Taraneh: Iran's defiant actress

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0:46Estás escuchando The Fifth Floor. The Fifth Floor, ¿reduyéndonos? ¿Vizim le calo? Tomía ectai The Fifth Floor, ¿verdad? Amí de sobat. This is The Fifth Floor, at the heart of global storytelling with BBC journalists from all around the world. I'm your host, Faranak Amidi.

1:14In November 2022, a well-known Iranian actress took a photo of herself in her living room and posted it on social media. Taraneh Ali Dosti was not wearing the headscarf that Iran's Islamic government requires all women to wear in public, and she was holding a sign bearing the slogan Woman Life Freedom. It has become not only a familiar rallying cry for protesters against Iran's Islamic regime, but also the name of the movement demanding social change. Last year, BBC Persian released a film about her, which quickly garnered millions of views. Pega Ahangarani is the director of the documentary and went about making the film remotely and in secret.

2:01I asked her why she chose Taraneh as a subject of her film.

2:17Firstly, I've been friends with Taranay for years, so I've always followed her professional journey. The stances she's taken throughout these years and at important times have always been interesting for me, and how she reacted to the women-life freedom protests was especially interesting. But regarding Taranay, in terms of fame, she's one of the icons of Iranian cinema, and she risked her career and all she's built in the past 20 to 30 years for what she believes in. I think the choice she made and her act of protest and how she still stood by it and is still paying the price for it was a very dramatic thing.

2:51An actor at her level who's been in Cannes Festival and the Oscars all of a sudden decides to turn her back on everything she's ever professionally achieved. I just think this is so dramatic and of course I would love to make a film about it but I didn't think she would accept it because she lives in Iran and we all know what the situation in Iran is like. When actors and artists show the smallest reaction to events they're faced with terrifying consequences But Taraneh was brave and she accepted my offer. And you mentioned that she lives in Iran and it's a very difficult situation that she's under.

3:26And that makes this interview that she's given actually more striking and important. But how did you go about making this documentary all the way from here?

3:47Yes, Taranay lives in Iran and needed to have a strategy about how we want to make this film. I am the director and I live outside of Iran, and it was difficult to find even a small team of two or three people who were willing to take the risk and go and film with her. This was a complicated process when, as a director, you are not eye-to-eye with your subject. It's difficult to direct the conversation and the dialogue. But I think the reason it was successful was the trust that Taranay had in me, and our 30-year friendship. We've been friends since we were 10, and all of this was behind what made the conversation so likeable, so real and relatable, even though it was done remotely.

4:25Then later, in the post-production and editing process, Taranay gave me full autonomy. I even asked her a few times during the process would she want to see the work, and she said, nope, I trust what you are doing will be good. And just like the other viewers, she only saw the final product. And of course, all of this was a heavy burden of responsibility for me, because my subject wasn't next to me to move forward together. The documentary was conversation-based completely and we weren't sitting together talking. We couldn't even talk on the phone properly because for sure her phone is tapped and for this project to come to fruition, no one could find out about it because if they did, they would stop it.

5:01This was all complicated. We did the film in complete secrecy and silence. Even most of my friends didn't know I was doing this.

5:12And as we are speaking, There are a new wave of protests happening in Iran, and this documentary came out almost a week before these uprisings started.

5:28Yes, the film came out on the 25th of December, and five or six days later, this new uprising started, which I find very interesting. I don't want to say that the current protest is related to the film, but maybe there's a small percentage of chance that it inspired bravery.

5:53Pegah Ahangaroni, film director and documentary filmmaker. I spoke to Sarbas Nazari from BBC Monitoring on Thursday, the 8th of January, about the reaction the film has caused among Iranians. So, Sarbas, let's talk about Tarane Ali Dosti as an actor. What films did she play and where did she stand in Iran cinema? If you take a look at her filmography, you will realize that the central roles that she has played, most of these characters and roles have something to do with the struggle of Iranian women throughout history. Whether it's a girl who is trying to actually fight the societal norms, whether it's a woman who stands up against the social norms, the religious restrictions in the society.

6:46All of these, actually, in these roles and characters, we find a pattern. And this is something that she has chosen, deliberately making a decision to play these roles, to reflect to the Iranian society and the outside world, the struggle that the Iranian women have been actually dealing with throughout history. Yeah, I remember her since she was like 15, 16. She's kind of like, she's grown up in front of us, in front of our eyes. So she's probably, if not the only, one of the very, very, very few openly feminist actors in Iran. What kind of social restrictions does she face? We do know for a fact that Iranian cinema and the entire cultural environment is under massive control by the theocratic establishment.

7:37And this has been going on for 47 years. And this control has always caused limitations and restrictions for all the actors, and especially the actresses, the female actors. So, for instance, the issue of hijab, the fact that you as a character in a movie have to carry this hijab all the way along in every single sequence of your films, even if when you are relaxing at your home, which sounds quite weird and unnatural. Coming out of the shower. Exactly. And this is something that these actresses have always been trying to fight off, but to no avail because of the Iranian art and cultural environment is under total control by a theocratic establishment.

8:26Yeah. And when in 2022, the Women Life Freedom protest started in Iran and women started taking off their hijab, a lot of people, public figures started supporting it. And Taranet wasn't the only actress that took off her hijab, was she? No, we have a long list of them. In fact, many of these women came out publicly releasing pictures, defying hijab, appearing in ceremonies without the headscarf. And this was a huge step forward because they were openly challenging a system which has been forcing upon them the way they should dress in public. A system which, in fact, controls not only your body, but the social space as well.

9:16It's the nature of this authoritarian regime. And it has always been trying to control every aspect of social life. And private life. Absolutely. And let's not forget that the issue of hijab is probably one of the last symbols of this theocracy. And it's trying to cling to it as a symbol of control, of state control over a society which is boiling beneath the surface, which is fighting off, which is struggling. But the system is using hijab as the final tool, as the final symbol to demonstrate that authority. You made a very good point that the hijab is about not only controlling female bodies, but also controlling social spaces.

10:02Because the moment that women started taking off their hijab, they started behaving differently than social spaces as well. You see women cartwheeling on pavements and dancing and stuff. It changed the way the public spaces look in Iran. And that shows how powerful it was. Absolutely. And imagine all these defiant actions are being done in public despite all the risks that they're facing. Getting beaten up on the streets, getting arrested. Penalized. Penalized, even being thrown into prison. So this is enormous for a society which has been under restrictions for four decades. And suddenly you see a flood of women on the streets defying this.

10:50And that's what gives context to what Tadon did as well. But when did Tadon's feminism come to public and grabbed public attention? Do you remember? To the majority of the Iranian people, that would probably go back to the heights of the Women's Life Freedom movement when she released that picture and held the sign of the Kurdish version of the same slogan, Women's Life Freedom. Would you say that it is fair to say that Ali Dosti's public profile grants her some sort of protection against what the regime can do to her? That's a tricky question. I mean, it has double effects. On the surface, many of the Iranian actors or celebrities might have some level of protection.

11:44But that protection is there as long as you don't cross the red lines. Once you cross the red lines, you are an enemy of the state. And that is exactly what the Islamic Republic imposed on Ali Dosti. And hijab is one of these red lines? Exactly, yes. Because most of the other actresses who defined hijab, they have been banned from acting since then. And I would say probably that what Ali Dustiz is saying in this documentary is a reflection of this unfinished job with the Women's Life Freedom Movement. She's coming out suddenly after two or three years telling the authorities that despite all the executions and the imprisonment of the Iranian youth, we are still there.

12:33This job is not finished and there is a revolution in the making. And interestingly enough, she does not express any regret. No. And that's exactly what the authoritarian regime wants from you, I mean, to express regret. That refusal to show any regret is something that, in fact, unsettled the Iranian hardliners, because Taraneh, in fact, shattered the binary vision of the Islamic Republic, The binary vision that divides the society into its friends and its foes. And she's out there without any slogans. She's just expressing some moral clarity. And this is what makes the documentary very striking.

13:21She's not just expressing a series of slogans and empty words. She's telling us that she's lived this struggle. She has lived this suffering, but she's still strong. She's there and she's there to challenge the ruling establishment. And Sarbas, in the documentary, she does talk about what happened to her after she posted that picture in her living room. She was arrested. They came to her home. They arrested her and took her and interrogated her. Tell us about some of the details she shared. Yeah, pretty interesting details there because I don't think anybody except for her close friends would have known about these.

14:07The moment she tries to collect herself when they arrest her, all the mistreatment that she faces during the process of the arrest and in solitary confinement. What is more interesting is the way she communicates with the adjacent cells, and she whispers through the walls, telling them that I am Taran Ali Dosti, and they're surprised. It sounds unbelievable to them. and after she somehow proves her identity to them, they start singing some songs. Actually, one particular song which was very popular at the time, at the time of the unrest, and they sing it together. In the place of my heart, I will leave the world I will leave the world I will leave the world I will leave the world And this affinity that occurs despite the walls is pretty striking and symbolic.

15:10It signifies the fact that even if the Islamic Republic puts barriers between the people, this connection is still strong because the connection is not physical. It's an emotional bond. It's about a set of beliefs that bonds these people together. In 2023, when Tarana was released, she disappeared from the public view. And then later we found out that she was struggling with this very, very terrible autoimmune disease. It attacked her skin. She looked like she had burns. She lost her hair. Her whole face changed. and then she comes out with this documentary that BBC Persian and Pegah Ahangarani made and it went boom.

16:07Everybody's talking about this film. Do you have an estimate of how many people watched it? It's really hard but last time I checked on one single account of Instagram, the BBC Persian account, It was beyond 26, 27 million views on that specific platform. But many versions, shorter versions, are on YouTube, are on Twitter, everywhere. So millions of views, and it is still continuing. Why do you think it caused such a stir and such a reaction? The fact that most people were kept in the dark about what exactly she is doing under the current circumstances, whether she's still active, whether she will come back to cinema.

16:53There was a plethora of questions about her circumstances. That was one important factor contributing to the massive number of views and popularity of the documentary. But more important than all of these is the defiance that she's showing in the documentary, coming out after two, three years and expressing no regret again and challenging the very basic and fundamental principles of the Islamic Revolution, the theocracy, which has been controlling everyone's lives. So that's what probably has struck most of the viewers, that this movement, the Women's Life Freedom Movement, is still there, is still strong, and has the potential to shake the very foundations of the Islamic.

17:47And as we are speaking, a new wave of protests is sweeping across Iran. Almost all of the provinces in Iran are seeing some sort of protest happening. And these protests started probably five, six days after this documentary was released. Would you say that what is happening today on the streets of Iran kind of confirms what Tarun was saying in the documentary that this is not over? Absolutely. There's no doubt about that. And, you know, these protests were triggered by economic hardship. the inflation which is more than 50 percent and the price of food is rising on a daily basis. That's probably the starting point.

18:39But let's not forget that this society has been living with trauma for four, five decades. And all the traumatic experiences, all the pent-up grievances which have piled up over the years. And these crises have never been fully addressed by the Islamic Republic. They've just piled up. So we see this sudden burst of anger across the Iranian street. One aspect of this is absolutely economic. The other is about women's rights, about human rights, about the rights of the ethnic communities. All of these are combined together and we see the expression on the street. People are venting their anger. Republic, it's failure to provide them with a dignified life.

19:30People are fighting for their dignity. That's what you can hear from the protesters these days. And they're thirsty for change. And how this change is going to be materialized, that's something that we should observe and expect in the coming days or weeks or months. Thank you so much, Serbast. Serbast Nazari from BBC Monitoring. You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service. This is The Fifth Floor, and I'm Farina Kamidi.

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20:48At the end of November last year, Cyclone Sinyar struck Sumatra Island in Indonesia, causing widespread environmental devastation and loss of human life. Dems' rainforests in the Batang Toru region of North Sumatra didn't escape the storm, And they happen to be home to the Tapanuli orangutans. One of the three known species of orangutan, Tapanuli orangutans were only identified as a distinct species in 2017. And until November, there were just 800 of them thought to be living in the wild. It now appears that Batang Toru's Tapanuli orangutans have been devastated by this event. World Service Environment Correspondent Navin Singh Kharka is with me to talk about this in more detail.

21:38So tell us, local conservationists aren't hearing orangutans calling in the forests. And this silence is not good news, is it? When I was asking with people in that area, they said to me that they used to see many of them swinging by the trees, coming down to rivers. But then now there's nothing. They see nothing. They hear nothing. So that eerie silence. And that is why we had to find out. We had to investigate what happened to those animals. And Evan, how do usually orangutans cope with storms and cyclones and stuff like that? When I was asking this question to the locals, some of them were telling me that, oh, don't worry about the animals.

22:29You know, they have the instinct. They're not like people. They sense the danger coming and then they go away. But, you know, on issues like this, we have to be a bit careful about the science. So when I was checking with scientists, the experts, what they told me was a bit different picture. Orangotans don't, you know, just go away. They wait for the rains to stop. So what they do is they, you know, break the twigs and branches and make kind of umbrella out of it. And then hold that in off their head to protect themselves from the rain. And hoping that the rain would stop and then they would go and make their bed.

23:07You know, orangutans make their bed every day in different trees using twigs and, again, branches and all that. So they were hoping to do that. But in this case, what happened was the rains didn't stop. The rain continued and continued. And then came this massive landslide that took away the entire forest town. And all of this also devastated the network of research centers which collect data and information about wildlife and orangutans. What's the impact of that? Yes. So, you know, this is like, for example, Katambe Research Center, which is the world's biggest first orangutan research center in Aceh.

23:53They were telling me that this is completely destroyed. And many other research centers were also damaged, not as bad as this one. But what they tell me is it's a serious setback in that they've lost so many orangutans. And then, of course, the resources. Number one, the figure that they're giving me now is they have kind of have been updating the figures. and now they're estimating, it's a conservative estimate, up to 58 orangutans might have died or at least impacted. That's a significant number out of 800. Yes, so 11%. Again, like, why is it significant? Because, again, you know, these primate experts tell me that the reproduction rate of these species is quite slow.

24:41And what's the wider picture? What is the impact of all of this on the people who live in North Sumatra? As you know, this is a massive, massive humanitarian crisis. Hundreds of people have died. And those who survived, even now, when I contact them, they show me pictures of how people are barely surviving, you know, no drinking water, no food. And so then, you know, for some, this might be a non-issue because they think that it's more about people now. Of course it is. But I also came across many people who say that, you know, it's a huge setback for their own good. Because it's not only the orangutans that have gone in this case, the entire habitat.

25:27You know, so this habitat, of course, there must be a reason why they were concentrated in that place. It has that value. So that ecosystem value is gone. Let's not forget, this is a biodiversity hotspot. This is the place where you have all this endangered species like not only orangutans, but Sumateran tigers, Sumateran rhinos, even elephants. We saw a carcass of elephant being swept by a river. The real assessment is yet to happen how many other animals have died. But the fear is, in the wake of climate change, there will be more and more of these extreme weather events. What happens to these animals and plants and habitats?

26:06That's the big question. And Nevin, Indonesia is such a rich country when it comes to biodiversity, as you also mentioned. How are conservation needs and human priorities balanced? Are they seen as related to each other or as competition? So again, you know, it depends who you're asking. If you're asking this to someone who has a job in the palm plantation or in the projects that involves deforestation, they would argue that this is, of course, about their bread and butter, their family and so on and so forth. But I think a significant chunk of the population has also begun to realize that it is also about their own sustainability.

26:52So that is why people do value the ecosystems, particularly in context of disasters. Natural systems like forests, you know, all this, they work as barriers. So people do realize that, you know, it is for their own good and they need to protect them. Navin Singh Katka, BBC World Services Environment Correspondent. Thanks to everyone who took part in today's program. And if you want to let us know what you think about the show or you have questions for our amazing correspondents, send an email to the5thfloor at bbc.co.uk. That's the5thfloor, all one word, at bbc.co.uk.