The Vatican's AI battle

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1:14This is the documentary from the BBC World Service. I'm Isabel Cockrell. In Heart and Soul, we meet Vatican priest and AI researcher Father Michael Baggett as he contemplates what a godlike artificial intelligence might mean for humanity.

1:34It's May 2025 in Vatican City in the heart of Rome. The sun is hanging low in the sky over St Peter's Square. A giant roar goes up as white smoke rises from the famous chimney, signalling the election of a new Pope.

1:57As bells ring out across the city, those still making their way to the square start to run. Tourists, pilgrims, Benedictine monks with their robes billowing in the breeze. Among the runners, in his clerical collar and black suit, is 41-year-old Father Michael Baggett. When I received the app notification that the Pope was elected, I was already on my way over to the square to wait to hear about the results of the next vote. And I started to run, and some of the guards yelled out to me, Stop running! Stop running! Only the priests and sisters can run! Stop running! Father Michael is a priest, so he keeps running until he finds himself in prime position for a moment, he says, that eclipses even seeing Taylor Swift's Eras Tour live.

2:50There was such an electric excitement. I had a clear view of the Pope as he came out and immediately there was this sense of peace. Father Michael never expected to be here at the Vatican when he was younger. He was born in Texas to lapsed Catholic parents and grew up agnostic. One day, he typed catholic.com into an internet browser, looking for answers. What he found eventually brought him here, watching the new Pope emerge onto the balcony, taking as his papal name, Leo XIV. He explained to the world that he wanted to connect himself to Leo XIII, the Pope who led the Church through the first industrial revolution.

3:37And Pope Leo XIV said, I am leading the Church now in this new industrial revolution and this AI revolution. It was a huge moment for Father Michael. I was absolutely thrilled because I've been working in these areas of AI ethics for years and he's exceeded our expectations. For the BBC World Service, this is the documentary. I'm Isabel Cockrell and for this episode of Heart and Soul, we're in Rome to uncover how the Vatican is mounting a formidable response to the growing power of Silicon Valley. Well, this is the first semester I'm giving this particular course there. Father Michael Baggett teaches courses on AI and ethics at two Vatican-affiliated universities in Rome.

4:25We're in a taxi with him on our way to one of his lectures. He's interested in the belief systems of Silicon Valley, where tech leaders talk of living forever, uploading our minds to the cloud, or rewiring our brains to make all human knowledge instantly accessible. In the tech world's imagined future utopia, all our problems are solved, and no one will need to work thanks to a godlike, super-intelligent AI that runs and rules everything. This is not just the material of science fiction. These are the ideas that are being actively explored by major figures, whether in Silicon Valley or in other key areas of technological development.

5:09As we think about the promise of a world without work, our taxi driver wends his way expertly through Rome's chaotic back streets. And we get talking about a future where jobs like the drivers are replaced by AI. Have you ever ridden in a driverless car? Very briefly, but not for an extended period of time yet. Where were you? Actually in the San Francisco area.

5:37The taxi driver has opinions. There's no way driverless cars could operate in Rome's traffic, he says. And anyway, the ones in San Francisco go much too slowly.

5:51This is Father Michael now. He's saying that we lose something else when we get rid of taxi drivers and rely on technology to do everything for us. We lose those small human interactions that add joy and connection to our day.

6:14Isobel Cockerell:Father Michael's AI lectures in the spectacular cloisters of the angelicum generally start with a prayer. The class is an international mix. Young priests, nuns and monks. And lay students too. So Jean-Paul II says whenever we're looking at technology in the workplace, and now when we're looking at AI in the workplace... With his students, Father Michael continues the conversation we started in the taxi, asking what the world will look like if AI takes over everything from our jobs to our daily routines. Is this helping or hindering flourishing for the individual and for the community? Is it augmenting, assisting, aiding, or is it replacing?

7:04Father Michael asks his students, what is the purpose of this technology and who benefits? It's the sort of question that's missing from a lot of the public debate around AI.

7:24The ancient city of Rome might seem like an unlikely place for discussions on the latest tech developments, but in recent years it's become a hub for some of the most forward-thinking conversations about AI. As well as funding priests like Father Michael to study and teach courses on artificial intelligence. The Catholic Church hosts AI conferences, debates and gatherings here almost every month. Dear brothers and sisters, I want to thank all of you for being here today, for your interest. In May 2026, the Vatican made its strongest intervention yet in the debate around artificial intelligence in the form of Pope Leo's first encyclical, a 42 ,000-word open letter, discussing everything from the technology's impact on labour and human dignity, to the use of autonomous weapons in warfare.

8:17At the encyclical's launch, Pope Leo told the world that the most destructive elements of AI must be kept in check. Artificial intelligence needs to be disarmed. The word is strong, I know, but deliberately chosen because this moment needs words capable of attracting attention, awakening consciences, and indicating paths forward for humanity. Sitting alongside the Pope, as the document was presented to the public, was Christopher Ola, the young, bespectacled co-founder of one of the world's largest AI companies, Anthropic. Some might believe that matters of AI are best handled by computer scientists like myself.

9:04They are mistaken. The questions raised by AI are bigger than the AI research community, not just in their implications, but also in their nature. Christopher Ola's presence at the event surprised some observers, who said this open courtship between an immensely powerful tech company and the institution of the Vatican undermined the Pope's statement that AI must serve all of humanity and not concentrate power. I asked Father Michael about this. It might not have meant to be a stamp of approval, but it feels like a stamp of approval from the Vatican. I think the choice was motivated by a long history of engagement.

9:45And I would hope that Chris's role in the presentation of the encyclical would also inspire other tech companies to engage in these sorts of conversations where agreement and disagreement can be hashed out, sometimes publicly and then sometimes behind closed doors.

10:08Isobel Cockerell:Behind those closed doors, the relationship between the Vatican and the tech leaders of Silicon Valley goes back at least a decade. I would say at the beginning we had a lot of learning to do to understand the technology and what was happening with the technology. Bishop Paul Tai has been involved in high-level meetings between technologists and the Vatican's inner circle since 2016, six years before the launch of ChatGPT. The first meeting was really a group of people, senior people from within the valley, who said, look, there have been a number of false stones in the area of AI, but we're convinced that there's something really beginning to move at this stage.

10:45And we think you should be thinking about it in the church.

10:48Isobel Cockerell:Those secluded meetings in a Dominican convent just behind the Pantheon continued each year. Discussions ranged from the potential loss of jobs to the question of what AI is for and how it might disrupt society. I don't think we're deliberately setting out to challenge the so-called false gods of Silicon Valley. I think what we're trying to do there is ask the real question of what is it to be human? What is it that makes life worthwhile and what gives it value? There's a risk that these backroom discussions between the church and the tech world merely reinforce the power of two already powerful institutions and confine decisions that affect billions of people to a very small group.

11:31Isobel Cockerell:But Bishop Tai says the church is trying to broaden rather than narrow the conversation around tech. This cannot be allowed to be developed by a small group of people who do have a fundamental mastery of the technology, but who don't have any particularly great insights into the future of humanity. So how do we build a coalition of people who are willing to ensure there's a level playing pitch for everybody? We have survived the streets. This particular plateau is very difficult to navigate. We're back with Father Michael, the AI lecturer and Taylor Swift fan. We're heading with him to the Chiesa del Gesù, the Jesuits' flagship church.

12:12It's an astonishing example of Baroque architecture, a vast cavernous space dripping with gilded sculptures, paintings and a huge frescoed ceiling.

12:31Every day at exactly 5.30pm, a congregation gathers to watch a 17th century piece of technology in action. It's called the Baroque Machine. After an intense build-up with a light show and music, a huge painting in the altar starts to move, apparently all on its own. As it descends into a hidden compartment, it reveals a gold and silver statue. To worshippers of centuries ago, it might have seemed magical, perhaps even the work of God, but this was the work of engineers. A system of pulleys is moving the painting. It's a really great example of the ingenuity of the church and the church's desire to employ these different technological developments to transmit the faith.

13:23Isobel Cockerell:my theory about this machine is there's a danger right with seeing something this spectacular seeing this machine thinking it's a higher power that's moving it and same with AI right when you talk to chat dbt there's a danger in thinking this thing has higher power this thing could be god and I wonder what you think of that comparison yeah I think that is an interesting comparison because now you have systems that apparently know all of human history and could give the impression of a kind of omniscience. They could give the impression of omnipotence. They could give the impression of omnibenevolence.

14:06So we're dealing with these systems that have qualities that in the past were associated with the gods.

14:23This is the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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15:31Isobel Cockerell:In Silicon Valley, tech leaders often appear in awe of AI. They describe it as a kind of higher power that has the potential to magically fix all the most painful elements of the human condition. Father Michael Baggett has been watching closely. The idea of defeating, sickness, suffering, ignorance, uncertainty, aging, death, those are certainly quasi-religious, almost messianic claims that can seem like a sort of alternative to the promises of traditional religions. Sam Altman from OpenAI has talked about creating a magic intelligence in the sky. Elon Musk has suggested his data centres could create a digital god.

16:19Isobel Cockerell:Bill Gates, the co-founder of Microsoft, has suggested that if AI solves everything, we will need a new religion or a new philosophy to stay connected. But of all the AI builders who use this sort of religious language, It's tech entrepreneur Brian Johnson who spells it out most explicitly. He spoke to us from his home in California. The narrative is God created us. The irony would be that God didn't create us, but we actually create God. Brian Johnson argues that in attempting to build artificial superintelligence, man is in effect trying to create a new God. What are the characteristics of God?

17:00What can God do? if you just list out those characteristics, they mirror AI almost identically. AI will become omnipotent, omniscient, like it has all the characteristics. So it's like if you just map it out, it is God in form.

17:17Isobel Cockerell:Brian Johnson achieved success with an electronic payment startup that was bought by PayPal. But these days, he's best known as Silicon Valley's most prominent anti-aging guru. He's tried everything from taking more than 100 dietary supplements a day to receiving infusions of his son's blood plasma. His goal is to live forever, to override the basic fact of human mortality, and to use AI to help him do it. In any version of the future, the human race is in serious trouble without AI. If we didn't have AI, we're all guaranteed to die. And I don't know what it's like to be dead, but like I'm imagining, it's boring.

18:00I am quite intrigued with the figure of Brian Johnson. Back in Rome, Father Michael Baggett has been watching Brian Johnson's progress with interest. I also belong to a religion that believes in eternal life, but we do not have a blueprint to prevent death. Rather than trying to live forever, Father Michael says, we should value the fact that yes, one day we are all going to die and we should use that to motivate us. I want people to take the time and effort to think seriously about how the reality of our mortality challenges us to make really important decisions about how to serve other people in that limited amount of time.

18:43that we have.

18:44Isobel Cockerell:The idea that we can use technology to extend our natural lives is part of a much bigger movement gripping the tech world. The movement is called transhumanism, and Father Michael is one of the Vatican's experts on the subject. So transhumanism is basically the intellectual and cultural movement to use the emerging technologies to radically enhance people at the physical level, the cognitive level, to improve their mood, to extend their lifespan, their healthspan, and to even improve them morally. Followers of transhumanism, and there are many in Silicon Valley, dream of a future where humans can connect their brains with artificial intelligence and merge their bodies with machines to create new, perfected, post-human beings that are part human, part robot.

19:41Isobel Cockerell:On the one hand, says Father Michael, it's exciting to think about how tech will usher in amazing medical breakthroughs. But there's a darker side to this way of thinking. I think there can be a tendency to seek out that next improved, enhanced generation while neglecting the weak, the frail, the vulnerable, the sick, the suffering of this present generation to maybe even sacrifice particular humans now for the sake of a better humanity in the future. Listening to Father Michael talk, it strikes me there's a real danger in the pursuit of creating a super race of perfected humans. It feels uncomfortably close to eugenics.

20:25I think there's a real risk that will turn to this kind of neo-eugenic movement. I don't think that we're at all determined to do that. I think the moral voice of the global church is strong. And it's a voice that can stand up against forces of mass surveillance, of lethal autonomous weapons, of neo-eugenic trends. And after condemning all of those abuses, encourage the positive developments.

21:02Isobel Cockerell:For tech founder and immortality influencer Brian Johnson, the crucial thing is that humanity is prepared for the upheaval AI might bring. The only things that are more powerful than us are tsunamis and hurricanes and mosquitoes and asteroids. And right now, humans think we are the centre of the universe. But with AI, we're not. Brian Johnson's response to this coming upheaval is to create his own religion, to help humanity navigate the new world. He calls this religion, don't die. I'm trying to build the world's next major ideology, the fastest growing in history. So the key thing here is like, how do you create structure so that humans have a foundation to be like, you know what?

21:53Things are changing. It is scary. and you know what? We can do this. So that's what I'm trying to do.

22:03Here in Rome, a Vatican-linked startup has diagnosed a similar problem to Brian Johnson, but it's offering a very different solution. Rather than trying to build a new religion, these tech builders are trying to make sure the old religion can still reach its congregation. They're building a Catholic AI platform. This is where we're most of the scanning. Predominantly right now we're working with the Oriental and Gregorian libraries. Robot scanners the size of a fridge are using suction and fans to carefully turn the pages of antiquarian books and capture the contents. And so what kind of books are being scanned right now?

22:40These are some old biblical commentaries. This one's from a Jesuit, eh? It's from a Jesuit, I think in the 19th century.