In short
Poland’s planned first nuclear power plant at Lubiatowo-Kopalino—its promised energy independence, local economic effects, and the anti-nuclear backlash tied to environmental loss and waste concerns.
Guests/backgrounds
Miłosz Motyka, Poland’s Minister of Energy; Marek Woszczyk, head of PEJ (state company coordinating the plant); Maximilian Milavich, 27-year-old chef/restaurant owner in Hocevo; Sebastian Milewski, laundrette owner; Jolanta Gruba, holiday-home owner and former anti-nuclear banner holder; Aleksandra Aleksandrovich-Woods, founder of Baltic SOS; Piotr Wróblewski, author on the abandoned Żarnowiec nuclear project; Stanisław Miedzielec, former Żarnowiec steel fixer; Paweł Olko, nuclear physics professor in Krakow.
Key claims
Nuclear is needed for “sovereignty” and lower/competitive electricity prices; construction targets first unit online in 2036; waste will be stored on-site then moved to a repository. Critics argue forest loss, flawed environmental assessments, uranium mining harms, and long-term radioactive waste risks.
Notable examples
300+ hectares of forest cleared; yellow “no to Atom” protests; Żarnowiec’s abandoned half-built reactors after Chernobyl; local businesses expecting workers (laundrette schedules, catering, possible tourism shifts).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOExploring Poland's Nuclear Ambitions
0:30 to 3:30
The initial exploration of the construction site for Poland's first nuclear power plant and its implications.
“Follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app.”
Local Perspectives on Nuclear Energy
3:30 to 6:00
Discussion with local business owners on how the nuclear plant affects their livelihoods.
“From the BBC World Service, this is the documentary, Atomic Crossroads, Poland's Nuclear Future.”
Opposition and Concerns
6:00 to 9:00
Voices of opposition against the nuclear power plant and their reasons for concern.
“For Maximilian, the development will bring new customers.”
Meeting the Activists
9:00 to 12:00
Interaction with activists against the nuclear project and their motivations.
“Who are the people opposing the new development?”
Environmental Concerns and Nuclear Waste
13:28 to 14:06
Discussion on the environmental implications of nuclear power, including waste disposal issues.
“Aleksandra hasn't been here for a few months, and I can tell she's visibly shocked at the scale of destruction.”
Concerns Over Nuclear Power in Poland
14:06 to 15:36
Explore the environmental and safety concerns surrounding nuclear energy in Poland.
“Alexandra doesn't believe there should be a nuclear power plant anywhere in Poland.”
Local Perspectives on Nuclear Development
15:36 to 17:20
Hear local opinions on the construction of the nuclear power plant and its potential impact.
“From the BBC World Service, this is the documentary, Atomic Crossroads, Poland's Nuclear Future.”
Historical Context of Nuclear Energy in Poland
17:20 to 19:34
Learn about Poland's past nuclear endeavors and the impact of Chernobyl.
“40 years ago, a plant was under construction in Żarnowiec.”
Public Protests and Political Changes
19:34 to 21:50
Discover how public protests shaped the nuclear landscape in Poland post-Chernobyl.
“I meet with Piotr Wróblewski, the author of a book about Żarnowiec.”
Expert Insights on Nuclear Viability
21:50 to 23:09
Gain insights from experts on Poland's current nuclear energy capabilities and challenges.
“As a result, Poland has never generated nuclear power.”
Show all 13 chapters
Government Support for Nuclear Power
23:09 to 26:08
Understand the Polish government's rationale and plans for investing in nuclear energy.
“Israel and Iran attack some of the most important energy sites in the world.”
The Future of Nuclear Energy in Poland
26:08 to 28:02
Explore future prospects and potential challenges for Poland's nuclear energy plans.
“Maximilian told me they were talking about a nuclear power plant in the area when he was at primary school 20 years ago.”
Poland's Nuclear Future: A New Chapter
28:02 to 28:42
Explore Poland's commitment to nuclear energy and its implications for the future.
“with many technical universities in Poland.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:01Or wherever you listen.
1:08Beautiful. Wow. That's the sea. The Baltic Sea. The white sands of Swaicea Beach in northern Poland look too pristine to be real. You can see the line of the tides where the sand just stays slightly more wet. A five minute walk brings me into a fragrant grove of pine trees The floor is covered with old needles and cones And suddenly you walk into this completely empty area There is a stark line where the trees stop Behind me is a dense forest But ahead of me is an empty space Yeah, the construction site looks like a destruction site, just a massive area of a forest that was completely cut down.
2:03This area in Lubietovo Kopalino, in the north of Poland, has been cleared to make space for the country's very first nuclear power plant. This is where over 300 hectares of forest have been cut down in the name of energy sovereignty, moving away from coal and lowering electricity prices. And according to the Polish Minister of Energy, Miłosz Motyka, the stakes are high. Nuclear gives us and Europe a chance for independence, so that we can be strong and not rely on imports. Marek Woszczyk leads the PEJ, the state-owned company tasked with coordinating the construction of the power plant. He has ambitious plans for what this project could deliver.
2:48We calculated the majority of households in Poland could be supplied. When it comes to the total demand, this should be like 10 to 11 percent, including industry. Poland's path to nuclear power has been checkered. The Chernobyl catastrophe in neighboring Ukraine 40 years ago made many Poles suspicious of nuclear power. But in the last few years, there has been mainstream support for this energy type among Poland's 37 million strong population. So, what changed their minds? I'm Susanna Zaruk, a journalist born and raised in Poland, and I'm traveling to the North Coast to find out if Poland's future lies in nuclear power.
3:30From the BBC World Service, this is the documentary, Atomic Crossroads, Poland's Nuclear Future.
3:44I'm on my way to meet a local chef. The new site will be opening just 12 kilometers from his restaurant. On my drive there, I notice the area is dotted by bright yellow signs. There was a banner on the fence of the house, a yellow banner saying no to Atom. Under the protest slogan, there is a foreboding radiation warning symbol. I've arrived in Hocevo, a village of about 5 ,000 people To meet Maximilian Milavich at his restaurant called Under the Chestnut Tree I want to find out what the new power plant means For local business owners like him The restaurant is shut on Sundays But Maximilian opens the door for me and offers me a warm drink I would love a coffee, just black Just black, fine Thank you Let me get some cups We sit down and he tells me this place has belonged to his family for three generations.
4:46When I ask him about the Polish cuisine served here, his face lights up. What we are really good at, it's for sure pierogies and there is also placek po cygańsku. In English you can call them hash browns, but ours are very different because they are always nice and crispy and soft inside. He's 27 years old and only recently returned to his home to settle down after working in restaurants and on construction sites abroad. I'm really proud that me and probably my kids in the future can run it as well. His restaurant is already catering to the workers from the construction site. So far, there have been dozens of them.
5:29But once the construction is in full swing, Maximilian expects many more will move to his village. I believe Hocevo will change from a village to a small city of up to 15 ,000, 20 ,000 people. Being in the centre of it, in this beautiful 150 years of building, we're going to generate more opportunities. I mean, we can change into a small boutique hotel. We can invest more money in restaurants. I have already a couple of ideas. For Maximilian, the development will bring new customers. But it means more to him than that. He believes it will provide a reliable source of energy for Poland. This is the time for us, Poland, to become independent, to have cheap and reliable source of energy for another hundred of years.
6:23And what about the argument that forests are being cut down for the construction, that it destroys nature around here? Some of the nature will be destroyed, but that's human DNA that we change our environment for our own plans. In Warsaw, Poland's capital, I meet with Marek Wozczyk, the head of PEJ, Poland's state-owned company in charge of developing nuclear power. He sits down behind his desk and tells me that changes are imminent. We try hard to stick to our schedule so that the first reactor first unit is to be online in 2036, 10 years from now. The entire power plant, to let it happen, we plan to pour the first nuclear concrete in December 2028.
7:16In peak construction season, the PEJ is expecting about 10 ,000 workers in the area. The PEJ has already begun asking local hospitality businesses to register as hosts. I want to speak to more business owners in Kotevo who are preparing for this influx. A short walk from Maximilian's restaurant is a laundrette. It's run by Sebastian Milewski from his home. As I walk in, Sebastian is loading a large washing machine. His sister and his wife are feeding clothes into a rotary iron by a small window. Currently, electricity bills eat up about one-third of the income from the londonette. But Sebastian has figured out how to save money.
8:02He shows me a handwritten schedule, taped to a machine. These are the specific hours when it's more affordable to use electricity. It's more expensive in the morning until noon because everyone is using it then. In the afternoon and the evening it's cheaper. These kinds of deals help us save. Like Maximilian, Sebastian sees the power station as a key to unlock opportunities in the local economy. He leads me into his backyard to point out job opportunities the new power plant has already created. You can already see the changes. Here next to my house, for example, they'll build four blocks of flats and a railway too, so I hope it can improve our lives here.
8:47We'll definitely have a better connection to the rest of the world. Despite evidence that the plant is creating new jobs, there is still anti-nuclear sentiment in the area. I asked Sebastian about the bright yellow protest banners I passed on my way here. Who are the people opposing the new development? I noticed that the opponents are mainly rich people who don't need electricity because they have solar panels and energy banks, and the supporters are poorer people who need electricity from the mains.
9:23I drive on. I want to speak to people who live even closer to the construction site. Five kilometers away, in the next village, I start talking to Jolanta Gruba. She owns a holiday home here and has been renting to tourists for the past eight years. Unlike the other business owners I spoke to, the prospect of more rentals of her holiday home doesn't make the power plant worth it for Jolanta. They're convincing people to offer houses for all year-round rental for those future contractors, but that's not why we built these houses. We were focused on tourism because we're enchanted with this place, this calm, and now all this will be disrupted.
10:09She worries that naming the plant Lubiatowo-Kopalino after the neighbouring villages will deter tourists from coming. Jolanta isn't against nuclear power in principle. She's just against it here. She thinks that Bohatów, a city in the south of Poland, would be a more suitable place for it. It already hosts the country's largest coal plant, so it's an area that has already been heavily industrialized. She used to display a no-to-nuclear banner on her fence, but she took it down because she was tired of fighting with family, friends, and even guests. Unfortunately, when I've hosted tourists here, I have encountered negative opinions.
10:52Instead of starting off with a nice welcome, it has started with discussions about the power plant. It was quite uncomfortable for me because, of course, some of those who came were against, but others were strongly for nuclear power, and I didn't feel like explaining to each and every person why I'm against.
11:14Yolanta tells me that Baltic SOS is the organization that has been handing out the anti-nuclear yellow banners. The next morning, I meet Aleksandra Aleksandrovich-Woods, one of the organization's founders. She says she can show me the new construction site. It's sunny and still, so we decide to take the scenic route along the beach. While we're walking, I ask her why she set up Baltic SOS.
11:46This construction will be in the most beautiful part of the Polish coast. This was the only undisrupted part of the forest that was by the sea. This should be a nature reserve. Right now we're missing 400 hectares of the forest, and that's the main reason we decided to rebel against this. Do you feel this air? You don't have air like this anywhere else. I haven't been to the Baltic Sea for over a decade, and I don't live in Poland anymore. But being immersed in this beauty makes me appreciate my home country even more. After nearly an hour... At BritBox, character is everything. Stream the iconic characters defining British TV on BritBox, including Ludwig...
12:33I think I might just have solved a murder. Vera. Now we're getting somewhere. Agatha Christie's Poirot. Bonjour. And more beloved favourites. I'm a policeman. I'm professional. I'm a Time Lord. In the Duchess of York. Once you know them, you never quite forget them. I be in vain. I just am special. Stream the best of British TV on BritBox. Watch for the free trial today at BritBox.com. Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Personal finance can feel like a pop quiz you didn't study for. This podcast is your study guide. On NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, you'll hear from trusted journalists who explain the why behind major financial decisions.
13:12you'll get research-backed insights and clear pros and cons, whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast on your favorite podcast app. We arrive at the sand dunes that mark the beach access to the construction site. Aleksandra hasn't been here for a few months, and I can tell she's visibly shocked at the scale of destruction. I remember this area being so different. We'd come horse riding here. There was forest everywhere. My children grew up in this forest. My eldest daughter is 22 today, so for 22 years we walked this route.
13:54I remember every tree. Each one of us had our own tree. I used to say, oh, these are the crooked sisters, or that one is my son's bench. Alexandra doesn't believe there should be a nuclear power plant anywhere in Poland. Firstly, she tells me, she's against the way uranium is being mined. Uranium is the material used to fuel the nuclear reactors. The way in which this resource is mined is scandalous. It ruins the environment, so this is no green energy. Secondly, the natural resources needed to make this colossal thing function are massive. Thirdly, radioactive waste is currently impossible to dispose of, to rework, and the most potent is just deadly.
14:44It will be deadly for years, and there's no place to hide it.
14:51The PEJ has said nuclear waste is outside the scope of their investment, but the Ministry of Energy has said high-level waste, which is very radioactive, will be stored on the power plant's premises and then sent to a repository. Baltic SOS have raised concerns about the new construction, citing issues with the environmental impact assessments that were carried out. The courts dismissed most of the claims, though some are still ongoing. As Alexandra and I leave the site, I can feel her hopelessness. She says she will keep fighting, but fewer and fewer people are joining her fight. From the BBC World Service, this is the documentary, Atomic Crossroads, Poland's Nuclear Future.
15:43That evening, I'm thinking about what Jolanta told me, that she's worried the naming of the power plant will cause tourism to drop in the area. I want to ask my own host in the rental I'm staying in about this.
15:59Jan Brzeziński built the house himself. It has beautiful exposed brickwork and a cozy fireplace. When Jan comes by with his daughter to light the fire for me, I ask them about the area. It is a paradise here. The beach is, I think it's the most beautiful beach in Poland, maybe in that part of Europe. So we didn't want to have the industry here, right? But since the construction has begun, her opinions on the power plant feel less certain. I don't know, now I'm not totally negative, rather maybe positive. Maybe it will be a good thing for the region, for the people. For sure we'll have better roads and so on.
16:44Jan is firmer in his convictions. I think the region will develop. More people will come, new workplaces. It will last many years and will be annoying at first, of course. But there will be new roads, new railways. The tourists aren't only interested in relaxing, but they've already started asking me where the plant is and if it's possible to go see it. So even they will want to see it during construction and when it's online.
17:15This isn't the first time Poland hitched its hopes on nuclear power. 40 years ago, a plant was under construction in Żarnowiec. It's only 20 kilometers away from the new site, so I decided to visit. Emerging from a cluster of trees, I glimpsed the remains of Poland's past nuclear efforts. We're standing at the site where the first reactor of Żarnowiec was supposed to be built. It's pretty surreal. I see a complex of what looks like half-finished concrete buildings. It looks like a fortress that got abandoned. By 1986, a sizable portion of the buildings had been built. But to be a functioning power station, the plant needed nuclear reactors.
18:05But then, in neighboring Ukraine, a nuclear tragedy struck. It does now seem likely that sometime in the last couple of days there's been perhaps the worst accident in the short history of the world's nuclear power industry. On the 26th of April that year, a reactor at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant exploded. The radiation blast contaminated 150 ,000 square kilometers. Of course, the cloud from Chernobyl has traveled far beyond the Soviet Union. The most seriously affected foreign country is neighboring Poland. Poland was within the USSR's sphere of influence. So the Poles received extremely scarce information for the first few days after the catastrophe.
18:51As a result, rumors about safety swirled. I emerged from my bedroom to find my bath already full of water. In the kitchen, all large receptacles were being filled from the tap. people were apparently drawing off safe water before a wave of allegedly contaminated water reached Warsaw from the south. The rumor was vigorously denied. After Chernobyl, Polish public support for the construction of a nuclear power plant reached an all-time low of 20%, according to the national polling organization, the CBOS. At first, polls took to the streets to protest the government's approach to the Chernobyl catastrophe and demand more information.
19:34OK, dobra. I meet with Piotr Wróblewski, the author of a book about Żarnowiec. I ask him about the protests that happened in the years following the explosion in Chernobyl. Piotr says the protests came to a head in 1988, when two of the reactors for Żarnowiec were almost delivered to a nearby port. When the people who don't want the nuclear power plant protest, They don't want to put the reactors to the power plant, so they stop the reactors in harbour. The reactors were never transported to the site. The years following the Chernobyl disaster marked a political and economic transformation in Poland.
20:16With the Soviet Union crumbling, Poland became independent in 1989. But state treasury was empty. the Soviet companies that had been delivering construction parts to Zharnoviec didn't exist anymore. And on top of these challenges, those anti-nuclear protests began. I think they not protest against the power plant, but they protest against the Soviet technology, the Soviet Union and the system. I want to find out what the aborted plans meant to those who built Żarnowiec, the abandoned site. Stanisław Miedzielec and I meet on a roadside nearby. Stanisław worked there for five years as a steel fixer.
21:03He's a welcoming, smiley 68-year-old with a grey moustache, a black felt hat and black-rimmed glasses. He says he still holds a deep sense of disappointment that the plant wasn't built. Sometimes I get tears in my eyes when we talk about those things, that they closed this here. We would have had cheaper electricity. Stanisław hopes that he will live to see Poland's first nuclear power plant. I hope to God that everything here will go well, because I have four sons, so maybe my sons will work here too. They won't have to travel all around Germany to work on construction sites. The construction in Żarnowiec was abandoned for good in 1990.
21:50As a result, Poland has never generated nuclear power. So today, do the Poles have the know-how to run a plant like the one they want to build? Okay. I'm going to start recording. My name is Paweł Olko. Paweł Olko is a professor at the Institute of Nuclear Physics in Krakow. I'm speaking with him remotely, and he holds up a device from his lab. This is a, we call it radiometer. When I give some radioactive source close to it, you can hear some clicks. And the frequency of the clicks depends on the intensity of radiation. Paweł studies radiation for a living. I asked Paweł about the effect of Chernobyl on his field of study.
22:39Many universities, they closed their department on nuclear energy. Also the industry, we had a lot of companies producing some equipment related to the nuclear industry. They were closed. But for the long term, it was a disaster. This lack of investment has had an impact on today's construction of the plant in Lubietovo-Kopalino. Its critics highlight that there are no Polish companies capable of doing the required work. For now, the plan is that an American supplier will build the reactors and a French company will provide the steam turbines.
23:15Israel and Iran attack some of the most important energy sites in the world. Following the US-Israeli attack on Iran in late February, energy security started hitting the news again. Is this the escalation that could turn the current crisis into a full-blown energy shock? We saw the impact of conflict on nuclear sentiment just a few years ago. In a further, wider escalation of the conflicts in Ukraine, Russia has got off gas supplies to Poland. When Russia invaded Ukraine, public support for the construction of a nuclear power plant in Poland grew from 39 % in 2021 to 75 % in 2022. The Polish organization CBOS has been polling this question since 1987.
23:59This is the highest public support they've ever recorded.
24:07In March, I visited the Polish Minister of Energy, Miłosz Motyka, in a freshly renovated white building that houses his ministry. It felt like a pertinent time to ask him why Poland has decided to fund nuclear power. Poland is the last country in the region that decided to invest in nuclear power. It's true this decision was taken late, but we hope it will be beneficial to the Polish economy in the future. The energy transition requires us to switch to low emission energy, such as nuclear power. The Polish energy mix was previously based on coal, which gave us certain sovereignty and independence.
24:48That's why we need our own nuclear power, a source that will guarantee our energy sovereignty and independence. The nuclear plant gives us a chance not only for a stable energy source and available capacity, but also for an appropriately low price. The consumer price of electricity will be fixed competitively, according to the PEJ, the state company in charge of nuclear power plants. Lower energy prices would certainly be welcome. But polls aren't getting their hopes up just yet. In Lubiotowo-Kopalino, the area where the new power plant is planned to be built, many locals told me they questioned whether construction would happen.
25:31They worry it could become another abandoned project, like Żarnowiec. But the minister assures me this won't happen. We have a very different situation, socially, politically and energetically. From the viewpoint of energy security, this investment is absolutely crucial and necessary. From the social point of view, we have a high support for this investment. And politically, we have a widespread agreement. We have national and debt financing guaranteed. We have the right area guaranteed, as well as the partners who will realize the investment. There's no reason to worry. But my research suggests otherwise.
Read the full transcript
26:16Maximilian told me they were talking about a nuclear power plant in the area when he was at primary school 20 years ago. And I found a PEJ press release from 2014 announcing that Poland's first nuclear power plant would open in 2025. But Marek Wozczyk of the PEJ says the government has invested too much in this new project to not see it through. Too many resources have been committed so far in this investment that we cannot, you know, take a step back. The Polish government will finance 30 % of the estimated€42 billion plant, and the rest will come from loans guaranteed by the Polish state. The European Commission approved Poland's state aid for the plant in December last year.
27:01Wojciech says this approval gave the project a boost. The financial market, the banks, responded widely, so we have even an oversubscription when it comes to the debt potentially available to us. Put simply, he's saying banks see this project as financially viable. There are many battles that need to be won before true construction can begin. Notably, the site needs to secure a permit from the National Atomic Energy Agency to prove the radiation technology is secure. Marek is optimistic the plant will still open in 2036. But the companies providing key elements of the plant are American and French.
27:42I asked Marek how this plant will support a Polish nuclear industry. In the future, our plan is to become an operator of this plant. And we need to educate the so-called white collars who are going to be working in the so-called control rooms. In order to make it happen, we have already established a collaborations agreement with many technical universities in Poland. The Minister of Energy told me that the investment opens up a new chapter in Poland's energy system. For him, the power plant is just the start of Poland's nuclear future. And many, like the physics professor Paweł Olko, are keen to see it happen.
28:25At this stage of development, Poland needs nuclear. So, will the promised power plant meet Poland's energy demands? Will it lead Poland into a nuclear-powered future? Ten years from now, we may have an answer. I'm Zuzana Zaruk, and you've been listening to the documentary on the BBC World Service.
From the publisher
Forty years after Chernobyl, Poland aims to open its first nuclear power plant. Shortly after the disaster, only 30% of Poles supported nuclear power. In 2022, the support hit a record 75%, almost doubling just from the year before, according to public opinion polls. Poland’s nuclear revival attempts to solve several issues at once: it will make Poland more energy-independent, especially in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, but it will also help the country move away from coal per the EU’s climate policies. That’s according to the officials, but what do people living near the new site think about its construction? Journalist Zuza Nazaruk sets out to discover whether the ghosts of Chernobyl still haunt the areas surrounding the spot picked for the new plant.




