France’s new Christians

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1:19No messy integrations. No bouncing between tabs. And best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. France is now so secular that 8 out of 10 people say they have no religion. Yet this Easter, 10 ,000 adults lined up to be baptised. it's a 45 percent increase this year and that follows a similarly steep rise last year

2:01the numbers far from outweigh the decline in infant baptisms but still there's something going on especially when you listen to some of the stories these new christians have to tell I didn't have faith at all at that time I couldn't even put a foot in a church I hated it I thought it was just a hypocrite story all of this, you know but because I was really down down that was my only option was to pray I grew up with Muslims and I always admired them because of their prayers so it was natural for me because I was seeking something and because I believed in a God to study Islam a bit But no disrespect to anyone, it wasn't for me.

2:45I'm John Lawrenson and you're listening to the documentary on the BBC World Service. On this week's Heart and Soul, exploring personal approaches to faith, I've come to meet France's new Christians and find out why so many people are embracing Christianity later in life.

3:08at a church in a town called Mantenon not far from Paris there's a banging on the door shortly after the beginning of mass new Christians who want to come in well I say new Christians they're not Christians yet they're katashumans the church calls them people under instruction in the rudiments of Christianity This ritual entrance marks the beginning of the path that should lead to their baptism next Easter. After Mass, I get talking to one of them, Christelle Stevenson, and her husband, Benjamin. It's been several years already that I've been thinking about being baptized, but I've never really had the guts to do it.

3:50But my husband told me last year, you should go now, it's time. you've had too much questions. So I decided to come here for the first time and here I am. Why did you want to get baptized? So I come from a family which is half Christian, half Buddhist. So we have four children and two of the children were baptized and the two others were not. So me and my brother. And And it was only maybe 10 years ago that I started to ask myself questions. And I was working at the Palace of Versailles. So it's a very religious place. And I had, you know, the guides. I listened to the story. So we went to the chapel, everything else.

4:44And that's how I started watching everything about God, Jesus, everything else.

4:58Christelle says she really wants to use the nine months of her kata shumenet to learn about the church she intends to join. She's always asking, why did you do this, why did you do that? She says she has the faith, she believes, and embracing the church is also good for her and good for society. I think today people are more than ever lost. They do a lot of mistakes. They don't make the right choices. We have a lot of murders, everything else. And I think it's really too bad. And I think they really need to come back to God. Maybe it would help them to have a path to follow. Because things are really lost.

5:44Like the sheep, you know? It's really the picture I have. And then we have to find back a real community too. Yes. And I think the values given by the religion may help them to go back to family before everything else and to helping others, empathy, everything else. If Christelle sees her kata-schumelette through to the end, she'll be part of next year's adult baptism statistics. This year, in addition to the adults, 7 ,000 teenagers under the age of 18 were baptised too. Record numbers for France. And there have been similarly spectacular increases in other countries too. In the United States, for example, England, Austria and Belgium.

6:33And behind each one of these numbers, there's a story. Often an extraordinary one.

6:45At a stables outside a village called La Boissière École, 50 miles west of Paris, Lorraine Mercredi Binet is jumping fences on a tall bay mare called Préface. Lorraine is French and Scottish. Préface, preface, is a Belgian warm blood and was the beginning of a story that brought Lorraine to her baptism this Easter. Where should we start? Well, I can start with, I'm going to cry. I had a dream. And that dream was to have a horse of my own. And I thought it was impossible. Too expensive, too much time. Nevertheless, she couldn't stop herself looking till one day as she was scrolling on her telephone, a horse for sale popped up.

7:37It was Preface. I said to the woman who was selling it, it just came out of my mouth. I said, this mare is not called Preface for nothing. She's going to change my life. It's going to be hard with her at the beginning, but then it's going to be wonderful. I will be able to die happy. I don't know why I said that, but it just came out. Hard at the beginning, it certainly was. So she came here and then in three months, our relationship just went down, got worse and worse. And then the accident came. She bucked me off. So I fell and I got a hoof in the arm. So it got my arm broken in two, like split really in half.

8:31My humerus was split in two. And so I got a surgery, which went really bad. And I remember the surgeon was really negative about the surgery. And he said, I'm not sure you're going to be able to start your passion again. It's over. So that was me really, really down. I was buried very deep. And so when I went in the surgery room, I put my eyes up and I said, please help. I was praying in my head and I was like, please help. I didn't have faith at all at that time. I couldn't even put a foot in a church. I hated it. I thought it was just a hypocrite story, all of this, you know. But because I was really down, down, that was my only option was to pray.

9:17So I tried. And Lorraine had a second operation which went really badly too, leaving her arm in an even worse state. For a year and a half, she lived with this useless broken arm. But she eventually found a new surgeon she trusted and just before the new operation had the first of a series of premonition dreams. I was dreaming that I was waking up in my surgery room and I knew I wasn't paralysed. I could move my arm perfectly well and I knew everything was healed. And so I went to have this surgery and my dream happened. so I remember when they took the the breathing machine out of my throat uh so they said Lauren breathe deeply so that was me waking up from the surgery and I was like and I felt like a satin um scarf coming out you know something very uh soft and and sweet you coming out of my throat and I thought I was having a rebirth.

10:27I really felt it that way. I was born again. And I was like, and I knew it. I opened my eyes and I was in this state, modified, conscious state. And I was in unconditional love. I knew it was the end of the tunnel. I knew it was going to be the beginning of something else. And I felt so deep love. I knew I wasn't alone. I knew I was being looked after and I felt so much peace inside. Doctors will tell you that coming round from a long general anaesthetic can stir up all kinds of sensations, euphoria, vivid dreams, even a rush of I'm alive relief as the brain chemicals rebalance. For Lorraine, that perfectly natural altered state felt like something more.

11:22The first night after the surgery, I had another dream and that was divine light that was white and blue, divine light on me. I was receiving light, light, light, light. And it was just shining on me. I was receiving it inside my body, inside my cells. And I felt so alive. and I woke up I was extraordinarily well I was so good and then after three days I could start moving my arm I took videos for the surgeon to show him I said look this this is a miracle it was like wow but this is crazy and then afterwards I had another dream a couple of weeks later and it said if someone tries to put you out of the right track always ask help of Virgin Mary.

12:14So I woke up with that and it was so deep in my heart and it was like, okay. So I knew that this blue and white light, I knew that was her. When you're getting ready to be baptised, you write a letter to your bishop. In hers, Lorraine wrote that some people have near-death experiences. She'd had a near-birth experience. The path to her baptism this Easter was then a shining one even though she was initially frustrated at how long the preparation was going to take at the beginning you're very impatient you know you're like oh no a year and a half is going to be too long i want to be baptized now but it is very important to follow this path and and the time it takes just to be sure and to work your patience and your peace Where were you baptized?

13:10In Rambouillet. Okay, in the big church at the top of Saint-Lubin? Saint-Lubin Church, yes. Were you numerous? I think we were five. I felt so much joy and peace at the same time. Yeah. Like, I was very happy, I was smiling all the time, but I felt inner peace, deep peace. And now, what is your life as a Christian now? I try to go regularly to Mass. on Sundays I also go to the Protestant temple because I'm curious and I like the pastor she's an extraordinary woman so I really like listening to her and so I try to go to mass, I try to go to some meetings with other Catholics I try to pray a little bit every day and I try to seek God in every moment of my day like at my work with my mayor sometimes we just have moments together that feel like eternity and the bond we have now is really wonderful Do you think it's good that you were baptized as an adult rather than as a baby?

14:36I don't know if it's better. It makes me understand what it's all about. I have the before and the after. And so I can understand people who do not believe. And I will never blame them because I know what it is, how it feels. But now that I do believe and I do know and sense differently, my life is really different.

15:09I'm John Lawrenson and you're listening to the documentary on the BBC World Service. I'm in France for this episode of Heart and Soul where I'm meeting some of the fast-growing number of adults getting baptised.

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16:27When it comes to the baptism of adults, each person has a story, each person has a path. But are there nevertheless some profiles that emerge? Father Charles Delay is a Belgian priest who was for 20 years editor-in-chief of the Catholic weekly Dimanche. He says one reason is the contact so many people have now with Muslims, who tend to be open, demonstrative even, proud even of their faith. But for many years, we've been wondering whether the meeting with Islam would awaken the Christians. Perhaps it's happening now. That's one profile. For others, it's making up for parents who had grown apart from the church.

17:11The young person, thanks to a spiritual experience or a difficult moment in their lives, discovers faith, poiety and prayer and joins a Christian community to make up for deep down what the parents didn't do. Then, of course, there are those who meet a Christian, like what they see and want to become one too.

17:34Still, it's quite surprising to see this, isn't it? In Europe in particular, which has become so secular. When you look at the percentage rises of adult baptisms, they're impressive. In Belgium, it's time three in the last decade. That's nothing compared to the rise in the number of debaptisms and the fall in the number of infant baptisms. When Belgium was founded in 1830, 99 % of infants were baptized. Now it's 3 out of 10. In France, there's been a sharp rise in adult baptisms, but overall, the number of baptisms is falling by 200 ,000 each year. What we're seeing is a change of model. We are moving from what I'd call a Christianity of culture, where most people are baptized and go to church on Sundays, to a Christianity of conviction.

18:35This is a huge change for the Church which is centering itself more and more on living communities because there are some Christian communities that are now dead while at the same time Christian culture no longer dominates in the life of our countries It is now, in the words of Pope Paul VI a Church that is in dialogue with the world we live in whereas before it governed the world The Church has a message. It opens a conversation. It is, in the words of the French philosopher François Julien, a resource for society, but it is one among others. François Julien parle du christianisme comme ressource, une des ressources possibles pour la société.

19:23Fr. Charles Dillet, long-time editor of the Catholic Weekly Dimanche. Bénissez ce repas, Seigneur. Bénissez les mains qui l 'ont préparé. With his family around the dinner table at his home near the Riviera port town of Yer on the Mediterranean Sea, Jeremy Bossard says grace. He was baptised with 11 other adults at Easter last year. On the wall, there's a crucifix and an icon of the Virgin Mary. And Jeremy wears a cross around his neck. He works in a town hall. In such places, French laïcité forbids ostentatious religious symbols, as the law puts it. A smallish cross around the neck is supposed to be all right.

20:08I'd say Jeremy's is more biggish than smallish. If they tell me not to wear it to work, I'll have one tattooed on my neck. He laughs, but you get the feeling, talking to Jeremy, that he totally would. I thought, when I set out to make this programme, that I was mainly going to meet people who were quietly looking to bring something sacred into their lives, something a bit abstract like that. But for the newly baptized Christians I've happened across, Lorraine was recommended by a local priest, Jeremy is the friend of a friend, their new faith is a matter of life and death. Jesus saved them. This is Jeremy's story.

20:46I have not had any religious education. My great brother was baptized.

20:55I didn't have a religious education. My big brother was baptised because, for my parents, it was still the tradition. But me and my little sister weren't. Did you go to church a bit?

21:09Not at all. The only time I ever set foot in a church was for a funeral. I was like 12. What did you think of the church at that time? I had a problem with the church. I was always a fan of the story of Jesus. There was something, but I never tried to dig deeper. Though I did read the Bible, well, I tried. I started with the Old Testament. It was so complicated. When you're young, you quickly get lost among all the names. And the church, with all the scandals at that time, I saw it through the lens of the media and the people around me. The paedophilia scandals? All of that, yes. Also, all the people who said they'd been more or less forced to do catechism, or that the priest had been hard on them.

21:58Now I have a different point of view. I've understood that the church is also a reflection of society.

22:07There have been a lot of Muslims around me in my life. I grew up with Muslims. and I always admired them because of their prayers. So it was natural for me because I was seeking something and because I believed in a God to study Islam a bit. But no disrespect to anyone, it wasn't for me. I had a look at esotericism as well, but as the Lord says, he who seeks me shall find me. He was looking for me. Several times he called me, but I rejected those calls because it's easier to do wrong than to do right. It was more comfortable for me to remain a sinner. What was it about Islam that made you decide that religion wasn't for you?

22:55It was that I felt close to Jesus. And when I studied Islam and found that Muslims don't recognise him as the son of God, I couldn't go further. The Issa in Islam was not the Jesus I'd heard about when I was little. I talked about religion a lot with Muslims and I respected them. I respect all religions. But Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. And I go with that. You said God called you. Tell us about that. What kind of calls were these calls?

23:38Well, to do that, I have to tell you a bit more about my life. I met my wife when we were young. We grew up on a council estate. She went to a Catholic school and believed in God, although she didn't go to church. So we met, bought our first home, both of us had a job. We had our first child, then a second, and then I became ill. A rare disease, a missing chromosome. I started losing muscle and needed a stick to walk with. I was in a lot of pain. Although I was a good father, I wasn't a good partner, and things began to go wrong in our relationship. So I asked her to marry me. If I can poke her, I went all in.

24:21She said yes, and they started preparing their marriage. His wife-to-be wanted a religious wedding, and, says Jérémy, when you marry in church, It's not like when you go to the town hall registry office and just sign a bit of paper. There's a lot of preparation, which involves the asking of some searching questions. During the preparation, she realized that I was describing her as a mother, not as a woman. And we separated. Whenever it was my turn to have the kids, I went to my parents' place. But it was a bit complicated. so the rest of the time I slept rough or in my car. It was difficult to find a flat, especially because I was now disabled.

25:08But I did eventually, and then one Sunday morning I looked at my walking stick and the sling that held my arm and I looked at the sky and I broke down. I had had a heart of stone, I had never cried, even when my children were born, but then I cried and cried. I looked at the sky and the words came into my mouth and I said, what did I do to you? And a voice replied, a powerful voice inside of me that hit me like a thunderbolt. It said, no, what have you done for me? I need you. I heard it so clearly. I didn't listen though. My response was, don't understand, ignore it. I don't understand. But not for long.

26:04In the meantime, my ex had created a new life for herself with a new partner. But then something terrible happened. He committed suicide. I knew that this was a time when I had to be near my children who had lived through this trauma, near my ex as well. I was worried she'd take her own life too. It was then that I started really thinking about Jesus, how his teachings are the basis of everything. Once I had understood that, I started to take charge of my life. And everything was easy. I stopped smoking. I stopped drinking. I had even started taking drugs. I stopped that. I gave it all up overnight.

26:49People were impressed, but it wasn't me who was strong. It was the Lord who is so humble that he stoops down to raise us up. It was him who came down, got underneath me and lifted me up. It's a bit like when you play the Mario Kart video game. When you fall from the track, a cloud comes and saves you and sets you back on the track again. The Lord did that for me. With his ex, the mother of his children, they decided to have another go at marriage preparation. It was a bit weird for the church, he says, but they went with it. And Jeremy and his betrothed got through to the end and were married at last in the beautiful 13th century Saint Louis church in the middle of Yerre, where Jeremy returned not long after at Easter last year to be baptized.