Returning to Gaza

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0:41Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. In BBC OS Conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. This time, we're hearing from Garzans hoping to reunite with their families. For the first time since May 2024, people have been allowed to cross between Gaza and Egypt through the Rafah crossing, seen by many Palestinians as a lifeline to the outside world. Israel reopened the border after the body of the last Israeli hostage was returned. As we record this programme on Friday lunchtime, only a few of an estimated 20 ,000 sick and wounded people in the territory have been allowed through for medical treatment abroad.

1:25People are also coming back into Gaza, but again, the numbers allowed so far are very limited. In our conversations, we've brought together Palestinian friends and families separated by the war between Israel and Hamas to share their experiences and to find out what their hopes are for the future. We're going to start with three Gazans now living abroad. Mohammed has lived here in the UK for 20 years, but still considers Gaza his home. Rwanda is a student, currently in Ireland. And Tagrid is a sports journalist in Egypt who left Gaza in 2023. She's been separated from her teenage children ever since and can't wait to return.

2:05Yes, it is my land. I will be back to Gaza for my family, for my kids, of course. It is normal for anyone to be outside of the home for his work if he needs to rest, if he needs to travel. But in my situation, I go just with my work. Then I can't go back again to my house because the crossing of Rafah is bombing. Then I can't go back to my home. I am still until now in Cairo with my mother and waiting to go back to my kids again. I leave my children now to 800 days. I can't see my children for all this time. And I hope to hug my children again. When I left in December 2023, it was one of the most difficult decisions I made in my life because I envisaged being in a situation where Israel would not allow us to return.

2:58And while similar to Tahrid, I still, I guess I maintain the hope and try and maintain optimism to be able to go back. I still, I feel quite skeptical. We as Palestinians, as Palestinians from Gaza, particularly have lived all our lives in some way controlled by Israel. When I was born outside Gaza in 1979, my mother had to make a special effort to be able to get me registered to actually have the ability to live inside Palestine. And it seems we've returned to the situation where Israel now has extended its occupation and control of every aspect of our lives. And so I guess I think we were all feeling a degree of hope when we heard that Rafah was opening as part of the agreement.

3:49But at the same time, until we see the reality on the ground, I guess I'll believe it when I see it. I want to bring in Rwanda, who's in Dublin. Tell us your thoughts, Rwanda, about trying to use the Rafah crossing now that it is open for some. Yeah, I have been discussing the possibility of returning Gaza that the Rafah Kursing has reopened. It is a very difficult decision. So Gaza is home and there is a strong emotional bond to return. But there are also some serious concerns about safety, living conditions and what would be returned to. So until that moment, I haven't finalized the plans to go back to Gaza yet.

4:31But it's something we are actively considering, and I would be open to speak about the factors that influence my decision. So I will end my study in Ireland by the end of August 2026. And after that date, I will decide to either stay in Ireland or to go back to Gaza. but the situation in Gaza on the ground is still very uncertain and we are waiting safety, access to basic services and the well-being over returning to Gaza in this period. So it is a very hard decision. So my body is on the island but my soul is still in Gaza. So in every single moment I imagine myself in Gaza with my family and friends.

5:19So, yeah, after I finish my study, I will decide. When you speak to your family, do they say to you, Rwanda, please come back to Gaza? Or do they say, Rwanda, please stay in Ireland? No, they say to me that, Rwanda, you should go back to Gaza. After you finish your study, we are waiting you. They kept telling me every call. To go back to Gaza. Yeah, to go back to Gaza. Gaza is our homeland. Gaza is the hope that I will never give up. We shall reclaim our sense of life, the dignity and the unity despite the destruction. So I might return to Rabel, but Gaza is still our hope that I will never give up.

6:05The conversation that we're all having about what we should do, because my whole family is now, my immediate family is now outside Gaza, unfortunately. Materially, we could live very good lives here, as you guessed. I'm in the UK. But, you know, when we think of like the political situation in the UK, the rise of the far right, meaning rising racism and fascism, you know, I have been told, go home where you came from. And, you know, and I respond to that by saying, well, there's nothing that I would love more than to be in Palestine. And so that is the goal that I will always be aspiring to and working for, either by campaigning for an end to the occupation and also working to try and find a way to get back in this difficult situation.

6:54You're an environmental scientist. Is that something you do as a job when you get to Gaza? I mean I think Gaza needs everything that anyone can give to it right now and I think the area that I would have the most expertise in would be in environmental and atmospheric science but at the same time I'm you know I'm there for whatever needs to be done I'm also working on family some family related projects to do with re-establishing an IVF centre Al-Basma IVF centre that was destroyed by Israeli bombardment you know I'd be working on on my own personal projects but also on family related work. Tagari, in Gaza what was your normal life like?

7:34I was work, I was a normal mother I was with my kids in the morning go to school, then go to my work when I'm back I go with my daughter because she is a football player she's going to the club I go with my daughter to the club then I go with my kids to the club also because she is also playing football I see Yes, my daughter was in Irlanda. She was also in Denmark. She's playing football and go back to Gaza. My kids are playing football for three years. She sounds a very good player. Yes, I was a normal mother. There is my house, there is my husband, there is my kids. Go work, go to my family, go to the sea.

8:17Normal life, as anyone in Gaza. We have dreams, we have life. But now, everything is, I am losing, really, I miss a lot, a lot my kids. I miss to tell them, wake up, mama, I am ready, there is a breakfast, can we go together to school? I am a mother, really, every moment with my kids. I love details of my life. I miss that details, really. Rawanda, when you're in Gaza, what do you do with your family? I was working as a teacher in a secondary school. I was teaching English language for the secondary level. Yeah, and also worked as a translator and the interpreter. Yeah, it was a very, very nice life at that time.

9:06It was a normal life, quiet. We have family gatherings at the end of the weekends. And I usually go with my friends to a club for girls at the Khaniounis city because I'm from Khaniounis. We had a great life and we wish that we would be back again. What do you miss the most? Yeah, I miss the normal life, the routine life. When I go back to the school and then come back and go to my courses, I usually took courses like in computer, in Excel, in improving my skills. So I miss this life very much and I hope that it would return back one day. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but one day, yeah, it shall be back again.

9:59Mohamed, what do you miss? I miss the sea I miss the orange and olive trees and I guess the bustle of Gaza streets even though as each of the Rides-Norand will tell you it's a very noisy place but also just the beautiful noise of life and I miss just being home so we were very lucky that we had an apartment on the sea this no longer exists anymore because the building was bombed But, yeah, we were very lucky that we were able to see sunrise and sunset over the sea and having that really close access to that most beautiful Mediterranean coast that Gaza has. And that now it looks like the developers want to turn into luxury hotels and apartments for their profit.

10:54Mohamed, Rwanda and Tagoreed all hoping to return one day to Gaza. I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to The Documentary from the BBC World Service.

11:30strategists and experts about how markets really work. And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you. Follow Meron Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Our next guests studied at university together in Gaza, but have also been separated by the conflict. We brought together Ahmed, who's now in the Egyptian capital Cairo, and his friend Imad, who remained in Gaza. Still, I can remember those beautiful memories we were spending here every day in the morning. We were connecting each other. We were trying to study some stuff regarding our university.

12:08I can remember each of those memories. But Ahmed right now, during the war, did leave Gaza. And I got him after a lot of efforts that exerted because it was really difficult to connect people around Gaza due to the lack of internet, due to the very big destruction. So it was really hard to get him. But finally, we have reached each other and it's a very nice moment that I connect him and I know how is his situation because the past is unforgettable and I hope for him a very nice life. We used to share a lot of moments in university. If there is something I don't understand from the professor at the lecture, I go to Imad and Imad absolutely go and explain what I need.

12:54Physically, yes, I'm out of Gaza, but my soul and my memories, my loved ones are in Gaza, and I'm always feeling worried about them. And yes, this is our life. Imad, in Gaza, the Rafa crossing has opened to some Palestinians, and it is a complicated process to use that crossing. Have you considered trying to use the Rafa crossing to leave Gaza? I mean, I would like to travel, of course, in order to have a business, in order to have a complete of my study. But after that, I would like to return to Gaza. And under those circumstances, we do not have the complete freedom in order to go out and go in.

13:40So the situation is really dangerous. And I think circumstances are not suitable yet for a normal travel using a cross border of Rafa. So Gaza is still under siege despite the second phase of the ceasefire agreement that we are in. And today, here, just two kilometres from my side, one of the places has been exploded. And this place is a camp full of tents. A lot of people have been injured and the three people have been killed. Ahmed, really the same question to you, but in reverse. Do you want to try to use the RAFA crossing now to get from Cairo back into Gaza? I mean, Gaza is totally my home.

14:19And I deeply miss my friends, my homeland, my family, and my life even there. But at the same time, let's just imagine what life in Gaza now looks like. There are many challenges and obstacles that make returning myself and my family difficult right now. For sure, I want to go to my homeland to see Imad, to see my family. But what after I go? There is no infrastructure, there is no education, there is nothing left to go back. Given that you're friends and that you've helped each other out in your university course, what do you miss about not seeing each other in person? Actually, what I miss more about IMAAD is not just the classes or the studying we were studying together.

15:09It's the connection, actually, we had and the way we supported each other. Also, walking together across the campus, talking about assignments, I'm not. I remember I'm not telling me, Ahmed, there is much, there is a lot of assignments we had to do. Can we finish them before the deadlines? I also miss the jokes and also the challenges. Oh my God, I also miss the way he and me approach the problems. Also, I can add that the emotional support we gave each other during that time. So, yes. Like we were one generation, we were one cohort. And we were the generations our university was putting a lot of hopes, according to this new generation that we are going to hold what we have learned together to the next generation that we have here in Gaza Strip.

16:12Especially thousands of children are in need of our knowledge right now to teach them English as English is number one in the world. It's like international language and a lot of people from different majors are in need of it. So what I miss about Ahmed is intelligence. What I miss about Ahmed is his support. What I miss about Ahmed is his way of participating into too many projects around Gaza here. So he was a great person and each of those people while he traveled because of the current circumstances we have here in Gaza is a very big lose for our Palestinian universities because those people, I know how intelligent they are and know how big money they have.

16:52So I think one day if the Gaza is going to be great again and it's going to be rebuilt and there is a chance, then I think I hope that Ahmed and others will retain back, of course, and we do not force them. This is their future. But I would like to reconnect them again in order to relive those beautiful memories regarding the study, regarding professional and personal life, of course. Because our connection was not just in university. We were friends and brothers more than students. And this is the most important. It was a really lovely relation. We were like brothers from another mother. There is a point that always comes to my mind that why we are forced to live in this situation?

17:32Why we are not like other humans who live with each other, who have joys and who love for us? It's like in a blink of an eye, everything from October 2023, everything has gone. Friends Ahmed in Egypt and Imad, who's still in Gaza. Everyone we've heard from in our conversation so far wants to go back. So what is there to go back to? For our final conversation, we're going to hear from two people in Gaza who are also separated from their families. My colleague Rahul Tandon brought together Mohammed. He's living in a displacement camp in Khan Yunis with two of his sons. His wife, though, another son and daughter are in Egypt.

18:16And we'll hear also from Fede. Her husband is in Egypt recovering from heart surgery. He's yet to meet, to see, to hold their baby daughter. Feda gave her reaction to the border being reopened. We were waiting for this moment to happen because I'm waiting for the day I meet my husband who's in Egypt with my family, of course. But to be honest, the moment was not full of happiness as we still have these concerns of waiting more and we are afraid of not having this agreement to the end or to be incomplete, actually. But let me say that still happiness is here and optimism is still required in such cases, actually.

19:02In a similar case, actually, that my wife and my kids, they were mid-evac during the beginning of 2024. Approximately two years, I'm waiting the time that we can reunify again in Gaza. Unfortunately, at this moment, I cannot ask them to return back to Gaza because I don't have place for hosting my family and my kids as we are still in the tents and ID camps in Western Khanuins. By the way, it's a time of hopes when all the people hear that Rafah has opened. They think that it might be approved on the ground. And I don't know if the reality will be different. We will see in the coming days. Many families have been separated, haven't they, Mohammed, like yours?

19:58What has that been like? What is it like every day for you? Every day, our main goal is to keep survives, how to secure water, how to secure food. Early morning, moving to my work. I see the children around the camps. They are not looking for toys. They are only looking for water and community kitchen to collect their daily portion of the food. My kids and I have to leave every day in the early morning to stand in very long lines, waiting for our turn to fill in our bottles and things that we can fill as much as we can, of course, so we can drink. Still, let me tell you that this water is not good enough and it's not healthy for us and for our turn.

20:46but we don't have other choices or options. Feather, when you look out of where you live, describe to me what you see at the moment. What is there around you? Well, although I live in a home that is for my relatives, but still, when I open the window and look outside, I can see tens of tents that are surrounding the place where I live. And I can see people who are still suffering every day in every single moment trying to get the basics of their lives. I can see the fires that people are trying to cock on and the lines of water that people are standing there. I live on the fourth floor, so I can see the amount of destruction that is surrounding every single space of Gaza.

21:37I can see that Gaza is no more a fit place for people to live. And there are no more buildings, no more trees, and also no healthy things that people need to live. By the way, Kha 'noun is downtown and the city is fully destroyed. Has anything been rebuilt at all? Not rebuilt, we don't have. We are struggling to secure food. 100 ,000 of people still living in these camps where no privacy. So tents everywhere. If you see a look at approximately, I can see in front of my area, at least 150 ,000 persons in the ITB camps. We're talking all about tents only. With limited access roads to this area as it's overcrowded.

22:35I wonder for both of you, what gives you hope? What makes you smile occasionally and laugh on a daily basis, Veda? The sounds of my child laughing, running here and there, still talking about their dreams. They didn't lose their hopes and their dreams. They are still talking about them every day, talking about the moments that they are expecting to have when they grow up And the things that they're going to share with their dads when they meet them. And my youngest, of course, my youngest daughter who was born in the war. She makes our days, actually, like with her character, actually. This is what makes me continue.

23:25If everyone in Gaza thinking about the suffering, they will be died by heart attack. So coping, resilience is part of our life. If you look at the streets, you will find handicrafts. The wooden pallets, they are doing business with wooden pallets. If you look at the energy and solar system, they are doing business by providing charging mobiles and devices. The people in Gaza, they have high level of resilience. They can cope with this life. There is hope still. We have hopes. We have children and we will rebuild our houses again and our hopes. Mohamed and Feda staying optimistic in Gaza. Our thanks to them and to all of our guests this week for sharing their experiences.

24:22I'm James Reynolds. You've been listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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