Thierry Henry (EXCLUSIVE): "I Cried Every Single Day", Dealing With Depression, My Childhood Trauma & Fighting For My Dad's Love!

29:58You know, my kids save me. They're all saving me every day. Every day I see something new that teaching me to be a dad, a better dad, not a better dad and my dad. This is the one I'm saying. Myself, a better dad. And the opening doors that I didn't know how to deal with. You know, it's very... Sometimes when you like, I can see sometimes when they look at me, how much they love me and how much like they like all that. But if they only knew, actually, I'll look at them the same way. You know, thanks for being here because it would have been tough. You know, as an athlete, as long as you stay within that frame, you can feed whatever you need to feed to satisfy that little, that little thing that you have.

31:00Your ego, your... your... your... avoiding your problems. Because you prefer to be the athlete than the human being. Because then the athlete, it's easier. You know what to do. What I knew what to do. Even if it was painful, whatever, I knew what to do. This is why when you go there alone, so it's easy for you to walk when you have your career. But I think you remember that. As an athlete, and I say it, and I will maintain it, you die when you stop. The athlete, a competitor, dies. I can never play again in the frame. I can never play for France anymore. I don't care what people say. You can play football, not at level, not competing the way I used to compete.

31:52And that part of me died. So people don't teach you to die. So now, you are going to face all your problems. Because you could put them on the side, because you're playing games. Because you have other things that will cover that. But once everything stops, we're not used to be at home. We're not used to deal with a normal life. Since I'm 13, I've never had a normal life. Understand me well, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying to go back like to the real world, it's a shock to the system. Because you're actually technically not equipped to live in that world. It's an interesting comparison to make, but when you hear people talk in these terms, you think of someone that had been incarcerated in jail, or you think of someone that went off to maybe the military, and then returned after war, to a normal life and couldn't sort of acclimatize to what it meant to just sit in silence alone.

32:55In many respects, although those examples are quite extreme in many cases, your experience of being a football player since sort of five years old, being drafted into this Academy of 13 years old, and then spending the rest of your career in institutions where it was high performance institutions, where as you say, you were distracted from having to think about being a human, and your identity was an athlete. Your expectations were based on being an athlete. Your sense of validation came from being an athlete. And suddenly, boom, it's over. Look, actors often go into depression or problem when they go into a character for a movie.

33:44Because at one point they don't know who they are anymore. They become that character. So when you put that cape as a player for more than 20 years, and you have to be what you have to be for people, because you might transcend them, because of what you transmit, the feeling that you have of your club and with the fans, that almost like, yeah, I belong when I had to fit in for a very long time. Now I belong. When that goes, can't wear that cape anymore. And when you wear that cape, you feel different responsibilities, performing, losing, winning, doesn't matter, but you know the next day what you need to do in order to compete, put the cape on, and you leave that cape.

34:39So you're naked. Oh, wait, I'm going to miss it. Now they see my weakness. They see my things. You see your weakness. You feel it. It's different. It's like, whatever it is for you, when you put your cape, you're like, okay, you know, put it down, you're like, oh, I don't like that so much. So how do you deal with it? I mean, when I say you die, obviously it's strong. It's something new. What's happening in the world at the minute? It's maybe it is strong to say, but that part of me died. Never come back. That can never come back. The singer can sing.

35:21You cannot, you cannot have your concert. I can't. I can't complain anymore. I have to deal with that.

35:34And that... It's tough to deal with. It's tough to deal with, because that's your medicine. I can't take it any more. So there's another life, there is obviously it's not the end, but you need to learn now to be at home. To connect with your missus, to connect with your kids, because the way of connecting before was very minimal when you think about it. You're never at home. So now you arrive at home when you stop your career, you're like a guest. But that's what you do, you guys, when I used to play. You know, it's not, understand me well. I'm not complaining, I'm not saying, you know, people have, you know, I understand, I'm just trying to explain what I went through, what I'm going through.

36:28Arson became, it seems from reading your story, a bit of a substitute, farther few at one point. When you moved to Esmonico after Cleffan, 10? Yeah. So you were 17 years old when you moved there. Arson's the manager at Monaco at the time. Does he, because at this relationship you have with Arson, it, you know, at that time you go off to Monaco, I think there's a little bit of a sort of a disconnect from your father in some way. Is that a good one? Yeah. Well, the thing is, I'll do you tell your dad that he needs to step aside, you know, for me to have my career is my life. When he did everything for you at that moment, as a dad, by the way, but how, how do you make him understand and now it needs to fly, I need to fly along.

37:21Is that a conversation? Is it, no, I wasn't a conversation. No, I wasn't that, that, that, that never happened. It just, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm any more understand. You made him understand. Yeah. The look, the, the, the, the, you know, making, you know, making sure that he was understanding that he couldn't come anymore, but you know, if he's asking me for some tickets, I wasn't maybe sending them at times or stuff like that, you know, because talking or stuff. So you indirectly, yeah, you do, you do, you do. No, it's not, it's not rejecting, but it was, it was too much at one point. Well, it was too much.

38:10But the pressure of, of, of pleasing him, the constant, it was always there, which was good, not yet me wrong. But it's like for everybody, you're not going to be always on top of your kids in whatever the, because at the end of the day, you, you, you, you don't help them. I needed to make mistakes by myself. Have you got specific memories of when you thought you played well, but he just, oh, so many. I mean, it's, that one also is very famous in France. People still talk to me about it. They're still, when they see me in the street, they, they said the name of the tin and I played against it.

38:45Yeah, it's a very famous one. It's true story. We played a game. I was 15 already. Then you can see if someone is kind of good or not good. We want to get him six years, I scored six goals. And I know we're back, you know, so I step, I step out of the, of the game. And I knew I'm sure you the same. If I'm, if I was like this, I swear, believe, you believe me or you don't believe me, the aura of my dad, I knew even without looking at him, if, if, if the man was up, you're not. So if you're turned around, you feel it, even before, like it was that powerful, you could just feel his energy. And he wasn't happy.

39:32I, I, I turn and I saw it. I could, I can tell you any posture. And I knew if, if he was up here, you know, that he or, or, or whatever. So we're having a car, you know, silence. So I'm like, shall I talk? Shall I not talk? Okay. Right. You know. So yeah, we, it's exactly how we were.

40:09So he was like, you happy? So I'm like, what shall I answer?

40:21Yeah. But you shouldn't because you missed that thing. You missed that thing. You missed that control. You missed that cross. You missed that. You missed that. Then I arrived at my mom's house. I always remember. He dropped me at my mom's house. I go up and I'm walking like this. And I was like, did you lose? I said, no, we want six years. And I scored the six goals. And then she looked at me going in. I was often like that. Why, why was he doing that in your view? I don't know. Like I always say, you know, I tried to, came to, you know, to come to terms with it. But you need to understand something.

41:00I, my dad never read. I never traveled. My dad knows only one way, his way and what is being told. And if I compare what I have been brought up to, how is being brought up? There's a world. So for him, you already, you know, put that down. So you can't, you can't be upset with someone that tries to do his best and educate you with his tools. I don't have the same tools. My box of tools has more tools. And my kids would have more tools than me. So you can't, you can't, you know, you can't be upset with that one. You have to come to terms with how it was. That's how it was. Now, you need to accept it.

41:58But digesting it is when it becomes tricky, because you can always accept everything. But the impact that he has on you after is on you to deal with that. The values he gave you and you learn growing up up until you, you know, you ultimately move on to, you know, Juventus and Arsenal, the values that made you successful in hindsight when you look back. What are those values that are transferable to any industry or any discipline that put you where you are? Because listen, you know, people, people can be born with great genetics. They can be born with whatever. But that isn't enough. It's been proven time and time again that that isn't enough to reach the highest of the highs and have a statue of yourself, you know, over there in London.

42:46There's going to be a mindset, a character, values underneath there that creates that legend. There are so many things, but that I understood and there's so, you know, you talk about also and you, a lot of guys that I came across in my career helped me develop something that was in me. I do believe that we always have, we all have something in. Now, are we going to develop it? It's a different ballgame. As you know, my upbringing was rough, strict. It can go both ways. It can make you or break you. I decided it was going to make me. But I had to put my diet on the side, at one point, to put everybody on the side, at one point.

43:38And concentrate to the path. Now we're talking about, it's a different topic now. We're going to talk about what I became and the in bracket, the animal I became when I was a player. That's a different ballgame. That comes with seeing Denis Berkamp every morning working hard. That comes with seeing all those players at one stuff working hard. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, how am I going to move those guys? If you add what might that give me, never be satisfied. Do more. It's always what you didn't do well. You know, obviously at a certain attribute, I was fast. That's the only attribute I had when I was young.

44:19I was fast. You have guys that are technical or see the game or whatever. Awareness or whatever. I was just fast. So I had to work really hard. And I know people would say, oh my god, okay, that cliché sentence. No, to work really hard every day. My left foot was poor. I had to forget about it. And he still, I still didn't manage to be better during my career. I got a tiny bit better. But I worked for a kick. I couldn't take a freaky kick. Anything, you know, repetition is key. Repedition always creates habit. You know, so I knew I knew I wasn't as gifted as so many players. Although I did everything that you're supposed to do.

45:05I went to Clafontein, I played on the 15th, France on the 16th and 17th and 18th and 19th, on the 21st. So people when they see my path, they always go like, yeah, I mean, I was always going to be, no, not true. I always had to battle. But when you knew that the other thing that I had to do was to please my dad, the rest was nothing for me. In bracket. No disrespecting anything that happened in my career. But that was so easy compared to what I had to do, you know, to please the old man. And my young self is still waiting for that approval. Still, yeah, I'm trying to connect with the little man.

45:49He said, you know, I'm going to a different discussion now, but I'm still trying, I'm trying to connect with the little man. But you go back, I go back to sorry to what you asked me. What did it teach me? It's obviously to never give up, do more. But there is something that was missing that I understood late. And I think for me, the best leader you can be, the leader or the greatest leader, do have that. And I was missing that for a very long time, which in sport, because you have to play a game and you have to not hear to, you know, how you have a problem or less have a talk about it. You know, when you play, you play stuff during a season, stuff, during a game, stuff, but vulnerability and empathy was missing.

46:42Those are the two greatest points of the leader for me. When you show vulnerability and obviously you show empathy, you can go places. You can go places because if your group knows that you're like them and they can relate, although you might be hard as you know what, they will follow you. But in football, because of our days, because it is taboo sometimes to be vulnerable, it is taboo to show emotion, you know, the emotion, that emotion, the crying, the days, that especially in my time, in addressing them, you couldn't say anything. It's a bit more accepted now, if you say I'm not aware, mentally, and thank God for that, by the way.

47:30But all the above that you can imagine, for me, it was always trying to be the best version that I can be every day. Did you think you were going to be the player you become? No.

47:46I just wanted to please my dad. How am I going to think that if I swore that I'm going to have a statue in front of the Emirates? I mean, how? Even when you were playing Arsenal and you were winning them Golden Boots and you were winning everything and the Invinciples and all of that, you were still trying to please your dad. In a way, yeah, I couldn't say it. That constant look of, to not name a movie, the pursuit of happiness or the pursuit of pleasing people. I love that movie. So, I'm, yeah, but that was my, that's, it's kind of weird when I always say when your medicine is your poison, because you always chase that.

48:36Were you happy? I don't know. I never asked myself that question. I couldn't care less. I just couldn't care less. Like, you saw it. I mean, you saw me play. So, I couldn't care less. You saw me. My face was always hard. It was always, you know, I could smile. It's funny. I always say, and this is why I always said to people. I need to have a good because I never used to celebrate my goals. Always just to stand in a stoic manner, well, always proud or rage. But people never used to see when I used to give an assist. I always use a smile. Pleasing. Watch assist smile. Goal rage. Sweet, huh? But pleasing again.

49:28Giving was always always always smiling. You see him even now a smile. But goal, no, goal was just like, that's what you had to do, man. Because you're making the play that you've given the goal happier, guys. You're giving them. It's interesting because people who grew up in environments where they had a parent or parents that they were trying to please often tend to exhibit two traits. One of them is being an empath. The term empath is like being so emotionally sensitive to how everyone's feeling in every room all the time, because that started at its young age with, you know, constant. And then the second is people pleasing.

50:02And they always say people please start with trying to please one or more of their parents. And it's funny, there's a cliche about comedians, right? Comedians, whenever I sit with a comedian, the question is always, which one of your parents was depressed? Which one of the parents were you trying to put a smile on their face? And this is cliche that comedians are depressed. Whereas when I've interviewed comedians, they say, no, no, no, no, no. It's my dad that was depressed. And at four, I was trying to make him smile. And it's so interesting that in your case as well, it was a very similar thing.

50:33This question though, like all these great achievements, you know, won the World Cup, you know, the invincible team, all these trophies, the peak of your powers, and you can't tell me whether you were happy or not. No, because for me, I did what I had to do. When you went home, though, when you went home after a great game, you get home. If I'm a fly on the wall in that room, do I see a man that's happy? Yes, for a little while. And then you, because that's how the game is, you know, I was talking about, I was talking about Gare Klichy, which is my assistant, and I, you know, played at Man City and Arsenal with me.

51:21J .O .D. we were in camp with the national team, obviously being my assistant. So to me, Terry, do you remember what you did one day? I'm like, I don't know, man. So we won the league. So he won the league with us when we stayed invincible.

51:38He said to me, okay, where was the party tonight? We're going and everything. So I'm going to the no party tonight. He said, yeah, but everybody's going. I said, yeah, but I'm not everybody. He said, why? He said, we have the euro going home. Everyone went to the party. I didn't. So understand for me was like, hey, I have the euro. Just the next thing. Yeah. So you you 10 and 1 point not to enjoy it while you're playing. That was my way. Was the right way or not? I don't know, but it was mine. So Gale was like, you were crazy. I said, I don't know if I was crazy, but that's how I was. For me, I have the euro.

52:26I need to concentrate for the euro. So I didn't go. Wish some time can be seen as a guy that's keeping himself to himself or doesn't want to be knowing in the team. Well, I surely did when I was on the field. For me, that's the only thing that matters. Are you going to cover me? We don't have to be, we don't have to be friends after that. It goes back to what you were taught to value there. You went to value party celebration, happiness. You were taught to value performance on the pitch. You have to perform. And so I said to you, when you put that cape, that's what is asked of you.

53:03Then when I arrived towards the end of my career, I realized something I was big and something I was missing. It's always thought that titles mattered. And yes, they do. But always thought that that's the only thing that mattered. Well, it's not true. It's not true. It's all you, it's all you, as I mentioned before, is all you transcend. And what you can transmit. And also are you inspire people that matters. And I never thought about it when I was playing again because I didn't have those tools. When you went off to Barcelona, an adjustment period took place. And you were married at the time and then you went through a divorce.

53:52This question of love comes back into the picture. If you'd grown up in that household where your parents got divorced when you were seven or eight years old, you know, you look back who taught you and then you were in Academy of 13. So you get married, marriage falls apart when you're in Barcelona. Who taught you how to be in a relationship? No body. What's a love of a woman? No body. You deal with it. You learn, you fail.

54:26Again, you know, you mentioned it to a rather bosser or not. I arrived in India. I was divorcing, adapting to a new life, new language, new team, new way of playing. People don't care. I don't ask people to care by the way because that's how it is. But it's not easy. It was tough. It was tough. Don't see you don't see. You know, I couldn't see my daughter for a while. You know, and people expect you to perform. So what do you do? You put the cap on. Put the cap on because that's the only way. So, okay, you put the cap on. You're like, okay, you do feel that everything goes away. It's a feeling though.

55:06It's an impression. It's a lie. But when I put that cap on, I feel like you can't see that I'm hurt. I feel like you can't see it because now people see the player. So in a weird way, you want people to know, and you want people to know how you feel that you're not equipped right now to perform. And in the same time, you put it on because you don't want them to know. You know what I mean? It's kind of way. You're like, you know what? Let me put the cap on and then they will attack the player. You won't help, but you don't want to ask for help. You do, but you don't. It's kind of weird. You want someone to go like, oh, this is what's happening to him and you're like, thank you.

55:55But you don't want to say it. What were the symptoms? You said the word hurt. If I, again, if I was a fly on the wall in that room in Barcelona when you were alone, what was going on in your head? Well, just imagine I like to please people. And everything everywhere was a no -no. I wasn't playing well. You're divorcing. So you, I'm feeling I'm letting my daughter down. I'm missing the fans down. I'm letting my friends down. I self -doubt everybody down. Just imagine now I am on wanting to please people. And it wasn't happening. So tough. Cap on, cap off. Tough. But the easiest way to deal with it was to put the cap on.

56:38When the capes not on, what are your thoughts saying to you at that time? Well, you kind of as a human being like, did I make the right choice? You know, and I said it, I think, at a particular moment, football wasn't really my priority. If the cap was on, obviously, but even before, when the cap was on, was still football. You need to rest. You need to do this. You need to do that. But the day it wasn't because it's actually technically, and this is not me having a good at my dad or the relationship or anything. But I was like, you know, when you swear that if you get married, you never get divorced because, you know, and you know, very little about life, obviously.

57:25And I was like, I know, this is exactly what happened to me. Or what's happening to me? What are you doing? You're repeating. Yeah, to yourself, like, you know, you kind of like, what are you doing? This is why I said, I said so many times, and I will say it again, my biggest fear is not to be a good dad. And so I was go, in my mind, that doesn't mean it's not because you're going to divorce, you're going to be a bad dad. But in my mind, I'm letting people down. I'm a bad dad. I'm a bad whatever. You know what I mean? In my way of thinking, I'm lying. And that's my biggest fear. Still now is to, to, to, to, you know, because I'm learning to be a dad, like everybody, by the way, because, you know, that's, that's, but, you know, some doors that you don't have, some emotions that you don't have, I wasn't often at home, and still not often at home.

58:27When did you, what was the moment when you realized that your playing career was behind you? You know, you obviously went off to America for a while, and then it transferred to New York Red Bulls, and then you retired at sort of 37 years old. But was there a moment where you realized a day where you thought, you know what? I'm, I'm not going to be on the pitch as a professional player anymore. Yeah, there was a day, and you might love, but my daughter was at home in New York. I suffered of Achilles' problem for more than 10 years. Both sides. I was, I was in pain every morning, really. Pain, pain was never going away all day.

59:14Both sides. Both of my Achilles. Just, I just, sometimes, I felt a bit better, sometimes, no, but every morning, I was in pain after a night, for 10 years. So I'm at home with my daughter, and she comes, she comes close to me, and she touches me, and she goes, you eat, and she ran. I wanted to run, I couldn't.

59:44I looked at her, I said, hey, you won. I couldn't chase her, and I stopped. I wonder, what are you doing? Like, I couldn't, I just couldn't. I'm not even joking, Steven. I, I, she ran, and I just couldn't move. What are you doing? That's when I knew I couldn't do, and don't pain anymore. Because this is why it is, people forget about anything that you can think of. You need to love pain to be an athlete. And I know, no pain, no disease, whatever, all the, you know, the... Correct. Oh, my, no, this is real. You need to love pain. However, mentally, physically, love it. You need to love it. If not, stay where you are.

1:00:34And then you retire eventually at 37 years old from professional football. What happens then? I, I, I was in a way happy. I'll tell you why, because I stopped. Some people stopped because of injuries, some people stopped because of different stuff. I stopped. It wasn't my terms. I stopped. You know, it's better than people who are like, Terry, you still can play. Oh, I knew I could still play. But I stopped. So, I didn't have a problem with stopping. Like you knew, you know, the fear that day, I didn't have a problem with that. But I didn't know what's going to come after. You prepare yourself, you pass your badges, you, you know, you prepare yourself mentally, or, and whatnot.

1:01:25But then, how do you feel the competitor? How do you feel the guy I love to please? When you can do it or not every three days? How? When did you know that you were struggling? One I was aware, because the Cape was always my thing, to make sure that when I felt the struggle coming, Cape.

1:02:04So, I knew it before, but I was lying to myself, or I was going to make sure that that feeling wasn't going to go too far. So, I put the Cape on. But then, when you're not a player anymore, you can't put that Cape anymore. So, then everything starts to creep in, you know, you think, you go back to what happened, what you became, are you with people, are you be with people, were you a good guy, not a good guy, was it necessary sometimes, not necessary? You start to be, to replay everything in your head, are you where, what you did, and back to add on people, the pack that you add on yourself. What type of person you want to be for your kids, and that's when it becomes scary, because you don't have the answers.

1:02:59Because usually I have the answers for everything. Theory tomorrow, or that guy, okay, I'm going to work out on that, work on this, going to be better next weekend, but going to work on this, I'm going to work on that, don't worry about it, going to work, you know, what next year, next year you'll see, I come back, but I'm going to be a sound, my dis, my dis, my dad, I don't say, now all I have these questions. I just about it, too many questions, brain, thinking, other thinking, and when you other think, usually you don't go to the positive thinking, when you other think, you tend to bring yourself down, and whatever wasn't good in your life, you try to find a way to make sure that you can cover it, but care wasn't around anymore, so how do you do that?

1:03:53Were you sad? No, sad, no. No. Sad, sad would not be the word, I wasn't sad, but I was trying to find an explanation of what happened to me, regardless of why it is, because I'm a guy that likes to have an explanation, and I need to know why, and when you cannot answer it, it is annoying, I find that annoying when I cannot, and not everything has an explanation, but this is the way I am, I always need to have a logical or illogical explanation, even if your explanation is not logical, explain something to me, so one I cannot understand, I'm comparing what's happening to me, it's a telephone. What's happening to you in that moment post -retirement or what happened to you in your career?

1:04:42Everything, everything came at once, especially during COVID time, because that's when I really stopped, because again I was trying to find a way to find that cape, so you pass your badges, you're becoming a coach, you try to do something to make sure that you're not going to think about what's been chasing me for a very long time. When are you going to deal with what happened to you? What if it is to you, to me, to whoever, but we tend to run instead of facing our problems? That's what we do all the time, you stay busy, you try to avoid the problem or not think about it, but then COVID happened.

1:05:27And when COVID happened, what are you running? What are you running? What are you doing? I was isolated in Montreal for a year, not for a year, I would say whenever the free month and another two months or whatever it was, and not being able to see my kids for a year was tough. Was tough because, I mean, it's a title, right? So I don't know if I don't need to even explain that one. But yeah, it was tough because I add to something like that, to happen to me for me to understand vulnerability, empathy, crying. Understand that emotions are emotion just don't become it. Anger is normal. Jalice is normal, but don't become jealous.

1:06:20Anger is normal, don't become angry. I couldn't keep that before, if I feel anger, man, I'm become angry. If I was a, again, the question asked earlier, if I was a fly on the wall in quarantine watching you, what would I have seen? Me crying almost every day for no reason. Tears were coming along. Why I don't know, but maybe they were waiting for, they were there for a very long time. Scrying for everything. Everything, I wasn't watching a movie that's not even really sad, but I'm crying. You know, everything, I don't know if that needed to come out. I don't know if, you know, I was weird. In a good way.

1:07:14In a good way, there was some stuff that I couldn't control. To be fair, I didn't try to control them. And I couldn't hide them. I couldn't suppress them, and do you want to even suppress them really? But you've been told since you're young, where if it was at home or in your job, don't be that guy, man. Don't show that you're vulnerable. If you cry, what are they going to think? Which is Sunday and up the world. But for me, when I was young, I saw someone cry, I'm like, what are you doing, man? You know, I'm like, really? It's a type of thing. So it was, yeah, you would have seen me crying, you would have seen me technically.

1:08:02It wasn't me, it wasn't me, it was the young me. It was me, I understand what I'm saying. But it was the young, the young theory there. What was he crying for? Well, everything he didn't get, approval. It's kind of weird to say that approval. I got that, I still get that all the time. But I didn't want to hear it. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like, it was coming, but not feeling my little man. So my little man, I want point to control of that body. And it was stuff, you know, you need to have the balance. This is what I'm trying to do now, to have the balance between me and my inner child, which is not an easy one.

1:08:43This is what I always say to people, once you have that discussion with that little guy, inside you, it's scary, man. It is scary because what is going to tell you is everything that you didn't want to hear or trying to avoid for a very long time. And it's to control. And what did he tell you? Be yourself, be human, show you are really. Stop fronting, stop lying, because we're liars. We pretend. We live in the world right where, let's all be honest. We live in the world where we both been told, do not judge the book by a scholar, right? We do the total opposite. Every day we do the total opposite.

1:09:31Go and try to find a job with a tracksuit and you arrive with your hood on, walk in and see if they're going to receive you. But we've been told since we're young, right Steven? Do not judge the book by a scholar. That's a lie. That's all we do. Our parents is matter. And then we keep on saying to our kids, no, the Luke doesn't matter. Really? Luke doesn't matter. That's all being honest. It does. We want to pretend or think that you've been, we are saying the right things because it looks cool. But when it comes to do it, it is a different story. Look, we go, we go, you know, this is why I like the movie Black Panther.

1:10:16You know, when he's in the museum. And the girl says, what are you doing here? I said, that's from my village. What are you talking about? We have stuff that I've been in the world, stolen for however, however it was, however it happened or whatever. That are in museum that maybe you from that part and you can't go in because you're not dressed real or because. And people are making money out of those things and you know, what are we doing? What are we talking about? And we're sitting here trying to say all the time pretending or whatever it is. It's a bit all false. So we've got to go long, you've played the game, but that has an impact.

1:11:01I remember the first time I experienced something that would be considered a mental health issue. And I remember the, the almost the shame I felt because I never thought that as a young CEO at the age of 20, 31, I always had to be the tough guy, but also I always thought those mental health challenges happened to other people. So there was almost a bit of struggle with my own sort of shame and accepting my own vulnerability that in like, do I talk to someone about this and do I keep it to myself? When you're in that room in COVID and you're crying every day and you don't know why. At that point, do you have someone that you can talk to about how you're feeling, truly and be 100 % honest with how you're feeling?

1:11:47All these years later, you must have been more 40, 40 in your 40s? Yeah, it was 2020. It looks.

1:11:59It's tough, it's tough because. You know, I'm trying to bring myself there. It's very difficult because I don't know the, the human being was. Like, I don't know. I just didn't know. Like I said, you have go back. I didn't have those doors. I didn't have those tools. I didn't, I didn't know. I just didn't know. Everything was new for me. That part of my body, those doors that I didn't have before, the understanding of them, that side of the, of the, of the game. I want to say the game, talking about life, obviously, dealing with love and, and it was weird. Weird. My, my way of dealing with love was like, you know, like I said, please, again, like, you know, giving presence to people.

1:12:54Oh my god, I'm happy. Then ask myself that question. What makes you happy, Jerry? Oof. What makes you happy? Obviously, my kids, but again, it's my kids. What makes you happy? I had zero answer. Zero. So, you know, when you, it's kind of weird because I, when you look at it, this is, this is what I would like to achieve, but it is virtually impossible. Whether you act with your brain, or you act with your heart. And at times, both feels good, especially with your heart, because it brings them different emotions. And when you act with your brain, it's a bit more, no, I'm not doing it. Here is like, let's, let's see what's going to happen, right?

1:13:45Both, if you can balance, right, your thoughts and the way you act, and you can walk on the, on the rope, you know, like the funeral bill we call them, type of objects. And you are working on there, in harmony with your inner child, connected, balancing.

1:14:15Decision with your heart and decision with your brain, that will meet the, that's in my head, the image of the perfect human being. You, working on a tight rope with your inner child, balancing decision with your brain and with your heart, because if you go too much, that, that side, you're going to fall, although you are in harmony with your inner child. If you go that way, you're also going to fall, which we all know, it's impossible. But that, you know, so I add to, in my head, create that picture, that I have the tattoo of it, by the way, but I had to create that picture in order to see what I'm aiming for.

1:15:01I needed that, I needed something, you know, before I was, you're trying to please your dad, whether I was away or not aware of it, doesn't matter, it was in me. What am I trying to do now? What is it? So I had to draw something. In that room, did you know, if I was in a room in the pandemic, and I'd been, you know, the superstar athlete, and then I find myself in a situation where I'm crying in the hotel, or in the, in the room, are you self -diagnosing? Do you understand what that is at the time? No, but I had to do it. So, the body, the body, okay. The body does heal itself. Well, if it's going to be beautiful or not, it will eventually in a certain way, heal itself.

1:15:55And even if you walk in a weird way after, you will walk, your body will re -adjust or not. Why can you not heal yourself alone mentally? To a certain degree, because you need help, and understand that. But this is what I'm saying. If you expose to something for so long, it would have an impact on you. But somehow along the way, you did adapt to it. Like you will adapt to living in a hot country or in a cold country. I go and said, how can you live here? You like, I grew up here, man. So, I got used to it. That doesn't mean it's okay. But you do in a way, adapt to it. Or you learn how to live with it or you don't.

1:16:41So, I did learn how to live with it. With a lot of impact on me, as we can see, with a lot of consequences, and I'm still trying to deal with. But yes, you do self -deal with it or self -diagnose yourself. We've all realized in it. Did you... It sounds like you were struggling with a form of depression when you were in that phase of your life. Did you know that that's what it was? No. And did you guys, I don't know. I didn't know. In hindsight, do you think that's what it was? I would like to think so. But how do I know? Because I don't know the signals. Like, I cannot tell you that I wasn't. I don't know the signals.

1:17:24I don't know. The shift is said to me right now. I don't know. Like, we give me any of the signals. Not any of it. Let me tell you. I'm the ace in that. Yeah, I wasn't good at that. Yeah. Where you... But how you've heard people characterize it now and describe it now, does that... Yeah, it does ring a bell. More than a bell. But was it... You know, I'm... Look. I'm a human being. So I have feelings. Throughout my career, and since I was born, I must have been in depression. Did I know it? No. Did I do something about it? Obviously, no. But I adapted to a certain way. That doesn't mean I'm walking straight.

1:18:09But I'm walking. You gotta put one foot and another one and walk. That's what I've been told since I'm young. And it doesn't matter where you're from. It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter your job. You gotta walk. You gotta stand. The matter of the rough the C is, whatever it is, you gotta stand and walk. And people have a way out of life than I had. Obviously. But I'm just saying it doesn't matter. You have to get up and walk. So do I realize, because I never stopped walking, then maybe I would have realized, COVID, I stopped walking. Because I couldn't put a foot after. And again, I couldn't.

1:19:00I just couldn't stand. So that's why I was like, oh, I need to pose. Then you start to realize. Then you start to have a thing. Then you start to... Whatever. I know it's kind of a cliché one. You need to stand. It's not that you fall. It's how you stand. Yeah, we all know. Not trying to be clever here. But I've been told, keep on walking. I say this because your story brings to light a bunch of statistics that I was reading about as it relates to mental health. Someone dies by suicide in the UK every 90 minutes. 76 % of these are male. 25 attempts for every death. Single biggest cause of death for men under the age of 45 is suicide.

1:19:49Single biggest cause of death for 15 to 49 year olds. 19 to 35 year olds are twice as likely to report being in the group. These stats are absolutely shocking. And they're almost 80 % of this is men. It's the... It's crazy stat that people always talk about. The single biggest cause of death if you're under the age of 45. I will... This is please. This is not a sexist thing or whatever. I don't want to enter the battle. Men, women. This is not where I'm going. But it's not easy to be a man. That sheer pressure. And it is. And the stats, you know, will tell you. And I keep on saying, I don't know.

1:20:33This is not me trying to say that I thought about it or whatever. Not at all. Not that. But I told you that I'm sure you remember. My kids saved me. And I'm not saying that just like that. But literally, I'll explain. Yeah, I'll explain. I don't know where I was going mentally. I don't know. Really? I don't know where I was going. Because when I came back from COVID, I came back home. I didn't see. Because after that year, we were allowed back home. But then I knew if I was going back to Montreal, I don't know what was happening with COVID. If I was going to not see my kids for a year or whatever.

1:21:13So I'm at home, next to you. You know, it's a month, whatever. Packed my bags. I was about to leave again. So I said, buy to my kids. Everybody was there. And you remember, I want to told you, you are my young me. Never got any approval. Never got any recognition. No, I can explain that. No love in brackets, apart from the, you know, the we are food. We have this way. Was never a game or saying or nodding or any approval like that. Packed my bag. I'm like, okay, that is about to leave. Next to you, you know, I put my bags down.

1:21:58And everyone starts to cry. So I put my bags down to say, buy to everybody. And everybody starts to cry.

1:22:08From the, the 90 to, to my girlfriend, to the kids, everybody was crying. And it's even for the first time. For the first time. And I know people say, oh my god, cherry. For the first time. Because at that moment, it was the little me that felt it. I'm like, oh, they see me. Not the football player, not the accolades, not the, and I felt human. Not, you know, me always trying to please people because, oh, you play football or you can put your cap on. Or this is why they like you. That's what they want to see. They want to see a guy that's strong. A guy that's going to perform, transmit, transcend, and inspire.

1:22:57And they're both. So be that guy. Okay, boom. Let's do it again today. Let's do it again today. But for the first time that day, I was like, oh, they see me. They were crying because you were leaving. Yeah. But they were crying for me. Do you want to be happy or crying for the athlete? Understand me well. I'm not saying they didn't before. But I never realized it. I never, for the, I felt it the first time there. And my little me for the first time got fed. We've love. Put my bags down. I told you and I stayed. I stopped coaching in Montreal. So I said, what am I doing? What am I doing? Going to go again into a situation just because you're pursuit of pleasing people and stuff and stuff.

1:23:50They love, they love Terry. The kids. Not, not, not Terry Henry. They love Terry. So I stayed. And for the first time, and I'm not scared to say it, I felt human. I felt like people, like they saw me. Like the human being. I was like, well, that felt nice. It felt really nice. This is why I said my kids. So I don't know where I was going. I don't know if I was going to obviously go back. Let's see them again. I don't know where I'm going to be that would have brought me. I don't, I don't actually know. But that day, a special day for me because, because yeah, that what they did fed my little, my little me.

1:24:36And you know, when you, you, you, you've been looking for something for so long, but you don't know what it was. You just don't know. It's annoying. It's like you're looking for something. You know you're looking for something, but you don't know what it is. And you've been throwing a lot of things. No, that's not it. No, that's not it. No, that's not it. That's still not it. Still not it. And then out of nowhere when I wasn't looking for anything, it came. But it was right in front of you the whole time. Yeah, was I, was I open enough to say, though, that's the thing was I, you know, this is why COVID, you know, made me, you know, might.

1:25:21The vulnerability, empathy, understanding those emotions. So though the doors were there. So suddenly when that happened, oh, I was like, oh, that door. Well, I said, you do that. That's nice. Open boom done. Before like, maybe that happened before I never felt it. If you know what I mean, it's kind of weird, but I felt it that day, though, and it did resonate. And you quit working in Montreal. Yeah, straight away. Straight away.

1:25:57It reminds me, I got a flashback to speaking to Patrice. Patrice Evera. Patrice Evera grew up in the South of France, I believe, rough area. No, same time as me. Same time. Yeah. That South of Paris, same time. From the same time. No, really. Patrice is a good friend of mine. And he told me, he shared it publicly on this podcast before that he, I think he was 40 years old. And his partner at the time kept asking him, like, you okay, you okay, you okay. And then one day, she's at home, they're having a little bit of a tiff. And she turns to him and goes, Patrice, are you, are you happy? And he looked at her and he burst into tears.

1:26:38And he was crying for the first time in his life. And it sounds like a similar moment, a similar sort of unlocking him. It was the first time in his life he could ever show that emotion. And he said it was that moment, the first time I ever cried, the first time I ever showed her emotion. Because up until then, I'd been a tough guy. And it was just a question asked at the right moment, the right question from the right person that inspired him to boom. And he says, that's the moment that unlocked his emotions. And obviously he's on the journey as well with him. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, Patrice.

1:27:13Look, it's, yeah, it's why I literally say that they said because I don't know where I was going. I really don't know. I really don't know. But like I said, it's very difficult for me to compare to the way I was before and why you worked in bracket then and not before. Because I was blind. Like I just said, I said so many times, you know, I could see, for example, you put me on the field, I see solutions.

1:27:48Because I used to see the game with my brain, not with my eyes. I'd explain. You have dimensions on the field, right? It's a rectangle, yeah. If you put your head up, what can stop you? This is why great players always pass the ball in the air. No matter where I've got the box, they lift it. How do you defend the air? You can't defend the air. So I always used to say, like, you can't pass me because the thing at the line is there. Right? I used to chip the ball over your leg. First I can pass you out, you can't defend the air. 20 billion people defending me if you hold the line, bowling behind your dead, not on the ground, in the air.

1:28:39So I used to see the game with my brain. I see life with my eyes. And my eyes can be pretty deceiving. So, you know, as obstacles, you see with your brain, you're like, okay, I can go through there. No problem. But life, I used to say, I'm trying to change the city. I used to say it with my eyes. So, no, no, no. When he came to competing, it's impossible that you can stop me. So, okay, that's a solution. You sound like a man that's been to therapy. Because you used terminology that I've typically had from therapists, things like the inner child. And not something that I've seen some young. I really.

1:29:28I always knew that I was disconnected with my little self. And the thing is, that's how I used to play. Disconnective. No, it's just, you know, since I'm young, like I see a solution. I used to someone says, we can't do it. I'm like, why?

1:29:52It's like, you know, I mean, you saw me play. Like, I used to come in midfielder and take the ball and go, I'm going to go. And at a particular moment, anyone will go like, oh, it's impossible. It's 1v9. And I explain it some time. It's not 1v9. It's 1v1. If I beat you, I beat the line of four. If I beat you my center back after, I beat the line of four. Then I beat the goalkeeper. It's 1v1 at the time. It's 1v1. It's 1v1. Then I score. While I do it or not, it's a different ball game. But I was capable of visualizing, sorry, the path. Instead of seeing, so, 1v9, I'll put the ball back. Why are you pushing the ball back?

1:30:39Like, okay, Steven, 1v1. I don't care about it together on your side. I beat you, they did. It's nothing they can do. Now you and me after center back, let's go. I'm not saying, and I didn't go through all the time. It's a lie. But I'm seeing the solution.

1:30:59So, it's always something that I used to have. So, and again, to be in situation, I want to point you to another analyze. I'm not saying something. I'm not lying with that. But the two points that you raised are always at that. Because I was a knowing as a player and as a student. I was always challenging my coaches. Always. I needed to know why are we doing this real? I was never going to do a drill in training. Like, boss, why? Yeah, but we don't need that in the game. Oh, wow. Can you say that? Just being honest, I'll do it. But I don't think we need that in the game. I just wanted to know why we're doing this.

1:31:49Why is it going to be relevant to how we play? I got in trouble once at school. We were analyzing a poem. You know, a oral. Whatever. Tell me what you think of that poem, whatever. So I think the author wanted to say that whatever I said. The teacher was like, no, not somewhat immense. I'm like, wait. Can I speak? I got a theory. You always have something to say. I said, well, not always, but I mean, anyway. So I said to the teacher, have you ever made Victor Hugo? She said, no. I said, how do you know what he meant? I actually don't think the teacherinku, Isn't that the beauty of words? Can I not see something different that you see?

1:32:42As long as you don't bring Victor Hugo here and you tell me what he really meant, I'm not going to go with what you're saying. She sent me to the amaft office. But what I'm trying to say is that I was always that guy. Why are you going to tell me what ASEO it is? It's good, that's what you think. Maybe the guy was drunk. When he wrote it, when he was under something. I mean, one of the best Disney movie is Alice in Wonderland.

1:33:16I mean, when you look at it, she clearly wasn't something. But I wasn't at the beauty of letting someone open their mind. So I always have been big on that, even young, without realizing our need to know. So just imagine now knowing all the ingredients now about me. Imagine now in that room of a thinking. Yeah, in Montreal. Yeah. Because I need an explanation. That's why I'm saying someone, because I need explanations. And sometimes you don't have all the tools. Are you still looking for answers?

1:34:11No, I'm trying to deal and digest with what happened. Because I now have the answers. But it's not because you have the answers sometimes that you understand what happened. I can give you the answer of a riddle. Did you understand? No. You know what I mean? So you can have the answer of something and you're like, okay, cool. Did you get it, though? Yeah, yeah, that's the answer. No, no, did you get it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's the get in it and the absorb in it and the digesting part of it that I'm trying to come to terms with. I guess it breaks down into three stages, which is to know, to understand and then to do like the behavior change.

1:34:59So to know something is one thing, we can all know things. We all know we should go to the gym and you don't. You can't say new, obviously. You're not important. You know it's better and it's still don't. Yeah. And then understand why that matters and why you should go. Not everyone understands that. And then to do it, most people don't do it. So there's three stages to implementing something we know. And you're in the stage of understanding and implementing. It's tough, though, man. It's tough in life to, even with me, with emotions and affection, like I always call my parents by the first name, never called them my mom.

1:35:36Yeah, yeah, yeah. We never hugged. Never. Never, nothing. So going into relationship as like a 31 year old man, it's all very, like you were describing awkward. Like sometimes I feel like I'm faking it when I say things. Like emotional things. I know I've got to say it, but I don't, I can't connect with it. I'm classed as like an avoidant emotionally. I avoid, we all do. Well, however, this is why I call the, the Cape, Cape can be anything. Yeah, for me it's business. So sometimes exactly. Yeah. Or when I know, not anymore, when I knew a conversation was going in a certain, you know, was going somewhere, I didn't want to be.

1:36:14And I'm like, I have to make a phone call. Like an emotional conversation. Whatever things that I didn't feel comfortable, I'm out. As a dad now, it's much of your motivation to do the work based on who you want those three children to be. And the dad they want to connect with. It's tough because like I said to you, there's, there's, it's not about not getting a good example. It's not the word. But I didn't, I didn't have, I didn't have an example. Understand, there is a difference. We're not talking about good example. I'm talking about I didn't have a real example of a couple at home.

1:36:56So for me, that's already difficult to deal with that as a, as a, as a dad because, oh, my dad used to, oh, my dad, you know, it didn't, it didn't happen because he wasn't around for that. Then I, myself, wasn't a lot at home as a, as a player, as a dad. And that carries on because of work, thanks to work, but because of work, but thanks to work, if not also because if not, there's no home, there's no, nothing, there's no, but having saying that, trying to find the right balance on something that I already struggle with myself of being at home, but also out to behave when you are, when you are at home as a dad.

1:37:46And that's the fight of a lot of men. That's why they pursue work because it's, it's in our head, more of a comfortable place, it's your comfort zone, while you think it's your comfort zone because nothing can be more comfort, comfortable, sorry, than, than being with your kids. But again, you, you pretend to live a certain life because you, you're afraid to find yourself in a situation where you don't know what to do. And it's kind of awkward or weird. So you like, oh, people are going to see me naked, they see my weakness. Uh, I've worked to do. I'm going to the office. Where's the new level?

1:38:36Oh, I'm going somewhere. I'm going, you find a way to go somewhere all the time. You know, you know, some I'm saying, and I'm not trying to, you know, let me rephrase that. You don't find a way to, but when things comes, you don't say no. Yeah. That's a better way to explain it. When it work up, you don't say no. Yeah. Instead of going, no, this is time with my family. Because we are privileged in the way to say no. I'm talking about being privileged. Because sometimes you cannot say no. But if you are privileged, what are you actually chasing? Yes, money. Let's not, let's all be honest. Okay.

1:39:18Money. Okay. But what are you? Is it more important than spending time with people that you love? But because you don't know how to behave, it's kind of a, it's kind of a weird way. And then you said the same thing, your way is work. Okay. Yeah. I've been at home for a week now. That's not really me, you know. So those are all the stuff that are difficult to deal with in my brain. It's kind of weird. I know people say, really, that's really hard. But yeah, for me, it is really hard because I've never been a homebody. I've never been at home since I'm 13 that I've been on the road. You know, leave almost alone on flights or somewhere, you know, whatever it is.

1:40:13You know, so that I know well. I'm not saying it's good or bad, that I know well. So I'm like, it's fair to say tomorrow you need to do this alone or whatever. You need to go back with travel. You're like, yeah, that's fine. Something's all that's tiring. No, it's okay. It's just... But it's also a comfort, right? It's familiar. It is. It is. It's interesting because this is why when you're young, as a kid, you always want to watch the same cartoon that you know even is the same episode because knowing what's coming next makes you feel comfortable. The familiar, whether it's healthy or not, the therapist I've spoken to on the show always talk about how we...

1:40:49We unfortunately try and recreate the unfamiliar as adults, even if it was unhealthy. And they say that in relationships, people will go for a partner. Even if their father or mother was abusive, they'll go for that because it was the way they learnt love. And I think about it the same with our careers as well, you know. It's really is a difficult adjustment to make a later in life to go from being almost like institutionalized. And I use that word to describe the life of a top athlete. That's always, you know, preparing for a game, always flying around the world, always got a cliff focus to suddenly having none of it.

1:41:22And to have that as you described, almost like rebirth yourself. There's a death and there's like a rebirth. And this is exactly what a wire said you'd die. You do. It's a shock. It's a shock to the system. When you... Whatever you do in your life, by the way, I loved it. So I loved football. I still love football as a competitor, like the athlete. Regardless of what people say, you still can play football. Yeah, I know. And not like that. That is over. I don't care what people say. No, you know you can work on... Now that's over. Never gonna play again. Never gonna play in the frame. Never gonna play.

1:42:10Never, never. That's over. That's dead. So what's the new teary? What was born out of those ashes? What's the next chapter? For me, my biggest challenge now is to be a good dad. I don't really care about the rest. I do understand what I'm saying. So to speak. But in comparison to that, it's to be a better dad, because I'm not there yet. Not at all, actually. I have a long way to go. But I'm working on it. You know, I'm not perfect. But I'm aware of what I'm missing. That's always a good start. So for me, that's what I would say. You know, a better dad and a better partner. Because for so long, you think that what you're doing is to please others.

1:43:06Bring money back to have a good life and everything. Along the way, you're missing the right moment of an attrition of life. This is what I said sometimes is tough to be a man in a certain way. We've been told that we need to go out there and be a man. I don't even know what it's supposed to mean. That's why before I go back to, oh, be a man. What is that? Because not showing a motion is not being a man. But I've been told not to show a motion. That's being a man. That's wrong. So I need to read just to that. You know, go out there. Be that, be strong. Be the level of expectation of always delivering whatever you need to deliver.

1:44:00You know, be a good dad. Be a good partner. It's like for everybody and by the way, you know, I'm not talking about gender and everything, but I'm a man. So, but be a man. What is that supposed to mean? If you could go back and have a conversation with that five -year -old Tierra, and you could say a couple of words to him that maybe would have helped him later in life. That's a tough one because...

1:44:29That's the fun because I always say... I always say, when people ask me that, I'll say, I enjoy the ride. I enjoy the ride. And I see some enjoy because I forgot to enjoy the ride. You regret that? No, I don't regret it because maybe if I did enjoy the ride, I would have been different. It's so weird for me to say that, but this is what I will say to him now. Knowing that he might have an impact on his life and maybe not being that good of a player. Or maybe better. I don't actually know. But I don't regret stuff because that's what made you, in a way. You learn from people are scared of failing.

1:45:17I wasn't scared of failure. I was most scared not to please people, but failure. You're going to fail. And that's what makes you. That's what shapes you. When people say, I don't regret it because it makes you be better or better man or better person or whatever it is. I don't have regrets. But I think along the way we enjoy, we forget to enjoy living. To enjoy it. We just do it. It's like breathing. You don't think about breathing, right? You're living now. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I'm trying to enjoy it. I'm trying to accept you know when people say something to me. Like I never used to take a compliment well as you can imagine because what used to trigger me the most was what I didn't do well.

1:46:11And I was like, oh, Terry, you were good. Well, that's what I'm supposed to do. Terry, we have a closing tradition on this podcast which is kind of interesting because the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And it's funny that this is the question that's been left for you. No. God. What do you most regret from your childhood and how are you working to resolve that regret? What do you regret? I said you don't regret anything. But what I will say to solve it in a way, I don't regret it. It's true. It's not a cliche thing. I do think that when you, you, you, you, this is your mistakes will make you better, hopefully.

1:46:54But what I will say to my young self is actually enjoy it. Don't forget to enjoy it and be happy. The question before, I'm going to ask you and say because I really ask you though, what things are you doing that are contributing to keeping you stuck or stopping you from progressing in the way that you would like? Pleasing people still. Yeah, because it's something I cannot get rid of. But I need to to balance it out with my own happiness. So I can't help myself blazing people. That's something that I have in me. And I think, you know what, I think personally it's a good trade, but you can't go too far with it because you forget your own happiness.

1:47:39What do you want people to, you know, we know the theory on the pitch, the legend. But what do you want to be remembered as, especially considering you, you've got so many chapters of life left to live? Like I said to you, I just want to be remembered because if you are remembered is because you've done something. You're going to be remembered. But that's good enough for me. It ends, it will depend on people. But for me, what matters right now is are you are you transcend people? What you transmit and are you can help people? For example, to be able to open up like the way I am matters for me more than because when you did succeed and people see you as someone that they like to follow, tell them you struggled, tell them the real you for them to understand fully what's happening.

1:48:34And that matters more than any title that I want. That matters more than anything else. Be honest, stop lying. And I did life for a very long time because you have to, because the society wasn't ready to hear what you have to say, especially in my world. But that if you can have an impact on someone's life and you have a day I was in Miami, I will be honest with you. I don't really, I don't get bothered, I'm not too bothered when people say, oh my god, Terry, like I love it. I love to hear it, but I'm not like after like to see what he said, you know, I don't take it too far. But there was a guy there, but I mean Miami, a copy came.

1:49:19And he says to me, Terry, can you sign on my arm? What are you going to do? I mean, say no, I'm going to tattoo your autograph and I was like, and I looked at him and said, come on, you know, more important stuff to do. And he goes, no, you change my life.

1:49:42So I looked at him and I went, sorry, the one, yes, man, you don't understand through the struggle I was looking up to you and you changed my life.

1:49:53I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to say. I really like I stopped and I look at people and I went, then I realized what matters, then I realized without knowing from the mission of a man from the mission of my dad, actually throughout all the struggles, all the problems that I'm still dealing with, as for that, that is exactly for that because you, that man said to me like a change is like, save them from playing football. It's like I said to you is what you transmit and how you transcend people. I don't know why you saw it because I had to go and I actually took his address and his name.

1:50:50I still have it at home. I need to write him write something for him and sign him something soon. But that is something is went up until now and that's something yes, I will tell my kids, not that I won't walk up and stuff like that, I will tell my kid. Terry, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. For many, many reasons. I met you in Paris and I sat there in awe because I knew the player, but I didn't know the man. I sat there on the edge of my chair because I got a glimpse of the man and for me, the stuff you did on the field, your legend, there's almost nobody that I can, there's no comparisons there on the field.

1:51:33But the thing that blew me away was your willingness to speak so vulnerably and powerfully as a human and as a man. And that's why then message you straight after and said, please, I would love to have a conversation with you because it left such a profound impact on me to think, oh my God, Terry on re feels those things. Terry on re has those struggles. It makes it okay for me to have those struggles and it will make it okay for the millions of people that will listen to this conversation to have those struggles as well. And in normalizing it and us all realizing that those struggles on evidence of my inadequacy or evidence that I'm broken, it's actually evidence that I'm a human being too like to carry.

1:52:17Exactly. Helps me to move past those struggles and that's the one of the most powerful things and I think one of the most inspiring things that you can do. And it's another example of tier and re transcending and another chapter of his life in another way. So thank you so much. Thank you. And I say that thanks to extend on behalf of everybody listening as well who who would love to be able to say it to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Stephen. Do you need a podcast to listen to next? We've discovered that people who liked this episode also tend absolutely love another recent episode we've done.

1:52:49So I've linked that episode in the description below. I know you'll enjoy it.

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