Living in fear on South Africa's farms

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0:30World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Eric Marante had always been a fighter. Age 21, he found himself with a squad stationed on a bridge in Iraq. On the morning of April 21st, 2007, a truck packed with 3 ,000 pounds of explosives was detonated just a few feet below them. This is a story about a man who turned pain into purpose. Therapy for me is being in the boxing ring. It's just good for your soul, good for your body. This is season four of Legacy, Defiant. Search Defiant Legacy wherever you get your podcast.

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1:53In February, American President Donald Trump signed an executive order which said that South African people who are Afrikaners, descendants of mainly Dutch settlers who arrived in the 17th century, could be admitted as refugees in the USA, as they were victims of unjust racial discrimination. President Trump's move to prioritize resettlement of white South African farmers reignited global controversy when he referenced widely disputed claims of forced appropriation of land and what he has described as a genocide against white farmers. Claire Mawisa is a reporter for BBC Africa Eye. She recently traveled to meet some farmers in South Africa.

2:41I asked her how common violence and murders on farms are. Murders on farms are not a common thing in South Africa. We understand that and we accept that the crime rate and the murder rate in South Africa is very high. So around 60 people in South Africa are murdered on a daily basis. And just to give you some stats is that from October 2024, so last year, October to March this year, there were 18 murders on farms. That's one eight. And 16 of those murder victims were black and only two were white. So it puts in perspective that most of the murders and most of the crime that's happening in South Africa is happening in urban areas and not in rural areas where these farmers are.

3:37And most of the victims are black and not white. Now, are farmers in South Africa usually white? Yes, that's the historical legacy of apartheid, that white people forced black people off land. And 30 years into democracy, 72 % of farmland in South Africa is still white owned. So that makes the majority of the farmers in this country white. And so when a farm murder, when there's crime, when there's an invasion on a farm, so people have come in to steal, most of the time it will be a white farmer because they own most of the land. So I think that is one of the redress issues that South Africa is currently trying to figure out how we transform that.

4:30When you were investigating this story, you obviously spoke to some white farmers to see how they felt about the whole situation. And one man you spoke to, he was called Martinez. And he has applied for refugee status in the US. And we have a clip of you speaking to him. Let's have a listen to this clip first. Does the thought of leaving South Africa, Does that break your heart? Does that make you sad? Yes, that makes me really sad. I've been born and raised here, but I'm prepared to do that. To get a better life for my wife and children. Because I don't want to be slaughtered and be hanged in a ball or what's it.

5:12No, I don't want that. So Claire, when you met him, did you feel like he was genuinely worried about his safety and his family's safety? Absolutely. You could feel the tension in the air, the anxiety that him, his wife and his children felt. It was palpable. I think even more so because his wife's grandfather and his own grandfather were murdered on their farms. so they do have a generational trauma I can say about farm murders it has touched their families directly and I remember he said to me that he didn't feel like it was if he would ever be attacked he felt it was inevitable he felt it was just a matter of time and so that was quite heavy on his heart and you could tell that it was a very real fear that he was speaking about even in the document you see all the security measures he has taken to protect himself and his family.

6:16Nobody would invest so much in so much security if they really didn't fear for their life. When you asked him if he might be targeted because he's white, what did he say? He said that he felt it was because he was white that he would be a victim of a crime. He does acknowledge the difficult history that South Africa has had of racial segregation, of racism being a policy in this country and legalized. And so he felt and he shared with me that black people probably still have some level of anger or unresolved resentment. And he didn't want to be a victim of somebody taking out that resentment when he felt he was not responsible for the decisions of the past.

7:12And so he didn't feel like it was just opportunistic criminals who would break in and just steal from him. He felt it would be a targeted thing, a targeted attack because he was Afrikaans. And he felt that it wasn't necessarily something that would end up in them even stealing anything. He just felt like he would be murdered. And that would be in what he even says in the film, a hate crime. He also mentioned a song that was sung at a rally of opposition politician Julius Malema. Could you tell us about that? Yes. So during apartheid, there were songs that were sung by black people. These were struggle songs trying to really get people going, especially when there would be protests.

8:08And this song was called Kill the Boer. And in the understanding and the context of South Africa at that time, it meant kill oppression or kill apartheid. And so the song is still sung by a prominent South African opposition party leader. And its direct translation is Kill the Farmer. And there are Africana groups that have taken this issue to our local courts. And it was initially banned. On appeal, it was unbanned. The reason why we featured the song is because it just helps illustrate some of the reasons Afrikaners are using to leave the country because they feel targeted. They feel like the song when it is sung still at political rallies today is very distressing to themselves.

9:03And it was something that was highlighted by a few Africana farmers that people are allowed to sing the song about killing white Afrikaans farmers and nobody realizes the impact that has on our psyche. So it was an illustration of all of that historical trauma coming into play and being very distressing for somebody in or an Africana in modern day South Africa. Claire, we have a clip of another farmer you spoke to. Let's have a listen. I think the people who are calling it white genocide have no real understanding of what a genocide is. What happened in Rwanda is genocide. What's happening to white farmers is very bad, but I don't think you can call it genocide.

9:52So, Claire, what else did this man say to you? What was his feelings about crime on farms in general? So this farmer's name is Morgan, and he's lived on his farm, or his family has owned that farm for six generations. And he lives and he works quite closely with the Black community in the rural area where his farm is at. And he said that he thinks that crime affects everyone equally in this country. He makes an example in the film that if criminals feel like there's something to steal on a land or on property, they will go and they will steal regardless of whether the property owner is white or black.

10:36And he has seen it. He has seen black farmers also being victims of crime. So he understands in the context of South Africa, crime is bad. crime really is out of control. And he feels like it's not necessarily something that is directed to a particular group. He feels like everyone is being affected equally. It's not that crime is not a problem. It's the fact that it's almost indiscriminate. You also spoke to black farmers. What did they say about their safety? We spoke to a gentleman called Tabor, and he said that he has been a victim of crime. He is an emerging black farmer, so he's not as established as a Morgan, for example.

11:21But he said exactly what Morgan had said to us. He said that every single farmer, black or white, is worried about crime, whether it's stock theft, whether it is people coming on their farm to steal maize or people breaking into farmhouses. to steal whatever they can to sell on. And he said that it's very distressing that the crime against white people is being prioritized when they too, as black farmers, are victims of crime. And for your investigation, Claire, you also went to a separatist town. Tell us about it. Yes, I went to a town called Orania. And Oranya is an Afrikaner separatist town in South Africa And it really is quite far away from any urban centre So it's really deep in rural South Africa It was established as we understand it and what we see today in the 1990s by a group of Africana families who could see that black oppression in a country where the population is majority black was not going to last forever and that white dominance was going to end inevitably.

12:47And so they established this town and only Afrikaners live in that town. You need to qualify and you have to apply to live in this town and you need to have a clean criminal record. You must have no debt. You must identify as an Africana. You must speak Afrikaans and you must live a Christian way of life. And they got into this conversation because they feel like instead of Afrikaners wanting to leave the country and seek refugee status in America, they would prefer it if Afrikaners join their movement or join that town. The population is only 2 ,500. In a population of South Africa of 60 million, you can see that they're actually less than a drop in the ocean.

13:38But we had to hear their point of view because there were representatives from Orania that went to Washington to speak to Trump's administration and plea for, instead of Afrikaners going to America, perhaps the Trump administration could give them money to basically fuel and support their movement in South Africa and create a, what should I say, a safe haven for Afrikaners within the borders of South Africa. It's a very controversial town in South Africa. It is the only white separatist town in South Africa. And they wanted to make sure that they are an option, not just the U.S. Claire, when you went there, how did it feel?

14:26Listen, it was very strange. I was the only person of color. They don't believe in black labor even. Everyone is white. Everyone only spoke Afrikaans. People were kind, but it did feel like a bit surreal for me to be in this town, in this country that I've grown up in. it felt like a bubble. But I must be honest, there was no animosity. They were very happy to educate me about why they came into being and why they believe that this is the future for Afrikaans people. So very strange experience. I don't think I'll forget it anytime soon. Claire, doing all of this investigation and talking to all of these people, if you had to explain why these white farmers felt so under attack for being white, What would you say?

15:21A few things. I think in the past in South Africa, white people were given preference for everything. They enjoyed police, a police system that worked for them and not against them like black people. They enjoyed services and they enjoyed living in just their own suburbs with black people living very far away, pushed very far away. And in this modern day South Africa where everyone is treated equally, that is something that is very difficult for some people to wrap their heads around because this has all happened in our lifetime. I'm not talking about something that happened 100 years ago. In my living memory, I know what it's like to be othered in my own country and white people being preferred.

16:12I say a little bit about it in the film that I do feel like from being given preferential treatment to now being treated equally, that might not sit well with people. Because unfortunately, the police are now not just reserved for you. They need to protect the rest of the country. Crime doesn't just affect black people. It also now affects you in your white suburbs, unfortunately. And so that's why I think perhaps for them, the feeling of being treated equal feels potentially like persecution. They've understood it through that lens when actually they are just having a normal South African experience, which unfortunately is a violent one.

16:56Another reason why I think perhaps white Afrikaners are feeling persecuted is because of the legacy of apartheid in this country. There is a tension in the air. There are many difficult conversations that have not yet happened. And so that perhaps is also something that sits on their conscience that they've inherited something that we don't quite yet know how to deal with and navigate in this country. Thank you, Claire Mawisa, who reports for BBC Africa Eye. You can watch her film online. Just search for White Asylum, America's South African refugees.

17:40You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service. The Interview, the best conversations from across the BBC. Today we are spending trivians on war and peanuts on peace. With the people shaping our world. You're making decisions that will have long-term consequences for the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Wind power in the United States has been subsidised for 33 years. Solar for 25 years, that's enough! The interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Eric Marante had always been a fighter. Age 21, he found himself with a squad stationed on a bridge in Iraq.

18:27On the morning of April 21st, 2007, a truck packed with 3 ,000 pounds of explosives was detonated just a few feet below them. This is a story about a man who turned pain into purpose. Therapy for me is being in the boxing ring. It's just good for your soul, good for your body. This is season four of Legacy. Defiant. Search Defiant Legacy wherever you get your podcasts. I am Nina Khrushcheva, the great-granddaughter of Nikita Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union in 1962. And I'm Max Kennedy, the nephew of U.S. President John F. Kennedy. We explore what was a terrifying moment in history. The story of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

19:13How close the world came to nuclear war. And what they had to do to pull it back from the brink. The bomb, Kennedy and Khrushchev. All episodes available now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

19:30This is The Fifth Floor, and I'm Farah Nakemidi.

19:39Kings or chiefs in Ghana don't hold much formal or political power, but they are hugely important to people and hold a lot of cultural and social influence. They will help settle disputes, oversee cultural events, and generally lead the community. But there are also powerful royal women in Ghana. They are known as queen mothers, but they can be any woman close to the king. They've held power in certain parts of the country for a long time, but it seems that their influence is on the rise. It is a story that caught the eye of Stefania Okereke of BBC Focus on Africa. Ghana is made of different tribes, and in every tribe there's a chief that is known as a king.

20:27So a queen mother is a female traditional leader who works alongside chiefs in Ghana. And she's often come from the royal lineage of a community that represent women's heritage and interests and that advises the chiefs. It could be a mother, it could be a sister, it could be an auntie that also is in the royal family. They usually took on important roles from household roles to civil disputes to making sure they do advise their chiefs and families they have a really dignified role and it's quite high why did you decide to look into queen mothers in ghana yeah that's a good question yes i'm nigeria from the ibo tribe my family is from emo state but born and bred in italy that's the mix and i know that in nigeria we do have a conversation about chiefs and Lolo.

21:19The Lolo is the wife of the chief. And essentially, I thought, is that the same thing as queen mothers in Ghana? But more importantly, my hairdresser is Ghanaian. And every time I'm going to do my hair, she always put her program on YouTube. And I just, they're speaking in Tui, which is one of the languages spoken in Ghana. And she was just, for four hours, the amount of, the length of my hair, She was just putting on live this amazing women parading and celebrating. I did ask, who are they? And they were all Queen Mothers. I presented different villages, different towns. So you're a hairdresser here in London.

21:58Yes. Watches ceremonies of Queen Mothers in Ghana. Live, all the time. And what happens in those ceremonies? So from what I've seen, especially if you go on YouTube or you're just like on social media, the exact thing that happened is there are these beautifully regarded women who have now become queen mothers and represent their own town and village and they are wearing this kind of kaftan they are all colorful kente dress and they were all like queens they were all like lifted up by people who were following out through the parade and they were singing and dancing they were drums They were wearing specific jewellery.

22:39And I was just fascinated by that. And I just really wanted to go on a journey to understand what Queen Mothers do. So in those regions that Queen Mothers exist, what kind of roles do they have? Yeah, so the roles are different, depending on different communities, what's the need. But essentially, in overall, Queen Mothers do advise to the chief, but also do the central role in governance and succession, advising chiefs on community governance, the welfare of children and women in the community. They act as a custodians of traditions and culture. They be part of family disputes. If there's a problem between a wife and a husband, they go to the Queen Mother for advice.

23:22And I was speaking to one of the young Asantehima Queen Mother. Her name is Nana Hawa Ampem. She was telling me that her main thing, you have to serve the people. And the more you serve the people, the more you're being appreciated and people respect you and being loved from the community. So serving, having wisdom and sharing knowledge, that's one of the roles that a queen mother have. So you recently also spoke to another young woman called Chanel Boteng, and she recently was unstooled. What does that word mean? So in Ghana, traditional leaders, queen mothers, chiefs, are installed rather than actually being crowded.

24:09And it's a symbol of power and authority. It's a stool rather than a crown. So installment is a symbolic way to say authority. It's like sitting on the throne. And there's a whole ceremony around that. So she was recently installed earlier this year. And her story was really interesting because she decided to go on a personal journey to find out, okay, can I be a queen mother? And she does a lot of community work anyway. She's an entrepreneur and she's quite connected back home in Ghana. She was told by her mother that she's actually part of a royal family, if you look back in a lineage. And her uncle advised her.

24:50And she's based here in the UK? She's been based here in the UK. I did ask her, how would you operate? what's the duty as a queen mother from London. And she was explaining that, of course, she will travel to Ghana, to Accra, and to make sure that her duties are fulfilled, especially when she's being called to different meetings and commitments. But from here, she's always still connecting and she's being consulted. And Stefania, from what I understand, in the north of the country in Ghana, it's not a tradition to have queen mothers, but we are seeing that they are growing in prominence and we are seeing more and more of queen mothers in that region.

25:33What is happening? So historically we know that Ghana had been more male-dominated, the chieftances in terms of system, and now with the need to kind of be more close to having women roles, women leaders, women who have a role in politics. There's much more of a need of women leaders and not only men, especially looking at the society, how it's being built traditionally, it's much more male-dominated chiefnesses in terms of the system. So having women in political role, societal role, it helps representing women in these positions and be more inclusive. Obviously, there can be a little bit of resistance, especially when you are bringing a new kind of role.

26:22If you think into Northern Ghana, the male dominant system might have to be challenged on these things. And they have to share power and cooperate, having more of a cohesive and inclusive way of introducing new roles and new rules. And what do your audiences think about Queen Mothers? I think the reaction is surprise. because we're living here in the West. Sometimes traditions can be a little bit blurred. So having to go back to our roots, but not even go back to understanding how things are actually operating nowadays is so fascinating. And Queen Mother's doing their role, empowering younger generation, more women who are educated in Africa, women who are taking positional leadership.

27:08I think it's all important. So it's definitely a topic that is positive and well embraced. Thank you, Stefania Okereke.

27:24Now, if you're in the mood for more stories from our fantastic language service journalists, you can listen to all of our previous episodes online or wherever you get your podcasts. We have stories that look behind the headlines from all over the world. Last week, we spoke to Samira Hosni from BBC Monitoring about how one year after the fall of President Bashar al-Assad in Syria, interim president Ahmad al-Shara is using his appearance, basketball and jokes to position his public image. The first day when he announced Assad's fall, he was wearing a military uniform and he had a long beard, which is a note to his militant past, because radical Muslims usually have long beards.

28:16This is one of their hallmarks. Then a few days later, he appeared in TV interviews, dressed in a suit and a tie and a trimmed beard. Yeah, I remember that, Clef. It was really striking. Which is a sort of positioning himself between the hardliners, the austere look of Islamists and hardliners, and the clean shaven look of the mainstream Muslims. Politicians and non-Salaaf. So he's in the middle, but it is still a big shift. Huge shift. We've seen like a steady stream of video clips on social media, showing him playing pool, shooting basketball hoops. You can find that interview and many others.

29:10Just search for the documentary podcast and look for The Fifth Floor. That's all from me, Farhanika Amiti and the rest of The Fifth Floor team. Thanks for listening.