The Vegan Dr: The Truth About The Vegan Diet, "Eggs Are Making You Fat", "Stop Eating Cheese!" - Neal Barnard

24:44So our cousins are chimpanzees and gorillas and vanobos and orangutans. And they are never eating dairy at all. They are mostly or exclusively herbivores. So that's our natural diet. Those are great ancestors. Do they, any of them eat meat? Some do not all. Okay. And going back to your point about vitamin B12, you're saying, just so I'm clear, that we historically would have got that from our less sanitary environment by, you know, our ancestors pulling up leaves and eating some of the soil in the process. And those kinds of things, is that what you're saying? Well, that's one possibility. And the other possibility is, frankly, that we could absorb our own B12.

25:25Your digestive tract makes B12. But the question is, how absorbable really is it? And most people believe, and I think it's quite possible, that it's produced too low down by the gut microbiome to really be efficiently absorbed. So either way, my suggestion is, I wouldn't worry about it, you just take B12. It's in every multiple vitamin you ever took. And it's at the store. And do we just take it? And that way there's no worry. The DarioVaseos brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy.

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26:39Bonus issued is now the driver profit boost tokens. With stricken supply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See four terms at FanDul .com, SaaS Sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1 ,800 Gambling. The health experts, the nutritionists that I speak to on this podcast, I would say agree with what you're saying by about 90, 95, 90%. They, you know, thinking through what they've told me in private and on the show. They say you want to predominantly plants on the plate, you know, fruit and vegetables, all that stuff. And then it's okay to have a little bit of animal proteins as well on that.

27:14So like a little bit of chicken breast, for example, it's okay. And that as a balancing act gives you what we sort of an nutritionally complete diet. What's your thoughts on that? Great idea. It doesn't work. It's a little bit like the person who comes in to see me in the clinic. And they've got a chronic cough. I said, that I've had this cough for months now. I said, well, maybe it's time that we do stop smoking. And they say, all right, Doc, I'll stop. So they come in a week later and say, I'm still coughing. Well, did you stop smoking? Well, almost completely. I'm only having maybe two cigarettes a day.

27:49So, well, let's just cut it out completely. And things get dramatically better. So by analogy, when a person comes in, they've got a high cholesterol level, or they got weight they can't lose. And they're sort of 90 % vegan. That last 10%. You know, it really makes such a huge difference. And it makes a difference in a couple of ways. And by the way, I'm not encouraging people to take this on faith. If you just try it, you'll discover that when a person really gets the animal products out of their life, first of all, the physical benefits are dramatically better. A person who follows a plant -based diet on average is 35 pounds leaner than a typical mediating American.

28:28Or put it the other way, your average meeting in America is 35 pounds heavier than the typical, not very careful vegan. So it's a big difference. But beyond that, let's say I'm trying to follow mostly a plant -based diet, but once in a while I'll have some meat. What that does is that reawakens the neural circuitry for those addictive things. It's sort of like a smoker who decides that parties all smoke. What you're doing is you're never able to forget the taste of it. So it's a good idea to just, if something doesn't love you back, just get rid of it. But because that sounds like a heavy load, what I say to people is this.

29:04And the way we do it in our studies, take the first week. And your goal is just to lose some weight. You want to be able to see your abs again, whatever it is. You want to get off insulin. You want to feel better. Here are the studies that prove that it works. And then we sit down with the patient and his reluctant spouse, and they'll kind of map out what they're going to have for breakfast and for lunch and for dinner. And then they just think about it for about a week. They try the foods and they figure out the ones that really work. Great. Now we're going to do a three week test drive. And people at home should do this.

29:3721 days, you can do anything for 21 days. And you've already made your list of the foods that you like. At the end of 21 days, number one, physically you are a different person. You're losing that weight without calory counting, without ramping up your exercise. People are noticing the difference in you. But apart from the physical changes, your tastes are changing. You're discovering new things that you didn't have before. And better than that, you're forgetting the things that didn't love you back. One of our former guest, Strauss, you made a comment that veganism is a diet for the privileged.

30:09And he doesn't like how vegans make other people feel bad when they are just trying to support their kids. And I think there is a train of thought that says being vegan is expensive and it's difficult. And if you're at sort of time poor, financially poor, family, how do you, how does one become more plant -based when you're just trying to think first and foremost about how to get some food in your kids' bellies? That's such an important question. Because when we feed our children, we're not only nourishing them today, but we're setting in motion the foods that they will eat in the future. You're accommodating the child's tastes to the things you put on the table.

30:46So it's essential that they be healthy foods. We did a study that we just published in JAMA Network Open, the American Medical Association. Online Journal. And we brought in 244 individuals and half of them were asked to continue their current diet. The other half were asked to avoid animal products, keep oils low. It's a healthy vegan diet. And we tracked their weight, and as you can imagine, they lost weight. And we tracked their insulin sensitivity, got better, the things that you would imagine, all the benefit, their cholesterol is improved. But we also tracked their food expenses. And what we found is that overall, you're spending more on vegetables, you're spending more on fruits, you're spending more on beans and grains, and you're spending nothing on meat, nothing on cheese, your oils are, you know, you're cooking without them.

31:34And the average person saved 16%. Including the supplementation. Yes, B12 is pennies. So the average person's food bill dropped by about 16%. So in America, that means about a 500 bucks a year or something like that. So why is that? If a person is low on money, here in this country we have the SNAP program. We used to be called food stamps. You get a card. You go into the store. The cheapest thing in the store are these little bags of dried beans and the dried rice. And you can get a block of frozen broccoli that's three for a dollar and that kind of thing. And if you go into the bag and say, well, I'd like to have some cheese or some meat.

32:14That's where the money is. So when a person's on a plant -based diet, they're going to be saving money. Plus the fact is their need for medications goes way down. They're not at the doctor so much. Now, don't get me wrong. There are places that would love to charge you for asparagus water or some kooky thing. That's what we're talking about. You have a book coming out called The Power Foods Diet. You can get it everywhere now on Amazon and everywhere you'd find a book. It's this book here in front of me. And you kind of reverse the narrative as it relates to weight loss because you provide a much more positive perspective on how to lose weight.

32:50Your book doesn't tell people what they shouldn't be eating. It tells them what they should be eating. And although there's been lots written inside about weight loss, there is quite a lot of original thoughts and ideas. And there's a huge amount of supporting evidence, which I think really puts your book, stands it apart from the crowd. Why did you write this book? Why did you write a book about weight loss? Up until now, the whole idea has been, if I want to lose weight, I have to say no. I have to say no to calories, no to seconds, no to dessert. And I started thinking, wait a minute, there is a huge body of research that allows you to just push that off the table and say yes to certain specific foods that I call them power foods because they do three things.

33:30There are certain foods that are appetite tamers. The same reason that people are buying ozemic and wagovy, these injections that tame your appetite. Food will do precisely the same thing. That's what food releases GLP1 agonist and will tame your appetite. What is GLP1? Oh, I'm sorry, GLP1 is a compound made in the intestinal tract. And this is the thing that novoinoritus is trying to simulate with its weekly injection, initially marketed as ozemic. And then marketed under the name wagovy. In the US, it's been hugely controversial because it does cut down the appetite and people lose weight. But it costs them more than $15 ,000 a year.

34:11And the side effects nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, feeling terrible. And when you stop, all that weight comes right back. So anyway, it's big, hugely, very controversial. But what we've discovered is we brought in people, fed them different meals, and found that there are certain foods that cause GLP1 release naturally. That tames your appetite. So there are certain foods that tame your appetite. If you don't know what they are, you're trying to lose weight with one arm tied behind your back. The second thing is that certain foods trap calories in your digestive tract carry them out so you don't absorb them.

34:45And the third, and the most fun, is that certain foods ramp up your metabolism. So that your burning calories for about three or four or five hours after the meal faster than you were before, which we can measure. And we first published those data back in 2005, the American Journal of Medicine published our results showing that your after meal metabolism ramps up, not hugely, but about 15 % something like that. So then again, it about, I think it was 2020, we published this with JAMA Network Open. That they looked at a new group of participants. And the same thing happens that your metabolism ramps up.

35:24But so many people are struggling with, with weight, blaming themselves. And my answer is, wait a minute. We can, I can make you a wonderful meal. And you can lose weight naturally. Let me give you an example. There is a twins registry in the UK. Great registry they've got. In this particular study, they looked at not quite 3000 twins. Identical twins, same genetics. But then they did dexascans. It's a scan that looks not just at body weight, what it looks at is body composition. So how much body fat do you have? And they discovered that one twin, compared to the other twin, had 9 % less abdominal fat.

36:06If she was the twin eating more anthocyanins, what is that? Anthocyanins is the blue in a blueberry. Or in a grape. This is nature's painting box. And they're powerful antioxidants. And so then at Harvard, researchers looked at, okay, which foods are associated with weight loss? They looked at about 130 ,000 people in the nurse's health study and the health professionals follow up study. They track them year after year. And they say, okay, these people are eating more of this food, more of that food. How does that affect their weight change? And this is just an association. But what they discovered is that people who ate more beans would tend to lose more weight.

36:48People who ate more citrus fruit, even fruit juice, would lose more weight. People who ate more melons, water melons and candelopes and things, would lose more weight. And then green vegetables, but the number one food of all the foods that was associated with the most weight loss, was blueberries, blueberries and all their cousins, like raspberries and so forth, these anthocyanin rich foods. So why the heck is it that people who decide to eat more of these foods and bring them into their diet? Why are they losing weight? Well, okay, if you're eating the blueberries for the dessert, you're not eating the cream custard.

37:24Maybe that's part of it. But even when you control for that, you still see the weight loss. And we believe that the reasons are that these are always high fiber foods. They are always very modest in calories. And there is something about the effect of anthocyanins that may affect either our appetite or more likely our metabolism. On the point of anthocyanins is the color of the fruit, somewhat an indicator of anthocyanin? Yes, it is, but it could be tricky. Anthocyanins is a huge painting box that nature uses for blueberries, for the red grape that's anthocyanins. Strawberries are red, but it's a different anthocyanin.

38:02And in October, when the leaves are turning, those yellows and reds and golden colors are different anthocyanins. Tomato or watermelon, that bright red is not anthocyanins. That's lycopene. And that's an antioxidant too, but that's the cousin of beta carotene. So beta carotene is the orange and a carrot. Lycopene is the red and tomato. And the anthocyanins are the purples and the grapes and the blueberries and so forth. With blueberries, is there a positive impact on memory in the brain with blueberries as well? Very likely. I think, personally, I think we need more research, but our team and many others have been really excited about this ever since.

38:41Researchers at the University of Cincinnati brought in a group of people. And not just random people off the street, these were people selected because they were way up in years, average age, 76, 78. And they already had memory lapses. They had what we call mild cognitive impairment. They gave them a huge infusion of anthocyanins in the form of grape juice, a pint in a day. So maybe a cup in the morning, a cup at night. And over three months, they then tracked your ability to retain knowledge and your ability to remember. And what they showed is it was measurably increased over a placebo. And okay, that sounds to me too easy.

39:22So they did the study again and they used a different anthocyanin source. They now used blueberry juice, same result. So I continue to think that I think it's a good idea to be skeptical because people want to find some easy answer to things. And what's the rest of their diet controlled in their studies? In this case, no. Okay, so it could have been anything. It could have been very likely was. So what they did randomized. Randomized trial. And what you do is you take people and you just give them the anthocyanin drink versus some kind of placebo that looks the same. So I do think we need to be careful.

39:55And I think industry, you know, you'll have the blueberry industry or the grape juice industry jumping in with money as the dairy industry has been doing for a long period of time. So I think we should be skeptical. But when you see, for example, our group, we take no money from any food industry group ever. For exactly even healthy foods, we won't take their money because we want to make sure that we're unbiased in what we find. And you just, you want to look for consistency of findings. Do you ever wonder if you are biased? Because, you know, you've got that experience, that very sort of, honestly, traumatic experience from that morgue that day.

40:32And you end up writing books about these subject matters. It becomes part of your identity. And I even think with myself, like, for example, that is, I said about my girlfriend struggling with the vegan diet. That's created a bias in me, hasn't it? Do you ever wonder, or do you ever think about the chance that you might be biased in... the way that you look at the data or the data you look at? Of course. Every good scientist recognizes that bias can enter in any study. We all have biases, and that's why you have to do studies in a careful way. So, for example, when I do a study comparing a Mediterranean diet to a vegan diet, I make sure that the Mediterranean diet is taught by dietitians who personally follow Mediterranean diet themselves.

41:15And we'll talk it up, and I hire them for that purpose. And the vegan diet is taught by dietitians who believe in that diet. And then your statistics have to be done blindly by somebody who's not partial. But everybody has biases. And with tobacco, we went through this. Back in the 50s and 60s, you could say, well, I'm not sure if tobacco release causes lung cancer. And if somebody thought it was, well, you're biased. As today, if somebody does not strongly believe that tobacco causes lung cancer, you're just an idiot. I mean, it clearly does. But that doesn't mean you don't do tobacco research.

41:47You do. But you try to set your biases aside. A lot of people will just eat chicken steak because they just think it tastes nice. So, I think I'm in that camp. I think I was, you know, whether that's just a nature thing, you know, I was raised on eating chicken, my mom cooks chicken all the time. I love going to this steak restaurant in London called Flatiron. You know, if you guys want to give me this, can't go to it. I fucking go there all the time. But I just like the taste of it. So that's why big part of the reason I eat it. And as a young man, I want to get as much protein as I can. I want to work out.

42:22I want big strong muscles. I like the taste. It helps me grow my muscles. You know, you can do anything you want. You can. However, what you want today is what you ate yesterday. Our tastes can drift very, very readily to foods that we expose ourselves to. So, if the past week I'm eating chicken and so forth, that's what we tend to come back to. And that's what we accommodate to. And that's true for caffeine. That's true for every drug of abuse. That's true for foods that we get hooked on. It's true for cheese more than anything else. People listening to this broadcast are all nodding exactly right now because they're like, oh, I could be vegan except for the cheese.

43:00And that's I love cheese. Well, it doesn't love you back. Unfortunately, cheese has not to divert too much, but cheese is the one food that actually contains narcotics. The casing protein that's in milk comes out of the cow's outer. It digests in the calves stomach to release what are called kazo morphins. They're casing derived morphine -like compounds. And they go in the calf's blood to the calf's brain. And they attach to receptors, the very same receptor that an narcotic attaches to. So, if you drink a glass of milk, the very same thing happens is that your body takes the casing protein, pulls out the kazo morphins, they go to your brain and attach there.

43:45But the reason that cheese is more addictive than milk or even ice cream is because when you make cheese, you concentrate the protein and the fat. You remove all the lactose sugar in all the way. And it's just basically casing in mix with fat. And it's basically dairy crack. The big problem here, and for any guy who's thinking, do I want to stop eating dairy? Estradial, female sex hormones? If your mom has hot flashes and she's taking estradial to calmer flashes, that female sex hormone is in cheese. It's in milk. The cow makes it. Cow's naturally make estradial, and so it's in every slice of cheese you have right.

44:29But it gets worse. To get cheese, you have to milk a cow, and cows normally don't make milk. They make milk only after they've been impregnated. And if you don't mind, let me just walk you through how this happens, because I think it's good for people to be aware of. And every dairy farm, everywhere in the world, there's an underpaid guy who takes his left hand and puts a... glove on it up to his shoulder. And he sticks his hand into the cow's rectum, up to his elbow. And he grabs the cow's uterus. You can feel the uterus through the rectal wall. And you hold it steady, and with your right hand, you take what looks like a knitting needle, and you jam it into a vagina, right through the cervix, and you inject sperm that you took from a bull.

45:09Now, she will become impregnated, and she will not object, because she's chained up by the neck, and she can't turn around and stop you. And then you go on to the next one, the next one, the next one. Nine months later, after her gestation is finished, she will have a calf, which she didn't volunteer for, but this is now her baby. And she will look at that calf, and the calf looks up at mom, and all the farm hands gather around, because I got to tell you there's nothing cuter than this big bag of bones of this little calf was just born. And this is like the first hour of life. And then they say, well, wait a minute.

45:42You don't want that calf to suckle, because that milk is what we're going to sell. The milk that's made for her calf is we're going to sell. So we have an implement that solves that problem, and that's a wheelbarrow. So you put the calf in a wheelbarrow, and you carry the calf away. Now, the mother, the mother infant bond is the strongest bond we have in nature. She will follow, and she'll follow like effectively in her own bovine way, saying, this is my baby. And then a gate will stop, we'll hit her in the face, and she will stand right there and cry out. And the calf, if the calf is male, will very soon be killed for veal, because you can't use a male in the dairy industry.

46:25And if that calf is female, she will be put in an isolation, hutch, fed milk, replacer. And when she's about a year old, she'll get a hand up her butt, and she'll be impregnated. Now, in nature, a cow lives to be about 20. On a dairy farm, their milk production, although they're impregnated every single year, slacks off by about age four. And then they are hung up by their leg, and they are slit for low -grade beef. So the dairy industry is a meat industry. It just takes you a little while to get there. And every dairy cow is impregnated artificially. They're separated from their calf. And we just kind of put up with this.

47:05And during each pregnancy, she is continued to be milked. The estrogen comes down those milking tubes. It gets into this little swimming pool full of milk when they throw in the rennet, which is this genetically engineered enzyme that makes it clot. Then you throw in the bacteria. They give it that funky fermented flavor. And people get hooked on this stuff. And you're eating this mixture of estradiol, along with a huge amount of fat, and these animal proteins that have the quesadamorphins in them. And everybody gets hooked on this thing. And your average American eats 77 ,000 calories of cheese every year.

47:44And then they think they got that from eating bread. It wasn't the bread. It was that hunger cheese that was in between there that could explain the entire weight problem we have in America. So you're saying also that then men who are drinking the dairy products, and they're own sperm counts, etc. Is there any evidence for that drinking milk as a man will reduce your sperm count? Exactly. That has been discovered in New York, New York state. Researchers went into a fertility center. And you do sperm counts on men. And when you do a sperm count, what you're looking at is the count, the number of little sperm, you also look at their morphology, meaning their shape, and their motility, meaning are they swimming straight?

48:27And what they have shown in at least two studies that I'm aware of, that men who consume the most cheese have the lowest sperm counts and the worst mortality and morphology. Motility and morphology. And the reason, of course, is here swallowing estrogen every day. But it gets worse than that. When you eat cheese, you're eating something that's three quarters fat. It's really high in calories. And added to your chicken fat and beef fat and the fat that people get all over the place, you're gaining body weight. And guys are struggling with this and mistakenly blaming carbs and so forth. But as you gain body weight, every fat cell in your body is an estrogen factory.

49:06What I mean is your testosterone goes into a fat cell and estrogen comes out. You have enzymes called aromateus enzymes that take that testosterone from your bloodstream and the more body fat you have, the more they are reducing your testosterone because they're converting it to estradiol. Is this in part in your view why there's been a decline in testosterone in men over the last couple of decades? Without question, I can reduce your testosterone level within a matter of a couple of weeks just by putting you on a cheesy meaty diet. The more your body fat expands, the more your testosterone level is neutralized.

49:42And it gets worse because there's estrogen in the dairy itself that adds to the estrogen your body is now making in your body fat. An animal -based diet is just a recipe for hormone haywire. You know, I have to ask about the carnivore diet, which is, you know, I've had guests on this podcast that weren't health experts were even talking about healthful food or nutrition at all, but certain guests, in one in particular, who is on the carnivore diet, because, you know, I also think about Michaela Peterson, who I think is a wonderful person, and she's also on the carnivore diet. She had loads of health complications in her life to the point that I think she was virtually disabled at one point.

50:22In bed couldn't move lots of pain, lots of problems. And then she went on a carnivore -only diet, which meant that she eats pretty much only steak with salt and pepper, I believe. Don't want to get that wrong. And all of our health problems went away. And when you hear about those stories, you go, Jesus, that's incredibly compelling. I'm not saying that that is the correct diet at all, because I've sat here with enough nutritionists and health experts to know that there's a general consensus that you want as much plant, plants when you're played as you possibly can, with a little bit of protein, they seem to be pretty decided that a little bit of sort of chicken breast isn't a problem.

50:59But there is a school of thought, and there are a group of people that just eat me alone. And they seem to be doing, okay, is there any diet, is there any research that has been done on people that are on a carnivore diet that you're aware of? I don't know. I haven't really looked at the carnivore diet very well. It's a ludicrous diet. First of all, it's very fiber deficient. And somebody like that is going to spend hours in the bathroom struggling to go to the bathroom, because they're not getting any fiber. So that person goes to the drug store, and they'll get metamusill, which is a psyllium fiber, which is a seed fiber, because they don't want to eat the seeds, but they'll sell you the fiber to counteract it.

51:39You're getting a massive amount of cholesterol. Now, one thing you could say for it is that, of course, it says, well, I'm chucking out a bunch of just sugar, and I'm chucking out the cheese, and so forth, and I'm focusing on meat. Well, half of what you're doing is good. Is you're getting rid of some other things that were frankly not so good for you? The donuts and things aren't very good, but a meat -based diet is a romantic fantasy. When people think of themselves as hunter -gatherers, we are gathersers first and hunter -second. Our nature is not to be racing over the hilltop and capturing an antelope, and bringing it back to the applause of our families.

52:12That's a romantic notion that people like to pretend. And if you look at human cultures over the millennia, we are clearly designed for and have followed either an exclusively plant -based diet or a mostly plant -based diet. Now, that said, we'll take what we can get. When people don't have tremendous means, if a rabbit comes by and they can capture them in their snare and they'll eat them, they will. Having said that, I have to say I put this question to Richard Leakey some years ago. And I asked him, I said, you know, he's not. Oh, Richard Leakey was a wonderful paleoanthropologist. His father was Lewis Leakey.

52:56And Lewis Leakey is the one who launched Jane Goodall into Tanzania to study chimpanzees and Diane Fossey to study the gorillas. Lewis Leakey was a wonderful paleoanthropologist and his son, Richard, worked for many, many years in Kenya and died recently. But I put this question to him. I said, all the work that you've done, studying human behavior and human diets, aren't we naturally carnivores? And he looked at me and the I .D. said, understand, we are not carnivores and never have been carnivores. What allowed people to start to eat as if they're carnivores was the advent of the Stone Age. When we were able to make stone tools that became axes and arrowheads, left to your own devices without those tools, you can't chase down a deer or an antelope.

53:43You might occasionally get some roadkill or something like that, or not roadkill, but you know what I mean? You could scavenge from something left over by a lion or a hyena. And in fact, that's he believed that that is how meat eating began. Was that there was kill left over in a carcass that wasn't fully eaten by an actual carnivorous animal. And then once we got fire, which we didn't have before, once we got fire, now you're on to something. Now you can actually make meat at least over the short term safe to eat. I want to talk a lot more about hormones, but just to close off this section about weight loss that we were talking about.

54:18We were talking originally about the blueberries. There's another group of foods which you include in the power foods diet, one of which is the, and I'm going to get this word wrong, cruciferious vegetables. Yeah, cruciferous vegetables. Exactly what I said.

54:39Cuciferous. Or cauliflower or Brussels sprouts. When they're growing, they present this little flower that has kind of a little cross shape in it. So it's called cruciferous. Cuciferous. Yeah. And they're healthy foods. They are good in many ways. And they're good for weight loss specifically. Yeah, they are. They're one of the top foods that the Harvard researchers associated with weight loss. And frankly, it's kind of for a no -brainer reason. They're really high in fiber, a cup of broccoli has maybe five grams of fiber in it. But all of about 50 or 60 calories, like none. So it's very, very filling, very low in calories.

55:14So what's in that category then? Broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, those kinds of things, right? Yeah, arugula and lots more. Yes. They have a second benefit. Researches at Johns Hopkins have been studying them not for weight loss, but for cancer prevention. And they find that maybe not surprisingly, people who eat more of these have less of various forms of cancer. But it turns out that what they do is a surprise. If you eat a couple of servings of broccoli today and the same thing tomorrow, then by about the following day at that same time of day, your liver is making more of what are called phase two enzymes.

55:52The phase two enzymes are there to remove toxins from your body. So if you inhale, bus exhaust or some other toxins in your body, your liver is there to filter them out and get rid of them. And your liver is more powerful if the cruciferous vegetables were in your diet, because they cause it to make more of these detoxification enzymes. But there are lots of these foods. And some of them are not foods, but they're flavors like cinnamon. Cinnamon has a compound in it that scientists didn't know what to call it. They ended up calling it cinamaldehyde. Researchers are not always very creative with their naming.

56:27But cinnamon contains this thing called cinamaldehyde. And it's associated with weight loss, and it appears that it works by increasing metabolism. So what researchers have done, there are many of these studies, but there was a 2017 study, where researchers all they did in a randomized trial was give cinnamon or nothing. And this, the amount of cinnamon was about one teaspoon per day, which you could throw in water or whatever. And what they showed was about a seven or eight pound weight loss over a matter of several weeks. And so I'm not recommending that people just add cinnamon to bread that's slathered with butter, because you can undo the power.

57:06But the whole point of the power foods dietary approach is rather than thinking about all the things I can't eat. Let's bring in. We know that berries are good. So let's say I make a muffin, and instead of cooking it with butter, I'm going to cook it in a healthy way, and I'm going to have blueberries in it. So the foods got to be, they have to be good. So that you'll like them so that you'll serve them to your family, and then the weight loss just kicks in automatically. A teaspoon of cinnamon per day caused an average weight loss of about half a pound per week. That's from page 24 of your notebook, which was really surprising to me.

57:38The other thing that I found quite surprising was you talk about hot peppers. I love hot peppers. And you say that they're a great weight loss food. Who knew that that hot feeling that you experience afterwards? It's not just hot in your tongue. You can put a sensor on your forehead, and you will actually see the body is burning off calories as a result of eating the spicy food. So I'm not suggesting that people take a couple of olive banhios, and just eat that, what I am suggesting is that there are spices, there is cinnamon. There is the capsaicins, those are the hot in the hot peppers. There's also ginger.

58:14They all have these kinds of effects, where they readjust your body chemistry to be a calorie burner. So the foods taste great. You're not increasing your workout, but the weight comes off. And I don't want people to get modest about this. I'm working in a study right now. And the study has been going on for about 18 weeks now. One of the guys in the study has lost 60 pounds already. Now, I don't encourage people to lose weight that fast. And the person who's going to lose weight that fast is a person who's got a lot of weight to lose. But if you've got five or ten pounds that you want to lose, or maybe 30 or 40, that'd be very typical.

58:49Let's lose it. Let's not fool around. Let's put yourself in a body that you want to be in. It makes you feel good. It doesn't just help you to knock off that weight. It helps your arteries to open up. It helps your sexual function to return. It helps your mind to work today and to protect it for tomorrow. We can do those things. It's all a question of having the information and then putting it to work. Is that truth in the fact that spicy foods, specifically spicy peppers, hot peppers, reduce your appetite? They seem to. But I don't believe that that is the main effect. I think the main effect is on metabolism.

59:25They do seem to affect the appetite in a helpful way. But the main effect, I think, is the metabolic increase. We see, we can measure this where we bring people in. And you put on kind of a mask. You look like a pilot. And what I'm actually measuring is your carbon dioxide output. Right. And then you're oxygen intake. And that's proportional to your metabolism. It's proportional how fast you're burning calories. And almost anything you eat will cause you to increase your metabolism while you are in the post -ingestion period. But two things. There are certain foods that cause a bigger burn than others, though the ones that cause the biggest burn are the ones that are high in carbohydrate.

1:00:05But also peppers are for some reason in that category. And if a person has been on a low -fat vegan diet going into the test, they get an even bigger burn afterwards. And that's because their body is, we believe, is more insulin sensitive than it was before. So if I want to really increase your burn and help you to get the weight off, I would not only serve you these healthy foods at each meal, but I would take advantage of the fact that they are adjusting your physiology for the long term. What about ginger? Yeah, ginger is also, it's a relative of these other foods where you see that that kept say us and is the one that's that really killer spice.

1:00:45Ginger is kind of its first cousin, and it causes a similar effect. Weight loss effect. Yeah. And other things too. I mean, people use ginger for many, many things that people are using it for migraines and as an anti -inflammatory. There's a reason that these spices have been used since time immoral. And our goal now is to tackle this big issue of extra weight and just see if we can put it to work for that. Mangoes, papayas, legumes, green vegetables, orange vegetables are all some of the things included in the power foods diet. The most controversial of all though is eggs. Yeah. You know, you can come for everything else, but coming for eggs is particularly triggering.

1:01:26You were saying the book, eggs are not helpful for your waistline. Well, eggs have lots of issues. The first is that it's a cholesterol bomb. And the egg industry would like us to believe that they don't raise cholesterol. They clearly do. And we published a review on this where we looked at every study ever done on eggs. And they clearly raised cholesterol. And even the studies done by the egg industry do show this, although their interpretation is different. If the studies were funded by the egg industry, they'll say, well, it increased cholesterol, but not significantly or something like that.

1:02:02But they clearly do. And that's for a reason that an egg, when an egg is laid, that egg doesn't call out for room service. That chicken developing inside has to make the chicken's body from everything that was in the egg. And so it's laid with a ton of cholesterol because the cholesterol is an integral ingredient for the animal's body. If instead you boil it and eat it, you're getting a ton of cholesterol. So anyway, you can have eggs if you want them, but it's got a huge amount of cholesterol and you don't need the rest of it. You wrote book in 2020, which touches on a few of the subjects we've already touched on around the whole mainst within our body.

1:02:39I think hormones are a under -addressed, but very interesting and very important subject matter. For someone that doesn't really understand hormones and doesn't really know the relevance of them, what are hormones? And why does understanding or hormone balance matter at all? Horomones are the director that controls everything in your body. And the old way of thinking about food, the old fashioned way of thinking about food was, I ate a bad food, I had a disease. I ate high cholesterol foods, I got a heart attack, fair enough. But what we have now learned is that hormones control everything in your body and foods control your hormones.

1:03:19Horomones are directions, they're letters, they're messages. They go from one part of the body where they're made to another part of the body where they tell it what to do. And if we're just eating foods without any understanding of what that's doing to those hormones, then you're a victim of everything that's in your diet. I was sitting at my desk one day, a young woman called me up. She said, I can't get out of bed. And a lot of women have menstrual cramps. For maybe one in ten, it's off the scale. I can't go to work today, type cramps, and that was her situation. She said, I got a business meeting, I'm supposed to be the airport tomorrow morning, but I can't even move.

1:03:56Could I give her demoral? That was her question, it's an narcotic. And I said, I can give you heavy duty painkillers for a couple of days. But I was thinking, what's causing this? And I started to realize that there was a very good chance that she had too much estrogen in her blood. The estrogen every month thickens the lining of the uterus in a woman's body, in anticipation of pregnancy. And that endometrial lining, if there's too much estrogen, it thickens up too much. And then with a menstrual flow, it breaks apart. And it releases these malagested chemicals called prostaglandins that cause the cramping.

1:04:33So I started thinking, wait a minute. Let's reduce her estrogen. Let's change her hormones. How are we going to do that? As luck would have it, researchers at Tufts University in Boston had done a study. They brought in a group of women, 48 women. They put them on a metabolic war. They locked the door. They prepared all the food. They gave them diets for eight to ten weeks each. Either cutting fat, increasing fiber, or doing both at the same time. And what they found was amazing. The more you cut fat, the more estrogen levels came down to a more normal level. The more that you increased fiber, again, the more that estrogen came down.

1:05:11What they were thinking about was breast cancer. If I contain estradiol, I can reduce breast cancer risk. But I was thinking this woman has hormone haywire that's causing her cramps. So I suggested something. I don't think any doctor ever suggested before. I said, let me give you some painkillers for today, for tomorrow, so you can function. But would you like to try and experiment? Everything in your diet, I want to be from a plant for the next four weeks. And keep oils really low. What am I doing? I'm making sure she gets max fiber minimum fat. She called me back four weeks later. She said, Dr.

1:05:42Barnard, become my period today. Nothing. No symptoms whatsoever. This is miraculous. This hasn't happened to me ever. And she was cured as long as she stuck with it. But then she would kind of loose her diet and then the pain came running back. So we then did a randomized trial, which we published in the Journal of Stetrics and Gynecology with our partners at Georgetown University's Department of OBGYN. And it was randomized. It was the diet versus a supplement that was actually a placebo. And it works. And the diet reduced the duration of pain, the intensity of the pain, as well as PMS symptoms like bloating and water retention and moodiness, all these things got better.

1:06:25Now there's some variability for some women. It's just cure for others. The effect is more mild. But then we started to realize, wait a minute, how about menopause where women has hot flashes that are driving her crazy? You can change that whole scenario dramatically with food and things like thyroid function, or a person's hypoverhypertheryide, all of these things have food connections. We need more research, not everything is known, but there is more than enough known now that people should be able to put it to work for themselves. Speaking specifically there about, I want to talk about the other things you mentioned, thyroid, menopause, et cetera.

1:07:02But on the point of fertility, a lot of people are struggling with fertility for a variety of different reasons. I think we're all getting a little bit, you know, we're having kids later than ever before, both men and women, and fertility as a conversation is rising and also IVF is becoming more popular for obvious reasons. What impact does our bodies, specifically how large our bodies are, and how much fat we have on our bodies, have on our chances of being fertile? And are we seeing any sort of macro trends in human fertility? Yeah, we are. I mean, fertility is threatened, and it's, you see more infertility now than you've probably ever seen.

1:07:45Now, let me say that I'm not cheerleading for increasing human fertility. We've got more than enough of it, and I think people shouldn't feel pressured to jump into it if it's not their thing. However, for women who, and men, who want to have kids, there are certain things that are good to know about. And one is that excess body weight interferes. No big surprise. When women are carrying more body weight, it's a hormone producing organ. Body fat is not just jello in a bag. Body fat, each fat cell is metabolically active, creating estrogens that are causing your body to be in an abnormal state.

1:08:26The sweet spot for fertility is, if you measure your BMI, your body mass index, and if people don't have never done it, you just go online and you can look up BMI calculator you put in your height and your weight. And what it'll say is that a healthy BMI is between 18 and a half and 25. Over 25 is overweight. But within that huge broad fork, the sweet spot for fertility is around 19 or 20. So it's not just within the healthy range, but within the skinny side of the healthy range. Why does my body weight, my body mass impact how well my reproductive organs are working? Well, for men, we don't see quite so much that sweet spot.

1:09:16Although what we do see is that if a man acquires more body fat, what's going to happen is he's making more estrogen and losing his society. So the more weight you have, the more of these sort of estrogens and testosterone the body produces. The more body fat that you have, the more a man's body will take the testosterone and convert it to estrogen. So you're losing testosterone, gaining estrogen, which is the last thing that you want. But there's another part of the fertility issue, and that's dairy products. And researchers have been looking at this for a long period of time. There has been concern that dairy products interfere with fertility, both for men and for women.

1:09:50And Dan Kramer at Harvard University was really a proponent of this. Looking at different countries and countries where dairy was just not their thing, there are a lot of countries particularly in Asia, where dairy just isn't a thing. And there are others where it's everyday food. And you can see fertility tracking inversely with dairy consumption. There was something about dairy that was getting in the way. And what his theory was that it's not in this case the dairy fat. He believed and wrote that it might be the dairy sugar because the dairy sugar is lactose. And it's famous because a lot of people don't digest lactose very well.

1:10:29But the ones who don't digest it are the lucky ones because you're not going to consume it. The unlucky ones are people who can digest lactose and it breaks into two sugars. The lactose sugar has glucose and galactose attached together. And when you break apart that galactose we believe is toxic to the ovary. That's a theory but there's evidence to suggest that it's true. And our concern is not just that it interferes with fertility but that it's also associated with ovarian cancer. So stay tuned. Is there a link there also with fiber and fertility? If we have a low fiber diet, will our fertility drop?

1:11:07We would have to think so because all of these things sort of go in the same direction. A plant -based diet tends to get your hormones in a better value. What is fiber doing inside the body that's causing my hormones to change? Your liver every minute of every day even while you're asleep is filtering your blood. One of the things it filters out is anything that shouldn't be there, a toxin or even a medication. Your liver says, I'm not sure we want this in your blood, it'll try to remove it. And excess estrogens are also removed. When they're removed by the liver cells they're sent through into the intestinal tract.

1:11:43Your liver through the bile duct sends unwanted estrogens, excess estrogens down into the intestinal tract and they go out into the toilet. Except let's say I don't have much fiber in my diet. Let's say that I'm eating cheese and I'm eating a lot of meat, these don't have fiber at all. Then in that case the estrogens go down the intestinal tract and before they can be excreted they're reabsorbed through the intestinal wall back into the blood. Doctors call this entero hepatic circulation. And so that very same estrogen molecule that your liver spotted and it removed it and it sent it down into your intestinal tract.

1:12:23Thinking it was getting rid of it, it went through the intestinal wall back into the blood and ended up at the liver. Because it was not in a fiber. If you have fiber in your diet the fiber grabs those estrogen molecules and it carries them out with the waste. Okay so this is my conclusion here just to make sure perfectly clear. If I have a lot of excess fat on my body that means that I'm going to be producing more, if I'm a woman I'm going to be producing a lot of more estrogen. Yes. Because the fat cells produce estrogen. So there's more estrogen being produced and if I don't have the fiber that estrogen is going to go into my liver and then it's going to be reabsorbed back into my blood stream and stay there increasing my estrogen levels to a point where I'm struggling with fertility.

1:12:59But if I do have a lot of fiber, the fiber will grab that excess estrogen and it will take it out into the toilets. Exactly. And you want hormones, you want to be in balance. Not too little, not too much. Hormones will kill you. Thyroid hormone. All of these things can ultimately be fatal if they're in too high an amount or too low of an amount. What's the thyroid? The thyroid is this little clark Kent at the base of your neck. Yeah. You can barely feel that it's there. But the thyroid gland makes thyroid hormone which gives you energy. And if it's not working, you know it. You get out of bed in the morning, you look in the mirror and you see it.

1:13:38I just don't look right. My energy's not good. There's something wrong with my hair. My skin doesn't feel right. And a lot of people are low in thyroid. I've heard that phrase before a few times. Does that just mean that the thyroid's not producing enough thyroid hormone? Exactly. It's not making enough and there are two reasons for it. The first reason is that you can't make one molecule of thyroid hormone if you don't have iodine in your diet. And iodine is an element that's in the earth, that's in seaweeds, it's in a number of things like that. But you may not be consuming it. Now, luckily there is iodide added to salt.

1:14:16So your average person in most countries gets iodine from that source. And people who live in Japan and countries where they see vegetables a lot get huge amounts of iodine. But if you're low in iodine, you can't make thyroid hormone. The bigger reason though, here in the US, is antibodies that your body makes antibodies to kill bacteria or to kill viruses. And your white blood cells make these antibodies, which are protein torpedoes, that find that virus and knock it out. But for some reason, your white blood cells will make antibodies that attack you. And they attack your thyroid gland. And they stop it from working.

1:15:00And autoimmune conditions are, there are many of them, rheumatoid arthritis. Is antibodies are attacking the lining of your joints? And what we believe is happening is that something entered your body and triggered that antibody release. And that something could be a dietary protein, like dairy proteins or meat. Now, no one has ever done a study to this point to see if a plant -based diet could reverse hypothyroidism. But we have evidence that they should. Because first of all, in the Adventist Health Study 2, they brought in 60 ,000, 70 ,000 people. And they showed that the people with the most hypothyroidism, the people in whom it was most common, were the big dairy consumers.

1:15:48In fact, vegetarians who were eating lots and lots of milk and cheese, the dairy protein, we believe, is the trigger for this. The people who had the least hypothyroidism were the vegans. When it came to hyperthyroidism, the same thing happens, but the physiology is a little different. Your antibodies are now attacking the turn -off switch. So the thyroid can't turn off. You can't regulate it anymore. And you're cranking out too much thyroid hormone. They are the people who have the most risk are the meat eaters. Omnivores, people eating a lot of meat, a lot of dairy. Again, the vegans are the lowest in both.

1:16:21And we do see individual cases, anecdotal cases, of people who have changed their diets and their thyroid is improved. But what we need is a randomized trial. Yeah, and I think that's the important point, isn't it? Because I always think when I've heard people talking about the sort of meat eating diet versus the vegan diet, my brain goes, well, you know, the fact that this isn't could be a massive stereotype, and it might be wrong. So just to caveat that. But I tend to think that people that eat vegan diet generally make better health choices outside of their diet. They tend to have more exercise.

1:16:53They tend to just be more conscious. They tend to probably smoke less. They probably drink less alcohol versus someone on the typical American diet who's having McDonald's drinking, having alcohol, lots of sugar, processed foods, etc. Probably exercising less. So in those sort of mass scale studies that aren't controlled and randomized, I go, it's hard to believe anything because I don't know the full pit show. We saw this particularly when we looked at intelligence testing in kids, the kids who are raised on plant -based diets have squirt much higher on intellectual testing. And I believe that in those kids, it's probably an artifact that they're raised by parents who are very well educated and are giving their kids every opportunity.

1:17:34And so they're using a plant -based diet for the kid because they think it's the best thing.

1:17:41However, the way the answer to this is to do a randomized trial because when you bring in people who are already a junk food diet and then you can randomly assign some people to a control group and others to a specific dietary intervention, then you're taking people who have been eating the same kind of diet but what you're changing is the foods that they're eating. And let me be clear. Getting away from animal products is always a good idea. However, when you pick and choose what's left, there's a big difference between a bowl of blueberries and a plate of chips. So it's always a good idea to go ahead with the animal products but we want to bring in the best of what's left.

1:18:24And if we choose the foods the right way, we can knock off that weight we've wanted to knock off and we can really reclaim our health in a good way. The other book of yours that I was reading was about the power foods for the brain. I recently had my brain scanned, found out lots of interesting things about why I'm the way that I am. And since then, the doctor that scanned my brain, Dr. Armin, he prescribed me a bunch of different things to help with my, I guess to regrow my brain in many respects because there's a couple of concerns or there's at least a trajectory which might not be great if I don't make some changes.

1:18:54The book he wrote discusses Alzheimer's a lot and general sort of things like memory, et cetera. Why did you write that book? What was the, what was the call there, the personal reason for doing that? Well, there were a number of things but I have to say my father died. And on the day that he died, his heart stopped beating. But the truth of the matter is that he died for all intents and purposes five, six, seven years earlier than that because he had dementia. And it started out, he was an intelligent person. He was a physician, very well read, but he started to have memory lapses and it got worse and worse and worse so that it was every day he had trouble with his memory.

1:19:40And then he couldn't control his emotions and ended up not being able to control anything in his life and had to be separated from my mother cared for 24, seven and he finally died. It's a horrible thing to have happened. And in 2003, the Chicago Health and Aging project published some amazing findings. What they did is they went around Chicago, they just round people and said, what did you eat for breakfast? And people would write down what they ate for breakfast, what they ate for lunch, what they for dinner, and then they just waited as time went on who retained their cognitive abilities. Over years or over years.

1:20:19Exactly. So you do structured tests where you look to see, can you recall words, can you draw a face or a clock and put things in the proper perspective and there are a number of other tests. And those people who stayed mentally clear tended to be the ones who tended to avoid saturated fat. And the specific number was about a two thirds of reduction in the risk of developing Alzheimer's disease in those individuals who were very low and saturated fat. What saturated fat? That's the solid fat that is in dairy number one, meat number two. That alone was amazing. In the journal neurology and other journals, these studies started coming out and we thought, let me make the clock go backward because I want to tell my father, my dad grew up in a cattle ranch.

1:21:09We ate like we were in the cattle industry all my life. You're getting this huge load of saturated fat going down your gut, affecting your heart, affecting your brain in ways that we only have recently come to appreciate. But the truth of the matter is it's not just that. There are five things you need to do to protect your brain. If you're not doing them, you're playing with fire. Number one, get away from the meat and the dairy products because they are pushing the saturated fat into your diet. And there are others too, like coconut oil and palm oil. They're marketed as healthy, but they are as bad as butter.

1:21:41Number two, there are metals in your diet. You're not aware that they're there, but iron, copper, these are things you need a tiny bit of. You don't need the overload that comes in liver and in steak. Aluminum is a metal that you don't need any of at all, but it's an added ingredient in all kinds of foods as well as in medications. Number three, you need to exercise. Lace up your sneakers. You are great with this. You are a role model. People should do what you do. Thank you. And researchers at the University of Illinois brought in 120 people, older folks who were not exercising and what they asked them to do was a 10 -minute walk, a brisk walk.

1:22:21Now, brisk means I'm breathing a little faster than I was before, but not so fast that I can't speak. And 10 minutes, three times a week. Then the next week, 15 minutes. Then the next week, 20 minutes. And when they got up to 40 minutes, three times a week, they stayed at that level. And what they showed is that the hippocampus, which had been, the seat of memory in the brain, which had been shrinking, started to reverse that process. And you could see a measurable reversal of that brain shrinkage. Number four, you have to stop. You can't exercise all the time. You can't read things all the time.

1:23:02You can't watch documentaries all the time, hoping to protect your brain. Your brain needs down time. And when the clock strikes 10, I don't care how good the podcast is that you are listening to, turn it off and go to sleep. Get up early the next day if you need to. The first... Even if it's this podcast, turn it off. Even this one, pick it up tomorrow morning and you're going to learn better. Because in the... I agree to disagree. You've said a lot of things that are controversial, but I think that might be the most controversial. All right. This one will allow you to watch it. Particularly if it's me talking.

1:23:30But in the first part of the night, your body is engaged in what's called slow wave sleep. That's where you're taking your apartment and organizing things. All the file folders and things that are all over Higley Piggley, when in the early part of the night, 1130, 12, 1 o 'clock in the morning, your body is filing away. Here's a new word. And it's putting it in a place where you can find it when you need it. Later on in the night, the brain does what's called REM sleep, rapid eye movement. You're dreaming. And now you're integrating physical skills, like playing the violin or tennis or anything physical and also emotions.

1:24:09So if you are not sleeping, what's happening? You're going to have crummy memory. Anybody can test this themselves. Just look at a time when you're asleep deprived. You discover your memory is shot after about three, four days and your emotional control is much worse. Get a good night's sleep. After a few days, you'll get right back together. So we've talked about avoiding saturated fat. You want to avoid the excess metals. You need to exercise. You need to stop and sleep. But there's a fifth thing. When somebody has any rapid change in mental status, you got to walk in the bathroom, open up the medicine cabinet and see what's new.

1:24:48Because we have seen so many medications that are causing brain effect we never expected. One of the most surprising was statins. We have seen hundreds and hundreds of cases of individuals. By now, it's thousands of individuals where you're having memory problems, sometimes severe from statin drugs. Don't get me wrong. Statins effectively lower cholesterol for some people that has a life saving effect. But that and many other medications are going to affect the memory in some ways that can be so severe that when we take that medication away and let your body reheal, you can pack your bags and get out of that nursing home and go back home.

1:25:26It's a really interesting example there. I think as you say that the there is life saving consequences to statins and also that is a side effect in some cases. But not all cases. Exactly. But 90 % of people on statins don't need them or wouldn't need them if they followed a healthy diet. The reason they have a high cholesterol is that they are eating products that cause their body to make more cholesterol and those are animal derived products. If I was able to look at your father's brain before he passed away, what I've been able to see the dementia. Yeah, you can. This is the terrible thing. Is that we do know that if you catch demanding processes early, reversal is possible.

1:26:15You see that not only with paper and pencil testing, their memory is getting better, but you can see it on the brain scan where the hippocampus is the reversal process is turning around. But there is a point where the brain cells themselves are dying. It's like a shriveled cauliflower. And there is going to there is a time where that memory is just not going to come back. And so we want to prevent it. We want to prevent it starting now. And Kaiser Permanente, researchers did a study. They brought in almost 10 ,000 people and they tracked their cholesterol levels and found that if you got a high cholesterol level, it's not just bad for your heart, it's bad for the brain.

1:26:53The cholesterol levels were taken when the people were about 40. So the point being that what you're doing now is affecting your heart. It's affecting your brain now. There's someone listening to this right now that is 21, 24, 26, 28. What's the message to them? The message to them is, uh, thickly being burrito. The message to them is, is pick the foods that are healthiest for you. Because it matter then. Does it matter? Because you know, a lot of them will think, what I'll worry about that later. I'll worry about, I'm 31, I'll worry about this stuff when I get to 50. I absolutely know what you're talking about.

1:27:32When I was that age, I smoked cigarettes. I smoked about a pack a day. Yes, it's true. I did. In fact, all the medical students did. We figured I'm under so much stress. You know, when I'm done with medical school, I'll quit at that point. Um, you know, nowadays medical students wouldn't do this. We, we smoked the cigarettes we bought in the hospital gift shop. That's the way. Yeah, our patients could smoke in bed. As long as there wasn't oxygen flowing. But anyway, let's face it, young people take any risk that they can. And, but, but what really got our attention was studies showing that if you look at the tragic cases where teenagers are killed in an accident or killed in wartime.

1:28:13And you look at autopsies. What you see is atherosclerosis that the heart of the arteries has already begun. And it's been working through their teens. By about age 18 or 19, many kids have already lost one of their lumbar arteries. That what this means is your, your heart gives off the aorta, the huge mainline that goes up. And then it does a uterine goes right down in front of your spine. And it gives blood to each vertebral segment. And the very first place where those atherosclerotic lesions form and pave off those little bifurcating arteries, the little side arteries that are going to help your lumbar spine.

1:28:52The very first place where atherosclerosis occurs in a big way is in this lumbar spine. So you'll see a guy, 18, 19, has completely lost the blood supply to one part of the lower back. Now there are collaterals. But eventually he's going to get lower back pain because the discs between the vertebrae, they don't get any blood supply at all. They get oxygen by diffusion from the vertebrae. And the more you cut off the blood supply, the weaker that disc gets. And it's like a pillow where the outer covering of the pillow degenerates and the stuffing comes out, pushes on a nerve and you got pain all the way on your leg.

1:29:30And you thought, well, that was because I was stressed and I was strained, I was in an accident. Yeah, those are all precipitating factors, but it was you were set up for it because your body cannot heal anymore. So you got no blood supply anymore. So clean diet can help protecting us those things. Well, what I've seen in your father's brain, if I look to your father's brain under a microscope, what I've seen like a plaque build up, is that what it's like? You would see several things. You would see plaque between the neurons, between the brain cells are what we call beta amyloid. And it's these proteins that the brain cells make.

1:30:02And it's still controversial what it's doing there, but most people believe it's part of the disease process. And there are malignant proteins called tau proteins that are in the neurons there, they're there. They've been known they've been there for a long period of time. But it's worse than that. The brain itself, I mean, at a hundred feet, you could see the difference. If you could look at that scan. A healthy brain stays big and vibrant. The Alzheimer's brain is visibly shrinking and deteriorating. And that person is not going to come back from that. You know, there's a big school of thought that doing a lot of sort of cross words and stuff like that helps the brain to kind of defend against that shrinking, that shriveling you're talking about.

1:30:45People, one of the things I was prescribed for my brain is to do a lot of paddle sports and like racket sports. What's your view on that? I think we need more research on all those areas, but I am inclined to think that the more we use it, though less we lose it. So if we use our brain and not just reading, thinking vocabulary things are good in Canada, researchers discovered, you know, some people speak English in Canada, some people speak French, some people speak both. Some people have three languages, or four languages. The more languages people speak, the more delayed is any kind of cognitive decline.

1:31:19So what we believe is that it may well be that using the neurons keeps them active, but we're not just using our brains to remember words and remember sentences and remember facts. You're using your brain every step you take on it when you're out running. Your brain has to anticipate where your foot is going to go, where the pavement is to keep you from falling down and you're not just running along. Your brain is automatically tracking where you're going. It's keeping you from falling over. It's regulating your balance. And that is a big job. It's not just muscles. Exercise involves a brain in a huge way.

1:31:54And that is great to feed your brain with physical exercise, with things that allow your vestibular system, you know, to work. That means anything that is involved with turning and movement, all that is great for the brain. I also read a new book that exercise in particular helps sort of clear out toxins that are associated with sort of cognitive decline and the decay of brain cells. To make it simple, if the more you're moving, the more your heart is pumping, it's doing that to get oxygen into your muscles. That's its job. But what is it doing in the process? It's sending the blood up to your brain and the blood is coming out of your brain carrying things away.

1:32:32So the more active we are, the better off we're going to be. And in that book, you say overall, they show that regular aerobic exercise trims the risk of dementia by about 30 % and cuts the risk of outside of his disease roughly by 50%. And I think the numbers are better than that to tell you honest truth. If you combine a healthy diet, which means getting away from the saturated fat, which is the dairy and the meat, and having the vitamin E rich foods, like some nuts and some seeds, which are healthy vitamin E rich foods, not pills. You get it from the foods themselves, avoid the metals, lace up your sneakers, and if you can get a good night's sleep, I would suggest that we could probably cut Alzheimer's risk by 80%.

1:33:12It needs to be proved. We need to prove it in research studies, but there is no reason to wait. You don't want to be in the control group that is doing nothing to see what happens to your brain. Participants in a Chicago study who got three to four vegetable servings per day slowed their rate of cognitive decline by 40 % compared to those who got only one serving of vegetable. And I guess that speaks to the importance of vitamin E, which is in all of those vegetables, right? There's vitamin E in those, but there's a bunch more of the vegetables as well. There's fiber and there's many other vegetables, B vitamins as well.

1:33:43And I got to say to be in the high vegetable group in the United States, even having one or two vegetables per day is pretty great, except for unfortunately the only vegetable a lot of Americans eat is French fries or potato chips or something like that. So bring in the vegetables in a big way. Coffee? Who knows? People have wanted to say coffee is a healthy thing. And in fact, there have been studies that show that people who drink more coffee are at less risk of Alzheimer's disease. Now, the problem is it had to be a lot of coffee. It had to be five cups a day or even more. And there are other studies that do counteract that.

1:34:20I'm inclined to think that maybe the biggest consideration is what goes into your coffee. So if what's going into your coffee is some cream right a whole bunch of sugar, that's really not so healthy for you. Maybe that's not the best choice. And lastly, you said the word metals. When you say metals, what do you mean? Like this cup here is metal. What would you mean by metals? Keeping metals out of my body? There are three metals we're concerned about. Iron, copper and aluminum. There may be others too, but those are the biggies. Iron is something that your body needs. Your body makes hemoglobin with iron.

1:34:52And you need that to carry oxygen. That's what makes your blood red. However, your body only needs a certain amount. And if you get too much, it can damage the heart and can damage the brain. It's easy to get too much. Our bodies are built for plant foods. And plant foods have what's called non -heam iron. And the beauty of this form of iron is if you're already iron overloaded, your body says, I got it. Let me absorb less iron now. If you're low in iron, your body can take that non -heam iron and absorb more. It's the form your body can regulate. But if like me, you grow up in North Dakota and you're eating a lot of beef, there's a lot of iron in it.

1:35:32And your body cannot regulate the heam iron. It just comes into your system and you end up iron overloaded. So iron is the first one. And the solution is avoid animal products. Or if you want to be clever, you can go donate blood. And you can give your iron to somebody else. It works. Copper, copper pipes. If you have copper pipes in your house, and all night long, the water sits in them, and then you fill your coffee maker in the morning, you're getting a big load of copper. The aluminum is quite a story though. In England, researchers looked at different counties where there was more aluminum in the drinking water.

1:36:09It's not in the well and it's not in the river. It's used in the purification process. The aluminum compounds are added to clear the water. You have to then carefully extract them. And if you don't extract it, you get aluminum out of your tap. And the counties with the most aluminum in their drinking water had 50 % higher risk of Alzheimer's. So researchers have looked at that. And there are plenty of neurologists who think it's just a fluke, except that you do see it with some frequency. The reason we think it's not a fluke is that aluminum is a neurotoxin. And we learned that from industrial accidents where aluminum compounds are suddenly inhaled by everybody.

1:36:46It's without question, a neurotoxin. And secondly, there is zero use for aluminum in human physiology. You don't need it. So if you're taking an antacid that's made with aluminum, or you're putting on a deodorant that's got aluminum as one of the antiperspirant ingredients in it, some of them have that. A lot of them have that. It goes through the skin and you're getting this neurotoxin, which is in your body. So while the research is continuing, my advice is steer clear of the aluminum completely and be careful about the iron and copper. You put this together. Your body can be as healthy as nature wanted it to be.

1:37:21I've started thinking a lot about the products that I have around my house. I just for many, many years, just bought whatever was in the supermarket that I thought had a nice label or I was a victim of marketing. So whatever marketed the product best to me, I just buy. And then in the last six months, I'm now scanning the things that I'm buying from supermarkets and shops and the things by my bathroom sink to just try and make sure that they are clean as clean as possible from some of these toxic chemicals. Do you do that? Absolutely. And everything you're reading, if I've got the opportunity to choose organic or non -organic vegetables, even if the organic takes cost more, if you do I want one with chemicals or without, frankly, it's a no brainer.

1:38:06The app I use just for any bit, I'm not affiliated with the app at all, but just I know people are going to be sat there thinking how are you scanning your stuff. The app I use to scan my products is an app called Think Dirty, which is has a big database of their ingredients. So I'd recommend that. Neil, what is your closing message? If someone's got this far into the conversation, they've heard everything you've said. And you know, they're thinking, God, I do love my, I do love my food. I love my animal proteins. I love chicken. I love steak. I'm probably not going to quit chicken or steak because it's just, you know, it's one of my favorite foods.

1:38:43It's convenient. What's your closing message to those people? My message for everybody is let's see what your body can do. Let's see how foods work. Let's not think about the long run. Let's think about the short run. If a person comes in, they've got diabetes. My job with them is to see, can I cure you? So if a person's well, I don't really want to make big changes. I'm going to say, let's make some huge changes right now because if we can get cured of this in the next six or eight or 10 weeks, that's good to know. So let's say you're not in that situation, but you've got weight you'd like to lose.

1:39:13You'd like to feel better. Let's make some big changes now. Let's do a little bit of boot camp. Let's see the foods that love you back. Let's put those power foods in your diet and see what they'll do for you. And then after you've had a chance to experience it, then it's up to you. You use it as much or as little as you want to. And for most people, they just view the world differently ever after. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question that has been left for you is, what would you whisper in the ear of your younger self?

1:39:52Well, I would tell my younger self, the frankly the same thing that I would tell my older self, which is to be grateful for the things that we have and that we have learned. And I would I would share that with you. You could do anything that you want to. You can have any kind of guest on your show that you want to. But what you're doing is you're taking information. You're asking terrific questions and talking about important things in a way that is going to get people talking and thinking and trying new things and learning things and maybe disagreeing or agreeing or whatever. But you're starting a discussion that goes around the dinner table and it affects the next generation to you will never know how many lives you say.

1:40:31But I mean this in all sincerity, you're changing people's lives by changing what they know and what they're trying out and there are people who are going to be alive because of you. And I'm grateful to be able to play a part in that kind of work. But I'm also grateful to you for using your podium that you have to share that with other people. Thank you, Neil. And that's a really incredible compliance that it's absolutely the truth. When you can share information with people that changes their lives, you'll never see the effects and they won't thank you. So that's my job. Thank you. I appreciate that.

1:41:09And I extend that point of gratitude to our entire team here. There's almost 30 of us that are behind the scenes. I get a lot of the credit in the street because they people see my face. But for the other 30 people that sit behind the production and work very hard to find people like you to have these conversations with. They deserve all the credit as well. And I have to say, you know, I have lots of people on this podcast that talk about health, diet, nutrition, all those things. The reason I do it is because I'm interested in it. And I want to get better and better and better. And I've seen an improvement in my diet, in my gut problems have gone away over the last three years.

1:41:41Lots of people come on the show. They have lots of different ideas about eating meat, about not eating meat, about eating this fruit, that other what I gain from it. And I probably should say this. Although the information can sometimes be conflicting, right, which I think information should be conflicting. I think that results in progress. I think it's two ideas clashing with each other. That results in a new way of doing things or a new conclusion or a new solution. But for me, what I do, and this is what I advise all my listeners to do when they hear these conversations, is to listen, is to reserve judgment, is to do your own research.

1:42:16And finally, it is to not worry about perfection. But it is to pick and mix things that get you closer and that induced progress. And that's what I do when I sit and listen to these experts. There will be things you say today that I'll be honest with you. I can't see myself quitting chicken breast. However, there are many things you've said about blueberries, about metals in my diet, about exercise, about legumes, and about vegetables, and about these power foods that you talk about in your book. I now have more motivation to bring into my life. And that's honestly, I never tell anybody what to do with their life.

1:42:56But that's honestly just how I consume this information, especially when it's like varied and conflicting. I find the overlaps and having spoken to, let's just say I spoke to 10 health experts or authors or scientists. I find where fit the information overlaps. And I take on that information into my life. And that is how I proceed with necessary caution. Neil, thank you. Thank you for being one of those people that is pushing conversation forward by presenting new ideas in new ways and doing it in such a compelling, accessible story driven way. Because I think that makes the information land in a way that it should.

1:43:34And thank you again for all the lives that you'll save because of the messages and the way that you brought forward the conversation around nutrition. It's an incredibly important work. And I throw back the compliment you gave me. I'm sure you've saved many thousands and thousands and thousands of lives just by doing what you do. So thank you on behalf of all those people as well. Thank you. Do you need a podcast to listen to next? We've discovered that people who liked this episode also tend to absolutely love another recent episode we've done. So I've linked that episode in the description below.

1:44:05I know you'll enjoy it.