The Ozempic Expert: Ozempic Transforms Your Gut Microbiome! People Are Being Overdosed On Ozempic! Microdosing Saved My Life! - Dr Tyna Moore

24:10And I needed me. I needed my brain on the case, like someone who had both, right. And I just couldn't get on top of it. And then finally, I don't know how or why I went kind of into the story. Oh, I know what it was. I broke out with psoriasis. I broke out with psoriasis all over my scalp. And I was like, oh, this is what this is. This is psoriatric arthritis, which turns out to be one of the most painful musculoskeletal autoimmune conditions. You can have it's worse than rheumatoid arthritis on the pain scale from what the study shows. So I was like, okay, now that I know what I'm dealing with, what can I do.

24:42So I started pulling out all the stops and all the things I knew to do. Lotus now truck zone exosomes. You name it. I was doing everything. It really wasn't bringing it down or it would work for a minute. And it would it would it would wear off. And so I was getting desperate. And my pot. I have a podcast and my podcast producer said, you got to do an episode on a Zempick. And I was like, I don't I don't like talking about weight loss. I really don't like talking about weight loss. It people get so emotionally triggered. And it's a big topic and it's nuanced. And it's not as simple as people want to make it be.

25:15And in my functional medicine world, people want to make it so simplistic. Just exercise more and eat less and take these supplements. And it'll go carnivore and it'll all go away. It's not that simple. There's genetic components. There's brain components. There's epigenetic components. And it was like the Pandora's box. I didn't want to open. And so finally, I was like, okay, fine. I'm going to start researching these. And I was sitting. I was laying on the couch on my back. And it's 2023 at this point, but I'm still having to take frequent breaks right on my back. So I go exercise and I'd have to lay down for three hours.

25:48So I'm googling and I look up GLP one and neuro inflammation because I always start there. I always start with pain, neuro inflammation and immune activation. I always want to know what any substance does in those because that's my world, right, because that's what I did in clinical practice. And I googled that my husband's in the kitchen and I was like, holy shit. And I turned the phone around and I was like, look at this. And he's like, I don't know what that means, babe. And I was like, this is not what they're telling us. Like this is not what because that was at the height of mainstream media and all the clickbait headlines and, you know, mom is overdosing on ozempic and people's stomachs are paralyzed forever.

26:28And I was like, so then I started, of course, looking at all that. Like, is that for real? Like are they really getting gastroprices forever? No. So I start going into all the data. And I just, that was it. It was like the rabbit hole. And that was May of 2023. And I've been knee deep and it ever since just consumed by any and all. And then of course, everybody started, I started doing podcasts about it on my show and everyone sending me all the information and hundreds of people are reaching out to me telling me these really pro the pound stories and changes in their health that have nothing to do with weight loss or diabetes.

27:02And so that was it. I was like, I got, I got bit by some kind of, well, you know, I don't like propaganda. I don't like when I hear everybody saying the same thing. It makes me suspicious. You know, when everyone's running in one direction, screaming, this is evil. This is, this is, this is, you know, the worst thing ever. I was like, I don't know this has been around for 20 some years, not some athlete, but this version of medication, this family of medication. And so I don't know, I was like, I'm not buying this. I'm going to find out what the truth is. And so I called every doctor I knew that might use it.

27:39I called a re pharmacist. I knew that might use it. And nobody was seeing any of these horrific side effects. Like the stories you were seeing on the media currently. What was that summer? That was really it came to like full height summer of 2023. I think that was when everybody was losing their minds about it. The minute they started talking about weight loss. People started losing their minds about it, which I find very interesting. And what I was finding in the literature was not at all adding up to what I was hearing. And then there were all of these other benefits. That were just mind blowing, you know, benefits on healing and reversing type one diabetes.

28:18Healing and reversing neuro cognitive conditions like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. Efficacy with alcohol cessation people who were, you know, alcohol abuse syndrome using it for that people who also had this type of it HLB 27. It's a genetic propensity towards these and it's a genetic propensity towards those kinds of things. And as I started speaking out about it, I was getting messages back from people telling me their stories hundreds and hundreds of people telling me their stories. And then seeing what was happening with my patients. So I started applying it to everyone I was treating for different reasons.

29:02It had different doses, very tiny doses though, very little bits. And just seem really profound changes in people. And I, it's not what we're hearing. And I don't think that the way also that it's being done in the standard model is I think it's a good idea to be able to do this. I deal for everyone. I think a lot of people are being dose too high too fast. And I think a lot of people are being overdose because at the end of the day, it's a hormone. It's a peptide signaling hormone. And so people are being cranked up on doses very quickly. There's a 16 week escalation and they go from this amount to this amount very quickly.

29:36And in the journey, many people are reporting horrific gastrointestinal side effects, which are real. But it's not the peptide's fault. It's the it's a peptide at the end of the day as well, which is I can explain what that is. Yeah, if you had to explain what a Zempek is or we'll go over your this compound is just to a 10 year old. Yeah, okay. How would you explain it? So you eat amino acid, you eat protein and it breaks down into amino acids. Yeah. And amino acids link up with peptide bonds into chains called peptides. And then peptides will live. And then peptide bond. It's just a simplistic bond that binds to amino acids to care.

30:13Okay. So it can be broken pretty readily with different enzymes. And that's in my body. The peptide bond is in my body. Yeah. So your body has all these enzymes present and the amino acids link up very simplistically into different chains. Yeah. And then those chains of amino acids are called peptides. And peptides link up to form proteins and your body is made of proteins, your whole body. All of your tissue is made out of proteins. And your cellular receptors are made out of proteins, everything is made out of proteins. So if you go backwards, those smaller versions are the amino acids, I'm sorry, are peptides and the smaller versions of that yet are the amino acids.

30:50So we eat protein, we break it down into amino acids and we reconstruct it into more protein. And so peptides are these chains of amino acids that we've got all different types of therapeutic peptides and they insert themselves where they need to go to do what they need to do. So that's it at the end of the day. And what's the Zempec in that? Is it Zempec as a peptide? It's a peptide. And it's made in our L cells of our gut, which line from the most proximal to the just normal small intestine. And it secrete these cells to create GLP1 in the presence of glucose, which is sugar when we eat sugary foods or food, well, all carbohydrates break down into glucose.

31:32So whenever we eat glucose and they respond actually when a bolus of food, so the mechanism of a blob of food going through our guts actually gets these cells to trigger. However, I have tested thousands of people's guts in my clinical practice in my clinical lifetime and people's guts are a mess. Most people have compromised digestion. So I don't think their L cells are working optimally in many cases. And we also have literature, good solid science to show that those who are suffering with obesity type 2 diabetes and fatty liver and that whole metabolic syndrome. You know, groupage those folks are GLP1 deficient.

32:12So when I take a Zempec, it's causing my gut basically my body to release GLP1. No, it is the GLP1. Oh, it is the GLP1. Yep. So we're not causing the gut to do anything. We are mimicking the actual peptide. Okay. So it's got the same sort of atomic structure. Yes. So my body thinks it's GLP1. I guess it is. Yes. As far as things are concerned. And then the GLP1 is doing what to me. Well, so it's semacletide for instance is bioidentical to the GLP1 that our body secretes. Oh, yeah. It's the same except it's been tweaked with a little bit. They've added some lipids to it to make the half life longer.

32:51So last longer. So normally GLP1 would be secreted from our cells. It's also secreted from our brain, which we got to get into because that's where I got really excited. It's secreted from our body and it's broken down very quickly. And so these newer versions of these in cretin hormones or in cretin peptides are broken down at a slower pace. Okay. And then what does GLP1 do? It does all kinds of cool things. So it most notably in what it's known for is to decrease appetite. And that happens centrally in the brain. Yeah. It slows gastric motility. So it slows things down so you feel fuller for longer.

33:32That's at higher doses. That doesn't always need to happen. And that is what it is known for. And it also has induction of it plays with the cells of your pancreas and it gets them to secrete insulin at the right time. And so most folks are walking around in some degree of insulin resistance as they age. And that is the beginning glimmers of type 2 diabetes. And so GLP1's help that process. It helps sensitize the cells to the insulin and it helps secrete the insulin when needed. And when you were struggling in 2023. Yeah. You started taking a Zempec smagletite, one of these brands. Yeah. What impact did I have on you?

34:19So I got a compounded version because I thought that this starting dose. Let's back up the brand name, the prescription that most people are familiar with are these little pre -filled pens. Yeah. And the pens only come in certain doses. You can't control the doses. You start at the lowest dose that they offer and then you have to escalate from there. Or if your doctor's cool, they won't make you escalate too much. But either way, you don't get to go lower than the dose that it starts. And it starts at .25 milligrams. I thought that that was way too high, especially for someone like myself. I'm very metabolically optimized.

34:51I have good muscle mass. I have very good bone density. I have my labs look beautiful. I'm hormonally optimized. I'm on bioidentical hormone replacement. I'm very active. I exercise often. My sleep is good. And I thought my thinking was. I wonder if some of us are actually a little GLP1 deficient from whether a life of. Not because we have obesity diabetes and fatty liver. There's different reasons why those folks would be deficient. Insulin at high levels itself will actually induce some GLP1 deficiency. It'll decrease in GLP1 signaling. My thinking was, I wonder if folks are just genetically.

35:30Or maybe we got ourselves there through chronic illness. Whatever it may be, I wonder if there's a little bit of a deficiency. What if I supplement this peptide like I would a hormone, which the way I do that is. I give people the lowest dose necessary to achieve a physiologic impact that's favorable. And then I cap it. So if you need a little bit of thyroid, the standard model would have you take. Well, you know, the algorithm says you have hypothyroidism. So we're going to give you this much and we're going to be this exact drug. In my world, we compound what we need. Maybe you need a little more T3 than T4.

36:02Maybe you need a tiny dose. Maybe we titrate you up until you start getting a little symptomatic. And we're like, yeah, let's back it down a little. So my thinking was to use it that way. So I asked everyone, I knew, are you using this for anything other than appetite suppression or weight loss or diabetes? And they all said, no, nobody really was none of my colleagues were anyway. And they were all starting at a dose that I still thought was too high. So I started myself at a tiny little dose. And my first impact was brain clarity within days. My brain cleared. I can't even explain it. Brain fog was definitely starting to happen.

36:35I think it was the psoriatic arthritis. And I think it was the, I think it was post COVID, you know, I think our brains all got hit pretty hard by that. And I think it was chronic stress. And I think it was menopause. And I was sort of in this. I'm a high function kind of boss babe. And I couldn't get my work done. And my team was going crazy because I couldn't remember what I told them. And you know, they're calling me and they're like, we already did this. We already had this conversation. What is wrong with you? So I was like, damn it. This isn't going to work for me. I can't be rolling the way I'm rolling and trying to run all my businesses and have brain fog like this.

37:07So that was the first thing I noticed was clarity of thought. Brain fog went away. Anxiety immediately dropped, which I didn't even realize I had. It's just a calmness took over me, which was so amazing. And within two weeks, my pain was down significantly, significantly. And what I noticed was everything was starting to move in pop again. So I was getting mobility back. And by week two, I wanted to move again. So this version of me that just wanted to like go to my workout, go to my work and then lay down on my back. I wasn't doing that anymore. And I immediately like signed back up for Pilates.

37:40And I found myself dancing and who looping around the house again. And I found myself just being much more active and slowly but surely the destruction sort of fell away. Because I had been in a pretty destructive immune process for a couple years there. And it just has, it's taken me, I think it's been almost a year now. And it's just slowly but surely dropped away. I also noticed a little bit of weight loss, which I had gained some weight over the past couple years. I think it was chronic stress was doing a number on my metabolism. And you know, you hit that 50 year old mark and things get tough.

38:13So I had some weight loss fall away. I got right back down to my fight and weight. I'm like literally the size I was in 2019 going into all of this. And so I quickly started putting people on it. And very similar responses. All of them had a little bit of fluff, but nobody was on it for weight loss. Everyone had a little bit of weight. They'll write off, got back down to a good weight. My mom, I was particularly concerned about because I didn't want her to waste away again. I didn't want her vomiting. I didn't want her having any gastrointestinal symptoms. I wanted all of those to resolve. It shifts your gut microbiome to a more favorable microbiome if you do it right.

38:47And so, and we have the data on that. So I was very slow and cautious with her. I don't want her losing any muscle mass. And everybody just had these profound impacts. My daughter's skin cystic acne. I mean, a decade of severe cystic acne, the point where she did not enjoy her teenage years. And she was suicidal from it. I mean, just hiding behind her hair for years. Her skin. I remember seeing her after three weeks on it. And I was like, your skin is porcelain. What happened? All of her PCOS symptoms reversed. My husband didn't want to drink anymore. The guy is a known alcoholic. He was like, not interested in alcohol.

39:24His blood pressure regulated out. I mean, just all of these little things started happening. And I started seeing similar effects in my patients. And then I, at the same time, I was posting about it and talking about it on my podcast. And people were messaging me, telling me these profound stories. They were like, I went on it for weight loss. Or I went on it for metabolic dysfunction or type 2 diabetes. But here's all the other things that started happening. And then people started telling me they were getting pregnant on it. And, you know, when they had been infertile and gone through rounds of IVF that were not working.

39:55And just all of these amazing stories. And so, of course, I have to research that and do more information on that. And it's just been, I've just been unwinding. I feel like I'm unwinding a story that isn't being told. So, what is that story? To summarize, what is that story that's not being told that you've come to believe? These peptides are healing. They are anti -inflammatory and they are regenerative. And they have a profound impact on our immune system in a positive way. And they don't just cover up and mask the insulin resistance in the metabolic dysfunction that leads to type 2 diabetes.

40:32They actually heal it. How did you know that? Well, interestingly, as this year has gone on, more and more studies have come out. And we're starting to see it. So, many of the hypotheses I had about it are starting to show themselves in good clinical data and good studies. And I've seen it with my patients and I've seen it with myself. So, I am now able to go off of it. At first, I could only go off of it for a short amount of time. And my psoriasis would come back. That was the first symptoms. I would start getting skin issues and I usually get it around my scalpeline little itchies. That would come back within seven to ten days.

41:09I am now able to go a month without it and absolutely no symptoms. And the second I start to get brain fog or a little bit of pain. I go back on, I cycle it like I would any other hormone. I don't know if you've had any guests on talking about hormones, but they're done best when you cycle them because receptors get saturated. And when you saturate a receptor with a hormone or after a while, the cell will stop listening. And so you don't want to just keep flooding a cell or a body with a hormone. You want to take it away and let those receptors pop back up. And so I think done correctly and done in an elegant way that's just reasonable clinically reasonable.

41:45I think that we can actually start to heal some of these chronic lifestyle diseases that are so rampant. And it makes me wonder if we would need less and less and less of the common pharmaceuticals that are being handed out like candy. The lifelong pharmaceuticals people go on statin drugs or they go on blood pressure medications and no one says boo. They're on it for life. Oh, here's your metform and for your type two diabetes. You're on it for life. I think done correctly and also the neuro regenerative process that these induce in the brain. They actually regenerate neurons. Neuroplasticity is this concept where when the brain, when you do something enough, your brain will hardwire into that.

42:26And so any habit, good or bad that you consistently do or any thought process you consistently have if you're chronically depressed or you're chronically negative or you're, you know, I mean, you know this, you're, you're self optimizing yourself all the time and growing and trying to grow and be better. You're plasticizing your brain and hardwiring that circuitry. So it's getting easier for you and you continue to seek knowledge. These peptides offer people a window of opportunity of not only giving them the onus of control back because there are some mechanisms in the brain and the dopinergic pathways that are giving people the.

42:58They're back in the driver's seat. They're back in control of what they're doing. But it's also inducing this neuro plasticity. So if they are to implement really positive lifestyle habits during the period of time that they're on it, they will hardwire that into their brain. So it's like opening a window of opportunity for somebody to completely change their life. You mentioned some studies that have really supported your thesis that as impact is more than just a weight loss drug and that has these other sort of regenerative properties and these healing properties. What are some of the studies you've got something in front of you there that you brought with you.

43:32What are some of these studies that highlight this in your view? Well, so there's one study in particular that I don't have a title of written down where they looked at all of the data on all of the GOP one agonist that are out there the different versions that I mentioned and they went back through all of the studies and they looked at it system by system by system and I gave your team a link to that. And what they found is I mean, going from tip to toe neuro regeneration and anti inflammation in the brain, they showed improvements in cardiovascular tissue. We just had a study come out at the end of 2023 called the select trial was a big one.

44:06Yes, it was sponsored by Nova Nordisk, who's the manufacturer of some act of tide of I should say of a Zemperic. And so people say, oh, don't believe those studies. It was a well done study. It looked at individuals in their 40s who were overweight, but did not have type two diabetes and it showed a 20 % reduction in severe cardiovascular events. So stroke and heart attack and others. And so then people argued once that came out and said, oh, well, that fuf, you know, Nova Nordisk did it. And that would happen if people lost weight anyway, right? You'd have improvements in cardiovascular disease.

44:40Well, they just looked at the data again and realized that those benefits were independent weight loss, whether people lost weight or not, they still had significant improvement in cardiovascular outcomes, which there's just nothing we don't have anything out there that does that. I found data showing regeneration of pancreatic tissue, beta cells and type one diabetics, if given early enough. So if a person is the type one diabetes is an autoimmune condition where the pancreas becomes destroyed by the immune system, it's different than type two. So we don't have anything to help those people. It used to be called juvenile diabetes and then type two was adult on set, but now kids, many, many children are dealing with type two.

45:21So it's a big mishmash, but there's very two different processes. They shouldn't even have the same name. Anyway, done early reversal of that pancreatic damage to the point where people didn't need to go on insulin and were able to have pancreatic healing. We don't have anything that does that except stem cells. They, at the end of 2023, they had to stop the flow trial because this was a chronic kidney disease trial. They had to stop it because the control group, they needed to be able to ethically give the control group the substance because it was so effective. It was so effective at reversing chronic kidney disease and kidney failure that they needed to be able to offer it to the control group ethically and not let them continue on their journey of kidney damage.

46:07So we've got this mishmash of studies and then they've done little studies here and they're looking at muscle, for instance, it's regenerative to muscle, it's regenerative to bone, it's regenerative to our joints, some of this is a mice, some of its in humans, it's regenerative to the testes and to sperm production and motility. When you say regenerative to say muscle, when people talk about a Zempec, one of the big concerns is that you lose a lot of muscle. It's not true. I mean, it is true. Let me rephrase that. Any dietary intervention or bariatric surgery that induces a severe caloric restriction will lead to about 20 to 35 % muscle mass or I should say lean mass loss.

46:53So this is a little bit of a nuanced conversation. If you basically put somebody into a self starvation mode, they will lose 20 to 35 % of their lean mass. Lean mass is all the soft tissue in your body. So that could be your tendons and your ligaments and your brain and they clump it all into one and they're looking at that and saying, that's all muscle. Muscle is a percentage of that. Muscle isn't all of your lean mass, right? And so that kind of makes the thing the studies look bad there. I think the other thing that they don't consider in that is pathologic muscle due to metabolic dysfunction will be marbled with fat.

47:33What does that mean? Sorry. Well, it's like a faux gras when you induce metabolic dysfunction in an animal, which is what they do and feed lots for cows often and they do it to geese to get their liver fatty. You will end up with this fatty infiltrate in the muscle. So the muscle goes from being this lovely striated linear, beautiful pattern to marbled with fat. And that fatty infiltrate becomes very pathologic to the muscle and it puts the muscle itself into an insulin resistant state. So once the marbling occurs in the muscle, it's sort of a chicken and egg downhill situation for the muscle.

48:10And I do believe very strongly and I've been preaching this for decades that once that process starts and it most often starts in the thighs, you've probably seen the pictures of the cross section of like this is an 80 year old triathlete and his muscle looks really beautiful and linear. And then here's, you know, the average 80 year old and it's really marbled and the bone loss is significant and the fatty layer on the outside is thicker. But what's most important in that photo is the marbling of the muscle. We don't want marbled muscle. That's the beginning of the end. You also end up with fatty liver and you end up with fatty pancreas when you're in this metabolic dysfunction state, this downhill journey that culminates in type two diabetes.

48:49And so one of the first things that happens when metabolic health improves, whether this is through dietary interventions lifestyle strength training, you name it is that fatty infiltrate starts to dissolve. These GLP1 agonists induce that process of the fat dissolving. And so I think that's part of the lean mass loss that they're measuring. They're just measuring it as lean mass loss. But we're also decreasing muscle size. Because we're having the fatty infiltrate start to burn itself up. GLP1s have also been shown to perfuse the muscle with angiogenesis. So we get a vascular supply so that more amino acids are available to the muscle.

49:29So when they looked at aging muscle and a human and they gave them GLP1 agonists, their muscle became healthier and less pathologic because it started to actually get better blood supply and being fused with amino acids they were eating in the form of protein. So it's and then there's pathways that are impacted as well that are inducing muscle protein synthesis. So GLP1s actually induce muscle protein synthesis. They don't cause muscle wasting. It's the caloric restriction that's causing the wasting. And they're measuring it somewhat aberrently. Does that make sense? That's the story I'm trying to weave here.

50:02Yeah, so how can I avoid the caloric restriction if I'm taking the GLP1 agonist like some like some like a tighter as impact? You don't dose it too high. So you don't crush the appetite. So the whole goal is to keep people at a dose where they still have an appetite. You don't have to crush their appetite with it. The way it's being dose traditionally is they're ramping it up really fast and they're just devastating people's appetite with it. And so people go from hungry and starving to I don't want to eat anything and so they don't and then they often will eat less healthy version. I'm sorry they'll eat less volume of a poor of a poor diet.

50:37So they will continue to eat junk food only less of it. They will continue to eat the crappy foods they're used to eating only less of it. And I've heard Johan Hari on your show talk about this and he's a beautiful book that he wrote his magic pill book. He talks about that. He found himself about five or six months in and he was still just eating the same crap. He was just eating less of it. And what needs to happen when anybody's on this at any dose is they need to be protecting their muscle with all their might. They need to be strength training and they need to be prioritizing their protein macros.

51:07Like those are the two non -negotiables. I don't think doctors are always talking about that and I don't think patients are compliant with that. If I start microdosing, why don't I see less of the reward? I see less of the cost. But will I not also get less of the reward that the positive upsides that you've described? Not if you're doing all the other lifestyle things. So like I said, it opens this window of opportunity where people feel much more in control because there's impacts on the brain that allow people to be much more in control of their choices and of their thought processes and of their even of their obsessions.

51:36It's very interesting how it works. And so people are able to make better choices. And I think given that window of opportunity and introducing these lifestyle interventions, they're going to be much more open to it. So we get them exercising. We get them eating better. We get them doing all the things. You know, we get them optimizing their sleep. We get them going on walks and meditating and mitigating their stress. All of those things are going to improve their metabolic health. So it's a two pronged approach. And we don't have to crank the dose. We can do this slow and low. And some people may need more and some people may need less.

52:08But the point is is the way it's being done traditionally where it's like you get your script and you walk out of your office and you don't get any counseling, you don't get any support. This is where people are falling into, I believe, the terrible pits of despair. So this is where we're seeing the problems. And it can be done differently where we're doing a holistic comprehensive approach with the patient. I was reading a 2024 study by Lindsay Wang that found diabetic patients taking a Zempek with 50 % less likely to develop bowel cancer compared to those on insulin. What does this say in highlight about a Zempek's role in staving of cancer?

52:43Well, that's an interesting study because insulin is pro grow. So insulin is also a signaling peptide hormone, very much like a GLP one. And it is pro grow when you give it to someone. So someone being on insulin, I believe will inherently potentially make them more vulnerable to cancer. I don't want to say certainly because I don't want to scare everybody because there's a lot of people out there on insulin. But it is a pro grow hormone. Now it's pro grow and that we get surges of it after we work out, which is awesome. We want that, right? We want that antibiotic response. But in your average person who's not working out and who's not really using their insulin the way they need to, that they're already swimming in it due to insulin resistance and now they're taking insulin because their pancreas is pooped out.

53:24That's a mess. That's a soup of things we don't necessarily want happening growing in the body. And so that study looked at insulin versus GLP ones. It's not entirely fair because it's not a control, it's not a true control group. But there are other data sets coming out that haven't been published yet showing really good, really hopeful and positive impacts on potentially reducing cancer risk. And they're correlative, not causative. So we can't put our finger on it and say these, these, these reduce cancer. But they looked at a, you know, over a million people that were type two diabetics that were on some acclutide and they found a significant reduction in different types of cancer that are obesity related in comparison to the folks who were not taking GLP ones.

54:12And those were the, the cancers you don't want the ovarian, the pancreatic, the colon, the types of cancers that are, you know, you don't come back from readily. And so that's very exciting. It's not getting a lot of play and it's really, really new information. So I'm excited just to watch it. But it makes sense to me because the sit on your immune cells as well. There's GLP one receptors throughout our entire body. That's why we're getting the impacts throughout the entire body. And I think that the impact that it's having on the overall immunologic milieu of an individual is potentially very anti cancer.

54:47I mean, that study that you cited there, I know nothing about is M pecking GLP ones really, but it might even in my sort of, you know, chimp brain, I go, yeah, because if they lose weight, that's likely to get cancer. Right. No, that's totally fair. And I think it's both because the way that these are working mechanistically in the body and many of the studies that I've looked at are showing results independent of weight loss. Even if they don't lose weight, then they can't see risk reduces. Well, they're the healing and regenerative and anti inflammatory impacts are there regardless of weight loss or not.

55:20And then you add in weight loss and you add in insulin sensitivity. You add in this, this healing of the metabolic dysfunction. And you're going to significantly reduce risk for everything as well. I mean, that's a really good point, actually, because if has that has anyone done a study where they give someone a Zempec and even if they don't lose weight, inflammation goes down. Well, that's what the select study, the trial show that that cardiovascular trial I just shared with you, they just re looked at that information and realized that even independent of weight, because that was the big argument everyone had is, well, of course the cardiovascular benefits will stay or will improve because they're losing weight, but they found that even in those who didn't lose weight, they still had really good cardiovascular outcomes.

56:00So yes, that's what that's what we're starting to see. And so I think they need to start looking at these things more readily, but they weren't right they were just looking at like here's more of the obese people and here's types of diabetics and we're going to crank up the doses and we're going to see what we see, but we're starting to get longitudinal data now. So that cancer one, for instance, was looking at patient records going way back. And so they had over a million people in there that they're again it's correlative it's not positive, but it's showing trends it's starting to show positive trends.

56:32And so I think that's what we have to look at and we have to start to flesh that out. What about mental health things like depression and sort of anxiety and these kinds of things? You may be have heard that these are inducing suicidal ideation and people are, you know, getting severely depressed on them and the EU open to whole research into it and people are very concerned about this and yet we've got studies showing really positive impacts on depression and anxiety. And the thing I will say about that is I'm not saying that people on ozemic are not having suicidal ideation, but that is a little more nuanced of a conversation because number one when you lose a significant amount of weight very quickly.

57:17All kinds of things can go wrong. You can end up with pancreatitis you can end up with gallstones you can end up with severe depression your fat stores your hormones. And so you lose your hormones very quickly I've had patients who got tummy tucks and came in a few months later and we're losing their minds because they literally just had all of their hormonal depots sucked out of their stomach. And so there's concern there that this rapid weight loss which again I am not a fan of I'm not a fan of doing it that way. But if you drop somebody's weight significantly you may end up with a very depressed mood state we've also got a bit further to go with that in that many people are using food as their dopamine source and as their crutch or as their coping mechanism and I'm not judging I just understand that to be true you know we all have our vice and if you take that away from someone because they suddenly don't want to eat because we've crushed their appetite with too high a dose.

58:08And then I think that we could end up with a very depressed person in front of us however done correctly and what I'm seeing clinically as people are having really profound benefits in their anxiety and their depression and their moods in their cognition. I'm seeing neurodivergent folks taking it who are becoming much more functional in the in their everyday day to day I'm seeing people who are more of a hermit who don't want to go out in the world suddenly venturing out being more social. So there is an impact on the brain and I think it's the anti inflammatory mechanism I think it's the dopinergic system the dopamine pathways being impacted.

58:46And again if we're not cranking the dose up I think that we can use these effectively to bolster mood to improve cognition to improve brain clarity and all of that leads you know an inflame brain is a depressed brain at the end of the day we have to get that point really clear depression is a brain inflammation issue. You've mentioned sort of sexual health a few times and fertility and passing when we're talking about a Zempec women sexual health male fertility what is the impact in your view of and it is impact intervention on these kinds of things. Well the fertility conversation is really daunting and it's kind of a long one but we are looking we are a few generations into a major fertility crisis and they say what is it by 2100 2 ,100 by 2 ,000 by 2 ,100 97 % of countries in the world will not be reproducing at a rate to repopulate themselves we are looking at a population crisis by 20 by the mid 2040s.

59:50They say sperm rates are going to be at zero. And again that's multifactorial but my firm belief at the root of this is metabolic dysfunction I firmly believe that metabolic dysfunction is probably the biggest driver if I could press a button and fix it I would put my finger on the metabolic dysfunction button. And GLP ones heal metabolic dysfunction and so we're seeing reversal and PCOS which is probably one of the number one drivers of infertility and young women period which is really at the end of the day just metabolic dysfunction it's just presenting in women with high and origins the clinical picture PCOS isn't doesn't always involve cis on the ovaries it's just a I don't even know why it's called that anymore it's a clinical picture where they have metabolic dysfunction they have high testosterone.

1:00:40They have low progesterone their estrogen gets converted readily into testosterone they end up with hair growth they end up infertile it's a disaster many many young women many women in your age cohort have this condition many women in your many couples in your age cohort are not able to get pregnant with that IVF at this point people are not getting pregnant I don't know how do you. Yes people in their 30s are not getting pregnant and when I ask my friends in their 30s all over the world I say what's like how's the pregnancy going with like how's it going with your friends and they're like everybody's on IVF it's I don't know what you're hearing but it that's crazy to me that 30 year olds are having to do IVF healthy looking.

1:01:2230 year olds are having to do IVF so we've got sperm issues and we've got egg issues it's both it's not just the females fall it's not just the males issue we've got sperm health we've got sperm volume we've got sperm motility issues we've got metabolic dysfunction in both groups and what happens when we do have a successful pregnancy is that that offspring is being epigenetically flagged if the mother is obese and dealing with metabolic dysfunction and even if the father is that fetus ends up bathed in insulin in utero and they come out epigenetically marked for much more severe risk of metabolic dysfunction and obesity in their own lives and that cycle just goes into perpetuity that's where we're at were several generations into this as a species and so I'm worried like I'm legitimately I joke that humans are going extinct it's not funny and I think it's really happening and I do believe it will happen in the next few generations if we don't write this ship and at the root of it is this overarching metabolic dysfunction 2018 data out of the US that was published in 2021 showed that only 6 .8 % of US adults are metabolically healthy 6 .8 % so that's 93 94 % of US adults are cardiometabolically busted that's and that was pre lockdowns why that's a great question you talked about PCOS and this sort of an easy thing crisis and then you talked about it being about metabolic dysfunction yeah where is the metabolic dysfunction coming from what is the thing further upstream if we were to attack it at its source yeah the food supply was significantly adulterated in the past few generations so it's starting with my parents the boomers you know they got their convenient food they're everything was about convenience that's when we got you know disposable diapers and fancy microwaves and dishwashers and all that jazz well food became very convenient as well in the 90s I watch this happen in my lifetime in the 90s the foods of plywood significantly adulterated and terrifyingly so and they found the bliss point right the perfect emulsion of sugar fat and salt to hit those neurotransmitters in the brain to make you want to come back for more toxicity is a huge issue I believe toxicity in general not just environmental toxicity but it's the chemicals in our food what we're doing to ourselves so many young women today are bathing themselves in toxic chemicals through their beauty habits I mean the nails and the hair and the skin care and it's it's really really severe so it's this sort of multifactual thing humans are actually eating the same amount or less calories than they were 30 years ago it's not the chloric intake it's not that people are swaths and they're lazy and they need to do better it's that we are swimming in a toxic soup we are eating a very adulterated mineral deficient protein deficient chemical shit storm of a food supply and then you throw in the massive I mean to be totally honest with you the massive uptick in vaccines in infants when they come out I mean that's a whole different ballgame than it was even when my daughter was an infant it's significantly different than when I was an infant so we've just we've got a lot of things coming at these young people and it culminates you know and it adds up and I think people don't realize we have a toxic bucket we all have an individual toxic bucket and that bucket will become full for whatever reason maybe we've got mold exposure maybe we've got too much stress it's it's multifactual but that bucket will fill up and overflow and metabolic dysfunction is a result of that and also a driver of that so it's it's very hard to put my finger on why or the chicken and egg what's what's leading to what I know that there's things we can do that are non -negotiable to help write the ship is best we can that have nothing to do with drugs and have nothing to do with peptides and I've been talking about this for decades we must be strengthening and optimizing our muscle we must be walking every day like human beings do humans were made to walk and lift heavy shit right we are meant to be in community we're not meant to be isolated we're meant to be around others we are meant to share our microbiomes we are meant to have healthy microbiomes not these super sterilized microbiomes the abundance of microbiome disruption from all the antibiotics I mean that alone causes lifelong issues for people and so you stack all this up and people are sitting at home they're alone loneliness is an epidemic they're eating food that comes from Uber Eats or I don't know what you have here but they're ordering in they're eating processed foods for most meals they're not getting out here in London I'm so happy everybody's walking but back in the U .S.

1:06:21everyone just drives everywhere maybe in New York they walk but anywhere else to go you know it's like get up go from the bed to the couch to the car to the desk back to the car to the couch to the bed people are not exercising people are not paying attention to nutritionally dense food they're not getting sunlight they're not in community I think COVID really squelched community just in so many different ways you know a lot of churches are sort of disbanding communities are disbanding they shut the gyms down so there's just all of these factors that culminate into a human being that isn't a healthy human being just on that point of PCOS if I was a young woman I was 31 years old and I came to you with PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome and it was impact my fertility you could see I had the you know high testosterone levels I had slightly harrier arms I was maybe potten some way what would you aim at what would you do I would prioritize protein first of all yeah I would go for 30 grams of protein three meals a day as best that you can I don't even care if it's grass fed fancy protein I just want to be eating animal protein if they will do it I want them immediately cutting out as many of the chemicals that are applying to their skin and their bodies so they're not getting their hair done they're not shooting the Botox they're not putting the nails on they're not I mean it's just a chemical what's coming at young women is crazy when it comes to their beauty routines at this point I would have them walking three times a day for 10 minutes each so three 10 minute walks outside preferably getting up and seeing the sunlight so we set the circadian rhythm so it's really important that you get up and outside first thing in the morning to get natural sunlight in your eyes and it's really important that you see it in the afternoon as the sun is waning that sort of golden hour you know as the sun starts to wane in the sky and the sky gets golden go outside then that really helps you with sleep sleep is critical cut the blue light put the you know amber blue light blockers on at night stop staring at the phone in the TV until 10 o 'clock at night get that shit out of there because that is jacking up people's rhythm which is jacking up their fertility and their hormones strength training is non -negotiable we have to protect our muscle we have to build it I'm a skinny girl and I lift more than you would believe and I don't look at I can't hold it but I try so really optimizing muscle that alone would be a game changer like if they didn't even cut out I wouldn't even pull foods away from them I would just say focus on eating getting the protein in and the other foods will start to fall away and when you start to do all the other things that are good for you you start to make better choices when you feel better you do better I have reversed so much PCOS and women like that next I would add in some progesterone which is available over the counter but obviously do that under the care of someone who knows what they're doing so you don't take too much progesterone but progesterone is a very important player in there it's actually a neuro hormone it's it's very safe and effective and I would get them eating as much of a whole food diet as I could could you can you reverse PCOS yeah yeah I mean there so you know genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger so they came out with some bad epigenetic flags but that doesn't mean that that's their fate none of us it is not my fate to die a miserable death from sorry I got arthritis I will do everything I can to make sure I keep that at bay and that's something that medical doctors don't tell you you go in they say you have this there's nothing we can do and I'm like could I take a multivitamin could my is changing my diet going to do anything and back when I was growing up there was like there's nothing you can do good luck at least now doctors are starting to get a little more savvy and realizing it's more nuanced and I'm starting to see the professions come together more and realize like diet actually matters and I'm starting to see it in the headlines of the medical journals like diet actually matters lifestyle matters light matters you know but all of these things what what I tell patients is I'm not going to go to the gym and I'm not going to go to the gym and I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that I care you you are genetically and epigenetically primed but we're going to try to keep that as quiet as possible we're going to try to keep you optimized so that this over here doesn't rear it's ugly head but you know throw in a bad viral infection or throw in a big stressor or throw in you know something major like a birth childbirth and you might get off -kilter again but that doesn't mean you don't have all the control in the world to help mitigate that.

1:10:41I have to say, you know, as someone that comes from, I'm going to try and pronounce it again, naturopathic medicine. It is quite surprising to hear you talk about microdosing on a ZemPec. I know. Because, you know, I think naturopathic medicine, you'd imagine they were very much against microdosing or dosing, any sort of chemical pharmaceutical. Right. So how did you square the circle there? Because it's a peptide and it's been appropriated by the pharmaceutical industry because of its delivery system. But there's many other peptides that are available over the counter, for instance, in supplement form like BPC157, which is a regenerative peptide.

1:11:18It's also anti -inflammatory. All of these peptides generally are regenerative, anti -inflammatory, and healing. They all just kind of have their special skill set. So we've got a variety of different peptides that were pulled by the FDA because they work, is my opinion. But we also have ones that are available over the counter that are in sprays, that are in pills. If you go get hurt, you can order them online. It's legal. I'm not talking any black market. These are reputable companies in a supplement form, and you can induce phenomenal healing in your body. And these are available. People just don't know about them and they don't know how to use them.

1:11:49And they are a bit expensive. This is just another peptide. It just happens to be held over here. And it's being used in a way by brand name pharmaceutical, big pharma companies in a way that I just don't think is appropriate for peptide use. You've used that phrase done correctly a few times when you're talking about the microdosing of a Zempec. And you've also highlighted there, but also previously in this conversation that people are using it wrong. So I, or using it into high -evolved dose. So I, I brought with me today, some little science lab, which I've got over there in the corner, because I would like you to show me when we talk about microdosing, A, what microdosing is, as a term, what does that mean?

1:12:30But also, could you show me the comparative difference in how you would, and you are giving your patients a Zempec, what dose you're giving them out comparatively? So how it's typically being administered in what dosage for the sort of weight loss effects that we've talked about, and that most people know it for. Sure, yeah, absolutely. So let me bring over the Zempec. Okay, so this is what they start people on. And then every month, every four weeks, in the traditional model, with the brand names like GoZempec and Wigobi and Monjoro, they double, this is, this would be specifically for somacletide.

1:13:09Okay, so let me back up here, just I've got my some with you. So typically when they administer a Zempec and still amacletide, they do it in a pen, which you kind of self -inject, which is at a controlled dose. Yes. So you can't give yourself whatever quantity you like. It's kind of like a set dose, you know, and it injects into you. Yep. Okay. Okay, so they start them here. With that much in it. So for people that I can't see because they're listening all the way over. It's 0 .25 milligrams. Okay. And then every month, they double the dose about over 16 weeks, they double the dose until they get folks generally.

1:13:48Now smart docs will stop people where they need to stop, but the standard is to get them up to about here per week per month. I'm sorry per week. Yes, per week. They do this per week. They get them up to here. This is what the studies have been done on. And so this is how it's traditionally dosed. And if you're severely diabetic or obese, I could see the rationale. I'm arguing, I still don't think that's necessary when you have the appropriate lifestyle interventions. If you're treating someone comprehensively using other peptides, using hormones, getting people to do the healthy lifestyle changes, I don't think this is necessary.

1:14:27And I think this leads to a very high risk for side effects. So we went from was it 0 .25 to 2 .5 basically? So 10 times more. Yeah. Over the space of X -MAT weeks. 16 weeks. 16 weeks. Okay, so they 10X the dose of over 16 weeks. Which looks like. Which is a lot. So you're taking that much injected into you self injected every week. Every week. Okay. And you do that. Your theoretical you're supposed to be on that dosage forever. Yes. And they don't ever stop. They don't take breaks. They're not concerned about receptor sensitivity. It's just they just go. It's just you're on this and you're on it for life.

1:15:05Now some there are really good weight loss docs out there. And they are helping their patients get off of them. And actually the more recent data is showing that when folks are exercising just it doesn't even matter what kind of exercise when folks are exercising in addition to they can come off more successfully and maintain the weight loss. So that's promising. However, my argument is in somebody who's metabolically optimized now, this isn't everyone. This isn't your severely obese patient. But in somebody who's metabolically optimized, I give them a fraction of this. And that differs by person.

1:15:36But I actually have to use an insulin syringe so that I can do a fraction of the starting dose. And I may never elevate it. I may never ramp it up. So compared to the 2 .5 milligrams in there, you're giving out how much? I'm giving a fraction of 0 .25. I'm giving a fraction of this. So you might be giving 0 .0. It depends. It depends on the patient. And without getting into detail because whenever I do people start playing with their dosage themselves and I've heard seen crazy things in the comment section of my post on Instagram. So I don't want to tell people exactly how to dose. But it depends.

1:16:13It depends on what they're going. And this is a bigger conversation because I don't ever do somaically tied as a monotherapy. I never do it by itself. I never just crank people on somaically tied and hope for the best. If that is the only geo, I'm sorry, if that's the only peptide they're using, they likely will have to keep going up. And so I have one patient who is obese and has some weight to lose. And I have taken nine months to get him to here, which is roughly one. One milligram. That's one milligram. So he's on one milligram. And I really don't want to raise it. I really want him doing more of the lifestyle interventions to start to heal the metabolism as well.

1:16:51So it's a multi -pronged approach. I'm trying to heal the metabolism at the end of the day. This is one tool, but there are other tools. But this is a pretty potent tool. So in the case of someone that is micro -dosing, how frequently are they taking that small dose in this small sort of petri -dition front of you? It depends. So give me a case study of the typical person. Well, it depends on what I'm going for, what my short -term goals are, what my long -term goals are. So for myself, I was having to do a fraction of this droplet here, not this, this once a week. As people heal and improve, they're able to space that out.

1:17:29Some people can space it out two weeks. So some people are dosing every two weeks. Some people are dosing once a month. It really depends. Some people are, there's a lot of folks thinking they're micro -dosing, but they're actually just barely going below that point two five. They're still almost right at it. So they're still doing a large percentage of this. And that's not really micro -dosing. But they're getting results. And so my goal is always just to dose people just below symptoms. I never want them symptomatic. I never want them saying I'm nauseous or I'm throwing up or having any of that.

1:17:56There's no need for any of that. I want them just below symptoms and I want them continually improving and getting the results I'm looking for. There might be lowering of blood pressure. It might be improvement in mood. It might be, you know, continuing clearing of their skin lesions. It depends on what we're going for. And then my goal is to cycle this. So I will try to get them off for as long as I can. And I will try try to take breaks for as long as I can because I want the cells to resensitize. So that might be, like I said, two weeks. It might be a month. Some folks might just do this a couple times a year.

1:18:29They may not be on it continuously. They might just do what we call a cycle. This is, you might be familiar with this. If you've interviewed anyone on testosterone therapy often, it's a cycle. And so they'll do a few months, maybe 90 days on. And then they'll take some time off. It totally depends on the patient and what I'm going for though. And it depends on, again, what am I trying to accomplish short term and what am I trying to accomplish long term and how compliant are they being with the rest of the treatment plan? So give me a case study then of someone who has microdosed with you successfully.

1:18:58And they've gone from ill health in some form to healthy. So my mom is a great example. She started on a tiny little bit, because like I said, she's older and she's a bit frail and she was going into it with gut issues already. So a very tiny little bit, she actually ramped herself up. I'm not sure why. She ramped herself up a bit. She got a bit symptomatic. So she was still at well below this droplet amount. And I've recently, it's been maybe nine months. I've recently brought her back down to a droplet. And I'm trying to keep her there. And she's still doing it once a week. And we're starting to play with how long can she go off of it before we start to see symptoms.

1:19:36I don't want the symptoms to come back full bore because then we know tissue destruction's happening. I'm trying to heal people in the process of treating people. If that makes sense. I want both to happen, but she also needs to be compliant with all the things. And so something I'm hearing about a lot, which is a great case example is many of my colleagues who I have a program where I teach people how to do this and many of my colleagues are thinking they're microdosing and they're not. And then they start calling me and they're like, they're either running into symptoms or they're hitting a wall and their patients are plateauing.

1:20:06They say it's not working anymore. I'm like, well, what are you going for? If they're going for weight loss, they are going to plateau. If they're not because they haven't implemented the strength training yet or they haven't implemented maybe some of the other bioidentical hormone replacement or whatever it may be, you know, they're not doing the they're not taking care of all of it holistically. And so they're running into some barriers. What is what is the role it's playing? If you're doing it at such low doses, what is the role that it would play for someone with, for example, chronic pain or some form of inflammation in their body?

1:20:36Well, why is such a small dose important in the bigger picture you described there of getting their health back in shape? Is it because of what you said earlier about the brain fog and getting them to a state where they can make better decisions? Well, I think it's actually also in the brain. So GLP1 is secreted in the brain. Something that most people think is that it's secreted in the gut and then it makes its way to the brain. There's actually different regions of the brain where GLP1 is produced and there's receptors all over the brain to receive the GLP1. So I think something very important is happening in the brain that we really are only just starting to understand.

1:21:11And I believe that the downstream impacts of that, of healing that, like I said at the beginning, if we heal the brain, we heal the immune system, we heal everything downstream. And so I'm really trying to have a cognitive impact. And so that's it becomes more critical than to do all the lifestyle interventions that reduce neuroimplamation. We want to make sure they're taking supplements that are supportive for brain health. We want to make sure that their lifestyle habits are supportive to brain health. They're not continuing to drink a bunch of alcohol, although this makes most people not want to drink even at tiny doses.

1:21:44Most people just want to stop drinking. It's really phenomenal. They want to kind of stop doing all their bad habits. They want to stop chronically shopping. They want to stop all the dopamine chasing habits that they have, which is now if you go too high, though, you start to impact reward systems, and I can see where they start to get depressed. So I'm trying to have a positive healing regenerative impact on the brain and the immune system to ultimately heal them up. And hopefully I can take them off of them. Or maybe they might have to revisit it if there's a flare. If something comes up in their life that sort of set, like I said, you kind of get set back over the edge, we might have to bring it on board for a minute.

1:22:20But I'm ultimately doing an initial healing phase. And then I'm doing a maintenance phase. You've mentioned alcoholism, and you mentioned your husband earlier as well. Is that research to show the impact that it has on addictions? They're studying it. But people want to stop smoking. People want to stop doing cocaine. People want to stop doing all kinds of things. And it's very interesting. And Yohan actually talks about this in his book. And he does a nice job of breaking down the science there on it. They looked at rats and they thought, okay, well, if this is just crushing the reward system, then it would crush all the reward systems.

1:22:59But it's not crushing libido for people. And it's not crushing some of the other reward seeking behaviors. It just seems to be crushing many other ones that are pathologic or not so great for our health and long run. And he actually talks about a study that I've read as well where they took rats. And they gave them sort of that like yummy emulsion of that sweet sugar, salty, deliciousness. And then they gave them rat chow. And when they put them on some acclutide, they stopped seeking out the yummy devas. I mean, that's the cut. That emulsion is what makes you become very metabolically compromised.

1:23:34And they still ate the rat chow. They still went for, they went for the healthy food. I don't know how healthy rat chow is. That's debatable. But they went for the more nutritionally dense food. And they actually stopped seeking out the pleasure food. And I'm seeing that across the board with all kinds of behaviors. I got a message from a lady. She said, I had no idea. I had such a severe online shopping habit. Like, I would just fill the cart up and purchase. And then she started filling the cart up and not purchasing. And now she's not even online shopping. She's not even like going in to make the, to have the experience.

1:24:04It's really interesting. What's going on in the brain there in your opinion? It plays on the hypothalamic pituitary access to some degree. And it is impacting dopinergic pathways. And at the end of the day, the dopinergic pathways are dopamine seeking system is in a simplistic way to describe it as our addiction system. So we chase that dopamine drag and that dopamine drag and might be sacks. It might be gambling. It might be cigarettes. It might be whatever it is. Whatever that thing is that gives us that hit. And interestingly about dopamine and why it becomes such a process. I mean, I think a lot of it is the cell phones.

1:24:40It's this quick. We've got a very quick reward system society. You know, back when I was a kid, we had to like wait outside in the freezing cold all night to buy concert tickets. And now you guys are like, well, I'm just going to buy whatever I can afford to get the best seat. It's a very different world, you know. And everything's right on our fingertips. And it's very, it's very quick response. And so our dopamine circuitries really screwed up. Dopamine is healthiest and signaling best when we're seeking out the challenge. It's not when we get to the it's not when we win. Have you ever wanted something really badly and then you succeeded and you got there and you were like, I just not feel it's just wasn't what I it's because it was the journey there.

1:25:19It was the conquest of getting the thing of achieving the goal. That's what gave you the dopamine. It's not as much getting the thing at the end of the day. And this is playing somewhere in that system. And people are just not having the reward -seeking behavior as they were. I've had so many people reach out to me and say, when it came to food in particular, this must be what normal people's brains feel like. I don't wake up obsessed thinking about food. I don't go throughout my day obsessed thinking about food. I can actually think about other things. Really what we're seeing here then is that hunger is much more than a desire for food.

1:25:56Hunger is a much broader sort of psychological phenomenon. That's about dopamine and reward and all these things. When we attack, so G .O .P .1's role isn't just in hunger. It's in this biggest psychological sort of incentive structure. It was weird because as you're saying that this morning, I didn't eat right because I don't have breakfast and I didn't have lunch because I was doing my annual health check. So they say you got a fast beforehand. So I didn't have anything. My first meal per se was about 2 pm. You can see my little jab on my own. They got you. The little cannula thing where they put a mound.

1:26:27I got to about 3 pm and I hadn't eaten and I have this drawer in my car that you can't typically pick up guessing. It's got some less healthy snacks in. I tried to stay out of it. But because I hadn't eaten for some reason, I was like, I need to go in the journey, food. I need to go and eat the sugary stuff. As you were talking, I was thinking, is the administration of G .O .P .1 and Zampak just bringing down that noise a little bit to the point that I'd no longer want the sugary snack draw? Because I was thinking to myself this morning, if that was the start of the day when I was less hungry, I wouldn't have been thinking about that snack draw.

1:27:05But because the day went on and I became more hungry, I had a great upholon dopamine. So there's people living, you know, their everyday lives with this kind of greater demand for dopamine. For whatever reason, and it's coming from gambling or porn addiction or shopping addiction, and what G .O .P .1 is doing is it's just bringing not just the fit that I need food that the hunger down, it's bringing this sort of dopamine pathway down in terms of volume. It's quieting the noise. That's a really good way to put it. And that's how people describe it. It's they call it the food noise or the hedonic urges.

1:27:39It quiets the noise down. And that's why I was saying earlier that it gives people this wonderful window of opportunity to be back in the driver's seat. They sometimes for the first time in their life have full control over what they're choosing to eat, when they're choosing to eat, what they're putting in their mouth. And some people didn't have that control before. And it's not just dopamine. We've got leptin, we've got grellen, we've got these different appetite. They're also peptide signaling hormones. And they all play together, and they don't play well if G .O .P .1 is not in there. So if leptin is happening and grellen is we can go into the details of that if you want.

1:28:15If G .O .P .1 is not there, the orchestra doesn't work. And there's a lot of folks sitting around with leptin resistance, insulin resistance. They're not responding to grellen. Even the cell receptor is getting to the edge of the membrane is sometimes G .O .P .1 contingent. And so my argument is that sometimes the tiniest little amount might be what that person needs to kind of harmonize the orchestra. Maybe we can't have, and this is the other reason I don't love an immunotherapy. Imagine a jazz band and you just had one big bass drum. That would be ridiculous. It would sound terrible, right?

1:28:49The nuance in the jazz drummers, what makes jazz so cool. A lot of folks are using this at this dose, this huge dose, and that's the big old bass drum. And they're just crushing the whole brain circuitry to suppress hunger period. And they're ending up with all these downstream side effects, which are not fun. My argument is if we just harmonize the orchestra, but sometimes we need a little estrogen or a little progesterone, or we need a little bit of this, or that we need to do some lifestyle things to get the leptin resistance to reset, and the insulin resistance to reset. But we might need a little bit of G .O .P .1 on board.

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1:30:38Well, I think we would be far more concerned with high doses. That's what most people are on are on high doses. We're really not seeing the safety signal blowing off the way that people are concerned about. In fact, we're seeing the opposite of that. Some really good data has come out refuting many of the studies that we're so concerning in the past few months even. Some of it's just being presented at different conferences. So it's not being published yet, but I keep up with all of it. It's very exciting. We're not seeing a signal on pancreatitis. We're not seeing bowel obstruction. Gastroparesis, I think it's fair to say that the highest risk group for gastroparesis is type 2 diabetics.

1:31:18It's because they are sugaring up their vagus nerve. The high blood sugar is actually destroying the vagus nerve, which is causing low -grade gastroparesis. So they're already sitting on the edge of it in many cases and then they're being cranked into these crazy high doses and getting thrown over the edge. A real concern is biliary disease. So gallstones. When you go on a very severely, colorically restricted diet, your bile sludge is up in your gallbladder. So gallbladder is already very often compromised in an obese individual and it's already sludgy and it maybe already has some stones forming.

1:31:51And then they go on a caloric restriction. That lack of food going through the digestive tract will cause the bile to sludge up. They'll throw a stone into the pancreas. The number one cause of pancreatitis is fatty pancreas, which people with metabolic dysfunction already have. The second cause is a gallstone and the third cause really is excessive severe weight loss done too quickly. So we're taking people and thrusting them up on these high doses. They're often already sitting on the edge of many of these conditions and then they're getting thrown over the edge. It's like, well, yeah, no wonder.

1:32:27When I started looking at the terrible side effects, I was like, well, of course, I mean, anybody who is severely diabetic or severely obese is already sitting on the edge of that. And so my argument is, why are we throwing people on these high doses and sending them over the edge? I don't think taking a tiny amount of something is nearly as concerning as the high doses. But the rates that you're hearing in the media are not the rates that are showing up in the studies. Even of these terrible side effects I just mentioned. I have always believed that there's no such thing as a free lunch. That's fair.

1:32:58In life. And you know, whenever someone tells me that something is good for me, it always comes with a cost. You know, like, that just seems to be the way that life works. And I like that life has that balance to it where there is no, you know, anything that's worthwhile, whether it's starting a business, having a great marriage or relationship, raising kids. There's so much of an upside in there, so much of a cost, you know. And so as it relates to microdosing, it's impact. My brain is going, there's got to be a cost. There is no reward. There is got to be a cost. That's fair. We have to think about the risk reward ratio.

1:33:37And that's the risk of the risk of COVID, the real risk of COVID, whatever that looked like, depending on the scale of susceptibility you had for poor outcomes. So if you were 65 or older, you were on poor health, there was a real risk. And then you have the reward. We have to look at what lockdowns did. We have to, I mean, 146 % increase risk of suicidal ideation. All kinds of, I mean, I get the stats on that. I don't even want to, like makes me sick when I start thinking about what happened. I was just driving over here and the Uber driver was telling me how nobody goes to church anymore and all the bars are, the pubs are closing because the culture, the pub culture is going away, not because of drinking, but because of just people joining, like gathering in community, you know, like he said it was, the COVID was the end of so much of London that he saw.

1:34:26And he's been driving for, in some form or another for 15 years through London. And so we have to look at risk reward ratio and the risk of walking around in a chronically inflamed state for somebody who say has psoriatic arthritis. I have thought about this. And I'm like, you know what? The risk that I'm seeing in the data from high doses of this is probably not nearly the risk of a tiny dose of it. And it certainly is better than the clinical outcomes of walking around with raging psoriatic arthritis for the next 30, 40 years, which is dementia, my spine fusing, lack of movement, muscle wasting, chronic pain, so on and so forth.

1:35:07The real risk of obesity is tremendous. And something that a lot of people don't appreciate is when we start to gain weight in middle age, that's a low grade insulin resistance happening. And so a woman will gain, you know, somewhere between 45 and 50, she might gain 10 pounds. Okay, we get a little thicker as we get a little older. Okay, maybe the next five years she gains another 10 pounds. And we just sort of accept it as a society. Like all our moms kind of get bigger, right? And all moms just get bigger and they all end up looking like they, you know, the whole, the moms, the grandma's everyone ends up in my family round by the end of it.

1:35:42Well, now my family's starting to drop dead of heart attacks. They're all on lifestyle medications. They're on statins and blood pressure medications. And all of these things in my thinking is what if that process never even started? What if I was able to intervene with not just GLP ones, but all the other tools I had available to me that I didn't have when they started. I wasn't out of school yet. I didn't know what I know now. What if I was able to intervene and give them decades more of a high quality life? And that's what longevity medicine is. That's what hormones are. That's what bioidentical hormone replacement is.

1:36:14And what these other peptides are that we've been using for long time in clinical decades and clinical practice. And I don't know if you probably don't, but the Women's Health Initiative 20 plus years ago came out with data showing estrogen and progesterone replacement therapy is dangerous. And all women were immediately ceased. Doctors got scared. Everybody got taken off their hormones. We just destroyed an entire generation of women over the past 20 years. Doctors that were smart, like myself and my colleagues, we read the data and we realized that they were giving them progestin and not progesterone.

1:36:51And there was nothing unsafe about what they were getting. And so we kept everybody on their hormones. And I'm like, well, here's informed consent. I would tell the patients, this is the data, this is what we're going to do. They agreed or didn't agree. That's called informed consent. Here's your risk to reward ratio. And they've just reanalyzed the data in the past few months and decided that they were wrong. It was bad data. They shouldn't have taken all these women off of hormones. The amount of dementia and cardiac disease and bone fractures and on and on and on that happened because those women were starved of hormones is devastating to me.

1:37:25So it comes down to understanding the mechanism of action of how these things work, sharing that as best as you can with your patients and then having a conversation and letting the patient decide. So but in the case of the microdosing, you're going to tell me the upsides in that informed consent tonight. What would you tell me the downsides might be? I would tell you the downsides that we see in the data with the high doses. Okay, but then you would extrapolate from there that you would have those downsides meant but in smaller frequency. Much, much smaller potential. But also you keep a sharp eye on your patient.

1:37:59You don't just send somebody out with a prescription and say, see, yeah, good luck. You know, it's close monitoring. You're making sure to keep track of things. We're running labs. We're checking in. We're it's upside versus downside. People are going to listen to this and they're going to think, okay, so I should be microdosing as impact. And what might happen is people will go online and they'll try and buy a Zempec and then they'll at home start, I don't know, putting it in their tea or whatever. Oh, no. That's not a good idea. I would I don't know what the situation is in the UK, but I know in the United States, we have longevity doctors.

1:38:37We have smart functional medicine doctors. We have doctors that have access to compounding pharmacies. And I'm hearing at least in certain parts of Canada, there are compounding pharmacies. I don't know what the situation is in the UK. I believe there are compounding pharmacies are being driven out by big pharma because they're pretty punk rock. They're doing individualized medicine for patients. They create medications for a patient at the dose that's tolerable for the patient. And I highly encourage folks to do their research and find a doctor who's willing to work with them. And at the very least, consider the starting dose that is in the pre -filled pens and talk to your doctor about not escalating so quickly and making sure that you implement the other lifestyle factors aggressively so that you don't have to increase the dosage.

1:39:25And I'm hearing from people in my program that are doing quite well that way. They don't have access to compounding pharmacies. They don't even have access to like a longevity doctor. I understand that's not available for everyone. And there's economic issues. I get all that. So they're finding great success in that .25 milligram and they're being really diligent about all the other lifestyle interventions and they're doing awesome. And so I don't know any doctor that would want to crank up a dose of any medication. If a patient came to me and said, Doc, I want to start on this, you know, the standard is this dose.

1:39:54I want to start on this dose and I don't want to go up. I'd be like, hallelujah because anytime you increase the dose of anything, you're going to get side effects. Are you seeing the weight loss benefits in people that are microdosing? If they're metabolically optimized and or they really start working on it. So if somebody walks in and they've got 30, 40 pounds to lose, I have seen them successfully microdosing. So long is they take that opportunity to do all the things. They cannot sit on their ass and eat junk food. All the things. What are all the things? So strength training. A couple times a week, lifting something heavy.

1:40:27That might just mean filling up water jugs and picking them up and walking across your room. It might mean picking up your cat and doing some squats every night. Just starting to use the muscle and why strength training? Because muscle is the currency of metabolic health. Like we need muscle mass in order for ourselves to be optimally insulin sensitive. It's just how it works. We gobble up our blood sugar and we regenerate our mitochondria predominantly in the muscle. So we need muscle. It's a very important organ system. It's not just a mover, you know, we don't just move our bones around with it.

1:41:01You've got to have got Dr. Gabriel lying on and she'll give you the whole muscle conversation. But muscle is absolutely non -negotiable. And so strength training, man, woman, I don't care what age they are. It's something we have to focus on. It might be push -ups. It might be, I saw some cool stuff around the parks around here. You guys have, it's way better here than it is in the US. It's like not even emphasized. So my husband's like, that's like a setup thing. And that, you know, it was like some blocks of wood with some metal on it. But it was set up as a little exercise area in one of the parks.

1:41:31So making sure that's dialed in prioritizing protein. Making sure the food you choose to put in your mouth is nutritionally dense. What's the bang for your buck? Is it brightly colored? Is it coming from a lab or coming from a factory and a package with a 100 ingredients in it or is it a whole food? Is it food that came off the farm? Is it food that looks like how God made it? How do you want to think of it? It's simplistic. So I'm going to start lifting weights. I'm going to I'm going to start lifting weights and then I'm going to start eating lots of protein. Yes. And what else do I need to do?

1:42:09Make sure that you eat a variety of colorful foods. Right? So just focus there. I hate taking foods away from people. Start there. You'll fill up. And then you don't need the rest. You're going to get up and go for three walks a day. Like I mentioned, three 10 minute walks. And I think ideally morning because you're getting your morning sunlight, go out at noon. So you're a high noon light. You're going to do wonderful things for your leptin and for your circadian rhythm. If you hit the light at three times a day and then you're going to go for that late afternoon walk. So that might just be going out with your dog.

1:42:36It might be going out with a friend, whatever. Might be going out at lunch break, whatever. Just go around the block. These are these these sound very similar to your six pillars for a pain free life, which you write about in your book, Pain, Free and Strong. Yeah. So we covered a few of them. We've covered the strength training one. And I had some really awesome stats that I found in one study, 186 people with tight two diabetes was split into three training programs. One was one group with strength training. The next was moderate cardio training. And the third is a combination of both. And the strength training only group lost the most fat gain the most strength and lean body mass.

1:43:11And I had the biggest decrease in insulin resistance. And that was in women's health. And I think one of the things that we've always assumed, and I've certainly assumed is that as I get older, I'm just going to lose muscle. And that's just what it is. Yeah, it's not true. Now, it's we even have studies showing that folks in their 70s can maintain and build muscle. Even if we maintain it, right, even if we can just maintain it. So it's critical. This is not negotiable. I have a 24 year old daughter who is starting to understand this. She's starting to get it, right? And she's like, okay, mom, what do I do?

1:43:42And I'm like, just pick up your dog. She's got two different dogs that are two different sizes. I'm like, just do squats with your dogs. Start doing pushups off the side of your couch. You can do this at home, right? There's so many opportunities online now that everything's out there and it's free. You just have to actually put in the time. We've covered movement there. We covered strength. We've covered the food and gut. The four others you've got in this pillar. One of them is sleep. Sleep. So sleep can be elusive for folks, especially if they've got hormonal issues and or they've got insulin resistance and metabolic dysfunction, which drives the hormonal issues.

1:44:13So it's really important that you you have to prioritize your sleep, but you have to protect your sleep. And when I say protect it, I mean, are you sleeping with a husband who's snoring all night long? Are you in a really noisy environment? Do you have to add ear plugs in? Is it too bright in your room? Do you have to put an eye mask on? Like what's basically pieging? Get the TV out of the room. The TV is not helping you. The bedroom is for sex and sleep. Get the husband out of the room. Maybe. Well, you know what? People snore when they're metabolically unsound and they're overweight too. So if we can get the husband involved in the activities, then hopefully everybody gets better and the snoring goes down.

1:44:49So yes. You'll get a new husband. Yeah. When I was dating, it was a big deal. Actually, I was like, I would ask them on the first date, how's your sleep? And if they said it was not good, I'm like, that's not agreeable to me. I'm not messing with this. So just really off to going to bed at the same like be an adult, be a grown -up. We put our kids to bed at a normal time every day. We have a rhythm with them, right? They go to bed. They get up at the same time every day. We have to do that with adults. Stop sleeping with your phone by your head. Stop sleeping with it in the room. We're not sleeping pills.

1:45:16I don't love sleeping pills. I have used them clinically. I don't love ambien or any of those types of drugs, but there are other options to help people get to sleep. We can use herbs, I think pretty well too. But we have got to we've got to do to reset the sleep. But I'll tell you, number one, if your sleep is off and you're not exercising every day, I don't even want to hear about it because if you're not exhausting your energy like you would, your puppy or your child, of course, you're not going to be able to sleep. And number two, if your circadian rhythm is screwed up, if you're not getting out that morning sunlight is so huge.

1:45:48If you're not getting out in the daylight, I know when it's gray in Oregon sometimes, it's gray all day long. And I can't even tell what time of day it is. And I will still go out there in a raincoat and make sure I'm out in the daylight, even though it's gray as heck. So that is absolutely critical. Both of those things will help improve your sleep. Why did you include mindset as one of your six? Because you have to believe that you're going to accomplish this. That goes into the dopamine pathway. It's a challenge, right? This is my challenge. This is and I mean challenge in a good way. I think of it as a quest, not as a negative challenge, right?

1:46:19I don't want people to ever feel like they're up against an insurmountable wall. I heard that a lot with COVID when I was talking about weight loss and metabolic optimization, people would say, I have too much weight to lose. There's no point. There's always a point. We can always start to decrease inflammation and improve metabolic health, even if the scale isn't shifting. It doesn't matter. So we really have to go into this with a winner's mindset. We have to be goal oriented. I'm sure you could actually chime in on that too. Like what are the things that you do that drive you to get up and go do the things that you do that might be hard or challenging, but you know they are what you need to do to move the needle.

1:46:53And that's mindset. It has to start there. If it doesn't start there, if you don't make a decision, a concerted decision to execute, you're never going to get there. That's super difficult, isn't it? It is. People are so riddled with their own traumas and their own complex psychological state that getting them to shift their perspective on the world is like kind of a religious person to another faith. It is. But I think people are outcome oriented. And I see the potential, but that's why I said, remember short -term long -term goals. If I'm only focused on the outcome, I'm never going to get there.

1:47:24And when I do that dopamine is going to drop off and I'm going to be like, shit, I'm going to fly, you know, just fly back to where I was. It's the short term. It's the I want to win. I want to feel better. I want a better life for myself. I want a better life for my children. I want to be a better person for the people around me. Maybe people are single and they're looking for someone. I always get asked that, how do you find a great guy? I'm like, you have to be a great person. You have to make yourself a great healthy person to attract another great healthy person. So it's the journey. It's not the destination, right?

1:47:51That's just health. One on one, it's the journey, not the destination. Interestingly, in your book, you don't have a chapter about this, but you've said in other situations that soreners have been a pretty critical beneficial tool for you and your health over the past couple of years. Yeah, Son, just getting hot. You can get hot in a bathtub. You can get hot through exercise, but just getting your body heat up will induce heat shock proteins, which does so many great things for your brain and immediately makes people feel better. People wonder often, they go do some aerobic exercise and they think it might be the endorphins from the run.

1:48:29And I'm like, if you turned into a sweaty master in that, you got a whole bunch of other benefits too, right? We're moving limb, we're moving blood. It doesn't sound that sexy, but those heat shock proteins are it. They have a significantly positive impact on our immune system. Somewhere around 40 % reduction in pneumonia when induced. So like, do all the things, right? Just go get hot. And when I am out of sorts and my immune system is flaring and I'm sort of at the end of my wits and I don't know what to do, I just think I got to go cook the shit out of myself. I just got to go get hot and get sweaty.

1:49:00And then generally the solution comes to me, or I have a better path ahead of me, right? A little bit of light will come out ahead. I'm like, okay, that's the direction I have to go. And so, Sonna is a wonderful way to do it, but I know that's not available to everyone. So bath tubs, just getting hot. When I look back through your childhood and your teenage years and I see all this pain, you know, there's a lot of pain. Five years old during hospital, nurses are forcing you down. As you go through your teenage years, you were in a really dark place mentally. As you said, you were suicidal and you tried to overdose on medicine.

1:49:37I think I was a early, I was talking to my husband about this the other day. I think I was a really early version of what we're seeing with so many young people today. I think I was, you know, I was brought up on a lot of ultra -processed foods. As ultra -processes they would have been in those days, a lot of wonder bread and baloney and, you know, velveted cheese. I don't know what you have here, but you know, like a processed cheese blob. And I think that my falling apart of my health and my mental well -being and my teenage years was a direct result of just severe malnutrition and ultra -processed food addiction.

1:50:12Did you have ADHD as well? Yeah, they called it hyper -canetic. And you know what the solution was? They said, get her a dog and make sure she's always physically active and keep her away from white foods. So breads, cookies, crackers, processed foods, right? That was as processed as it got. And I always think of that old doctor and that advice because it was perfect. It's perfect. Whenever I have a patient who's really ailing, I'm like, you have a dog. It's really important. They have a dog. There's so many reasons. But it's just simple stuff. And I think what we're seeing now is a very extreme version of that.

1:50:45And so many young people are really, really, really suffering. And my daughter was one of them and she's 24 and her friends are all so sick and have such health troubles. And it's, there's no answers. There's only just more drugs. Their moms are sick. Their moms all have autoimmune disease. I mean, it's just devastating to me. So to me, you say, you know, you mentioned like it's hard when we're in the soup of toxins. But to me, it's, I'm put, that's my pushback. That is how I push back against the system. I want to, in fact, as many people as I can with the truth of their responsibility of taking care of themselves, the best way that they can.

1:51:21And you don't have to do all of it all at once. Like I said, it's a journey. So just pick one thing, like start with the walks or start with the milk jugs and the push -ups or the squatting your cat. I don't care. Whatever it is. But start with one thing and then start to build and just start making these things habits, right? Just routine and habit, routine and habit. And to me, they're just non -negotiable. It's just the way it is. And that's the only way I, I mean, I'm batshit crazy if I don't lift weights. And I don't eat well. And I think a lot of people are. And I think we just medicate them or we just miss them or we just sort of allow them to sort descend further into the misery.

1:52:01We can live with neurodivergence. We can live with, I mean, I do think I have a bit of neurodivergence as well or whatever they would have called it back then. But I think that we can live with these things harmoniously and turn them into superpowers. So long as we take good care of ourselves, I had a whole career built off of helping people with chronic pain because I understood it because I had lived with chronic pain my whole life, right? Like I intimately understood how to help them. And I thought outside the box because I knew what it felt like. And I just wanted to help them. And I think that that's what it comes down to.

1:52:31And you're in your early 30s. But when you get to your late 40s and you start waking up and you're like, oh, so this is what, you know, what it feels like. Hopefully you'll become more proactive. That's when you really start getting into it. And then you start seeking out other options. Maybe you, maybe you will meet somebody, I would then a hormone replacement then, you know, maybe you'll, you'll have a different perspective at that point a bit as you go and experience it because we all do, right? We can be vehemently one way. And I'm not saying you are, but a lot of people are really dogmatic.

1:52:58And I'm like, okay, well, like the people who really hate on ozempic, I'm like, well, it's showing great promise with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. I hope you never need it. If you're so vehemently against it that you won't even consider it, you know, I don't mean you, but just in general, like be open -minded and seek knowledge. What is the most important thing that you have to share that maybe we haven't talked about? Is there anything that we've missed? I would honestly just say, always seek knowledge, always be learning, always be seeking knowledge, always be open -minded to different things, even if you've taken a hard stance on something, consider alternatives.

1:53:34And when you hear people telling the truth or it sounds like they're telling the truth, double -check them, look up sources, don't just follow influencers, don't just follow what someone says on Instagram or what someone says on a podcast, go look it up and learn more. I often are planting seeds for my audience often and I will tell them something and they want all the information right then and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm trying to get you to actually go look up more information. I want everyone in my audience to be a knowledge seeker because that is how you learn and that is how you grow and that's how you stay on top of it.

1:54:08And that's how you stay one step ahead, right? I have a closing tradition on this podcast as well where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for. And the question left in the Darivis here for you is see. When you reach the end of your life, what has brought you the most joy and is that the thing you're most proud of?

1:54:33Yes, I have picked a hard path for myself. I always try to be brave and tell the truth as I know it and it's not always popular and as my audience grows, it gets harder because I get more and more pushback. But I refuse to step down when I find something that can help people. I have dedicated my life to trying to get that message out to as many people as I can if it would be helpful to them. And so while it at times I've felt like what have I done? Why do I keep doing? I feel like Joan of Arc at times, you know. I'm the girl over here with the early on popular opinion. But I feel proud of that.

1:55:11I know my daughter is proud of me and I know that I've helped a lot of people. A lot. I know a lot of people have and they've come back to me and said you saved my life in one way or another and I'm really proud of that. And that's I just want to be a service as best I can. And my gift I think is taking complicated information and explaining it simplistically so that people can implement. And while that's been hard and challenging and I've received a ton of pushback that has aged me and made me sick at times, I'm really proud of that. Dr. Tina Moore. I find it so interesting, you know, because it's an idea.

1:55:47This idea of microdosing a Zampag is not one that I've come across before. I discovered your work online and I'm of the contingent where I like to hear new ideas that maybe haven't had all the clinical studies run on them before. But I like to I like to imagine the possibilities and then obviously their scientists that are going to do the research and that research is going to continue for many decades to come. But I'm intrigued by it. I'm curious by it. It doesn't mean that I'm going to go on Google and start microdosing myself in my bedroom. I'm absolutely not going to do that. But I like how it assembles a picture in my mind about this new thing and the potential possibilities of this new thing.

1:56:28So that's why I wanted to have a conversation today. And I think as you've clearly said, everybody listening should do their own research. They should go out there. They should speak to their doctor. They should look at the studies that we've cited today. They should do their own independent research to form their own view. But I think all progress starts with these sort of initial hypotheses, these sort of anecdotal experiences. And then society eventually catches up. Or society proves that that hypothesis was something else or wrong in some way. And that's why I have these conversations because I think it's, you know, when I think handled in the right way and when presented with the nuance of all these subjects, they can be the start of a snowball that can cause society to start asking questions.

1:57:11And through that debate and through that investigation, we can hopefully arrive at a better place. And I especially like these conversations when I believe that someone's intent and their intentions are so pure and so well intentioned. And that's certainly the case for you. So thank you so much for the work you're doing and all the wonderful people you've helped. I've seen so many hundreds of comments from people that have benefited from the work that you do. And I think that's a remarkable thing and a force for good in the world. So it's been a pleasure to speak to you, Dan. Thank you for making the journey despite the honeyated disk.

1:57:40Thank you so much for having me. It's a true honor.

1:58:07Q1 is often when businesses start implementing new systems and processes in hopes of creating efficiencies for the year ahead. And over the course of my career, I've learnt just how crucial having the right systems in places, one which has helped me across many of my investments is NetSuite. They're also a sponsor of this podcast. NetSuite is the number one cloud financial system through their streamlined platform. You'll find all of your accounting financial management inventory and HR in one place. Their technology has been a real game changer, especially for my team at Flight Studio. As over the last year, we've moved out of startup mode and into scale at mode.

1:58:42We no longer have to juggle multiple systems and having everything together has reduced the number of manual tasks and errors. Over 41 ,000 businesses have chosen to future proof their business with NetSuite. So if you'd like to learn how it can help your business, head to netsuite .com slash Bartlett and free download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning. That's netsuite .com slash Bartlett.