In short
Italy’s Catholic faith and regional traditions explored through bread—how bread becomes sacred, communal, and morally meaningful, and how these practices are changing as younger people lose devotion.
Guests/backgrounds
Emiko Davies (BBC World Service host; food writer and cookbook author). Katie Milkman (Wharton behavioral scientist; author of How to Change; appears as framing host). Fabrizia Lanza (Sicilian food researcher, 20 years studying Sicilian/Italian food). Caterina Rizzuto (Sicilian baker making squattucciate for San Giuseppe). Emanuele and Nico Bianucci (brothers running Isse Minanti bakery in Tuscany). Rosanna (helps decode symbolism in Salemi’s bread altars). George (Vieste tour guide). Pasquale “Il Conte” (restaurant owner in Vieste).
Key claims
Bread reverence links faith, community, and tradition; rituals (tearing bread by hand, never wasting it) express respect; festivals redistribute food and reinforce belonging; modernization and youth disengagement threaten continuity.
Notable examples
Lorenzo Lippi’s painting “Jesus, Blessing of the Bread”; Sicilian San Giuseppe altars with ornate breads (e.g., squattuccato); Salemi’s church-shaped bread altar and “101 dishes”; Vieste’s Sant’Antonio blessed loaves shared with friends, eaten by hand, followed by fireworks.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOSetting the Scene in Tuscany
1:06 to 1:17
Emiko Davies begins her documentary in a quiet church in Tuscany.
“Listen to choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast or wherever you listen.”
The Significance of Bread
1:17 to 3:02
Exploring the cultural and spiritual meanings of bread in Italy.
“I'm currently inside the Church of San Miniato.”
Rituals Surrounding Bread
3:02 to 3:47
Discussing the rituals and communal aspects surrounding bread consumption.
“Bread has taken on meaning in almost all corners of life here.”
Celebrating St. Joseph's Day
3:47 to 4:21
The traditions and significance of St. Joseph's Day in Sicily.
“bread is a life it's to friendship to love And if you follow the trail of breadcrumbs, you can begin to understand how religion in Italy is changing.”
Baking Special Biscuits
4:21 to 6:07
Meeting a family making traditional sweets for the feast of St. Joseph.
“Tomorrow, the 19th of March, Sicilians celebrate St.”
The Art of Making Squattucciate
6:07 to 6:39
Insight into the preparation of a local Sicilian biscuit.
“a flat biscuit with a sweet dried fig filling and ornate lace-like designs over the top.”
The Loss of Traditions
6:39 to 7:37
Discussion on the fading customs of bread-making among youth.
“You know, her body feels it at the end of the day.”
Historical Context of Bread in Sicily
7:37 to 8:39
Exploring the historical significance of bread during famines in Sicily.
“but also the community is not going to be coming together like it was when she was young.”
Food, Religion, and Magic
8:39 to 9:50
Examining the interplay of food, religion, and ancient rituals in Italian culture.
“And then when religion came in, food was a way to thank God and to understand the sacred value of life and the preciousness of life.”
Baking Bread in Tuscany
9:50 to 10:25
Emiko visits a bakery in Tuscany to explore local baking traditions.
“But there's not a moment when it starts and a moment where it ends.”
Show all 15 chapters
Superstitions and Sacredness of Bread
10:25 to 12:46
Discussing the cultural superstitions related to bread in Italian life.
“I've just arrived at the home of two friends of mine, Emanuele and Nico Bianucci.”
Harvest and Miracles
12:46 to 14:01
The significance of harvesting and the miraculous nature of bread production.
“but it would also be considered basically blasphemous to throw away your bread.”
The Sacred Art of Bread Baking
14:01 to 16:17
Explore the spiritual significance and traditions surrounding bread making.
“They're tapping the bottom of the loaves just to see if they're properly cooked.”
Cultural Bread Celebrations in Italy
17:34 to 28:03
Delve into the traditions of San Giuseppe and St. Anthony bread celebrations in Italy.
“I'm Emiko Davies, and for this edition of Heart and Soul, I'm exploring Italy's Catholic faith through its many breads.”
The Spirituality of Bread in Italian Culture
28:03 to 29:12
Explore the deep connection between bread and Italian identity, faith, and evolving traditions.
“But a simple loaf of bread has such immense power here that it's hard to imagine a time in which it won't connect the Italian people to their faith.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30Join Wharton Professor Katie Milkman, an award-winning behavioral scientist and author of the best-selling book How to Change, as she shares true stories from Nobel laureates, authors, athletes and everyday people about why we do the things we do and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. Each episode covers the latest research in behavioural science and dives into themes like the power of self-control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings and why starting over can feel so hard. Listen to choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast or wherever you listen.
1:17Emiko Davies:I'm currently inside the Church of San Miniato. This is the little Tuscan town where I live, just outside of Florence. It's very, very quiet. There's only a couple people in here. I'm on my way to the Museum of the Duomo, which is just next door. one of my favourite religious paintings is in there and I wanted to take you to see it.
1:48Emiko Davies:So the painting I wanted to show you is a Lorenzo Lippi painting. He was a Florentine artist of the 1600s. It's titled Jesus, Blessing of the Bread. And it's a very, very simple painting. There's Jesus Christ wearing a red gown and a blue robe. And the angel is presenting him with this loaf of bread on a silver tray. Just a really ordinary, round, country-style loaf. You can see a little peak of the white crumb. It's like this really essential, very rustic, basic food. is perfectly elevated to something revered and sacred.
2:45This is the documentary from the BBC World Service with me, Emiko Davies, a food writer and cookbook author. For Heart and Soul, exploring personal approaches to spirituality around the world, I'm touring my adopted home of Italy and the Catholic faith by eating lots of bread. Bread was always there. It was something to thank the gods for. Bread has taken on meaning in almost all corners of life here. Beyond the act of Holy Communion, where it symbolises the body of Christ, it embodies the Italian values of community, tradition and quality.
3:30reverence for bread is practiced at daily meals and rituals
3:33Emiko Davies:the way to eat this bread is you have to rip it apart with your hands you're not allowed to cut it religious festivals elevate bread to something far beyond mere food for me bread is a life it's to friendship to love And if you follow the trail of breadcrumbs, you can begin to understand how religion in Italy is changing. These celebrations are relics of a world that is changing very, very fast.
4:15My journey begins in Sicily, where many of Italy's strongest bread traditions remain. I'm driving to the west of the island, where coastal mountains fade away to lush fields. Tomorrow, the 19th of March, Sicilians celebrate St. Joseph, or San Giuseppe. We're currently in the middle of Lent, so no meat is allowed, but instead local communities will construct altars laden with greens and decorative breads. My first stop is the town of Salaparuta, where specialty biscuits are being prepared for the feast.
4:49Emiko Davies:We're in an incredible landscape, basically on a hilltop, completely surrounded by vineyards. Very, very green, very beautiful. I think we're about to meet the whole family who run this winery here, and we're going to see somebody making these beautiful breads for the San Giuseppe altars. My name is Katia, and this is my family.
5:28Emiko Davies:This is Caterina Rizzuto. She's been making these squattucciate for a long time. She started as a hobby, as a passion, and now continues making them. This impasto is farina, sugna and zucchero. It's a really simple dough made with lard, flour and sugar. So she has the fig dough rolled into snakes to create the shape that she wants. And in this case, she's making a palm leaf. Most Sicilian towns have their own unique bread to celebrate San Giuseppe. Here, it's squattuccato, a flat biscuit with a sweet dried fig filling and ornate lace-like designs over the top. She's got a little box of tools here.
6:19Emiko Davies:Oh, questi sono quelli per la ceramica. They look like tools for ceramics.
6:28San Giuseppe, St. Joseph, is the patron saint of her village here. And so for her, this is a way to thank San Giuseppe. I mean, this is a sacrifice for her because she spends from morning till night. You know, her body feels it at the end of the day. So it is sort of a sacrifice that she does to San Giuseppe.
6:54Katia has been sitting with us watching her mother
6:57Emiko Davies:and we were just chatting about how many people actually know how to make these.
7:09young people have sort of lost the the sense of devotion that you know traditionally people have
7:16Emiko Davies:that her mother has they've lost the sense of gratitude and like wanting to devote time
7:27Emiko Davies:She's a bit sad about this because in 10 or 15 years you're going to lose these kind of traditions completely. People are not going to know even how to make them, but also the community is not going to be coming together like it was when she was young.
7:45San Giuseppe's Day is celebrated across all of Italy normally as Father's Day, But in Sicily, it has special significance. During the Middle Ages, this island suffered a prolonged drought and devastating famine, and Sicilians are said to have prayed to San Giuseppe for protection. When the rains eventually came and they could eat again, the island promised to honour him with a feast.
8:11The south of Italy in general is a little bit less developed, let's say, compared to the north. So possibly this has helped preserve some traditions longer. My name is Fabrizia Lanz. I am a Sicilian. I live in Sicily and I've been researching Sicilian and Italian food since 20 years. Before religions came in, you had a relation with the whole world or underworld through magic. And then when religion came in, food was a way to thank God and to understand the sacred value of life and the preciousness of life. In Sicily, where the Industrial Revolution never arrived, you always depend on the climate, on the weather, on what happens.
9:08And this creates a very specific mentality in farmers. this relation with the other is very constant because you can't control all the elements so rains earthquakes or whatever happens is something above you and your life depends on these elements this is where the magic and the religious part gets in to the food what's interesting in Sicily is that still you have traces of these pagan rituals, which are obviously overdressed with Catholicism or other religions approaches. But there's not a moment when it starts and a moment where it ends. I would say that progress and the fact that young people are less interested in all of this, this is what is going to abruptly dismiss this type of belief.
10:14Although many don't have the same depth of belief today, Italy's spiritual connection to bread remains in small, embedded, everyday activities, something I often bear witness to back in my home region of Tuscany, 700-odd kilometres north of Sicily.
10:35Emiko Davies:I've just arrived at the home of two friends of mine, Emanuele and Nico Bianucci. They're two brothers and they run a bakery called Isse Minanti. Emanuele has been up since about 5am but he's about to put his sourdough bread in the oven so I'm here to try and catch that.
11:00Emiko Davies:Emanuele is preparing the loaves of rye bread at the moment, scooping it up with a bench scraper and then they go into tins.
11:16Emiko Davies:the tradition of baking bread what does this tradition mean for you so the tradition for us is that it's like we have a big responsibility the people think about the bread like something necessary for the life i think a lot of the reverence for bread across italy comes out in some of the daily practices, some of them maybe a little bit superstitious. For example, you know when you come home and you put your bag of groceries on the kitchen table and perhaps the loaf of bread that you've bought rolls out of the bag and it might be upside down. Something like that would drive my husband crazy. Because bread is considered so sacred, placing it upside down would be disrespectful.
12:06Emiko Davies:respectful, it's equivalent to like turning your back on God.
12:15Emiko Davies:Manuela just recounted that his nonna, if a slice of bread fell on the floor, she would kiss it before putting it back on the table. You'll often find bread with a cross over it, so sort of scored into the bread. And that is like the baker's way of praying for that bread to come out so that it will feed a family. And then another really important thing is that bread should never be wasted. Throwing away some old bread, I mean, aside from it, that was incredibly wasteful, but it would also be considered basically blasphemous to throw away your bread. Even the breadcrumbs on a tablecloth would have been swept up.
12:57In the past, the harvest that all the people made was the food that you have for the next year. Now we don't remember that you lost the meaning of the harvest.
13:11Emiko Davies:We're just waiting for the bread to finish baking. The first batch of loaves went in about 50 minutes ago, so they're nearly ready to come out. Why do you think bread is so important in Italian religious life? The bread is so religious for Italy because from the beginning of our history, the grain and the wine are the main theme of our tradition. I think that there is always a link with the place that you live and the product that the agriculture gives to you. We're opening the oven door. It's beautiful. Look at them.
14:09Emiko Davies:They're tapping the bottom of the loaves just to see if they're properly cooked. You need the hollow sound. The agriculture, it's the only thing that you plant one and you harvest more than one. It's bigger than you. And that must have seemed miraculous for humans when we discovered we could do something like that. And probably it's that, that in the past, probably when you have less knowledge, it's a link with a miracle. Yeah. Each harvest is miraculous, isn't it? Yeah. Emanuela has to put some more wood into the oven so that it can come back up to the right temperature. Now the oven door is closing.
15:03Emiko Davies:And Emanuela makes the sign of the cross as he closes the door and he gives a little laugh when he does that. I'm going to ask him a bit more about that when he comes back.
15:22Emiko Davies:He does the sign of the cross when he closes the oven door because making bread is something very sacred and this bread is going to go through a sacred transformation.
15:36So a friend of his told him that her nonna, her grandfather,
15:41Emiko Davies:would do this little laugh as he closed the door to bake his bread as a sign of good fortune and good luck with the bread. Come on, come on.
15:57This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.
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17:38I'm Emiko Davies, and for this edition of Heart and Soul, I'm exploring Italy's Catholic faith through its many breads. It's now the day of San Giuseppe. I've travelled east to Salemi, a town famous for its bread altars, and it really takes a whole village to make this happen.
17:59Emiko Davies:There's this huge archway as you enter the town made with bay leaf and garlands of oranges and lemons and completely decorated by different shaped breads. There are loads of people arriving already to see the altars, and we're going to make our way down the main street. St. Joseph happens to be on the 19th of March, so it's right in the middle of the changing of the season. Sicilian food expert Fabrizia Lanza again. Pre-Christian days, it started like a nymph to birth, to abundance, to harvest and to all of this. With Catholicism and Christianism, it became also a way to control and verify how the community was doing.
18:51Traditionally, San Giuseppe altars were constructed in people's homes. A family that had recovered from hardship or illness that year and wanted to give thanks would hold the feast privately. Along with the San Giuseppe breads, they would serve 101 dishes and invite three poor children from the village to eat with them. They represent the Holy Virgin, Jesus and Joseph, and they will be served by the owner of the altar. By feeding the three poor kids of a village, you would check upon three families and eventually help them, support them. Today in Salemi, several public altars are constructed, and the feast is attended by the entire town.
Read the full transcript
19:37St. Joseph was a way to redistribute the food among people that didn't have enough. Now this is obsolete. So there's a new reading of the feast. Everybody contributes now to the communal table. It's a way of being together.
19:58Emiko Davies:Yeah, this is like the town hall. This is where one of the associations have made an altar. it's made with a with a frame of wood and it's decorated with hundreds hundreds of tiny little bread sculptures there are rosettes there are fish there are angels there's an eagle peacocks and then behind this decorative frame is another altar where you find the pane de santi which are the sort of the bigger bread pieces. And those ones look like bunches of wheat. And then in front of all of this, there's a table, a beautifully set table with three seats, three plates, a jug of wine and some glasses. The three seats here are meant for three people who are going to represent the Holy Family.
20:54Rosanna helped construct the church-shaped altar and helps me to deconstruct some of the religious symbolism baked into the bread.
21:05On either side of the front of the church, there's a sun and a moon, and that represents the universe. There's also a peacock, which is a symbol of beauty. There are also symbols of the crucifixion of Christ. So you have the ladders, you have a hammer and nails, you have the crown of thorns.
21:31I asked her, why 101 dishes? Is there a significance to this number? And she said, 101 is an unthinkable amount. It's just a way to say many, many things. At one point, you might have had only one dish at home. So imagine sitting down to a supper and having 101. At midday, the town of Salemi gathers in front of the altar.
21:53Emiko Davies:Just squeezed our way through the front to the front of the crowd. There are the three. They're all wearing different gowns. There's a white gown, a pink gown and a brown gown. Two boys and one girl, all different ages. That's the priest holding a copy of the Bible. He's going to be blessing the supper as well before everything starts. He's asking the kids, are you hungry? Are you hungry? There's only 101 dishes to come now.
22:26The priest blesses the meal and the feast can begin.
22:31Emiko Davies:No, I don't know how they're going to eat 101 dishes.
22:38Emiko Davies:The first dish is coming through. It's a dish of oranges. Every now and then they're shouting viva and either the name of San Giuseppe or Maria or Jesus. The next dish is coming through. They look like pulpette, so they're the vegetable fritters. And the children are eating and everyone's taking photos. I bet this is the dish that the kids are going to appreciate. Three dolci, so three little pastries. The wine has been miraculously transformed into Coca-Cola. There's canolo, which looks like it's stuffed with ricotta. Handing out the leftovers to people in the crowd that the children are choosing.
23:15Emiko Davies:There's a cake and then there's a little fried dough that they do for San Giuseppe. The lady in front of me is getting all the goods. She's got a canola. This is dish number five, I think. Viva San Giuseppe. The kids seem to be holding up really well. They take a little slice out of something, a little nibble out of another thing. Another polpetta. And this one has got artichokes in it. It's called a torta salata. So it's like a puff pastry filled with vegetables and egg. Wild fennel, porridge from the mountains. and a piece of bread with some mayonnaise and an olive on the top. What would that be?
23:51Emiko Davies:A little square of frittata and deviled eggs? Or, you know, half-boiled eggs? Like another frittata, another frittata. Oh gosh, I've lost count.
24:07Further north and a few months later, I'm now in the fishing town of Viesta in Puglia. On the 13th of June, they celebrate St. Anthony, or Sant 'Antonio, one of their most loved saints. St.
24:20Emiko Davies:Anthony is patron saint of a lot of things, actually. He's the patron saint of children, of lost things, lost souls even, the patron saint of fireworks and of fishermen. So I think also here in Vieste, he has always been a really important saint because fishing has traditionally been one of the most important industries.
24:42The day stems from the legend of a poor woman whose son got stuck in a well. She prayed to Sant 'Antonio to save him and in return promised to, yes, bake bread for the whole town. Today, locals attend a series of masses in honour of Sant 'Antonio.
25:05My name is George. I live in Viesta and work as a tour guide. And Sant 'Antonio is called in Italy taumaturgo. Taumaturgo meaning that he's a saint that made several graces every day. For this reason he's very, very loved by the inhabitants. Bakers here produce thousands of loaves, which are blessed by the priest and shared out amongst friends, family and even strangers. We can share this bread inside our family. is like a ritual and as a prayer. And it is used to show friendship, love for a special and particular person.
25:53Emiko Davies:We've managed to get inside the storage room where the bread is about to get blessed. But everybody else from town is actually standing outside waiting for a loaf of bread. We get to have a sneak peek of what's happening here behind the closed doors. The smell is incredible. It's that smell of freshly baked bread. Very intense.
26:18Emiko Davies:There's the priest coming in now. He's got his robes and he's got a little bowl of holy water.
26:37Emiko Davies:We've just come out of the church and not far we've stopped at a restaurant to have a bit of aperitivo. And the owner of the restaurant, Pasquale, who's better known as Il Conte, the Count, has just offered to share his Sant 'Antonio bread with us.
26:58Emiko Davies:So the way to eat this bread is you have to rip it apart with your hands. you're not allowed to cut it. And when you get a piece of this bread from somebody, you have to eat it.
27:19The scent of freshly baked and newly blessed bread is soon overwhelmed by another distinctive smell, gunpowder, as the full-bellied townspeople take to the streets for a procession with a firework finale.
27:36Emiko Davies:On the horizon I can see all lit up the statue of St. Anthony that's being brought from the church of San Francesco where we were this morning. This day started with a simple and humble loaf of bread and it's finishing with this really ornate celebration.
28:03an attachment to and reverence for bread is baked into italian identity just as the catholic faith is but bread culture is evolving and in 30 years it's hard to say what these traditions will look like the conditions that created them poverty less scientific understanding and a mostly agrarian economy don't exist in the same way anymore. But a simple loaf of bread has such immense power here that it's hard to imagine a time in which it won't connect the Italian people to their faith.
28:39I think things are changing a lot, but definitely people need some sort of spirituality to make sense of things. I mean, change is life. We just need to find new creative ways to incorporate some meaning in what we do. That's what we need to do.
29:11This edition of Heart and Soul from the BBC World Service was presented by me, Emiko Davies and produced by Jude Shapiro. It was a Peanut and Crumb production.
29:46day people about why we do the things we do and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. Each episode covers the latest research in behavioral science and dives into themes like the power of self-control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings, and why starting over can feel so hard. Listen to choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast or wherever you listen. Over a matter of Ellie M.
From the publisher
To Italians, bread is life. With 250 varieties across the country, it’s eaten with almost every meal. Its importance speaks to national values of community, tradition, quality and - above all - religion.
Australian-Japanese food writer Emiko Davies takes a tasty journey into the spiritual significance of bread in Italy, her adopted home. In the west of Sicily, residents honour Saint Joseph by constructing intricate sculptural breads, adorning altars with baked symbols, and staging a ritualised feast attended by the entire community. On the coast of Puglia, locals queue to receive blessed loaves in celebration of Saint Anthony. Finally, with food historian Fabrizia Lanza, she reflects on the origins of religious superstitions surrounding bread, and what the nation's diverse culinary traditions tell us about faith in Italy today.
Presenter: Emiko Davies Producer: Jude Shapiro Executive Producer: Jack Howson Production Coordinator: Ieva Sabaliauskaite
A Peanut & Crumb production for BBC World Service




