Haitians living in fear in the Dominican Republic

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30So come find the undiscovered you in South Carolina. Visit DiscoverSouthCarolina.com. From GEICO Subconscious News, I'm Tammy Racing Thoughts broadcasting from your brain. You think you live in a pretty safe place, but you just heard about a break in four miles away, which isn't close, but it isn't far either, you know? Art Palpitations is on the scene. I sure am, Tammy, and I don't even know why I drove out here, because as you know, you got customized renter's insurance through GEICO, so your stuff is covered. Oh, well, that's great. Any sign of crime there, Art? Just some light littering, Tammy, but like they say, a little litter can lead to a lot.

1:02Wise words. It feels good to worry less. It feels good to GEICO.

1:17Early morning yoga on the beach, on this soft sand with the waves lapping at the shore. Or perhaps you'd prefer some gentle meditation with soothing music. The Dominican Republic has become the number one tourist destination in the Caribbean, though many of the visitors barely leave the giant five-star resorts with their manicured lawns and welcoming swimming pools that skirt the coast of this island called Hispaniola. Many of the workers who built these places and look after the tourists' requirements are in fact Haitians escaping the poverty, violence and instability that reigns back home in Haiti, in the west of this island.

2:00But the Dominican government says they must go. Last year, the president announced an extraordinary target of expelling undocumented Haitians at the rate of 10 ,000 a week, arguing they're a security risk. Now, many Haitians here live in fear of being rounded up day and night. and being sent back to an extremely precarious existence in the Western Hemisphere's poorest country. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. I'm John Murphy, and in this week's assignment, we'll be travelling across the Dominican Republic, meeting Haitians caught between a rock and a hard place.

2:46The beach resorts of Punta Cana are at the centre of the tourism industry here. In 2024, 11 million holidaymakers visited the Dominican Republic, the same number as the whole population of the country. Spanish is the official language, but it's not hard to find Haitian Creole being spoken around here, and many of the shops are run by Haitians. Hi, how are you? Oh, how are you all days? We've been brought into this shop which sells all kinds of goodies, his T-shirt, dresses and booze on the shelves. It's owned by Desiree and one of his shop assistants is 24-year-old Gregory. How long have you been here?

3:27Like three years and a half. I'm from Haiti, like a hench. It's sited by Port-au-Prince, the capital of Haiti. I just terminated my classical school and university, everything, just come here for work. I just left Haiti because I can say Haiti, there's no life. It's not good, there's no work there and they killed our president. I can say from Haiti to come here, it's not easy. But I'm just cool, I'm here. So you don't have the official papers to stay here in the Dominican Republic? I got no paper to leave here. And the president here never gives the Haitians paper legal, the legal paper. Haitians do everything here in this country.

4:04We do contractions, shops, we do tourists, because it's only the Haitians who speak other languages. They use us, but they don't want us. Have you personally seen raids by the immigration people? There's immigration for the Haitians here every day. I think today they came at 3 or 4 in the morning. 3 or 4 in the morning? Yeah, because Haitians know they're going to come. The Haitians go out earlier, and they know that they come earlier. So it's like cat and mouse. The Haitians try and leave early before the immigration people come, and then the immigration people come even earlier to try and catch them.

4:39Yeah, they come before. Every day they go to a different house. Today I got a friend. He said to me, immigration was here. They took three of my friends. But I'm just waiting for her because they're going to come in my house. But I'm just waiting for her. I'm still surviving though. So far they've not come to your house? They're going to take me and I'm going to go to Haiti. You think they will do that one day? When they take you, if you don't want to go, say, please leave me alone. They're going to hate you. They're going to strike you so hard and they can kill you. The president will never say nothing because even the president don't like Haitians.

5:11And then will you come back again? I prefer to die in my country. I will never come back here if the immigration takes me here, get me go back to Haiti. But do you think there are some Haitians who get sent back and then come back again? Every day. They take you here, get you go back to Haiti. The same people who take you here, take the money from you to come with you. It is a game. They're playing with us. So money is changing hands with the immigration people. Yeah. It is a business. corruption. Many Haitians work in Punta Cana, the main tourist area in the east of the country, but few can afford to stay there.

5:46Instead, they live in poor neighbourhoods in places like nearby Friusa. We're just a few kilometres from the big posh hotels and this is a world away as well. masses of little trucks and motorbikes, lots of little shops and salons, hairdressers, and our drivers saying that 80 % of the population here is Haitian. This place grew up because of all the construction workers who came to build those massive complexes for the tourists. You can see all this Haitian commerce. My name is Santiago Molina. For about 40 years, fighting for the human rights of the people, especially for the Haitian people and now more because it's not easy you see that the president sent to Haiti a lady pregnant with a baby and sent to Haiti in one truck with bad condition what you're saying is that they are expelling even pregnant women or women with small babies they are sending them back to Haiti they sent to Haiti and some lady of them died Right now, Haiti is not in good condition right now.

7:00No, it's in a terrible condition, to be frank. So why are you saying to trade a woman to Haiti? That is very bad, man. And at the same time, many people with different kinds of problems, they're afraid to go to the hospital. Because they need to go to the hospital, but they don't dare go, in case the immigration company gets them. No, immediately. In each hospital of the Dominican Republic, there's an immigration office there. In the middle of someone Haitian goes there, the doctor calls, hey, we have one Haitian here. And the Haitian people don't want to go to the hospital. Many Haitian people prefer to die in the house and don't go to the hospital.

7:42Nobody knows exactly how many Haitians are here. A figure of half a million illegals is often quoted by the government. There are also people of Haitian descent. But activists like Santiago say even those born here, and with the correct paperwork, are being swept up. For some Dominicans, though, even this intense level of expulsions isn't enough. An extreme nationalist group marched through these very streets recently, demanding all Haitians be sent home. Santiago filmed it on his phone. So what I can see is hundreds of people wandering along with flags. Yeah, it's in the same road that we are right now, three or five months ago.

8:27That happened because a lot of Dominican people don't want Haitians here. They're saying, get out. Get out, yeah. So what did the Haitians do? The Haitians had to go to another place that day, close their business, close the door, and with the children had to go out because they tried to give a problem to the Haitian people here. and I should point out that Santiago himself is not Haitian. You are from Dominican Republic. Of course, I am Dominican. Many people think, oh, you are Haitian. No, I only fight for the human rights of the people and the Haitians are humans. Some people in Dominican Republic think they are not human.

9:09Of course they are human and they need help. The system immigration, the company immigration, taking money of the Haitians. A little bribe. Yeah, they take the money of them. They take the cellular, they take everything of them. So they take their phones and they take their money. Yeah, it's business. Well, and then they come back. If you want to go to Dominican Republic, you have to give it 25 ,000 pesos, for example. So 25 ,000 pesos, that's about 400 US dollars. So if you have that money, you can pay and get yourself back into the country. Yeah. If you have a lot of money, you don't have problem.

9:45If you don't have money, you go to Haiti. And that situation has to change. We have to think they are people. A lot of Haitians live in constant fear that they or their loved ones could be picked up by the immigration authorities and sent back across the border to a country riven with gang violence, sexual assaults on women, as well as political and economic insecurity. Santiago's taking us to meet a woman who lives in a tiny, stiflingly hot two-room apartment. My name is Derival. I am 36 years old and I'm from Haiti. I am from Port-au-Prince. I have been here for five years in the Dominican Republic.

10:30Derival's daughter was taken recently in an immigration raid. The immigration people have sent her back to Haiti. And how old is she? She's 16 years old and she's been sent back to Haiti. How did that happen? I was out at work in a local restaurant and the immigration people came and broke down the door and took my daughter away. I didn't find out until three in the afternoon when immigration had already taken her to the centre in the capital. She spent four days there without being given anything to eat or drink or wash. she slept on the floor and only had a T-shirt on. She didn't even have any shorts on.

11:15That's all she was wearing when they took her away, just in her T-shirts. She managed to borrow a phone from another Asian to call me and tell me what happened. Then they took her to the border. Will it be possible to get her back here? No, there is no hope of bringing her back because there is no harm of getting a visa. And if you wanted to do it illegally, by bribing people and getting across the border, it's super expensive. If she got here, it would be very difficult to leave. I don't sleep in these rooms where we are. I am worried about immigration people coming, so every night I go up to the hills to keep myself safe.

12:02Where do you stay in the mountain, in the hills? Life up in the hills is very difficult and dangerous. There are armed men who steal our phones, steal our stuff if they can. And it's especially difficult now when there is rain. There is no shelter in the mountains. I have to stand under trees and sometimes I have to take the young children with me. Have you ever been caught by the immigration? Yes, the immigration took me from work. For two days, I was given no food. Then on the third day, I was taken to the frontier and left there. The second time when I was taken, they broke into the house. I gave them some money to leave me alone.

12:57I am very, very frightened of the immigration people. I've come across them now three times and when I think about them it gives me a headache. It makes me feel ill. My heart beats so fast I think I might die of a heart attack. Derival's daughter was eventually picked up at the border by her uncle who brought her some clothes. She's still in Haiti. Just to clarify, Dominican law says minors, breastfeeding women and the elderly should not be deported. The government claims it's only targeting illegal migrants and is respecting all human rights. Many of the people caught, like Derival's daughter, are taken hours away to a notorious processing centre outside the capital, Santo Domingo.

13:49Approaching the detention centre, it's become an industrial zone now and along this road There are shacks where people seem to be living. And here's one of these infamous yellow school buses, ex-American school buses, which are used to bring the detainees to this place, Heine.

14:13We've come to these large grey gates with local journalist Simon Rodriguez, who's helping us with this story. So those are the gates of the famous Heiner Detention Centre. Yes, so people who are brought in, detained, they go through those gates. Also if they're released, they'll come out from there. There are a few people hanging outside. Yeah, one of the things about this detention centre, which is worse than a regular jail, is that people who are detained can't get access to a lawyer. they won't let family members in either to see people who are detained. So in some sense it's worse than a regular jail.

14:58One of the problems is also all of the process is quite arbitrary and disorderly. So there are no clear statistics as to how many people are deported, how many people are detained. There's a lot of obscurity regarding statistics and processes. There are one, two, three, four, five people on this side of the road just sitting on the ground, and there are four others over there. Some of them have brought little camping chairs, and they're just all waiting for news of family members who may be inside.

15:32His child was detained on Tuesday, so he's here to find out if he has been deported or if he's still here. What age has the child? This year. He's 15 years old. 15, so he's a minor. So in theory, he shouldn't be here at all. He says, well, this is a regular thing that happens as part of normal migration work. And your name? Bolines. How long have you been in the country here? I'm not... Oh, you speak English? Yeah, I have 25 years already here. 25 years here? Yeah. OK. What job do you do here? Construction. Construction? Yeah. OK. But do you have the papers? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have. Does your son have the papers?

16:16Yeah, the son, he lives in Haiti. His son was visiting from Haiti and he was caught on Tuesday. How long will you wait? We'll wait as long as necessary. When he was taken, he did not have his cell phone, so there's no way to communicate with him now. There's a female guard that's appeared at the metal door there and our friend Lenas is now talking to her. He's stepping inside. So Lenas has now been able to step inside and the door has been shut. This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

16:54This is not the future we were promised. Like, how about that for a tagline for the show? From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work and your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

17:27I'm John Murphy on assignment in the Dominican Republic. We've travelled two, two and a half hours north of the capital, Santo Domingo, to the area of Monte Plata in the countryside. We've come off the main road and we're now going very slowly along this bumpy dirt track. Haitians have been living in the Dominican Republic for generations. We're on our way to visit Abate, a settlement created for sugarcane cutters, where they've kept many Haitian traditions, including a love of spiritual music known as Gaga.

18:11A beer to encourage the music to flow. I'm being given a plastic cup of beer. Maria's our guide here, but first up, it's Gaga Queen Mirabel. So, Mirabel, tell me how important this music is to your community. This is very important, we enjoy it, we celebrate it in the Holy Week because it's part of our culture, our tradition and we enjoy it Who's your audience? For anyone who wants to enjoy it Where does it come from, this music? It comes from Africa, it's an African tradition With all the drums and the pipes and the singing and I've seen videos of women dancing. Is that what you do? Yes, she dances.

19:03You're the queen of the dance. One of the queens. There are several queens. What's the role of a queen?

19:15So she takes a leading role, coordinating the whole group. When you're performing Gaga, what do you feel? I feel very happy because this is something I like a lot. So I believe the government prefers merengue music, which they think is much more Hispanic. Is there a comparison between the two types of music?

19:37They have in common that they have the drumming, drumming from African origin, but perhaps the gaga is more tropical as compared to merengue, which perhaps is softer. Because this is an Afro-descendant tradition, the government doesn't like African traditions or black people. They don't like the gap for this reason. So does merengue also have African roots, do you think? Haitian, Dominican, it all comes from Africa. This particular bate, with its rickety-looking wooden and corrugated iron shacks, was originally set up for sugar cane workers in the 1940s. But there's no cane left here anymore. So what do people do for work today?

20:33Young people who have their documents usually work in construction in the capital. Young men, for example. Those who do not have documents usually stay in the community. Have they tried to come here, the officials? They have been told that the migration was coming and that halfway they decided to turn back because the road was too bad. So that's a good thing you have a bad road. Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of power. Maria, I know you were born here of Haitian parents, parents who came from Haiti. Do you feel in your heart that you're Haitian or do you feel you're Dominican? Bueno, yo soy Dominicana.

21:14I feel Dominican, yet I also feel I have Haitian blood, so I also embrace my Haitian part. I am a Dominican of Haitian descent. There's been a long, turbulent history between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. In the early 1990s, thousands of Haitians and Dominicans of Haitian descent were pushed across the border, while tens of thousands of others fled to avoid forced deportation. Most notoriously, in 1937, historians estimate that between 9 ,000 and 20 ,000 Haitians were killed in the border area on the orders of the Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo. Coming towards the border, as we've approached it, there have been more and more military checkpoints.

22:02We've just gone through another one, but they seem to be more interested in the vehicles going away from the border, checking those.

22:12And now we're approaching the commercial area of Comendador, which is very close to the border. So we're with Abraham. He's born and bred in this area. He's a consultant for a non-governmental organisation and he's taking us to the border with Haiti.

22:34Abraham seems to know everybody here. Just said hello to a policeman. and there are some more Dominican soldiers just here in front of us in their khaki uniforms. So we're trying to be a bit discreet, so I'm recording on my phone and we can see into Haiti, a bunch of 4x4s, pretty beaten up ones and motorbikes and here's a man with a wheelbarrow coming from the Dominican Republic taking a sack of something or other into Haiti. I've seen onions go through. and being warned not to take any photos or videos. The soldiers did photograph us and examine my colleague's press pass. It seemed like the right time to leave.

23:25We've just come round the corner from the main border crossing here in Comendador and there's a new fence that's been built. concrete slabs at the bottom, topped off with metal grills, and on top of that, rolled barbed wire going all along, altogether about two, three metres high. And there's a big, large concrete watchtower, and this is part of the tough anti-immigration policy, building a border wall, rather like President Trump announced for the Mexico border. Abraham, how much of this new wall is there here? Six kilometres. So it's six kilometres. And how much of the new wall in total do you think has been built along the border?

24:12As far as I know, in Dajabón, there are around... Which is to the north, to the northern border. Around 20 kilometres of fence has been built. And next to the other official crossings is where they are investing more in the development of the border wall. from the total of 200 that they would want to build, which is around half of the total extension of the frontier. So the plan is to build 200 kilometres? Approximately, yes. And this is another part of the president's policy to keep Haitians out.

24:49We got as close as we could to the border fence. Now we're waiting up the road for the daily arrival of deportees being sent back to Haiti. Here they come. There's a big coach, says Dirección General de Migración and Control Migratorio, the next truck. It looks like a police truck that you keep prisoners in. And there are several of them coming along now. These are migrants who have been taken from Jaina, the centre near the capital. They're heading straight to the border now. They genuinely look like trucks you might keep prisoners in. There are high grills at the top. And so far we've seen a couple of coaches and about four or five of these trucks going by.

25:42Apparently full of what are supposed to be Haitian migrants, illegals, heading back to the border. How often does this happen, Abraham? Every day, every day, he's saying. I mean, we saw six just now. Is that an average number?