Iranians in London

0:00James Reynolds:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30James Reynolds:Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

0:33Rahah:You're not at the office. You're solving murders in the Scottish Highlands. You're not in your car. You're in a candlelit carriage on the way to the ball. This winter, see it differently when you stream the best of British TV with Britbox. Catch new original series like Riot Women. Let's start a riot! New seasons of fan favourites like Shetland.

0:52James Reynolds:A body's been found.

0:53Rahah:And unparalleled collections of Jane Austen, Agatha Christie and more. It's time to see it differently with Britbox. Watch the free trial now at Britbox.com.

1:08James Reynolds:Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC Conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. This time, I'm in central London to meet Iranians. This area of London, just north of Oxford Street, one of the city's busiest shopping areas, has almost every international cuisine you could possibly imagine. If you want Chinese, Indian, Turkish, even Scandinavian, you can find a restaurant or a cafe right around here. And that reflects the rich cultural diversity of the UK's capital, home to immigrants from around the world for hundreds of years.

1:47James Reynolds:A few days ago, I came to a Persian restaurant here, Nahrun, where we brought together five Iranians to discuss events of the past week. their hopes for the future and to sample some food and drink from the country. You'll hear from Reza, he's the co-owner of the restaurant. Raha, she's lived in the UK for three years after coming here for her master's degree. Amira is a freelance journalist and content creator. Erfan works in London after leaving Iran five years ago. And 26-year-old Kayleigh, she grew up in the US and Iran and now lives here in the UK. We began our conversation with their reaction to the start of the Israeli and American airstrikes on Iran a week ago.

2:29Rahah:Seeing the Iranian people experience joy makes me experience joy. And seeing them nervous and scared and sad makes me feel the same. So I feel like my emotions since Saturday have very closely echoed those of the Iranian people. My phone hadn't been on charge, so I woke up to put it on charge to get ready for the day ahead and glanced at it. and a friend of mine had messaged me saying, my love, I'm so sorry to hear. And she didn't say what happened, but I knew what it was about. So it's just like, it's like a deep breath and going to see what exactly has happened, how bad is it? And then obviously saw the news and just kind of was in a bit of a spiral of the news and trying to get through to family in Iran, talking to family here.

3:15Rahah:It was very overwhelming.

3:18James Reynolds:Were you able to contact your family inside Iran?

3:20Rahah:Until a certain point, and then it kind of went quiet, which, you know, we're all familiar with. We've been there before.

3:28James Reynolds:Irfan, what's it like to be an Iranian watching events in your own country but having to watch those events from a long, long way away? Perspectives are very different depending on when you left Iran or if you've ever lived in Iran. The Iran that I lived in for 25 years is very different to the Iran right now. I mean, for the love of me, I would not be able to imagine women going out in the streets without wearing hijab. And that was something very unusual at the time I was living in Iran. It has changed a lot. But I think what happened on Saturday, I was very hopeful and I'm still very hopeful that it would bring change.

4:04James Reynolds:And Reza, the co-owner of NARUN, your business is open. I can see three of your staff members carefully arranging the tables. So your business continues. But where is your mind at the moment? Yeah, I mean, just thinking a lot with my family back at home, my friends, we have to keep business going as usual. But, you know, I employ quite a lot of Iranian staff as well who are all connected to Iran. And everyone is having these sort of mixed emotions that everyone's talking about. It's really hard for everyone to stay focused and go about our day as usual. But, you know, I think we can all be understanding of that this is not normal circumstances.

4:45James Reynolds:And we're just trying to support each other as much as possible.

4:48Rahah:One of the things that we can all relate to is a very big sense of survivor's guilt. And that is big when you've just left Iran, I think, because the people who you've spent all your days with a few years ago, now they're there and they're experiencing that uncertainty and that stress. And you're sat here trying to convince your nervous system that you're not the one being attacked, but at the same time going through that emotional roller coaster during the day. So I think that for me was the biggest thing ever since Saturday morning, just thinking about what you can do, how you can help, if there's anything you can do, and trying to share that experience as much as you can with your friends and family in Iran.

5:30Rahah:I think for me it's just I went there every summer and I never really appreciated it when I went. Like it was always my friends went to Spain or Portugal. And I can't believe I'm saying I'm jealous of friends going to Cornwall. No offense. But like, it's amazing that I was going to Iran, but I never I never had that appreciation when I was younger. And I've not been back for 10 years now. So for a long time, it was, oh, I've not been able to be there because of that reason. And now it's like, OK, I don't know when I'll be able to go back because of a whole new reason. Can I also add to that? I think one of the things that I always noticed growing up was, for example, seeing all of my friends being able to spend the summers with their families or have their grandma come over for a weekend, things like that.

6:15Rahah:And I kind of would always ask myself, why can't I just go see my grandparents for a couple of weeks? And I mean, you can say that it's the distance of the place between the U.S. and Iran, but it was far more than that. And I think that was something that always kind of shaped my perceptions of the world as I was growing up. How often did you go? Or were you able? Every couple of years. We were every year. And now it's just, it seems so, like, it's such a long time ago. But, yeah. And, like, I get what you mean. Because, like, kids, like, my friends were being picked up by their grandparents at school.

6:50And that was just a non-reality for us.

6:54Rahah:I keep thinking that even if we do go back right now, we will just not see the same city or the same people. So just seeing all the videos and photos of places that I used to drive by or go to and how they've drastically changed and are still changing during the attacks, maybe that's a concept we will not see face to face again. We just have to accept.

7:20James Reynolds:Especially during Christmas time. I mean, in Iran, we don't celebrate Christmas, but seeing friends, going to families and spend time with them during holiday is just that sense of, oh, why can't I go to my parents and see them or spend time with my family? I mean, we celebrate Nourous as well. New Year. And that's on the 20th of March this year? Yeah, exactly. It's very nice. But we don't have that opportunity to spend time with family members or with our parents. The kind staff here are bringing four or five different dishes here. Reza, would you like to describe what we're being served? Yeah, absolutely.

7:54James Reynolds:So I thought we're having this conversation. We should tuck into a little bit of nice Persian food as well. We have a couple of traditional Persian appetizers. You have some Kashgar Baram Jun, which is a pan-fried aubergine with walnuts and whey sauce. Mastakhiyar, which is Greek-style yogurt with finely diced cucumbers. You've got Mirza Ghassami coming from the north of Iran, which is a smoked aubergine dish with tomatoes, garlic, and with egg. Here you have some Salad Olovia, which is like a chicken potato salad. So these are all very dishes that all Iranians are very familiar with and nice, nice appetizer.

8:35James Reynolds:I hope you can try and enjoy. Of course, I should say, as you were describing that, almost each of our other guests took out their phones to take pictures of this food. It looks so good.

8:46Rahah:I can't do a podcast without having some food around me. I don't even need to name myself. People don't know who said that. I think you didn't do justice to the olives. I think they're a very staple.

8:57James Reynolds:Why don't you tell us about the Zeytun Parvarde?

9:00Rahah:Well, yeah, this is a side dish we have with a lot of our food. It's called Zeytun Parvarde. And you basically marinate olives in a mix of pomegranate, molasses, herbs, walnuts, crushed walnuts. And I would recommend it to anyone who can get their hands on because it's just such a staple side dish.

9:20James Reynolds:We are having a photo session here at the moment, although we are a radio program. But everyone is making sure to get as many photos as possible. And Reza, as you prepare this food and as you serve it and get people to eat, if you close your eyes, are you almost back in Iran? Does it taste the same as it tastes back home or not? You know, I think especially like food plays a huge role for us Iranians. I think all of my earliest memories I remember, you know, we have this big culture of being around a dining table and all eating together. The areas which I'm from, you know, my mother's from Esfahan, my father's from Shiraz.

9:52James Reynolds:And I think both cities with not just a great deal of history and culture and literature, but in terms of food, I think they're just really amazing places. And one of the things that, you know, I always missed growing up here in the UK was just this type of feeling of being around this type of food all the time. I mean, obviously, you go to an Iranian restaurant maybe once a month with your family. But, you know, I think just being able to have this and be a place where Iranians can come together here and try to enjoy it with their friends and their families. It's what we always wanted to do from the beginning.

10:26James Reynolds:And I'm so proud that that's actually what it's turned into.

10:29Rahah:Can I say as well, Iranian food is some of my favorite cuisine in the entire world, if not my favorite, absolute favorite. I love it. But I think the thing that makes it so special for me is having it with all of my friends.

10:43James Reynolds:Kayleigh, Erfan, Amira, Raha and Reza sharing their meal with me in the Naroon restaurant here in central London. More from that conversation in just a moment. I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

11:12James Reynolds:be watching. Washington Wise is an original podcast from Charles Schwab that unpacks the stories making news in Washington right now and how they may affect your finances and portfolio. Listen at schwab.com slash Washington Wise. That's schwab.com slash Washington Wise.

11:36James Reynolds:Let's rejoin our conversation now and the meal with dessert still to come. Many people who've left Iran tend to oppose the regime. It's difficult to gauge how much support the government has, although one Dutch study suggested it's around 20 % of the population. I wanted to hear why our guests decided to leave the country. We'll hear firstly from Raha.

12:01Rahah:Moving abroad to study has become an inevitable part of your progression through life in Iran. I think when we were children, Erfan is nodding as well, when we were children we would each have one or two relatives who live abroad and there would be these like exotic aunt who always brings us gifts and souvenirs and then and i think that one of the first waves started in 2009 after the green movement didn't get anywhere because it started in university like universities played a very big role in what happened back then and a lot of students were banned from entering universities or continuing their studies so what do they do when they're not allowed to continue their studies, they move abroad to study.

12:41Rahah:To the point that even one of the best universities in Tehran for engineering, Sharif University, is known as West Terminal, because it's known that when you finish your studies there, you immediately move to a Western country to continue. So it's kind of like you grow up, you graduate, you move abroad, you get married, you have children, like that's one of the steps. So for a lot of us, the question is just finding the destinations. And also, obviously, when you grow up in Iran and you see that distance between yourself and what you're being taught in school, you're being preached by the thought system that's in the country, then you start to find an alternative for yourself.

13:18Rahah:You start to think, okay, I don't think I would be able to express myself here. I don't think I would be happy here. So where do I go? And I always say I blame it on Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes, the BBC version, but that's why London was my choice. So that's the picture that was sold to me. But no, I always knew I wanted to move to London ever since I was 10.

13:41James Reynolds:Education is one route to get out of Iran and live your life in a free country and kind of not deal with everyday challenges in Iran. For me, especially as a queer Iranian, living in a free country, kind of define how you embrace yourself, your identity, your individuality. So for me, it was a personal choice, obviously. I haven't been back to Iran because, I mean, as soon as I arrived, I arrived in October 2019. And then a month after that, we had bloody November in Iran, which was an uprising. And then Women Life Freedom Movement. So I've been very outspoken politically. That's my reason for not going back.

14:19James Reynolds:But also with the type of life I'm having, I don't think it's possible for me to live under that repression. So when you left Iran, when your flight took off, did you then think, this is the last time I'm going to see my home country for a while? I actually, you know what, it was at the time that Game of Thrones was really trendy at the time. And I was listening to one of Ramin Javadi's soundtracks as the flight was taking off. It was a moment of, this is probably going to be the last time for quite a long time I'm seeing Iran. And I think the flight was for five, six hours on it. the whole time I was crying knowing that probably that's going to be the last time I'm seeing Iran

14:59Rahah:for a long time yeah can I ask what did you think of when you when your flight first landed in London because and have you been to London before because I've never been and so how did you feel

15:10James Reynolds:well it landed in Heathrow airport which is far from city center or I didn't see any any elements of kind of anything London looking but I studied up in the north so I had to take a bus from Heathrow So, and you know what, actually, because Iran is so vast and big, and you kind of think, okay, you know, I don't have to take a train or anything, or I can drive. And I thought, you know, UK is not as big, so I can just take a bus and go to North England. And I was on the bus for 12 hours. I was exhausted. I was like, that was my biggest mistake. And Erfan, as you left Iran, knowing that you wouldn't see it again for the foreseeable future, what has the separation from your family been like?

15:54James Reynolds:It's very difficult because I've lost a few members of our extended family or among relatives and not being able to see them or saying goodbye to them is very painful. But also, you know, when you live with your parents, you don't notice that they are aging. But when you see them after one or two or three years, you actually notice, oh, they are aging. For me, as someone who sees them once a year or once every two years, So how many years I have left to see them? You are not able to make memories with them anymore or share that happiness or sadness with them. You are only seeing them through your screen or your mobile and talk to them, which is a very, very hard experience.