Bringing India's daughters back home

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1:00the BBC app. Find out more at bbc.com slash unlimited. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

1:14Estás escuchando The Fifth Floor. The Fifth Floor.

1:26This is The Fifth Floor. at the heart of global storytelling with BBC journalists from all around the world. I'm your host, Farhanak Amidi.

1:42In India, official figures suggest that one in three women experienced domestic violence. In 2023, police registered over 130 ,000 cases of marital abuse, and more than 6 ,000 women were killed in disputes relating to dowries. Despite these high numbers, societal attitudes to domestic abuse are changing only very slowly in the country, with families often reluctant to be seen to be interfering in a daughter's marriage. Now, a new short film is setting out to push the pace. Geeta Pandey, Women and Social Affairs Editor for BBC India, is with me in the Fifth Floor Studio. Geeta, welcome to the Fifth Floor.

2:31It's great to have you with us. Thank you very much. So tell me about this film. What happens in it? You know, it's a film called Band Baja Bitya, which is the Hindi for a wedding band and daughter. And it's a promotional film. It's an advertising film. So it's essentially like it's a very short, three and a half minute long film. But the message it conveys is like really punchy. It starts off with this father. He's in his little chemist store and he receives a phone call. And you can make out that he is, you know, his face falls. And you can make out that he's talking to his daughter. And he says, what, again?

3:15And he puts the phone down. And then once he goes home, he talks to his family and he talks to his friends and they all tell him, OK, you know, this is what happens. Right. You've married off your daughter. She has to adjust in her marital home. Right. Because in India, marriage is the be all and end all. Right. I mean, you know, we are told from the time a girl is born that, you know, that she is basically getting readied for the marriage. ultimate, that's meant to be the ultimate responsibility of the parents, the ultimate duty. So they all tell him that, okay, she'll adjust, she'll adjust, and you know, everything will be fine.

3:55Maybe she'll have a baby and things will be okay. You know, and people tell him that your responsibility is ended because she's now married, she's in her in-law's home, you know, you don't need to worry about it. But he refuses to take that suggestion. And he says, I can't abandoned my daughter and he goes to get her to rescue her and when he's on his way he comes across a wedding band and because he had sent his daughter with a lot of fanfare accompanied by a wedding band to her in-law's house so he says okay you know he hires them

4:44And he goes to the in-laws' house, to her husband's house, with the wedding band playing celebratory tunes, and brings back his daughter.

5:03So tell me, why is this band, the wedding band, significant? What does it represent for people? See, the wedding band is meant to be something like, I mean, you're announcing to the world that you are doing your duty, you're getting your daughter married. And it's also it's meant to be celebratory, right? You know, they play very happy tunes and they accompany the groom to the wedding venue, then they accompany the bride and the groom to their house. So it's very symbolic, right? And here him hiring it is to basically to announce to the world that I am not ashamed. I am not. The shame is not mine that or my daughter's that she has to leave her matrimonial home, which is very abusive.

5:51So he's trying to tell the world that I am not ashamed. I have come back. Loud and proud. Exactly. Loud and proud. Right. I've come back, you know, with the same pomp and show to get my daughter back. You know, so he's also he's kind of giving out a message to other parents, to parents across India. Don't be ashamed. You know, if you have to go and retrieve your daughter from an abusive home, just bring her back. There is no shame in it. The shame is the abusers. Shame is the abusers. Yeah. You know, it's not your shame. And it's exactly because of that that women don't get the support that they need.

6:33You know, that's the biggest problem in traditional societies. The support has to come from the parental family. And if the parental family washes their hands off and says, OK, for us, this is over and we are not involved anymore. Where does a woman like that go? Right. Who's got no one to support her? I mean, how do you actually survive? And that's also that's the main reason why a lot of women continue to stay in abusive relationships and in abusive homes. So this short film is quite radical for the Indian society, isn't it? It is actually quite radical, right? I mean, considering it's an advertising film, which was meant to promote a product.

7:16I'm just curious, what product did they want to promote? It's actually, it's a company that makes steel rods or metal rods that go into construction. So basically, yeah, when I spoke to the film's director, he told me that what this company had told him is that we just want to show strength, strength of character. And he said, I thought, OK, instead of doing a boring film on, you know, showing a house which is strong, we wanted to show that people who live within these homes are strong. We wanted to show their strength. And that's why they made this film. So back to the discussion we're having about it being radical.

8:03Yes. So what they told me was that the reason why they, you know, that they chose this film, because they wanted to also show a mirror to the society to, you know, reflect it back to them that, look, what you're doing is not right. Your daughters are just as important for you as your sons are, right? And it is a radical idea in India because, you know, like you see that women right from the time they are born until the day they die, you know, they face all sorts of discrimination at different stages of their lives. So, you know, to put that kind of front and center is quite an important thing to do.

8:48But, you know, you'll be surprised at how warmly this film has been received. Tell me about the reaction. Yeah. You know, so the videos of the film went viral. It's a short film, so it's been watched like millions and millions of times. People were all watching it. There were a lot of people who were leaving comments under the film that had been shared by the company and by the main actor and the director. and where people were leaving messages talking about, women were talking about how their parents or their families had supported them. There were men who were talking about how they had supported their daughters or how they had told their daughters that come what may, they will remain their daughters and they will jump in, you know, at the first sign of distress.

9:39There were people who were putting out their stories. Also, the actor told me that he was mobbed at an airport by about 20 people all trying to tell him stories, telling him that how much they love the film. He's a very well-known actor, right, who has worked in some really very famous and very popular Bollywood films. And he said, this is the first time it's happened to be in my life that, you know, by playing this lovable father, he has won so much affection, you know. And that was like really heartwarming to see that there are so many people who may not come out and openly talk about things, but people do think about these things.

10:22It shows that there's an appetite for this discussion and for change. Exactly. And if you look at it, I mean, you know, the film itself is inspired by a few similar real life events. And I spoke to one of the women who had been rescued by her father. And that was probably the first reported case a few years back where she was in a really bad marriage. And her father, you know, the videos of that actual retrieval had also gone viral. This father that you're talking about, the real life father, Prem Gupta. Tell me about that video that went viral, the real video. How did he go and retrieve his daughter?

11:01Yeah, actually, the video that went viral shows the daughter coming out with a suitcase and she's dragging it outside the house of her former husband. And she comes out and there are people setting off firecrackers and there is a band playing.

11:28He actually did it with a real band? He did it actually with a real band and he had firecrackers. I mean, there were people who had. So it's like, you know, when the groom's family comes for the wedding, they come with what is known as a barat or a wedding procession. Right. So they come accompanied by a lot of people singing, dancing, dancing to the band and setting off firecrackers. He replicated all of that. So there were like dozens of people, a few dozen people who had come as part of this procession and they were seen leaving, dancing alongside the band. And then there were setting off firecrackers and she comes out and she said that when she was dragging her suitcase out.

12:14And you can see that, you know, in the end, as she walks up to the camera and she smiles, right, because for her. And she told me that my father is my hero, you know. I mean, he's my hero, too. I love Brahm Gupta. He's everybody's hero. Tell me, Geeta, what is the significance of the role of fathers in situations like this? Why is the father the person that they are highlighting in this message? You know, India is a very patriarchal society, right? So we have, so a lot of the important decisions are taken by men in all our families. And this is a very traditional, regular middle class family here that's been shown in the film.

13:01So here, who has to take the decision? Because women on their own will not be able to take that kind of decision, right? Because they need support. You know, he is the breadwinner. He can actually come out and say that, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I mean, most men can do it, right? But the thing is that most choose not to do it. Whereas he stands out because he does this little extraordinary thing. It's made an impact on everyone. And I think it's a message that with time and, you know, if you hammer it hard enough, it will percolate to a much wider audience. Thank you so much, Gita. Thank you.

13:43You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service. Thank you.

14:26This is The Fifth Floor and I'm Farina Kami Di.

14:33Back in February, Joy, a Kenyan woman who was a 19-year-old student at the time, discovered that she was at the centre of a viral video which had been circulating on the social media platform TikTok. In it, she's approached by a man who says he's from Russia, and their interaction is secretly filmed by him. Several other similar clips of women were shared widely online. It's reported the man had been promoting himself online as a so-called pickup coach, and his content was extremely popular. But for many of the women, these videos have had real-life consequences. Munga Ngige from the BBC's Disinformation Unit has been reporting on this story, and he joins me right now from Nairobi.

15:23Munga, thanks for joining us. Welcome to the fifth floor. Thank you for having me. So tell me, how did you and your team become aware of this trend, and why did you decide it was something you wanted to investigate?

15:37Geeta Pandey:So this was something really big, and it was really hard to miss because it broke out around Valentine's Day here in Kenya. So everyone online was talking about how there's a man who was in Kenya and he was going about in malls and really public places and meeting women. And somehow these videos had ended up online. So there were accounts on TikTok and on X. This really funny, sometimes suggestive and really, as you say, misogynistic comments or captions about these women really sharing the videos again. So because our team is really interested in that online world and offline effects and what was apparent to us at that point was secret filming.

16:21Geeta Pandey:So we said we might look at it a bit more to see what we find there. And who is behind this? Who is this guy? It was a man who had a clear Russian accent and was approaching women and introducing himself as Yaitzetslav. basically saying, hi, my name is Yatsaslav. I'm from Russia. What's your name? And then the interaction will go on from there. So you were able to actually speak to one of the victims. Her name is Joy. Tell us a bit more about her story. She actually became aware that her video was circulating online a year ago. Yes? Yes. So Joy told us she met this man about March last year, that's 2025, she was standing on the side of a street in Nairobi waiting for a friend when a man approached her and talked to her, asked her name, and then so exchanged contacts, and then they planned to meet later in the evening.

17:25Geeta Pandey:In the evening, they were in touch again, and this man sent her a location of where they could meet. And when she saw that it was actually an apartment where he was inviting her to. She got a little bit suspicious and then her friend group told her that it was probably not a good idea to go and meet him. So that was the extent of the interaction. And she forgot about it and moved on. And Mungai, tell me about the format of these videos. Why is it that these women get so much hate when these videos are published? So the videos are pretty straightforward. So it's a man who's recording, so approaches a woman on the street, says hi, introduces himself and then compliments her, saying something like, I love how you look.

18:11Geeta Pandey:Yeah, so some of the videos immediately jump to these women meeting this guy at what looks like various apartments around Nairobi and the coastal city of Mombasa. So he'd be inviting them into their house and then giving them a beverage and playing some music on his stereo system on the TV and then basically just dancing with them. These women really got a lot of backlash because the implication or maybe what these videos are insinuating was that these women went and had sex or got intimate with this man in his apartment. What is this guy teaching men? Why does he call himself a so-called pickup coach?

18:51Geeta Pandey:So when we looked into him a bit more, we found out that he actually works as a pickup artist who says that he's been at it from about 15 years, just teaching men how to approach women. And we're able to see that on his website, he was promoting a book with a title like Yachetslav and Meeting Women, Aged 40 Plus. And then he was selling these books for, I think, around 250 rubles, basically saying that he has experience meeting women. And from reading his book, he can teach other men how to approach women and get intimate with them. So this is how he's monetizing his content. Yes. So from the evidence that we saw, he would be selling the book.

19:35Geeta Pandey:But the Ghanaian authorities looked into it a bit more. And from what they reported was that he was posting these videos onto a Telegram channel and then where he was asking users to pay to access more intimate videos of him and these women. And you mentioned the Ghanaian authorities. They basically stepped in and revealed this guy's identity as Vladislav. What else did they say? The Ghanaian authorities released his passport, so basically said that his name was Vladislav Lulkov and was a 36-year-old Russian man and said that he was being accused of secretly filming women and posting these intimate encounters onto a paid social media platform.

20:23What is his background?

20:24Geeta Pandey:So we sort of attempted to build a profile to understand who the man is, and there was some clues into his movements around Kenya especially. So we found that he was indeed in Kenya and in Ghana where he recorded these videos. Russian media sort of paint a very checkered past of him. He had various failed businesses at some point and was incarcerated at some point as well and then sort of rebranded into a pickup artist which he has been doing for some time now. So tell me, what kind of laws and restrictions exist in countries like Kenya and Ghana about filming people without consent and in secret?

21:08Geeta Pandey:So both countries have sort of similar laws around this issue. In Kenya, filming in public is not really an offence in itself. The offence comes in how the footage is used. But the lawyers we did speak to said that the The Constitution of Kenya 2010 guarantees rights to privacy. And there's also laws that govern how data is collected and how it's going to be used and stored. Also Ghana have a similar law as well, basically saying that filming and distributing these intimate images was where this man went afoul of the law. So as social media channels on TikTok, YouTube and Telegram, where these videos might have first appeared, have been taken down.

21:56But the videos took on a life of their own. After that, what happened?

22:01Geeta Pandey:A couple of people downloaded the videos and were re-uploading them onto their own social profile, which is where they just gained a life of their own and just came to wider knowledge. And people can make money out of that, even if it's not their original content. We spoke to Kelvin, who's a content creator in Kenya. He's 22. So it told us that he became aware of the videos and then downloaded them from YouTube, from a Russian name channel on YouTube, and then sort of had them on his phone and uploaded one of them on Sunday as he went to church. and about two or three hours later when he was coming out, his phone was blowing up with notifications because the video had gone completely viral.

22:47Geeta Pandey:So we're talking about he told us a million views and some 3 ,000 comments in just under three hours in the period where he was in charge and out, which was pretty exciting for him at that point. So is it clear how these videos are filmed in secret? What do they film it on? We sort of built the evidence to suggest that it could be being filmed on smart glasses. First of all, in some of the videos, you can clearly see that this man's arms are free. You can see both his arms. And there's also the way that the women react to him. So they're acting pretty natural. So there's no one stealing quick glances at a camera like you'd expect from someone who was being filmed.

23:30Geeta Pandey:And there's a particular video that we saw as well where he was walking along the streets at night with a woman. So you can see the shadows from the streetlight. You can see that his face is clearly turned towards the woman and his hands are free, which will suggest that his face is where the filming device is. And I think the more incriminating evidence we found or the confirmation that it could be smart glasses came from a photo that we saw of him in a town near Mombasa in Nairobi at the coast where you can see that he's clearly wearing smart glasses. And there has been some backlash from the community in Ghana and Kenya.

24:12Women's groups have shown reaction to these videos, not only the videos, but the comments that these women are receiving, all the misogynistic hate that they are receiving. Can you tell me more about that as well?