Life in a volcano danger zone

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1:32Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC Conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. This time, we hear from people who live and work on active volcanoes. On the 8th of May, 20 hikers set off to climb Mount Dukunu on the Indonesian island of Halmahera. Authorities had warned against walking within four kilometres of the volcano's rim, which had already erupted 200 times since March. When the volcano erupted again that day, it left three dead and several others injured. It's the latest incident in recent years in which tourists have been killed visiting an active volcano.

2:18In our conversations, we wanted to explore the attraction of volcanoes. We wanted to hear about the extreme danger that they can pose to visitors and also to those living nearby. Later, we'll hear from a man known as the Lava Chaser in Hawaii and his own brush with death. Firstly, though, my colleague Rahul Tandon brought together Alex, who lives near two active Indonesian volcanoes, including Mount Dukuno. Gary, his home is on the slopes of the Fuego volcano in Guatemala. And Chris is a photographer and explorer who grew up near volcanoes in Ecuador. People living near volcanoes often develop a completely different relationship with dangers.

3:00When eruptions happen constantly, fear change their shape. It's like the people have developed a love relationship with these volcanoes. Yeah, it's a really beautiful connection. what the outside world, what is in the Western culture of people who are living safe in apartments, they can understand. But when they go close to nature, they start feeling it. This is Gary. I certainly agree with what you're saying. The idea of living with the danger until we actually went through it once was really not there. And after having lived through an eruption, the danger seems to be had disappeared for us we enjoy living here very much and the nature around us gives us so much back to be able to have all of this nature around us all the wild parrots and different birds come around our house and animals every day it feels very much like we're living inside of a national geographic magazine well that sounds like a wonderful place to live.

4:08But can I take you back to that day when the eruption happened? We like to paint pictures in the minds of our listeners, Gary. Paint a picture of what you saw that day, what you experienced that day. It was on a Sunday morning. I got up at eight o 'clock and I walked out of the house and saw that Fuego was giving its morning little rumble, which happens almost every day. And I thought nothing of it. And I went back in the house and watched Sunday morning television. And 11 o 'clock, I got a call from administration in the development saying that we had to evacuate. And I asked why, because I heard nothing.

4:47There was no noise to the eruption. And I walked into the living room, and then I could see these enormous black clouds of ash rolling over the top of our house. And so I yelled out the door to my husband, who was working in the garden. He hadn't noticed anything. and we gathered our computers and our passports and drove out eventually about 1 30 that afternoon it came down the four kilometers from our house from the top down through the village below and killed around 3 000 people yeah that's horrible when you say it comes down what what is it that's coming down there was it ash was it lava fuego doesn't have lava they it has what they call lahar, which is like gravel and very, very high temperature gases.

5:39It comes down like a river, but it's gray. And it came down. We live in a resort area, and it went through the golf course and clubhouse, and then eventually got to the village below us, and that's where the people were dying. They were warned to leave, but they had lived with this Their whole life, they thought it would never happen. They didn't want to leave. It resulted in their death. It sounds like what Gary said, that it was a pyroclastic. The pyroclastic is the most, the very dangerous one. It's a great killer. Alex, you're near Mount Dakota, and we know that there's been an eruption there recently.

6:24Describe what that was like for you, because you were pretty close by, weren't you, to the rim when it happened? Doekono and Mount Ibu is not really far, only about 70 kilometers at that distance. And it's two different volcanoes. Doekono has a deep crater, it's about 50 meters depth. And the material, mostly 80 % ash. And the other are rock and lava liquid. And the strong stromboli or strong bomb, all the material just flies out, which is very dangerous. But we are used to it because we grow up here. We listen every time. So we are used to it. And Mount Ibu have a lava dome on top. Lava dome is very dangerous because one day can be collapsed.

7:15The lava dome keeps growing every second. Every second. And from my house is only about six kilometers. And what we are worried about is when it's collapsed. Perhaps, according to the volcanologist, one day it's collapsed. It is a kind of stratovolcano. It's also, I sometimes hike up and I saw from a close distance, about 100 meters, at the rim and then watch the lava dome. Do you not get scared then, a little bit? Of course, I get nervous, of course. Of course, but you know, my clients sometimes are crazy clients. They just want to, they say that they are happy if they die on the volcano. So what I have to do is to give information as much as possible.

8:03What is the real things about what's happening at the moment and how is the activity and what is the level. And but sometimes my clients still want to approach to the rim. I guess we live with the danger. I don't really think about it. None of our neighbors around really feel that we're in that much danger. But the benefits of living here is really, really amazing. You know, we kind of joke with our friends that we say we are always going to wear our best jewelry and our best outfits so that if they find us someday, we'll be in a fabulous museum. But I think it's worth it. We really love living here.

8:49I love the answer words Gary was giving. To be honest, it is true. I've been seeing this story when I was living for one year in Stromboli. People live more longer, live more healthy, live more, I don't know, it is an attraction, what you have with these dangers, what you have with this fire. Is it an attraction or is it, you know, some people might say it's being a bit naive, isn't it? no it's a real attraction it's a real it's a real connection because you connect with earth you connect with your life of course we have people you know i know that look i'm a person who travel the world but when i come to these places i can really ground it and i understand what gary and alex are saying it's an attraction you know when i was in stromboli people are saying For example, when you are climbing the mountains, your brain is saying, come on, let's go, let's get out of here.

9:48But your soul, your feelings, your emotions and say, please, let me stay here because I really love this. I really am connected. And if you see people around the world right now, they are looking that place to distress themselves. And actually, like in Pompeii, they knew it. earth can distress yourself really if you if you are walking there you know just you go for one week you will come renew it to your office well maybe that's what i need to do because i certainly need to be renewed in my office i want to give you the final word on this you've talked so much about where you live i want you to paint a picture of it tell me what you can see outside your window And be honest with me as well.

10:36Some of your friends must say you're a little bit crazy, Gary. Well, we look at it more as a privilege to be so close to such a spectacular piece of nature. You know, we're living here in a culture that Guatemalan has 27 volcanoes, three of which are active. And we live between two of the active volcanoes. So it's always a show. tourism is a big thing and there's a lot of people come here to climb the inactive volcano next to fuego and they hike up there and they spend sunset and sunrise watching fuego come up and go to sleep in the in the evening it's a way of life it really is for this culture the mayans have been here for 2 ,000 years, and it's very much in keeping with their religion and the beauty of it.

11:36And what do you see outside your window? What can you see? Describe it. Well, I'm standing in my living room right now and looking straight south, and I can see the edge of the Pacific Ocean, which is 60 miles away, and on a very clear day, I can see El Salvador. If I look in the opposite direction, I can see the top of Fuego volcano, which is a beautiful morning here. I'm sure it will fart several times during the day. And we just it's part of our life. We don't really think about the danger. We just enjoy the beauty that surround us. Gary, Chris and Alex. And Gary spoke about the major eruption he experienced in 2018 that buried the entire town of San Miguel Los Lotes under ash and rock.

12:23The official death toll from that disaster was 218. But locals say as many as 3 ,500 people disappeared that day. I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to The Documentary from the BBC World Service.

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14:19Host Mike Townsend, Charles Schwab's Managing Director for Legislative and Regulatory Affairs, takes a non-partisan look at the stories that matter most to investors, including policy initiatives for retirement savings, taxes and trade, inflation concerns, the Federal Reserve, and how regulatory developments can affect companies, sectors, and even the entire market. Mike and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes could affect what you do with your portfolio. Download the latest episode and follow at schwab.com slash Washington Wise or wherever you listen.

15:11with a team of trusted journalists. They explain the why behind decisions like investing, home buying and choosing credit cards with clear research-backed insights. No jargon, no misinformation. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money podcast on your favourite podcast app. A staggering 500 million people live in the shadow of active volcanoes, and those volcanoes can provide considerable economic benefits. Volcanic soils are among the most fertile in the world. Volcanic landscapes often provide rich mineral resources. And in many parts of the world, volcano tourism is also a major source of income.

15:57Guides will take visitors to the summit. Hotels give them somewhere to stay. And on one active volcano in the Spanish island of Lanzarote, this is true, they've even built a restaurant. You can have your meal cooked with the heat from the lava. For our second conversation, then, we've brought together two people who earn their living from volcanoes. Marco Tomasello is a volcano guide on Mount Etna in Sicily. And Damien Barrios in Hawaii specializes in volcano photography to such an extent that he has become known as the lava chaser. You know, the lava chaser theme kind of came up during the 2018 eruption that we had here in Leilani Estates on the Big Island.

16:40It was the first time in our lifetime that we had a fissure eruption. You know, all the other eruptions were in a known location. You could go to the same place every day and it would be there. But during that eruption, I think there were a total of 24 different fissures. and they were erupting all over the place at different times in the day over the course of three months. I started feeling like I was having to chase the lava because we never knew where it was going to come out and where the next eruption would be. I started using the term lava chaser. I had some of my work shared on a few networks and an interview with Time magazine that called me the lava chaser and then it kind of just stuck from there.

17:25Yeah. Did the lava ever catch up to you? You know, it did catch up to me a couple of times. I did have a pretty near death experience where a huge molten chunk of lava landed right where I was standing with my tripod. And I had moved about 20 seconds prior to that. And so I was reminded of the dangers and the risks and how it's a very real experience and obviously um lots of adrenaline and excitement but it also demands a lot of respect and taking precautions to make sure that uh it wasn't a very fun position to be in but um a little bit of adrenaline goes a long way to kind of remind us of our of our vitality and how everything can change in an instant right let's bring in marco a volcano guide on on sicily with Mount Etna.

18:16What have been your experiences with Mount Etna? We can say Etna is a gentle volcano, even if, I mean, I always say volcanoes, they are not good or bad, but they are just doing their job. And also that's nature. They are not like human. I mean, the risk for the people coming up to do the hike to the summit, I can say is quite low compared to other volcanoes I've been in the world. But, I mean, it's an active volcano. So when I say to all my clients, the risk of zero doesn't really exist when we go in an active volcano. But if we look at how many accidents we had in the past, because of the activity of Etna, there are just few, even because Etna is one of the most studied volcanoes in the world.

19:08To people you meet think you're a bit crazy. I think so. Especially people that maybe haven't been to the volcano a lot. They only see what they interpret from a lot of the news agencies. And, you know, a lot of times I feel like the news always tries to make it sound more scary. There's a certain comfort level. It's like anything, right? You know, if you go to Africa to go see the lions and it's the first time you're seeing a lion, you're probably going to be very scared. But then once you understand the animal and the beast, and maybe you get a little more comfortable. And I feel it's the same way with the volcano.

19:47And, you know, we confront a lot of our own fears. And then as time goes on, we kind of become comfortable with that. Like Marco's saying, you know, Mount Etna being a gentle volcano, in most cases, I think it's the same here in Hawaii, with the exception of the 2018 eruption, because a lot of homes were lost. So we're lucky to be able to experience that in a gentle way. Of course, volcanoes, especially, you know, more explosive volcanoes can be very dangerous. But I think generally speaking, people think that we're crazy. And I think that's a normal feeling to have. Yes, I think for some of the clients, yes, because probably mostly because I go up and down in the volcano pretty much every day.

20:34when I say that, for them it's something crazy, because for most of the people that climb the summit, it's something they do one time in a lifetime. And imagine you do up and down, on the top there are acid gas, or there is a little bit of risk of eruption. For, I will say, normal people, it's something really crazy, which, I mean, as Damien said, if you used to do that, it became something quite normal. Of course, when we bring the people close to a lava flow, when there is a lava flow, because in Etna it's not always like that, that is a much stronger moment. And of course, it's a little bit more scary for them.

21:17And yeah, it seems like a crazy life. We're speaking to you in the aftermath of the fact that three hikers were killed after a volcanic eruption on the Indonesian island of Halmahera. Damien when you see events like that what do you as as a photographer and as someone who does this for a living learn about the danger of volcanoes you know I think it's a reminder that obviously they they are very dangerous and it takes a certain level of knowledge and respect to maybe be aware of those dangers and and hopefully not be in the wrong place at the wrong time You know, when I hear about the deaths of those people, it's obviously an unfortunate thing.

22:04I feel like that sometimes instills more fear in people, even though, you know, statistically, it's a pretty rare thing. I lost a friend here in early 2018 who died on the lava field, you know, miles from the actual volcano, but just in an area where there was fresh lava. And he had some whiteout conditions where it rained so much that all the water landing on the fresh lava created a lot of steam and volcanic gases. And that's ultimately what led to his death. And that is in a very mellow, easy place, seven miles from the actual crater itself. So it is a very real thing. And it's definitely potential.

22:50And I think that it's something that demands respect. It's a reminder of how much danger there can really be out there. But having said that, like Marco mentioned, you kind of get comfortable with it. If it's something you do regularly, I mean, statistically, some people die, you know just on their way to work in a car and so it really puts it into perspective and for some of us I guess we could say that it's a risk that we're willing to take and unfortunately you know from time to time some people do pass away and you know not to sign the disrespectful on the matter but I mean it's part of this journey on life right.

23:31I think I risked my life at least three times in Etna, in Stromboli. But in more than 25 years, I think I never had any risk with the clients during my job. The most important thing is just to have, as Damien said, a sort of respect. So volcanoes like Etna, they are not really dangerous. The only thing is to be in a certain distance to the heavens, to the explosion in particular, because lava flow, for example, in Etna, I can say not dangerous at all. The only danger is when there is snow. In wintertime can be a little bit more danger. But the danger can be during an eruption. Stay to a certain distance that you can enjoy the show without taking too much risk.

24:23Then me, I think, as Damien said, it's important to have respect, to have knowledge about what we're going to do. But also, climb the active volcano, it's something we need to accept a certain type of risk. So me, I always say, as I say before, the risk zero doesn't exist, but that is in the normal life. Me, for joking to the clients, I say in the beginning of the track, I say, okay, you take more risk to arrive to the meeting point by car than climb up the summit of Etna, because in Sicily we drive a little bit crazy, probably in South American style. So there is much more risk in the reality.

25:06I beat on Sicilian roads, that's right. Or a motorbike than climb up the volcano. But of course, in the media, an eruption in something really impressive, really, really dangerous because it was always like that in the history, in the movie. The volcano is something terrible, not something destroyed. But the reality is a little bit different. You know, I think as humans, you know, life is boring on the couch, right? And that's why people take risk every day. Like Marco mentioned, you know, the most dangerous part of my day is getting in my car and driving somewhere. And, you know, people go to go see the lions in Africa or people go and put themselves in a cage to see sharks or they go, you know, surfing huge waves on shallow reefs or, you know, going up mountains to go snowboarding or skiing.

25:58And they run the risk of maybe getting taken over by an avalanche. And I feel that that draw to that really makes you feel alive. and I think as humans on this planet we're really impressed by the raw power of nature and I think that we're drawn to that I think that innately that's something that calls everybody because it reminds us of our humanity and our fragility and you know to anybody that's seen the lava it really has a moment where it really captivates you and it just makes you feel so small in comparison to these powers on our planet and on this earth. And I feel that it's a really humbling experience that, you know, in that moment, it really puts life into perspective, it makes you realize how fragile we are, but also gives you some humility.

26:52And I think as humans, we're just drawn to that power, and that energy and that creation. Even people who are scared of lava, you take them to a volcanic eruption, they're, they're going to be a hundred percent fixed on it and they're going to want to get closer. Right. And I feel that that's just something that is in within all of us. And I think it's good a little bit in life to maybe do something that scares you and be humbled and lose our ego for a moment and realize how small we are and how big and strong these forces are. Damien in Hawaii and Marco in Sicily, helping us to learn to love volcanoes with a degree of humility and respect.

27:42Our thanks so much to them and to all of our guests this week. I'm James Reynolds. You've been listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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