From rocks to riches

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0:43It's an August day in Santa Filomena, Brazil. A group of women have just emerged on a dusty red field, excitedly clutching something they've just found. Just days before, a bright fireball appeared in the skies above and hundreds of meteorite fragments rained down over the city. The palm-sized black rock they're holding might look pretty unremarkable, but its value both scientifically and commercially is highly sought after. So when meteorites crash to Earth, a race to find them begins. As soon as something falls, it's a get-up-and-go time. It's a high. It's unlike anything that it was back in the day.

1:35People are beginning to fight for the better ones. We are scientists and we have no enough money to compete with them. In this programme, we'll hear from meteorite hunters, dealers and scientists from all over the world about how interest and demand for these space rocks has boomed over the years. It's led to a lucrative trade. Is that at a cost to science and those looking to study them? it's really really difficult to explain the level of excitement and accomplishment that i feel when i find a meteorite there's really just nothing like it you know i get shaky every time you're touching this thing that's older than all of the planets and you're the first person to find that roberto vargas has traveled to countries across the globe from his home in the u.s looking for meteorites.

2:34He first got into them through a friend. For some reason, I didn't think that a regular person could own meteorites. So as soon as I held it, I just got really excited. Roberto became hooked. I bought my first one and then my second one and then, you know, 30 or 40 more after that. And in 2019, a meteorite fell in Costa Rica. I decided I was going to go hunt it. I didn't find any meteorites myself, but I was able to purchase quite a few. At the time, he was working as a mental health therapist. I was making about$50 ,000 to$60 ,000 a year. That first Costa Rican trip, I got back like on a Friday and by Monday I had sold out of the meteorites and I had made over$40 ,000.

3:24So that was a life-changing experience. So life-changing, in fact, that within a few years, Roberto quit his job in mental health to become a full-time meteorite hunter. We have a secure room, we have secure cabinets and we know everybody that comes in and out of the room. I'm down in the basement of the Natural History Museum in London. It's really hard to pick which samples to show because we love all of them so much. We love all of them. I've come to meet planetary scientists to Professor Sarah Russell and senior curator Dr Natasha Almeida. First, let's go back a bit and start with some basics.

4:06Just before it becomes a meteorite, it's a meteor. So these are the bright fireballs that you can see coming through the Earth's atmosphere. A meteorite is a rock that has landed on the surface of the Earth. And so they can come from anywhere. Most meteorites, we think, come from asteroids. But a few come from the Moon, a few come from Mars. A few, we don't know where they came from. but they're all rocks from space. Broadly speaking, there are three types, made up of stone, iron or a mixture of the two. Some are found following a fresh meteorite fall. Others are finds which may have been lying around for thousands of years.

4:47But if you are lucky enough to find one, how can you tell if it's just a rock or something from the beginnings of our solar system? As a meteorite comes through the atmosphere, the outside of it melts and forms this thin millimetre crust called a fusion crust, which is very distinctive. It may be a little bit heavier than a terrestrial rock, so we really need to get it looked at by a lab that has the expertise to do this, which will include data about the mineralogy and the chemistry of the rock. And they will send it to an organisation called the Meteorical Society, which has a committee which looks at all of the potential new meteorites and it will give it a specific and unique name and will publish it in the Meteorical Bulletin.

5:33Several networks of upward facing cameras around the world are constantly looking to detect and track meteors. The rise in technology like doorbell cameras, car dash cams and cameras on our phones also mean more and more fireballs are being spotted as they streak across the sky. Even capturing meteorites as they slam into the earth, like this one crushing onto a driveway in Canada last year. Weather radar is also used to narrow down search areas. And of course the internet has been a game changer, with eyewitness accounts now shared in an instant on social media. All of which helps hunters like Roberto Vargas know when it's time to pack up and head out.

6:21As soon as something falls, it's get up and go time. I've been on hunts where I was the only one out there hunting that particular fall. And then I've been on hunts where there were like 30 or 40 people in an area looking for meteorites. No one knows the exact number which land on the earth. Many burn up into tiny particles as they come through the atmosphere. Others land in the sea or remote areas, never to be found. But currently, just over 78 ,000 have been officially named in the meteoritical bulletin. There are more private collectors, more people are interested in collecting meteorites as a hobby.

6:57So the total number of people that are interested in buying and collecting meteorites is certainly increasing. I was a tour photographer for a number of famous musicians over the years. But we're here to talk about matters more extraterrestrial. Daryl Pitt's fascination with meteorites started as a child, following a trip to see Meteor Crater in Arizona. It was formed when a meteorite slammed into the ground 50 ,000 years ago, leaving a mile-wide crater. Many years later, I was at the Newport Folk Festival, working in the music business. and someone said, let's go to a rock show. And I was just like, okay, let's go, whatever.

7:42And I didn't know that it was literally a rock show, like a gem and mineral show. I thought it was like there was going to be a music thing. So I get to this show and there was a guy selling a chunk of a meteorite from Meteor Crater, Arizona, the same place that I went to as a child. I bought it and that's how it started. From there, Daryl started to buy more and more. I wanted to share my fascination with the world, but I also wanted to make some money. And I realized also the thing for me to do was to introduce them into the auction environment. And that's exactly what he did. I was thrilled to be able to be the person who curated the very first Meteorite-only auction.

8:25And that was in the 90s. And the prices went through the roof. It was crazy. And as a result of that, there was so much media attention that it inspired a new generation of meteorite hunters to go into North Africa, into the Sahara Desert, looking for more meteorites. How has this market increased over time? Oh, my goodness. It's gone up like crazy. It's unlike anything that it was back in the day. People are beginning to fight for the better ones. That wasn't the case before. You might be thinking, how's their value determined? Well, there's loads of factors that play into that, like its size, whether it's a complete piece.

9:06Did it hit a man-made object? Its rarity, its classification, and where it came from, among other things. You can acquire a meteorite for as little as 20, 30 cents a gram. But having said that, you need to be very, very careful. You do not want to buy a meteorong. There are so many what we call meteorongs listed on eBay. So you can get them inexpensively, but you've got to be really, really careful. You need to get them from a good vetted source with a good reputation. And frankly speaking, the auction houses are a great place to do that. Not all meteorites end up being sold at auctions. Lots are simply bought and traded amongst collectors, hunters and dealers.

9:53They can range in price from a few hundred dollars to thousands. But when rare rocks come up, the interest in them and their price tag is big. This Martian meteorite is the largest piece of Mars we have ever found. Back in July, a£54 Martian meteorite went up for sale at Sotheby's Auction House in New York. The estimate, it's$2 to$4 million. On the day of the auction, a tent's five minutes saw bids coming in by telephone and online. I'll say fair warning then. So$4 ,300 ,000. Congratulations on online. Thank you very much. The Rock was found in Niger in North West Africa in November 2023 by an anonymous hunter.

10:42It was first sold to an international dealer before heading to a private gallery in Italy and showcased at an exhibition in Rome. From there, it found its way to the auction house in New York, and as you've just heard, eventually bought by an unnamed buyer. But the story doesn't end there. Since time immemorial, objects have been taken out of our countries in sub-Saharan Africa. It's not just Niger. Unfortunately, this hemorrhage is all over the place. Professor Idi Umuru Amadu is head of the Department of Archaeology at Abdu Mumuni University in Niger. We have plenty of cultural heritage objects that end up outside the country in Western countries, either in private museums or with private collectors.

11:33Following the sale, people started asking questions about how the Martian rock ended up at auction. Niger's government expressed doubts about the legality of its exports, raising concerns about possible illicit international trafficking. It's launched an investigation to determine the circumstances of its discovery and sale. We have to wait for the instructions given to the different ministries in order to shed light on this affair so we can know how the meteorite left, who removed it and whether its removal was authorised, who issued the authorisation. Only when we have all these details can we make a judgment.

12:16Although the Niger government has stated it doesn't yet have specific legislation on meteorites, it does have laws in place protecting its cultural heritage, including rare mineralogical specimens. Normally objects like that, cultural items that leave the country, are supposed to be accompanied by an authorisation from the administration, depending on the field they belong to. You have to apply for it, and once it's granted, then the item can legally leave the country. If that's not the case, then it's theft, it's looting. Sotheby's told us that the meteorite was exported from Niger and transported in line with all relevant international procedures and all necessary documentation was in order.

13:02It added it's aware that Niger has raised a question about the export and are reviewing the information available in light of the question raised. Our power, our room for manoeuvre is to draw everyone's attention to it. Then it's up to the authorities to ban all this. They have the power to enforce and apply the law. That's pretty much the reaction of us scientists. There's nothing else we can do about it. I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the boardroom, the newsroom and the trading floor. That's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive. But even though I've got questions, join me, Merrin's Upset Web, every week for my show Merrin Talks Money from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists and experts about how markets really work.

13:52And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions and how to make those markets work for you. Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

14:05The auction of the Niger-Martian meteorite and the subsequent fallout has shone a spotlight around the commercialisation of space rocks and the question of who owns them when they fall to Earth. Laws and regulations vary massively from country to country, as Professor Sarah Russell explains. So, for example, in Australia, there is no export of meteorites allowed whatsoever and there's a very strict law and policy in place there, whereas in the UK there are no specific laws. We've got a very supportive network of colleagues across the world and we will always collaborate and discuss with our expert colleagues in each country to find out what the laws are and what their views are about the best approach.

14:53One of those experts is Professor Hasna Shinawi, a planetary scientist based in Morocco. There are thousands of nitrites that are collected in the Moroccan Sahara and those rocks can be extremely rare and important. Professor Shinawi isn't against the trade, but has spent decades working to try and better control it. Before 2020, there was no regulation. But now we have law dedicated to heritage in Morocco. This decree has two parts. One dedicated to the collection and the second is dedicated to export of nitrites abroad. Are these laws being respected and followed as they should be? To be honest, it's not followed as I wanted it to be followed.

15:50The problem is that people are still exporting nitrites without legal authorisations. And when people are not exporting legally, they are not invited to give the coordinates, the place, how many pieces have been collected, so the information about the rock. So this is a loss of important scientific information. And Morocco isn't the only country which is trying to hold on to its extraterrestrial finds. There are others too. Our team is called Az Meteoríticas. Amanda Tosi is a meteoriticist based in Rio de Janeiro. She's part of an all-female team working to preserve Brazil's meteorites for scientific study.

16:37When a fall's witnessed, they drop everything and head out to far-flung deserts, cities and jungles to try and recover any space rocks. We practically stopped what we were doing and we go to hunt this new meteorite.

17:00because to be the first one makes all the difference the difference being the chance to get ahead of the competition we go to there as a scientist to get specimens to study but when we don't find one ourselves we have to buy a fragment the most problem is collectors and hunters, dealers, they start like an auction and it raised the price. We are scientists and we have not enough money to compete with them. So it puts us at a disadvantage. It's a big, big challenge. One which they faced following the Santa Philomena Fall back in 2020.

17:55Despite Amanda and the team being the first scientists on the ground, within days the area was filled with hunters, collectors and dealers. The field was flooded by local citizens too and fastly they realised how much money they could make with these rocks. It's a poor city. For them, it's a lot and makes big difference. Amanda saw for herself the difference it did make, no matter how small. I saw a little boy with a stick, with a magnet. He tried to find a meteorite like us. The next day, I found his aunt, his mum, and they were completely excited because his mum has founded a piece of meteorite.

18:54Remember those women at the start of the programme? This video was the moment that they found this piece of meteorite that was sold to buy his first bicycle.

19:13We don't want to ban the purchase, the sale, because when you have commerce around the meteorite, you stimulate people to looking for. And these people find important meteorites. If you ban, we will have less samples to study. But we need to have a balance to protect the meteorite as a cultural heritage and the science to ensure that we'll have enough specimens to study. Because of that, we need a law. Right now, people can just buy a meteorite here in Brazil and travel with it to another country without any concerns. Rodrigo Vesuli is a space law researcher. He's part of a working group in Brazil pushing for new laws.

20:11Every meteorite that falls in Brazil has to be registered here. After the owner has mandatory to give a small piece of it to scientific research. That's exactly what we don't have right now. But also the Brazilian certificate of this meteorite. So only with this certificate, the meteorite can be exported to other countries. Without this certificate, it means that meteorite has been smuggled. Amanda and Rodrigo tell me that rare Brazilian rocks have left the country and scientists have only learnt about their existence after they've been sold abroad or once officially classified. When a meteorite is officially named and recognised, a sample of either 20 grams or 20%, whichever is less, does have to be donated.

21:08It's then given to an official repository so that scientists from around the world can request to study it. But if scientists want more or other specimens, they're left competing with the commercial markets, all reliance on donations from conscientious dealers and collectors. Professor Sarah Russell says it can leave the scientific community at a disadvantage. When really unique samples are found, these can potentially kind of give us a portal into a new part of our solar system that we hadn't been able to explore before. and if we don't have that opportunity to get that rock then we won't be able to learn so much about the space around us and that will have impacts on planning future space missions for example and the space industry in general.

21:59Because there's so much interest in meteorites in the private sector as well it means that the prices get driven up and it becomes harder for museums and other scientific institutions sometimes to get hold of particularly the very precious meteorites. 900 ,000 euros. As appeared to be the case during another auction earlier this year. A massive iron meteorite weighing 240 kilograms went on sale in the Netherlands. It was part of the Gibeon Fall, first documented in Namibia in the 19th century. Institutions and museums were among the bidders, but it was eventually sold to an anonymous private buyer in America at a cost of over$2.4 million.

22:43Of course, pieces like the Gibeon aren't coming to the market every day, but meteorites are recognised as a valuable commodity. And in some countries, that's having real consequences.

22:57This news report describes a haul of 77 meteorites intercepted by police in western Argentina last year. The rocks, weighing a total of 40 kilograms, were found in a car headed for Chile. They'd come from Campo di Cielo, one of the largest meteorite-strewn fields in the world. Their combined value on the international market was an estimated$400 ,000. We have now this black market. We have a very big amount of meteorites going outside Argentina, from very small pieces to very big ones. Alejandro Lopez is an astronomer and anthropologist from Buenos Aires. The Argentinian pieces are protected by Argentinian laws.

23:43These pieces are heritage of the province and heritage of the nation. And for this reason it's illegal to have some of these pieces without any special permission for scientific studies or something like that. But despite the strict laws, attempts to smuggle the protected rocks out of the country continue. In 2022, another weighing 400 kilograms was seized at a port in Uruguay. It was reported to be worth a million US dollars. Alejandro says they're seeing important material leaving the country. Many of these are for private collections in the United States, in Europe, in different parts of the world.

24:26Some of them are selling in eBay, for example. but the very big pieces in many occasions are cut in more small pieces to have more money selling these separately. But in same occasions with very, very, very big pieces, some collectors pay a lot of money to have these at their home. And usually these pieces disappear from the view of the rest of the world. Some issues connected with our past, our heritage, are not for business, are for knowledge, are for perspective. Please make a business with another thing. Our current temporary resident is a piece of the Bennu asteroid. Back in the basement of the Natural History Museum in London, Dr Natasha Almeida shares me a recent arrival to their collection.

25:17So the OSIRIS-REx mission actually travelled to the asteroid Bennu, picked up pieces and brought back samples. So lots of us have been working on it. The world of meteorites is certainly a collaborative one. Many collectors do make samples available to scientists. And of course, the market drives people to look for them. But Professor Sarah Russell says it's a delicate balance. Many professional meteorite hunters have gone out to the deserts and have found a huge number, thousands of new samples, some of which are absolutely unique and special and are really important for us scientifically. But the problem becomes if the market is such that we're priced out that we're not able to get these samples in the hands of scientists who can really learn from them.

26:09In trying to achieve that balance, it would be easy to assume that the scientific community might not always see eye to eye with hunters like Roberto or dealers like Daryl, but they argue it's not that black and white. There is no other scientific discipline where the public has played as great a role in the advancement of that discipline than meteoritics. There are many new classifications of meteorites that have come about in the last several years, and all of this is a result of what was stoked starting with the auctions, and science has benefited tremendously. And the last thing that I want to do, and that any other conscientious person who's involved in meteorites wants to do, is interfere with the advancement of science.

26:55There are some people in the scientific community who don't like meteorite hunters. We've been called pirates. Yes, we are financially motivated, but we're also scientifically motivated. We want these rocks in the hands of scientists. We want these rocks in institutions preserved for future generations. We want to see these rocks protected and taken care of and studied. And so Roberto waits patiently for the next meteorite fall and wherever it may take him. I am always ready to go. At a moment's notice, I could be called away. And it's excitement. It's adventure. It's risky. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

27:37I'm Emma Ford and you've been listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the boardroom the newsroom and the trading floor that's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive but even though I've got questions join me Merrin's upset web every week for my show Merrin talks money from Bloomberg podcasts where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers strategists and experts about how markets really work. And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions and how to make those markets work for you.

28:11Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.