A singer’s search for peace

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30Rūgilė Daujotaitė:an award-winning behavioral scientist and author of the best-selling book, How to Change, as she shares true stories from Nobel laureates, authors, athletes, and everyday people about why we make the choices we do and how to make better ones to help avoid costly mistakes. Listen to choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast or wherever you listen.

1:00I was in that Eurovision song, I was worshipping the thunder god. And I was dressed as a thunder goddess with white tunic and red cape.

1:14From the outset, it looked like life was going great. Beautiful looking, on television, very well known here in your home country of Lithuania. I mean, you were winning in life. It looked like that from outside, inside. I felt tortured emotionally. I felt kind of depression. I felt strange influences in my physical and spiritual body, like maybe I was possessed.

1:45Oh my God, what did I do?

1:55You're listening to Heart and Soul from the documentary on the BBC World Service. I'm Colm Flynn and I've come to Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania. And just to warn you, this program does contain references to the occult and to drug use.

2:19The sun is shining through an open window as I sit in the living room of one of the country's best-known singers, listening as she plays the piano.

2:37My name is Rugilia Daujo-Taitė and I'm from Lidijoainia, Vilnius.

2:45Lithuania is a predominantly Catholic country with around three quarters of the population identifying as Catholic. But Rugile did not grow up with the faith at home. Only my grand-grandmother was Catholic, but she did not explain the faith to her children, my grandma, and to her grandchildren, my mother and aunt. She did not teach the faith, but she would pray herself all the time, rosaries, probably many rosaries per day, and sometimes would go even twice to the Holy Mass. But she did not teach us about her faith, probably because of Soviet Union.

3:28For decades, Lithuania was under Soviet rule. The country restored its independence in 1990. But during the Soviet period, religious life was heavily restricted. Churches were closed or controlled, religious education was curtailed, and priests, religious and lay believers could face harassment, imprisonment or even exile for openly practicing their faith. In Soviet Union, you just could not get high positions for your work, for the faith you would be laughed at at school when my mother was young. Instead, Rougile says her grandmother and mother became involved in occult and esoteric practices.

4:34And he brought the yellow literature to my mother. And there, when she was 16, she read about reincarnation, about Hinduism concepts. And later on, when Lithuania already became free in 1991, suddenly there was a boom of occultism in the whole country, in all the post-Sovietic countries, which were just liberated. it suddenly came thousands and thousands of witches, witch doctors and readers of cards and of palms and astrologers. Like it was so, so popular. And that's how my family, the women of my family got into New Age.

5:24New Age is a broad term for a loose collection of spiritual ideas and practices. It often draws on Eastern religions, alternative healing, meditation, astrology, mysticism, and beliefs about spiritual energy. There is no central leader, sacred text, or fixed set of beliefs. People often combine different ideas and practices in their own way. And this was the spiritual world that surrounded Rugile as she grew up. When I was a small child, less than 12 years old, because I remember we still lived in this house on the second floor, and in the kitchen there, I asked her, I remember very well, Mother, why there are so many religions?

6:07What do they mean? Like, why? She answered to me, God is one, but he has many faces. So he appeared to people in India in such ways that they would understand because their culture is different. People there are different. Then he appeared to God to African people as they would understand. And here he appeared in Christianity, like in this way. She told me this all is the same God. So my whole interest was spiritual world since my childhood. I believed always in God and I wanted to get to know God. and this was the path that my mother led me to. Sitting in this very house where we are speaking today, Rugile remembers sitting on the floor and flicking through books about occultism and esoteric spirituality.

6:59As a small girl, I was already reading the dictionary of occultism, really learning different things of occultism. I was looking for happiness and for peace. And she says she was fascinated by this new world that was opening up in front of her. New Age is make your own truth. Make your own God. People believe that they can themselves determine what is truth. In New Age, you can take any God from any religion and put into your belief system. That's what I did. I worshipped gods of Ireland, of Celtic gods, African gods, Umbanda religion gods from South America. of course Jesus and Mary. So you would pray to gods of many different religions and faiths?

7:49Yes. Pagan ones and old Celtic Irish gods and it would be a mix and a blend of all of them. And that what is New Age? I also worshipped Hindu gods and old Lithuanian gods because I wanted something each of them can give to us. It is said that each of them can strengthen certain area of your life or your qualities or make you important in this or in that way. So I worshipped many gods because I wanted a lot. In her 20s, Ruggile moved to Amsterdam to study jazz music and she began singing at festivals and concerts across Europe. Here she is in 2018 performing at a music festival in The Hague in the Netherlands.

8:31I can only give you love that lasts forever.

8:42And at that time, she was also increasingly open about her spiritual beliefs. In an interview after that performance, she spoke about a recent trip to Hawaii. I had a very strong calling to go to Hawaii to meet the volcano, to meet the Pele, the goddess of volcano. So now I feel very much fire energy in me and less shyness.

9:07Rugile had begun practicing Santu Daimi. Santo Daime is a religious movement that began in Brazil, in the Amazon region, in the early 20th century. It combines elements of Christianity, indigenous Amazonian traditions, Afro-Brazilian spirituality, and more. Well, I started to work as a shaman when I was maybe 28, 27 years old. What is that, a shaman? A shaman is a medium between spirit world and human world. Now you say you started to work at it. I mean, is there a job advert somewhere? How do you get the job as a shaman? Asking for a friend. I mean, many people would like to, especially those who visit shamans, but you cannot if you do not get special powers from the, I would bravely say from the devil.

10:03Central to those ceremonies that she was involved in is a drug called ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is a psychoactive plant brew traditionally used in parts of the Amazon. It usually contains DMT, a powerful hallucinogenic substance, and it can produce intense changes in perception, emotion and consciousness. And it can also carry physical and psychological risks, particularly for vulnerable people or when mixed with certain medications. Yes, ayahuasca is a drink, is a potion, which is made of two herbs from South America, Amazon forests. It is the worst taste. I never tasted anything so bad in my life, but it's very, very strong.

10:51It is one of the strongest psychedelic drugs, and it puts you in such a state that your brain works as in a dream, but at the same time you are awake. But at the time, obviously, you thought it was the right thing to do. You believed it was a path to enlightenment. You thought this would lead you to enlightenment. Definitely. And I was, I wanted, I was aiming for enlightenment because that's what New Age teaches, that you can get enlightened. You can become another Jesus, ascended master and so on. So I wanted all of that.

11:27Rūgilė Daujotaitė:With the new Schwab Teen Investor account, teens can gain hands-on investing experience and build positive money habits. It's an account co-owned by you and your teen, so you can monitor and engage with the account while your teen learns how to invest and manage money. Learn more at schwab.com. Support comes from Wise, the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send money abroad with your everyday bank? Choose the smart way. Wise. You can count on the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google, No unwelcome surprises. Plus, ditch that where's my money feeling.

12:04Rūgilė Daujotaitė:Most transfers arrive in under 20 seconds. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart. Get wise. Download the Wise app today. T's and C's apply.

12:21You're listening to Heart and Soul from the documentary on the BBC World Service. I'm Colm Flynn talking to Lithuanian singer Rugile Dautite about her story of growing up, practicing occult religions. And when she was living in the Netherlands, Rugile says she began taking ayahuasca more and more often. Within her religious community, it was described as sacred medicine or sacred tea, a drink that could unlock hidden parts of the mind and bring enlightenment.

12:58And at this time, Rugile was also uploading online videos of herself singing spiritual songs like this one.

13:15When she was back in her home country of Lithuania, Rugile was becoming better known in mainstream entertainment too, appearing on programs like The Voice. Ruggile.

13:31No matter how hard I try, you keep pushing me aside and I can't break through. There's no talking to you. On stage, she looked happy and confident, singing on live TV in front of the nation. But Ruggile says that she was living two lives, performing in public during the day and taking part in intense rituals at night.

14:06I go there dressed in white, in long white skirt because that's a dress code, long white dresses. All men are with white suits. We stand in the big circle where every person has a set position which is with chalk set on the floor. So you have your own position. For seven to ten hours, we do not eat and we dance and we sing special songs of Santo D 'Aime Sect in Portuguese. Very, very simple movements to the left, to the right, to the left, to the right. You cannot like... For seven or eight hours? Or 12. And are you drinking the psychedelic during these seven hours are you talking to each other or you're just praying and swaying?

14:54No, it's very strict. We are not talking. We just have to do what everybody's doing to sing and dance in that set movement. And we drink Ayahuasca three to five or even more times per night. When people drink it, they go into convulsions, they vomit, they lie down. Of course, they cannot dance. So the dancing people remain only those who already do it for years and who practiced and can tolerate that, who, so to say, grew spiritually enough to stand and to sing and dance the whole night. I've never done it. What does it feel like? What do you go through? Do you have an experience that is a spiritual experience?

15:40What do you feel? Ayahuasca is a highly illegal drug. In Lithuania, it is punished as a heroine. So your brain functions when you drink ayahuasca like in a dream, but you are awake. You see visions with open eyes. Many people see the same visions. You meet spiritual beings who really, it seems like, talk to you and give you whatever knowledge or scare you or love you or guide you. When people drink ayahuasca, they vomit basically throughout the night. They cannot even sit up. Many people who were atheists go out of these kind of sessions definitely believing that there is a spiritual world. Because the experience they've had is so strong that it confirms for them there is something there.

16:32There is something there.

16:52I was going worse and worse. Inside I was tortured emotionally, spiritually, mentally. I had hysteria sometimes. I felt terrible. I could not control my emotions. I felt like constant slight depression I wasn't happy next to all of this You were becoming more and more famous I've seen the clips of you online singing as part of the National Eurovision Song Contest here in Lithuania on a big stage on live television in front of a big crowd You were becoming successful which is very hard to do in your profession Now I'm laughing, now I'm smiling because I remember that performance probably which you saw That was the depths of my new age.

17:38I was in that Eurovision song. I was worshipping the thunder god.

17:49Bravo! Bravo! I felt basically constant kind of depression. In new age, the sexual relations are very free. It's all right. You share love. They call it love sharing. You simply share love, you know. now to play devil's advocate I know there'll be people listening to this now who will say well look as long as you're a good person and everyone is consenting you're going around you're exploring different religions you're picking the best from different faiths and the good qualities and the ethics and you're choosing the partners you want to have relationships with and you're living your free life you get full choice and freedom and that's the you get to choose to live the way you want to live.

18:34And what's wrong with that? Yes, only a few generations passed when Europe, America, Western world lost their moral values. Only a few generations passed. A few generations passed this kind of thinking would be condemned. Like everybody would think, what is this? This is not acceptable. But now it is acceptable indeed. It was around this time that she teamed up with another shamanist leader in Lithuania and began offering retreats to groups. And this, she says, was when things started to become more serious. You rent a house, you invite a group of people, 20 to 40 people, you cook yourself or you ask or you buy it, somebody cooked it.

19:19Of course, super illegal. You can go to jail for 13 years. You started to make it yourself. Did you ever think it could be dangerous, especially with young people coming into the door who are a bit naive and wanted to try new things and you're making this very toxic drug and giving it to them. People die from ayahuasca. We were risking extremely as new shamans with this partner of mine, a shaman who invited me to work together in England in our first ceremony. I was a spiritual teacher, but inside I was feeling terribly. So what a liar can do that? feel terribly and teach other people to live like them.

20:01What is that? How to find happiness. You were telling people how to find happiness, but inside? I was giving all kinds of workshops in all kinds of circumstances. Whatever I would create, I could make it. For example, divine femininity, freedom of soul. That's new age. You live in imaginary world and you tell it as a truth. I felt terrible, you know, inside, but I was very successful outside.

20:43Looking back, Ruggile again is convinced that these rituals and practices left her spiritually troubled. She describes feeling, in her words, possessed. But as things became more difficult, she began reading the Bible and says she felt increasingly drawn away from Santu Daimi and from taking the drug ayahuasca. Yet she still had more retreats planned. So it went through three nights, over three nights. We had four shamans helping us. We were in total six shamans because a very big group came to us from other countries and so they liked us, they loved us. The work went well, but before these ceremonies, I told them that now I am trying to be Christian and now I believe in the Bible.

21:31I suggest you all read the Bible. There I'm reading and I'm finding all the answers. I decided now I will pray in Jesus' name. And my first prayer in Jesus' name was like that. God, please show me the truth. In Jesus' name, Amen. Brugile was in Tenerife with a group who had paid to attend a two-night retreat. The first night went as usual. But on the second night, Ruggile says she had a change of heart. After that morning had to be the second night of ayahuasca drinking. So I told to my clients, do not drink ayahuasca. And I'm not drinking it again. Something is really wrong with it. And they came to Tenerife, to the island in the middle of nowhere.

22:16They paid a lot of money to come and have this experience and to drink that. Yes, they paid a lot of money. And now their shaman to whom they came is saying, do not do this. Do not drink, I was. The shaman is having doubts and saying, actually, the stuff that I told you was brilliant last night and you should drink, which you did. Tonight, I'm telling you, it's not good for you and you shouldn't touch it. Yes, and some of the people, that was VIP smaller ceremony, maybe 20 people or so, some of them listened to me and did not drink. But one man whom I especially told not to listen because first night he lost his consciousness and we had a hard time bringing him back.

22:50People lose consciousness there. And did the people, were they angry at you? where they're saying, hang on, what's going on here? This is a scam. You told me last night that this will give me spiritual enlightenment. This was the, what did you call it? The spiritual, sacred medicine. And now you're telling me that it's sacred poison or something? In New Age, if you are following New Age, you cannot be angry. That's one of the twisted things of New Age. If you are developing spiritually, that's what New Age is teaching. You cannot be angry. So if you start to question and get angry and suspicious, then there's something wrong with you spiritually.