Embargo and the Cuban spirit

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1:00the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

1:25This is The Fifth Floor, at the heart of global storytelling, with BBC journalists from all around the world. I'm your host, Farnak Amidi.

1:41Last week, the American government charged the former Cuban leader, Raul Castro, with conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals. They accused him of playing a part in the downing of two planes in 1996, which were flying between Cuba and Florida. This comes after months of the U.S. putting increasing pressure on the country. In January, President Trump threatened to impose tariffs on any country who supplied oil to the island, resulting in huge energy shortages ever since, with some parts of the country being without power for 22 hours a day. But Cubans have been living under a strict trade embargo for decades, so they are not unfamiliar with such hardships.

2:31Jose Carlos Cueto Lopez of BBC Mundo is from Cuba. He joined me to talk about what it's like for people living in these challenging circumstances. I first asked him to explain the embargo. The US embargo was imposed in Cuba in the early 60s after Fidel Castro's revolution clashed with key US economic interests on the island. Castro came to power in 1959, and shortly afterward his government became increasingly aligned with the Soviet Union. And this happened in the middle of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet bloc and this created deep mistrust among several US officials back in the days.

3:12Castro then nationalized several industries, including the US oil companies that were operating in Cuba and relations after that quickly deteriorated. In response to that, the United States imposed tough economic sanctions that since then have severely limited Cuba's ability to import goods, the access to foreign currency and to attract foreign investment. I think it's also important to note that although the Cuban government blames most of the country's problems on the embargo, the low productivity and the inefficiencies with the state-run sector have also contributed to the difficult situation that the Cubans are experiencing today.

3:53because when Cuba was relying on the Soviet Union during these first, let's say, two decades of the embargo, the recollection of my parents was that, yes, there was scarcity. It wasn't the most easy country to get by, but essentially you could have a good life quality and the effects of the embargo were not felt that deeply among ordinary Cubans. And Jose, I know that you actually grew up in Cuba until your late teens. What was life like living under sanctions and embargo, like everyday life for normal Cubans and for yourself? So yeah, I lived in Cuba until I was 17. And during my childhood, I have to be fair and say that I think I had a great childhood in terms of, you know, it was a happy one with good memories.

4:45And this Cuban cohesion and solidarity that we like to brag and to highlight about ourselves, that was felt really nicely during my early childhood. But then as I was growing up and I was becoming more aware of the political situation, it was more difficult to face. And that's pretty much why my parents took the decision to leave the country and provide a better future for me and my sister. I was born in 1992, right in the middle of the crisis that is known as the special period. That was after the collapse of the Soviet Union, when the Cuban economy crashed because of its heavy reliance on the Soviet bloc.

5:28and it's estimated that about a third of Cuba's GDP was lost. And when I was born, there were rolling blackouts, just like today. So we used to have electricity for eight hours, and then we had eight hours without any power. And I was so used to the darkness that when my parents asked me, as a baby, where the light was, I would always point to the oil lamp instead of the electric lamp, the oil lamp that was functioning and giving us light in those hours of darkness. Yeah, and back then, what my parents always tell me is that people, they had to get very creative with food to make it last, but according to studies, calorie intake among Cubans dropped dramatically during those years.

6:11I insist, I was lucky. My family had relatives abroad, as many Cubans have. And when they came to visit the auntie of my dad, it was like the event of the year, because it was really the only chance that we could get new clothes or a new pair of shoes. Or chocolate, for instance. Yeah, chocolates, groceries, anything you can imagine. And I have to insist, I was lucky. I remember the food at home was very modest, but I would be lying if I said that I went hungry. But I also have to say that that was because my parents' income, they are doctors. The income wasn't enough, but their patients were incredibly generous.

6:51And many times we were able to eat some protein as chicken, meat, fish, thanks to gifts from their patients and not because we could get that with our own means. And I do remember growing up that many professionals were becoming poorer and that was very visible. For example, many of my elementary and high school teachers, for example, they would bring candy or snacks to sell to their own students to supplement their salaries because they simply couldn't make ends meet. or they would open up spaces of private lessons and they would charge that if they could in US dollars in order to have better guarantees.

7:32So interesting how a lot of what you said actually resonates with me because I grew up in Iran as well, which is a country that has been under sanctions for decades. And my childhood was very similar. Just waiting for someone who comes out from, I don't know, Europe or US and bring you some candy. I remember we had no bananas. The first time I had bananas was like, wow, oh my God, bananas. It was like having an extra Santa Claus. Yeah. Yeah. So over the years, have there been moments that people thought, okay, maybe this time the sanctions will be lifted? Well, in my personal case, I don't have any recollection of that.

8:13And most of the people, I would say that in the beginning, probably they thought that both countries could get to a resolution. But as the decades have gone by, people have lost hope. And in fact, in 1996, the embargo was strengthened and codified, meaning essentially that only the US Congress can vote to lift it and no presidential order can overturn it. Maybe perhaps the closest people came to believe that it actually could end was between 2015 and 2017. That was when measures introduced by the Obama administration relaxed some of the sanctions and Cuba experienced a certain degree of economic opening.

8:52But the hope didn't last very long because when Trump came to power for his first term, he dismantled most of what had been achieved. And Cubans felt as though the country had slipped back into the past once again. And what about regime change? Is that something that people think might happen in Cuba? After nearly 70 years under the same system, I would say that this is no longer really part of the conversation among Cubans. Several generations have grown up knowing nothing else. And then the economic, social and migration crisis are so severe that political change is not at the top of people's priorities right now.

9:30What Cubans want most now is to have better access to food and transportation, the chance to see their relatives again or more often, many family members who have migrated, there are about 1.5 million Cubans who have migrated in the last six years approximately. And I would say that only once those basic needs are met, I believe, is when people will have a fairer opportunity and enough perspective to truly decide and reflect on what they want the Cuba's political future to look like. And Jose, what do Cubans think about the Castros? I mean, is there any way to actually know what they really think and how loyal they are to the Castros and their ideology?

10:19I'm afraid there is no accurate way to know that. And it depends a lot on who you ask. It's also difficult to trust people's answers because after so many years without an organized and cohesive political opposition, the average Cuban does not necessarily have a clear idea of what the alternatives could be. But I would say there are certain values that are often described as revolutionary values that were taught in the schools, that were mentioned by Fidel Castro's long speeches back in the day, that many people continue to share today. Today I'm talking here about generosity, solidarity, love for the homeland, pride in the national culture and respect for most of our national symbols.

11:02I think there is an underlying idea behind the revolution that many Cubans still identify with and want to defend. I have noticed through interviews and talking during my visits to Cuba, to people, that there is a growing exhalation with the way the system has been implemented in recent years. And I also think many Cubans are beginning to question whether the price of defending the ideas of the revolution has become too high. Because when we talk about this, it seems all like this huge political rivalry, but we lose the point of how long extraordinary Cubans have been enduring and living under these difficult circumstances.

11:41Of course, you've mentioned how resilient Cubans are and how they've been coping with so many different difficulties in the past few decades. but things have become particularly difficult and hard for Cubans, especially in the past few months. Could you explain why that is and what is happening? I think there is an important topic that is deep in the context of what's going on now, which is that for many years, many decades, the education and the health system, which are regarded as the thing that makes Cubans and the Cuban revolution more proud of. Those two systems have deteriorated over the years.

12:25So now we don't even have that in order to stick to something that we can be proud of. And it has been deteriorating because of the deterioration of the Cuban economy, deterioration of the Cuban productivity and deterioration with the different US administrations. We've also had no real break over the past eight or nine years. Because after the setback caused by the reversal of Obama-era opening measures by Trump, the pandemic came. And tourism, which is a crucial source of income for the island, collapsed. And it never fully recovered after that because Biden did not restore many of the measures that Trump had rolled back during his first administration.

13:07And now that Trump is back and once again increasing pressure on Cuba, many Cubans feel as though they simply cannot see any lights at the end of the tunnel. So they're experiencing the same that we're experiencing 34, 35 years ago. And now on top of that, with the uncertainty of what is Trump going to do if the conversations that are reportedly going on fail or don't reach a meeting point. But how are Cubans reacting to all of this at the moment? Well, they're really desperate. Once again, like in the 90s, so people are cooking in communal pots, using charcoal and firewood to share meals with neighbours and relatives.

13:45Transportation is extremely scarce. People cannot really plan on their meals because food has to be bought day by day without reliable electricity because it quickly spoils, can go to waste. And on top of that, again, what I'm saying about the uncertainty surrounding what is going to happen under this Trump administration and all the pressure that he's mounting on the island. When it comes to the future of Cuba, is there a difference between what Cubans inside of Cuba want for the future and what the Cubans outside in the diaspora want? First and foremost, I would say most people want well-being for their families, greater economic freedom, more opportunities and the possibility of a better future.

14:30It is true that there are voices within the diaspora that are highly critical of the Cuban government. And for them, the priority is actually for the current system to disappear and for Cuba to open up to a different political model. But even in that case, I think, and this is partly my own opinion, partly what I observe in Miami, for example, where I have relatives, which is considered like the greatest stronghold of the Cuban diaspora, that there is also a deep desire to preserve Cuban identity, even if the United States were to play a larger role, in Cuba's future is quite visible in the streets.

15:02And it's what I call the nostalgia industry that is very revealing in Miami because many Cubans, even the most critical with the government, they try to live in ways that closely resemble life back in Cuba with supermarkets selling traditional products and stores and restaurants serving typical Cuban food. The Cuban identity remains incredibly powerful. And there seems to be a broad consensus that this is something that cannot be compromised. And I think that is shared by an overwhelming majority of the Cuban diaspora. I would say that the identity is quite important and pretty much everyone agrees on preserving that.

15:37Thank you, Jose Carlos Cueto-Lopez from BBC Mundo.

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17:22on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. This is The Fifth Floor, and I'm Farina Khamidi. The UN says that at least 32 political prisoners have been executed in Iran since February this year. The UN's Human Rights Office has warned that the death penalty is increasingly being used to silence political dissent. Last year, Iran carried out 2 ,159 executions, according to Amnesty International, the highest number since 1981. The Iranian government says that the vast majority are for drugs-related offences or murder. Ghonche Habibyazad of BBC Persian has been trying to find out more about the political prisoners who've been executed this year.

18:14And she told me about her findings. It was in early May that I noticed a surge in executions. And I noticed that three were executed in connection with January protests in Iran. And after that, we saw more and more political executions happening. And it was happening on a near daily basis. Because of internet shutdown, it was really difficult to see reports of them before they were executed in some cases. What do you mean see reports of them before they were executed? So usually the case in Iran is that some human rights organizations, they raise the issue that someone is in the risk of executions like the families have talked to them, or they knew some information and details about them.

19:01But in some of the executions that we've seen recently, we don't know much about who these people were, what their lives were like. And that was due to the internet outage. And as well, that it could be the case that their families were under pressure not to publish any sort of information about them. And Roncha, how are executions usually carried out in Iran? So in Iran, the executions are usually carried out by hanging. Some of them are carried out publicly, not so much in these recent cases. There were also some reports that firing squads have been used like years ago, but we haven't seen anyone getting executed by firing squads recently.

19:43What about Iranian state television? Do they announce these executions? And how trustworthy is the information that comes from the state-run TV? So the process for these executions has been that Misan, which is Iran's judiciary affiliated news agency, usually publishes reports early in the morning that they have been executed. And later on, we see like TV packages and reports by state TV showing allegedly forced confessions, something that some of these prisons have said were forced confessions, but Iranian authorities deny. and they show glimpses of how they were arrested, how what happened to them.

20:25But we don't see the full picture, obviously, from like a very short TV package. But also, these executions have raised concerns among human rights organisations. But Iran's judiciary chief has rejected foreign participation and foreign interference in these executions and has said this is a matter of Iran's security and Iran. So we have, like, when we were doing the report on executions, we raised these concerns and raised the allegations that some human rights organizations were saying that these are forced confessions that we are seeing on state TV. And we didn't get a reply from Iranian authorities.

21:04And just to put it into perspective, so far, at least 37 have been executed. When we want to compare it, Amnesty International has said that in the whole year of 2025, last year, they saw 45 political executions, comparing it with the number of 37 that we are seeing. And we are still in the fifth month of this year. And Gontje, how has the internet blackout in Iran changed access to information for journalists like you? And how difficult has it been for you to verify these executions? It has been very, very difficult because I'm in contact with some activists of the diaspora outside Iran, and they also have their own network of connections inside the country.

21:51And even them were saying that it's very difficult to get in touch with the families, with those who knew the prisoners who were executed. So we had to rely heavily on what was published before their execution, their voice notes, videos from their families. And the process of verification of those was also really difficult. And for the photos as well, some of those who have been executed, we don't have any photos of them other than what has been published on state TV. And some of these photos were AI enhanced, so we couldn't use them. So we had to rely on seeing like a snapshot of state TV of where they were like allegedly like doing a crime or something.

22:34So usually the executions happen in early morning in Iran. And then I like created like a list of the names and the verified photos as well of these people that we had both from Iranian websites and also from human rights organizations. as well operating outside Iran. So I would say like, what is the official narrative? What is the narrative of those working outside Iran? What are they saying? What are they accusing Iranian authorities of? Then putting them, these two together would give us like a better picture, not the full picture, obviously, but like a better picture to see how the execution has happened, were there reports of the name before they were executed or not.

23:25And also like getting in touch with the families is also an increased risk for them because Iranian authorities would know somehow who has spoken to the foreign base outlets and we are one of them as well. So I didn't want to add some pressure and extra risk to those who are inside Iran as well. So I had to rely heavily on what was publicly available. Qan Chajan, have you seen a change in how the regime announces executions? So in the past, we could have some executions happening in silence without media reporting on them. And later, when some human rights organizations outside Iran reported on them, then Iran acknowledged that they have carried out the executions.

24:12But this time around, it seems like for most of these executions, the first source that we heard from was Iran's official outlets and Iran's judiciary. And then we saw packages about almost every single one of them on state TV that it could show to people that this is the fate of someone who might go out to the streets. This is the fate of someone who might send information to foreign outlets. And we have seen one case very recently that he was executed in less than two months after his arrest related to the war. And he was accused of spying for Israel and sending out information to foreign outlets.

25:02So it seems like the process from getting arrested to getting executed is kind of being also sped up in a sense in Iran as well. And it seems that the charges which can lead to death row have also changed and basically broadened. Can you explain that a little bit more for us? So Iran, when it comes to executions, has one of the highest rates in the world. And it's not just political. Like when it comes to narcotics, Iran has got one of the toughest laws in the world. And they put people to executions because of that. So when it comes to these political and security related executions, we have seen a range of allegations against these individuals from allegedly spying for Israel and the US to being accused of being a member of an exiled opposition group to having links with January protests and even having links with 2022 Mahsa Amini woman life freedom protests in Iran.

26:10as well. And among them, I have to mention that all of them were men so far, young men, mostly. And also, we don't know much about their lives. And when it comes to charges against them, like there was one case, Sassan Azadwar, who was executed in relation to January protests. But in the video published by State TV, he was not accused of doing any lethal crime, which can lead to executions, punishable by death. In Iran, he was accused of throwing stones at a police car. But later on, after the report by State TV and the report by Iran's judiciary-affiliated Mizar News Agency, I saw that some Iranian outlets had accused him of participating in the killing of three police officers, but that was not in their original report.

27:06Why do you think they have broadened the charges that could lead to a death sentence? We can't obviously speculate about why they're doing this at this time, but it's somehow like a trend in Iran that after mass protests in the country, after some time, you get the executions as well. So it could be a part of like a broader tactic by the Iranian authorities that to avoid further protests from happening. And we also saw during the war that Iran police chief Ahmad al-Zaradhan, he said himself that if anyone comes to the streets at the calling of the enemy, that person is going to be treated as the enemy in the streets.