Chasing the Wimbledon dream

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1:00Hamish Stewart:Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC Conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. And this time, it's with those trying to make it in tennis.

1:23Hamish Stewart:If, like me, you love sport, then there is plenty to enjoy right now with the Football World Cup. cycling's Tour de France and tennis at Wimbledon. Here in Britain, 23-year-old Arthur Ferry has become the surprise breakout star at London's Grand Slam tournament. Few knew his name until his impressive run, which has brought him fame and no doubt a welcome payday. Runs like this for players ranked outside the top 100, such as Ferry, are rare. And that's why we're discussing today the emotional and financial challenges on the professional tennis circuit away from the spotlight. So let's hear from two players.

2:05Hamish Stewart:Hamish Stewart from Scotland, who's ranked in the top 300. And firstly, Jamie Loeb from the US. She's currently ranked outside the top 1 ,000. Talent aside, what's also required for one year on the circuit is plenty of money. If you want to do it the right way, definitely at least$100 ,000. having a coach, having proper training, treatment, being able to go and travel and play tournaments. I would be in a similar ballpark. I don't think quite my budget's in that territory, so it's sort of like you need to make some sacrifices for certain things. But yeah, to do it right is not a cheap sport, that's for sure.

2:49Hamish Stewart:So that's spending$100 ,000. That's before you make any income. You've been at a pretty high point in the rankings in the top 132 in the world and you're at a lower point now are there times you just make a loss when you're competing at a tournament yeah for sure and there's been parts of my career where I was profiting a bit a lot of times just breaking even just because of the expenses and then at a loss and sometimes you kind of know that going into a certain tournament that you're there to hopefully gain points to get your ranking up to then get into bigger tournaments and then that will set you up and then there's some weeks where you're like oh I have a little bit of cushion but I feel like it's more weeks breaking even or at a loss than really gaining.

3:38Hamish Stewart:And on a practical level then let's take an example of a tournament if you lose the opening match does what you get for one match pay even your hotel bill? Most of the time no and that's why for me a lot of times I try to stay with host families when I'm playing tournaments so I can at least save money in that regard but then you have then you have 10 more expenses to catch up on so yeah if you see some of the first round lost paychecks sometimes it doesn't even get you a dinner. I think it's very hard to get ahead at times as well like if you have a great week and maybe make some money but then you lose first round the next week that's that almost gobbled up and it also brings around like a little bit of pressure as well right like um not only have you lost first round you haven't gained any points but you've also lost money in the week so it's it really can be deflating sometimes particularly first round exit there has been times i think definitely where it's been in my head in matches but i think maybe maybe slightly less now and jamie you've had a phenomenal college career but of course you had personal issues along the way Can you talk us through that journey?

4:48Yeah, you know, I definitely did have a successful college career in that. Actually, I won NCAAs, which is a big collegiate tournament in the U.S. And that propelled me to getting a main draw wild card to the U.S. Open, which set up a lot of opportunities for me. And I feel early on in my career, actually opposite to Hamish, I didn't feel the financial pressure. I wasn't thinking that way, maybe because I had some cushion, but I just was, it was just like this fresh start and you're on tour. I was playing my best tennis, honestly, when I was not really thinking about money or having to worry. And I feel later on in my career, it's been the opposite where I've dealt with some injuries the past few years.

5:33I lost my father last year and just real life things happen and you have to find a way to support yourself and not getting many opportunities to be visibly seen sponsors not wanting to invest in you as you get older and dealing with injuries and you kind of you feel that pressure so I feel for me later on it's been a lot harder and then it's like you know I'm 31 now that I want to think long term in my life not just the tennis space and what I want to do there, but how am I going to set myself up for life? And you just start thinking about things in a different perspective, which becomes even more harder, honestly, to focus on just playing tennis on the court, because then you're like, how am I going to support this and that?

6:24And, you know, I've definitely struggled with that. And it's been hard to really bounce back from all of these obstacles. But like Hamish has said, you just unfortunately have to start making sacrifices in areas and then kind of hope that you can gain some traction. But yeah, I've been a little bit of at a standstill for quite some time now. Sorry to hear, Jamie. And it's sort of interesting to hear, and I think Jamie makes a great point, like how our journeys have maybe been the other way around. And I just want to say that, yeah, Obviously, winning the NCAA collegiate side, I went to American University as well.

7:03It's obviously an amazing deal. And to get a main draw, US Open wildcard is an amazing achievement. But yeah, my ranking has sort of been steadily getting a little bit better for a while. And hers has maybe gone a little bit up due to some personal issues. And I can imagine that being very tough and having the financial pressure on you. I just want to say as well, just with how mental a sport tennis is as well, people think it's very physical and technical, which of course it is, but it's a hugely mental sport as well. So having this sort of financial weight on your mind, it really can sometimes make a difference in a match.

7:43Hamish Stewart:Hamish, what's been your career highlight so far? My career highlight, I think, would be making the final round of Wimbledon qualifying last year. That's pretty impressive. Just one away from the main draw? Yes, one away. And what is your current career goal then? All four Grand Slams. I'm currently 300 just now and to get into slam qualities, you need to be around 240, 230 in the world and I'd like to play all four of them. Jamie, you've been to the US Open. Tell us what that was like. I've played fortunately all four, but I'm from New York. So U.S. Open is a special place to me just in my backyard.

8:20And my best result was in 2021 where I did qualify on my own for the first time. Ended up losing to Iga on grandstand first round. And the other time I played main draw was against Caroline Wozniacki on Ash. So I've definitely had some. Tough choice. Those are tough choice. Yeah. I know. They couldn't catch me a break. Like the local girls just getting tough, tough draws. But that's also part of it too, like luck of the draw. You know, you get a little break and that can change your career, the prize money. But yeah, US Open is very electric. You know, I love playing here. It's also a little overwhelming because a lot of people come out, but I do love playing in front of a crowd.

9:06So it is a special tournament for me.

9:08Hamish Stewart:Do you play your best tennis, Jamie, when there's attention? Or have you found that your best performances, you think, ah, nobody watched that. I was really good. I love a crowd. I do. I do love a crowd. I think sometimes in the past when I've played the US Open, I've put a little bit more pressure on myself. Maybe Hamish could understand this with just like you're playing in your home country and with everybody, you know, sometimes it'd be a little overwhelming, but I've, I try to use it as like, you know, people are there to support, but yeah, I love a crowd. I'm pretty feisty and fiery when I play.

9:40So I love feeding off of that.

9:41Hamish Stewart:Question to both of you. How do your friends and family see your careers as tennis players and the many many weeks and months that you have to be away this is a loaded question um you know I think one it's really important to surround yourself with people that are supportive of you and your career but also people that are realistic about you and care about you as a person there's so many people that can be in your ear and tell you one thing but it's really important to surround yourself with people that love you, that are going to keep it honest, but also support you and, you know, kind of have that tough love because there's been dips in my career where I've kind of needed that, needed either a reality check or needed that support.

10:24But no one in my family has gone pro in tennis or in anything. So it's like this has been a new experience for them as much as it is for me. And same with my friends. A lot of my friends have played tennis to a certain extent. Some haven't, but they know how much this sport means to me and knows how much I've had to sacrifice from such a young age. And they know, yeah, that this is my life and has been my life. And it's just hard because they can't always relate to the ups and downs to traveling by myself, like how this, like what the pressure feels like. Even too, I've had to, you know, miss, you know, birthday parties and all the, you know, weddings and big events because I'm chasing this dream that isn't forever.

11:12And sometimes, you know, you have to have those hard conversations, but the ones that love me and they understand, it's just, you can never fully relate unless you're also in it. I think as well, it can be quite difficult for someone who's sort of not in the tennis space to relate or not relate, but understand what we have to do, like on a very annual basis, because it's like tennis is like all year round right it starts right at the start of january all the way through to november and there's no breaks and it is quite a niche i think professional sport in that regard because you know i think most sports have seasons and events you shoot for but tennis is just all year round so like jamie was saying the the birthdays the weddings like i just missed a ex-collegiate teammate of mine's wedding like those sacrifices that you need to make you know you really hope your friends and family understand it.

12:08And it sounds like me and Jamie have got a good friends and family around us that can understand that. But yes, sometimes trying to explain to people, oh, yeah, I'm not coming to that or nope, I'm away for the next month. And it's like, oh, OK, you know, those sacrifices can be. Yeah, they can be telling sometimes.

12:26Hamish Stewart:Tennis pros Hamish Stewart from Scotland and Jamie Loeb from the United States. In a moment, we'll hear what it's like from a coach's point of view. I'm James Reynolds. This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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13:58Hamish Stewart:The two players we spoke to talked of the need to surround themselves with people who understand and care about their chosen careers, but who are also capable of tough love. That describes the job of coach perfectly. Many, like our next guests, are former players themselves. They, then, can relate to the mental and physical demands of trying to climb up the rankings. Victoria Belinsky is in Florida. Noelle Van Lottem from Canada joined us from Wimbledon itself. And Michael Lagarso is in Melbourne, Australia. why then would anyone choose to be a coach? Probably through the lack of success as a player or getting anywhere near I wanted to as a player and you learn a lot along the journey and you always have that passion for the game and I guess being able to help players get to a level that I may not have got to and seeing them achieve their goals and I think it's it's the struggle and everything that goes with it to reach that goal.

15:00So whilst we see the success and all the glory, I think it's all the work that goes underneath. I think that's the most rewarding for a coach and knowing you have a contribution to make to players. And I think that's why we coach is being able to get the best out of people.

15:16Hamish Stewart:Victoria in Florida, what were your motivations for becoming a coach? I was a professional player myself. I've been there. I had a female coach all my life and she contributed so much to me to become the person I am today, not just the player, the character. So when I became a coach, I felt like I have all this knowledge and all this background, all this experience, not just on professional side of sport, but also as a character development. And that was my motivation to give it back. Of the two jobs that you've done, tennis player and tennis coach, which is the harder job? Tennis coach. Why is that?

15:57Absolutely a tennis coach. As a tennis player, you are in charge, you are on court, you can do it. As a tennis coach, you can give all you have, you can train your players, but at the end of the day, they are on the court and they have to make it happen.

16:16Hamish Stewart:Noelle, how important is it for you to get on with the player as a human being, not just a tennis player? That's number one, right? I believe that trust is the first element to have a successful partnership with the player. In my case, I am head of women's for Tennis Canada, so I have a little bit more players under my wing. I did coach last year Vicky and Boko with Nathalie Josia together. I believe it's also the environment where you are in. And I think if you have that trust with the player and also with the parents established also a little bit, little by little, then you can do some great work with the player.

16:55Hamish Stewart:Michael, what has been the most rewarding coaching experience you've ever had with a player? You can coach players at all kinds of levels, but definitely the pro level. I think when they qualify for a Grand Slam in a big tournament, especially for the first time, which I've had the pleasure of doing actually at Wimbledon five or six years ago, one of my players qualified for the first time. But it wasn't so much qualifying for the tournament, but they were on a protected ranking and been injured for a long time. Preparation wasn't great. So we're even wondering whether they'd be back at that kind of event again.

17:34And then they qualified. And I think the tears and the emotion that all came out was a build up over a period of three, four years where they're out of the game for two years. That was the most rewarding for me. Not so much the qualified, but the struggle you have with a player over a period of time and the things I guess the public don't see. Players tend to get a lot of criticism when they're not performing at their best, but there are a lot of things as fellow coaches here would know behind the scenes and the conversations you have, which can be quite emotional at times. I think that's what makes the successes even more rewarding.

18:11And for us as coaches, it gets emotional for us as well.

18:15Hamish Stewart:We're all speaking not just during Wimbledon, but during the Football World Cup, where you can see that coaches have a different role there. They stand actively on the sidelines in football, yelling specific instructions. What kind of instructions are you allowed to give in real time to your player? It's changed over the years. Now there is some coaching allowed, which I guess for us coaches is great. We can pass on messages a lot more freely. That's not to say that the players always want those messages, but it's a little bit, you know, I've had experiences where the players have told me to shut up and they'll figure it out themselves.

18:53So I think it depends on who you're coaching. But yeah, that definitely makes a difference. It's not anything radical coaching-wise or tactical. A lot of the time it's just support for the player and getting to trust in the game plan you may have or if there's slight adjustments you might make. But it's more to support the player and give them that reassurance when they're out on the court. For me, it's important to feel that energy together with the player because when you are involved in the game, you really, you're like in a zone with the player and hard to explain, but that's how I feel at least.

19:30At this time, I don't even like anybody like sit next to me and talk. I usually, I was like, please, you know, if you sit to me, don't talk because I feel like I'm so connected, you know, to the player and that energy exchange, I think that's what's important. And I totally agree with my fellow coaches that, you know, the trust is very important and that support. But you can't really teach anything in a match. But what you can do, you can give that energy, you can give that support. And maybe something very small but very powerful, like, you know, keep your energy up, move you around. I mean, that's nothing new, right?

20:08Everybody knows. But in the moment, this is something that the player can catch up really fast and do. And definitely not anything in the way of like technically or, you know, something heavy. Definitely not that. Just energy support. That's how I feel. I feel like I'm with her there on the court and pretty much what would I want to feel from my coach and what I did is the support and maybe very simple, specific one or two word instruction on something that in an emotional stage on the court, you may forget. And that's where the knowing of your player comes really into the play.

20:46Hamish Stewart:How do you motivate, Noël, your players on Team Canada during their games? First of all, it's very important to communicate with the player beforehand, just to know how they would like to be coached. They want a lot of information, they want to be cheered up a lot, or they want just particular slogans. It's also individual, but you need also just to trust yourself as a coach to say very direct information, because you don't have that much time with the player. of in any intense relationship between two individuals no matter the sport no matter the business there might come a time where you both might think we've reached the end of our road together when you sense that happening michael how do you go about that final break or end of relationship i guess through experience you learn that those difficult conversations need to be had and not held off on.

21:41And you get a sense when things are probably coming towards the end. Sometimes there's a lack of communication in certain areas. You could probably definitely sense it on the practice court in terms of whether your messaging is getting through and whether they're the buy-in. And I think, I guess over the years, you learn that those difficult conversations, those open and honest conversations are the ones that need to be had and probably the most uncomfortable. But I think if you have a relationship where you do have that trust and there's that honesty throughout the relationship, I think those conversations become easier and more amicable.

22:17But I think if you can address things quickly, those conversations become a lot, lot easier. And I think at the end of the day, our job as coaches is to facilitate the process for the players and where they want to head. And if there's at any point where myself as a coach doesn't feel like I can have an impact, then I'm probably mature enough now, maybe not in the past, to walk away and perhaps suggest something for the player. I think if you're hoping to keep a job, it might be a little bit different. But I think if there's a trust and an honestness between the two, I think it becomes a lot easier.

22:52You feel that there's no chemistry anymore and you feel it. It's like a relationship. You know that it comes to an end. You sense it or you talk with your player and ask what's going on or you take yourself your own initiative to to end this in the right way and to help maybe the player to find different ways to address their feelings and to move on from there you know i mean in my role it's a little bit different i mean i am there more as a support for the coaches and mentoring the coaches actually so then it's important to look at different views also not only at their point of view but also from the player point of view how hard can it get

23:28Hamish Stewart:Victoria, that process of coach player breakup or ending relationship? Very hard. Very hard. I had to do it. I think that when you work with a player and you become so familiar, it's like a family, you know, and sometimes it's just like in our everyday life, some relationships work and some relationships don't and not because another person is bad or you're bad or something happened. It just you feel that's the time to move forward or to move to different direction, I should say, not even forward necessary, but just different directions. Emotionally, it's absolutely draining. But again, as a coach, you have to be leader in that team.