Hong Kong's bookstore raids

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0:42Plus, check out our weekly flyer on Menards.com for all the great deals happening now. Save big money at Menards. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

1:08Welcome to The Fifth Floor with me, Tharanak Amidi. The BBC World Service broadcasts in 45 languages around the world. Our job here at The Fifth Floor is to bring you the best of those stories in English and to also get you closer to the extraordinary work our journalists do. Although the spoken languages in Hong Kong and Taiwan differ, With Cantonese being spoken in Hong Kong and Mandarin preferred in Taiwan, the two territories use traditional Chinese characters for writing and reading. This has created a strong bond between them in the field of book publishing, with many books sold in Hong Kong being published in Taiwan.

1:50This year, authorities in Hong Kong have cracked down on booksellers under national security laws. Hong Kong's government argues these are necessary to maintain stability in the territory. But critics say they're simply crushing dissent. Concern is now being felt in the publishing industry in Taiwan. With me are Joyce Lee from BBC Chinese, who is based in Taipei, and Abel Yu, also from BBC Chinese, who is based in Hong Kong. Both of you, welcome to the fifth floor. So Abel, I'm going to start with you in Hong Kong. what's been happening to bookstores and booksellers this year? I would say this year has been a significant turning point for independent bookstore in Hong Kong.

2:33Like since March, Hong Kong National Security Police have raided four independent bookstores and arrested a total of 11 people on suspicion of selling a largely seditious publications. And actually, after the national security law implemented in Hong Kong in 2020, we have already seen a lot of books on sensitive political issues being removed from the public libraries. But in this year, it is the very first time that the police used the national security law to raise arrests and have criminal infestation targeting the bookstores. Under the national security law, the seditions will be punished up to seven years in jail and maximum of 10 years.

3:16And also if the facts involve collusion with an external force, the maximum punishment will be the 10 years in jail. And what do the Hong Kong authorities say is behind their alleged actions? From the police statements, they said that the bookstore were allegedly displaying and selling the suspicious publication, which is against national security laws. And they also seized boxes of books during the race. The authority is saying that they are not targeting the bookstores themselves or their political fields, but they are targeting the contents of the books. And the security chief keeps repeatedly saying that the government has no intention to create the blacklist of banned books.

4:00So they have no intention of creating a blacklist? Yes. So how are people going to know what is banned and what is not banned? Actually, the booksellers couldn't know, but the security chiefs say that the booksellers have the responsibility to ensure the books they sell do not endanger the national security. And after the raids, what happens to the bookstores and the booksellers or the employees of the bookstores? At this stage, 11 people have already arrested in connection with the race, and all of them now are released on bail. But beyond the rest, there are also border-chilling effects on the industry.

4:39Bookstore sellers have become more cautious about what they store and what they sell. So authorities say there's no official list of banned books, but online people are naming certain books that could be targeted by these raids. Do we know which books they are? What are the contents of them? And how can we be sure that they are the intended target? Again, we cannot say for certain as the police do not have confirmed the book list. But there's two books involved at least that the local media have reported that. The first one is The Troublemaker, which is a biography of the former pro-democracy media tycoon Jimmy Lai, who was sentenced to 20 years in prison now because he's involved in national security case.

5:29And in the most recent race in July, another book that may have been included is Let Only Red Flower Bloom, Identity and Belonging in Xi Jinping's China, which is written by NPR journalist Emily Fung. This book is looked into the experience of people who were suppressed by the Chinese government, including the human rights lawyers and also the people who documented COVID lockdown in Wuhan. Mm-hmm. How have people responded to these raids and limitations? I think different people have different responses. In recent raids in July, we can see a bookstore employees were taken away by the police, but she is wearing a T-shirt with a simple slogan that I'm a bookstore employee.

6:16And these photos went viral online and people keep hashtag this quote, I am a bookstore employee to like show their support for the bookstore workers and also the freedom of express in Hong Kong. But for the bookstore sellers, they are in limbo. So they, what they can do is just keep checking their books in their bookstores. So Joyce, I want to come to you right now. How has this story impacted Taiwan? So in Taiwan, a lot of Taiwanese people saw the bookstore employee being arrested. And that reminds Taiwanese people of the white terror era in Taiwan in the 50s until the late 80s, just before Taiwan turned into a democracy.

7:09So during the white terror martial law era in Taiwan, possessing or discussing banned books in secret reading clubs was treated as treason or sedition. And in that period of time, tens of thousands of people faced interrogation and long prison sentences or even execution based on suspicion. So it really reminds Taiwanese people of that scary period in history. And in terms of the publishing industry, Taiwan and Hong Kong both use traditional Chinese characters. Basically, the two markets are closely linked. I would argue that they are actually the same market. It's cheaper to publish books in Taiwan in terms of the labor cost and logistics, storage and printing.

8:03So a lot of books in traditional Chinese are actually printed and published in Taiwan before shipping to Hong Kong. And we have spoken to a few Taiwanese publishers and one of them said that 60 % of his books are sold in Hong Kong. So after the police raids in Hong Kong, some publishers said that they predicted the Taiwanese industry will likely move towards e-books or focus more on the Taiwan domestic market because of the legal risks involved when shipping books to markets like Hong Kong. What is the risk for publishers and booksellers in Taiwan regarding these crackdowns? So I guess the main thing publishers have to guess what, you know, the Hong Kong police is not happy about.

8:56And that would create a lot of legal risks for every stakeholder in the publishing industry, including authors, including publishers and also logistic companies. So these people, if they are thinking about traveling to Hong Kong or simply transiting through Hong Kong, they may have to consider the potential legal risk. Also, so without question, touch on the sensitivities of the Chinese and Hong Kong governments. Books about these topics will be heavily self-censored given the climate in Hong Kong. For Taiwan, it remains the freest publishing base in the Chinese-speaking world. But as the risks increase, publishing politically-themed books will likely be more and more difficult.

9:52But interestingly, when a book is alleged to involve illegal or politically sensitive content, it can also spark curiosity among Taiwanese readers and also boost the sales significantly. For example, for the Blossoms of the Red Flower book, hinting about Xi Jinping, that book had an additional 10 ,000 copies printed right after the police raid in Hong Kong. So that is also something really interesting. In Iran, also, there are extreme limitations on book publishing and stuff. But parallel to the official publishing industry, there is an underground publishing industry that is continuously publishing illegal books, be it online or even hard copies.

10:44Does such an industry exist in Hong Kong and Taiwan as well? Yeah, a lot of Taiwanese publishers, they are exploring more ways to go online and doing e-books. Because online, it's harder for Hong Kong authorities to ban any content. If Hong Kong readers are buying online books in the digital platform, they can maybe use a VPN or do it elsewhere. and it's hard to track that down. So it's definitely a way that people are exploring right now. That was Joyce Lee and Abel Yu from BBC Chinese. You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Series.

11:35Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.

12:09So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.

12:43and eviction operations carried out by Moroccan authorities. Residents have been left uncertain about their futures, and the lack of transparency has also left people questioning what the real reasons are behind the demolition campaign. One of my language service colleagues, Hanan Razek, from BBC Arabic, has been following this story and speaking to locals. And she joins me now. Hanan, welcome to the fifth floor. As always, great to have you. Thank you, Farhanak. It's always a pleasure to be with you. So Hanan, tell me a bit more about the neighborhood, Al-Mohit. Where is it located? What kind of a neighborhood is it?

13:22What does it look like? So Al-Mohit neighborhood, or as some Moroccans would call it, Lotion, which means ocean in English. It's one of the oldest neighborhoods in Robot. It's at the heart of the capital city and it's overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. It was originally a home for local working class residents and modest households. But in the last two decades or so, it has seen a lot of incoming foreign residents, creative spaces, and it's become home to a mix of middle class Moroccans as well. The views there are amazing. You can walk on the Atlantic coast and it blends historic architecture with a lively community feel.

14:11Sounds beautiful, actually. It is. The demolition campaign began in 2024. But how did the story actually come to you? Well, interestingly enough, I was actually in Rabat in Morocco earlier this year. We were covering the African Cup of Nations for football, which Morocco hosted. And I remember one day we went for a walk, me and the team, and we saw a number of buildings, one after another, overlooking the coastal line. And they were either demolished or partly demolished. But there was no sign of why this was happening. You would see like a whole floor intact, but then the floor above or underneath would have no windows and is partly demolished.

14:57And it was such a striking scene. And in some parts, actually, we saw banners surrounding buildings or some parts of the area saying development and reorganization of the city. So we thought or we were under the impression rather that this was part of a big redevelopment project. project. But then we started to learn more and more about it, especially that recently some residents were asked to evacuate their flats and they weren't told what the reason was. And then we decided to dig more into the story. And you got a chance to actually talk to some of the locals, some of them who've been evacuated or evicted from their homes and some who are still living there.

15:40What were some of the things they shared with you? So some of them were telling us that their lives turned upside down and for different reasons. So some of the families there are willing to vacate, but they're not happy with the compensation. And just to explain that part, when the government asks for evacuation, they do offer compensation. But the offer is around 13 ,000 Moroccan dirhams, and that's around$1 ,300 per square meter. Whereas the current price per square meter in the area starts at around 33 ,000 dirhams and that's around 3 ,500 US dollars. It is one of the most expensive areas in Rabat.

16:25So for people living there to be offered this compensation makes it very difficult for them to actually stay in the capital city. So they have to leave their lives behind and move somewhere else completely. So one of the residents we spoke to was telling us that he was willing to evacuate, but the price is very little to what he can afford because he moved to his house a few years ago with his family and he used all his savings to get a mortgage to pay for this flood. And he's still paying off the mortgage. So he cannot just leave with his wife and two kids. So he said it's very difficult for them.

17:09And this is why he decided to take legal action. And the affected families have the right to challenge the compensation amount in court if they deem it unfair. And on this ground, he's going to court. There is the story of this man who had been living in Al-Mohid for 50 years. And all of a sudden, they tell him he has to leave. Yes, that's one of the pretty emotional stories. Sufyan and his father used to live there in Al-Muhid for 50 years. His mother passed away a few years ago, but she's buried in a cemetery very close to the area, which adds another emotional layer to why this neighborhood means a lot to him.

17:55He filmed himself going on a little tour around the area, and he stopped right in front of the rubble of what used to be his home that no longer exists.

18:12One of his words that actually struck me, and it still stays with me, when he said that his memories just vanished with the rubble. What is the explanation for it? So what are the authorities saying they're using the land for? There hasn't been a clear explanation. And we tried to get in touch with the authorities, but we haven't heard back. But we know that the Moroccan interior minister stated last year, actually, he said that what's happening in Al-Mohit neighborhood is just part of projects aimed at eliminating shanty towns and aging urban structures. And he said that the demolition and the rehousing operations have been underway for years under a project that is called Cities Without Slums that started in 2004.

19:07And this is part of it. But some of the residents would argue that their homes were not slums and their homes were legally built. And this is why they still cannot make up their mind about why this is happening. There have been no announcement of what projects will take place on this land. But there have been some of the residents voicing their concerns and speculations about the timing of the demolition. And that it coincides with Morocco preparing for the 2030 World Cup, which it will be co-hosting along with Spain and Portugal. We have no way of verifying, but we've been hearing this from residents who wonder what projects will come up, whether it will be a public entity or more private development.

19:59What is life like for people who are still living there? For those decided to stay, the struggle is, they say, it's beyond the financial concerns. So I go back to Ismail, for example. He said that his children ask him every day, whenever they hear the demolition works outside, if they will be forced to leave the neighborhood where they were born. He also told me that the rubbish collectors have stopped coming altogether to the area because it's now viewed as a neighborhood that's slated for disappearance. So their daily lives, it has completely changed and shifted. We haven't been hearing, until now at least, that there are more plans for more demolitions to take place.

20:46But there is still a big question what will happen to those who, for example, decided to stay in their buildings and they are not willing to leave. Thank you very much, Hanan. Thank you, guys. That was Hanan Razek from BBC Arabic. When reporting on this story, Hanan reached out to Moroccan authorities for comment, but have not received any response yet. Around the world, the last day of exams is always a big deal. It's when you might blow off some steam and have some fun with your friends after some tough months of studying. For a recent pharmaceutical technology student in eastern Nigeria, he left his last exam and ended up going viral on social media due to a special gift that was waiting for him.

21:34Adesola Ikula Julo of BBC Pigeon reported on the story and he joins me down the line from Lagos. Adesola, welcome to the program. It's great to have you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So this young man, his name is Promise Okoro, and he left his final exam. What gift did he receive? Yes. So Promise Okoro, a young boy, I mean, still in his 20s, actually received a surprise gift of a goat. A goat? Yes. By who? From his mother. I mean, very interesting one. his own mother, an aged woman, probably in her 60s, surprised him with a live goat in school. So she took the goat to the campus? Yes. And the distance from her own location to the campus where she went to surprise the son is, I mean, about an hour interval.

22:36So you could have imagined, you know, having to carry all of the old goats into the vehicle, moving it around and all of that. So it's such a good one. Yeah, that's commitment. So Azizola, let's just talk about the last day of exams in Nigeria, because it seems like it's quite a big deal. It is also known as a signing out ceremony. So tell me, what does usually happen in this ceremony? On the signing out day, as it is called in nigeria it's like the last day of your examination and is always marked with a white shirt where all of the graduating students will have to put on white shirts and their colleagues will write their names or append their signature on each of those shirts like a memory to always keep along to show that oh this person was my course mate or when you get back home you just look at your shirt and you see oh you see different names and you can recall and say oh this person was there while I was signing out on the final day of my examination.

23:40So tell me, do students usually get gifts? Yeah, students often, you know, they just get money, do contribution and say, oh, let's buy ourselves gifts, just something very small. And one of the high points of that is the fact that the last day of the examination is when some people or some lovers can decide to pull up a proposal to their lovers and say, oh, today is when I'm going to pop the question. And some come, you know, they come with money bouquet. Some will come with cakes. You have hampers and all of that coming. So it's as big as that. But now having somebody bring a goat is a total surprise.

24:25So let's go back to our young man with his goat, Promise. Promise is from the Igbo community in Nigeria. And I reckon goats are quite significant in their culture. Yeah. In fact, if you are doing anything in the Igbo tribe and you don't have a goat, it's like you've not started yet. It's like a status confere when it comes to that tribe. And it's because they see that as if you are able to purchase a goat, you're able to buy a goat, it means that you have some level of affluence. affluence you know you have the money to do this and animals really carry deep cultural meaning as far as the Igbo tribe is concerned it you know it converts a meaning of honor pride love and you know respect for a certain person if you're going to greet an elderly person and you go with a goat it's like oh wow you've given me the highest form of respect that anybody could You know, other people could just go with maybe kola nuts.

25:32You know, some could go with a wine. But you go as far as bringing a goat, wow, you really mean something. It's a form of appreciation. And just to add, in the Igbo tribe, when you are getting married, you have goat as part of your list that you're going to bring for, you know, the bride family as a sign that we are coming to marry this person. So it's like the highest form of respect, appreciation and goodwill. What was the reaction of the other students on the campus when they saw a goat on the campus? So initially you are expecting that within your colleagues, you're going to be seeing people putting on, you know, white shirts.

26:16but then in the midst of hundreds of students you are seeing a grown-up woman traditional attire wow what could be happening all of the students they brought out their phones started filming you know the joy was so much that some couldn't contain so for them they received it with so much excitement and the surprise was all over all over even in all the videos i've watched when i was tracing this boy for the story, I could see that everybody was surprised and was filming the mother and the way she held the goat walking like a lone ranger in the campus. So that was something so surprising to them.

26:57The video went viral as well online. What kind of things were people saying? The reception online was what gave the story more meaning because people had expected that a male child would probably see his mom with a goat and want to run away. But for promise, he embraced it. But then a lot of people have comments like, oh, such a proud mother and a proud son. Oh, this is awesome. This is what every son should emulate. This is what every mother should emulate, at least to appreciate their sons, their children, while doing something that is worthy, at least to appreciate them. Great story. Thank you so much, Adesola.

27:38Thank you so much for having me. Adesola Ikola Jollou from BBC Pigeon. That's all from me, Farhanika Amidi, and the rest of The Fifth Floor team. Thanks for listening. And if you want to let us know what you think about the show, or you have questions for our amazing correspondents, send an email to thefifloor at bbc.co.uk. That's thefifloor, all one word, at bbc.co.uk. You've been listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

28:14Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad, and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.

28:47So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.