The lord and dance: Michael Flatley

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0:40I can't explain it. There was something in the air that night. There was just something in the air that night. And it was the first night ever that I was allowed to use my arms and my facial expression and my body and my acting and my passion. But it was like you were bursting and ready to release this new act into the world. I'm telling you, Callum, I felt like a loaded gun. I was so, you know, wound up and ready to go. This was my chance.

1:10This is the moment Irish dancer Michael Flatley's life changed forever. He was performing live in front of 200 million people during the Eurovision Song Contest. showcasing a style of Irish dancing the world had never seen before. And it made Michael Flatley a global superstar. The next guest is the biggest selling dance star. The last spectacle, Lord of the Dance, Michael Flatley. The show Riverdance became a global phenomenon and Michael Flatley was the star dancer. No legendary Michael Flatley. But show business is ruthless, and almost as quickly as he had begun, Michael Flatley was out of Riverdance.

1:59And my posters are 100 feet tall with my picture on it, and I got fired the night before, and I am out of the show. But after a bold comeback, he went on to achieve even greater success with his own show, Lord of the Dance. His performances have been seen by more than 65 million people worldwide. He has toured over 60 countries and played thousands of sold-out shows. And at one point, he became one of the highest-earning performers in the world. I drank it up. I ate it up. I enjoyed every glass of wine, every kiss, every seat on the private jet. I looked around and said, yes, yes, yes. I never gave in.

2:51But in recent years, life has handed him yet another challenge I just felt so all alone And I was quickly reminded that I came into this world alone And that I'll leave this world alone But throughout all of this Michael says it is his Catholic faith that has sustained him Colm, I wake up in the morning and I surrender my day to the Lord today, tomorrow and every day for the rest of my life.

3:23You're listening to Heart and Soul from the documentary on the BBC World Service. I'm Colm Flynn and I've come to the small city-state of Monaco in the south of France, one of the wealthiest places in the world. Outside, multi-million dollar yachts line the harbour and Rolls-Royce cars glide by. This is a far cry from the life that Michael once lived, growing up in the south of Chicago. My parents were Irish immigrants, so they worked seven days a week, but always we took the time off for Mass. And even when we were, oh, just tiny little fellas, we had to wear a suit and tie and have our hair perfect.

4:05Did you believe as a young person growing up was faith important to you personally, or was it just something that you did because your parents told you? No, 100%. I believed in God. And even at the age of four, I went to visit my grandmother in Drana St. Mullins, County, Carlo. And she had incredible faith. And she would pray for what seemed like hours. She would remember every saint and every person in her prayers. And she would take me for walks down the lane and explain to me our faith in Christ and what could happen with belief. And that stayed with me my whole life. And your dad was a construction worker.

4:52Yes. You were working with him. Yes. That was difficult work, wasn't it? Yes, absolutely. in Chicago in those bitter cold Chicago winters as a teenager and even after I grew up swinging a sledgehammer and it gave me a great physique and it taught me hard work and discipline and digging foundations and trenches. Sometimes we had to use the pick to get through the first few inches of the earth because it was frozen. But while I was doing that in my heart, in my mind, I was on stage at Madison Square Garden in New York or on stage at the Sydney Opera House. I had these dreams, never-ending dreams and rhythms going through my head, being a dancer.

5:45That was my dream and it got me through those sometimes very arduous days. And did you think, it's one thing to dream, but did you think then, okay, but this is my reality. How's a boy like me from the south of Chicago digging the ditches here and pulling out the dirt? I'm never going to end up on the stage anywhere. Yeah, again, I did believe in my heart that someday it would happen. And I refused to let go of that dream. I refused to believe that it couldn't happen. Now I can promise you, Colm, my best friends, my family, even my parents, as the years went by, kept saying to me, Michael, it's time to give up on this dream.

6:30It's time to realize the truth of where we are in life. We have to be realistic about life, and you need to start thinking about business and about other things. And, of course, they weren't wrong. But my resolve was steadfast, and my belief was like iron. And I kept, even after work, and my friends would be heading into the pub, I would head into that broken-down dance studio and keep the legs going and keep the dream going and believe. And the more I visualized, the more sure I was that someday, somehow God would send me the opportunity. But you're talking about it, Michael, as if it was a spiritual calling, almost.

7:11Well, it is. Why did he put that there, Colm? Of course it is. It's in my heart. I didn't put it there. You know, it comes from our Lord. It comes from God. It comes directly from God. It was that determination and faith in God that Michael says pushed him ahead. He practiced and practiced improving all the time, and at age 17 became the first American to win the World Irish Dancing Championships. Then he began to tour with a well-known Irish band called the Chieftains, who noticed that Michael had an energy that was different and a style of Irish dancing that was more dynamic. And one day, an Irish TV producer spotted what Michael was doing, and they happened to be working on the 1994 Eurovision Song Contest.

8:04And so they called Michael. Being in America, had you heard of the Eurovision before? I didn't have. You didn't even? I had no idea, but... You didn't know how big it was? No, but there was a few quid in it. So you were said, I'm there. and I was going to be able to dance. I said to them, listen, I'll have to check my diary. Yes, I'll be there. I'll do it. What date is it? What was it like that night? Do you remember the feeling in the air, the atmosphere and the point? Yeah, I mean, listen, the point is such an iconic venue, isn't it, Colm? I was so, you know, wound up and ready to go. But finally now I had a television audience.

8:42Finally now there was an opportunity for me to be able to prove that all of my years of believing, of swinging that sledgehammer, this was my chance. Is it true that just before you went and stood out on stage in front of that TV audience of 200 million, someone said, Michael, please keep the hands by the side. Don't flare them all over the place. You're going to make a fool of us. You've done your research, Colm. Well done, you. Yes, it's true. They tried to tell me, no, do not move your arms around. We're getting too many calls from the purists, and we don't want to rock the boat here, so whatever happens, do not go waving your arms around.

9:24And I told them, listen, you hired me for the way I dance. You hired me because I dance this way. I'm not going to change now. This was my chance column. In many ways, that's why God gave me the chance. Even at 35 years old, that's the age I was when I flew on the stage that night but the proudest word of my life is i said no and i went flying on that stage and the next morning we were headlines all over europe and of course some of the people that had told me not to are the ones that all oh geez it was all my idea we told michael to do that don't you know just before we went down we said michael put the arms up try that try something different that was my idea now Seamus I'm telling you.

10:10It's a beautiful moment I heard you mention before that after the crowd erupted in the point when you finished Riverdance you and the troupe on stage people spellbound across the continent watching on television you went backstage you saw your mother there in tears and you blessed yourself. That's true yes absolutely. Why did you do that? Why would I not do that Colum? God was the reason this all happened. I mean hang on a second And some guy from Chicago that does the jig construction worker that's a boxer all of a sudden gets a chance to dance in front of the whole European world and gets a standing ovation for 10 minutes.

10:50And my mother is in the hallway walking to the dressing room in the dark crying. The woman who loved me more than anything loved me so much that she told me, please, it's time to give up that dream now and get a job. that woman who loved me that much was there. There is a God. Wow. There is a God. Wow. Yes. I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the boardroom, the newsroom, and the trading floor. That's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive. But even though I've got questions, join me, Merrin's upset web, every week for my show, Merrin Talks Money, from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists and experts about how markets really work.

11:36And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you. Follow Maren Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.

11:48Was that the moment your life changed forever? Absolutely, yes. And I had the most fabulous team of dancers. I mean, they were just the greatest and it broke my heart then when I finally when I had to leave the show because I just loved them all. Riverdance was such a cultural phenomenon. Yes. In those days it was rock and roll artists and pop stars who were filling stadiums and auditoriums and now people were paying to go see a dancer. Yes. Not a singer. Yes. But a dancer. Well it was It's hard. I don't mind telling you. When it was over and we got all this press, of course, I'm such a driven man.

12:32And I went barging into the offices of the producer saying, we have to make a show out of this because I had it all here. I'd spent all these years on the work site every day dreaming. In my head it was boom, boom, boom, boom. Just this rhythm going through my head. I had all these dance numbers there. And for the longest time they would not, don't be ridiculous. Nobody's going to pay to see an hour or two of this. Who's going to pay? There's no market for it. Lightning doesn't strike twice. Yeah, and I kept saying, you know, please, I've danced all over the world with the chieftains, from China to Canada, Mexico, America.

13:18I've seen how the people stand up. Imagine if I can put a row of those 30 dancers behind me and make a show of it. And, you know, finally they capitulated. And they said, well, maybe we can do one little theater. I said, no, you've got to go back to the scene of the crime. They know it. There's an association there. We have to go there. and next thing it took off like a rocket. Sadly then I had to leave the show. They decided they didn't want a star in the show and so I had to again go back to my faith and my belief. In 1995, the night before the full-length show was due to premiere in London, Michael and the producers of the show were still arguing over his contract and then suddenly...

14:08Welcome back. Now it's the big showbiz news of the day with just hours to go before the opening night of Riverdance. The show's star, Michael Flatley, is out. Michael Flatley was now out of Riverdance and he sat alone in his London apartment the night before the big show. Despite suggestions it was going to be virtually impossible to replace Michael Flatley, the impossible has been achieved and tonight he's standing... I'm on top of the world. And then... And then it's going to open for the second time in London. And my posters are 100 feet tall with my picture on it. And I get fired the night before and the posters come down and I am out of the show.

14:50Now I'm sort of embarrassed to... Even leave the house? Yeah, tough old times. But, you know, you've got to believe in yourself. and I remember my father's call. My father called me to check the night before that night to talk to me, and it was a devastating call. My father was a slag old man, big, strong guy, and he was the one. It really hurt me having to tell him because I know that he was so proud that this had happened. He'd be ashamed and embarrassed. Yes, yes, and he's such a kind man, and I had to explain it. And he doesn't talk a lot. My father, he didn't, God rest his soul. But, you know, he kept saying, Michael, you created Riverdance.

15:39You invented it. Go off and build another one. Let them keep the money and take all the credit. Let them lie. Let them say, let them do whatever they want. Michael, get up and do another one. That's the only way to prove to the world. And, of course, then I hit that wall column where, as you said, lightning doesn't strike twice. There's nobody who's, there's not room for two shows. And my friends tell me, no, go back and get your job back. Take way less money. Do whatever they want. And I couldn't do that. But again, it's like in C.S. Lewis. I had to believe what I was feeling in my heart. Did you pray at that time?

16:17Did you turn to your faith? Of course. Yes. Yes. You ask God for guidance or for what to do next? Yes. My favorite habit in life is to thank God every time something happens. To thank God. Even at your darkest time when you've lost everything? It was hard. I don't mind telling you, but I kept saying, God, I know you have a path for me. I know you have a path for me. I don't mind telling you. I went down to France and I went on a bit of a bender there for about a week or ten days. Did you say a bender? You lost the head a bit? or you went for drinking? Yeah. I just had to get away from Ireland and the Irish and the English press and the tabloids and I was just being cut to ribbons.

17:05I couldn't face into my local restaurants or pubs or I just couldn't face anybody.

17:15After a period of feeling sorry for himself and feeling ashamed, he picked himself up, rounded up a team and created a new show. called Lord of the Dance. And despite people telling him that there wasn't enough room for two big Irish dance shows, it was a smash hit.

17:42I remember reading, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you were earning something like£1.6 million a week. Yes. A week. I'm very blessed. Your feet were insured for how much? 50 million. 50 million, the feet were insured. Yeah. How does that change you as a person? When you grew up poor in the south of Chicago, working with your dad, digging ditches, and all of a sudden you're bringing in 1.6 million a week. Well, you have to understand now I've been grounded. God gave me a gift. God gave me the gift of humility there. when I was at my height in Riverdance I was living in an ecstasy night after night I was the star of the show and it was the greatest fun you could ever have and then I'm in Diggs Lane renting a cheap little place can't afford anything and the group of new dancers all world champions expecting a paycheck every Friday and every Thursday I'm pulling my hair out.

18:50How in the world am I going to pay them? And going in the morning into Diggs Lane and the girl and I legging it up the stairs and her saying, Mr. Flatley, this week's rent, Mr. Flatley, excuse me. And just trying to go by and then I get home to my little room and the note on the door eviction and me lying flat on the carpet But outside of that room, thinking, please, just let me get a night's sleep here, Lord. Please, I'll find a way tomorrow and all of these things. So you really lost it all, Michael. Oh, man, yeah. And so when I finally did get to the top, it wasn't like, ha, I'm Jack the Ladd.

19:32It was like, thank you, God. Thank you, God, for what I have. Did I enjoy? Did I what? Did I what? Because it must be hard to stay grounded. no matter your background and the great family upbringing and losing it all but when you get that level of success and wealth and you had the houses in different parts of the world the money's coming in and you're smiling now as i say that was it hard can you blame me i can't blame you but did you find it difficult to stay grounded and to keep that foundation in god and well let's discuss that. That's a great question, Colin. We're all human. We have to recognize that first.

20:16I drank it up. I ate it up. I enjoyed every second. I enjoyed every glass of wine, every kiss, every race in the car, every seat on the private jet, every hotel suite, every single thing. I looked around and said, yes, yes, yes, I never gave in. Gallim, if I had told you, 1994, I was absolutely broke. Broke. But it had created in my mind something that the world had never seen. And it proved to be right. By 1997, I did the Oscars. By the end of 1997, I outsold all the big rock bands in the world. Was it easy to hang on to your faith in those days? Oh God, yes, especially, yes. Because, you know, we hear people say, the famous saying, there are no atheists in the trenches.

21:10When the going is bad, everyone believes in God. Yes. And it's easy to call out to God for help. Yes. But when Michael Flatley is flying around the world in a private jet, and there's a hotel suite, the money's flying in. Yes. Lord of the dance. You take on the role of Lord, maybe yourself, and who needs God? The going's great. Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it. But you have to understand, God blessed me in the beginning because I had a hard upbringing. God taught me the value of a pound. God taught me the value of a hard work and discipline. If you look back even at photographs of any of the homes that I had, you will always see a crucifix in the homes everywhere.

21:53You will also see those beautiful pictures of the sacred heart because I wouldn't have them without that. I wouldn't have them. And there's a time. There was a long time in my life, even when you have their shows, it doesn't eradicate problems or difficulties. They're just different now.

22:212023. You receive this devastating news. Is it a doctor or who tells you, Michael, you have aggressive cancer. Yes. What did they say to you? And it was the second time I had cancer. The first one was skin cancer. Yes, a melanoma. They had to take several inches out of that side of my face. It was a shock. Yeah, it was terrible. What type of cancer was it? I'd rather not say, because it doesn't matter what type of cancer. Cancer is a brutal, brutal disease. And I remember they did the test, sitting down with the doctor. He analyzed everything, and he said, well, we can start on chemo and hope for the best, or we could just go in and operate.

23:11But if we do that at the stage you're at right now and the speed it's moving, you'd have to come in and do it immediately. Wow. And so I had literally 10 seconds to say, yes, let's go in. Let's just do it, which we did. I've heard you talk before, powerfully, Michael, about lying on that hospital trolley. Yes. You're down on your back looking up as they're wheeling you in for the surgery. What's going through your mind at that stage? Well, first question was, how did I get here? How did this happen? You know, I don't know if you've ever been through anything like this, but you're lying on that.

23:55white trolley in a white-walled corridor with a white ceiling, and it's always, for some reason, freezing cold in those bloody places. I just felt so all alone, and I was quickly reminded that I came into this world alone, and that I'll leave this world alone, but not because God was with me when I got here. God has been with me every day since, and God will make the decision now. And if you choose to take me, Lord, I have no regrets. I have no regrets. You can take me. I remember, I don't think I ever told anybody this, but I said to the two nurses there, that saying that we used to say as kids, now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep, and if I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.

24:48And they held my hands. what was in my head was my wife and my son what was in my head was my immediate family my siblings what was in my head was have I made them proud have I done enough for my family and have I done enough of the things that I said I would do that I promised me the little boy inside in me the little boy that was there and still in there inside have I done enough that's my biggest fear column that I'll be lying on my deathbed saying to myself I wish I'd have just tried that I wish I'd have just tried it well that'll never happen to me isn't it funny how a moment ago you were talking about the hotel suites and the private jets and the great cars.

25:48Yeah. But at that moment when you were facing death in a very real way, Yeah. did you think of those cars? Not once. Not once. Nothing. No. Nothing. Not angry at God in any way? Never. He makes all the decisions. When God rings the bell, I will gladly answer. You didn't think, God, come on, I worked hard and I've always kept the faith. No. In the good times and the bad times, now here I am I'm lying in this trolley with cancer. Why do I deserve this? Colm, I wake up in the morning and I surrender my day to the Lord. You can't say, oh, accept this one. You can't do that. You know, if you believe and you have faith, you have to have ultimate faith.

26:35That attitude, I like it. You take the good and you take the bad as well. Damn straight. All part of living. How was your health today? How are you feeling? I feel great. I'm still here.

26:56what's santa bringing michael flatley this christmas oh this interview this was it i just had my prezzi hey it was great chatting to you michael flatley happy christmas merry christmas thank you so much and god bless you and all of the people that are listening and watching You've been listening to an interview with Irish dancer Michael Flatley here on Heart and Soul on the BBC World Service The executive producer was Rajiv Gupta and from me, Colm Flynn, thanks for listening and Happy Christmas