's ambivalence. I think that is numbness. Like, people have gotten really attractive.

55:24If I don't know if you've noticed this. There they have. My goodness, people are so pretty. Like, I want Instagram and I'm like, how does everyone look so good? Like, I didn't really know anyone with a nape pack when I went to school. Like, did you? Like, no. No, because that wasn't really a thing. I'm like, old, right? Like, no one had that. There was no social media. So like, people had like, you know, normal looks. Now people are extremely attractive. And so I think that the bar has gone up so that we're all like numb to how beautiful people are, how funny people are, how kind people are, because we've been on a thousand dates.

55:58Or the funniest best thing they ever did is on their Instagram and we saw it. So anything else is like, seeing it, nothing is impressive anymore. Like, I, there's two challenges I recommend for people who are in like kind of a funk. Like, if you're in like a, you're burnt out or you're feeling lonely or you're like, things are not working. There's two challenges you could consider. The first one is really hard. And it's the no mirror challenge. It's you go 30 days without looking in a mirror. Something really crazy happens when you cannot see yourself and see how good you look and see what you look like.

56:36And it's especially powerful women. I did it for 30 days. And I went, you have to do all your normal things. You have to go to meetings. You have to go out. But without looking in a mirror, which means you usually don't wear makeup. And you don't do your hair. You kind of just go out as you are. First, you realize that people still like you. Even if you don't look perfect. So no mirror challenge can give you a lot of confidence and also can show you where your true relationships, your true friends are. The second challenge is a social media or an online blackout challenge, which is if you don't have any dopamine from your phone, you have to go get dopamine, noxitose, and from in -person relationships.

57:13So if you have a blackout where you cannot go on any social media or have any kind of interactions on your phone, and you have to go out in person, you actually do. Like, I remember when I used to travel for work. And I'd get to a city and there was nothing to do. Like, there was no phone in my hotel. I did not have an iPad. You could read a book. Or you could try to go out. And that's what I would do. I would like get to a city and be like, well, I have nothing to do in the hotel room. There's literally nothing to do. I had my book, or I could go to the hotel bar, or I could go walk around the city.

57:43And I met more people in that time of my life than I do now, even though I'm connected to more people than ever. I was just thinking that about something someone said to me a couple of days ago, which links to what you're saying. Someone said to me that much of the cause of the insult culture is these young men spend lots of time playing video games. And the video games gives them the sense of accomplishment, the sense of building. It also gives them the like dopamine hit, when you like, when a sword or some coins or something. And so I was just also thinking about that in the context to being like a workaholic.

58:15Like if I'm working all day, every day on a screen, and I'm conscious, which is what I do, when it comes to like going out and meeting people and networking, for me, it's like hell. And I'm wondering if there's a link there. I'm like, maybe if I wasn't on a screen off for like 12 hours a day, but have more dopamine left over to go speak to somebody. Dopamine, and also the energy flip wouldn't be so massive. The energy that you're using on your computer is very much output, right? Like you're putting your energy into your machine to create content of some kind. When you go out, it's a feedback.

58:47It's back and forth. Yeah. Having your brain switch from one to the next is very jarring. And if you already get dopamine from your screen, what's the motivation for going out in person? There's only downside. My computer has never energized me, but these conversations always do. Yeah, why would you go out? You already have the best conversations you can do, and you're in control. Look, I don't know. Just saying, I think you like control. Do you think I like control? In what context would you think I like controlling? The reason I bring up the control thing is, if you are on social media, you are in complete control.

59:21You decide how often you scroll. You decide where you click. You decide when you're done with someone, you just exit their video. Well, you don't conversation if I don't like your answer. I can't go off. I can't turn your volume down. I can't double click on your like. I actually have to sit and listen to you. And I think that, you know, if you're in control of your conversations, and even like at this table, you are in control. Like, I'm talking a lot, but like, you could interrupt me anytime you want, and I'll answer whatever question you ask me. And so I wonder, don't be mad at me. If I'm in like real conversation, like, I could ask you anything that I want.

59:56Like right now, I have a thousand questions for you, but I'm trying to not ask them. Ask me the questions. Well, I asked you the one about control. You didn't really answer. You asked how to step back to me. You don't think you're a control freak? Probably. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, probably. It's all context dependent. Because when you said control freak, I was like, well, I don't have any control in that part of my life. That's second one, Chrisy. But typically in business, I think that I'm a control freak. Yeah. That's why you said, you're on my team. Yeah. And then say, yeah, he's a control freak.

1:00:25So I would, I would, why control freak? I might, yeah, just laughing. He's a really important part of it. Yeah, I'm talking. Thank you, Jack. Yeah, you're welcome. So I control freak. It isn't really a problem. No, I am. Yeah. So I think, look, I don't know. But my guess would be why you don't want to go out with people is because you have to give up control. And you, you, you have to be in a conversation where you might be asked something. I might be boring or you don't like it. And like, why? Why? I do struggle. I really struggle with like, going to like networking events and stuff. I really struggle with that stuff.

1:01:01I don't love a networking event. But I've found that if I have a very specific goal, yeah, it's better. So like, for example, if I like, I'm researching my next book, I'm looking for conversational case studies. So I'm going to the event and I'm like, okay, tonight I'm going to try a new question and see how it goes. You know, I'm then I'm like, okay, have a purpose. Or if I'm like, I'm going to practice some new jokes. Or if I'm like, I'm looking from a new, you know, business inspiration. Like that helps me. So I think no one really likes that when you have a goal. It makes it a little bit better.

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1:02:38We're talking about business there. If I want to communicate more effectively as a leader in business, are there any ways that I can become a little bit more? I guess there's different types of leaders that struggle with different things. But how do great leaders communicate? What do they do well? Oh, this is my favorite topic. As a leader, especially if you're trying to get meet people and new people especially, your what do you do needs to be IMA who helps. A lot of leaders struggle with building the right connections. And so they'll be very either like intellectual with their answer. So like, or very vague.

1:03:16So like I heard business leaders say, oh, you know, I run a tech company. Hmm, that is a dream killer for a conversation. People don't want to do it that. So what you're better off saying is I have a tech company and we help aspiring cooks. So this kind of actually pulls us to another conversation you had in our fake dates scenario. If you click on the first link there with the gentleman whose name is Tim. I found it really fascinating watching you help Tim introduce his profession. I love Tim. So Tim is my person. Okay, Tim is my person. Like he let me tell you about him. So Tim is a code monkey slash software engineer which will watch that video in a second.

1:03:57He is highly technical. He's very kind. He loves what he does. And on the date, he was actually the only person of the four speed daters who showed warmth the entire time. And I didn't know. I even said to Jack I was like, I think he's into her. And I asked him afterwards. I said, are you into her? And he said, no. And I was very impressed with him because he still showed warmth, congeniality and kindness even though he wasn't physically into her. And I was like, this is magic. I also think that Tim came across as a little bit nervous and a little bit awkward. And I was like, oh Tim, if we could just dial up your confidence and add that to your warmth, you are going to find your person.

1:04:40And so I love Tim. We can watch his interaction. The first clip of Tim there. I thought it was fascinating. Yeah, that one there. Okay, you're going to have a great date. First, can I help you out with some advice? Okay, so ignore the cameras completely. You're making great eye contact, which I love. She's probably going to ask you what do you do? Okay. What is your answer to that question? I am a code Mikey or a software engineer. Okay, cool. So Tim, I need to software engineer. It's a good answer but it's a conversational dead end. Because unless I'm a software engineer, I don't know what to say.

1:05:15So I'm like, so what I want you to do is actually create a hook. So you're going to say, so what kind of coding do you do? I do a lot of backend stuff. That's probably too much. Nope, don't even know what that is. You have to think of a hook to give me so that you don't have this. What do you do? Software engineer. What do you do? Teacher. Because we have to have a, we can't, you can't say, I'm a software engineer. Do you like art? Yeah, we can't do that. Right? How long have you been doing it? How about that? I've been doing it for five to six years and been loving my team so far. Do you lead a team?

1:05:47I hope to one day but not right now. But you love your team. Okay, so I think that that could be your hook. So I think you could say like, I'm a code monkey, aka software engineer. The best part of my job is playing with code all day but also like hanging out with my team. Yes. Then you're giving me a lot of hooks that I can then say next. Any body language questions from your body language looks great. You're making eye contact. I love your visible hands. You already watched my Steven interview. Oh, this is sometimes. Okay. Perfect. So I think it's great. Mutual laughing is really good too. I like that.

1:06:15That's great. If you're ever nervous, just just laugh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You guys can go really well. Okay. You got this. Okay. So this is exactly what happens with highly competent folks is they have an answer to the question that's just the answer. That's not how good conversation works. Master communicators make it very easy for people to ask a follow -up question or to get hooked in. So whatever your answer is as a leader, you want to give people enough hook to be able to be like, oh, I want to know more about that. Suffer -entrier didn't do that for Tim. Now her response to this question is terrible.

1:06:47Terrible. Did you see what happened in the date? No. Oh my goodness. So what do you do? Cheers to you, yourself. I am an AI consultant and I make tech content. Oh, okay. Yes. In the tech space. In the tech space. Yes. What about you? I am a code monkey. Or a code monkey? Yeah. Oh no. No, that's not where I engineer. No, I love my job. Tell them something good. Okay.

1:07:18Yeah, we love code monkeys. Yeah, I know. I used to be a code monkey. No way. Yeah. You used to, um, for like six years, seven, maybe. Yeah. Did you like it? Um, I did, but I, okay, I thought I liked it and then I realized I didn't. No way. Yeah, it was like one of those things where after it's over, you're like, wait a second. I wasn't that happy. Yeah, I have to say, I don't think you should call himself a code monkey. Yeah, it's a bit, it's demeanor. Yeah, and also people people don't know what it is. Really? Like I didn't even really know what it was. I was like, what? But it sounds kind of her reaction was telling us, but oh no.

1:07:55Oh no. And so, so she says, oh no. So first of all, I said to her afterwards, why did you do that? If you disagree with someone, you can disagree with them, but then give them something else. So she was basically like, oh no. And then he's like, yeah, I love what I do. Yeah, but I think he has responsibility there because he shouldn't describe himself as a code monkey, anything. Yeah. The minute you sound like you are a, like a involuntary slave to something against your will. Totally. If I said I was a podcast monkey, you wouldn't think, you wouldn't think, oh, amazing, I'm so happy for you, would you?

1:08:31No. I'd be like weird. Exactly. It's the word monkey that they're adding makes it seem painful. I think you're right. He killed a better answer. And this is like, this is the takeaway for leaders. Is what question are you asked all the time? I know people in business are asked the same question all the time, either networking or in their business pitches. I always think this is when I watch dragons, then or shark tank is like, you were, you knew this question was coming. You want to have a really, really good answer. And so making sure that you're ready for the answer and the more stories you can use, the better.

1:09:01Right? That's why I'm like, I want you to start with that note in your phone and all the stories of all the different topics that come up. Is it so important to have good answers with those questions that you know are coming your way? What's a great answer then? Give me an example of a great answer. So if I'm in the CEO of a media company, what's a great answer? So someone says, what do you do? Yeah. I'm a CEO of media company. So you want to start with clarity. Yeah. What is it exactly you do? I don't like people who have like these crazy weird metaphors for like, right? So tell them what you do.

1:09:27I'm a CEO of media company. And we work with amazing clients like. So tell me who's the best client you worked for, the most interesting client you worked for. It's the most interesting project you worked for. Like tell me that story or tell me how you moonlight. So if your job is boring, be like, oh, you know, I'm a CEO of media company, but I garden my free time. Like give me the side hustle. So I can say, oh, what kind of media? Or tell me about the gardening. So give an interesting story about who it is you work for or give me a side hustle that's really interesting or passion. And I heard you say that using the word because as a leader is important to get people to come with you.

1:10:06Humans need reasons. When there is a reason, even if it's a silly reason, it helps us feel more motivated. So it was a very, very silly study that was done that looked at this, where they had people go up to a copy machine in a library and ask, can I make copies? Now, everyone who's in the line for the copy machine has to make copies. They found that people who went up to the line to cut the line and said, excuse me, can I make some copies? They got rejected. They were like, no dude, get them back online. We're all making copies. But if someone said, excuse me, can I make copies? I really have to copy this.

1:10:40Like with a reason, people were more likely to let them cut, even though it was exactly the same thing as the first thing. The point of the study was to show that if you have a because, even if it's a silly because, people are more likely to do things for you. Now, I don't love this idea, but an important point for us is you want to know your why. That's why I said, tell people who you help. So if you're a CEO and media company, who you help is your most interesting client. Or if you're a life coach, don't just say, I'm a life coach, or I'm a consultant. I'm a life coach. I help women who really want to get the nutrition under control.

1:11:16Then I know who you work for. That's your why, and that gives someone a reason. Or, you know, I really love to work with you. I think that I could really, really change your nutritional outlook and put you in more control of your nutrition. That because, even though it's implied, you know, you already heard it. It hooks someone in to go, ah, if they have a why, I can buy it into that why. And I don't think you did a very good job on that. However, he was very warm with her, even though he wasn't into it. I think that was very respectful. How are either of them supposed to know if the other person is attracted to them?

1:11:44Exactly. This is why I'm doing what I'm doing. The number one thing that is causing loneliness is we are withholding our liking, both with friends and in romance. With all of these daters, none of them, 0 % showed any kind of obvious liking. How are we going to have babies? How are we going to have marriages if we're withholding our liking? How are we going to have friends if we don't know if someone likes us? I think we should be going around showing, amplifying our likes the people that we're with. So how do I signal that I like someone? And how do I know if they like me? Okay, so verbally, I think it's very easy, right?

1:12:22You can be very direct and be like, oh my gosh, this is so much fun. So like my magic phrases, right? If someone is interesting, funny, likeable, fun, say in that moment, ah, this is so fun. This is so interesting. Being with you is always so interesting. So that's one way you can do it is affirming the adjective that you're already feeling and saying it out loud. Right? I think that Kendrick was very funny. And I actually said to him in our pre interview, I was like, oh, you're really funny. That must be a double -edged sword. He was the first guy. The first guy. Yeah. I said, you're really funny and that made him feel really good.

1:12:57He was like, oh, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I think that's good, but also probably it's harder to get depth. He's like, yes, that's true. So if someone is funny, interesting, delightful, a good computationalist, tell them that's the first thing. I don't withhold that. We don't tell people, do we? Never. We don't tell people. It's just thinking about a meeting I had last week and I was thinking, if I had to start that meeting just by telling the person what I thought of them, a really positive thing, it would have completely probably made them feel good. Yes. Because about your point about giving them serotonin or...

1:13:24And it makes you more likeable. Like we like people who like us. So the more obvious you are with your liking, actually just makes you more likeable. So affirming them, making sure that you were thinking of them. So like, I was just thinking of you, I was looking forward to this, I've looked forward to this all day. And then non -verbal liking. So for men, vocalizations, hmm, ah, oh, we love those. We love a triple nod, we love a head tilt, we love a lean, all of those, you know what I'm saying? Oh, you know, there was something funny that I read recently, which is, women list humor as a number one trait they want in a man.

1:14:02Men don't care as much about humor in a woman. They want a woman who laughs at their jokes. Of course. Which I thought this was so good and so helpful that for a man, yes, it's good if you can work on being funny, because women do like it. But if you're a woman, you actually don't have to be that funny. You just have to be willing to laugh. And that brings me back to liking. Being an easy laffer, like being ready to laugh is one of the most likable, complimentary things you can do for someone else. That was good. Thank you. Was this real? Or not real? No, we like it. Well, that's a very believable laugh.

1:14:46It was good. There's sometimes people will like, with hold their laughing or like, they'll be like, oh, that's funny. Right? So being an easy laffer is also like the fastest way to tell someone I like you. When we laugh, we are absolutely showing we like someone. So nonverbal and verbal liking is like very fun. What if you're not funny? Because a lot of people, we've sort of categorized ourselves as being a funny person or not funny person. So is there a way if you're not funny to be funny? Yes, and it's being the best passenger ever. If you're not a joke teller, the joke teller is the driver.

1:15:16Right in a conversation. They're telling funny stories, they're showing funny anecdotes. They're very funny. They're driving. Well, drivers need passengers to laugh at their jokes. So you are going to be the best passenger ever. You're going to laugh at the joke. You're going to bang on the table. I love table bangers. You know, I have people in my life who are not very funny, but they love to bang on the table when I tell a funny joke and that makes me feel so good. They don't need to be funny. I'm happy to try. Right? So if you're not funny, just be very good at hyping up other funny people.

1:15:45You also could be a curator of funny. You find the best funny gifts. You find the best funny clips. You share the best funny posts. Like, you don't have to be funny to be a curator or a funny. Like, I have a friend who's not that funny, but he has the best clips and memes that he sends me. And so I think it in this funny, even though he's never told a joke. He's just passing on other people's funny. Totally, but it's associated with him. But that does make him funny, because he knows how to select funny. Because I've got a friend who sends like the worst gifts. But it's not funny. They're never funny ones.

1:16:15But does it make you laugh? I'm gifts. I'm gift. What are you? They're gifts and so are gifts. I'm so excited. I'm going to sad soul. I've got one friend, my friend Ashie sends five gifts. But I got another friend who I shot named. Yeah, please don't name him. No, just give him a zizzi. He literally sends not funny gifts. We've all got a friend that sends like the bad meme. And he's like, they drop it in the chat, and everyone's like, thumbs up. You know? But like, doesn't it make you kind of laugh? Don't you love them for it? I love them. But I think could they improve their meme game? Yeah. Like, I wouldn't take the risk.

1:16:47I'm hit me fire emojis in a long time. I would be my high conviction. OK, that was them. That was me. If I'm like, I'm not that funny, I can learn to be funny. Do you think you can learn to be funny? I think I have. Like, I think I've learned to be a little bit funny with like my sense of humor. I think I'm taking improv class. Really, really taking improv class. A lot of humor is just trying things and seeing if they land. So if you're not funny and you want to be and like something to go to work on, take an improv class and work on being funny on stage, I also think you can study funny people and see how they make their jokes.

1:17:19And you could have the same jokes. For example, I have a friend who whenever he's over at our house and I say, babe, to my husband, he goes, yes, and it's always funny. It's always funny. It's the only joke he really makes, but I love it. And so I think you can also have like sort of jokes that you've figured out that you just use over and over again. And touch. Is that a cue of interest? Yes, I love touch. But you have to be a little bit careful with it because if you do it in authentically or awkwardly, it's like a total fail and looks terribly horribly wrong. I love a high five. Like I love like, oh my gosh, that was great.

1:17:52Yes. Oh my gosh, we're both into that. Like I love like you're making a funny mistake. I mean, you can pull off high fives. What? Like, I don't know whether this is a British thing or not, but if I started high fiving people in meetings, people would think I was very strange. No, I think people would like it. No, I think it's, I think people have like a model of you. Okay. Okay. I think they understand like the upper limits of your enthusiasm when you're excited, you know, your playfulness. I think high fiving. It's outside your bubble. To my major, do you know, do you remember out there? Of course.

1:18:24She could high five. She could get over there. Of course. Because that's like, I think I have high five. There you go. Yeah. Okay, so all right. Find your favorite. You have a flavor. Yeah. Right? Everyone is a flavor. Your flavor is not high fiving, but it's probably something else. Like a dry sense of humor. In fact, they did a study where they looked at worriers and notewaries, like neurotics and not erotics. Neurotics are known for making self -deprecating jokes and we like it about them. Like they're constantly making fun of themselves and we like it. Whereas low neurotics, people who are not warriors who are like really confident, they love to make jokes about other things but never about themselves.

1:18:55So like everyone has like their flavor and that's good. You got to find it. And you should study people who are like you. Right? Like there has to be, like I love to watch, like those talk shows like, you know, Jimmy Kimmel or whatever. And I pay attention to the interviews that have more than one laugh every 30 seconds. So my goal in a keynote, like I give a lot of keynote's organizations, I try to have a laugh every minute, if I can. I think that if you have a laugh every minute, you're considered funny and that actually opens up the brain to more learning. So on interviews, I pay attention to who are the interviews?

1:19:27What are the interviews with? They're getting a laugh every 30 seconds, 30 to 60 seconds. And I pay attention to how are they doing it? And that is how I've learned to be funny. Like for example, like a really easy one for humor I've learned is like if you have like one, two, three things and the third thing is weird, people almost always laugh. So if you're like, oh, you know, Texas is great. What's the land of tacos, cowboy hats, and hot girls? Like if you make the third thing a weird one, people kind of like, like the thing that's funny. And so like if you had, like you can begin to play with those things if you learn, but I've noticed that as a pattern, just like anecdotally by watching people.

1:20:02So I think that you could find someone who's like you. Like you should find a British smart guy. Who's a British smart guy who's funny? Jack, Jack smart. Jack. And just like see what kind of jokes they're making. I bet you those jokes will work for you too. They do. Yeah, I still like steel jokes from British smart. For sure. It's like I think that works. I also think there was a study that was done about like charisma and we're talking about master communicators, especially leaders. I work with a lot of leaders. And what I tell them is you can actually channel your role model that will completely change your body language.

1:20:32They asked presenters to present on stage, a little one -minute presentation, which by the way, very hard to do if you're not a presenter. So they have to have them give a little presentation on stage. And they took them off and they said, okay. Now we want you to channel Steve Jobs and give another presentation. I don't tell anyone what you're doing, but just in your mind, just channel him. When they got on stage, they were more charismatic. They used more vocal variety. They used more hand gestures. They were more confident. They spent almost double the amount of time on stage. And I liked it more.

1:21:00Simply by channeling Steve Jobs. So I share this because I think you don't necessarily have to be funny or charismatic on your own. But if you're channeling the most funny person you know or the most charismatic person you know, it can transform your vocal and nonverbal cues to be more like that person. And micro expressions? Yes. Okay. I feel like when I ask you a question, every question is your favorite question. I have something that are not my favorites, but you haven't asked them yet. Okay, good. Okay, good. This is what got me into this work. It was actually micro expressions. So there are many people, especially if you have narcissists in your life who misinterpret neutral expressions as negative.

1:21:39So one of the problems I had early on that caused me to be awkward is I thought everyone hated me. I thought everyone was angry at me. So I had misinterpreted the expression. I would think they hate me, which made me even more awkward. It was a very bad cycle. So one of the first things I discovered with this work where I was like, why doesn't everyone know this? I was 20 years old. And I stumbled upon this idea that some of our expressions are universal. That across cultures and genders and races, we make the same facial expressions for the same emotions. Now there's some controversy about my current expressions and how universal they are.

1:22:10But there's seven that we've found have a lot of universal applications and I would love to teach you those seven. Please. Okay, let's actually start with fear. So fear is a universal response. And when we make this face, it helps keep us safe. It's when we widen our eyes. So our eyelids are upper white's show. We raise our eyebrows up and we usually open our mouth. Like that. The reason we make this face innately is because if we see a tiger like back from caveman days, our mouth opens, takes an oxygen, and opens the case we have to yell for help or run for our lives. Our eyebrows and our eyelids lift up so we can take up and as much as much of this face as possible.

1:22:51The safest face I can make as a human is this one. Right, I can say anything. I can take an oxygen and I can see as much as possible. That is why we make that expression when we feel fear. When we see it and you see it a lot in business environments, you are spotting, oh, I just tapped into a little bit of nervousness and it typically happens around confusion. So I will sometimes be giving a presentation. I'll notice someone will go and I know I just said something that they didn't like or they made the nervous or they make some feel a little bit afraid. And I can say, this makes sense. Are we all good?

1:23:26Let me rewind and re -explain that again. So I spot the fear and I immediately address it. So what you want to look for is those upper whites of someone's eyes. That's how you know that someone just triggered you triggered a little bit of nervousness in them. When you say upper whites of someone's eyes, what you mean? I literally mean the upper whites appear. So not lower. Like when I'm afraid, my eyes peel up so you can see the upper whites of my eyes. It's very unnatural to do that. Like you would never do that normally. We do that when we're actually feeling afraid. Now I tend to raise my eyebrows up to show like a punctuation, but this is like, it's a much bigger expression.

1:23:58Yeah. So when you see it, make sure that you immediately address it. So you call that fear. Okay. So fear is the first one. The second one that I want to talk about is disgust. So disgust is a very negative emotion. We make it when we don't like something. So it's when we crinkle our nose up and flash the upper whites of our teeth. Yeah, it's a space. We do it to inhibit our nasal passages. Like when we smell something bad or taste something bad. But interestingly, we also do this and we don't like something we hear or see. I see this a lot with lie detection. So we do a lot of lie detection research.

1:24:34And I've noticed lying makes people feel dirty. We do not like to lie. And so people will often lie as they'll make the disgust expression as they're lying. So I'll say, you know, so what do you think of the new guy? Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, he's pretty good. And they hold this expression up. Look for secret disgust if you ask someone a preference -based question. If they're lying, they will often show disgust because they're literally disgusted with themselves probably to make that distinction. So it's inhibitor and you always want to look up here. We don't do that naturally, right? We don't do that naturally at all.

1:25:09So that's a really good one to look out for. Also, you can predict behavior better with disgust. Right? So if you ask someone a question and they go, you know that they're not in a good headspace. That's when you immediately want to get permission. Hey, look, I'm on your side. I'd rather just know what you really think. I have prevented lies by giving someone full permission to just tell me the truth. Yeah, I think I pull that sometimes when I don't want to do something. So someone might say, do you want to go to this restaurant? I go. Yeah. And you don't even realize you're doing it because we make it accidentally.

1:25:43It looks like I'm mulling that actually I've given away that I actually don't want to go. And why not be in a relationship so we can say, hey, look, we're good. We don't have to get our dinner. Or like I much rather say that. Okay, that's disgust. Angers are really interesting ones. So anger, they did computer -generated faces. And they found that when you make the components of anger, it makes your face look stronger. The people perceive you as stronger. So the reason we make this from an evolutionary perspective is because when we are angry, it makes us look physically strong, which makes sense before we get into a fight.

1:26:11So anger is when we usually tense our lids. We pinch our shoulders together and we harden our lips. And we often jut our jaw out. So jut your jaw at me. Before a fight, people often will be like, what's up? What's up? They jut their jaw out. Because it makes you look stronger. It's a way of like showing territorial gestures. And we also tense our lips and tense our eyes. This makes us see better. So right before a fight, you look confused. Okay, so, so hard in your lips. Yep. I don't know how to handle my lips. Oh, you actually did it perfectly. Just a second ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you see those vertical lines appear and then your chin out at me.

1:26:51Yeah, that's like, what are you doing? I don't like this. And if you hold that expression, you'll begin to feel angry and defensive. And that weird. Yeah. So it makes you look strong. That's why we make that face. I always look out for in the business environment. You don't often see that full anger, right? But you will often see a chin jut. So if I'm like in a meeting where I'm a team call and I'm looking at it, someone goes, yeah. I know that I've just made them a little bit angry. Typically in anger, people do two things. They go on the offensive or the defensive. I want to prevent either. So when someone's angry, they go, it's not my fault.

1:27:26It's your fault. Offensive. Or they go on the defensive. Not my fault. I don't want that, right? So they'll often attack or they get very defensive. I want to disengage that completely. So I'll say, hey, look, we are on the same page. If you see someone on an anger, you want to immediately go into shared mutual understanding, mutual goals. OK, so that's anger. And let's talk about a good one, which is happiness. So happiness we've talked about before, which is the only true expression of happiness is when the happiness reaches all the way up into our upper cheek muscles all the way up here. I know I've tried so hard with this money, since we lost my, but it's really not going well.

1:28:00But when you are happy, like when you laughed early or authentically, it does it automatically. It already does it. So it's this upper cheek muscles. When we reach those upper cheek muscles, don't fake smile. I'd rather you real smile. That looks good. Does that actually? Yeah, yeah, it was good. Oh, yes, I like it. I'm always in lookout for fake smiles, right? Like, especially in the work setting, is if someone, especially in sales, I do a lot of sales trainings. If someone's like, oh, yeah, I love this, but they don't love it. You're not done selling, like keep building rapport. So you're looking for the absence of real happiness.

1:28:30That's what you really want to learn. And that's really, you said it's about this section. Yeah, this section of your face. So this should go up. All the way up. Yes. And you remember, anyone can fake smile. It's all in your upper cheek muscles. All in your upper cheek muscles. Here. Yeah, like that. That's it. That's why you have to be careful with Botox. Because there's a lot of, I could talk a lot about Botox if you want to, but when people on Botox are smile wrinkles, they actually feel less happy. So there's a feedback hypothesis of when you show an emotion, you actually begin to feel the emotion.

1:29:05So people who have Botox are smile wrinkles can't make a true happy face and actually feel less happy. It's also the same with negative emotions. So if you Botox your anger, you'll actually feel less angry. They've started to use it for anger management, is if you Botox your anger, muscles, you actually are less volatile. So it's all kinds of things that happen with our face when we begin to change it. Okay, so that's anger. Sadness. Sadness is the most contagious of all the expressions. So sadness is the hardest one to fake. It's really hard to do. So the first thing is you pull your mouth out into a frown and then you puff out your lower lip, and then you pinch your eyes together and kind of droop your lids.

1:29:46Uh -oh, made you gone. You know what's funny is if you make a sadist expression it will either make you yawn or cry. Are your eyes watering? Yeah, it worked. I think the yawn made the eyes war. But it's all part of the same system. All right. Isn't that crazy? It's so funny, yeah. Isn't that weird how that happens? So you know you've made a good facial expression or a good sadist session when you actually begin to tear up. They found that when babies want attention, they pout out their lower lip. Because we find it quite cute. Right? When babies do that, we're like, oh, we need to help you. So it's actually the evolutionary that when we do that, it actually is a way that we get help.

1:30:18So when I see that downward frown, you'll pull their mouth into downward frown. I know that something is going on for them. And I'm careful with this at work especially. It's empathy, compassion, or space. Like if someone's going through something at work, you don't always want to be like, well, tell me about your divorce. Go ahead and tell me about that. No, you might want to be like, look, if this is not a good time for a meeting, we can reschedule. We don't have to do this right now. So I think that space is sometimes the best thing. Or can I help? But it's hard to tell the difference. It's hard to tell.

1:30:51So you've just got to ask. Yeah. And I think that's the mistake that people make when coding emotions is they think that they have to rely completely on their own reading. No, if you see an expression, you don't know what it means. They're like, hey, all good. Are you good? Do you want to tell me anything? Like asking for clarity, no matter what the emotion is, whether it's good or bad is always good. A little trick I also use. If you want to calm someone down and you're not sure what's bothering them, name an emotion you think it is and have them correct you. So I will often use the word upset because people will almost always correct you.

1:31:26So I'll say, are you upset? No, I'm not upset. I'm angry. Oh, good. Now, at least on the same page, I know that you're angry. Interesting. And that really works well. Sometimes that winds people up. But at least you hit the truth. Truth does start the conversation. Yes, and it gets you the truth of like, what are they actually feeling? Okay, we did those ones. Contempt and surprise, I believe, are last. So we'll do content last. Surprise is a very easy one. It's actually the longest of the micro expressions because we want to see it from far away. But we just like go as wide as possible. Surprise is not positive or negative.

1:31:57The most important thing about surprise is the difference between surprise and fear. Here's why. If I say to you, did you know about that email that was going to be sent out on Monday to the whole team? Surprise. I had no idea. Or says, fear I didn't know. So surprise versus fear is very important when you're trying to gauge to someone know something or not know something. It works really well with kids and teenagers too. Because they're bad at hiding it. They're really bad at hiding it. And so like, if you're like, did you, did you take my phone? Probably not or probably did. Right? Like, you know, another, I think, did I tell you my hair with kids also nodding?

1:32:33nodding cues work really well with kids and partners. If you didn't hear from me, where if we, when we nod yes in this culture, it means yes. When you nod, no, it means no, or suddenly, with a kid, you can have to be like, do you want to go to the playground or do you want to stay here? Oftentimes they will pick the one that you associated with positive cues because they are reading your cues to figure out what the better choice is. So oftentimes with that kids, I'll be like, do you want to wear this shirt or do you want to wear that shirt? And I'll show disgust and they're like, well, this one, obviously.

1:33:06So you can also associate cues if you want to encourage someone to make a choice if you know that both choices are the same. Right? The kids work really well. Okay, the last one is contempt. Contempt is scorn, disdain, pessimism. It's a mark of superiority and that's why it's so dangerous. When someone feels contemptuous, they're often feeling better than you or they know better than you or they think better than you. In marriages, it's particularly damaging. Dr. John Gottman found that when he observes silent videos of a couple, he can predict with 93 .6 % accuracy that that couple will get divorced within 30 years.

1:33:48If one member of the couple shows contempt towards the other, that basically, if you're in a relationship and someone is contemptuous of the other person, so they show a one -sided mouth raise, contempt is a one -sided mouth raise or a smirk. Yeah? If they show that, it means they feel better than that person. And if that is not addressed, it besters and it grows in a disrespect and hatred. So Gottman looks for contempt because he knows if someone in the couple feels contemptuous of the other person, they feel better than that person. And that is not an equal marriage. Is that the only way that it comes out?

1:34:21The smirk is the most reliable way that contempt can come out. Okay. Measurably. Right? Why put the eye roll? You know, an eye roll can be sort of silly. But like, I could, like contempt, no matter the context, is not good. Right? Like if someone is like, I don't think so. You know, they feel better than. That's never a good thing. And I really could be like, oh, you're being so silly. Right? So like, contempt is the one expression where one, you don't want to accidentally show in your profile picture. So never show an asymmetrical smile. And two, if someone is showing you contempt, you have some rapport building to work on.

1:34:57Now, you don't know what that contempt is. It could be about you. It could be about the relationship. It even could be about self -contempt. Right? But you want to immediately be like, what is going on? What are you feeling? What's going through your mind? What questions do you have for me? To make sure you're addressing whatever the reason for that contempt is, it doesn't investor. It builds, it doesn't it, with relationships. Is it, do you think there's any turning back? When you've, because people will think about the people they know in their lives. And there'll be some relationships where they've kind of built up contempt over time.

1:35:25So the minute you see this person again, you're already kind of on edge. You're probably already smacking I wrote in whatever. The only way, the only way is shared experience. Talking more usually doesn't get it. Like you can talk more. But if you have shared experiences where you're building oxytocin or you're building adrenaline, you're doing something new together that scares you both a little bit, it creates all kinds of chemical connections and bonds. And that's why sometimes when people go on like a couple's retreat or a big couple's trip, it resets them. It really resets them chemically.

1:35:55If you are showing contempt, you might disrespect that person. You have to go into shared activities where you can build respect back. Can we change? Can we, I guess this is a question that a lot of people, well, it's quite foundational to learning from you and listening to you is just like, deep belief that we can change who we are. Because so many of us think that we're kind of stuck in our personalities. And that they are rigid and that they come from our trauma, our childhood, our genetics. But as it relates to my personality, I guess what is my, what is a personality? And can I change my personality?

1:36:31Should I change my personality? You can kind of change your personality. That's probably not the answer that you want. But they've actually researched this. And when you look at personality, it's composed of five main traits, known as ocean, openness, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. Every person on the planet Earth has these five traits, and they fall in a spectrum. High, medium, or low. These traits are somewhat heritable, somewhat genetic. So there is a portion of our genetics we cannot change. For example, personality traits are somewhere between 42 to 57 % heritable, meaning some of it is just literally our genes expressing themselves.

1:37:12But that still gives us quite a bit of wiggle room. What I like to focus on is, if you are low on the spectrum and let's say neuroticism, which is how you worry, you cannot become low, you cannot become highly neurotic. It's too big of a swing. But you could probably dial up to medium if you wanted to, or if you were high, you could probably dial down to medium. So you have, let's say, 30 to 40 % potential for change. So if you want to change your mindset, your goals, your personality, you have about 30 to 40%, I think freedom to grow or change in a way that you want to if you're purposeful. Can you give me the definition of those five?

1:37:49Yes. Okay, so openness, openness is how curious you are, how open to new experiences you are, how creative you are. I think it's why you're willing to have new people in this setting. Is you like having new questions? You're highly open people are extremely curious. The opposite is low open. Low open folks love habit, tradition, routine. Jack just said I was a control freak though. Yeah, control is not about openness. Okay. Right? Like you're willing to move around the world and really to meet a lot of new people. Low open people want everything to be the same. They don't want to travel. They don't want to experience new things.

1:38:27And the reason for this is actually found that highly open people have a certain form of gene called DRD4, which means that when they experience something new, they get an extra load of dopamine. That is why extremely how people are adrenaline junkies. They seek really new experiences all the time, because they want that dopamine hit. They actually get more dopamine when they try new things. Low open people have less dopamine for new experiences. So they're like, why would I go travel when I have my perfect set of bright here? They are, I think what's really important about personality is there is no bad.

1:39:01There's no wrong. We want diversity of personality because our high opens, they explore. They're the ones trying all the new things. Our low opens honor our traditions and our rituals. So in terms of finding a partner. Very important. If I were dating right now, I would probably make the data take a personality test so we could see if we're matched. I would literally, I put up this test for free. So I have a personality test. It is up for free. I think every single person should take it, know your own personality, and also know your best friends personality, your partner personality. What would you be looking for?

1:39:37Okay, so I know what matches really well together. A high open and a low open are going to have trouble. Okay, so someone who is spontaneous wants to try new things, new experiences, versus someone who just wants to say that I'm going to do the same old things, good and same restaurant. Yes, so let's talk about this very practically. I know very quickly. So yes, you could have, hopefully, have people take the test and then look at the results. Like you could actually screenshot it and look. If you're not sure, ask someone, what do you usually do for lunch? A high open will be like, oh, I love trying new places.

1:40:09The new thing, they always order the special every time. A low open person wants to go to the same restaurant with the same waiter or the same meal, and they would never try the special wire basket. Very different approach is the same thing. So in a relationship, every single meal are going to have a problem. Like it's really easy if you have the same level of approach to experiences. Entrepreneurs as a leader, leaders, very good leaders, are typically higher in openness. So it tracks for you that you're high in open, because you're willing to try new things, you're willing to risk it for the biscuit.

1:40:40You're willing to say, okay, I'm going to risk this new idea to see if it's going to work. I love risking it for the biscuit. I know. And that's because you're driven towards more high dopamine. However, high open entrepreneurs have shiny object syndrome, where they are constantly chasing new ideas. And it doesn't always work. No, not me. No, okay. I'm joking. Of course, yeah. Yeah, you do it, right? You do it. Yes, exactly. And that can be very distracting. So if you are working with a high open leader, you are probably extremely frustrated. They keep wanting to try new projects. Do you think if I'm building a company, I should look for people that are equal in openness to me, or should I look for counterbalance?

1:41:16That's it. Okay, are they going to frustrate me? They are going to frustrate you, but they're going to keep you in check. True. Right, like you should never have your CFO as a high open person. True, that's very true. That's so interesting. Right. So like the best people, like the diversity of hiring is so important in personality. The mistake I see in corporate, because I do personality trainings for corporate, managers hire their same personality. And they're all having the same problems. They can never have follow through. And that brings me to conscientiousness. Conscientiousness is where I think opposites attract.

1:41:49This is where I think that works. Conscientiousness is your approach to detail. So it's high contentious people love. Like I'm high conscientious. I love alphabetizing. I love color coding. Office supplies make me so happy. I love post -it notes and files. I like purses with 15 different compartments. Am I losing you? Yeah, you've lost me. Okay, I lost you. Yeah. Because you're medium open. Yeah. I mean, sorry, you're medium conscientious. I mean, all the things you just described, I'm absolutely none of those things. Right, because you're medium. But I like detail in work. I like work to be gray.

1:42:25And I like us to care about details, but I'm not like organized in the way that you described. Right. And also, you're not doing all the details. No. Right, you have a team doing the really difficult details of the research or the editing, because you can do it. But you're not super, super conscientious. I'm super, super high conscientious. So I love the details. I have a color coded calendar for my family. For example, I'm the only one who looks at it. Which always shows more like that. So highly successful people typically are more conscientious. And this is what we have to remember is they've studied this.

1:42:54Two low conscientious people in a marriage have more financial problems. Yes. So unfortunately, this is one where high contentious can help you a lot in marriage with finances in business. But medium is okay. So if you're low, you can work on dialing up your contentiousness with tools, with training, with habits books. That's why habits books are always in the bestseller list. It's because all the low congenges, the meeting conscious people of the world know, if I want to be successful, I just have to get more habits. By the way, on the first date with Ashley and Kendrick, Ashley said that she had a spreadsheet for how she spends her days.

1:43:30And he was like, whoa, a spreadsheet. And she showed in that answer that she was super high congencious. That is really good to know in a new relationship is someone's higher low congencious. A high congencious person, they will never be late, but they get very mad if you're late. So it's really good to know the conscientiousness of your team and of your partner so you can better predict their behavior. Is there an element of neurodivergence here as well? Because I'm thinking if someone has ADHD or... Yes, I think that they're actively studying this now. I think neurodivergence, neurodiversity, there is personality trends with that.

1:44:03I don't know exactly what they are yet, but they're looking at how does the neurodivergent community deal with conscientiousness or openness? I know that also, for example, neurodivergent folks have a different chemical response to even eye contact. So I talk about eye contact a lot, but I have to be very aware of my neurodivergent community. I contact as harder for them. And that is because when they're connecting, they want to be processing and thinking. So it's much harder, more distracting for them if they're making eye contact. So there's a lot of ways in which they are having a different response to an interaction or a connection.

1:44:34Okay, extroversion. So this is the one that... This is the cool kid, I call it the cool kid of personality, is that everyone talks about extroverts and introverts. But actually ambaverts are much more interesting to me. And most people are ambaverts. They fall somewhere in between extrovert and introvert. Introverts get energy from being alone. Extroverts get energy from being with others. Ambaverts can dial up in extrovert energy, but they need a lot of recharge time. I slept 11 hours last night in preparation for this interview. I knew that it was going to be a lot of intense interaction time.

1:45:05So I want a lot of flat laying in bed time. Because I'm ambavert leaning towards introverts. I get energy from the right people, but I can't do a lot of socializing. Are you like this off camera? Like if I asked your husband what you're like, when if I said to your husband, do an impression of Vanessa, show me what that impression would look like, Vanessa at home. It would be this, but weirder. Like I'm like, I'm like a weird person at home. But we'd be totally like this. But bigger, because at home, I'm really comfortable. Like I'm a silly mom. Like with my girls, like I'm dressing like a dinosaur.

1:45:34I'm doing dance routines. Like I'm very silly at home. He would probably say bigger if you were to ask him. Bigger. Yeah, like more animated than I am. You're more animated. Oh my gosh. Did you think I'm got animated? I thought you were pretty animated. Oh my gosh. I've even more animated probably at home. Really? Yeah, because I'm even more comfortable. Okay. I'm putting on plays with my girls. Like I'll do the whole Frozen soundtrack. I wouldn't do that for you here, but at home, I would. How many episodes we've got to do before you do the Frozen soundtrack? A billion. No one will be with us if we do a billion episodes.

1:46:06Okay, so extroversion is important. Now this happened on the date as well. Is he said I'm a super extrovert. And she said, oh, I don't go out that much. This can also be an issue in a relationship. If someone is super extroverted, they need lots of people time versus someone who is very introverted. They don't want the people time. That is constant tension in a relationship. You also have roles in a company where I'll notice that people will hire for a role where the role requires extroverting. For example, if you're in sales, you cannot be introverted. It's very hard to be introverted because you're having a cold call.

1:46:40You'll have a schmooz and build rapport. You have to enjoy those networking events. So it's important to factor in what is the ideal personality for this role. So for example, I have roles in my company where I actually don't want an extrovert. Like I don't want a chit chat. I don't want you socializing. Like I want you to be super high conscientious and really direct. I, we've had this where I've had a role where I had to let someone go because she wanted to chat too much. And I was like, I can't. I can't chat. I don't have capacity to chat. I just, like let's work right side by side, but don't talk to me.

1:47:19Kind of not really. Do you know what I mean? Where like I knew that our team wasn't extroverted enough for her. And so you want to really be careful about hiring a role for your personality. So extroverts. Okay. By the way, the best leaders are high extroverts. They found this. High extroverts. Yeah. What am I? To your middle. To your middle. To your middle. Yeah, middle. Middle. Makes sense. Like I think that if you were out schmoozing more, it might help your business. But might not might be distracted to you. But that's what the research says. I think if I was more extroverts, I'd be about a better leader.

1:47:54I think my business would be more successful. Because I think you'd have to find it easy to form new relationships. And we could dial that up for you. But you couldn't completely change. But like we could dial up your extroversion, but it would take a lot of energy. That's the thing is we can change anything we want. But you probably can only change it 30 to 40%. It's going to take a lot of energy. I mean, the question is, like do you want to do that? Okay. Agreeableness. Agreeableness is the hardest one to get. The agreeableness is your approach to teamwork. Highly agreeable people want everyone to like them and typically say yes to everything.

1:48:27They're agreeable. So the problem with agreeable people on a team is you ask them for something and they're like, oh sure, yes. I know, I know those people. But they shouldn't say yes. And that is because they so want to be liked. And they're so struggle with people pleasing and boundaries. They don't have enough value in their own boundaries. They say yes to anything, but they can't really do it. They have to be careful with a highly -grueled person because they often over commit. Yeah. I tend to find someone that's very agreeable. They, especially in the context of business, when you're trying to figure out what the correct answer is.

1:48:59So you have a problem and you're trying to pass out with the correct answer is, you never end up going to them because they will say either what they think you want to hear or they'll just take whatever your idea was. You never get good feedback from a agreeable person. Exactly. You never get honesty. Yes, because they can't. I have trouble with highly -grueled people as friends. And that's because they'll often I'll be like, hey, do you want to go to this concert in two weeks? Oh, yeah. And they can't tell me last minute. Always. Because in their minds, like maybe, but probably not, but they're afraid to tell me.

1:49:28You don't want your CFO to be agreeable. No. Now, let's talk about low -agribleness. Low -agribleness, those folks default to know. They are highly skeptical. They don't usually want, they will not do something for getting along. And because they default to know, they typically can be dream killers. Yeah. So if you're in a pitch or a presentation, they're like, not never work. Not never work. Or you know you're with a highly -alow -agribble person if they Google fact -check everything you say. Now, if no one leveraged them, they're like, I know when to leverage my low -agribal people. I know when I want to go to them.

1:50:03Like, my husband can be very low -agribal. In fact, leaders are often low -agribal. Because they can't say yes to everything. They have people in to say no. They have to willing to have people be angry at them. So I know when I go to my husband for an idea, I have to be ready for the dream killing. Because he's going to be hard on me. And that's good. The last one. My favorite neuroticism. Neuroticism is how you approach worry. So you're medium. A high neurotic is a warrior. This is me. High neurotics believe that worrying is an investment in failure prevention. Yeah. We worry to protect ourselves.

1:50:42And here's what's really important to know. Low neurotics are very emotionally stable. They usually don't worry. They say things like, don't worry about it. Or it'll all work out. They do that because they actually have a different chemical response to negative events. What they found is that high neurotics, like me, we carry the short form of the serotonin transporter gene. Serotonin makes us feel calm. It makes us feel like everything's going to be okay. High neurotics, we produce less serotonin more slowly. So something bad happens to me. Let's say I get a bad email. My adrenaline shoots up.

1:51:16My cortisol shoots up. I begin to worry. My body is slow to respond with the serotonin that will say, it's okay. It'll be okay. So I literally have a negative response for longer. That is why we worry. High neurotics chemically feel things worse than low neurotics. So in a relationship, low neurotics are like, why are you worrying about this? You can't do anything about it anyway. And the higher neurotic is like, because if it happens, it will feel very bad. And my serotonin hasn't kicked in yet. So my husband is low neurotic. I'm high neurotic. This is a great match. Is there a gender stereotype here?

1:51:52Yes. So women are typically higher in neuroticism and higher in agreeableness. So they've actually studied the difference between genders. Women are higher in neuroticism and agreeableness than men. Men are also typically higher in extroversion. So women are typically higher in worrying? Yes. And yes, people. And people pleasing. Yes. And men are typically lower in worrying and less likely to care about people pleasing. And more extroverted by nature, typically. We take our time when it comes to hiring at flight story, because I fundamentally believe the success of a business is directly linked to how good you are at hiring.

1:52:23And better hiring starts with smarter insights. LinkedIn, who's a sponsor of this podcast to some of the strongest hiring data available to help you identify the best candidates for your business, their platform will even pair you with those who match what you're looking for, which might lie outside of the job description and more in their unique skills and interests. Because these days, hiring isn't just about finding the most qualified person, but also finding the one whose experience abilities and interests align with your company's mission. And it goes beyond candidates who are applying for jobs too.

1:52:54In any given week, 171 million members who aren't actively seeking jobs are open to new opportunities. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn and start today by posting your job for free just by visiting linkdin .com slash D -O -A -C. So if I'm sad listening to this conversation right now and I'm sad next to somebody, then I'm like, I think they might be an narcissist. Oh no. Yes. And I'll turn to them now. So if you're sad next to so many thinks in our success, just turn to them and say, hey, we should do this personality test on Vanessa's website. What's school on the personality test what are you looking for to spot a narcissist?

1:53:31Oh goodness. Okay. So narcissists tend to be a higher in extroversion. They typically love to be around people because it feeds their narcissism. Again, that does not mean that all extroverts are narcissists. I don't know about contentious. I don't know if that correlates. Typically narcissists are lower in agreeableness because they believe in themselves so much. They're like, I don't need people to agree with me. I'm totally great by myself. Typically they're lower in neuroticism because they don't worry. They're like, everyone likes me. I'm so great. Why should I be worried? I don't know about openness.

1:54:05So luckily, whatever their answer is, you don't have to be too worried. But you do want to have a conversation that goes like this. I see that you're really low in neuroticism, which means you don't worry about things. When has that served you? And when has that not served you? The most important thing about personality is first, analyzing yourself. Knowing where you fall. Second is analyzing someone else. How do they fit with you? And the last step is do you optimize or compromise? A narcissist will not compromise with you. So you'll find out if they're a narcissist. If as you talk about the compromises, they won't.

1:54:41When they talk about how they're neurotic, they never had a problem with it. Oh, their agreeableness. It's always been great. Oh, their extroversion. They're perfect. The contentiousness. They do everything right. They've never made a mistake. Their openness. Their way is the better way. A narcissist typically believes their personality traits are perfect. Typically. So it's actually not their score. It's how they relate to the score. Interesting. It should be a red flag. And you said at the start, the conversation, certain personality traits correlate with longevity. Yes, they've studied this.

1:55:11So you want to guess which personality traits last the least the longest? Well, I'd say if you're high -conscious, then you're going to live pretty long. Number one. Because you're not going to take many risks. You're going to find out. But there's a close second. So high -conscious people are very good at habits. Exercising, brushing teeth, taking their medication. And there's one more that correlates to longevity. I'm going to say high extroverts. Yes. Because you make more friends. That's it. You have a partner. That's it. So if you are a high extrovert, you have a support system. You invest in your support system.

1:55:40And you're getting a constant dose of oxytocin in serotonin, which makes you feel so good, which makes you feel belonging, which means you seek out people who need it. Help. So who do you want to advise? Extroverts live longer. Yeah. Extroverts and high -conscious people live longer. You want to know who lives the shortest? Can you guess? You tell me. The people who live the shortest who have the lowest life span are high neurotics. We worry ourselves to death. We have more chronic stress, more anxiety, and more depression. So neurotics have an issue. And this is me. We have a problem with our serotonin.

1:56:14Right? Serotonin is very complicated. There's doing a lot of research on this. If I don't produce as much serotonin, and I produce it more slowly, I am having far more negative experiences than the same person in the room. Like, I'm in a car, and we almost get in a car accident. And I'm the high neurotic. That affects me all day long. I'm like, jeeterie and jumpy all day. And people are like, what are you talking about? We didn't even get an accident. It's because they're a serotonin kicked in right away, but you're producing them. They're like, oh, we're good. Whereas mine is like a slow, faltering car.

1:56:45It's like, I know people like that. I feel sorry for them. Exactly. And they don't live as long. So I am working very, very hard in my life to one, dial up my extroversion to have a really strong support system because I know that supports me both mentally and longevity -wise. But I'm also working on how to curb my neuroticism to dial down my worry to know that it's not an investment in worry prevention. Worrying more does not prevent bad things from happening, but having a resilience does. What about optimism and pessimism? You know, optimism is not a part of the personality spectrum. However, high neurotics tend to be more pessimistic.

1:57:22Okay. So the more you worry, the more you think bad things will happen. Did you hear about that study? A study in 2015, where they looked at the blood test results of extroverts found that they had stronger immune responses than introverts. It doesn't make that make so much sense. So extroverts, there's a lot of things happening for extroverts. One, is they're exposing themselves to lots of different immune systems. So they're getting more antibodies by exposing themselves to lots of different immune systems. But two, when they're with people, they're happier. If you're an introvert and you're with someone and you're unhappy and stressed, your cortisol is up, your adrenaline is up, you're not having as good of a time.

1:58:00Whereas an extrovert is getting all this energy, getting all this dopamine, which is feeling them, which is making them feel better, which makes them stronger. I was reading about something a couple of years ago as well that showed that if you have stronger social connections, it's like an insulator of stress. Yes. So if you're lonely and you experience stress, you physiologically feel it worse. It's stress insurance. Like investing in your friendships, the reason why I talk about it so much, it is stress insurance. And by the way, lifelong singles, they can predict lifelong singles. So lifelong singles, typically low in openness, which means they don't want to try new things.

1:58:37They don't want to go to new places. They don't want to go to new restaurants. They won't go out and meet new people because they're low in openness, low in extroversion, so they don't get energy from being around people. And they're low in contentiousness. They can't even plan it. That is the trifecta of, you're going to have a hard time meeting your friends, meeting your people because you don't get energy from people. You're not open to meeting new people. And you cannot have follow through with trying to get the habit to get those new people. This episode is really important for those people because it means, A, you're not alone.

1:59:07There's other people who have this, two, it could be your genetics at work. But I think that sometimes people get like down on themselves for it. I'm like, look like it could be how you're wired. You're not set upright to be getting energy from people. Okay, we have to work on that. That means we have to find the right people in the right situation. So if I have that person, I have a lot of lifelong singles who are my students. I say, okay, we can do this. We can do this. Okay, you don't get energy from people. You're a low extrovert. Where do you get energy? Knitting. Okay, books. Great. Hiking.

1:59:37Great. Extreme sports. Great. That's where I want you to hang out. I want you to get energy from the activity, not the people. So that way you're getting all this good stuff from the activity. Meeting people becomes a side effect. And it's easier to be extroverted to fight with that extroversion because you're like, oh, they're doing the same activity. And you don't even have to be high open. Because if you love that extreme sport, go to the same place every week at the same time, but do it all over the city. That way, the first time is going to be hard, but it's a ritual to have it. And then whoever is coming in new, that's your app.

2:00:10That's your old game people. So there's ways to do this. You just have to invest a little bit in it. I truly believe that lifelong singles can find their person. They just have to be looking in the right ways. Is it important for me to know someone else's personality type when I meet them? When you first meet them, you don't have to know their personality right away. However, they found that you can tell many of the personality traits from a handshake. From a handshake. So like, if we handshake... I'm trying to overthink it now. Right. She didn't shake my hand. I was like, overthinking it, because I was going to do...

2:00:43No, you're going to do. Don't only crazy. Okay. Okay. Pretend that we just met. Yeah, yeah. Pretend. Pretend. Oh, it's so good to meet you. Okay, so extroverts, shake firmer. I usually do this as well, so sometimes I do this. Very good. And that's typically a mark of extroversion. So like that speaks to like a little bit higher on the scale. We tell up from a handshake of the firmness, of the length, of the amount of pumps that happen. All of those things are informing that sort of like our brains, like figuring out someone's personality. So you can actually pay attention to what your instinct is.

2:01:14It's probably right. They've even found the weirdest. This is like the weirdest. They did a study where they observe people shaking hands. And they filmed them and found that in that minute after shaking hands, almost everyone touched their nose or their face. And they found that their nasal dilation increased. Meaning when we shake someone's hand, we're kind of smelling their hand. Like I smell you. It's so weird. It's so weird, but that's what we're doing. It's because we're trusting out something about their personalities. There's a lot, I think under the surface that we don't even realize is happening.

2:01:48Like I swear that when I shake a nervous person's hand and I smell my hand, I get a little bit nervous. Really? Yes, but I don't like to be around nervous people because they like trigger my own nervousness. Yeah. We're the weirdest thing ever. That's a pretty interesting thing. Like you get a vibe of people when you meet them. The vibe is real. Yeah, so real isn't it? That's that first impression that vibe is so real. Yes, that's why I encourage people to not go to places where they're uncomfortable because people will pick up on that vibe. Like go places where you thrive. Like go to the activity to do the things that you actually like because that's going to come across.

2:02:18It's going to affect your vibe. This is so true. I did something the other night actually with the team. Do you remember that thing we did the other night? I probably shouldn't say it. But I went to a place which I'm like really uncomfortable in. Oh, why'd you do that? Because they told me I had to go. Yeah. But you didn't like it. I hated every minute of it. Right. Your vibe was for sure off. And I looked at myself in the photos after I was like, fucking hell, you're having a terrible time. Yeah. Actually, you really don't want to be here. You can't on holidays. It's like my little thing. Yeah, you're like terrified.

2:02:45Yeah. You're probably like really afraid. So I think that like energy curation is important here. Yeah, so important. You can't fake it very easily. Can you when you see the vibe? I don't think we should try to fake it. Right? Like I would much rather use that yourself up for success and say no to the things that don't work for you. And there's one way that I kind of understand what I think about a person is my vibe because it's so interesting doing this podcast. Hundreds, hundreds, hundreds, hundreds of people. And within the first five seconds, I can feel them. Yes. And I don't know how to explain it other than, it's almost funny because I sit in my little room doing my research and then I'll come out and walk around the corner.

2:03:17And within like three to five seconds, I know whether we're good to go and we're ready and we're calm and we're or if there's something off. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That is real. There's something off. That is real. So when you feel that anywhere on a date with someone you're hiring on a team, you should trust that feeling because it is something that we cannot, we have not explained with science yet. It's pheromones. It's the shape of your face. It's the feeling of your hand and mind. There is something happening chemically, physically and you should trust it. Like have you ever been led astray from that?

2:03:55We have a closing tradition, as you know, on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next, not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question that's been left for you is, what are you doing on a daily basis to improve the life of someone else? And how can you serve others better?

2:04:16This is weird. Of course, of course it is. I knew I wanted to write books. I actually think of myself as a writer. I want to be a writer. I've always wanted to be a writer. When I started to be a writer in 2007, social media did not exist. Your job as a writer back then was to write books and maybe if you were lucky, you had a three -month book tour. To be totally honest with you, I did not know I was signing up for this. I did not. If you had told me that being a writer would mean sharing videos of my home and my personal life every day, I probably wouldn't have done it. I don't love that part of my job, to be honest with you.

2:05:04So I know, though, that I have to share on video every day, every day, right? To be able to get people to read my books. Which part of it don't you like? All of it? I mean, all of it. Which part to eat the most? Trying to synthesize something very complicated in the 60 seconds. I don't like it. I think communication is very complex. But I know it's essential to boil down a tip into a hook and then a framework. And I don't love that. And so when my career started to change, like I was writing books, then it was like, oh, it's 20 % of your job is marketing. Now 30 % of your job is marketing. Now 50 % of your job is marketing.

2:05:47Now writing books is six months of writing and the rest of your life is marketing. I did not sign up for that. So I get up every day and I post videos on my stories and on my social media and I do that to serve. I do not do that because I like it. And if I could skip it, I would. But I can't. That's how I'm able to write books. And so that is how I serve. Vanessa, you are an extremely rare force in this art form. Thank you. You really are. I love to, it's so funny on the podcast when I love having, I love the conversation I have with somebody and I walk away with it, feeling like I need to watch it back again and take notes because there's so many new concepts that feel so valuable to me.

2:06:32But then to see the way that the world reacted to you. Oh my gosh. It was incredible. It was unbelievable. It was insane. I feel like I met like 8 million new best friends. That's kind of what it felt like. I mean, as of now, I think the video is like 8 million. I don't even know if that doesn't even count audio. It's the most downloaded audio episode you've ever had of all time. So it means that's probably another six or seven million people or something. And it really did feel like I found my people. I felt like literally it was like finding 8 million new friends where I met 8 million recovering awkward, trying to connect, trying to figure it out.

2:07:09People who are like learners. And we were just flooded with love. And it re -energized everything that I do because I was like, I have got to help everyone. Like I have got to be more helpful. And so it was such a gift. Like, thank you for giving me the space and asking the questions because I just have met the most amazing people. You deserve it. Oh. It's a special gift. Thanks. It's blown my mind how desperate and hungry people are for this information. Vanessa, thank you so much for being here again. I really appreciate you. And thank you for the, you had a profound impact on our show. You brought millions of new people to our show.

2:07:42I had never listened before. So we owe you tremendously. And thank you for what you're doing. You're a very unique person. You have all the right balance of wisdom, articulation, you're challenging, but in the best possible way. So, and you're weird and you know you are, and you own it, which makes it admirable, endearing, and a force for change. Because so many other people out there are struggling to step into their own sort of weird, authentic selves. Vanessa, thank you so much for being so generous. You're a good time. It's wonderful to see you again. Thank you so much. Thank you for the, from the gazillions of people that stopped me in the streets and in the gyms and everywhere I went and sent me messages and just like, overwhelmed me with this like wave of appreciation because of that episode and shared it with their friends like crazy.

2:08:24Thank you on behalf of all of them too. Please keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, I will. Thank you. The hardest conversations are often the ones we avoid. But what if you had the right question to start them with? Every single guest on the diargo CEO has left behind a question in this diary. And it's a question designed to challenge, to connect and to go deeper with the next guest. And these are all the questions that I have here in my hand. On one side you've got the question that was asked. The name of the person who wrote it. And on the other side, if you scan that, you can watch the person who came after who answered it.

2:08:5751 questions split across three different levels, the warm -up level, the open -up level, and the deep level. So you decide how deep the conversation goes. And people play these conversation cards in boardrooms at work, in bedrooms, alone at night, and on first dates. And everywhere in between. I'll put a link to the conversation cards in the description below and you can get yours at thedirey .com.

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