In short
Freddie’s shift from a Universal Records pop career to daily Buddhist practice in Hong Kong, and how mindfulness, chanting, and monastery visits help him and his partner Carl find peace, purpose, and love.
Guest backgrounds
Freddie, a Hong Kong nail artist/nail technician who once signed with Universal Records at 19 and performed Hong Kong pop with Western covers; he later joined a Buddhist choir. Carl, his partner, also a Buddhist, described as introspective and supportive; they both practice together.
Key claims
Music industry pressures (gossip, expectations) felt like “not the right place.” A turning point came after Freddie’s dog died in a car accident and later relationship pain. Buddhism teaches the Four Noble Truths, reframes suffering, and offers liberation through observing pain and letting go. Being Buddhist doesn’t require becoming a monk; it guides behavior. Chanting and meditation create focus and peace even in a chaotic city.
Notable examples
Freddie dreams of a Bodhisattva after reading Buddhist scripture; he chants the Buddha’s name daily; he finds “pure land” peace inside the monastery near Diamond Hill; he sings again in a Buddhist choir as an act of kindness.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOFreddie's Early Career and Departure
1:54 to 2:26
Discover Freddie's rise in music and his unexpected decision to leave.
“For this episode of Heart and Soul, where we explore personal stories of faith, I've travelled to Hong Kong to find out why.”
The Turning Point of Loss
2:26 to 4:28
Freddie discusses the traumatic loss of his dog and its significance.
“Buddhism is on the rise among young people in Hong Kong.”
Buddhism and Personal Transformation
4:28 to 5:20
Explore how Buddhism provided Freddie with clarity and purpose.
“I'm still thinking, should I stay in this music industry or should I just find another label company or I just walk away?”
Understanding Pain and Liberation
5:20 to 6:31
Freddie reflects on the teachings of Buddhism regarding pain and liberation.
“And at that moment, I don't know what it is.”
Freddie's Life as an Openly Gay Buddhist
6:31 to 10:10
Freddie shares his experiences as a gay Buddhist and its impacts on his life.
“because I feel like I don't deserve to be loved.”
Carl's Perspective on Freddie's Journey
10:10 to 12:14
Freddie's partner, Carl, shares insights into their relationship and Freddie's journey.
“We're joined by Freddie's partner, Carl.”
Freddie's Transformation from Music to Buddhism
14:54 to 16:41
Freddie discusses his shift from pop music to joining a Buddhist choir.
“But it wasn't the world of pop music that came calling.”
The Power of Letting Go
16:41 to 18:00
Freddie reflects on the importance of letting go to find peace.
The Experience of Silence in Monastery
18:00 to 20:06
A description of the transition from chaos to peace in a monastery.
“because I never thought of that voice can be healing.”
Finding Inner Peace in a Busy City
20:06 to 22:06
Freddie shares insights on how to maintain peace in Hong Kong's chaos.
“This is a really good place for people in the city to relax and to have a sanctuary in their lives.”
Show all 14 chapters
Reflections on Past Life as an Artist
22:06 to 24:48
Freddie discusses his past life in the music industry and its impact on his present.
“Because things got changed every day and nothing can be lost forever, including our mind, our thoughts, our emotions, and all the things we experienced.”
True Happiness and Karma
24:48 to 27:34
Freddie explores the concepts of happiness and karma in Buddhism.
“and the most pure lotus is growing in the dirt and mud.”
Freddie's Journey of Transformation
27:34 to 28:00
Reflecting on Freddie's journey from fame to finding purpose in stillness.
“As I leave Freddie and Carl, I reflect on Freddie's remarkable journey.”
Freddie's Journey of Spiritual Growth
28:00 to 28:40
Explore Freddie's transformative journey through mindfulness and identity.
“discipline and spiritual growth through Buddhism.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Carl:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30Freddie:travel dollars work harder. Follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app.
1:00Freddie:or wherever you listen.
1:20MUSIC PLAYS
1:33Freddie:bleached blonde haircut. Freddie is full of confidence performing at shows all over Hong Kong. In 2010, Freddie had just signed a major record deal with Universal Records as he was on the verge of making it big. Then seemingly, out of nowhere, he gave it all up. I'm John Offord and this is the documentary on the BBC World Service. For this episode of Heart and Soul, where we explore personal stories of faith, I've travelled to Hong Kong to find out why. I first met Freddie here a few years ago. Back then he was already quietly drawn to a different path, one not focused on fame. Today he's fully embraced that path, dedicating his life to Buddhism.
2:21Freddie:His decision may seem surprising. It's part of a wider movement. Buddhism is on the rise among young people in Hong Kong. And Freddie's story offers a window into why.
2:33Carl:Handsome bon nature.
2:44Carl:Cross Kings Road and continue straight on. Then in 160 yards, air right on Kings Road.
2:50Freddie:So it's Tuesday morning in Hong Kong. It's a national holiday today. And I've just got off the MTR, the metro. and I'm walking towards Freddie's nail salon where he's asked to meet me. I'm looking forward to meeting him. I'm really intrigued to hear his story.
3:18Carl:Freddie, just tell me a bit more about your job. I am a nail tech right now or you can say a nail artist and I do four to five bookings a day and I met a lot of people. When I was 19 years old, I joined the record company and I was really happy about it because that is a rare opportunity for many young people. And after I joined the record company, I just found all the environment is not the right place for me because the whole environment is full of gossip and full of rumours, and there are a lot of expectations, and the days are really tiring.
4:08Freddie:Freddie was spending hours between the studio, gigging and battling the politics of trying to make it in music. But there were high hopes for him. His music was a mixture of Hong Kong pop and Western covers. He was in demand. But Freddie was not enjoying the process.
4:28Carl:I'm still thinking, should I stay in this music industry or should I just find another label company or I just walk away? And at last I just decide to walk away because I'm not good at playing this game. Yes, it is tiring.
4:48Freddie:He had a dog and that was a great source of strength and grounding for him. Until suddenly all that changed and led him on a path to faith.
4:57Carl:I was 19 years old, something happened. My dog was in a car accident and my dog was passed away and I witnessed the whole thing. And the whole floor was full of blood and I was broke down. And at that moment, there is a friend of my mom. She brings us a Buddhist scripture for us. And at that moment, I don't know what it is. I just need to do something to focus on. And I just took the Buddhist scripture and read it. And after two days, there was something magical happened. I saw the Bodhisattva in my dream and he told me something. And that is where I start my journey. So the Bodhisattva, what is that?
5:45Carl:Actually, Bodhisattva means everybody has emotions, and everybody is spiritual, and everybody can be a Buddha. And Bodhisattva means people who make the great wishes to save all of the people, not only the people on earth, and all of the people and beings in any universe, not only in our universe.
6:15Freddie:The awful moment you lost your pet dog, do you think that was a turning point for you to look for more meaning in life?
6:27Carl:Losing my pet is just a start. I start to understand what is pain. And there is so much happened. I was in a really bad relationship. Yeah. And I decided to give up myself. because I feel like I don't deserve to be loved. And I do some silly things. And at last, I went to the hospital and there was a nurse. And she said to me, Please don't come back. I don't want to see you again because you deserve a better life. And at that moment, I think I just met Bodhisattva. And she told me, I should find my purpose of life. And that is a real turning point.
7:23Freddie:Tell me a bit more about that journey, that transition to Buddhism. How did it change your life? How did your family and your friends and your partner react to this change?
7:36Carl:Being a Buddhist, some people will misunderstand us. Some people think being a Buddhist, you just... You need to be a monk. You can't be in any relationship forevermore. But actually, it's not. And after I'm being a Buddhist, and people around me, they see me changed. In any ways, the way I talk, the way I act, the way I work. And they start to, they're willing to understand more about Buddhists. because Buddhist is not just about worshipping. Buddhist is teaching us how to be a better person.
8:21Freddie:It took Freddie a few years, but eventually he learned to put his past traumas behind him, something he says Buddhism played a key role in.
8:29Carl:The Buddhism is created by the Shakyamuni. shakamuni taught us to use the four noble truths to observe our life the first thing you need to observe what is pain and i learned a lot about pain in the buddhism like suffering of old age suffering of sickness and death and also suffering being together with despite wants and suffering not getting what we want. And I start to learn about what is pain. If you learn about what is pain, then you will know more about what is liberation.
9:14Freddie:Another thing that has shaped Freddie's life is the fact he's not only a practicing Buddhist, but he's openly gay.
9:21Carl:A few years ago, before I met my partner, I think I will never get a loyal partner because I don't believe in love or any relationships. But right now, my partner, he's also a Buddhist. And I do think it is amazing because being in the LGBTQ community is not easy. And if you have a partner who is also a Buddhist, you feel really safe because we both obey the commandments together. and as a person in the LGBTQ community, I think this is wonderful to having a partner who is a Buddhist because we both have roots.
10:15Freddie:We're joined by Freddie's partner, Carl. He's 5 '9", with dark hair and a thoughtful expression, the older and more introspective of the two. he tells me freddy has always chosen happiness over fortune when you enter the industry it comes with other things that you don't want to face he was lucky he entered the international label when he was i think under 20 17 years old yeah at that time he wasn't mature to face the real world and I know that he had a little breakdown at that moment which makes him very unhappy and it twists some of his values it's very common in Hong Kong right now in the crossroad, Freddie did think that what he should do at that moment he was lucky that he found the right way he chose to be a good person so he left the industry and after we met we learned Buddhism and it's a cleanse of the whole body the mind the qualities and let him know that what is right and what he should do he is now a nail technician I always tell him first of all you need a job that you like that you are good at second i would say your skills is important but how you deal with your customers are much more important some people are very good at their work even though how good you are but if you are not good at people you won't be successful so that's why i think he lives a happy life and he's got a job that he likes and the most important is that he helped people in outer beauty and inner beauty as well what aspect of buddhism helps you both buddhism held us to peace of mind you know in relationships there's a lot of i won't say fighting but different wheels about same things or ideas.
12:39Freddie:But, you know, learning Buddhism helps us to understand more about why, what are the reasons for these happenings and how you deal with it.
12:56Freddie:You're listening to the documentary on the BBC World Service.
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13:33Freddie:I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contract. Hey, good morning. Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most. Yep, they sure are. We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place, with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right. We're so far up here. Look at me. Take a deep breath. No, I'm good. So good. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast.
14:07Freddie:Personal finance can feel like a pop quiz you didn't study for. This podcast is your study guide. On NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, you'll hear from trusted journalists who explain the why behind major financial decisions. You'll get research-backed insights and clear pros and cons, whether you're planning a big purchase or just want to grow your wealth. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow Nerd Wallet's Smart Money podcast on your favourite podcast app. I'm John Offord and for heart and soul I'm in Hong Kong meeting two young Buddhists, Freddie and his partner Carl, to find out how Freddie went from recording artist to Buddhist.
14:53Freddie:Freddie gave up on singing for fame, but the urge to start singing again soon struck him.
15:04Freddie:But it wasn't the world of pop music that came calling. He has instead joined a Buddhist choir in Hong Kong.
15:17Carl:There are so many friends asked if you want to sing again or do you want to go back to the music industry one more time. and they're surprised I joined a Buddhist choir because they think this is a continuation of my past music career. But I don't think it is a continuation of my music career. As a Buddhist, our only career is to do the good deeds, helping others and sending more care and compassion to others. And this is the real career we want to do.
15:53Freddie:Though Freddie is singing again, I wondered if he's ever tempted to go back to pop songs.
16:00Carl:Sometimes I wonder where I would be right now if I keep staying in this industry. I think I find the real purpose of singing right now. And singing is an act of kindness. And I would like to spend my whole life using my voice, worship Buddha and the Bodhisattva. and I want to find the real me in my voice and I think this is more meaningful to me.
16:40Carl:After learning about Buddhism, there is one thing I learned. If you want more, you need to let go. because if you're holding on something too tight you can never gain anything you need to learn how to let go of your past of your memories that you're stuck into yes
17:13Carl:chanting the name of the Buddha everyday helps me a lot and I do it anywhere and anytime no matter I chant it loudly or quietly and I learn how to put my focus on myself when I do the chanting I put my focus on every sound I made I learn what is where the body goes and your mind follows and this really helped me to focus on myself get rid of any chaos
17:59Carl:The Buddhist chanting actually influenced me a lot because I never thought of that voice can be healing. And I never found that my strength and power in my voice. But right now I find the purpose to sing. like your voice can bring peace to others and at the same time your voice can worship all the Buddhas and Bodhisattva.
18:26Freddie:So just finished chatting to Freddie at the nail salon with his partner Carl and now we're just walking towards the metro station to go to Diamond Hill which is an area of Hong Kong which has a monastery. In front of us, there are a lot of skyscrapers. There's a busy highway next to us. We walk from Diamond Hill MTR station to here. The station was inside a shopping mall. People there are crazily shopping, speak loudly. On the way, we came from the MTR station to the monastery. you start to feel silence. People coming into the monastery, they automatically become silent. They enter from the very chaotic world to a very different silent place.
19:32Freddie:They may have different problems in their lives about living, about working, about their relationships when people come into the monastery they only have the same direction they want to find a peace of mind and you can hear the chanting of mantra and in front of me there's a lotus pond very peaceful people are taking pictures without saying a word This is a really good place for people in the city to relax and to have a sanctuary in their lives. So I just want to ask you, Freddie, you're living in one of the world's busiest cities here in Hong Kong. Obviously, the hustle and bustle of everyday life, people going to work, the buses, the trams, the busyness of every day.
Read the full transcript
20:43Freddie:How do you maintain the silence and simplicity of Buddhism? And what advice would you give to others seeking peace amidst all this chaos?
20:55Carl:I think we are all living in the shaha world, and everybody has pain, everybody has suffering. but I think the only war is in our head and is in our mind and we can choose to stop it or we can choose to join it. The key to seek peace and simplicity are through awareness, aware of your breath, aware of your thoughts. And we can all practice through meditation. And I do think the pure land, what we call is Zuhawati or you can say heaven is not out of this world. Actually, the pure land or the heaven can be on earth. And the real pure land is in our heart, I do think. And everything is made by our mind alone.
21:51Carl:And we think we are living in chaos is because we still haven't found our inner peace. And we are stuck into situations and we are stuck in our past. And we are all controlled by our own thoughts and emotions. And somehow we just forgot everything in this world is actually a dream. Because things got changed every day and nothing can be lost forever, including our mind, our thoughts, our emotions, and all the things we experienced. If I don't understand what is pain and what is lost, I never know what is Buddhism liberation. And I know that the real peace is created in the chaos. And the most pure lotus is growing in the dirt and mud.
22:44Freddie:And for you, Carl, what does it mean to be in a special place like this today? Wow. It's a good question. I'm going to look inside. Yeah, the weather's not so good today. Yes. Cheers, I'm okay, thank you Cheers So we've just moved inside to some shelter because it's quite a rainstorm in Hong Kong today and the rain is coming down quite heavy now Just tell me, for you, Freddie, when you first got into Buddhism how important was visiting monasteries like this to you? it's like
23:31Carl:going back home and finally find a place home on earth sometimes when you go back to your real home you still got struggling and you still got problems but here you find your peace of mind yes and you find your inner peace and that is really touching and I think this is my luck to have a chance to go inside a monastery and being a Buddhist
24:08Freddie:Do you ever regret leaving your past life as a music star or do you find yourself missing the glamour and the energy of those days despite the peace you found in Buddhism?
24:23Carl:I never regret living my past life as an artist or a music star because I do think the past made me who I am right now if I don't understand what is pain and what is lost I never know what is Buddhism liberation and I know that the real peace is created in the chaos and the most pure lotus is growing in the dirt and mud.
24:55Freddie:And for you Carl, what does it mean to be in a special place like this today? When entering a monastery like that, it will help you to clear your mind, will help you, I would say, freeze your life at this moment. You give a pause to yourself and you have a moment to think about the things happening in your life under the very stable, calm mind. Just like it is suddenly raining very heavily. I think, oh, why? Why this big rain? Why this heavy rain? But under this environment, you understand that the rain will stop. It will stop. just like all the things in your life bad things, good things it will change but if I choose to worry about it it's useless it doesn't help you it's not something good it's not something bad it's just something happening right now just enjoy it this is life this is Buddhism I just wonder if you you ever think back to what life would have been like if you had stayed singing as a major artist for a major record label what life would have been like how different life would have been
26:25Carl:i didn't think about that much because i know that we cannot have all the things we want in this life and highs and lows of fame you cannot control it and I don't chase for it my highs and lows I have in this life are made by my karma if you do good things you'll get good karma if you do bad things you'll get bad karma and there is no one else to blame but only yourself I just try to be a better person at this moment because the most important thing is this moment right now yes learn about what is happiness when I learned Buddhism the real happiness is not about having a successful career the real happiness is you have the ability to help others no matter how successful you are in your career the happiness will fade away But the happiness you did, the good did, the happiness can be eternal.
27:33Carl:Yes.
27:44Freddie:As I leave Freddie and Carl, I reflect on Freddie's remarkable journey. Once signed to a major record label, he starred in high production music videos, poised for fame yet the pressure left him hollow. Now he follows a different path built on silence discipline and spiritual growth through Buddhism. Their story redefines success, embraces religious discipline in a busy city and finds peace through faith, touching on identity, mindfulness and love. Freddie's journey is no retreat but a radical reorientation to slow down in a speeding world a rare intimate portrait of life shaped by stillness, purpose and a search for something lasting beyond applause
28:39Freddie:You've been listening to Heart and Soul on the BBC World Service This programme was presented and produced by me John Offord with executive producer Rajiv Gupta. If you've enjoyed this episode, discover more at bbc.co.uk or search for BBC Heart and Soul wherever you get your podcasts.
29:16Freddie:I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor. Hey, good morning. Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most. Yep, they sure are. We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place. with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right. We're so far up here. Look at me. Take a deep breath. No, I'm good. So good. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at Geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico.
From the publisher
Freddie was once signed to a major record label. He appeared in high-production music videos and looked set for fame. But the pressure and pace of that life left him feeling hollow. In one of the world’s busiest cities, he now follows a very different path - one built on silence, discipline, and spiritual growth. Freddie reflects on his decision to leave the music industry behind and embrace Buddhism. He now works as a nail technician and shares how his beliefs shape his daily life. Alongside him is Carl, his partner, who offers moving insights into how their shared values deepen their relationship. The episode captures striking contrasts: the buzz of the city versus the calm of local temples; a nail salon’s chatter against the resonance of monastery chanting. Through honest conversations and ambient recordings, we step into Freddie and Carl’s world, where Buddhist practice offers an anchor amid chaos. This episode of The Documentary, comes to you from Heart and Soul, exploring personal approaches to spirituality from around the world.
