Queer Eye Star Opens Up About Hitting Rock Bottom: Jonathan Van Ness

30:25I was still left with the scarring and I was still left with the patterns. Like I still, once I knew it wasn't like, I was like, oh, well now I don't want to fuck 20 strangers anymore. Like it wasn't like that. Like all of that pattern and all of that like, you know, feels insecure, once validation, won't stop till they get the validation. Then they feel insecure again for doing the thing and then it like it's just a cycle that like repeats itself all the time and we talk about that in sexual compulsivity. It's like the trigger and then like the trigger to do the thing and then you start cruising for the thing and then you do the thing and then the shame from the thing just makes you go right back into it.

31:00So it's just like cycle.

31:04So really it was just like understanding through so much like repetition of hurting myself. Like there's like, oh, I don't really want to do this. I don't feel better after I do this. Like I think I'm going to but then I don't. And so it was really just like through continually like really hurting myself and then going back to therapy like falling off the horse, getting back on. Like and also like Matthews has a huge part to do with this for a lot of queer people at least. And I mean, there are straight people as well by I think it's probably like lesser numbers because of like, you know, the whole like meth and sex like scene, which is, you know, quite prevalent in queer communities.

31:41So it was not quite prevalent but it's like prevalent. It happens. And so I think once the further away that I was able to get from meth, the easier it was for me to heal from because also it's like and I talk a lot about this and my new show fun and slutty. It's like sexuality isn't bad. Like sexuality is good. Expressing our sexuality is good. It's lack of consent, it's abuse, it's manipulation, it's doing things that you regret. Those are the things that are not good. But you know, decoupling that and like kind of understanding that and understanding like, are you doing this because you have a trauma response.

32:16And so you're doing this or you're doing this because you really, really want to do it. So there's like a whole, you know, conversation about like sex positivity to be had here too. And you know, a lot of people are really opposed to the idea of sexual compulsivity or sex addiction because they're like, that's really not sex positive. And maybe it's, you know, XYZ or whatever. But for me, I think it's way more important to recognize that like in my case, it was, I didn't feel good. And now I feel better. And I know a lot of people like myself who were able to like, you know, come more into a space of healing and more into a space of like balance with their like sexual self.

32:52So, but again, just like anything, that's never like all the way just like done and dusted. Like you're always in conversation with yourself and with your trauma and your behavior and like how you want to regulate that or express that. It would also be your miss to say like, I mean, I already had a lot of healing prior to meeting my husband and I think that's part of like why I even like, met him, you know, universally speaking anyway because I had done that work. But having a husband who I can be open with and honest with and who, you know, doesn't judge me for the things that I've been through and he can like create a safe space for, you know, to hold my stuff with me is really helpful as well.

33:30I was just chatting to some friends this weekend Friday about how we, I was trying to figure out because one of my, the people that I was with, the three of them, they're all single. They're seeking not to be single. And I was, I was saying to them that I found the right person in my life when I was not necessarily the, the completed version of myself, but I had to do a lot of work to even find that jigsaw piece that matched me as a different shape jigsaw piece. Like I had to do a lot of work. And I wasn't all the way there because I do feel like you go on a journey with that partner, but you have to kind of be aiming in the same direction at least.

34:07So I guess my question to you and this is a bit of a tangent is, what do you, what do you think about that about like the season where we find the right person? How much work do we have to do on ourselves to be ready when we meet that person? There's this other type of therapy that I love called Pact Therapy, which stands for like the Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy, which was invented by Dr. Stan Taken. So he created Pact Therapy. And so he talks about an insecure functioning relationship and a secure functioning relationship. So earlier when I was speaking about my mom and my set, that now is like that secure functioning relationship.

34:46My first relationship was an insecure functioning relationship with my first partner. That in conjunction with like my stepdad's illness and then just being like 24 and 25 out of my window of tolerance could not handle firefighters were activated. All fucked up, you know, like my life kind of, so that's that. So but Stan says that you can an insecure functioning relationship can turn into a function, a secure functioning one if both parties want it. And they're both willing to like work on themselves, work on the relationship. And also Stan says that like a lot of brokenness or like trauma in oneself can actually really be healed through that sort of like couples therapy.

35:25So I don't know if you really have to be like a more full, that whole thing of like two fully formed circles need to make the chain. Cause like if you're a fragmented, how are you, like you're gonna make a fuck up. So I think, I think we actually it pisses me off when people get too much into that like relational expert stuff, cause like just like we all have our own experience, like every relationship has its own experience. So we can like pull from some like, you know, what's that called like, like we can pull from some like data of, or like, but like not real day, like just like oratory, like you know, just people talking about it and telling us things.

35:58And well, my friend this and my friend that, but like ultimately I think that like there is, there's like a different path for everyone to find like their relationship and whether or not it starts. And I also think even in my marriage, like I feel like we've had moments that we got married after like six months, like in the middle of a fucking pandemic, like it was, you know, it was, it was a weird time, you know, cause we just started saying I love you. And then border shut down. And then I was like, if we want to keep, I don't know if I can just not get fucked by you for like years and like a respiratory pandemic, like I like, you know, like I think I need you to like get over here, but he was British and I'm American.

36:32And so we just were like, let's see what happens. And then once you get to the end of that SDV, so whatever, it's like, either got a good marriage. And so it wasn't the way I think either of us ever imagine that like we would get married, but like we are so happy. I'm so glad that we did. We've learned so much about each other. We were like, it's like, I'm so happy that we did. But like when I was little, I don't know if I was like, imagining that it would like, I get married like a backyard, like with only a judge, cause like, you know, no one's family could be there because there's not, you know what I mean?

37:04So something beautiful about that though. No, it was amazing. And I'm like so happy that we did it. But I think everyone can have like a different like a pro and just because you've had this or that or like, everyone just has like their own way. And I think that's like cool. movies fuck us up. They don't know. Yeah, they really do. You know, expectation, expectation, expectation. And then that kills happiness and makes us confuse real with, you know, I don't know, some of the shit. And that's a really great answer. It's a really great answer. We do, we try and work out the perfect formula for things too much in life.

37:37But there is really no perfection when you're dealing with such complex organisms, yes, forming complex relationships. So you moved to, is it St. Louis? Yeah, St. Louis, St. Louis, when you were 25. What was that about? Why did you leave L .A.? Would it be close to my stepdad? And so, uh, yeah, that was my, and also because I was like, couldn't stop. I was like, L .A. is why I can't stop doing drugs and having sex with strangers, even though I love this person so much. Like, let's, and then unfortunately, as my stepdad always said, no matter where you go, there you are. So obviously leaving L .A.

38:14Didn't fix anything. And then he actually passed away like three weeks after we left L .A. And got to St. Louis. So it was like bad on bad. And then I really, really freaked out. Like then I was, that was like the most self -destructive era. Take me into that moment.

38:36Want to find. It's in the book. Yeah, I read, I read, um, I read, I read that that was a very difficult time for you. Um, because I also just think that like we don't need to like, I don't need to like, war story, which is like what we call it in rehab. Like when you talk about like the worst thing. I mean, there's a way that you can do it like with respect and like not speak, you know, it's like I was doing this much things in these drugs. And but like I also, you know, I'm protecting my energy like, I've been on an international tour for 10 days. Like I've given myself so much into like my new show, like which has been, I'm so proud of it.

39:12It's like my third like hour of comedy, but like I'm not all the way in a space where like I want to speak to that part in my life right now. So I'm just going to set a really loving boundary and say, I don't really want to chat about it. It's fun. I respect that. Thanks, honey. What what do him, if I, if I went, when's the next significant moment in your life then? So you that that Steve Steven is his name, Steve Steve Steve passes away. Cause there's a series of issues in your life. You move back to LA. Did you ever think TV and media would be part of your not in this way? No. And how exciting that that that like it was such like a curve ball.

39:51But no, I mean, I just was like accidentally telling a really talented producer an actress and comedian friend of mine who was a client about Game of Thrones. And I was like, if you've seen this show, it's like this and it's that. Like I did a little impromptu recap of it as I was like doing her hair. And when I was done, she was like, that's a series. And so then we did Gay of Thrones. That was like December of 12. And then the next year we started doing Gay of Thrones that like March. And then Gay of Thrones came out and it's meant to be like one episode. But then we got Alfie Allen for our second episode.

40:23And then Funny or Die was like keep doing this. And so then I went really from being like a hairdresser to learning on the job, how to be a performer, how to like improv, how to deliver scripted lines, how to write, how to produce. I mean, I was writing and producing and didn't even know that that's what I was doing because I was doing it on the job. So like, like I just learned like this whole new skill set kind of like over the years, like for like three months a year, like I would do Gay of Thrones. And I just like kind of slow. And then after doing Gay of Thrones for two years, I was like, oh, this is so fun.

40:56I want to do this more. And so then that's when I started my podcast getting curious. And then I did, I got to like learn how to produce that and learn how to research for that and book clients for that. I mean, I think I did like the first 50 episodes of like myself and a sound engineer, but I was like looking at myself. Like it was like, I was like just learning like all these things that I had never really done. And so then I really started to get like stung by that B and I was like, I want to do this more. And I always have loved doing hair, but I was like, I want to be, I want to write more.

41:26I want to be more on camera. I want to like, I want to do this more often. And then in 2018, the queer, I was actually not 18. It was 2017. I read that the reboot was happening and they were casting for it. And I was like, this is my mom. Like this is what I've been waiting for. Like this is the vehicle. Like I always loved queer. I growing up my grandparents and I would watch it together. I was like, I'm ready. And then I went to that audition and that audition was literally like the scene and mean girls when they're all at the fountain and everyone's like tackling each other. It was like that, except for everyone was like being really sweet.

42:03And I remember like this one creator of the show, like his eyes, like I said, this like funny thing. And I was like, okay, you need to be like, you are on gay, have thrones all times. Like you need to be on 15 and you just say, fucking one liners all the time. Like just be the funniest. You have ever even thought about being for the next 48 hours. Capiche, like that's what I was thinking in my head. And I did. Like I was just like, and I just was like so on. Why you? You know, I think so I, I have my sense of me darling. Well, I have my suspicions, but I for you to, you know, it wasn't just an audition, even the stuff you were doing with them.

42:42Was it funny or die? Wasn't it the channel back then? Yeah, gave thrones. Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever pause and think like, what is it about you that made you really successful in gay thrones and then really successful in queer eye? What is it about you in your own assessment? I don't know. Really? I really don't. Because I think it could have been a million people. I think that I have, I think I'm resilient. I think that I have been told no so many times and didn't turn around and go back. I like found a different way. Mm -hmm. I think that's really important. We've got resilience, but you know, just for meeting you now, you have a remarkable talent for wit and humour.

43:31You're very funny and you have a very unforgettable personality. You're like, you're unbelievable energy. And no, I'm, no, but I'm, I'm, you know, no, thank you. But you know, you sort of, you know, I'm, I'm saying, I can't do what you do and I've, I've, I've only met you for like, I don't know an hour or so and I can't be, I'm not as hilarious and witty and I don't know. I don't, I can't almost describe it that some people just have like a really engaging personality and you have that. You have that like energy. That's a huge part of it. Surely you're success. Because you're in, you know, especially on TV and Netflix.

44:08I don't know. I really don't like, I see people like, I have, I know people that make me laugh that I think are way funnier than me. Like way funnier way more witty way more like unforgettable personalities. But like, I think that a lot of the people who I'm thinking of like had some message from the like in their lives where like they were like either, or like their moment hasn't happened yet. It's one of the two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think for a lot of people that like maybe like back to way or like, like, I don't want to like, because like it, because actually in retrospect, like I really, it's not just I think that like, oh, I didn't chase my dream.

44:42I actually really did chase this like with gay of thrones, you know, like I, like I wanted more than gay of thrones, I mean, gay of thrones started in 2013 and I didn't book queer. I until 2017 and then there was no knowing if queer. I was going to work or not until like 2018. So I mean, 2013 was 10 years ago. Like I've been at this for a long time. And so, and there was like so many setbacks, like so many setbacks through that time. Your authentic self, I've sat here with a lot of people in TV and TV and media can often make us. It can incentivize us to become a cat, like not character, but like I sat here with Jake Humphries and a wonderful lady called Fern Cotton who a TV president.

45:21I love her. Oh, you know, yeah. So Fern told me on the podcast that she spent 10 years as a TV presenter and she, I think, realized at some point that she was living outside of herself and at least, she wasn't able to reflect the full array of her who she was. And that resulted in panic attacks and other sort of psychological issues she had. And it's made and now she's so successful doing happy place where she's able to be herself. So this conversation around, like being your authentic self, being the pathway to your greatest success, what is your take on that? This idea of like showing up as yourself regardless of the temptations or disincentivizations or incentivizations to be something else.

46:04How important to you has been being yourself regardless? It's such a, because like, even like, because I totally understand, but even that feels like, um, I don't think like what is like all the way authentic? What's like all the way yourself? Because I always get leery when we're like, because like if the alternative is like, I don't think that there's a such thing as being like all the way yourself or not yourself at all. Interesting. So I think it's like a spectrum. Like everything is kind of really much more of a spectrum than it is like a binary, like choice. So and like when you were saying with Fern, it was like, you know, she's like a TV percent, which you couldn't show like the fullness of herself.

46:44So that's why I wrote over the top. Because I, and I think in love, that's where I say like, or know it's an over the top, I say that like I love an episode of queer, I just as much as the next person. But if I can't tell you my full truth and tell you who I really am, then like I can't help other people like me and I actually can't even be myself. And then the whole crux of over the top is in what I ask in the book is like, would you still want to have a selfie with me? Like would you still love me if you knew my whole story? And so that's, you know, and then I say and love that story that the resounding answer that I got from so many people was yes.

47:15You know, I do still love you. And like in most cases, it was like even more so. But were there parts? I think we always have parts of ourselves that are informed by external factors. Like if I didn't get feedback from people when I go like, when I say something funny, that that, if I didn't get positive feedback from that, would I still be making all those jokes? Like so does that mean I'm not really, you know what I'm saying? Like every way that we show up in the world is because of like our socialization, our relationships, like our communities. Like I don't think that that makes you like, it's really like your relationship with your self.

47:53And I don't think that like, I don't think there's like authentic and like inauthentic. There's like, there's like sometimes I'm more like this because of this thing. And sometimes I'm more like that because of that thing. You know what I mean? It makes perfect sense. That's so interesting. But it is the truth. And I think is actually more authentic is like being able to like speak to what you're actually feeling like in the moment. Like I feel like earlier when we were saying like, like I literally caught myself. I was like, oh, like, you know, Brené Brown says, can you talk about your trauma without becoming your trauma?

48:25And I was like literally laying that up because I was feeling vulnerable with you. I was and I didn't like it. So I was like, oh, yeah, totally can. Like I can totally speak. And it like doesn't really hurt me. So I don't really want to talk about it that much because it's like, but then it's like actually that was really a protector park that was coming up because I didn't want to talk about it. And I felt like I was going to become my trauma like because I am a little tired. And I am a little run down like after the last two weeks. Like I've worked my fucking ass off for these last two weeks.

48:48And another thing that's interesting that I don't really want to talk about. But when I was originally supposed to, when we were going to do this the last time, I had like a really close family member die. Super young, super out of the blue, like which we don't, but she got strep throat and died in four days. My sister -in -law. And so that's why I wasn't in the United Kingdom, which I also didn't ever talk about publicly because it's like not anything I wanted to talk about. But like it's, I think really what being authentic is is having the courage and like the vulnerability to say like, this is what I'm going through.

49:19Like this is like actually the thought that I actually had in my head. Like when I was about to try to lie to you, like this is really what it was. And like for me, it's like sometimes it's like if you come up to me for a selfie and like, especially on that day, like with Leslie, my sister -in -law, like I wasn't taking selfies. It wasn't in a good mood. When my cat fell out of a window, and you asked me for a selfie, I wasn't going to take a selfie. And sometimes I'll be like, yeah, like let's do it. But then sometimes, but you know, normally thing life is okay. And I'm not going through like some horrific trauma.

49:49That's not the energy I give you when you want a selfie. I'm like, yeah girl, like it's like, let's do it. But sometimes I'm not always like that. And so I think that's really what's authentic is saying that like just because you always see me like, or the two episodes of Queer Eye that you saw being five years ago, and you remember me saying some funny, quippy things, what's really authentic is me being able to be like, that's not always who I am. And there's actually like a fuller picture there. So like that is like what authentic is. But there has been moments like where I was probably like, totally someone asking for a selfie.

50:15And it's like, sure, or let's do it on the inside. I was like, I want to die. Like I don't feel good. I feel awful. And then the expectation of someone that I need to perform that for them constantly, no matter what's going on, that shit wears me out, which is why I can't do it all the time. So like that's, yeah, I like, I just think authenticity is like this like buzz word that we use when like really what it is is like, are you willing to like, be open about like what you need, like what your experience is, like what someone's like expecting at you. Regardless of how the external world might respond positively or negatively to that.

50:58Yeah. Gosh, then if that is the definition of authenticity, it's even harder than I thought. Because authenticity is it's often portrayed as just like being being your personality, what's an all being, you know, if my personality is slightly weird in certain ways, being that regardless of company, but in the definition you've described there, it's like boundaries and like staying true to myself regardless of the consequences of that externally, which is as you say, I have tied days, I have days when I'm in a bad mood, when I'm when I need some space, where I don't want anyone to talk to me, and on those days expressing that is worth interest to.

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52:11We no longer have to juggle multiple systems and having everything together has reduced the number of manual tasks and errors. Over 41 ,000 businesses have chosen to future -proof their business with NetSuite. So if you'd like to learn how it can help your business, head to netsuite .com slash Bartlett and free download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning. That's netsuite .com slash Bartlett. What are you feeling? Now? Yeah, you know, your schedule has been crazy. You've been doing a lot of work lately. Yeah. How are you feeling? Um, look, if you're...

52:45I feel really grateful and at the same time, I feel really frustrated. And that's the best way I can explain it right now. I'm going through a lot of grief. I just lost my sister a lot two months ago. Watching my nephews grow up, you know, dealing with unimaginable grief, watching my brother deal with unimaginable loss. Um, so talking about, you know, how I'm feeling and it's just, this has been a really hard time. And I think balancing your private life with being a public figure who is constantly expected to be a rea -fucking sunshine, no matter what is going on, it can be challenging.

53:35Um, so... I love my hairline. I love what I get to do with JVN here. I love that I get to be a comedian. I love that when I want to do a show, I can, like, there's people that want to come see my comedy. Like, comedy's been so healing for me. And it's like one place in my career where I get to be a reverent. And I get to, like, I'm the most myself on stage. I think that's like the most accurate and unfiltered version of who I am is on stage. I think, like, any artist, when you, like, like, I'd just been burning the candle at both ends for the last, like, 10 days. So, like, in this very moment in my life, like, actually, this particular moment, I feel frustrated and grieving.

54:20Um, when I zoom out a little bit and give voice to that frustration, and now I can, like, sit with this or, like, loggernaut and actually, like, tell, like, give a larger answer, um, I feel, like, I feel grateful and frustrated. Like, Dill and Mulvaney is a really good friend of mine. I love her so much. I've, like, watched what's happened to her in the press for the last few months. I'm like, so frustrated. I just see so much, like, just absolute garbage, like, just transphobic garbage all over the place. I see really not very many folks really interrogating their beliefs around their transphobia, um, interrogating, like, where are they getting their information, um, and then even understanding, like, our transphobia that we experience in our culture is, like, really, truly rooted in, like, white supremacy and colonialism, and this conversation goes back, like, 400 years.

55:20And so that's, like, a really big systemic thing. But then living in a state where, like, this woman literally just lost her life because this guy thought that she looked queer, like, there are kids that, like, like, their families are like moving, like, they can't, like, they can't, like, like, their kids who, like, if they have already started their transition, and they're, like, if they're, you know, 16 -year -old, and they're a sophomore in high school, and they've been living in their gender identity since they were like a five -year -old kid. They've been on puberty blockers, uh, when they were, you know, little.

55:53They had a concert of doctors, and they're family who cares about them and loves them deeply, help them transition, um, because if they didn't transition in some cases, not all cases, but some cases, like, these kids will have such intense gender dysphoria that they can come at suicide. They can do things that can truly never be reversed. And so we have these people making these hyperbolic claims about protecting children, um, and about, you know, protecting children from making irreversible decisions, bathrooms, fairness in sports, all these things, when, like, trans people make up, like, at most, like, 2 % of the population.

56:26Like, gun violence is out of control, education's out of control. Like, people don't have access to the food, to the health care. I mean, my book's been banned. Like, my book, like, peanut goes through the gold. Like, they were talking about banning, I mean, like, this is really serious. And so, like, it's just frustrating. I'm grateful, but I think to, like, have had a lot of my dreams come true, like I said earlier, but then in this, like, environment of, like, where you feel like, oh my god, like, if one person decides that, like, something that I said or did, they can, like, I mean, you literally, because so much of the transphobia that we read about, like, when you read, like, if you read an article about what happened to Dylan, um, like, the way that people just speak about trans people and non -binary people, like, the quotations, the, the inferred, like, threats or, like, not believing that we are who we say that we are.

57:17And, but then, like, how that actually has, like, been taken farther now to, like, revoking health care, like, you know, limiting access to health care, calling health care child abuse. Um, it's just really frustrating, because it's such like a gigantic conversation that there's a lot of nuance and a lot of people have been exposed to misinformation and disinformation, don't really understand. And so then, and then I'm in this position of, like, like, how do I balance, like, what I'm seeing happening to friends and people who I love, and then, like, running a business and trying to grow my business.

57:49And then with this backdrop of all this fucked up shit, it's hard. So I'm like, you know, I'm grateful, like, and I, and I'm also like a hairdresser who loves doing hair. Like, I love good products. Like, I'm someone who in my 20s, like, I would overdraft my checking account to get the shampoo and conditioner that I wanted. Like, because I know when your hair feels good, like, when you feel good about how you look, like, you just feel so much better. And I would literally choose like products over food all the time in my 20s. And so I wanted to make products that are clean and, but ultimately, like, more than clean.

58:21Like, I really wanted to make products that work really, really well that don't cost, like, $100 for a shampoo and conditioner. Like, I just wanted to make really highly functional products that work on people's hair. They hairdressers love and that people love that they can actually afford. And I'm so passionate about it. But like, there's a lot of times that I can't even think about the cool things that I've done because I'm like, literally, like, if you read comments right now, if you, who cares about a comment? I don't really care about comments. I care about like, what's happened in my state, like in Texas.

58:49Like, I mean, there's like, like, this, like, drag band that was just past, like, I'm performing in Texas in Austin in December. Like, I have to make sure like, there used to be able to be like, now in this show, fun and slutty, I wouldn't want kids there anyway. It is like an adult show. But like, it is like, there is like, I'm like, there was, there's a lot they were talking about that would like just force people to wear clothes of their, like, biological sex in public. That all didn't pass. So there's like, conversation around it. The way that we're like, trending and heading. And anytime where you like, talk about like, limiting a whole group's ability to like, you know, access, like, information, healthcare, education, or just like, their exposure to public under the guise of like, protecting kids.

59:35Like, historically, we've really seen that a lot of times like against so many marginalized groups. So I think anytime when that starts happening, like, we all really need to be super leery, especially because like, sex abuse is such a huge issue. And it is happening in families and in churches and it's happening in schools. I'll tell you where it's not happening. Is it drag queen brunch? Okay, it's not happening there. Not happening in healthcare clinics. Well, maybe it could be in some places like, I don't, you know, but really it's like, it is not happening in gender -affirming care and it is happening in drag queen brunches.

1:00:11It's like dentist or, you know, some doctor might put gender some, those things happen with these crazy fucking cis -hat doctors who you find out where like, you know, I'm pregnant in their fucking patients or like, that is what it's like, maybe that. But like, in gender -affirming care and in drag queen brunch, it's not child abuse. Well, where's this, because I've noticed this, what feels like quite a tectonic shift in transphobic narratives over the last couple of months in particular, it seems to have been this this grow out and I can't figure out where it's come from. I was saying to you this too early on, but if I don't know where it's come from, I don't really know.

1:00:46Part of it is conservative thing, tanks. So when Biden won in 2020, and we saw this in Virginia because the Virginia House delegates, by one vote, state Republican. And then because they have off cycle elections in Virginia as to 2019, it flips back to, it flips to Democrats. And then 2021, it reverses again and goes back to Republicans. And the issue that they really use there was bathrooms and trans rights because the Democratic controlled legislator in that 19 session had done some things on trans rights. And they through these conservative thing tanks because a lot of times in Virginia because it has off years, like they use that as like a bellweather to like test things like just on both sides, like Democrats and Republicans, but they were throwing everything at the wall.

1:01:35Abortion hell, no, they don't want that. That's not going well for them right now because most people support the right to abortion. So for Republicans, like that's not a winning thing right now. But the thing that in gay marriage, that's not really a huge thing anymore because most people support gay marriage. But when they threw trans rights, when they threw biological males competing against women in sports, robbing, you know, your sweet pretty little white girl of her, you know, hard earned sporting opportunities, that stuck, that stuck hardcore, that got people fucking circling the wagons, honey.

1:02:09So that is when we really started to see. And when you were like, oh, just in these last three months, it has not just been in these last three months. That's because of the way the elections work and because we just had a midterm election in November of last year. And then they don't take office until January and then it takes months and months for things to get through committee and stuff. All of this shit has been in the works. We've all been talking about this. If you look at my getting curious, it was canceled on Netflix last fucking year. There's a whole episode about this. And it's it talks about the anti drag bills up until 2022.

1:02:40As compared to that time, we have four times more at that time. And the graph was like this. So it isn't new. And it just takes a minute. But I think another thing that we're seeing is that like, you know, how you're saying like, oh, the line or like the thing of like the tiger is coming for you run away from the tiger. So that's like negativity bias versus like positive positive bias. That's why a story of like someone getting murdered or someone getting abused is going to go way farther than like, you know, the good news network story, you know, it's your negativity bias. So that's the other thing is that like because we have so much fear mongering around trans issues right now, that's also part of like why like it feels like it's going so much farther because people really are actually thinking that people really think that there's like little kids going and getting hysterectomy is like going to school as a boy and coming home as a girl having like full, you know, I mean, like people actually have been convinced that like there's little teeny children who are making, you know, permanent medical decisions with no parental supervision with no medical supervision.

1:03:40People really think that's true. Another huge issue that we're up against right now is that there's so much disinformation around like the fact that actually like biological sex is in and of itself a spectrum like that's not even a binary. Like do you know what intersex is? Do I? Yeah. No, I don't. So that's the eye and LGBTQIA. There is like six intersex, there's six my friend Alicia Rothwagel is an amazing intersex activist. Her book is coming out. It's called inverse cowgirl. She also just helped produce a movie that just came out that is called everybody. But statistics show that up to two percent I interviewed her on getting curious if you ever want to listen to it.

1:04:18But up to two percent of our population is enter and you should actually have her on this podcast because she's fucking major. But two percent of our population is intersex. We don't test everyone that's born for what our chromosomes are. So there's XX and then there's XY. But then there's also a variation that's XXY. There's also some there's like these multiple variations or six main ones that qualify someone as intersex. And so what happens is and is that like if a kid is born intersex doctors they don't even mark that down like they will take the kid they talk to the parent and they say like whatever the genitalia most appears as they're literally one thing that I have learned and have been told is like doctors will literally say it's easier to dig a hole than build a pole.

1:05:02So most people that are born intersex they will make into someone that looks biologically female. But these people will have to take hormones for their entire life. They have to have gender they have to have genital surgery like on their genitals when they are babies. I'm talking like operate on their genitals when they're babies and then when they're kids and then they have to wear expanders when they're kids like their parents have to teach them how to wear expanders so they will have a vagina that looks like other people's vaginas. So kids currently up to two percent of people. Now when you say that to transphobes they'll say like oh well actually that study was wrong and it's only .02 people it's not 2 % it's it's .2.

1:05:36In either way 2 % of the population of 7 billion that's hundreds of millions of people who have intersex characteristics of .2 that's still millions and millions of people with intersex characteristics and there's a lot of people who look like their men who are actually walking around here with XXY chromosomes a lot of men who can't have kids it's actually because they have they are intersex. So intersex people exist all over the place like intersex is a real thing the idea of biological sex being a binary isn't even true and if you talk to biologists they will tell you exactly what I'm telling you and it's interesting in a lot of these anti trans bills for kids intersex kids are specifically carved out.

1:06:23So in these bills it says you can't commit no general mutilation no hormones your kid must be the biological sex that they were born unless they are intersex and then we must do genital surgery we must prescribe hormones we must enforce the binary so that's and I'm and if you think I'm in hyperbolic right now not you or just anyone watching like do this research look up what intersex is. Can I ask you a really important question that I've been I've been mulling over in my head and I'm going to be and I think there'll be a lot of people that are mulling this question ahead which is how can I be a and I'm not even sure if this is the right word but how can I be a better ally.

1:07:03I think everyone needs to realize I think the ally talk is a little bit garbage because it ally implies that like this doesn't affect me but because I care about you I'm going to fight against this but actually these trends this transphobia affects everyone like it affects everyone it affects cisgender women because like even now like there's little girls who like they're wanting to like there's like little girl soccer team in Utah where this one team beat the other team and the the parents of the kids who got beaten accused the other girls of being transgender and they were like that's why they got beaten so like as we start to like incentivize you know checking kids genitals and checking like to make sure that you're who you say you are and like and really like villainize this idea of transness it starts like it's going to affect everyone like so if it doesn't affect you now it's like we already lost our right to reproductive health care because the right to reproductive health care in the United States goes hand in hand with its bodily autonomy so whether you're talking about determining what your body does reproductively or determining what your body does as far as your gender expression it's like they go hand in hand and it's all about control so that control affects everyone so I think we don't affect me I'm going to be your ally at least that's why I feel about it like that's like how when I think of it but really it's like we need people to understand that like if you're white racism it doesn't affect you in the same way that it does for a person of color but you shouldn't be like I'm going to do you a solid and be an ally you should do what you should be you should be in that fight because in injustice anywhere as an injustice everywhere and it will affect you and actually the racism and the transphobia and the homophobia and the misogyny and the the way that we are like so like don't talk about disabled people and what they need or people with disabilities and the disabled community is like all this does is like keeps money in the most powerful people the most powerful people's hands like we all need to really come together and like to me it's like the corporate greed like that's really what is like causing so much of this and then like corporate greed because so much of that is like made by Republicans they're like look over here it's trans people look over here it's gay people look over here it's it's food stamps like they're being lazy like that's where you don't the those people are being lazy these people don't even work these people are fucking crazy with their trans their their kids are running around like you know what I mean so it's just a lot of like smoke and mirrors now as far as haircare or obsessed with JVN hair and I'm like gorgeous can I just say can I just say on this your team said to me before you arrived they said we've we've worked with a few people but nobody's ever been so deeply obsessed in the product and been authentically obsessed in the product as you have so I've went through and I've had a little sample of all of them they are the most exquisitely smelling products I've ever thank you are wonderful of ingesting nasally well done I heard this is breaking records thanks um pre wash cup oil is amazing I well I think for me I really love formulas I love formulas it work on all hair types um so for us I'm really big on like the amount of product like if your hair is finer and density you're gonna use a little bit less if your hair is quite thick and density like a lot of hair per square and you're gonna use a little bit more um that's an amazing heat protectant right there that has nice cinamide and charge lemon protein in it so it's it has no holds that's amazing for people who just like want to put a little bit of nourishment in their hair um but it also has great heat protection even if you don't style your hair with like blow dryer or a curling iron you're still experiencing heat from your body heat in the sun so it's just a great hair hydrator um but no hold if you wanted for you if you wanted to like bring out your waves a little bit um we don't have any air dry cream in there but uh it's over there in the air dry cream you could like put on your waves when your hair is wet and then like run your little like I saw it's the foam uh no it's a cream air dry cream but you can like really like take that out with like a little like your little wave brush and really just like get like bring out your waves um you could do like a sponge roller with that I love our little air dry cream it's great for textured hair it's it's really great for like one a through fourcy that's on damage that's great for anyone who's got like highlights heat damage swimming a lot you've sold me and I can't wait for my love you love it we'll send them to you and your partner oh we've got a huge bag here thank you so much you're so welcome we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for you yes who's your next one who's your next one what about your life do you think is abnormal and why oh okay um whatever hmm maybe like my five cats three dogs and seven chickens and that's like maybe more animals than like most people have but I get so much joy for my family and I don't know if I really want human babies I love my fur babies so maybe that's that's I think why it's my life is so fun do I get to ask the question the next person yes but do I get to know who the next person is I said to ask a random question is someone I don't even know yes and also they'll be turned into cards that people will play with their families and stuff oh fuck so I can't be what's the business is start implementing new systems and processes in hopes of creating efficiencies for the year ahead and over the course of my career I've learnt just how crucial having the right systems in places one which has helped me across many of my investments is net suite 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