Mamdani New York

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1:12It's just past midnight on a Wednesday in June. A beaming politician clad in a dark suit strides confidently onto a stage to face a room packed with adoring supporters. He stares into the crowd full of admiration. I will be your Democratic nominee for the mayor of New York City. The man on stage isn't just any politician looking to unseat an incumbent mayor in America's biggest city. The man on stage is Ziran Mamdani, a 33-year-old Democratic socialist who for much of his months-long campaign was polling in the single digits. He catapulted to prominence on promises of lowering the cost of living, but his faith played a starring role in his message.

1:57And if he wins in the November general election, he could be New York City's first Muslim mayor.

2:06I'm Victoria Craig, and you're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In this episode of Heart and Soul, which focuses on the intersection of faith and culture in communities around the world, we'll explore the role religion has played in fueling Mamdani's unlikely bid for New York City's top job And we'll ask voters how their own beliefs are factoring into the decisions they'll be making at ballot boxes this autumn. For Zoran Mamdani, the road to Gracie Mansion, the official New York City mayor's residence in Manhattan, began last October. In his first campaign video, Working people are being pushed out of the city they built.

2:46A mayor could change this. We see Mamdani strolling down a sunny city street wearing a white kurta. It's a straight-cut, tunic kind of top commonly worn in South Asia. It's as if he seeks to shed the image of a traditional politician and lean into the qualities, culture, and beliefs that set him apart from his establishment competitors. Nearly 60 % of adults in New York City identify as Christian, according to data by the Pew Research Center from 2023 to 2024. That share of the population has dropped over the last roughly two decades by around 10 percentage points. At the same time, the Jewish population has stayed steady at 6 percent, the biggest cluster of that religion outside Israel and a key voting bloc here.

3:33The proportion of Muslims is smaller, having risen from 1 percent to 3 percent. Mamdani's candidacy then has resonated with people in communities that have historically felt underrepresented in the population and in city politics. To find out more about how Mamdani's faith is factoring into voters' decisions to cast their ballots, let's take a subway ride to Queens, one of New York City's five boroughs. It's a fitting place to start our journey because in the New York State Assembly, Mamdani represents District 36. We're heading to Jackson Heights in neighboring District 34. It's where I find Fahad Ahmed, who came to the U.S.

4:16from Pakistan when he was 11. He became a citizen in 2000 and is now the executive director of an organization called Drum Beats. It's the sister group of DRUM, which stands for DESE's Rising Up and Moving. The group seeks to organize Indo-Caribbean and South Asian communities to drive political change. And it endorsed Mamdani on the day he launched his campaign. A lot of it was down to his policy platform, but faith factored in as well. Identity by itself was not enough and was not the sole factor, but it was a factor. In a city where the vast majority of cab drivers are South Asian, You know, he very early on developed a relationship with the New York Taxi Workers Alliance and would regularly check in on them.

5:06And so it's because of that relationship that he got pulled into the hunger strike. And so the memory of him having done that hunger strike was very visible when we would knock on doors. Any door we knocked and people were like, oh, that guy, I'm a taxi driver. Of course, I'm voting for him and everybody in my family is. Where do you fall on this sort of political spectrum? Yeah, for me, identity is not at all a factor by itself. I also come from a Muslim home. I also went through a period of, in some ways, moving away from the faith I was raised in and then re-embracing it in my own understanding.

5:52it has then also very strongly informed my political understandings of a world that should be equitable we can't just look at only our own self-interest we but actually think about the collective interest of everybody and not only in uh you know limited by geography like in this city or in this country but thinking holistically that's what's so interesting about this race in this moment in time, because one of the biggest issues for voters was the war in Gaza. And Israel, what is your view on how that has factored in and how those views affect your decision to vote on your representatives here in New York City?

6:40Because so many of our home countries came, went through the struggles against colonialism, the issue of Palestine is always deeply held. And so there is a deep level of solidarity there. And so when Zoran spoke to that struggle, it was an affirmation when things have been just so utterly brutal and being very across the board, being recognized as a genocide. I do not disagree in that this is a highly charged issue and the use of the term, but I do believe it is the most accurate description of what is going on. And what we've also found is that... U.S. politicians have still tried to avoid naming it as such.

7:24And so around being able to talk about it in this moment meant a lot to people. I want to pick up on that because that has become controversial. Those terms that he's used, genocide, to refer to what's happening in Gaza, and also the phrase globalize the intifada, which Mamdani has been asked about several times in interviews and hasn't denounced. What's your view on those particular issues and I guess how it matters to you to hear those things? A lot of the authorities, places that are the experts on genocide have increasingly, and at this point, very large numbers of them are calling it a genocide.

8:06And I think the fact that Zoran was able to call it such very early on very deeply resonated with me and with a lot of people in our community. Because what it conveyed to people, again, was two things. Not only that he's saying the thing that we feel in our hearts, but that he's saying the thing that is actually difficult to say. And we know he's going to get attacked for it, and he's still saying it. and I think that's the piece that for us has historically been an important way to evaluate candidates it is easy to come to one of our community events say three words in our language it doesn't cost anything there's no risk but taking a position that actually may get you attacked and in this case will definitely get you attacked and then being steadfast about it And it really brought on the ground, like what we heard from people was like, I am feeling hopeful about a candidate for the first time or in a long time.

9:20Indeed, the phrase globalize the intifada has been a flashpoint in New York City. Some voters, particularly among the Jewish community, see it as an overt call to violence, which has forced Mamdani to try to walk a fine line as a politician seeking to represent all 8.5 million New York City residents. Here he is on NBC's Meet the Press the day after he won the Democratic primary in June. That's not language that I use. The language that I use and the language that I will continue to use to lead this city is that which speaks clearly to my intent, which is an intent grounded in a belief in universal human rights.

9:56And ultimately, that's what is the foundation of so much of my politics, the belief that freedom and justice and safety are things that to have meaning have to be applied to all people. And that includes Israelis and Palestinians. But do you actually condemn it? I think that's the question. One Jewish New Yorker who has been watching Mamdani's actions and listening to the words he chooses to use is Aliza Licht. She's a brand strategist, author and podcaster turned Jewish activist. Next stop, Madison Avenue on D66. We head to see her now on Manhattan's Upper East Side, which hosts a large Jewish population and is a neighborhood where earlier voters backed former Governor Andrew Cuomo and city controller Brad Lander to be the Democratic nominee for mayor.

10:40It's more than just my vote. My entire position on activism stands for Jewish civil rights and being pro-Israel. And since October 7th, we have seen how politicians sort of divide across those lines in terms of where they stand. So my mission in terms of activism is making sure that Jews have the same civil rights as everyone else. We're not asking for special treatment. We're asking to be safe in our environment and our home on our college campuses. It stems from the fact that what we've seen since October 7th is complete anarchy, as far as I'm concerned, on the streets of New York, on our college campuses.

11:20And Zoram Amdani is somebody who not only supports that movement, but condemns Israel, does not believe that Israel should be a Jewish state, will not denounce phrases like globalize the Antifada, which call for violence against Jews. I mean, the list of issues with this person is lengthy. And he's really good. Listen, I'm a former publicist. I understand how to phrase an answer in which you're not really answering the question, but you can pivot to what you want to say. He knows how to cozy up with sort of these progressive Jews. And in fact, in a recent Siena poll, only 20 % of New York City Jews were actually supportive of Amdani's policies.

12:09I can tell clearly based on this conversation and the videos that you've posted across your social media channels. You're very passionate about this issue. You're a very successful brand consultant. You've been at this quite a long time. But politics and Jewish issues in particular are a fairly new issue that you've been publicly vocal about. Why did you decide to go public? It really just started October 7th. I felt absolutely compelled to speak out. I am the granddaughter of four Holocaust survivors. And I thought to myself, you know, what would they say if I was more concerned about clients or follower numbers or even friends, quite frankly, because the issue was so clear.

12:58I not only made a decision to be outspoken post-October 7th, I stopped my book tour. I stopped my podcast. I stopped everything because truly, I really don't think anything that I could be doing is more important than standing up for Jewish civil rights and protecting Israel as a Jewish state. Now, what I didn't expect to do is to have, you know, as time went on, to have this sort of post-October 7th activism bleed into actual politics. But I started to dig into all of these policies and started to realize that on the local level, elections are really what is shaping our future. And a lot of people don't pay attention to the local elections.

13:46So people do not understand that anyone has the right to criticize a government. No government is perfect. We can criticize our own government, Israel's government, every single country's government. That is different than saying that Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself. So why is Israel on the docket now for a New York election? At the end of the day, I think the DSA has figured out that an anti-Israel strategy is a winning strategy for them. I just want to clarify, the DSA is the Democratic Socialists of America. That's the party that Mom Donnie represents. Correct. So what does Israel have to do with New York?

14:26Or what does Israel have to do with anti-Semitism? And this is where the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, the International Holocaust Alliance definition, is everything and why every politician needs to support it. It says anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism because if you do not believe that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state, you are an anti-Semite. That doesn't mean you can't criticize Netanyahu, but if you don't believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, that we don't have a right for self-determination, then you are an anti-Semite. So how is all of that shaping your views?

15:08Who is there a candidate that does represent what you want to see at the top of New York City administration? Right now, and I have been very public about this, I have sat out of declaring a candidate because it doesn't benefit at us to jump the gun too soon. So I'm having a lot of conversations with different super PACs and trying to figure out basically how can we collectively, we don't have to agree, we have to align. You're listening to the documentary on the BBC World Service.

15:45We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web. US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse. Move in now. Police! From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Search for World of Secrets wherever you get your BBC podcasts. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world.

16:29This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to put all the issues on the table that keep me up at night. The Interview, the best conversations from across the BBC. We're coming up against technology companies that are richer and more powerful than many nation states. With the people shaping our world. There are those that believe that the power of law should be replaced by the law of power.

17:09The Interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

17:19On today's episode of Heart and Soul, we're exploring how Democratic mayoral candidate Zoran Mamdani burst onto New York City's political scene and the ways in which his decision to speak out on faith issues is influencing voters.

17:39We're making our way now to Southern Brooklyn, where we find Rabbi Miriam Grossman. She spent her spring and early summer canvassing her neighborhood in support of Mamdani and encouraging others to vote for him, too.

17:56So how does she, as a Jewish woman and a rabbi, feel about controversial phrases which have become a focus during the campaign, like globalize the intifada and Mamdani's refusal to condemn it? First of all, I just want to say that as a Jewish person myself, I have felt the feeling of fear of being in a synagogue space and not knowing entirely what could happen. And knowing that we live in a moment with the rise of, you know, all kinds of really vile violence that absolutely includes anti-Semitism, that I feel that myself, too. It's real. I've been very moved when I have heard Momdani describe understanding that feeling.

18:38And I've been very moved and excited about his plans to increase education around anti-Semitism by 800%. I really do believe that's how you combat it. And I think in terms of that phrase specifically, I am very glad that he had a journey of then coming to say more clearly that it's not a phrase he would use. In a good faith way, I truly believe that he cares about Jewish people and he cares about Palestinian people. It feels like very bad faith arguments that he is being portrayed as an anti-Semite simply because he's Muslim, simply because he is a person of color, simply because he cares about Palestinian rights.

19:22what I have seen and felt and heard from him over the years in New York is a true care for Jewish people. I think that he has shown that to be true and I think that it should be believed. How do you look at some of these phrases and some of these things that have become real flashpoints in society as a Jewish voter? How do you think about that and the importance of semantics and language? Language really matters and words really matter and I also think that action and material safety and well-being matter the most above all. I am someone who, like many human rights organizations, including B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights organization, do feel that what is happening is a genocide.

20:08I think it matters a lot less what we call it than that we stop it. Frankly, I think I am coming from a feeling as a rabbi of commitment both to the well-being of my own community, of Jewish people and our safety, and also a deep commitment to the legacy of the Holocaust not being forgotten. And not just for us, but this idea of never again for anyone. I feel a responsibility to that. Many people do. If we can, in that same spirit of collaboration and grace, if it's possible to keep listening past the sort of first instinct, potentially, how to how to hear who are the folks who may be using different language but all want that same thing matters tremendously.

20:59Do you think he can be a leader for New York City who can really transcend religion, which I feel like in the past has really been shelved? It hasn't really been a talking point like it has been in this campaign. Do you feel like he's that bridge, can be that bridge? I think so. I mean, it's like, look at my day when I was canvassing outside and the streets were filled with Jewish canvassers, Muslim canvassers, Hindu canvassers. And we were all just out and about having a wonderful day together in the streets of New York. And I think that, you know, he's tremendously popular and huge numbers of Jewish people voted for him, you know.

21:40So there is a true range of where folks are coming from. And I do think that it's not always as reflected in various media settings, the depth and scope of how many Jewish supporters Mamdani has and how many supporters of all faiths Mamdani has. So I do think it's an incredibly exciting moment for our city politically and in terms of bridge building and collaboration. So strong is Rabbi Grossman's support for Momdani and his promise to lower the cost of child care that she even canvassed with her three-year-old daughter, Shaina. Here, why don't we move this way a little bit? Let's throw on Momdani's hands.

22:25Yeah. Some people gave them to us. There was a day we had just finished door knocking and we had placards. There was a mosque that had just let out from prayers. A few men came by and they were handing out their Mom Donnie placards and canvassing. And my daughter was like, oh, Mom Donnie, yeah. Or she said Zoran. And so they kind of like handed back and forth the canvassing lit. And it was just such a sweet moment where I was like, I want us to know each other. I want us to work together. And the fact that we're working towards this, we are not as divided as the kind of most cynical and corrupt forces in this country would have us believe.

23:04Let's go home. Okay. To dig more into this idea of political division, we're boarding the Q train back to Manhattan. Khalid Lul, or Cal as he's known, is based in Midtown. He's a self-described libertarian Muslim who co-founded a non-profit 10 years ago called the Muslim American Leadership Alliance. It's a member of the UN Economic and Social Council, and the idea behind it is to support individuals who want to express their own beliefs while building bridges with other faiths. You know, I was born in the States, moved to Syria, moved back to the States and lived in big cities like Chicago, LA, New York.

23:45Faith hasn't been very easy for me to talk about or to even practice because you're often framed into like one type of Islam. Islam is such a diverse religion, even within my own family. You have women that cover their hair, but you also have women that don't cover their hair, but they dress modestly. Also, same with men. You have men that identify as Muslim, but they don't pray five times a day. Faith is very fluid, and I don't think religion should be part of politics or political views. I believe people should be able to do whatever they want freely, as long as they're not hurting others or breaking the law.

24:22Tell me your thoughts about how the New York City mayor's race is shaping up. First of all, I respect anyone who enters public service, but my concern with Zahra Mamdani is that his politics do not reflect the lived reality of most Muslim Americans. I also spent years living in Syria under a dictatorship that was run by a minority religious group. That experience taught me how dangerous it is when faith is used as a political weapon or a political tool. In that system, religion wasn't about dignity or belonging. It was manipulated to divide people and dehumanize entire communities. I've now lived in New York City for over 10 years.

25:04In New York City, I see Muslim Americans striving for something very different. They're looking to belong, to contribute, to live their faith as part of a pluralistic society. That's why I worry about politicians like Zahra Madani who use faith and identity as political weapons. From my personal experience, I know that path does not unify. It fractures. Other Muslim voters that I've talked to have said sort of the opposite idea in that they haven't felt like they have seen their faith themselves represented in this way in politics, particularly in New York City. Do you think that there is an opportunity for somebody who is Muslim who can lead the city in a different way than Mamdani is proposing?

25:50New York City's Muslim community is incredibly diverse. And that's why I think it's so unfair for someone to say that someone like Mamdani will represent Muslim Americans. Because you have Arabs, you have South Asians, you have African, Afro-Caribbean, Central Asian, and many more. But Mamdani tends to collapse it into one narrative of protest. By doing so, he's actually marginalizing many Muslims whose priorities and values differ. At a personal level, my faith teaches me to seek dignity and coexistence. That's different from turning politics into a stage for anger or division. When politics is reduced to anger or slogans, it distorts that calling.

26:34And let's talk about some of those slogans because they've really become talking points throughout this campaign. One of those is globalize the Intifado. He's also called what's happening in Gaza a genocide. But I'm curious how you view that through the lens of religion, but also voting. Advocating for justice is very important. But how you do it really matters. If it's framed with hostility, it really fuels division. And one of the things that I dislike about this topic is that for decades, Muslim Americans have been boxed into this Palestine-Israel conflict. And I really want us to change the narrative.