Life in Venezuela

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0:40Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC OS Conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. This time, we hear from Venezuelans about life in the country and from those who've been forced to leave. Nicolas Maduro had his chance until he didn't. He effed around and he found out. This was one of the most stunning, effective and powerful displays of American military might and competence in American history. That's from a White House video which was published after the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife Celia Flores were seized by US troops from their compound in the capital, Caracas.

1:24They were taken in handcuffs to New York to face drug trafficking and weapons charges. The couple denies the charges. President Trump said that his administration would begin to run Venezuela. But what that means in practice is far from certain. For now, at least, Maduro's vice president, Delcio Rodriguez, has taken power. We wanted then to get a sense of what life is like for Venezuelans. We start inside the country. Our four guests live in Caracas. We've changed their names to protect their identities. You'll hear about the risks they face in speaking to the BBC. Anna works for a US company.

2:02Vanessa is a lawyer. William is a law student. And Andreas is an engineer. Our conversation begins with an insight into the difficulties people face every day. I asked Andreas, for example, what happens when he turns on his kitchen tap? Four days out of seven days a week, no water comes out. That's normal life here. It's been like that for about 20 years. We bathe using a small recipient, you know, like a pot or like a plastic container. And we use water that we collect from buckets and larger containers. And that's what we have to get used to. I can say that a few years ago, it was really, really hard to access to basic needs, even food.

2:53But nowadays, you can find almost anything you'd like to have. Just the prices are super, super high. Sometimes the amount you get paid at work, it's not enough to buy the things you need. I remember back in 2016 that there was this scarcity of toilet paper. Many of the guys here will remember that. And there were these guys called bachakeros, which were like a black market selling guys. The toilet paper in the normal supermarket would cost, I don't know, 15 bolivares. The bachakeros would sell it for like 60 bolivares. And you had to buy it from them because you wouldn't find them in the normal supermarket groceries.

3:37is yeah it was a tough time but for now i think like vanessa said prices are really high and you need to try to convert your bolivares to dollars if you get the chance or spend them as soon as you can anna i'd like to ask you about whether or not you feel safe when you walk on the streets or when you go to or from work or to see friends i remember there was a very difficult time where you couldn't walking the streets when I was afraid of using the subway maybe or the public transport. The way that delinquency, you know, robbers, they were very bad during a time in Venezuela. Right now, I felt safe to December, right?

4:18I felt safe. I could go out. I was going out at night. I didn't pay much attention to it. But right now, yeah, there's not a sense of safety. I believe that Yesterday I spoke about the colectivos. Colectivos are armed civilians by the government. They live in popular sectors and they basically control the way that we live. They can stop you in the street anywhere. And right now, for example, they're the ones controlling the city. They're the ones telling you like, yeah, give me your phone. And they're definitely way more dangerous than the police, even though the police are also patrolling the streets.

4:59So for me, that's a sense of, yeah, no safety. They've always been there. They've always sort of like been a threat in the back of my mind. I never had any issues with them, but I've heard stories, you know? So it's always there. It's a threat. You're walking on the street and they ask you for your phone, not to take it from you, but to check what messages have you been sending, what status you publish on your WhatsApp or your social media. And if you click on a like to anything that Maria, Corina, Mechado may say on social media, they might just take you. They might detain you, even though they don't have a legal authority, but they just take you and they will take you to the real police with authority.

5:44You would be accused of prison to the motherland and that kind of thing. Every time I go out to the streets, for example, I erase my chats, I check my phone for any pictures that might be suspicious, I delete some of my apps of social media on my phones, like X, Instagram, and so on. It's really important for people outside of Venezuela to understand that we Venezuelans don't have a freedom of speech. I read a lot on social media. Why aren't Venezuela celebrating that Maduro is detained by the United States? It's because we can't. We can't. We are very happy, but we can't. Because we are so scared.

6:25And even though he's not longer in the country and he's not longer the president, the regime is the same. I mean, the people who are running the country right now are his friends. And nothing has changed since Saturday. the only thing that has changed of course is that he's no longer here but it's the same country we live in we have the same problems we had like a week ago so it's the same situation but i can tell you that we are very very happy for what has happened we've seen over recent years just how many venezuelans have left the country to find jobs either in different parts of latin america or even further abroad?

7:04And you, of course, all are English speakers who have the possibility to work in different countries if you tried. What, though, keeps you in Venezuela? Andreas? In my case, it's a lack of money to afford the super high cost of a passport and the impossibility to get a visa anywhere. It's just whatever dollar I make, I have to use it on foot, first for my son, then for myself. Cost of normal living life here is just so high, so difficult. Employers pay so little. I don't think that food here is that expensive. It's not really expensive. It's just that we just don't make enough money to afford even basic food.

7:49There's no power of saving. I mean, any means to save money, I don't have that means right now. 2025 has been the worst financial year of my life. Anything that I may have had for savings, I just used it for basic living. In my case, it's a situation with money. Like he said, you need a visa. I have a passport, but where could I go? The places where I could go are very limited. And even places that I could go, the prices to live in there, it would be too much. Like you said, no saving possibility and the uncertainty that will I live better if I immigrate? I have many family members. My sister, for example, lives in Dominican Republic.

8:38I can go visit her because you'd have to pay triple the price in order to get to the Dominican Republic because there's no direct flights. The prices have tripled in a way that has left us, some of us feel like you're sort of like in prison here. There's so many things that prevent us from leaving. I'd love to ask each of you, what is the thing you like most or love most about Venezuela? Andres? The people, you know, and my peers will agree with that. I bet they're smiling right now, the people. You can talk to a stranger out on the street, And in one minute, both will be laughing. Both will be exchanging names, phone numbers.

9:24And a guy-guy conversation, they will become buddies. A girl-girl conversation will be the same. They will become best friends. A guy-girl conversation, you know, in a couple of years, they might even get married. You know, we're very social. We're very given, you know, people. We're people-people. I don't know if that makes sense. You know, we're prone to talking to people. We're not, you know, hey, hello, what time is it? and you walk away and you don't even answer. We're not like that. We would go, hey, it's 10, 15, you know. It's coffee time. Oh, yeah, I like coffee. You like it with milk or black?

9:59I like it black. I like it black too. Hey, you want to go get a coffee together? Something like that. The people mainly and also the land. The beaches here are pristine, are beautiful, are best in the world. Also, we have, there's like, area. We have plains. We have the Andes. We have high mountains with snow. We have the oldest rock formations in the planet. We have Angel Falls, Amazonia jungle. We have it all. We have it all, you know? Yes, I would like to say that people here in Venezuela is amazing. Food as well is amazing too. The weather, it's just the best weather in the world. I also love the coastline.

10:51I love going to La Guaira, which is really near to Caracas. I know it's not the best beaches in the country, but I love going there. That place, it has just an amazing energy. And also one of the things I love the most about my country is baseball in winter. I always go to the stadium to watch the games. I am a fan of los tiburones de la guaira which stands for the sharks of la guaira which is the city i just mentioned before and i enjoy that a lot of so there's a lot of things here in venezuela that we certainly take for granted and we know we wouldn't have that if we got out of the country so yes i love my country and i am very hopeful that things will change and that i will be part of that change and yes i'm gonna say the people as well i think we are very fun people i was abroad on summer because i was doing a french course and i was with a someone from wales and he said i never thought benswana would be this fun like you guys you talk you go out and you make everything fun of it you know you try to see the fun in everything you know you you try to see the less bad of it.

12:09I personally like from Venezuela. In fact, it's one of my top places I've visited in the world. Morrocoy is a beach. It's like a three-hour drive from Caracas. And well, in fact, when everything happened on Saturday, I was there in Morrocoy. I was celebrating the New Year's. That's my happy place. It's wonderful. I don't think that you would find people as resilient and as you will find in Venezuela, we try to make the most fun out of anything. Just these few days while trying to get food, because of course you're stoking up just in case anything else happens, you will see people talking in line.

12:47And yeah, we're all terrified of maybe speaking out too loud about what's happening. But you would just find yourself having a normal conversation with different strangers. And you will, you know, we would be laughing, we will be making jokes, the nightlife here, even though, you know, we might be afraid. It's amazing. You would make friends out of strangers in minutes. And I just don't think that that's possible. Maybe anywhere else we tend to trust, I think, too easily. But it's just because it's in our nature. We want to make friends. We're very social. I don't know how we can endure so much and still look at life and and see it as bright as it is, I wouldn't change it for the world.

13:30You know, even the people that have been going through the toughest things, they still have a smile to give you and a nice conversation. And people, even in the interior of the country, they will welcome you and they will want to receive you. And it's like, let's share this together. And I don't know if that's something that maybe I would find in another country. It would be difficult. I'd miss it so much. Anna, Vanessa, William and Andreas in Caracas. Four people, as you heard there, who clearly love their country. I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to The Documentary from the BBC World Service.

14:24Join me, Merrin's Upset Web, every week for my show Merrin Talks Money from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists and experts about how markets really work. And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions and how to make those markets work for you. Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.

14:47Donald Trump also has plans for Venezuela's crude oil reserves, which are the largest in the world. Despite this relatively untapped wealth, half the population lives in poverty and there have been shortages of food, fuel, water and medical supplies. In the first conversation, our guests spoke about a lack of money and high travel prices as reasons preventing them from leaving. But millions of Venezuelans have made the decision to flee the country. We brought together four Venezuelans who now live abroad. Barbara is in the US state of Texas. Her family left Venezuela when she was 10. Alejandro, now a DJ living in London, left the country 10 years ago.

15:29He's chosen not to use his real name. Isaac is a computer programmer now in Brazil who used to work for the Maduro government. And Maria is a political scientist living in the US. She began our conversation by telling my colleague Rahul Tandon why she had decided to leave. I taught political science in Venezuela. I was associate professor at Universidad de Carabó for almost 20 years. And we have elections. You elect your presidents, college, university presidents, and so on. So we had like normal, regular campaigns. And I remember one campaign, we were showered with gas. And we were held at gunpoint by people from Chavismo, students.

16:14students who have an ID, a student ID, who are part of our parliamentary body at the college. And those are the people exercising violence against us. So there was a last episode that was really, I don't know, maybe the final straw for my family. My brother was living here. I had a conference here and he basically said, you know what, you shouldn't go back. And that was almost 11 years ago? I was military in Venezuela. I served in the Ministry of Defense. I was working along the actual Ministry of Defense, Padrino. I was working in his office at the time. And during the 2014, happening something called La Salida.

16:59And during that time, I witnessed what was happening. I'm also a Jewish person. So I say, I don't want to be part of this. I told them, I don't want to be part of this. Maybe you can transfer me to another unit. And I had my permission to go to my house and stay on holidays with my family. And I received a call. I put that call on voice. So my father and my family was hearing and they were asking me, oh, you're a trader. You're not part of us. You don't think like us. So you're a trader. So I think, no, I will go back and I will talk to you and say the thing. So they say, no, no, we will look for you.

17:41So my father takes some money, I think it was like$400 or something like that. And he put me on the car and put me on the border and say, yeah, stay the other side. I lived in Venezuela in 2016. And well, for me, there were many reasons. Like I've been robbed more than 10 times. There is nothing that you can do against that. than being kidnapped by police once. I was with a friend in my car. They stopped me in the street. They started to check my documentation. Everything was all right. But they just decided to try to get money from me and from my family, made me ride my car to a place where nobody could see us.

18:27They started to call my family, and they asked them for money, otherwise they were going to put drugs on me and send me to jail because of yes. Yeah, it sounds horrific. It's very difficult for us to verify anything. Can I ask you, when you made that decision to leave, that moment when you left Venezuela, you'd obviously been through a lot that you described there. What did you feel then? Were you sad? Were you relieved? Did you think you were going to go back? Well, I believe that most of Venezuelans leave the country and wishing to go back because most of us believe that we are from the best country in the world.

19:04from the most beautiful country in the world. I was so sad for leaving Venezuela, always hoping to go back. My situation is a bit different, right? I didn't make that decision to leave my country. That decision was made by my parents to immigrate to the U.S. when I was around 10. And regardless, Venezuela is still part of my everyday life through family and community. I've asked many times, why did you leave? Why don't we go back? Ever since I was little. And it's always been, hey, the oppression began early on and we want a better future for you. We want to build a life outside of Venezuela and do the best that we can to return once things settle.

19:43Or this is that very first initial step, right? But even though I didn't live the hardship firsthand, I did experience the hardship of being an immigrant, right? Like the language barriers, growing up away from my family, not growing up around my cousins, not being able to go back and having that wish to return to the Venezuela, my parents and grandparents, they tell me it's so beautiful. It's filled with kind people. It's filled with culture. And that's what I want to go back to. What are you all thinking now? You're outside your country. Are you thinking of going back home? No, I don't think I'm going back home right now.

20:23For what I see, the regime is still there. Delce Rodriguez is no different than Maduro. Yeah, it's comfort that Maduro is in prison right now. It's something that we celebrate as Venezuelans, but we don't see a real change right now. The fear inside of Venezuela, we have a little hope that things are changing. Maybe this Donald Trump pressure can do something, but right now, this is not a good idea to go back to Venezuela. For me, not. I don't have plans to return. I didn't have plans before. I don't have plans in the near future. I think the conditions and the very specific circumstances that made me not return are still there.

21:13I believe that many things have to change before many of us think to go back home. I believe that if they don't get removed, all the Rodriguez family out of the government, just out of Cabello, we clean the Venezuelan army, nothing will change. Absolutely. And, you know, when we hear Tosia Rodriguez's name at the moment, what comes up is caution and unsafe, unsafeness, right? It's not safe for many people in question. Anything and everything needs to truly change on the ground for a mass movement of return. Can we end on something positive? What is it, Alejandro, when you think about your country that you remember positively about it?

21:56What is it that you miss about it? First than anything, I'll say that I miss the people because even if we were struggling with different things, everybody was always smiling, always something funny to say to make everybody, you know, try to keep going somehow. how the good sense of humor that Venezuelans have to carry on with life, it's quite unique. And obviously, my family, my friends, the food, the weather, 30 minutes away, the beach from my house, many things. I still feel the fresh air of my country when I think of my country. So I have hope to return back and hug my family that I left behind.

22:44And so I hope to do so. Venezuela is a beautiful country. We had a lot of tourists at the time and they see the quality of our country. It's not about being rich or having stuff. It's about a paradise where we live in. Maria, you left your country 11 years ago. If you do go back, tell me, what's the first thing you'll do? Maybe I would go to a church where we have a virgin that we miss very much the tradition of Divina Pastora, which is on January 14th. That would be my first. Yeah, definitely. I would go there. And Barbara, tell me a bit about your passport. Do you have a Venezuelan passport?

23:27Are you getting one? And you've heard the other three now. Does that make you think, even if I can't go there permanently, I need to go? Actually, since in the U.S. the embassy is closed, I had to travel last year to Mexico City to renew my passport. And I've been waiting for my passport for about a year. I just got noticed that it is in Mexico City and I have to personally go and pick it up. So I have it in my travel plans to go to Mexico City. Once I get my passport, I really want to go back and see my cousins and family. because even through like all the hardship, Venezuelans are kind, resilient, full of life.

24:06Like you will still see them dancing with music and humor. They're super warm and everyone has that sense of family. And I just carry that with me, right? And even as a travel advisor, I dream of going back to the very beautiful places that Venezuela has, right? So I get to help people, thankfully go to the best beaches in the Caribbean, but I can't help them just yet. go to Los Roques or Margarita. I help people go on beautiful hikes in Italy, but I would love to have them go to Merida and experience the Andean mountains in my own country, or have them see the wildlife in the Amazon of our country, or the llanos that we have.

24:50That's the beauty that we have, not just places, but people. And that combined is why so many of us when I go back. Barbara, Maria, Alejandro and Isaac, all Venezuelans living abroad. Our thanks to them and to all of our guests this week for sharing their experiences. I'm James Reynolds. You've been listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

25:20I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the border and the newsroom and the trading floor. That's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive. But even though I've got questions, join me, Merrin's Upset Web, every week for my show, Merrin Talks Money, from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists, and experts about how markets really work. And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you. Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.