Fruit Wars!

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0:53This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

1:09Welcome to the Fifth Floor from the BBC World Service with me, Farunak Amidi. The BBC World Service broadcasts in 45 languages around the world. Every week here at the Fifth Floor, we bring you the best of those stories in English. Coming up, the tale of bloody revenge behind one of Ukraine's most beloved saints, Olga. And does a name define character? She repaid cruelty with cruelty, one could say, but also cunning. All Olgas I know are the opposite of what I am as Irena, okay? I am kind of peaceful and peacemaking and generally agreeable, or so I think. But Olgas that I know are very forceful, very straightforward, very uncompromising.

1:59So I would like to be a bit of an Olga, but I am not a nurse.

2:09But first, the Atomoyo Custard Apple is a much sought after fruit grown only in one county in Taiwan, and the Taiwanese are justly proud of it. Meanwhile, the Musang King Durian grown in Malaysia is also highly prized for its unique flavor as the Hermes of durians. Every year, fruit lovers across the region look out for these treats and snap them up where they can, often paying very high prices. In recent years, farmers have seen opportunities to raise their income by selling these niche, super luxury fruits on the Chinese market. But the strategy comes with big risks too. Koyu from the BBC's Singapore Bureau has been to the market and she's here with me now.

3:00Koyu, welcome to the fifth floor.

3:02Koh Ewe:Hi, happy to be here. So for anyone listening who's not had a chance to try any of these fruits, tell me, what are they like? What do they look like? What do they taste like? What do they smell like? Let's begin in Taiwan with the Atomoya. It's a hybrid of custard apple species. So it looks very much like a custard apple. It has green, scaly exterior with really sweet, white custardy inside with these little black seeds. And in Malaysia, there's the durian. You may have heard of it or you would have heard of how it smells like. It's often defined by this really pungent smell, which people say smells like rotting flesh.

3:48Koh Ewe:But people who love durian, go back to the far, they think it's amazing. It's really sweet. If you see a durian, you will definitely recognize it. It's this big, green, very thorny, prickly kind of fruit. In order to eat it, you have to break it open. And inside, you'll see this really custardy, yellow, creamy flesh. And the point is that both of these are quite niche fruits. Like when you talk about a custard apple, it's not any custard apple. And when you're talking about a durian, it's not any durian. But why is that? So when we talk about the artemoya specifically, it's not just any custard apple for the Taiwanese.

4:31Koh Ewe:In Taiwan, it's seen as this symbol of Taiwanese pride. And most of it comes from this one specific county in Taiwan called Taitung. Here is where most of the artemoyas are cultivated and then exported. And what about the durian? As for the durians in Malaysia, durians can be found in Thailand, Vietnam, across Southeast Asia, really. And when it comes to durians, the biggest producers are actually Thailand and Vietnam. But in Malaysia, they take pride in this special variety of durian called the Musang King. So this particular variety came up a few decades ago. And it's become really popular, famous for its taste.

5:18Koh Ewe:Unlike regular durians that are a little bit hot and sweet, the Musang King, it can be really sweet, but it has this aftertaste of bitterness, like a wine. Wow, interesting. I'm really keen to try them, to be honest. So they're true delicacies, basically. Who buys them? Right, so the Atemoya and the Musang King in Malaysia, a lot of the consumers are actually locals themselves. But in recent years, over the past decade, we have really seen Chinese consumers coming up as this force in both the artemoya and the durian market. Why? That's a lot to do with the increase in spending power that we've been seeing among the Chinese middle class over the past couple of decades.

6:10Koh Ewe:Along with this, spending power comes with a growing taste for imported fruit. In the case of durian in Malaysia, specifically the Musang King durian, it came up after a couple of Chinese Hong Kong tycoons specifically mentioned this durian as something he really liked. And that really sparked off a wave in mainland China for this specific durian. It went viral, basically, and everyone wanted to try what it's like. So it's a show of status as well. It really is, especially for the durian. It's not cheap at all. It goes for maybe 20 pounds for one kg of durian. So in China, it's often exchanged among businessmen as like a kind of gift, a status symbol.

6:56Oh, wow. So how have farmers responded to this situation?

7:02Koh Ewe:Right. In both cases, this Chinese demand has really encouraged farmers to get into farming this food. We can see that in a lot more pronounced way in Malaysia. About 10 years ago, when Musang King durians became all the hype in China, we saw this boom in Musang King production. A lot of farmers, a lot of people who weren't originally farmers, got into farming for this. And a lot of people who were already farmers pivoted from other crops into durian. But durian trees take about 5 to 10 years to really mature and start bearing fruit. So over the past 2 or 3 years, we have seen this surge in durian supplies in Malaysia, which is also the reason why prices have suddenly fallen over the last few weeks.

7:58Koh Ewe:This was quite a shock for Malaysian farmers. But it's been something that they have been battling for a couple years now. these fluctuations in prices caused by these new players coming into the market and having their durian spare food now. What are farmers or governments saying about this situation? Is there any alternative? Well, in Malaysia, the government is very much welcoming of this Chinese demand. In fact, this is part of what we could call China's durian diplomacy. Besides Malaysia, they've signed a flurry of trade agreements with Southeast Asian durian-producing countries. They're framing it as a celebration of bilateral ties.

8:44Koh Ewe:But it also dovetails with a lot of their investments in this region. For example, there's this China-Laos railway which passes through Thailand. Now, it's a major way that Thai farmers are using to transport their durians to China. And likewise in Malaysia, they signed an agreement in 2024 to export fresh durians from Malaysia to China. And that has really encouraged a lot of farmers there. But when it comes to the Atamoya, it's a bit different, the story. Tell me about it. It is. So in Malaysia, the authorities, the government is very much keen on meeting the Chinese demand. In Taiwan, it's a bit of a different story.

9:29Koh Ewe:It's the opposite. In fact, they're quite wary of China's massive demand for this fruit. And they have reason to be so worried. They are saying that China has this strategy, which they have dubbed raise, trap and kill. Basically, they first demonstrate a huge demand for certain fruits. They make large purchases to show goodwill and encourage farmers to grow them. And then when the farmers are hooked, they unilaterally impose export restrictions without any warning. We've seen that happen previously with artemoyers, which is what the Taiwanese government is warning about. In 2021, China actually imposed bans on Taiwanese custard apples, claiming that they had concerns about pests in these fruits.

10:22Koh Ewe:Taiwan authorities deny this claim. They're saying that China has very opaque rules about importing these agricultural crops, and they're actually using these rules as a tool to punish rivals. In 2023, China partially resumed these imports of artemoyers, but only for certain producers. And the following year, 2024, they slapped import taxes on these artemoyers. So the Taiwanese government is basically saying, we have seen this happen before. So before you start trying so eagerly to meet Chinese demand, be careful if they suddenly withhold this demand from you. And if they withhold the demand, what kind of signal will that give to Taiwanese farmers?

11:06Would it be possible that they will start growing their own atomoyers on the mainland?

11:10Koh Ewe:That's possible. And actually, that's a very valid fear among the Taiwanese authorities. just saying, hey, look, China has a record of being able to grow foreign fruits really well. We've seen them do this with European grapes, you know, the varieties that they use to make wines. And we've seen them do this with premium Japanese fruits. And the Taiwanese government is saying that China is already experimenting with growing its own artemoya. So it won't be long before they achieve some kind of self-sufficiency. and it will be leaving the Taiwanese farmers out to dry. Has China responded to these Taiwanese allegations?

11:53Koh Ewe:Right, they have. They're basically saying it's unfounded. And what they're really trying to do here is to support Taiwanese farmers. They're saying that the Taiwanese government under the Democratic Progressive Party is trying to sow discord between farmers and these Chinese officials and companies that actually just really want to buy food. Thank you, Koyu. Thanks to Koyu in Singapore.

12:23You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

12:31How did the United States build the largest soft power empire in the world with the help of some tiny metal objects? I'm Tristan Redmond, one of the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. To mark 250 years of the United States, we speak to Roman Mars of 99 % invisible. This soft power, this influence was an incredible invention. For more, listen to the Global Story on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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15:35A statue of St. Olga is a much-loved figure in central Kiev in Ukraine. So much so that when Russia invaded Ukraine, the statue was given a flak jacket with the words, she needs armor, written on it. St. Olga of Kiev is celebrated by Ukrainians and Russians alike. She's a saint in both the Catholic and Orthodox churches, and her Saint's Day is celebrated on 11th of July. BBC Ukrainian's Irena Taranyuk has been exploring her sometimes violent history. So Irena, you actually share a birthday with Olga's Saint Day. Were you supposed to be called Olga as well? You know, it's funny that you should ask that.

16:22I didn't know until very recently that 11th of July is St. Olga's Day. And actually, in naming tradition of many Ukrainians, children were given the name or baptized because of lack of imagination. When children were baptized in a church, they were normally given a name of the nearest same day. So if I were baptized in a church, I would have been baptized Olga. and God save me from that fate because all Olgas I know are the opposite of what I am as Irena. I am kind of peaceful and peacemaking and generally agreeable or so I think. But Olgas that I know are very forceful, very straightforward, very uncompromising.

17:11So I would like to be a bit of an Olga but I am not a lass. So would you say that, because as you mentioned, Olga is a very popular name in that region. Is it seen bestowing certain traits, like as you mentioned, like being a fighter? Absolutely. Olga's are named after the princess Olga of Kiev. And she is titled equal to apostles. So she is equal in the stature in the church to the apostles of Jesus Christ. Why? Because she was the first one to be baptized into Christianity from Byzantine Empire. and her grandson, Vladimir the Great, baptized the whole of Kievan Rus'. You know, there were pictures of Kievites on the banks of River Dnipro receiving baptism by water.

18:11So that's why her standing in the Christian religion is so high because she herself converted from pagan faith that was prevalent in her native lands of the time and she adopted Christianity. So she has become a Christian saint. So let's get to know Olga's backstory a little better. Back in 10th century, Ukraine didn't exist as the country that we know today. And Olga belonged to people called the Rus. Tell us, who was she? What was she doing and what happened to her? Neither Ukraine nor Russia existed in the 9th or 10th century. But Kiev was a very powerful principality, one of many, like Pskov, like Novgorod, local principalities of the time that were right on the trading routes between North Scandinavian tribes and South Greeks or Byzantium.

19:16And the birthplace of Olga, also known as Helga, is not quite known because she is claimed by Pskov Principality. She is claimed by Bulgarians. She is claimed by Galich, kind of Western Ukraine. So there are a number of origin stories of Olga slash Helga. What we know for sure is that she had some Scandinavian extraction. Basically, it would appear that the life, the origin is obscure, but the proper chronicle of Olga's life begins with her marriage to Prince Igor of Kiev. And she is mostly famous for how she revenged his death on the tribe of Drevlians, which was a competing tribe. And this is pretty much the story full of legends and how she is portrayed in the Chronicle of the Bygone Years, which was written a number of centuries later by Kiev monastery monks.

20:21So you said that her story really picks up after she marries Prince Igor of Kiev. Tell us why. What happens? Quite unusually, she was thrown into the position of extreme vulnerability and extreme power at the same time. She was the regent to her young son, Svetoslav, after Prince Ihor was killed by Drevljans in 945. He was collecting tributes from the tribe, and Drevljans thought that the tribute was too much, So they captured the prince, they tied him to two different trees and tore him from limb to limb. So it's really gruesome death. And that probably explains the gruesomeness of Olga's revenge that came after it.

21:12You know, which part of it is true? Which part of it is legend? We don't know because there is the tale of bygone years has echoes from, you know, Nordic sagas and all sorts of fairy tales. But, well, what can I say? 9th century, 10th century seems to be a very cruel period of history. So she's also the patron saint of widows. And that's obviously because of Igor's murder and then how she took revenge. But she's been portrayed as someone who took very brutal revenge. She repaid cruelty with cruelty, one could say. but also cunning, because she was vulnerable as a woman in charge of principality of Kiev, and she was responsible for the life of her son.

22:06But Drevljans sensed weakness. He is a widow. She is weak. And Kiev principality is rich. So they sent matchmakers. They wanted Olga to marry a Drevljans prince called Mal. and they sent a delegation to ask for her hand in marriage. She knew what their designs were, so she dispensed with the delegation proposing marriage in a very inhumane, probably, way because she pretended to be considering this proposal of marriage and in the meantime she asked her minions to dig a massive hole in the ground and they were buried alive in that massive hole. Yeah, that was revenge number one. But that wasn't enough for Olga.

23:02So she sent word that she would like Drevlians to send a more representative, richer delegation to Kiev if they want to seek her hand in marriage. So another delegation came, encompassing a number of prominent Drevlians. And she said you have to wash before the feast. So they went to a sauna and were locked in there and burnt. And again, I insist, Ferenac, that we say this is all part of the chronicle and gruesome fairy tale. I don't think that real life cruelness of her revenge measured up to what is being depicted in later years. That kind of ruthlessness was quite common among leaders, men of that time.

23:50Absolutely. That wasn't enough for Olga, OK, because then she sent the word to Drevliens that she's going to come and organize a massive wake for her murdered husband, Prince Igor, near Drevliens land and their capital is Korostein. So Drevlin sent their best warriors to that wake in honor of Igor. And how they organized wakes in those days, according to the Chronicles, they put up a massive mound and organized something like war games, I would say, you know, almost like a jousting competition. And when everybody was drunk, she ordered her own soldiers to murder the Drevlians and the best soldiers were murdered.

24:38And a year later, she marched on Drevlians in the capital. She couldn't take it. And then she won by cunning. She basically told the residents of Iskorosting, you're going to starve to death. Let's stop this. I have had enough of revenging my husband's death, and I know that you are poor probably, so all I want from you is a small tribute of one pigeon and one sparrow from each household. And Drevlian's houses were made of wood, so at night she instructed her soldiers to burn a piece of tinder tied to the little legs of all those birds, and birds flocked home, burning their houses because everything was built from wood, so everything went up in smoke.

25:30City dwellers, town dwellers were killed while escaping the fire, and those who survived were sold into slavery. So that was the four revenges of Olga that went down in history and have been depicted with different degrees of detail by different chronicles. Yeah, well, Olga as a widow, she was quite a ruthless... Not to be trifled with, basically. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But she's also known as a patron saint of converts. Why is that? Because she traveled to Constantinople, the capital of the mighty Byzantium Empire in modern-day Istanbul, and she is believed to accept baptism from the Constantine, Emperor Constantine himself.