How Belarus silenced its free press

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1:03It feels good to Geico. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

1:15Alina Isachenko:Estás escuchando The Fifth Floor. The Fifth Floor dinliyosunos. Vizim le calo. Tomi ha ektai The Fifth Floor farnak amidi sobat. This is The Fifth Floor, at the heart of global storytelling with BBC journalists from all around the world. I'm your host, Farhanak Amidi.

1:43Until the end of March, BBC News Russian was the only source of independent reporting in Belarus, where journalism has been suppressed by the government of Alexander Lukashenko. But on March 25th, Belarus added the BBC to a list of extremist materials, meaning that it is now an offence for people in Belarus to like or share BBC content. BBC Russian's Alina Isachenka came into the fifth floor studio to explain the situation. What we know is that the Belarus Cultural Ministry have published the document, according to which there was a court ruling which declared BBC Materials extremist. But this has been going on for quite a while now.

2:29Oh, yeah. Ever since presidential elections in Belarus, Lukashenko's regime had launched a crackdown on independent media. And we can say with certainty that now there is not a single independent media which hasn't been declared extremist. And we're talking about 600 plus media items. Most of them have been forced out of the country and now currently in exile. And also what we know is that there are over two dozen journalists currently in jail in Belarus. What does it mean for an outlet to be labeled as either extremist material or extremist information? Because from what I understand, there are two different levels of extremism, isn't it?

3:14Exactly. So extremist materials, let's say it's a lighter one, even though you can't really call it in this context. So if let's say a person opens BBC News Instagram page and likes some post, he or she can face up to 15 days in jail or administrative fine. This happens if it's extremist material. But once a media organization is declared as extremist formation, this is a completely different story. Anyone who consumes that could face up to seven years in jail. And this is a real sentence. Imagine just reading an article and being prosecuted for that and spending seven years behind the bars. And Alina, why is it that people in Belarus prefer to read news articles or news reports on social media rather than actually using VPNs to bypass censorship and filtering?

4:10We're still learning that because for us, it's a relatively new story. We only had the hearing end of March. So from what we understand that people in Belarus are not used to VPN yet, because until now they could enjoy free access to BBC. And since they still have access to social media, it's kind of easier for them to go to. Also, Telegram is quite big in Belarus. So we can see that a lot of people could go and read our content there or access other social media channels. And it's quite interesting because in Belarus, unfortunately, they apply law in reverse order. So even though BBC has been declared extremist materials now, if you liked our article from 10 years ago, you could potentially face a jail sentence.

4:58Oh, wow. So there is no escape. So many media outlets suggest their users to delete any traces, to unlike everything that's been like and to just delete content online. And Alina, what's happened to all the journalists, bloggers who are creating content and producing news reports on platforms, independent ones? What are they doing right now? So most of them have left Belarus and are now working in exile. But according to the Belarus independent body, there are currently 22 media workers are still behind the bars. We saw some of them being released thanks to the efforts in the US. However, many of them still remain behind the bars.

5:45You cannot possibly work inside Belarus being journalists now. It's a pass to jail. So those who are lucky escaped and many, unfortunately, are still behind the bars. Also, it's interesting that in 2025, Reporters Without Borders ranked Belarus 166 out of 180 countries, according to the World Press Freedom Index. So we are at the bottom. So things have changed a lot since the election, the 2020 election. Can you tell me about how it has changed? So 2020 elections saw the biggest protest uprising in the modern history of Belarus, undoubtedly. Millions of people marched the streets and opposition has disputed the results of the election.

6:32So since then, Lukashenko's government has launched a massive crackdown on protesters, on free speech, on NGOs. We have almost zero NGOs in the country. All independent media has been kicked out. BBC has been blocked. There is no freedom of speech. You cannot walk in the streets of Minsk and just freely discuss politics. People feel really suppressed. People would even fear now opening our website. So it just shows you the scale of the government crackdown on independent thinking that has been launched. And tell me about the role of Russia and this whole repression of media and information. Yeah, it's interesting because Belarus is always seen as the puppet to Putin's regime.

7:18However, it's interesting because in this particular situation, Belarus has almost paved the way to Russia because the election was in 2020. and the Russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2022. So a lot of the tactics of declaring media extremists, of jailing journalists, Russia borrowed from Belarus in this particular regard. But of course, if you look at the wider picture, we are always synchronized with Russian authorities. So if there is certain crackdown in Russia, be sure it will happen in Belarus and vice versa. So you are from Belarus yourself. Yes. And you cannot go back. Not since 2020.

7:58I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. I'm in the same situation. So I totally understand. It's very difficult. Are you able to see your family outside in the third country? My mom luckily lives here, but I can't see my grandmother or father back in the country. But it's interesting because Belarus authorities always say it's fine to come back. It's the same with you, Dave. Really? And once you return, they have some criminal proceedings against you. You won't be able to leave. You can enter, but you cannot leave. The leave is not guaranteed. Like Hotel California. Yeah, exactly. So tell me about how BBC is adopting its output and the way it works to both protect its journalists and audiences.

8:44Yeah, absolutely. So we had a big audience from Belarus and many Russian speaking people love reading about Belarus, both inside Belarus and outside. So for us, as you correctly pointed out, it's now all about maintaining our reach, but protecting the safety of our audience. And we will, of course, look at the ways to expand it. But the safety for us is paramount. And if you can get administrative arrest for a like, it becomes really serious for anyone in Belarus consuming our content. There is an article anyone in the BBC News Russian can read about things such as, can you read our article? Is it safe?

9:27Can you like our stories? Can you access our TikTok? So all these day-to-day things for people in Belarus to explain whether they are safe or not to do so. BBC, of course, has condemned the Lukashenko's move. Obviously, we can't stop people from accessing our materials. But what we wanted to do is to make sure people know the consequence. People know that if they like BBC News Russian Instagram post, they might face administrative charges. If they share our post on Facebook, they can face up to 15 days in jail. So it's important for us to inform our audience that it is unfortunately no longer safe to consume our content.

10:10It's actually quite interesting because I used to work with many people inside Belarus for an interview, for a comment, etc. And I feel less and less comfortable in doing so because for them, just speaking to the BBC, they can face potential consequences. Since we are now declared extremists. And this ban, what do you think it tells us about the future for Belarus when it comes to media and freedom of information? I'm just freedom for people. Currently, as of now, there is no freedom of information in Belarus. There are government propaganda and all independent media has been either kicked out or deemed extremist.

10:52What we see is the tendency. So once a media organization is deemed, is declared extremist material, sooner or later, it will be declared an extremist entity or formation. So it can only get worse from now on. I don't see this becoming any better anytime soon. It's really, there is some hope when we see these journalists and political prisoners being released thanks to the US effort. But it's quite interesting. It's almost like one in one out in Belarus. You see the headlines of 250 political prisoners being freed. And next day, Lukashenko jails another 100. So we don't see how this could change anytime soon, unfortunately, at least now that the war, Russian-Ukraine war is in full swing.

11:39Thank you so much, Alina. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thanks to Alina Isachenka, a BBC Russian. You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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13:33This is The Fifth Floor and I'm Farina Kami Di.

13:41Peace talks between Iran and the United States seem to have stopped, at least for now, while the blockade in the Strait of Hormuz remains firmly in place. But there is another unexpected player drawing attention here, and that is Pakistan. Somehow, Pakistan has managed to stay on good terms with both Iran, its neighbor, and Iran's regional rival, Saudi Arabia, with whom it has a defense pact. To find out how Pakistan is balancing these high stakes, competing relationships, and even creating opportunities out of them, I'm joined by BBC Persians, Mohamed Faziri. Welcome to the Fifth Floor. Great to have you.

14:23Thank you for having me. So Mohamed Jan, let's start with Pakistan as the mediator in the Iran-U.S. peace talks. Was that a surprise for international observers? Well, it looks like it to be a surprise. In fact, to be honest with you, Pakistan has never been in a mediatory role in that sense. Nobody has seen Pakistan as a mediator, except, of course, a few decades back in the late 60s, wanted or unwanted, intentionally or unintentionally, Pakistan was involved in the first visit by the American president, Richard Nixon, to China. In fact, Pakistan was the country where Henry Kissinger arrived.

15:06And from there, they went to Beijing. So since then, you haven't seen Pakistan except for the usual things that you see on the political scene. When you look at the region and the past events in the past 20 years, always, especially in relations to Iran and its nuclear program, the traditional sort of mediators are Oman or one or two other Arab countries in the Virgin Gulf area. So yes, in fact, that was a kind of a surprise that suddenly Pakistan came in as the country, and for very good reasons as well. What happens is that the traditional mediators like Oman, these countries were involved one way or another in the recent activities and the recent tension and war in the region.

15:52So it would be sort of out of question to bring, say, Oman, which is part of the Persian Gulf countries, bringing in even Turkey to some extent because of the presence of NATO there. Then suddenly Pakistan was the obvious choice. And in fact, Pakistan chose the moment, not necessarily for this fact, but also for other complications that Pakistan were perhaps facing. And what are some of those complications? You see, Pakistan has got a long border with Iran, over 900 kilometers, very close to 1 ,000 kilometers. Iran was the first country that, in fact, recognized Pakistan after the separations and independence in 1947.

16:37During the time of Shah, what happens is that Shah was actually an ally of the United States of America in the region. India, from where Pakistan got its independence, was an ally of the so-called Eastern Bloc, supported by the Soviet at the time. And so what happens if Shah of Iran was the first country that actually recognized Pakistan, technically bringing Pakistan into the fold of the American, the Western Bloc, in a sense. Don't forget, you've got only Afghanistan between the then Soviet Union and Pakistan. So the danger was there. The official name of Pakistan is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

17:27Around 200 million populations. You have around 35 million to 50 million, depending on different estimates, Shia Muslims. Is that the second largest Shia population? I think it's the second largest. After Iran. Yes, by some estimates, it's the second largest Shia population in the world after Iran. So you have the Shia population and the Shia relation with Iran, but that's relationship with Saudi Arabia as well. The Pakistan and Saudi relations is very, very complex for various reasons. Both are Islamic countries. Both are, except for the number of Shias in Pakistan, both are Sunni countries. and for years Pakistanis have been actually residing and living in Saudi Arabia.

18:15I can say based on some estimate 2.5 million expatriates, Pakistanis are working in Saudi Arabia and it is a source, a large source of amount remittance back to Pakistan. It's a very, very good source of money for Pakistan as well. And actually Pakistan is a country that needs financial support. It's not necessarily a very rich country. It's in fact a poor country and also needs a lot of, you know, oil and gas and all that stuff. So it relies on Saudi Arabia in that sense. So they come together very, very close. And that has gone for years, almost since the beginning of the independence of Pakistan as a nation.

18:59Saudi Arabia is also helping Pakistan because of its own financial strength and bail out Pakistan on many occasions. And therefore, this relationship is very close. Also, one important fact is that Pakistan is the scene of rivalry between Iran and Saudi Arabia at the same time. You should go back to the 80s when there were confrontations between Shias and Sunnis in Pakistan. One supported by Iran, one supported by Saudi Arabia. And Saudi Arabia is also trying to woo Pakistan into a country that gives it what they don't have. And that's the military and that's the defense. And that connection is also very close between the two countries.

19:49Now, there is another problem. The problem is that Pakistan, a couple of months back, at the end of last year, Pakistan signed an agreement. a strategic agreement with Saudi Arabia. And it's a very important agreement. It is an agreement that encompasses all different kinds of military help. And in fact, it's an umbrella that Pakistan was supposed to give to Saudi Arabia, quote-unquote again, a rival of Iran. So Pakistan in this war at the moment finds itself on a very difficult situation, walking on a very tight road. Yeah, sticky situation it is. It is. Either you go on one side, you have on one side Iran, you have on the other side Saudi Arabia.

20:34You have relations with both of them. So what can I do? And this kind of relationship that Pakistan has with Iran and Saudi Arabia, what kind of situation does it make for Pakistan in the Iran-U.S. conflict and the talks? To be honest with you, when you look at it, Pakistan at the moment has all the ingredients to be a mediator in the region. So seizing the moment. Are there really genuine advantages for Pakistan in this position? Well, it seems so. Pakistan needs to actually showcase itself as a kind of country that is actually helping reducing the tension, a player in the region. a player that can actually bring out some good results.

21:25So that is the political front. What kind of genuine insight can they bring to these peace talks as a mediator that other countries can't? I believe at this juncture is the trust. As the trust apparently seems to be the key word here. Pakistan is a kind of a trust that apparently Pakistan has. because for most Iranians and large sections of the Iranian government and also the United States of America. So that trust is there. Field Marshal Asim Mounir went to Iran for the mediation, stayed there for three days. It has never been such before. He was only accompanied by its own entourage only, no other people.

22:10Pakistan is very much trusted by the United States and the current sitting president, Donald Trump. He calls him usually the field marshal is doing the good job. So that trust is there. Although I should also mention there is also some sense of distrust among some sections in Iran and the United States. But I believe Pakistan is trying to say to both parties in this war that you trust me. Pakistan is Iran's intersection in the United States because Iran and the United States do not have relations. And it's Pakistan that represents Iran in the States for political things and all that stuff. So the trust apparently is something that at this moment, Iran and America seems to be sharing regarding vis-a-vis the tensions in the Middle East.

23:01Also, I am sure that Pakistan would also get some benefit financially. because at the moment, for example, just a couple of weeks ago, Pakistan opened six transit routes to Iran. So that technically means that because of the blockade and the issues with the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz, what you have there, you have the source line and all the commodities, basic commodities and everything going into Iran from the Pakistani southern ports, especially Karachi and Gwader. Now, one theory is that Pakistan is involved in the mediations between Iran and the United States. So it's a gesture of goodwill from a friend, from a neighbor.

23:52So it's a good gesture there. At the same time, it opens up the roots for Iranians. That would be a lifeline for Iran as well, because things that are going or used to go to Iran through the Persian Gulf, the Strait of Hormuz and Iranian ports can be now taken to Iran from the two important southern ports of Pakistan, Karachi and Gwadr, and then through the border to Iran. And on the other side, it is very important for Pakistan, as I said, and open up a huge market if things especially settles down in the region, opening up all Pakistani markets to Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and more importantly, to the Central Asian Republics north of Iran.

24:42And at the same time, all of this is happening, and also Pakistan just received some financial help from Saudi Arabia. Oh, yeah. To settle some debt. That's another matter in the region. That's another complexity you have there. Just a couple of weeks ago, United Arab Emirates actually asked Pakistan to repay over$3 billion, which they had already given to Pakistan to bolster a lot of economic things. And overnight, that$3.5 billion were paid. Who paid? According to all the reports, it was the Saudis. And according to Financial Times, it actually came in. 3.5 went out back to the United Arab Emirates.

25:28You know, the amount of money, it actually decreased Pakistan's foreign exchange reserve. And Saudis actually paid that. Now everything back to normal. So that rivalry is also there. And do you think they can continue walking this tightrope for how long? They have been doing it. It's very difficult million dollar question, but they have no choice. They have no choice. They have to have actually this walk a tightrope and keep the balance. Otherwise, it would be very disaster for Pakistan getting involved into a war that they don't want. Thanks to Mohamed Vaziri from BBC Persian.

26:21Alina Isachenko:They always like half step away from a big breakthrough because it just takes one good acquaintance, right? One good opportunity for them to get access to something really important. It seems in most of the cases, in 90 or maybe even 99 % of the cases, it doesn't happen. But what if it happens? Journalists from the BBC's 43 language services are here to help you make sense of the world. Everyone online was talking about how there's a man who was in Kenya and he was going about in malls and really public places and meeting women. And somehow these videos had ended up online. We sort of built the evidence to suggest that it could be being filmed on smart glasses.

27:07To excite your curiosity.