Families in Israel and Gaza share their stories

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1:10Hello, I'm Rahul Tandon. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC OS Conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. And this time, we hear from families on either side of the border between Israel and Gaza. After two years and two days of war in Gaza, Israel and Hamas agreed the first phase of a US-brokered ceasefire. The remaining 20 surviving Israeli hostages, seized by Hamas fighters on 7 October 2023, are now back with their families. In return, Israel has freed some 2 ,000 Palestinian prisoners and detainees and has withdrawn its forces to a line, leaving it in control of just over half the territory.

2:01As we record this programme on Friday morning here in London, the ceasefire continues to hold, but it's fragile. And remember, this is only phase one of President Trump's 20-point peace plan. We go first to the city of Storot, just a few kilometres from the northern border of the Gaza Strip. It's home to George and his wife, Isle. They have two children, a newborn baby and a now three-year-old son. It's a beautiful town, usually very peaceful, except for things that have to do with the war and what was before the war. For 20 years, it's on and off. But aside from that, it's a very warm place, calm.

2:46People are Wonderful. It's also at its closest points, less than one mile from Gaza. We live on the upper floor of one of the two apartment buildings that is closest to Gaza in the whole country. Our balcony and our kitchen window and our living room window all face Gaza. And before the war in 2020 or 2021, Hamas posted a picture of our building with a target sign on it and specifically threatening us with some sort of attack. On the 7th of October, we weren't at home. It was a holiday. We were at my parents' house. Thankfully, a lot of our friends were at home in Sperot. Our older, he's about one and three months.

3:33He woke up in the morning. George had to change his diaper or something, and I took the phone, and we understood that something was happening. at that point a strange split in yael in my experience even though we're right next to each other happened which is i was in the whatsapp group of the building and yael was not the whatsapp group of the building was my main source of information that day and also a source of a lot of panic and i didn't share with yael and her family what was going on but there started being a lot of describing that they're shooting and hearing shooting getting closer and some people People said, it's shooting.

4:11It's hard. You know, I was a combat soldier of the army. And it's hard to tell exactly how far away it is, which is true. It's very hard to know exactly how close it is. And then someone went out to their balcony and to look what was happening. And he saw a bunch of gunmen dressed in black. And they shot at him. And he sent an update to the whole building saying that there's gunmen outside shooting at our building. And then the building next to us sent messages to our building saying that they've been broken into. the terrorists had broken through the front door and the windows of the building on the bottom floor.

4:43And they started going door to door in that building. And luckily, the people on the bottom floors there had all fled to the top floors and they disabled the elevators and eventually the terrorists stopped. We were in shock and we just stayed. We just stayed at my parents' house. We were very lucky because my parents have enough space for all of us. we were able to live in a home a lot of people we know and most of the people had to go to hotels which is very it sounds like it sounds okay but it was very very difficult very crowded and everyone was in a state of panic and horror from what happened so it wasn't like a vacation and we i think for me i wanted to go back to the life that we chose live near our friends to live in the community that we decided we want to live in i wasn't expecting to live with my parents it wasn't what i decided and we really love our community we wanted to go back yeah one of the things that was we want to rebuild the community we want to everyone that goes back And we felt like we're in a position to contribute to the community as well.

6:03The city is bigger today than it was on October 6th, 2023. So people left, I think probably 5 or 10 % of the city left. And because of people moving in, new people moving in, and also people having babies such as us, the city today has a larger population than it did before October 7th. I think that's really important because I think one of the long-term goals of Hamas to get into geopolitics, and not to the personal side, but was to ethnically cleanse the area of Jews and have everyone afraid to live there and turn it into a Judenrein area, which was a very Nazi goal of them. And my grandfather also yelled, grandfather, in different scenarios, but were both born in Germany and fled to different places when the Nazis came to power.

6:48My grandfather fled to England, and he went on to be an RAF bomber pilot. But unlike our grandfathers, who when someone comes along to kill all the Jews and kick them all out of their homes, we have the ability to fight back and go back and rebuild our lives. And we don't have the same extreme powerlessness that our grandparents' generation went through. And that for me is really important. important and as much as it sucked to become a refugee or a displaced person and have a building attacked and think all my friends were going to die and luckily all my close friends survived. We knew people that were killed, but none of my close friends.

7:28On the other hand, it's a privilege to live at this point in Jewish history where even though something like that can still happen, we won't turn out like our grandfather's or grandmother's generation. Do you feel safe where you live now that we've seen the Israelis withdraw from parts of Gaza? How do you feel today, both of you? I think first that it's not over because all the living hostages are home, which is such a relief and everyone is breathing now. But not all the hostages are back. And it's important because there are still families that are waiting to bury their loved ones. with dignity.

8:10So it's not over yet. Everyone is waiting for peace, is hoping for peace, and we're still waiting to see what will happen. We came back because we believe in life. We believe in, we want to live a peaceful life. And well, we hope, I hope for everyone to live a peaceful life. and for the leaders to have this for all of the people. But it's not that it's the end of something yet, okay? We're hoping to see. We're waiting to see what will happen. Our children, and I think every parent of every young child in Starot, they live in Mamad, which is the safe room. It's like a little bomb shelter room with reinforced concrete walls.

9:02And every night we close the window. It's like a regular window. It's a window that has a regular window and also a steel window that goes over the regular window. And we still, the kids are still in steroid, all sleeping in the bombshell of the room and not in a regular bedroom. And I think basically every parent is still closing the steel window. So on the one hand, the war is theoretically over. And Hamas, like Yael said, their abilities have been like greatly destroyed, but not entirely. On the other hand, how long will it be till I will let my baby sleep in a room that isn't a bomb shelter room?

9:37So that, you know, because a baby can't get to a bomb shelter in under 15 seconds in the middle of the night. Even a three-year-old can't do that. How long will it be until we stop putting all our children, turning the bomb shelter rooms into their bedrooms? I think that's a long time. That's a long way away. And and the Trump plan will really, really need to succeed in a very in-depth way for the parents of stay wrote not to. These little insights of what our life is like and little choices that no parent in Britain ever has to make that that are obvious to us and totally invisible or unimaginable to from Britain or Europe or America.

10:14Yeah. Remind me of how old your daughter is. Nine months. So she's nine months. She's got a whole life ahead of her now. What is that life going to be like, do you think? Is it going to be safe where you are for her to grow up? I hope we're building a good life for her and a safe one. We are doing what we can for the future here to be better and to be safer for everyone. For her living as a Jew, a Jewish baby girl, woman, woman here in Israel, she's safer than she would have been at different times. and she will be able to live a full Jewish life and be part of us defending ourselves as a nation.

11:08And I'm proud of that. I think, okay, instead of there, there are like grandpas and grandmas who remember times when they went to the beach in Gaza, when they had hummus together. People here remember that time and remember it with love, with hope. and people here, a lot of them, when we hear the bombs, when we understand what's happening, we're not happy it's happening. I used to live in Tel Aviv. I used to live in different parts of the country and we met people from Gaza who came into work. It was fine. We drove the same buses inside the country, people going to work. It was fine. I think the people we feel, it can be fine.

11:56It can be better than fine, you know? It can be a dream. It can be really amazing. It's not that we have something in our hearts toward Gaza, toward any people. We just want to live in peace. We just want to be able to live a Jewish life without somebody wanting to, for us not to be here, for us not to live. It's difficult to understand or to think that because of everything that's happened. And the war is really horrible. But actually, most people here just want to live a peaceful life. And when we meet people, even if they are Palestinians, it doesn't matter who they are. If they're peaceful to us, we will be peaceful to them.

12:42That's Yael and her husband, George, living in Storot, near the border of the Gaza Strip. In a few moments, we'll bring together a father and daughter on the other side of the conflict. I'm Rahul Tandon, and this is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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14:38Over the past week, thousands of Gazans have been making the journey back to their homes. Most already know there will be little left. It's estimated that across the territory, at least 80 % of buildings are in ruins, and hospitals, schools, water and sanitation facilities have been destroyed. For the two million or so people still living in Gaza, they face the daily struggle of finding clean water and enough food. And with winter approaching, warmth and shelter will be an increasing concern. We're going to meet a father and daughter now who've been separated by the war. Basil is a neurosurgeon in Gaza.

15:21His daughter Leanne fled to Egypt when the conflict started. They try to keep in touch. But as you'll hear in our conversation, that's never easy. Hi, Bobo. How are you? Bobo, can you hear me? That's normally what happens in Gaza. The internet connection is very weak. They are depending on generators for electricity and when it goes off, the internet cuts and you have to wait for seven minutes until it works again. Tell me something, Leanne. How difficult is that for you? because you must want to communicate with your father. And has it been really difficult over the past few years? Yes, of course.

16:04And saying that now they're using generators, that's an update, that's a progress. So before we could not reach him for days and weeks. So yeah, taking into consideration that my father lives in a war zone where a missile can hit him in any moment. Having connection with him all the time is vital and very important. And it's the only relief that we, his family that are outside, can have to hear his voice and to make a check on him and make sure that he's OK. So, yeah, when there is a communication and blackout, that's the worst ever for people staying away from their families. We've just got a sense of that now.

16:41I think he's back. Do you want to say hello to him again? Hello. Hi, Baba. Hi, how are you? Nihal, how are you? I'm fine. Alhamdulillah. How is your daughter? They're fine. They're missing you. sisters, mom. They're all okay. They are okay. They're sending their greetings. Okay. And how was your day? How's it going? As usual. Did you manage to get... We just think about what to eat, where to go, where to be safe. Hopefully, the day will pass and we still have peace. And did you manage to get food for today? Not much. as usual as usual we are going to eat in onions we have some bread and potatoes that's what we have today when did you last see your daughter physically when were you last able to give her a hug oh my god that was that was a few days before the war you know I think it was in your birthday right yes in my birthday yeah Yeah, that was seven days before the war.

17:57Yeah, it was my father's birthday. It was a few days before the war. And we held him a surprise party, me and my sisters, at my grandmother's house. By that time, she was alive. And the house was still there standing. And we put a cake in the balcony. He blew the candles. We sang for him her birthday. We brought him gifts. And I think that was the last time we physically saw you. Because during the war, I and my sisters, we evacuated to the south while he stayed in his house in the north. Laina, what has it been like for you? I'm sure every day you see those pictures coming in from Gaza. You see the destruction.

18:35You hear about people dying. We've already experienced ourselves the difficulty of communicating. Well, it was very, very difficult to see that, especially that I have my father who was still inside. So I have to stay on the news all the time and checking all the time about his neighborhood and if there was a bombardment near his house or near where he's living. And I know that my father goes out for work. He's a neurosurgeon. So he may be outside of the house. And I have to stay all the time alarmed for all the bombardment that is going in Gaza. And I was super worried that because doctors have been targeted, especially doctors, they were deliberate targeting for them.

19:14So that made me extra worry. The Israelis have said that they have not targeted any civilians during this conflict. That is what they would say. Can I ask you, Basil, it must be difficult not to have seen your daughter for such a long period of time. But because of the situation inside Gaza, were you happy that she wasn't there? You must have been knowing she was safer in Egypt. Yes, it's a mixed feeling that I'm happy that she and her sister are safe and her daughters. I was very much worried about myself, about if I'll meet them again and how and when. And this long war, when is going to end?

19:59So every day we were not sure if we were going to see in the morning and be able to reunite with the family. That was a terrible feeling, really. Lan, let's talk about the future with you. Are you thinking of going back to Gaza? Do you think that could happen soon, that you could be with your dad once again? Yes. When I left Gaza, I did not leave it by choice. I was forced to do that because I just wanted a survivor for my daughters. So, of course, I intend to return once the border is open and the circumstances are right, knowing that I lost my home. If we're back, we will have no place to stay.

20:38There are no schools. I will have no, my daughters, they cannot continue their education. And I lost my job. I used to work at the American International School at Gaza as an English teacher. So we have nothing there left. But of course, I intend to go back. I want to first see my father and I want to walk through my neighborhood. even that I know that it is Romans now. I'd like to visit the school where I used to work and the school where I used to study. I lost some of my students in this war. Many of them are still living in Gaza. I very much like to see them and hug them. I would like to breathe Gaza's air again.

21:15I want to see life return. There are children laughing, shops open again, people rebuilding. So yeah, definitely. When circumstances are right, I definitely want to go back. That's where I want to raise my daughters. Gaza is totally destroyed, totally destroyed. Only rebels and destroyed streets, no hospitals, no schools, no universities, no new municipalities, no electricity, no water. Who can live in this situation? I don't think that Gaza is the place where we can reunite and live peacefully. I am looking to go out of Gaza. I've never thought about this. But now I have this idea because I have also two children.

22:01I have to grow them in a place like any other people. We are destroyed. We are destroyed here in Gaza. I have to get them out of Gaza by any means. Believe me when I tell you that when I see people on YouTube or on TV occasionally when we have electricity, I wonder if there are still people in this world who live together, united with their families, go to restaurants, eat well, play in grounds and go to malls. I wonder if this still happens in the world. When we look at this, we feel that this is strange. I keep saying that I want to go back, but my friends who are still there, they tell me that you want to come back because you still have the beautiful image of Gaza.

22:48So that when you left, you're still somehow there. But now there is nothing of what you know. There's nothing of the places that you like. There is none of the people that you love. It's still there. So why would you want to come back? I'm not sure. Being outside, I can't separate myself from what is going on. I'm physically outside. But my soul is still in there. Because people that I care about are in there. And this is the place that I love and that I want to live in. but thinking that this place is now totally changed it is deformed when i see these images on tv i keep saying to myself that maybe it's they are exaggerating maybe there are still some areas that are they're still in the form that i left them i know that my house is not still standing there i spent my my life building this house and i lost that because the army decided to blow it up they took it as a shelter they lived there for i don't know how long and And then before they leave, they burnt it down.

23:43And there were Hebrew writings on my house walls and my daughter's rooms. And it's a difficult feeling to know that the place that you once loved is joined. But your soul is still longing to go there. And in your mind, you still hope, you still have hope for the future that it is going to be rebuilt. And I want to be part of this rebuilding process. I want to go back to teach kids to normalize life that was stolen from these children. So I do still want to go back and to contribute to the building process. There is no Gaza. There was something called Gaza. Now there is no Gaza. These are only rebels, only destroyed.

24:24You know, this was not the war. The war ends when some army occupies the other land. But this continued to destroy. destroy everything everything it's been hard i have to say listening to both oops and that is the problem when we communicate with guards isn't it land that the lines just just go and i suppose that is what life has been like for the last few years for you hasn't it just intermittent brief conversations if he was with us on the line now what would you say to him how would you say goodbye and how hard is it when you say goodbye to him it used to be very hard before because when I used to say to him goodbye, I did not know if in the next call, God forbids if he will be there or not.

25:14So now at least with this fire still holding, I know that he's safe. So my heart is a bit at ease. I wish for the best. I wish that it will hold, that my father would be safe and I will see him soon, will be able to hug him soon. And I keep imagining that moment in my head over and over, the time that I will be able to hug him and see him again. Lian in Egypt and, before we were cut off, her father Basil, who's still in Gaza. Thanks to them, as well as Yael and George in Israel, who we heard from earlier. And we wish both families well. I'm Rahul Tandon and you've been listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

26:05We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse. Move in now. Police! From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts. you