Film director Gurinder Chadha

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0:30Presented by the Department of Culture and Tourism, Abu Dhabi. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London. And this is The Global Story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:11I'm in a screening room in London about to watch a new film. Christmas Karma is director Grinder Chadha's contemporary musical reworking of Charles Dickens' famous story of Scrooge, the miser in A Christmas Carol. I have money, status, nothing can hurt me now. So then why are you so unhappy? Come on, you're fleecing me here. It's busy everywhere, mate. I am going to walk. No tip, not even tonight. It's Christmas Eve. What do they call you then? Scrooge. I'm Susan Marling and this is the documentary from the BBC World Service. for in the studio I've been following Gurinder in the making of the movie.

1:57So for me Christmas starts when I watch Frank Capra's film It's a Wonderful Life and I was like where's my film like that I want to make my version of that so that we can all feel really grateful at Christmas so this is what this is you have these intentions when you start out making a film you don't know where you're going to go the journey is precarious to say the least in terms of financing, casting, whatever. So all the Christmas lights are out. Getting very Christmassy. Enjoy everyone. And listen, three spirits will come to you tonight. I don't believe in ghosts or spirits. This is ridiculous.

2:45You're not even dressed like a ghost. The London spirit is wonderfully epitomised in the film by a cabbie, a taxi driver, played by Danny Dyer a cheerful bloke who tries in vain to amuse his gloomy passenger This will make you laugh On the first day of Christmas My wife, she made for me A bland butterball turkey On the second day of Christmas my wife she made for me two pigs in blankets and a bland butterball turkey on the third day of Christmas my wife she made for me three birds, sausage rolls Excuse me, I am a vegetarian this is offensive No, but the fifth day of Christmas is a cracker I don't want to know No, you'll love it, it's vegetarian I do not want to Five onion rigs The kind of spark you can feel it London is an amazing city.

3:49London at Christmas is even more amazing. So I've got beautiful shots of London, which get you into the Christmas spirit. And those cut very well with Sue, there was no Christmas spirit whatsoever. and given the time that we're in now I could not predict this when I wrote the film I was not very enamored with politicians and their stance on refugees but since that which was during Covid to now with the film on the precipice of coming out you know the world has changed a lot, the world I think has got harsher. And I feel what I'm doing is exactly the same thing that Charles Dickens was doing 150 odd years ago when he first wrote A Christmas Carol.

4:41It was a plea for kindness and tolerance in quite a fragmented, divided society. The haves and the have-nots were to extreme and he very cleverly put that all together. So Dickens Scrooge becomes Gurinder's Mr Sood, a hard-hearted Indian businessman whose workers are miserable, who hates refugees and who won't give to charity even at Christmas. Oh hello, we're visiting local businesses and collecting for the homeless. So we can get people off the streets for Christmas. So why should I be extra for lazy unemployed shirkers who don't have the which to find a job and pay ink to the economy instead of leeching off of it whether it's Christmas or any other time of the year.

5:31Many people are homeless through no fault of their own. Many are sick or vulnerable, unable to manage. So are there no hospitals, no hostels, no institutions that can lock the sick and weak away so tax paying citizens like me aren't penalised for their failures? Sir? I have no time for the week. Right, so you see, everyone's getting personalities now, yeah? Gurinder's Mr Sood is played by Karnal Naya, and the cast includes Eva Longoria, Billy Porter and Boy George as the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future, who in a series of fantastical scenes show Sood the error of his ways. On set, here filming in Sood's grim office, Gurinder's approach is high energy with a full command of the scene.

6:24I'll be thinking about all these things Christmas, Christmas Eve, OK? All right, let's shoot Violet.

6:33When it comes to getting performances out of people, are you the sort of director who wants big intervention or to stand back and let the actor surprise you? I think as a director, you have to be 100 % in control of your storytelling, what you're doing. And you're using all these different elements, whether it's the actors, the camera, the sound, the costumes, the production design, you know, you're using all these elements to tell that story. you should know if a mug should be here or there what colour it should be who's going to pick it up when are they going to pick it up when are they going to put it down how they hold it what does that mean for the actor the trick though is to include everybody else in that process listen everyone listen this lady Karen she comes in here she's like oh I need to put it on the desk in there you go in and you put that on the desk my man who's come for a job There you are.

7:38So you're going to come in here. He's waiting for that meeting. Right. You're set. Disrespect my name on my premises, on my time. I see no other option. But Mr S, we've got our end of year accounts to complete. Precisely. Your disregard for our deadlines is unacceptable. You are all replaceable. Oh, come on, Mr Sood. It's Christmas. Looks like my Christmas just came early. Normally I ask my actors to do bios of their own characters and then I go through them with them. I found that a very useful tool in how to connect with an actor. I have been trying to get a hold of you all day. Karnal, as sued, has a hard job remaining mean and miserable for more than 90 % of the film.

8:26His instinct as an actor is to be loved, but he's playing a character who is not loved, who says really silly things, you know, and is an old curmudgeon. So I think that was a really interesting push and pull. And I remember I said that to him once when we were doing the last set of scenes, which are the scenes in his bedroom. And he came on set and I said, so this is what I'm thinking. He went, let me do it first. Let me do it first, what I have, then you can criticise. I said, I'm not criticising. But he was so like prepared. He didn't want to hear me. And then, of course, he did it. And it was fantastic.

9:06So on this film, it was amazing working with Kanaar because he's in every scene virtually, you know. And so he was there with me through the whole thing. He is the film, the journey of a man who is hurt and embittered and suffering from depression. That is the character of Scrooge. Dickens had great bouts of depression. and I've read that he wrote A Christmas Carol during one of these bouts of depression to help him get out of it. So it's actually about someone who's depressed about the state of the world and is looking to find the good in humanity. And it's hard to find it, you know, but eventually he does find it.

9:52I wonder, though, isn't it tricky adapting a Dickens classic? It's a story that everyone knows. My job was, how do I make it different? How do I inject it with who I am, with what I am as a British Indian woman, mother? So my job was to honour Dickens, but at the same time make a comment on society today from my perspective. To make answer your study camp, Irodi Mace. OK, very good. Have you seen this Africa stuff, Susan? No. OK, so this is a big spoiler for you then. It's the ghost of Chris has passed, takes him back to his childhood, and you're not expecting, in a movie set in London, his past to be Africa in 1972.

10:43Look at this. Sud's past being evicted from East Africa mirrors Gurinder's own family history. But last year, filming on location in the Kenyan sunshine, Not everything went to plan. We can't shoot what we want. We have to follow the giraffes. And they started over here, and then they were looking at us coming, and they went, no, you're not filming us. They're the most elusive. The impalas are fine, wildebeest are fine, zebras are fine. They're all like, yeah, yeah, come and shoot me, whatever you want, come and shoot me. But the giraffes, uh-uh. So Kenya is the place I was born, where my father was born, my mum was born in Uganda, and this was on their doorstep, you know.

11:35And my dad pined for Kenya every day in England. You know, it was 1908 that the British brought my great-uncle here. He was a police officer to help make certain lands safe after the scramble for Africa. and so my great uncle called his brothers over. One was in the British Army and the other was my grandfather, Bishensingh. And that's how everyone ended up in Kenya and that's how come my dad was born here and my family is here in Kenya. So kind of colonial rule, really. Kenya is a beautiful country with beautiful people. It's quite overwhelming to be actually shooting here because of my connections.

12:20You can see why those British colonisers would have come here and just gone, wow. But I'm glad now that the animals are in charge here and the animals are deciding what my shots should be. They've got the power. They're back in control. Back in the edit suite in wintry London, the story of the expulsion of thousands of Indian families by Idi Amin, including Sud's family, comes together. All Asians must leave the country within 90 days. What I've tried to do, and being a journalist myself, is looking at the footage and understanding the interviews with Idi Amin from a different perspective. The problem was that when the British came to Uganda, they bought the Asians to build the railways, developed the economy, why didn't they look at the African man and make it work for the African?

13:24There are the Africans here who can even work under building the railway with the instructions given to them by the British. This problem will not happen. But leaving is a tragedy for the boy sued who must say goodbye to his friend and his dog. Goodbye, Dorothy. A memory that will haunt soothe the man who disapproves of refugees. I mean, that should be the end shot of that sequence now. The previous bit, yeah. Yeah. So that's good. Just three shots. It's passable off his guard, but we should definitely end with this shot. what do you do if in the edit you see a scene doesn't quite fit and you have to make a difficult decision what to do it's gone if a scene doesn't work that's it it's gone like I'm quite good at that making those decisions because I came up through radio I came up as a broadcast journalist and I was editing little news packages way into the night for local radio in Birmingham.

14:39So I'm always a journalist at heart. Does this work for what I'm trying to say? So if a scene doesn't, it's gone. I mean, I spent a lot of money and a lot of time doing a whole song and dance sequence in this movie and in the end it just slowed everything down. I'm like, that's one song too many. And everyone's like, oh, but look how beautiful it looks. I'm like, I know, but I can't go with it, you know. So I cut it and my editor was like, but, but, but, but. Was this shot on location or in a studio set up? It was shot on a volume stage in a studio, which means it's a studio which has virtually 360 degree screens around so you can put whatever you want and I put stars, fireworks, falling snow, you name it, went to town with all the gadgets.

15:38So it looks great but if it doesn't work in your story it's got to go. But not quite decided yet. I think we have decided to lose the sequence. However, there are a couple of shots that are absolutely magical. Magic. And I don't really want to lose them. There are a number of very beautifully staged parties and other celebrations where there's song and there's dance. How on earth do you get people who might not feel like they're having a party or want one, but you get that kind of joyfulness out of them. What do you do? I love a party scene, me. I've got loads of them in this movie. The day begins with me playing music and dancing with everyone and getting in the mood.

16:31You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

16:39America is changing and so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere. I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is The Global Story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

17:13My goodness, it's amazing. Brimming with history and culture. There's no place on earth for art like this. Bursting with flavours. I can smell the spices. And basking in luxury. Nice to have you here in paradise. Abu Dhabi Unwrapped is a sonic guide to a very special destination. Paid and presented by the Department of Culture and Tourism Abu Dhabi. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

17:42OK, enough of that. Let's have a party. Here he comes. Hey! And now Sue is being dragged onto the door. Nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay. No, no, no, no, no. And finally we see him doing his dance.

18:03And then I miss the cheers. And then now you all give him a cheers. One, two, in your glasses together, ready? One, two, three, cheers! Cheers! And he cheers back. The great thing about filmmaking for me is when you turn up on that set as the director and you look around, every single person that's there is there to do their best for you. And so if they're in front of the camera, they will be nervous because they don't want to look silly. You know, I've got to make sure I've got my eyes arms around them and i'm holding them up if they're behind the camera they don't want their work to look shoddy so i've got to be on top of all the technical stuff and make sure from production designer to dp to sound costume designer every single element i'm encouraging to do their best and so you have to do a lot of i think a lot of praise and appreciation of people and what they've done.

19:05OK, that's not bad. A wipe's good. If we've got a wipe, that'll work. And what stage are you at with the film here today? So where we're at now is the final mix, balancing the sound effects, the dialogue, the music. Mike, here is my music. What's your title, Mike? I'm a re-recording mixer. There he is. He's much more than that. He's very VIP. VIP. And Mike and I have done several films together. Also this is Alex, who is the supervising sound editor. Yes. Who's very good at making creepy sounds for ghosts, as well as just cutlery on the table. You know, all kinds of things that you would never think take hours and hours of work.

19:50But that's what Alex does. The power of a music cue is to know when to come in and when to come out because if it's too early, it's too leading. If it's too late, you've missed the boat emotionally. You've got to get it just right in order for it to emotionally underscore your scene. Oh my God, Susan, you're in for a treat now. You're going to have a first here. We're about to go into an amazing sequence. My Christmas Bungra song. Tell me about that. Well, this is a first. Can't make a Christmas movie without a Christmas Bungra song. So I wrote this song and Pajambi MC, I went to Pajambi MC to help me put it together.

20:31I grew up with Christmas like everyone else. We had a tree, we had stockings, we had turkey, we had the whole lot ever since I was a little girl. And I'm like, where's our Christmas song? So I was determined to have that for this film. Then I needed someone to bring together all these different sounds. so they're one movie and along comes the genius that is Nitin Sawni and so in my Bungra song he added Christmas bells in a way that I just didn't even think of you know and now when I watch the movie back and the bells come up in the song I just beam I'm like wow this is us this is what we do if you remember in Dickens Scrooge has a nephew who has a party and he invites him and he doesn't go and at the party they're all having a laugh at Scrooge behind his back while they play parlour games and dance so what I've done is written that scene where the nephew is impersonating him saying but quas which of course is Hindi for bar humbug it starts with he won't wish you a merry Christmas he won't wish you a merry Christmas and so it's very true to Dickens and that they are taking the mickey out of him for being a miser.

21:51I know you like to work with the same team a lot. Just tell me what it is about your editor that keeps him coming back. So my editor, Josh Cunnyliffe, and I worked together on a TV series I made called Beach of House. Now, I was very busy during that shoot because I ended up directing all six episodes when I was originally only going to do three. but I was also making my movie Blinded by the Light at the same time. And I had two young kids. Josh came in and kind of edited one episode. Now, normally I'm very hands-on, but once Josh started editing, I was amazed at how he just understood me and understood emotion.

22:39My USP is emotion. how to wring every last drop of emotion from my storytelling, from my actors to the audience. And Josh has this amazing ability to tap into that. It's all right. You all right? It's all right. Yeah, it's all right. Dad's got you. Can't control it. Did it hurt? Yeah, a little bit. The film's most emotional scene follows Dickens' story of the sick child, Tiny Tim. He suffers from a rare illness. Now we're in the Cratchit's house and we understand that Tiny Tim is poorly and he has an illness which is very prevalent today. It's NF1, which is when tumours grow on the end of kids' nerves and you never know if they're benign or not.

23:31And the actor who plays Tiny Tim actually suffers from this. so the family are trying to help by setting up a fund to take tim to switzerland where there's a doctor who's involved in some new treatment so we learn all this in the scene and sued is beginning to feel a bit sheepish and then the ghost of christmas present stands behind tim and says you're the one who said we should get rid of the sick is it feeling a bit better yeah Will he be OK? Yeah, that was it. Quite nice. Because we all know he's not going to get better. But then the spirit of Christmas resurrects him! And we're all crying into our popcorn.

24:22The emotional intensity of the film is underscored by Gary Barlow's music. Gary is a master at writing ballads he has written two of the most touching songs in this film and then with the Ghost of Christmas Future the responsibility of the Ghost of Christmas Future is a song a very beautiful song that song carries a lot of pain of the past and a lot of memory and I needed someone who's been through it so understands the words so I was thrilled when I offered it to Boy George and Boy George said yes because there's a gap here so if I can it will just start the whole thing later but maybe it doesn't matter but it will start this later oh I see yeah but then because there's gap on the other side yeah it might not matter exactly you take it out of there I'll just do that now and see how that works

25:23normally the drafts come on on that ting this is the ghost of christmas future and in dickens he takes him to a cemetery where he sees his gravestone so what we've done here is taking him to what we're calling the wasteland which is an old unused sports pitch and it's cold and scary and the ghost of christmas future arrives he knows he's coming and he's scared of him and then the ghost of christmas future is going to take him to meet his future. So the thing about this dream thing is this is the storm and then we go to the calm. So you want to sort of rise a crescendo. That's what I was going for.

26:09Please stop!

26:13That's what you want, isn't it? Yeah, it does. Now it's worth it because it's super dramatic. Who's the audience for this film? Everybody. The whole world. old, young, black, white, gay, straight everybody who's got a beating heart who knows people where life hasn't always been easy and need life reaffirming for them that's who this film's for I think there will be a lot of people who like what I do and like my perspective on the world I think there'll be other people who probably can't stand me and what I do won't like the film but that's okay you know that as a filmmaker you have to take the hits as well as the praise because you're putting yourself out there my feeling for me is this is quite a personal film because I made it for my kids you know and I made it knowing that they will go out into the world and have to suffer prejudice you know which is a hard thing I'm getting well done so I made the film to empower them.

27:21So if I can achieve that for them and other kids, I'm happy. In the Studio with Gurinder Chadha was presented and produced by me, Susan Marling. It's a Just Radio production for the BBC World Service.