The woman fighting IS in Somalia

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1:07Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

1:27This is The Fifth Floor, at the heart of global storytelling with BBC journalists from all around the world. I'm your host, Farhanak Amidi.

1:44The global activities of the Islamic State Group are now believed to be run from the semi-autonomous region of Puntland in the northeast of Somalia, where IS fighters are entrenched in the caves and harsh mountainous terrain of the area. But many locals there do not support IS and are committed to fighting back against the group. For BBC News Somali, Sahnoun Ahmed spent time embedded with the Pontland Defence Force, one of the groups resisting the militants, and witnessed the operations of their fighters, including some women. When I spoke to Sahnoon, he first began by explaining ISA's impact on the lives of ordinary people in the region.

2:28Sahnun Ahmed:The group has carried out targeted assassinations using hit-and-run tactics. Also, they were carrying out bomb attacks in public places to spread fear among civilians. They have targeted government officials and security forces, which weakened the instability of the region. On top of that, the group has forced local businesses to pay extortion money, generating significant income. According to a report by the U.S. Department of Treasury, IS Somalia collected around 2 million U.S. dollars from local businesses. to comply with that kind of extortion faced severe punishment. In some cases, IS members carried out grenade attacks on their premises, destroying property and forcing closures.

3:29Sahnun Ahmed:This action is not only caused financial losses, but also created a climate of fear. In the Pantlan region that you just mentioned, there's a local group called the Pantlan Defense Force, and they are fighting back against ISIS in the region. One of their members is a woman called Muna Ali Dahir. How common is it for women to join the fight against ISIS? It is uncommon for women to be involved in combat roles in Somalia. The reason is the country is culturally conservative. However, there are few who challenge these norms and pursue careers in the military. Mona is an example. She serves in the Puntlan army and has spent nearly a year on the front line.

4:26Sahnun Ahmed:In the camp we visited, we observed that there were only three other female soldiers present in it, which shows you how rare it is for women to serve in such force in Somalia. And you met her and she talked to you about why she wanted to fight ISIS. What did she tell you? Mona is a mother of eight children. What's motivational for her is she wanted her children to grow in an environment free of eyes and their influence. That's what drives her to continue and keep fighting against these militants. So she was calling her children while she was on the front line. And she was telling me after she ended that call that one of her children was saying to her, Mom, you will win in this battle.

5:23We have a clip of her speaking to you. Let's have a listen.

5:40Sahnun Ahmed:Mona says that she feels ownership of this country and that lifts her up. She says she doesn't allow an inch to anyone. She tells herself that she owns the land.

5:59And that is because a lot of the IS fighters are foreigners, aren't they?

6:04Sahnun Ahmed:Majority of IS fighters are foreigners, according to UN reports and also the local authorities. So most of the army, they feel that there is this kind of foreign power, foreign fighters who are invading the country. There's that sense among the army. And you also spoke to an imam who had been forced from his mosque, actually, by IS. And you asked him a very interesting question. You asked him, what do you think about their faith? Why did you ask him that? Well, Islam is a global religion followed by people of many nations and ethnic backgrounds. However, groups such as Ayas in Somalia impose their own interpretation of Islam, which is not accepted by many Muslims.

6:58Sahnun Ahmed:In most Muslim societies, imams are respected as leaders of prayer and as individuals who are knowledgeable about the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet. When such figures are mistreated in Islamic societies by a group claiming to act in the name of religion, it raises concerns and it leads many to question whether those groups truly represent Islamic values or have the proper understanding even and faith they claim to uphold. And let's have a listen to what the imam said to your question, how he answered to your question.

7:53Sahnun Ahmed:So the imam says their faith does not represent Islam. He says they only wanted power. So he says they came to rule with the barrel of a gun and they are not even knowledgeable in terms of the religion that they claim to uphold. And you also went to spend some time at the front lines with the Puntland Defence Force. What was it like? Yes. In November last year, I traveled to Somalia as Al-Miskat Mountain Range and we embedded with a unit from the army of Somalia's semi-autonomous state of Puntilan, the Puntilan Defence Forces. This force, they have been fighting the Islamic State Group's branch in Somalia for more than a year.

8:44Sahnun Ahmed:I camped with the army in the mountains for five days and I spent another nine days in the region to see up close their story and their struggle. because if you remember, it took a global coalition to defeat the IS in the Middle East. And now it's just those local soldiers with very limited resources fighting the group in Somalia. So the Al-Miscad mountain range is an arid, barren and inhospitable landscape. There is no fun in water. There is no electricity. And they also live in tents. So it's very harsh. environment and experience. They do not have vehicles, there are no roads within the mountain range.

9:33Sahnun Ahmed:They carry their supply, such as the food, ammunition, all those things on the back of camels and donkeys. So you can imagine how harsh the life is within the mountain range. In the mountains, it's very hot during the day. It's around 30 to 35 degrees. And during the night, It is almost freezing. It's very cold. So even using all those, the tent, the sleeping bag and everything that you have won't help you. From 8 a.m. during the morning, it will start becoming hot. And within an hour, you can't stand under the sun. After we returned from the front line, everything was a bit heavy. We were carrying PPE, our bags, our mail, and our equipment, filming kit.

10:30Sahnun Ahmed:And we had to walk one hour and 30 minutes to the camp. And it was really, really tough for us. So one of the commanders of the army lent us their camel. He saw that we were struggling carrying all those equipment in our bag. So it was interesting. him. All our BBEs were on the back of the camel and we were walking freely behind that camel. You met one of these fighters. He was a man in his 70s. What did he tell you? Tell us his story. Yes, I think it was the second day of our time embedded with the army when I met him on the way to the area where troops were preparing to launch an attack on a cave they believed to hold around 50 to 60 IS fighters.

11:25Sahnun Ahmed:So he was one of 15 soldiers who were working with us towards the position. So I asked him about the type of the attack they were planning and he explained that they would begin with mortar fire. He added that he was highly experienced in operating such weapons. He told me that he had previously staffed as the head of artillery for one of the armed rebel groups that fought against the regime of Mohamed Siad Barre, Mohamed Siad Barre who was a dictator who ruled Somalia for more than 20 years. So he was telling me about his experience and how life changed when he joined the army. And he was telling me at the beginning when he was training this rebel group that was fighting against the Somalia dictator, he told me he used to use compass to direct his motor.

12:23Sahnun Ahmed:And now he said he uses his mobile phone, his smartphone. He pulled out his phone out of his pocket and said, you know, it takes this to direct my motor now. And before he said he had to carry a physical compass. So on the front lines, there are no phone signals, although surprisingly the army had a Starlink internet, which they were able to use it from 7pm to 9pm. This veteran soldier didn't get all that news coming out of Ukraine and Russia war. And he was trying to catch up with it. And he was asking me more about what's happening in that part of the world. Majority of the Somali soldiers who joined the army in the 70s and 60s, they were trained by the Russians.

13:22And he was keen to hear

13:26Sahnun Ahmed:the geopolitics and the discussion is going on between the Russians, the Americans and Europe. It was kind of nostalgia for him. Do you think that ISIS will be defeated in the country? ISIS are now surrounded and they have been weakened by the current offensive. I don't think they are a genuine threat currently to Puntland and Somalia in general. But they are a group, you know, claiming that they are fighting for religion. I believe whenever they get a chance, they will rebuild and reestablish their influence. And they will be in that caves waiting for that opportunity. Many thanks to Sahnoun Ahmed from BBC News Somali.

14:16If you're a regular listener to The Fifth Floor, it's great to have you back. If you're just catching the program for the first time, I should let you know that the fifth floor is at the heart of global storytelling on the BBC World Service, bringing you the best stories from BBC journalists from all over the world. And I was fiddling with a shortwave radio and on came, I think it was Deep Purple from the BBC Russian Service legendary DJ Siewenov Garotsov and I was hooked and I was hunting those airways back and forth pretty much any time of the day. Journalists from the BBC's 43 language services are here to help you make sense of the world.

14:58He's caught in a tug of war between uncompromising demands of his Islamist constituency and demands of governing a diverse society. So he's torn between those two tendencies to excite your curiosity. In a simple way, you put a little fragment of the healthy corals into a structure that they call reef star structure, and they plant it on the seabed, and this will grow into a new coral reefs in the next few years. And to get to grips with the facts behind the headlines. Internet was very, very bright and exciting than 30 years ago, 30-some years ago. It was going to be the perfect vehicle of democracy, perfect vehicle of pluralism, where it's decentralized by design, by design.

15:58Nobody can control it. But of course, the governments always find a way, especially with massive resources they have. there are still promises and hopes for the future that there will be less capabilities for governments to restrict people in Iran and any other countries. That last voice you heard was my colleague Hadi Neely of BBC Persian. And right now, I would like to remind you about the work of Hadi and all his colleagues at BBC Persian, which is the Persian language service of the BBC News. And it's used by 24 million people around the world, the majority of them in Iran, despite being blocked and routinely jammed by Iranian authorities.

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18:05Israel is home to around a quarter of a million Iranian Jews who first began arriving in the country in 1948 and then came in bigger numbers following Iran's Islamic Revolution of 1979. Many in the community, including younger generations born in Israel, remain closely connected to their Iranian heritage while embracing both cultures. Singer Liraz Charhi is hugely popular in Israel, Iran and internationally. She's a well-known face in Israel's Iranian Jewish community. The U.S. and Israel's war with Iran, however, has left Iranian Jews in a difficult position, caught between homeland and adopted home.

18:48BBC Arabic's Michael Shubal has been talking to them. Hi, Michael. Great to have you back on the fifth floor. Good to be with you. Thanks for inviting me. So, Michael, just paint a picture of the Iranian Jewish culture and community in Israel for me. I think that one of the most fascinating things we discovered during the research and filming of the piece was the deep cultural connection that the people who left Iran decades ago, in some cases members of the community, were born in Israel. The sort of sense of belonging and love they hold for Iran, for the Persian language and their shared history.

19:26whether it's the music, the food, the crafts, the nature. They have this romantic nostalgia for a country that once existed and they really hope to visit again. Most of them don't go back to Iran, no? No, for Jews that already immigrated to Israel, that's not possible, unfortunately. Like you said, Iran, after Israel is home to the second largest Jewish community in the Middle East. And they have a representative in the Iranian parliament who shortly after Israel and the United States launched a military campaign, they condemned the attacks against the supreme leader and their country. So there's an issue of identity and belonging from both sides.

20:11And I think that for many Jews who immigrated to Israel from Iran in the last few decades, This question of loyalty is a very big one, one that is also being constantly observed by the regime in Tehran. And Michael, is the Iranian Jewish society or community in Israel quite distinct and different from the rest of the Israeli society? So Israel is built on communities of migration since even before its establishment in 1948. Israel was founded by immigrants who came from Europe, later joined by waves of migrants who came from Arab countries and other parts of the Middle East. The Iranians are no different in that sense.

21:00What does strike me again and again is their love to the culture. Some of them came with that culture from Iran, and some of them were born into it here in Israel as a second generation. And Liraz Cherf is a very good example of that, of someone who was born here in Israel, grew up listening to Persian songs, eating Persian food. and she gave us an example of how she used to go to school as a young kid and her sandwiches were so smelly people would ask her the other pupils would ask her what do you have there and she would reply well this is what we cook at home this is what i eat she probably had a kuku sabzi uh sandwich i can totally imagine all the herbs and the fenugreek and everything and people are just like what the hell is that so yeah let's talk about Lira a little bit more I actually have seen her life in London once I don't know if you know but her aunt Shahnaz Tehrani is a very famous old-school Iranian singer and actor from before the revolution how much of the Iranian heritage do you see or do you hear in her music well first of all she sings in Persian and I think that the people she sings to on the Iranian diaspora around the world and people in Iran.

22:33And I think that's one of the things she really takes pride in, the fact that she was able to reach and also cooperate with Iranians who still live in Iran, who still find Iranian culture something to take great pride in. She said that during the 20 years, she's been following closely the female protests in the streets of Tehran and other Iranian cities. And she wanted to bring some sort of inspiration to these women to empower them with her music. Her music is also popular in Israel as well. It is because it has a very contemporary tone. Just this weekend, she released a track with a a very famous and popular Israeli DJ called Genish.

23:22And that obviously appeals to a very young crowd on the dance floor. And tell me a little bit about how Israel's Iranian Jews have been affected by this war. It must be a really challenging and sticky situation to be in. I think that for Israeli Iranians, they're very concerned. I think that for people here, Iranian Jews who live here in Israel, They really want to see a different Iran. They want to see the sort of Iran that they left back in the 60s or 70s, one that had great partnership with Israel. One of the people that we met in the market told us that he was at the international airport in Tehran and he saw the Shah leaving in 79, just before the revolution.

24:13So they feel very close to Iran and they really want to revive this old cooperation that the two countries have. It's sort of one person described it as, you know, the father and the mother that have divorced and they want to bring them back together. Yeah, I'm from Esfahan myself. And Esfahan is one of the places that has one of the largest Jewish communities in Iran. And you always, when you would talk to the Jewish people in Esfahan, they all have family in Israel. And they're all like, yeah, I really want to meet my cousin or see my uncle. But, you know, it's impossible. And it's just so sad to see all of that.

25:02So we actually visited the synagogue in Jerusalem. And one of the men who I met there and interviewed is also from Isfahan. And I can tell you what he told me. In addition to the very fond memories that he has from the days in school and the old neighborhood and the neighbors and the guy at the grocery shop who told them, please don't leave. Why are you going? And this is back in the 60s. This is before the revolution. this person told me that he's willing to give up all the other countries in the world just so he could go back and visit Iran. And this is something I think that many of them feel, you know.

25:45They're happy to give up all the other countries just so they can visit the homeland once again, which is, like we said, impossible at the moment. but they have great hope that it will be possible sometime very soon. A feeling that it, you know, sometimes could be perceived as naive. But yeah, I mean, it's a very emotional, like you said, a very emotional trip for them. What about the larger society in Israel? Do they have empathy and understanding for this unique position that Iranian Israelis are in at the moment, at this moment of war? I think that the main concern is not for the Iranian Israelis because they're considered safe and no one in Israel sees the complex dual identity that they have as an issue of loyalty.

26:40I think that the concern that there is at the moment in Israel is for the Jews who live in Iran. And despite the statements that we've heard from the leaders of the Jewish community in Iran, that they support the current regime and that they denounce the Israeli and American attacks, I think that there is still great concern because in Israel at least, the perception is that the Jews who live in Iran are trying to keep a very low profile. Every person that we spoke to in the last few weeks in regards to this issue did not want to talk about the Jews who live in Iran because they said it might endanger them.

27:23The impression that I got was that they're in a very sensitive situation and anything that will be said about them from here from Israel could put them at risk. Thank you very much, Michael. My pleasure. Many thanks to BBC Arabic's Michael Chauval. That's all we've got time for today. If you want to let us know what you think about the show or you have questions for us, send an email to the5thfloor at bbc.co.uk. We love hearing from you. You can write to us at the5thfloor, all one word, at bbc.co.uk.