Jordanian director Zain Duraie

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30business needs in one place, saving you time, headaches, and serious money. Stop paying for missing pieces. Go to odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com to learn more. With the new Schwab Teen Investor Account, teens can gain hands-on investing experience and build positive money habits. It's an account co-owned by you and your teen, so you can monitor and engage with the account while your teen learns how to invest and manage money. Learn more at schwab.com. I had 136 scenes that I had to shoot in 22 days. Did I go on plan? Sometimes it did. Many times it didn't. Welcome to In the Studio from the BBC World Service, the programme that investigates the creative process.

1:17The first thing I learned in film school was Murphy's Law. And if things will go wrong, they will go wrong. My name is Stephen Hughes, and this is a voice note sent to me by the Jordanian writer-director Zayn Durayi. She was working on her debut feature film, Sink, a powerful and unsettling drama, but a young mother coping with her son's growing mental health issues.

1:54That's a subject I really wanted to talk about. First of all, it's a very personal story to me. I think it's also a subject that hasn't been really explored in the Arab world. So nobody really ever talked about the subject in the MENA region before. And I kind of wanted to break this stereotype that we're always making similar subjects. And I wanted to do something different. So why do you think it hasn't been a subject for Middle East cinema? I think it's too scary for my part of the world because the West are usually very much keen into our predictable subjects like refugees, war. So people are afraid to kind of get out of the box, I guess.

2:42I was talking to Zane just after SYNC's European premiere at the London Film Festival in October 2025. She told me just how hard it was to get finance for the film. It was tough. Yeah, it was a risk. I mean, we were able to secure money from the region, but, for example, trying to get money from France was kind of a nightmare because they thought the film was not... It's a sentence I keep hearing that it's not Jordanian enough, that basically it did not have the elements that they expected. There's stereotypical elements from my country and that we do not feel this is a Jordan. And I think they just have this different gaze.

3:27And I said to myself, but that's not the world I know. I'm not going to go write about a different class of family just so I can please the fundings and get money. Then you lose your authenticity as a filmmaker. I hope filmmakers do something different. Like, let's break the stereotype in the Arab world. Let's make different stories. Let's show the West that we have different things to say. I mean, this is just me being very hypothetical right now, but I do assume that they may be expected less of a modern family. Maybe they were shocked that the family can't speak English or that we're like educated people.

4:06And I think they were shocked that I made something like that. And I'm not sure it's very keen to their formula. So where did you find the funding then, eventually? Well, my producer raised the money fully from the Middle East.

4:25Jordan does have a growing film industry and has often been used as locations in Hollywood movies, most famously in Lawrence of Arabia. We have Denis Villeneuve, he flew in, he shot Dune 1 and 2. The Martian shot in Jordan. We have Wadi Rum, you know, the biggest desert. So all the Hollywood films come and shoot there. So we have a good working industry in that way. However, that doesn't seem to make it any easier for Jordanian directors to make their movies and tell their stories. In the local scene, it was still very slow. We barely have any films. We have maybe a maximum of a film a year.

5:07Despite the lack of opportunities for Jordanian filmmakers, Zane knew from an early age that she wanted to be a director. I was in high school two years before I graduated and I was doing my British examinations in high school and we had the drama A-level and I knew that I wanted to be in this world. And the theatre was never enough for me. I wanted more. I was very inspired by Titanic, actually. I was very young when I saw it. I wasn't really inspired by the story or any of that. I was thinking about how did they build this ship and how did they do all of this? And that was when I knew, okay, I'm so into this stuff.

5:48And I started reading a lot of books about filmmaking in high school and then I told my parents that I want to do this and I went to Canada for my film school degree. Are there film schools in Jordan that you could have gone to? Not really, no. Not at that time at least. So what was it about Titanic? Was it that they created a world that you could be drawn into? I was, and the performances as well. I said, my gosh, how did this guy do all of this? I'm not a big fan anymore, but like when I was young, it was such a fascinating film of how they built that ship and how they made it sink. And I was thinking about all of this is that how did they turn that ship upside down and how did they make all of this happen?

6:31And that was what I was thinking about all the time when I was watching it. and I was in grade four, like I was really young. And then Gladiator came out and I started watching that. Unfortunately, you grow up with just Hollywood films. It takes you time to explore the other side of the world, which is like independent art house movies. So when did you start watching those? Like after maybe like a couple of years after I graduated. Yeah, I had to do a lot of homework on my own. Right, okay. so there were no what we would call art movies being shown in Jordan at the time and still they don't show much art movies, it's a problem we have so it's all kind of Hollywood yeah you've got to find them on your own yeah but there will be cinemas that will obviously show sync hopefully hopefully because people in Jordan are not big cinephiles, we don't have that sort of cinematic culture People would prefer to go watch a Marvel than a film like mine.

7:38But I think people are just amazed that I made a film about this topic. People are still a bit maybe not understanding who would do something like that. And the film is quite crazy. So I think for them it's like, why would you do something like that? Maybe they think to themselves, you know, why isn't that a film about the poverty in Jordan? or, I don't know, on our killings or, like, the problems we have in the country? And why am I focusing on something that takes a different angle, like a psychological sort of drama? Zane studied at Toronto Film School, but film education is still continuing.

8:22I'm always watching films. I think it's our job as filmmakers to watch as many films as possible. I don't know if you know this Argentinian filmmaker called Lucrecia Martel I just ran into her right now in my hotel and I told her The Headless Woman was one of my favourite films when I was writing I had to watch so many films when I was writing it's impossible not to do that watching films is part of research and that's what people don't understand is that you have to watch so many films to inspire you and to see how these filmmakers dealt with their subjects. And it's very important. And I think people are, they don't take that seriously.

9:08Filmmakers, not everybody, of course, but like I feel like some people from my region do not watch enough films and do not do their homework enough. They just think, oh, I wrote the script, it's done. Have you done your homework? Have you watched every film that has tackled the subject before you did? But it's very important to do that because otherwise, I don't know, it's strange, you know.

9:38It wasn't enough for Zane to watch the films of her favourite directors though. She also sought out their advice. I was in multiple film workshops developing the film and they would connect me with mentors who would give me their feedback on the script. so that's really important especially on the first film because it's important to also get some of the experience of these people I mean even the biggest filmmakers they share their scripts they send it to their producers the producers say hey listen how about I share it with our colleague let's get his feedback it's part of the process so what sort of advice were you given?

10:19don't fall into melodrama don't go into too many stereotypes we've seen so many films about mental illness how is yours gonna stand out and i had to keep thinking and thinking you know where am i gonna go with this and it took a while it took a while writing takes time was there any kind of contradictory advice you know do some people say one thing and then somebody says something something else and you yeah you didn't know who exactly to yeah yeah that's the challenge is that at the end of all of this. There's only one person who knows and that's you. And you have to follow your gut feeling. It's a complicated process, to be honest.

10:57And I think now when I do my next film, I'll be more cautious and just work with co-producing partners who can give their input on the script. So what advice would Zane give to first-time filmmakers? write about something you know about a pain you have don't be afraid to be different and watch a lot of films watch every film about the subject you want to talk about because many filmmakers have done this before you how are you going to stand out it's so competitive out there there's a million, millions, million, million of films that apply to all those big festivals so you need to have something different and find that in you and take your time.

11:43Don't rush. Usually it's a mess when you're writing your first film because you're exploring so many different opinions, getting so much feedback, people saying, oh, the script is horrible. The confidence can really go low, but you keep going and you should be open to people criticizing you as well. That's part of our job.

12:09and I think it was very challenging for me because the film kept falling into these places of melodrama and that was the biggest challenge for me is that how am I going to make this film so subtle and quiet

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14:00Download the Wise app today. T's and C's apply. You're listening to In the Studio from the BBC World Service with me, Stephen Hughes, and Zane Duray, the writer-director of Sync, an emotional family drama set in Amman, the capital of Jordan. After the writing process, you have to turn those words into images. And many directors do that by making a storyboard, the shots and scenes they envisage. We kind of did storyboard, but not in the typical drawing method. Me and my director of photography, who's quite astonishing, we were working together on basically references. so we had this huge file and I would drop in photos from films that I like like we need to talk about Kevin or mommy by Xavier Dolan like we spoke about the films that tackle mental health he knew exactly what I what I wanted and when I would give him an image we would really discuss that image thoroughly and we would go through every detail and things just got better and better when we were shooting it was it was quite amazing to see that the image is is better than what was read it on paper.

15:15And that for me is the biggest accomplishment in this film. Because many people came to me and said the film is better than the script. And that for me is a huge compliment.

15:27The story about a young mother struggling with her son's unpredictable behaviour might make you think that Sink is an issue film about mental health. But it really isn't. No, it's not. I mean, it's important to tackle important issues through cinema. And I think there are two kinds of cinemas for me like there's the cinema that has political strong message and statement and there's the kind of film where it just gives you full-on human story with emotions and I think I'm more keen to that to focus on the intricate human relationships and what goes on between people because I do think cinema is about humans it's about human relationships and it's about our flawed nature and that's what I wanted to do to leave people with a tender feeling and not to leave with a heaviness, but rather a sort of tender emotion that people really care about these characters when they're watching.

16:23Because if you don't care about the protagonist of the film, then I don't think the film works. So that was my intention. And it takes us in directions, I think, that nobody really could imagine at the start of the film. Absolutely. I think I wanted to make this unpredictable journey and how the son is dragging the mother into this madness and how she sinks with him. This is why the film starts like a slow burn and then it picks up like a crescendo and it starts going super fast. When you're living with someone that's completely manic, you don't know what's going to happen. And that volatility was something that Zayn wanted to capture.

17:07I think any predictable film loses the audience. and I didn't want to lose my audience. I wanted to keep people on the edge of their seats and just think to themselves, when is this going to explode? I think it's a trick that you do in writing as well, like to not please the audience too much, not spoon feed too much, keep people on their edge and just let them watch and let them observe because I think human nature is unpredictable as well. You don't know what people will do.

17:37The unpredictability of the film is also due to the performance of Mohamed Nizar, who was in his 20s when the film was made, but convincingly played, a teenager. His chaotic energy infuses a film you never know exactly which direction it's going to take. He's a casting coup, and I wanted to know how Zane discovered him. My producer suggested him to me, and we had a coffee, and he had the look that I was looking for because, you know, as directors, we're always looking for a certain look. We're looking for certain eyes. We're looking for certain hair. So this is why I think actors should not take things personally when they're not casted because sometimes we just have a specific look in mind and he had that.

18:21And then he just inspired me with such amazing talent that he did not need an audition. We started preparing for three years for his role. He didn't read the script until eight months before the shoot. So we were just working on the character. And he did his homework, really. He read every book out there. He did all the research. He met with psychiatrists. He really, really was able to kind of embody Basel in ways where I did not imagine this was going to be such a good role for him. Like, he was really incredible. There are some quite extreme scenes. How did you work together in those scenes?

19:00It was very intense, to be honest. I think because I was close to them and we were rehearsing a lot, they really trusted me. And I think they felt safe with me to express things. We sometimes had to close down the set and just have the first assistant director, myself and the DOP, and that set and everybody else was just away. Sometimes actors are really fragile and when you put them in these extremely difficult scenes, you need to be very kind and understanding with them. It felt real and they were just really in it. And does that mean also you were conscious of how many takes you asked for? Yeah, I would ask them if they were okay with doing another take and they were really okay with it.

19:46Sometimes they would tell me, can we do another one? And I would let them. Did you feel worried about pushing them too far or did you sort of stand back and let them do their thing? Yeah, I stood back. No, I don't like to push. If they were uncomfortable, I would never push. Actors are humans at the end of the day, and they need to be 100 % convinced with what they're doing. You've got to be ethical with the people you're working with, especially actors. You have to respect what they want and what they feel. So I was always doing that. I was always asking, guys, how are you feeling? Is there something that I can do for you?

20:21Are you okay? You have to take care of them. You have to talk to them. You have to make sure if they need a break or not.

20:32Now, it's not just the son whose behaviour is unpredictable. The mother's reaction to his mental health crisis is just as idiosyncratic. As played by Clara Curley, she's clearly in denial about what is happening to him. And I think this is what I wanted to focus on, is to create this mother that was different than what the Arab world expects. Because another mother would have dealt with things differently. And that was the challenge with my actress, is that she was always worried about how she's doing this super crazy mother who's like sinking with her son's illness and not doing the right thing all the time.

21:09And I told her, you need to separate yourself from her. She's not you and you're not her. But you need to now go into this character and just let go of what the right or the wrong thing is. Because at the end, just focus on the core emotion of this character, which is love. Just stay there. Stay there. Even if you're watching a surgery with him, even if you're, you know, sinking under the water with him, stay with the emotion and stop thinking so logically. And that was the most challenging part when we were rehearsing and prepping with her because actors sometimes need logic. And that was the biggest challenge for me is how am I going And I let Clara forget the logic and get into the emotion.

21:55And that was what we worked on. Yeah, yeah, it was a very interesting experience with the cast because you see them transform. And how long was the shoot? Actually, you'd be surprised, four weeks, which is nothing for a future. So 22 days because we had, our budget was very limited. Like we couldn't afford shooting an extra day. It was tough. It was tough. That's a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure. We were all under so much pressure, especially me. But I loved it so much that things felt easy. And I had a great team of producers who were protecting me all the time. But I felt how they were almost falling apart during the shoot because of the lack of money and support we had.

22:43It was really difficult.

22:50and they were really like so passionate about the film everybody just made this film with so much love like no one got a big paycheck you know we were all working for like for just the believing in the story and I think when you give so much love into the film the universe gives you something back and it really did like it's really beautiful when you work with love and good intention and nobody really has any bad ego. We were all on the same page. And after all that, the edit loomed into view. Am I daunted by the prospect of the edit? I'm anxious, of course, to get into the editing room and watch everything, especially, you know, it's been a month since we finished shooting, so I've kind of taken some quite good distance from the film.

23:38So now going back, watching the footage, Yeah, I mean, I'm afraid, because sometimes when you're shooting, you're just like really infatuated by the shot and by the performances and by everything. And then you go back into the editing room and that's when the problems start to pop. She shared and solved those problems with her editor, Abdullah Sader. My editor is fascinating. He helped shape this film with me. and we crafted it together in the editing room for six weeks, which is quite fast for a feature. He knew exactly what I wanted. The only disagreement I had was it would sometimes become very fragile in the editing room and vulnerable.

24:21I would cry sometimes and I would tell him, I'm not sure about the film anymore. And he was my compass in a way and he was telling me, you've got to believe in what we're doing. And he told me this beautiful sentence that I will never forget. don't forget that you are the expert. You are the expert. You are this film. You are the creator. You are the writer. You are the director. And the story comes from a deep place. You know the story best. And I was always doubting stuff, asking him stuff. So I think the relationship between the director and the editor is very important because that's when you're actually making the film.

25:04It was beautiful, really.