War, God and the Islamic Republic

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1:31I'm at a reading in Istanbul of the Shah Namai, or Book of Kings, written a thousand years ago. It's an epic poem of over 50 ,000 verses, laced with tragedy, battles and one's inner struggle. Through it, the Persian poet Fadowsi recounts a legendary history of Iran from the dawn of time to the fall of the Persian Empire in the 7th century.

1:58But it's so much more than just a book of myths and legends. It lies at the heart of Iranian culture, and groups of Iranians gather around the world to read this text aloud.

2:16These days, its themes of nationalism, resistance and freedom resonates strongly with some Iranians who have spent most of this year living through war, repression and economic hardship. It's just one example of Persian poetry that Iranians inside the country tell us they've taken comfort in as hardship and disillusionment around Islam has taken hold.

2:46Many Iranians turn to ancient spiritual texts to find answers to fundamental questions and also to gain inner peace. In recent years, people who have distanced themselves from religion have turned to the works of Rumi and other mystics. However, most of those who are disillusioned with religion show a greater interest in Ferdos' Shahnaumah and contrary to Ferdos' own ideas, they sometimes refer to the Shahnaumah as being in opposition to Islam. In fact, they consider Ferdos' rationalism to be in opposition to superstition. Like many ancient works, the Shahnaumah can be interpreted in different ways.

3:42This is the documentary from the BBC World Service. I'm Emily Wither. In this edition of Heart and Soul, which explores personal approaches to spirituality from around the world, we've been speaking to four Iranians inside Iran about how they've struggled with their relationship with Islam under an increasingly repressive regime and how their personal approaches to faith kept them going during the war and state-imposed dogma.

4:15We've been speaking to a mother and son in the capital, Tehran. She's in her 50s, a housewife, and wears a headscarf. Her son is in his 30s. We're not able to share their names, and their words have been voiced by actors. Because they talk freely, they fear reprisals from the Iranian authorities. Criticising the government can lead to arrest, and talking to foreign media can be considered as helping the enemy.

4:47No rational person supports war. But many people in Iran, after the painful events of the January uprising, saw war as the only way to save Iran from oppressive rulers. In fact, this collective sense of desperation affected me as well, and I too believed that war was the only path to salvation. But after some time, I realized that war would not only fail to bring about the downfall of the Islamic Republic, but it would actually strengthen this oppressive regime and greatly increase the suffering and hardship of the people.

5:28Emily Wither:After the painful events of recent years, I believed that the Islamic Republic would be destroyed or weakened in the war with the United States and Israel. However, after experiencing the war, I realized too that war brings nothing but destruction and increased hardship. this has been one of the hardest years of my life it's been a series of terrifying events the january uprising war economic and social issues all of them extremely distressing to find peace and cope with the situation i have been praying and having private conversations with God. Yeah, this year was one of the hardest years of my life too.

6:20I'm naturally an optimistic person and even in difficult circumstances I've always tried to remain calm and to bring calmness to those around me. But this year was filled with fear, terror, suffering and grief. My wife and I tried to find peace amidst the hardship by spending time with friends and loved ones. Sometimes at gatherings, one of my friends would play music and I would recite poetry. At other times, we would discuss works of art. During the war, I drank alcohol more than before and occasionally I wrote poetry. Sometimes I also turned to meditation and listening to Indian mantras as a source of comfort.

7:19My relationship with Islam has changed significantly over the years. Since childhood, I was interested in spirituality and I began praying even before reaching puberty. I continued praying until my early youth. I was interested in religious rituals, but not anymore. During the month of Muharram, some people organized morning processions, and I used to take part in such gatherings in the past.

7:53Now, I not only see this as spiritually meaningless, but as a form of public disturbance. causing traffic congestion and noise pollution. By my teenage years, I would often discuss religious issues with my father and challenge his beliefs.

8:16Muharram is the first month of the Islamic calendar, during which Shia Muslims commemorate the death of Imam Hussain, the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad, who was killed at the Battle of Kabul. This mother and son come from a religious family. The woman's husband didn't want her working outside the home. And her son says his father never cared about material wealth, believing that sustenance is provided by God. He says because of that, life growing up was tough as the family struggled for money.

8:45Emily Wither:When it comes to religion, I have reminded my children of the point I considered necessary for their upbringing. but I also gave them freedom and avoided forcing them. The main difference between my parenting style and my children upbringing is coercion. Although my own family wasn't strict either, the atmosphere in the family created a kind of compulsion and I didn't have much freedom.

9:19Emily Wither:The religion in Iran has significantly faded in recent years, and the main reason for this has been the decisions and actions of the leaders of the Islamic Republic and their supporters. This is upsetting for me. Throughout history, many governments have appeared religious, but in reality religion has been a means of gaining powers and wealth. Well, even when I had religious inclinations and used to pray, I was not in agreement with the Islamic Republic. At that time, I opposed the Islamic Republic on religious and theological grounds. Because I studied history, the contradiction between my faith and the crimes of the Islamic Republic was, for me, justifiable.

10:12Because throughout the history of Iran and Islam, rulers have often used religion as a cover for their oppression and injustices.

10:25Emily Wither:I'm currently opposed to the Islamic Republic and its actions have no influence on my mind or beliefs. They use Islam to persuade its supporters. I do not consider the leaders to be Muslims because they do not give importance to al-Ahanas, the rights of the people which is highly emphasized in Islam. For me, God is a source of love, peace and light, while the Islamic Republic is a symbol of darkness, violence and oppression. I have accepted the contradiction and I separate Islam from them. When people insult Islamic sacred values because of the oppression of the Islamic Republic, my heart breaks.

11:14Emily Wither:I understand the anger, but I think the leaders are outwardly Muslim. And in the Koran, Satan, Iblis, was among God's close servants and worshipped, but was cast out due to disobedience to divine command. In my view, the leaders are similar in this regard. The woman we've been hearing from was a child in 1979. The strife blew around the city like wildfire. Bonfire barricades were lit, even in the central business and shopping areas. That year, Iranians from all walks of life overthrew the secular Western Bat monarchy, the Shah, replacing it with the world's first modern theocracy. The Islamic Republic of Iran was established under the leadership of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, using Shia Islam as the unifying ideology against tyranny and foreign influence.

12:10The revolution promised Iranians a more just and godly society.

12:17Emily Wither:Before the revolution, many people in Iran were religious and power seekers, used religion as a mask to deceive the public. It is worth sharing a memory from my father-in-law. He was a relatively uneducated but perceptive man. Although he was religious, he used to tell my husband before the revolution, don't make a revolution, you will regret it. The clerics will destroy both your religion and your worldly life. Unfortunately, his prediction came true. Iran's Islamic law was imposed gradually, and by the early 1980s, the new Islamic authorities imposed a mandatory dress code that required all women to wear the hijab.

13:07And as the years passed, many Iranians have come to feel the state has weaponised religion, carrying out repression in the name of God. It's led to many seeking out their own forms of personal spirituality. And studies have shown, including one from the Iranian government that was later leaked in 2024, that while a segment of the population is deeply religious, a large portion of Iranians have grown increasingly secular and support separating religion from state. You're listening to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

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15:23I'm Emily Wither, and for this week's Heart and Soul, we've been speaking to Iranians inside the country about how their faith has helped them through months of war and uncertainty.

15:36At the end of February, the US and Israel launched a joint military operation against Iran, which hit back with missile and drone strikes on Israel, US bases and US-allied Gulf states. Since March, there's been nightly rallies in major squares inside Iran, where Iranians have voiced both support for the government and anger at the war.

16:04However, I've been speaking to some who are opposed to the regime. They've turned away from the Islamic Republic's state-imposed religion, instead finding solace in private prayer, Persian poetry, and more personal forms of spirituality, as they live through a time of war and repression.

16:26Emily Wither:The God I now communicate with in prayer is quite different from the God of my childhood. When I was a child at home or at school, we were constantly reminded of a phrase, fear God. Teachers, especially religious ones, emphasize punishment and hell a lot. And they would repeatedly tell us that if we committed sin, God will burn us in the fire of hell. Over time, I moved away from disbelief. Later, I came to understand that God is love itself, compassion itself, and now I have a more intimate relationship with God and I enjoy praying. I'm also very fond of poetry. I have memorized some poems by Hafiz Saadi and Rumi, and I listen to the work of singers such as Mohammed Reza Shehsharian, and Sharham Nazeri and other performers of classical Iranian music.

17:31Emily Wither:And sometimes in solitude I recite these works and enjoy them. Some people turn to ancient texts to find answers to their questions, while others use texts purely as a psychological refuge. I haven't been praying for years. In fact, my view of the universe has changed significantly compared to the past. Now I even have doubts about the existence of God, but deep within me, I have always felt a great inner light that I would take refuge in. Spirituality, in my view, does not have a fixed form or framework. I fulfill my spiritual needs by reading and writing poetry, listening to music, especially the vocal works of Muhammad Reza Shajarian and reading poets such as Hafez, Khayyam and Rumi.

18:30Let me give you an example from Hafez that has helped me in difficult times. The garden courtyard is full of delight and the company of friends is sweet. Blessed be the season of flowers, for it is the joyful time of wine drinkers.

18:53Emily Wither:Mosques and morning gatherings have turned into places for justifying the crimes of the Islamic Republic. In reality, they no longer have the spiritual atmosphere they used to. They are mostly political. For me, during difficult times, I have been reading certain verses and surah of the Quran to find peace of heart. But I'm mostly speaking with my God in a sincere, personal way. In difficult moments I also hum an old Iranian song

19:35Emily Wither:towards you with a longing for your face.

19:46We spoke to another man in Tehran. He was also brought up in a religious family and these days his faith has drifted to something more personal. He's in his mid-30s and also wished to remain anonymous, fearing the repercussions of talking openly to the media. His answers are voiced by an actor. When we asked about the Islamic Republic justifying repressive actions in the name of God, he recited a young Iranian poet, Saeed Sablam. I have entrusted everything I had to God. Yet the God of the flock is also the God of the wolves. My relationship with Islam has definitely changed. The government and those religious people who use religion merely as a cover for their wrongdoing, or, as the expression goes, to get themselves across the bridge, have turned religion into a tool.

20:44We asked him about his view of the war with Iran and the US and Israel, and how he's coping during such dangerous and unpredictable times. We certainly cannot find anyone who is happy about war, bloodshed, and instability in their country. At least a patriotic person like me is not happy. But given the conditions created by the current government, and how it has pushed people to the brink in every aspect, I also agree with the saying, Death once, mourning once. The only thing that drives me into absolute despair is that after the war ends, the Islamic Republic might not end as well, and may continue its cursed existence.

21:31Personally, these past few years have felt like the final days of a condemned prisoner. One day you hear news of freedom and feel happy, and the next day you find out your execution has been brought forward. This sense of despair, sometimes mixed with false hope, that has gripped me and many like-minded people in recent years is truly indescribable. If it weren't for the presence of many friends and loved ones in these circumstances, I may not even be here to answer your questions.

22:14Like the mother and son we heard from earlier, he too has questioned his faith and at times sought refuge in his own personal interpretation of spirituality. I have a good relationship with God. In a way, I still believe in something that I call God. Maybe someone else, somewhere else, would give it a different name. But I still see traces of a power in my life that is often behind my comprehension. I try not to disrespect the rituals and practices from my childhood too harshly, even if I no longer believe in them the way I once did. During the war, I have taken comfort in, perhaps not a religious kind of faith, but a faith in the love I have for my loved ones, friends and family, and the certainty that there were people who truly and sincerely cared about me.

23:12that kind of faith has given me peace. These days I like learning more about death and even the world after death. It has always been interesting to me. The idea that life would simply end like this feels to me very meaningless. And in general, poetry takes me away from the present. and when I am not in a good emotional state. I choose to read poetry, things like Hafiz, Saadi, Rumi, Shamlow, Safar and others, any good poem really. I find this line particularly helpful in difficult times. Do not be sorrowful. Whatever you lose will return to you in another form. For me, reading poetry is definitely far more valuable than religious gatherings.

24:16But wherever a sense of well-being is found, that place deserves respect. Listen to this line from Hafiz. Everyone seeks the beloved, whether sober or drunk. Every place is the house of love, whether mosque or temple. Iranian poets infused mysticism into their writings, and over time people turned them into a refuge to ease their pain and suffering. Another Iranian we spoke to is in her early 50s. She told us that she's watched Iranian society becoming less religious over the years, herself included. She spoke to us from Mazandran in the north of the country, located along the southern coast of the Caspian Sea.

25:09She started by telling us how she believes the Iranian regime uses religion. Her words are also voiced by an actor. The exploitation of God's name to justify the regime's inhumane and immoral actions has caused me to feel utter disgust toward them and their claimed religion. I think they don't believe in God at all, but are instead followers of Ahreman, the evil spirit or Satan. Other pure-hearted Muslims must come to realize that the actions of these people prove they follow Satan, and they should therefore withdraw their support for them. During the recent war, when I felt moments of despair, to calm me down a little, I would commune with God and pray for the salvation of Iran and the Iranian people from the clutches of the evil spirit Ahreman.