What in the World: Will AI make your degree pointless?

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0:30business needs in one place, saving you time, headaches and serious money. Stop paying for missing pieces. Go to odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com to learn more. Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch.

1:13We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott. So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.

1:27From the BBC World Service, this is the documentary, the home of original storytelling. I'm Hannah Gelbart, and I'm here to tell you about our podcast, What in the World, which helps you make sense of what's happening in the world. For this bonus episode, I've been to University College London to speak to three students about how they think AI is changing their career choices and the value of their degrees. Loads of students are coming out of uni with degrees for jobs that can already be done by AI. They're worried about their degrees losing value and going for entry-level jobs that can be replaced by AI.

2:04But it's not affecting all students. And today I've come to UCL, University College London, to chat to three students about how they feel about AI and what they're doing to AI-proof their degree. I'm Hannah and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service. Zara, do you think your degree is AI proof? Absolutely. I'm feeling quite optimistic. You know, when I originally applied to do a master's in entrepreneurship, I was like, AI was the last of my thoughts when applying. I would say now it's very much moving towards a hybrid model. so I would say that in terms of it being I think there's still a lot of uncertainty in the whole of what's happening so being in the forefront of entrepreneurship and being thrown into the deep end what I love about my college is that that they are constant constantly innovating so I am I'm excited I think I'm in the right place.

3:02As a language student I'd say probably 50-50 the written side of it the translation side of it definitely getting replaced by ai but i think one thing that it will never replace is the ability to orally communicate in person you know if you go up to someone and you have the kind of the the new tech the little earpiece on and it automatically translates you might be able to get your message across but it's never going to have that human connection the emotional connection of shaking someone's hand and introducing yourself and having that linguistic and contextual understanding of their language and culture Ali, what about you?

3:34Is your degree AI proof? Yes, I'm Ali and I did a law degree at KCL and I do think my degree is future proof because law firms are incredibly proactive with future proofing themselves with AI. And legal tech, legal AI is a huge, huge, huge industry that I'm very excited to be able to explore. How is AI impacting your field and the job that you want to go into after uni? So I want to go down the route of law as well, after my languages degree, specifically into sports law. And, you know, I think legal tech is a really interesting emerging industry. I feel like the law industry is generally kind of lagging behind, maybe, in the implementation of these new modern AI technologies, which is good for us starting out in this industry because then we can kind of join it and actually spur it on and be the kind of trailblazers in that sense.

4:24Great. Not a threat, but an opportunity. Exactly. I like that. Yes, I love that. What about you, Ali? I agree with the sentiment, but I actually slightly disagree with how law firms are approaching AI. I do think most of them are actually quite pro-AI in the sense that they have enlisted the help of sort of legal AI tools that are on the market. But I've talked to a lot of law firm seniors, and I think one sentiment that they gave up was that we can treat AI as a junior, like one that can do things really quickly, but is prone to errors. And what is really important is just that we really do have to supervise this error-prone, hallucination-prone junior.

5:02And people are saying that AI will improve, but hallucination is built into what AI is, because it is a guesswork of what the next word is. And so no matter how the technology is improving, because it is AI, there will be hallucinations in that. And so human supervision will always be required. Zara, you're studying entrepreneurship. How is your field being affected by AI? The world of entrepreneurship is so diverse and getting accepted into this degree was you either had to be in a business field for a couple of years or actually have a startup idea. so I think it's affecting it in the best possible way I think we finding such a beautiful a beautiful way of finding the balance between human led and also the balance between how we're going to utilize AI and how we're going to how these two are going to complement each other so it's a bit of a like it is risky it is a bit scary but if we don't dive in as an entrepreneur I think it's I mean being an entrepreneur is brave anyway so I'm kind of just looking at it like let's go So I love this.

6:09High risk, high reward. High risk, high reward. Let's go. There's so much positivity here and maybe I was expecting a bit more anxiety. Are these conversations the same that your friends, people who are studying other subjects and want to go and work in other areas? Or are they a little bit more worried about how AI might affect their fields? I would say a lot of like South Africa, maybe we're a couple of years behind. so yeah I would say there is a lot of uncertainty especially for those parents who want us to go in you know the the traditional route but I think I mean for my future generation for my kiddos I'd be like come my babies let's go do AI but yeah I mean it is a bit of a you know and it is a bit scary let's be honest if we're going to be honest yeah I've actually got some friends that were originally going to go into consulting but um consulting firms such as like kpmg and everything they have been uh they have shrunk um and there has been layoffs and everything and some of them have actually pivoted to law so um i don't know if my persuasion skills are just too good but um you're selling us you're doing a good job yeah i i do think that across a lot of industries there will be a polarization so it will be the most elite firms or most elite companies that will be able to sort of source the best AI technology and to train their people to be able to harness that AI technology and I think unfortunately that that would mean some maybe small medium enterprises or firms might be squeezed out but also if we are looking at AI as empowering a single person maybe that would give sort of empowering sort of individuals to access legal knowledge at a far accessible price.

7:59It's really hard in this kind of discussion to make any kind of sweeping comment across industry because if you're someone who has prospects in the film industry and you're in the visual effects industry, I mean, look out. You're going to have a whole other different conversation to what we're having here. And that relates to a bunch of different industries. And I think, depending on which lens you look at it through, AI can be a real catalyst or a handicap. depending on your perspective. So for me as well, I've had a lot of friends kind of shift into more AI-proof industries, I guess you could say, which tend to be the ones that are a bit more social, personal, where during your job, during a shift or whatever, you would be interacting more with other humans, closing deals, arranging things.

8:47Yeah. I think that tends to be a shift that I'm observing. So I'm actually thinking now, reflecting on your question, with the film industry because I'm also in the film industry. So a year ago, a lot of my team would be like, no, we are not going to use AI in any of our stuff. A year later now, for our next project, you know, they are very much looking into AI for VFX. So yeah, it's either we pivot or we swim or we sink. Yes. And we talked on the podcast about how AI is replacing actors in Chinese micro dramas. It is changing so many parts of the creative industry. I'd like to add on to the sort of people facing aspect in your answer.

9:34Actually, I feel like, especially with law firm applications, when they are being swamped by a lot of applications that are mass produced by AI because that's enabled us to write a lot quicker than what we can normally do, they are definitely more looking onto experience. And what I see from my friends, my cohorts, is that they really value retail experience because that shows that you are able to establish that human connection, you're able to sustain a conversation. And obviously that just goes towards the social aspect of legal work. I'm going to take a quick break and then I'll be back with more of my chat with Omer, Zahra and Ali about how they're adapting their degrees and their futures to AI.

10:25Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad, and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.

10:58So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.

11:09From the BBC World Service, I'm Hannah Gelbart and this is The Documentary. I've been chatting to three students, Omer, Zahra and Ali, about how AI is changing their worlds. So let's hear more from them now. Zara, you said that AI was a bit scary and you guys both agreed with it. What are you scared of when it comes to AI affecting your degree and your future jobs? I mean, gosh, it is scary because I'm a people's person. I want to be chilling with my people, you know, so I'm a little bit scared of that. But that's why I always strive to be a leader. Who is leading AI? Who is creating AI? the leaders that's why I always try and be optimistic about it as opposed to I just feel the fear and do it anyway personally 20 years ago people in my situation sort of a future training solicitor they'd be preparing for actually doing a lot of grunt work and they have told me how much they've learned from sorting through a lot of documents and this is the kind of osmosis that I don't really get to have now.

12:14So I guess my fear is more of, will I be able to grow to the level that I need to be as a senior if I'm not exposed to the same kind of junior work, even though I have the job? So I think that that is the underlying fear. And that's what a lot of law firms are echoing, and they're trying to remedy it with training and sessions. I mean, Udur languages, other languages, is it's a super beneficial course, because not only does it give you linguistic skills, but I think it gives a lot of life skills, in terms of, you know, we have an integrated year abroad. I haven't had the experience yet, but we're going to go and live for a year, a couple of months, in a different country by ourselves, exploring it.

12:58And also, you get a real cultural, contextual understanding of other countries, of other peoples. So, and I think that's invaluable to have in a society. and my fear is that the rise in AI causes a kind of a false, a misconception through the lens of our degree saying, oh, what are you going to use languages for? Everyone can speak, everyone can open deep L.AI or knowing, being in the course itself, that it gives so much more. I do fear that, especially in the UK where there's been a general trend in the reduction of language choices at GCSE and as an A-level, that it's going to also wither away at a degree level which can then have a negative impact overall on the job market.

13:38And with that in mind, what are you guys doing to try to AI-proof yourselves? I mean, I think, and I'm sure you guys will agree, it's all about skills now. If there was, let's say, some utopian database platform where all employers could go on it and everyone had a little profile, attributes, skills, raised it out of 100, I don't necessarily think that they'd look at the degree. I don't think they'd necessarily look at age or where you've come from I think they'd look at the the skills so for me I'm definitely targeting targeting that that's why I've picked up my languages because I want to to become fluent in them also culturally I feel like that will open a lot of doors and beyond that as I've said with the with the legal tech startup idea I'm really trying to harness the power of AI instead of kind of shying away from it because it is the future inevitably in whatever industry any of us go into if we pivot if we change we're going to have to interact with it so might as well use it to to boost our strengths rather than to um have it as a handicap but i think we're all really lucky because we i mean our universities are really proactive in this sense as well that's why the degree does matter so i'm gonna yeah of course of course it's not like it's completely irrelevant but um yeah i think for example also societies like student-led initiatives um kcl i know has a similar similar thing but ucl we have a legal tech society um and that is it was one of the first in the world to start from a uni uh that was student-led and that is really future-proof because it's it's focused on how to implement it into our into our jobs in the future so to have that at a degree level is a really fantastic opportunity and i think i think generally in the education industry um it's becoming aware that this is this is the future and it's making it i think it's pivoting to a curriculum that's going also provide all students with knowledge with a practical theory of how to how to use it so those were some of the kind of fears and anxieties that i think everyone's feeling because there's this like relatively new beast that's coming in and snowboarding and changing everything in our world and with that in mind what advice would you have for uh people who are choosing what to study at uni now and wanting to make themselves as ai proof as possible i would say do anything that is going to provide you with a skill set that's going to be unique, that can't be provided by the AI.

16:03So I think all of us have gained so much from our degrees, different skills and I think university is also just broader and bigger than just the academic side of it. So the life experience that you get, that can never be replaced by any kind of technological tool. So you think it's still worth going to uni and your degree still has value? A million percent a million percent beyond the academic it's uh it's maybe even more important all the other skills that you get yeah i agree and i do think a university degree there is not just a career preparing side of it there really is it's a luxury to have a university degree and to have three years to to think about a subject that you are hopefully passionate about and to think about the different sides of it and have the teachers and textbooks available to you for for questions And so I'd say as to AI proving that, I'd say get into the societies, the skill sets that you acquire is important.

17:02My advice would be to still follow your dreams, follow your passions, but make sure that what you are getting, do your research, of course, but make sure that the subjects that your degree has to offer are complementary. So you're getting that human-led, whatever those elements are, and you're getting the AI tools alongside with it. so that it's a win-win. That's my advice. I'm really grateful for you guys being here today and speaking to me and also the message that you guys gave of hope, actually, because I worried that we might come away from this discussion hearing fear and anxiety that your degrees might not have the value that when you signed up for them and also that the jobs that you might have wanted to go into wouldn't have been available for you.

17:42But actually what I'm hearing is that you all want to work really strongly with AI and are not going to let it replace you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

17:53If you want to watch that episode, you can find it on the BBC World Service YouTube channel. And I've been having a scroll through some of the comments that you guys have been leaving on it. We got one that said, yo, please stop making us panic. I'm a business major. And another that says, ultimately, AI will become the most useful tool, whether you like it or not, just like most people use smartphones today. Thank you so much for your comments. Please do keep them coming. And for more episodes, search for What in the World wherever you get your BBC podcasts. For now, though, thank you so much for listening.

18:25I'm Hannah Gelbart, and it has been great to have you along for this special episode of What in the World, brought to you by the documentary from the BBC World Service.

18:42Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Seriously, every episode I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.

19:15So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.